Wainwright's Celtic Wall Puzzle

Legendary fell walker, Alfred Wainwright, passed through the Yorkshire Dales in the late 1960s, publishing a book - Walks in Limestone Country - in 1970. In Walk 18 of that book he describes a strange feature which he thought was Celtic and at least 2,000 years old.
In this video we set out to find it and work out if he was right or not about its origins.
Will it deserve a place in our new virtual museum? Watch to find out.
#wainwright #alfredwainwright #yorkshiredales #feizor #celtic #celticwall #ironage #bronzeage
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[@philcollinson328]

My bet is that old Chieftain hired the same builder I hired in the 90's to tile the bathroom walls. He did one wall, part of a second wall and promised he'd be back on the Monday to finish off (never to be seen again).

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Another extremely plausible explanation! By Jove, I think that’s it!

[@davidberlanny3308]

You know Phil, I was thinking it was like one of those houses you find in Greece where the ground floor is finished and the upper floor just started, I'm led to believe it's tax dodge. Maybe the Greeks learnt it from the Celts?

[@philcollinson328]

@@davidberlanny3308 Or both knew my said builder from the mid 1990's. A Barrow, a dodgy builder or tax evasion?. What a wonderful conundrum David. You gave me a great chuckle, thank you.

[@philcollinson328]

Being serious however, before my wife elbows me. The one thing it most certainly is not is an ancient sheep windbreaker . I grew up spending most weekends at my farmer Grandparent's home north England. In the northern hemisphere the big threat during lambing season are cold northerlies, north eastern, eastern winds and big storms crashing in from the north west.It's the same for me here now I live in southern Tasmania, but in reverse. We keep a small flock of sheep on acreage within our hobby farm. During inclement weather, the sheep either shelter under the studio built on stilts, covered underneath on three sides, or they gather in the sheds. A linear wall is of very little use to them unless the wind is blowing the right way. I imagine our ancients knew such. If they were going to the effort of looking after their flock, they knew it'd require a cheapo, thin circular enclosure to protect their livestock, rather than a 5 foot thick linear wall.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

@@philcollinson328 that’s really interesting and useful. Thanks Phil. This is one I may well follow up on, I think.

[@AdamMorganIbbotson]

One of my favourite spots! I had to go there 5 times to get a good photo for my book 'Yorkshire's Prehistoric Monuments' (highly recommend - obviously), as the weather was so interchangeable! Great to retrace my steps in this video! I can't remember if you mentioned it in the video, but the same tract of land once featured several more 'walls', which yielded Iron Age graves under them. The same field has an Iron Age settlement and a cave that had bones placed into it. A Celtic sword was also found in the limestone there. I think they represent a localised Iron Age burial tradition.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thanks Adam - lots of really interesting information. I’d be really interested to learn more about the other walks and associated finds. Opinion is quite divided in the video comments about its age and function. I’m going to do a follow up and look at the settlement. Will search up your book. My sense is that you’re right and it’s a very localised tradition.

[@AdamMorganIbbotson]

@@WC21UKProductionsLtd The landscape there is very similar to that of “Brownthwaite Pike” near Kirkby Lonsdale in southeast Cumbria. Home of Casterton Stone Circle (a ring cairn), dozens of round cairns, and many Iron Age settlements. The region has big thick walls like the Celtic Walls, but they’ve long been believed to have functioned as wool drying platforms - not prehistoric monuments. Given that’s its just around the corner from Feizor Thwaite Moor, they’re likely from the same culture (at least of Early Bronze Age date).

[@tooyoungtobeold8756]

Set Feizor's to stun. Excellent video, thank you. Love your style, both sartorial and narrative.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Cheers! Glad you liked it and I’ll borrow that joke when I do a follow up on this!

[@standingbadger]

Fascinating as always. The atmosphere at the tea room was certainly on the verge of spilling over into a palpable pique!

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thank you! Yes, you could feel the tension in the air!

[@andrewlamb8055]

Another good episode Darren! ⚔️👏😎⭐️🙏👁️

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Cheers Andrew. This is a site I’d love to see some excavation at. Its age needs to be ascertained once and for all!

[@bobwightman1054]

As a dry stone waller, a bit of info about them. You'll see two main types of wall: organic and Enclosure Act. The organic were generally done by the farmers when clearing land, they often follow streams or the contours of the land and just tend to be as big as needed to use up the stone - see the consumption walls at Wasdale Head for an extreme example. Enclosure walls were done to contract. They just go straight (or nearly so) ignoring most natural features. They were 9 quarters high (a quarter being a quarter of a yard), 32 inches wide at the base and 12 inches wide at the top with a row of throughs (tie stones) at 20 inches high. The wallers were paid 4d a yard! The stone for the enclosure walls was often "quarried" close to the wall itself but a couple of hundred years later it can take a keen eye to pick them out.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

@@bobwightman1054 thank you Bob, that’s really useful. Having seen the construction type of the Celtic Wall here, have you seen anything similar?

[@seanbrady6731]

I'm looking out for these in future.

[@WildwoodTV]

that wall stood well - them others were'm too thin - very enjoyable to watch, thank you - back from your more recent "Fields of the Dead" video with Mrs WC21 (UK) Productions Ltd

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thanks and yes, one of the compelling things about the Celtic Wall is that it is so completely different to all the field walls round there. As well as the construction, the stones are different too, showing signs of great aged - weathered in situ. One of our subscribers has found another one that I'm going to have a look at soon!

[@WildwoodTV]

@@WC21UKProductionsLtd I shall be watching! (in a nice way) 😂

[@philgreen815]

Very interesting, a truly beautiful area and a refreshing break from the shenanigans and hullabaloo in the cities. Luckily I live in the sleepy village of Patrington in East Yorkshire well away from Elaine's Tea Rooms and such troubles. An intriguing wall ? or monument, as with the rest of the landscape, a bleakness yet beauty that is so fascinating. A few years ago we followed Wainwrights walk, West to East, my signature will be in the log book at the commencement of the walk approx 30 years ago. We found ourselves on Red Pike where I slipped down a slope using my hands to stop from falling further, my left hand was pierced by a sharp piece of flint. Fearing infection I had to abandon my walk, and attended Whitehaven Hospital for suturing of said wound, which I still have the scar. Many thanks for a very pleasant presentation.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thank you Phil and glad you enjoyed it. I’d like to do the Coast to Coast - need to get a bit fitter. It is a bleak, but somehow appealing landscape, and historic remains have fared better!

[@AndyJarman]

Happy days.

[@eddavis1832]

I’m so relieved to see you survived “the troubles” at the infamous Elaine’s Tea Rooms in Feizor. Clearly, a close call! Another excellent and very entertaining adventure video! Thank you for sharing…stay safe…keep rocking the tweed shorts…CHEERS!!! 🍻

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Cheers Ed! It was a close call there!

[@christopherpickles7541]

@@WC21UKProductionsLtd If you hadn't demanded the finest wines available to humanity, and that you wanted them there and you wanted them now, you would have been OK.

[@AndyJarman]

No tie, very poor, hope this isn't the start of a decline.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

@AndyJarman occasionally I go for a cravat, as here!

[@christinesimpkin570]

Thank you for the great video, it was really good to watch as always. Informative and humourous 👌

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thank you Christine - glad you enjoyed it - really interesting site that’s prompted lots of info and ideas.

[@sotony7483]

It's interesting to see when you marked the OS map with the position of the structure that it's not on the absolute crest of the hill, but lower down on the brow of the hill so it appears against the skyline when viewed from the valley below. This is quite common with prehistoric barrows, as the intention was the monument should be visible by people living in the settlement below, presumably as an ever-present memorial to their departed chief.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Cheers. Yes, that was one of the things that sold it to me. It does appear to have been placed to be seen. Really intriguing one this!

[@footshotstube]

thankyou

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

My pleasure!

[@janecapon2337]

What an intriguing place. I agree that it looks more like a funerary cairn on top of a barrow. It’s meant to be seen. It would be rather hopeless as a defensive structure. Thank you for showing it on the map. It’s quite fun finding the places you visit on Google Earth.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

@@janecapon2337 Thanks Jane. It was actually easier to find than I anticipated - not on a path as such, but if you follow the edge of the escarpment you can’t miss it. I didn’t expect to be as convinced as I was!

[@philcollinson328]

Thanks

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Many thanks, Phil!

[@DadgeCity]

Remarkable to have survived undamaged for so many centuries!

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Cheers. Yes an intriguing site this. Those megalithic type stones it’s made of are like nothing else around.

[@jimmycburfield5997]

Interesting stuff. Thanks for taking a look and giving us a useful opinion.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thanks Jimmy - much appreciated. Cheers.

[@michaelpeacock6360]

Loving the shorts Darren...superb

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Cheers! They might be going back in the wardrobe soon - there’s an Autumn chill in the air!

[@chrisbentleywalkingandrambling]

Close call in the village there Darren. I think you are probably right. It is very unique and does stand out. I hope we get more things in the virtual museum. I trust you have a cross-referencing index card system, so things are easily retrievable. Thanks for sharing, Darren. Have a great weekend.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thanks Chris. I’ve just ordered some card index boxes and one of those text tape things - remember those?!

[@chrisbentleywalkingandrambling]

@@WC21UKProductionsLtd the old Dymo machine. No autocorrect there 😂

[@davie941]

hello Darren, another excellent interesting video, i really enjoyed it as always , well done and thank you 😊

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Cheers! An intriguing one!

[@clivewilkinson5394]

I loved this. I think it's a hill fort. The mounds are what's left. The wall set. From the other side of the scar . Shouted out to me hill fort. Your meant to see it. Or a henge hence two walks different ailments

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Cheers Clive and that’s another interesting idea. It’s really got people thinking in the comments. I might do a follow up to present all the different ideas.

[@afvasmr8035]

lol looking forward to seeing that 👍

[@JimBagby74]

I'm an Expert on being an Amateur. My Semi-Educated Amateur-quarian senses are having trouble associating the walls to any era of barrow building. Although the occasional Saxon or Viking barrow, as they did have them here and there, seems most likely because I can't imagine any prehistoric/pre-conquest wall still standing in that exposed place. I want to say Early Medieval but I'm still struggling a bit with all of it to be honest. Anyway, thanks for bringing us some light-hearted fun from what is a troubled place at the moment. All the best,my friend.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thanks Jim - I'm glad you spotted the "being an expert amateur" line! Yes it is a real conundrum and may, of course, be nothing other than a local story. I did go up there thinking possibly Viking, or possibly Medieval, but I just don't know. Whatever it is, someone once went to a lot of effort to build it, and it's undoubtedly been there a long time. It's generated quite a few interesting ideas in the comments and maybe I'll do a follow up at some stage. Cheers very much for the coffees.

[@AndyJarman]

Good to hear BBC sound effects incidental music put to effective and good use.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Cheers! I’m a Radiophonics fan!

[@_Hold_My_Beer_]

The first time I stood in Rome and looked down three roads into the city I had that 'I have been here before' feeling - it was weird the connections some places may have with your 'dna'

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Inexplicable isn’t it? According to my DNA my ancestry goes back to the “Celtic”, so whilst I have no known family connection with this area, who knows with that passage of time….

[@EMOTTYVILLE]

Speight visited the Celtic wall on his rambles and has an illustration on p.109. about 80 years previous to Wainwright's 'discovery'. Interesting the 'Apronful of Stones' name and legend is the same at Kingsdale. Loving the channel, directed here from Pete (Dial) as another local historical site botherer!

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thanks Pete! I don’t have a copy of Speight’s book - would love to obtain one! Someone else in the comments has said it was known as the Celtic Wall in the 1800s, but nothing on the source of that. Yes, the Devil dropped 2 bags of stones on the way to build his bridge. Satan is clumsy, it seems!

[@seanbrady6731]

There's also two shawls of stones on Rombalds Moor (Ilkley Moor)

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

@@seanbrady6731 oh yes, I've seen one of those. That moor is literally covered in prehistory - it must have been heaving with human activity.

[@AndyJarman]

​@@seanbrady6731I trust you wore a hat?

[@jointgib]

really good

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thank you!

[@ringo4419]

Again, brilliant

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Many thanks again, Ringo!

[@atrampinthehills.841]

Most intriguing.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thank you Steve - a real mystery!

[@tweedyoutdoors]

Brilliant, and you make a very compelling case for the Celtic Wall. I'm definitely sold on your argument - there's no way if you were building a mere windbreak you'd make it five feet thick surely? ...but you do understand the risks involved if some "experts" start to take an interest in this site...? Before you know it it will have been attributed a "ritualistic" purpose! I love the WC21 Virtual Museum although I am a bit concerned about the apparent hazards involved. I do hope you managed to get out!

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

@@tweedyoutdoors Thank you! I expected this to be a cynical deconstruction of the burial mound argument, but once I was there I became totally convinced! I’m still in the WC21 Virtual Museum, but the locksmith is on the way. A special virtual museum one. Luckily the builders left some sandwiches! And an iPhone charger.

[@AndyJarman]

​@@WC21UKProductionsLtdoh lord!

[@nhansen197]

When that wall was built it'd likely not be needed as a wind shelter in that much of Britten had yet to be striped of its forests. There is every likelihood that there were plenty of trees about at the time. I recall a Time Team episode where they discovered the remains of something similar and the best they could come up with is that it was a ceremonial structure which separated the mundane world from the supernatural. Edit: Looking at it on Google satellite view it does look like there are enclosure walls nearby that may well be just as substantial. And it lines up with several nearby walls. No, I do not think they are burial mounds and may be little more than all that remains of rubbed out walls. Either way it's impossible to know for sure without a proper survey.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Absolutely, without a survey we won’t know for sure. I have looked at surrounding field walls and they are completely different. Both in terms of stone and construction. Whatever it is, it’s distinct from the field walls that are there today. Thanks for watching and commenting and I will do a follow up on this one day.

[@lindafarnes486]

I hope you can find more out about this. It might be marked on maps if it is an old landmark? If Time Team is still active maybe they could do a 3 day investigation?

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Hi Linda, it’s interesting isn’t it? I checked the old OS maps and nothing. I’m hoping someone might come forward with further info. Definitely an opportunity for Time Team!

[@jacquelinetaylor8683]

Could measuring the lichen living on the stones give you an idea if the age of the stones on the wall predate the enclosure stones. Lichens are some of the oldest living things on earth and grow at a very slow rate.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thank you and what a brilliant idea. I will have to look into that. This site bothers me to know the answer!

[@topgrafter2007]

Over the thousands of miles I hike a year I've seen just about every stone structure you can imagine and I have a passion for old buildings and construction methods. I can see where you are coming from with your ideas regarding the wall but for myself I would think an old sheep beild from before the enclosure act, I've seen hundreds of them over the years and they do come in slightly different styles and sizes etc. my money is on a beild which could be centuries old or millennia old.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thank you. Lots of different ideas coming up in the comments and it looks like I might need to do a follow up at some stage! I did think sheep beild, but at 5 ft. thick and linear, it seems like a lot of effort for that purpose. If you can think of any similar examples in Cumbria/Yorkshire, I’d really like to take a look. Thank you.

[@topgrafter2007]

@@WC21UKProductionsLtd I can't think off top of my head as I see that many I don't photograph them unlike barns and abandoned farms, mines etc. but I have definitely seen thick ones in very exposed areas. They could be built this way to prevent collapse over long periods of time especially if they were built before the enclosure act which standardised dry stone wall construction. Drystone walls require periodic repair and they move over time. If this was built centuries ago it could explain the heavier build. There are medieval dry stone walls in the Wasdale head area in the lake District that are 5-6 ft thick. So I'm guessing it's a possibility that it's eaither the remains of a medieval wall that's been robbed away to make new walls nearby or was a shelter wall of early construction.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

@@topgrafter2007 thank you. I've seen the walls at Wasdale Head. Amazing survivors.

[@pauldavies1710]

I’d have to agree that it is marking a tomb. It feels like a variant on Queen Maeve’s tomb in County Sligo Ireland where a number of such tombs are on the highest point marked by mounds of stones so that people could view them from afar. Think of it like having the biggest showiest gravestone in the cemetery so that you stand out and by putting it on a mountaintop you ensure that you stand out to everyone for miles around.😮

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thanks Paul. I was interested to see how many viewers would see it as that and it seems the majority are, so far. Crying out for some archaeology up there!

[@afvasmr8035]

Captain caveman got me to subscribe and you and your content keeps me coming back for more excellent channel

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thank you very much and glad you’re enjoying! I need to find a way to work Rhubarb and Custard in!

[@Matt.Geevan]

Really interesting and enjoyable ! I like your idea of it being a construction above a barrow - Maybe it could be one of those Moon Tables where at certain times in the Metonic Cylce when the moon never sets, and appears to 'roll' across a man-made construction - more common in Scotland Cheers

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

@@Matt.Geevan thanks Matt - glad you enjoyed it. So many interesting ideas coming up in the comments, like yours. I’ll have to go up there and check whether that happens! Cheers.

[@AndyJarman]

The top of many an exposed peak has a wind shelter. They are generally circular (Glydda Fawr and Glydda Fach and the Carneddi peaks across from Tryfan in Snowdonia have such shelters.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Yes it’s not like those. There are straight wall wind shelters, though. But the construction of this one is different to anything I’ve seen elsewhere.

[@AndyJarman]

​@@WC21UKProductionsLtdoh, hello! Enjoying your back catalogue immensely. Only discovered your work through Paul. Carry on!

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

@@AndyJarman cheers Andy - enjoying your comments.

[@chrisball3778]

I've got no idea whatsoever what that wall is, but I'm sufficiently intrigued that I'd love the area to get a proper archaeological survey.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Cheers Chris. It’s crying out for that, I’d say. There are various mounds up on the tops there that look suspiciously like barrows to me. I think our ancestors were burying their dead up there for a very long time!

[@ThreeOldDudesshow]

"Set Fazor to stun!" First off sorry I'm late. Was out for a sunday constitutional. Secondly I'm impressed you managed to make it to the top of that hill in an ascot tie! I have several but never wear them when physical exertion is anticipated😂 Side note : As a youth I used to volunteer at Kendal Museum last century and helped re-create a mock up of Wainwrights old office. They have old stuff in Yorkshire too! "We're going to bury you under a dome." "Aye well tha'd best put an 'andle on t'top so's they can spot us from t'scar"

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

I imagine that’s exactly what they said! All makes sense now. I’ve never been to Kendal Museum - which is inexplicable - I must go and see Wainwright’s room there!

[@RonSeymour1]

Thank you for showing these close up so that we don't have to. What is your background, if I may ask?

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Hi Ron, thank you - really interesting one this. My career was in business, but my heart was always in history and landscapes. I haven’t been working since March and don’t intend to for at least the next year. I’d like to do something that interests me for the last bit of my working life, if I can. As well as ignoring my interest in history I also ignored my interest in broadcasting. So this channel is very much about me releasing these pent up ambitions!

[@RonSeymour1]

@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Congratulations on taking that step. You would have regretted it if you hadn't. Your posts could be boring but you make them interesting with your quirky humour.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

@RonSeymour1 thanks. I see a lot of history content on KZbin that is dull as dishwater. Interesting subjects, ideas and places rendered boring. I try my best to avoid that. Going by some feedback, I think I have viewers who watch for the scenic views and eccentricity, over the history and I’m totally happy with that.

[@RonSeymour1]

@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Lol. I am here for the full package, but then at 78, I am an old fossil.

[@davidberlanny3308]

Hi Darren, this was a gem, an excellent adventure and an intriguing find. I really enjoy these scrambles out in to the wilderness. Clearly a refuge from the rioting masses down below at Elaines Tea Rooms but what if there was an advance from the Helwith Bridge Inn? ..... well you would simply walk round to the other side of the wall and defend yourself from there, assuming a flock of sheep hadn't already occupied the zone. I'm surprised more weren't built!! I've never picked up a Wainwright book before this one, with it's hand drawn cover looked superb. I wonder how convinced he was of the walls origins? I'll guess that nothing else of could be established from Google earth or lidar? It must have had importance to the builders back then, not an easy task to build one by hand. Well worth getting emotional about, as you stand on the footsteps of the greats and wonder if they really knew what they were talking about!! Looked like autumn is starting to draw in up there, we've noticed the change of the sun's position too, although we're still sweltering down here quite often the first snows arrive in September, not that they stay or settle for more than a couple of hours. All the best!!

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Cheers David! I could see the wall line on LiDAR, but nothing else. It didn’t show any link with the fragment, though. I’ve since established that Wainwright may have been advised locally about the “Celtic Wall”. Yes, Autumn chill has arrived here! His drawings are superb. The books are worth having even if you don’t follow the routes!

[@davidberlanny3308]

​@@WC21UKProductionsLtdCuriosity duly peeked the Wainwright Society sell an updated and revised book for £14.95 and there are plenty of original versions to buy second hand. What version do you have? I'm enticed by the drawings

[@AmblingMan]

I was wondering if the alignment was significant, it sorta-kinda points at Ingleborough, or maybe aligns with the sunrise of a once forgotten wedding aniversary - the builder never to forget that misdemeanor

[@realmyka]

You can clearly see the mound from the aerial view. I wish we could find out who was buried here and what their significance was!

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Yes, I think it’s quite clear from above. Important chieftain? That wall took a lot of effort! Cheers.

[@Kevin-mx1vi]

Interesting. I know of a similarly constructed wall, but it's on a steep hillside overlooking the Calder Valley, some distance south of the Dales. I used to have shooting permission over the land it's on and often wondered why what at first glance appears to be a normal drystone field wall should have been built 5 feet thick when the other walls were of normal thickness.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

That’s really interesting - I’ll pop that on my list to have a look at. They don’t make immediate sense, do they?!

[@Kevin-mx1vi]

@@WC21UKProductionsLtd It's at Heptonstall, near Hebden Bridge. A little lane runs between fields by the western side of the bowling club (where you can park. There's an honesty box) On the left, about 150 yards past the club is a gate. Hop over it and observe the walls that run southward down the slope, fanning out from the top of it.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

@@Kevin-mx1vi cheers Kevin.

[@Kevin-mx1vi]

@@WC21UKProductionsLtd You're welcome. I've taken a look and you can actually see the wall on Google Earth, and that it's substantially thicker than its neighbours.

[@supergran70]

Great Video Darren , I endorse your theory and if you think there were three Barrows altogether, how was the alignment?. Was it aligned similar to Orions Belt similar to the Egyptian Pyramids?.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

@@supergran70 thanks Supergran! That’s a great question, which I’m not sure how to answer. The 2 or 3 barrows were aligned roughly on a north, south axis?

[@jenniferharrison4319]

Very intriguing.🤔 Barrows were often placed in prominent positions. If the wall was made with freshly quarried limestone it would have been white.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Cheers Jennifer and that’s a good point that I hadn’t considered. Even now it’s prominent, imagine if it was gleaming white?

[@diamondseeds2107]

White seems to have been a spiritual colour

[@AndyJarman]

What about it's orientation? Solstice? Direction finder on a route? Dan Browne wouldn't have just walked away like that. We need answers!

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

I’ve had lots of suggestions and ideas on this one. May do a follow up. I think it possibly is a type of burial cairn marker unique to that area. It is on a mound. There are reports of others in the past. The stones are megalithic! Probably on Winter Solstice sunrise, I think.

[@CarolWoosey-ck2rg]

Good that Darren, gives one food for thought- I do think the remnant wall is another barrow - are you going to check out the 9 standards at any point? Take care 🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Morning Carol! Intriguing site - I thought I wouldn’t be convinced, but ended up being convinced! Yes, I will do Nine Standards at some point. I actually get more requests for that than any other place, funnily enough!

[@CarolWoosey-ck2rg]

Saw them originally on Liam Browns coast to coast walk- another Wainwright special - look forward to the next foray into the past ( better than the present) 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

@@CarolWoosey-ck2rg the past is safer - we know what happens next!

[@CarolWoosey-ck2rg]

​@@WC21UKProductionsLtdmate you are not wrong! Wish I had a time machine go back to a time in my life when I felt safe and valued

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

@@CarolWoosey-ck2rg I know that feeling!

[@esoomynona5813]

What you do know for sure, is that you experienced some emotion at that place.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Definitely! Lots of different views about it in the comments, an inspiring place. Thanks for watching.

[@AndyJarman]

Steady on there.

[@MarkDerbyshiremoses]

Are you feeling an emotional connection to the place because your ancestors were there?? (Inherited memory) could be a thing? I've felt a connection to some places in the UK on one visit, like I've been there before, but have not. On doing family research years later I've found say 5-10th generations living and working in that area, hence Inherited Memory. From Google:In psychology, genetic memory is the idea that certain memories can be passed down through genetics and be present at birth even without any sensory experience. The theory is that these memories can become part of the genome over time. However, researchers are still not fully understanding the concept, including how much it actually exists

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

It’s an incredible thing to contemplate, but I did get a strong feeling up there. I know from my DNA analysis that my ancestors go back to the prehistoric period, but I have no known connection with this area. What a strange thing!

[@MarkDerbyshiremoses]

@@WC21UKProductionsLtd you never know

[@martinwall502]

I get that Wainwright thought of it as 'Celtic' back in the day, but hasn't there been any research since into who may actually have been responsible for the construction? Maybe Bronze-Age or older than that?? Anyway, a fascinating and very picturesque place which is entirely new to me ... great episode Darren!

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thanks Martin - yes very nice scenery up there! I could find no evidence of any investigations into this site since Wainwright put pen to paper and that was very much part of the appeal. I love putting the “non-obvious” on KZbin! As other burial sites up on that limestone are definitely Bronze Age, I see no reason why this one couldn’t be. My sense is that this “field of the dead” might be one of those sites that was in use for millennia.

[@AdeptHavelock]

Riots at the tea room and Darren catches Mumbo-Jumbo-pox...what is the world coming to?! Personally, as far as the barrow hypothesis is concerned, I would've thought it would be quite difficult to inter a body where the bedrock is so close to the surface, so I'd be more drawn to the purely-a-monument idea...

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

I know, what’s happening to me?! The barrow - if it is one - is quite shallow and I wondered if that’s why the wall was added as an adornment. Other sites up there have seen the remains quite close to the surface - for the reason you’ve expressed - with earth and stone piled on top. It’s a real mystery.

[@christopherpickles7541]

The puzzle for me is that if it really is 2000 years old, it is remarkably well preserved. I'd expect its preservation to be more like that detached section - and even that would be rather optimistic. Why didn't the builders of the enclosures use it as a quarry? Much of Hadrian's Wall suffered that fate. I've been there, I got a similar feeling to you, I'm a sucker for any Celtic survival into more recent times. My own inclination would be to place it at around 500-600 AD when the surviving Celtic kingdoms of the North were fighting against the incoming Northumbrians, as recorded by the great poet Taliesin. But my considered opinion now, after seeing this, is that it is probably a much more recent structure, made from pre used and thus weathered stone, and given its condition, built after the enclosure walls. Maybe as a rather unconventional shooting butt. But I would be sorry to say goodbye to those Celts! I look forward to your take on the Nine Standards.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thanks Christopher. Yes I think the condition is one of the weaknesses in the argument. I expected to be unconvinced, but something happened to me up there! Whilst in solid condition, the stones look weathered in position, so to speak. I think that, plus the prominent visibility from below and the “feelings” sold it to me. Would be great to do some proper archaeology up there and solve this one, once and for all.

[@PRAR1966]

🙂

[@joed285]

I wonder what is under those mounds ,,has no one ever investigated this ? Darrens Digs perhaps , officially of course.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Hi Joe, nope, no digs whatsoever. A real mystery. I wonder what we'd find? I also wondered, if there is a burial, is it actually under the wall?

[@barryconway]

Excelllent Sunday morning viewing, thank you. But where’s my Danish? Wasn’t one promised? Brave of you to take on Wainwright. Bring on the Wainwright Defenders. Although, to be fair, you did end up sympathising with Alfred the Curmudgeonly’s interpretation. A few notes I made: No mention of “ceremonial purposes”, so think about that for next time, perhaps. Also, I did hear mention of “a kink” which might hint at future content… perhaps in relation to Penny Gent? We’ll see. More mumbo jumbo, but fewer tears I think. Also, where can I get my Wall wall chart?

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Cheers Barry! Sorry about the Danish, I must have been subconsciously blocking out all things Danish on account of the tendency of some antiquarians to scream “Viking” at all things ancient in the Dales! I know that if this new Virtual Museum is going to take off, I’ll need to get some ceremonial stuff in there pretty quickly!

[@andrewrobinson3030]

I think your Barrow idea sounds most likely

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Such an interesting site this one. Needs a small excavation to solve it once and for all.

[@jamesbottomley2596]

The word 'Celtic' is probably wrongly applied, if it's some sort of funerary monument, it's unusual in design for Britain and that tends to argue against it being one, but if it is, it's likely Bronze Age or even earlier and not therefore 'Celtic' in any meaningful sense. However, I suspect it's probably a farm clearance wall from the early middle ages or similar, perhaps a remnant of a protected sheepfold area?

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Cheers. Yes I did wonder if it was Bronze Age - given the other burial cairns close by. I’m currently leaning towards it being a cairn, given insights received in the comments. The arguments for include: reports of others that have been destroyed, the mound and the “megalithic” nature of the stones. An author contacted me to say they’re pretty sure it is part of a localised style of burial. Until someone digs it, we won’t know for sure. I’m pretty sure it’s not a clearance wall. I’ve got some of those in another video and they’re nowhere near as neatly constructed. Thank you and I may do an update on this one somewhere down the line.

[@jamesbottomley2596]

@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Might be worth poking around a bit in the mound to see if it looks like a natural or built feature. As far as I can tell from the limited views in your clip, I would suggest it looks natural.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

@@jamesbottomley2596 cheers James, I did think that and there is limestone in it. However, I understand from other sites, they did pile earth up on the limestone. It makes sense as there's so much of it up there. I understand your doubts and the comments thread is probably split 50/50!

[@andrewdolinskiatcarpathian]

Hi Darren. To me it seems astonishing that Wainwright’s Celtic Wall is not a scheduled monument! What you showed and described does indicate it to be “something special”. Hey ho, we are but armchair amateurs and what do we viewers know. 🥴🤔

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Cheers Andrew. Very interesting response to this one. I’ve since discovered an author who leans towards it being an Iron Age funerary monument, unique to that small area. He found evidence of there having been others discovered there in the past and he agreed with me that the smaller one was a separate monument. I think the thing that tipped it for me was when I viewed it from the other side of the valley, from where it was obviously meant to be seen.

[@diamondseeds2107]

Prayer walls imho

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

@@diamondseeds2107 thank you. Getting some great suggestions. I will have to find out about prayer walls. Cheers!

[@billykershaw2781]

It's a sporting venue, knock the man off the wall....their descendants went into ice cream manufacturing.....

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

That’s it! I see what you did there!

[@billykershaw2781]

@@WC21UKProductionsLtd that was a crap pun, but hey, who's watching!

[@billykershaw2781]

@@WC21UKProductionsLtd I shaved all my hippy hair off on the same day the riots kicked off, the bloke from EDL said he could get me a better deal, they still haven't been round to read my electric meter....

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Maybe he meant Wi-Fi?! EDL sounds a bit like a broadband supplier!

[@billykershaw2781]

@@WC21UKProductionsLtd ha ha ha, I should have stuck with E.On....despite their harassment to fit a new smart meter. Taking the grandkids to Barnard Castle, parking - free, play park by Castle - free, Chips with crispy bits - £3, can't win em all....have good un mate.

[@iainmc9859]

Unconvinced by anything so far. Condition too good for it to be pre-Roman and its the wrong shape for any internal burial cairn gubbins (technical term) that's been eroded out that I've ever seen; although I agree that it's a barrow beneath it. Wrong shape for a bield (sheep shelter). Interesting that its wide enough to walk along the top of though, I think that may be the key here, but don't know what it's the key to. Something to do with medieval sheep management maybe or as far as they got on building the northern section on HS2 before they just decided to spend the money on the south ....

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

It’s a really interesting one this. Adam Morgan Ibbotson has a section on it in his book and joined in the comments in this thread. He says there were reports of others in this small area and thinks they could be a confined localised style of cairn adornment. I went up there expecting to come back thinking it was a bield, but I didn’t. The stonework is completely different to any other structures around it and the view of it across the valley was significant too. Totally understand your reservations. I waiver on the Celtic Wall.

[@paulwood7798]

Came back to see if you had replied to my comment and my comment is gone. Any reason why young man.🤔

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

No idea, Paul. When did you post?

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Just checked and it hasn’t been held for review.

[@paulwood7798]

Check Upper Wharfdale Research Group video on North Craven for an idea to this site maybe. Its all I posted.​@WC21UKProductionsLtd

[@paulwood7798]

Upper Wharfdale Heritage Group sorry

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

@ Hi Paul, in the KZbin Studio it’s showing no comments awaiting a response and nothing as held for review. I do find sometimes, and others have had the same experience, that my comments disappear. It’s really annoying!

[@davewatson309]

I dont think he discovered it, it was well known. Have a look at the defences above Malham cove! Cumbrian

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Yes, on checking, it does read that he was told that name. Didn’t know about defences at Malham Cove! Will check!

[@davidrowley-ic6dx]

What a conundrum you present us with …. As a defensive structure … it’s rubbish … it would need something one side or other of use to those on the other side … and more to the point … it’s hardly an overbearing challenge to walk around. As an animal shelter … it’s rubbish … only any good when the wind blows in one of 2 directions … exemplified by current Google Earth where the sheep have been airbrushed out of the picture. I have to say … try as I might to challenge your hypothesis … it seems as good as any. As suggested in some of the comments … it could be worth looking into a seasonal alignment (the concept of a feature intended to highlight a lunar event is interesting … especially if known to be created elsewhere … we do know that the peoples of the British Isles were remarkably connected in Neolithic times). I am actually very drawn to the land a couple of hundred yards (sorry … metres) to the west of your wall … the area you mention at the end … it is apparently covered in a whole series of circular features and includes what looks rather like another section of substantial wall, but with an apparent return creating something more conventionally rectilinear an enclosure-like. I presume this is the feature identified as an enclosure on the OS extract you presented. Does this “enclosure” feature look contemporary with Wainwright’s Wall ?? … or is it clearly a more typically modern animal compound?? Unless some cantankerous antiquarian is prepared to dismantle the wall and seek some form of dating evidence from beneath, we shall probably never know the true age or purpose of your wall … sorry … Wainwright’s Wall. However, with due consideration to the apparent quantity of features in the immediate surrounding landscape, it is difficult to see the wall as disconnected from that ancient landscape. I have to agree with you that the stones have the look of having weathered in situ over a significantly longer time than is seen in the other commonly found walls of the Napoleonic period.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Thank you and yes, of all the sites I’ve looked at, this one bugs me the most. Something stops me from dismissing this as later. It’s the weathered and distinctive nature of the stone and the effort that’s gone into the construction. A lot of work and a lot of care for a fairly limited sheep shelter. I think it aligns with the Winter solstice sunrise or sunset, as do some older (Bronze Age) burial cairns a bit further along that ridge. I’m confident the other wall was never joined to this one. There’s local talk of there having been others up there in the past too. When I get some time, I need to do a comprehensive field survey. It would be good to find the remains of any others for comparison.

[@Nastyswimmer]

Wainwright didn't discover it nor name it - it's been known as The Celtic Wall since at least the late 1800s.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Hi, thanks for that - any further info you have would be gratefully received. Cheers.

[@johnfoster6412]

If you do get crucified you'll be in quite exalted company though!

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

True! That makes it a bit better, I guess?!

[@tuff-duty]

you’re probably right. for all of the reasons you stated ( seen from a distance, on a mound, type of construction, etc.) BUT oh ye of 20th century civilized thinking, it is only conjecture. too many generations have lived and died, there are explanations that we cannot know about (and not “mumbo jumbo “). your evidence is circumstantial …

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Of all the sites I looked at last year, this is the one I'd like to crack! Yes, it's all conjecture and take a look at the comments on this video for a huge variety in speculation. Reality is, we'll never get to the bottom of it without a professional dig, but oh those stones are old! Cheers.

[@David_Avidmind]

You are totally wrong about the wall. I can clear up the mystery. It is a project I started but never got around to finishing. I said I would finish it, and I shall. There is zero reason to remind me every few hundred years.

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

Oh, so that settles it! It was fun whilst it lasted!