Wales train crash new evidence & what is going on at Northern Rail? | Ep 58

[@knackeredrovers]

There is little scarier, as a driver, than the realisation that lack of adhesion has rendered the emergency brake ineffective and that, to all intents and purposes, you’re sat in the crumple zone of a sledge weighing several hundred tons, and the only thing that is going to stop you is either gravity or an immovable object.

[@gdwnet]

Gravity won't stop you.

[@christopherwright1795]

@@gdwnetah !!!! But when the railhead is bad you can use gravity and rolling resistance to help you which means shutting off the power much earlier and coasting using a much lighter brake although it’s no use on a falling gradient , 142’s were the worst type to drive in autumn and on the Cheshire line from picc to Chester you had to use all you’re skills and plan every stop long before , reliance on equipment to assist you isn’t something I do it’s there if all you’re other skills have failed

[@gdwnet]

@@christopherwright1795 Gravity can only help if you're going uphill and even then you're using the brake so friction is doing the work here as is heat.

[@christopherwright1795]

@@gdwnet as I said it’s no use on a falling gradient

[@ChrisExley-sk1fh]

The fact that the 3 step brake does not allow a lighter brake application which could be employed in the strategy of brake earlier and lighter.

[@paulroberts9570]

Many congratulations on the class 66 naming Nigel Harris after your total commitment to railways very much deserved

[@ChrisExley-sk1fh]

Thanks

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks very much Chris - very kind of you indeed.

[@StephenThompson-yl4gj]

Another knowledgeable and informative session. Loved the sludge train loco naming!

[@AtlasBaudelaire]

Super congratulations on the naming! So awesome

[@GreenSignals]

Cheers!

[@stephenkettle7733]

Great work guys 🎉. Keep up the amazing work. Steve (Ute guy).

[@stephenkettle7733]

And of course, congratulations Nigel

[@GreenSignals]

Cheers Steve!

[@Beatlefan67]

The ultimate honour is having a loco named after you. Congratulations!

[@trevormstone]

Great episode as ever! Enjoyed watching from Cuba (still) with my afternoon cerveza 🍺

[@GreenSignals]

Excellent, although an afternoon cerveza and that would be me done for the rest of the day!

[@jamesallardice4645]

Well done Mr Harris, lifetime of railway work and dedication.

[@GreenSignals]

Cheers!

[@allanmorton6022]

Great watch as always. Interesting facts about the Welsh accident once again leading to a different reason behind the crash than initially thought. Great to see the Nigel loco naming, really well deserved and a great accolade from the industry no matter what type of freight its hauling!

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks Allan!

[@chrishall6364]

Many congratulations on the locomotive naming, Nigel; well deserved!

[@GreenSignals]

Cheers!

[@ChrisLeigh-c6b]

Congratulations, Nigel - well deserved. Sorry I wasn't there. I don't get about on my own much these days.

[@peterharris3563]

The last slip coach working on BR was at Bicester North in 1960. One of the original WHR's forerunners intended to use electric traction from the outset and would have used a 3 phase system, which AFAIK would have been the only application of this system on a public railway in the British Isles.

[@anthonypowell5665]

Blame welsh government. Realistic enviromentalists like myself could see this coming. How much pollution we are producing mining coal in Colombia, poland, russia abd Australia then transporting across the world to the uk. Shows why welsh coal is in such demand. Hopefully the vale of neath mine starts up again despite wwlah government trying to stop but were overruled by thw courts as they said welsh government didn't have the authority

[@A-Lovely-Bit-of-Kit]

Glad I'm not the only 'realistic environmentalist' here. Serial tree planter, heritage railway and classic car fan in equal measure. Pity our key decision makers can't take a similarly balanced view.

[@AussiePom]

@@A-Lovely-Bit-of-Kit I keep thinking of Yes Minister with politicians logic, My dog has three legs and my cat has three legs therefore my dog is a cat. Something must be done this is something therefore we must do it.

[@A-Lovely-Bit-of-Kit]

@@AussiePom Sounds about right!

[@cliffpeters3766]

Wow, congratulations on the naming of the locomotive, Nigel. Pulling power!

[@TheDaf95xf]

Thanks for bringing up the issue of northern rail 😢 I now travel from Preston to Manchester and return for work and it’s a nightmare with cancelled trains regularly. The bit I don’t get is how they use short formation on this Manchester Airport Blackpool service. I see lots of times families with suitcases can’t get a seat or even get on the train 🙁 And well deserved naming of a class 66 Nigel 👍🏻 Fantastic pod cast as always Green Signals thanks 🙏

[@djburland]

I was on a Pullman train last week and told we were in the coach used by Queen Elizabeth II . It was a coach built in 1923. It was brilliant!

[@GreenSignals]

Wonderful!

[@Phil-oj5nr]

Congratulations Nigel Harris on the naming of a locomotive in your name. Well deserved! Rail reader from New Zealand.

[@GreenSignals]

Cheers!

[@Hinchmin]

Great podcast this week as always guys and can I just say the Livestream from the conference was fantastic as well. On a personal note Nigel, many congratulations on getting your name enshrined on a locomotive - just need one for your cohort now!! Also, a huge thankyou for having (from someone who worships Big, Red Machines!) that conversation over coffee with Chris Hillyard - I'm pretty sure I still have that copy of Steam Railway magazine up in the loft when the announcement was made for the Duchess to haul the Royal Train with HRH onboard.

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks for such lovely comments!

[@MrDixie951]

Well done on the naming, really pleased for you 😄😄 Thank you for pointing out the contract differences on northern, thats the biggest issue. Northern ran really well before arriva came on the scene, there was a really good working relationship between staff - managers and even thr grumpy unions ( on the west i might add ) and its never recovered from this. Poor middle to high management, wrong working practices being utilised by the company and since we came under the government's umbrella its got even worse

[@JANGLEPOP1]

Sorry to inform you that there are still major problems at Northern with "issue with the train crew" scenario. With 9 cancellations from mid afternoon on the Leeds to Lincoln line alone today. Problems arise when the crews are changed at Sheffield. On the Sheffield to Scarborough route crews are often changed at Doncaster and Hull, so ticket inspections are done by 3 different conductors! Overall this is an appalling service and something has to be done for the sake of passengers who pay for the costly travel.

[@GreenSignals]

There will be. The Driver RDW does not cover conductors in NW and until they have an agreement with RMT, there is still a risk of sever disruption.

[@physiocrat7143]

DLM AG of Winterthur developed a light oil firing system in the 1990s. Ordinary diesel fuel can be used. This gives 20% more power and eliminates wear caused by grit and acid fumes. A surprise finding was that the steam locomotives use less fuel than the diesels doing the same work.

[@GreenSignals]

Interesting.....

[@physiocrat7143]

@GreenSignals 20 new rack and pinion locomotives were built by DLM for mountain railways in Austria and Switzerland in 1993. The Brienz-Rothorn found that they used less fuel than their diesels, and set the diesels aside. A Kriegslok class 52 was also converted to the oil burning system, and fitted with the Lempor exhaust system, leading to a 30% increase in power. The system produces a clean exhaust with no particulates or NOx. DLM has designs for a standard gauge tank locomotive and there also exists a design for a 2-6-4 tank locomotive based on the LMS Fowler type. Unfortunately there have been no takers.

[@Adam-pk2te]

Good show as always! On the coal from Russia part I've heard it said a lot of it comes from Kazakhstan (next to and used to be part of Russia) nowadays I think EWR are considering discontinuous because it's 'cheaper' and thus easier to sell to the car centric psychopaths in treasury. I think the budget needs to be understood in the context of austerity and how we compare as a nominal Social Democracy to European actual Social Democracies, but it was nice to have assurance/confirmation/continuation of TRU and EWR to Cambridge I just have to say, I find it odd to highlight how a TOC is publicly owned when it's something bad (Northern) but not when it's something good (ScotRail East Kilbride) and the point about Nationalisation not being a pancea I think is a complete strawman as I've always understood is a means/beginning not an end in itself

[@cedarcam]

It's sad we no longer mine any coal here and now import inferior coal from Kazakhstan. Some came from Russia which was not as clean as ours but we no longer get that. Locomotives were designed to burn certain coal, Welsh being the best overall and favoured by many owners of traction engines. I have noticed the amount of black smoke now seen on our main line charters so can understand people complaining living near a heritage railway. All the government seem to think about is how green we are in UK closing all our coal mines, but not the overall amount of pollution across the world, not only are we importing inferior coal add to that all the pollution bringing and distributing it and it is many times worse than Welsh coal mined for Welsh steam locomotives.

[@paulnicholson1906]

They should look into importing coal from the USA. We have plenty of coal all different types. You just have to know what you want. Coal here ranges from anthracite in northeast Pennsylvania to lignite in Colorado. In Pennsylvania you have semi-bituminous in the the middle of the state to high volatile bituminous in the western part. I'm sure that coal could be sourced for 500 pounds a ton and plenty of brokers would be very happy to accommodate. We used high volatile bituminous and didn't pay over 100 pounds a ton delivered. Our steam engine is out for inspection at present so we aren't buying any.... Nowadays people complain about everything especially steam trains. It was true back in the day as well that living by a railroad where steam trains are in service is not a good idea. Still probably not a good idea unless you like the smell of coal smoke.....

[@cedarcam]

@@paulnicholson1906 I watch a channel about a coal mines railroad in Pennsylvania that supplies coal for power generation. The neighbouring mine was sending coal here until recently. I guess the coal we are buying is cheaper at £500 a ton than it would be from USA. People are complaining more and more here too meantime we should enjoy our steam trains while we can because I am sure in time they will become museum exhibits. I remember the last days of steam here and things were very different then. Today the amount of coal fired steam is very small in comparison so not a big problem, unless you live right by a loco depot.

[@paulnicholson1906]

@@cedarcam Of course I don't have a handle on what the delivered price would be but it is hard to imagine it not being competitive. I just haven't heard any mention of it being considered. When I was working the company had a plant near the CSX coal export piers in Baltimore. They had literally mountains of coal there all for export. I know a lot of coal goes from the US to China, they use it making steel. A railroad here called the Blue Mountain and Reading in Pennsylvania that runs fan trips with steam but their main business is shipping coal for export.

[@bodger844]

Congrats on the loco naming Nigel and thanks for the Mug guys

[@garthcox4307]

Inoperative sanding equipment on the accident 158 sounds a pretty serious maintenance fail, especially at this time of the year. I'm shocked tbh, it appears grossly negligent and a serious safety lapse.

[@borassictime918]

Another example of nationalisation not being a panacea for shortcomings on the railway.

[@paulnicholson1906]

Agreed that sand would have helped but the fact remains that the westbound train passed a red signal. Although sand certainly would have helped, the train was quite short and light, it is not like it was a 200 car freight train or something.

[@borassictime918]

@@paulnicholson1906 It is curious that it should SPAD and overrun the signal by over half a mile. Even with ‘reportable’ rail conditions I would not expect a two-car 158 travelling at relatively low speed to do that. Probably a Swiss cheese accident. Of course more will come to light.

[@EE12CSVT]

​@@paulnicholson1906It didn't pass a red signal - there aren't any. If you'd read the report you'd see that a full emergency brake application was made. You'd also know that the EVC on board would have intervened if the driver wasn't slowing sufficiently.

[@EE12CSVT]

​@@borassictime918It's quite simple, the railhead was like Teflon for a considerable distance. It's not unknown for eastbound units to reverse down the bank for a second go at it after they slip to a stand.

[@jameswoolcock6302]

Tom Rolt was also a founder of the Vintage Sports Car Club VSCC. He was of course, a prolific writer and his biography of Brunel is considered the defiative work of the great engineer. His biography of George AND Robert Stephenson (one work) is a great understanding of how it all began. He worked at Kerr Stewart & Co , locomotive builders in Stoke-on-Trent in his early days, till their untimely demise.

[@GreenSignals]

Thank you! He was, as they say, a man of many parts.

[@DrFod]

You'd think that a small opencast or drift mine could be kept open to keep the heritage railways supplied.

[@ChangesOneTim]

Had wondered if the indefeasible right of Forest Of Dean natives to extract coal as Freeminers might save the day...but I'm told that Freeminer annual output is less than just the Dean Forest Railway needs!

[@grenfellroad8394]

Congratulations Nigel on the loco naming, great news and very well deserved. 🎉

[@GreenSignals]

Cheers!

[@A-Lovely-Bit-of-Kit]

I think I'm right in saying that road steam has been having issues with coal quality too. Certainly the smoke at some of the steam rallies I've attended recently is totally different from what I remember from childhood.

[@grahampearce8145]

Road steam has had problems with coal all year. It coming from all over the world and it's rubbish. Loads of black smoke and unpredictable how it's going to burn. At some rallies, they hand out cobbles and they can be worse. This is going to be the death nell for steam rallies and heritage railways.

[@DOCTORDROTT]

Coal used now is high tar content and blocks tubes, causing poor steaming and heavy smoke . Polish coal is to blame

[@jamesallardice4645]

I see the Mrk 1s heading down south this week passed me on Tuesday (Crianlarich) wonder if they will return modified next season?

[@8teillumin]

I was on the Snowdonian 2 in September when K1/2 had an issue just south of Rhyd Ddu (injector problems) BUT as we departed Dinas heading to Rhyd Ddu K1 started smoking very badly with clouds of yellow sulfourous smoke. Interestingly James Spooner which was leading the double head wasn’t. Whilst stopped at Rhyd Ddu I did ask one of the crew about the smoke they simply relied “different coal between locos and we aren’t happy with it.” Says a lot about coal quality.

[@kevfrombutterley]

If only there was a more local, better quality supply.

[@8teillumin]

@@kevfrombutterley you know I could have swarn blind that there was a place somewhere in Wales 🤔😣

[@paulroberts9570]

Just wondering if the weekly broadcast has been changed from Thursdays please? Can't find it on utube please advise thanks Paul

[@GreenSignals]

Hi Paul, Not as a rule, no! But because we spent two days in North Wales this week, we were a bit behind and so this week’s show will be out tomorrow!

[@paulroberts9570]

@GreenSignals thank you

[@andrewsimkins8780]

A most enjoyable series. Thank you to the whole team for taking the time to add some facts to the narrative… don’t get me started on Coal. It’s such a short sighted wrong Decision for the UK NOT to retain this capability. And counter productive for the green objective, which there is no real question is the right thing to do… BUT NOT at all costs… I had a few days commenting into Manchester this week. No problems getting into the city, but 2 out of three days my train of choice home was cancelled. So by my experience a 33% cancellation rate over the three days. I don’t feel the need to comment any further… the TR is a classic line. We are so lucky to be able to enjoy it. Such a period piece with an amazing atmosphere, long may it continue… best wishes…

[@robp4682]

Congratulations Nick

[@martinroberts2811]

Great show Ref: Talerddig accident .....my question is what happened the good old fashioned 'trap points' if they had been in place there would not have been an accident ......yes there used to be these years ago

[@keithmatthews1673]

Do we actually know if the train that was supposed to be stopping in the loop actually entered the loop? I dont think I've heard anyone say that. Regarding the crash, I could accept that a driver made a mistake. I could accept that a signal operator made a mistake and I could accept that a train or track system failed. I cannot accept that two trains colliding head on was caused by the lack of a few handfuls of sand. I'm sure that the RAIB know exactly what happened and why but it seems we have to wait to see if they will ever tell us for what whatever reasons, some of which may have legal consequences.

[@EE12CSVT]

​@@keithmatthews1673Yes, 1J75 had entered the loop. It simply slid out the other end, forcing the pointwork through on exit.

[@EE12CSVT]

​@@keithmatthews1673Let's just say that the unit's lack of ability to sand, and why, and when it losf that ability to after its last inspection is a Pandora's box of legal liability.

[@stevenwring7317]

@@EE12CSVT Hi folks, two things here, perhaps getting rid of brake shoes and fitting disc only, may prove not to be not a good idea, and trap/catch points would of protected one of the trains from damage and stopped a head on!, worked on the railways over 36 years and could see this coming!

[@EE12CSVT]

@@stevenwring7317 TfW 158s had wheel tread scrubbers that worked in tandem with the disc brakes but in service proved to be ineffective. Reverting from disc brakes to tread will increase braking distance leading to slower journey times, reduced services and so on and so on. The fitment of traps here and in other locatuons wouldn't be justified under VPF figures as the colossal sums involved would be several orders of magnitude greater than the VPF figure due to the improbably low likelihood of another potential fatal accident following another such slide.

[@RobertBlack-m8u]

Thank you again for another amazing show. your announcement on the passing of Chris Hillyard was very surprised. I am a huge fan of the world train and have quite often wondered what has happened to this very unique service. Does it still run? Is it possible you could share some light on this?? Thanks again for a great show. Keep up the great work guys you put many others including magazine press to shame! And congratulations to Chris Harris it is very humbling seeing such a well renowned Railway reporter/boffin be recognised for the dedication and achievements.

[@GreenSignals]

Yes, the RT does still run. Would be good to do a show on that if we could.....

[@Beatlefan67]

I was on the footplate of a Heritage Railway during the miner's strike. We had Polish coal and it was horrendous. When lighting up, it made us feel horribly sick and gave one a dreadful headache. Daw Mill came on later which was beautiful. Personally, I blame the Welsh for shutting their last pit.

[@ChangesOneTim]

Ffos-y-fran shut after being refused planning permission to expand; in fact they carried on digging without permission after refusal until served with an enforcement notice. I'm aware that the company was no angel and its operations very unpopular with locals.

[@russellbenton2987]

Well done on the naming !

[@marktownend8065]

I wonder if FR/WHR might look (again) at modern oil firing as on NYMR.

[@GreenSignals]

It's an interesting question and one we will put to the WHR / FR

[@trevormstone]

I was thinking the same. I remember the FR being oil fired when i visited as a young lad in the late 70s. Not sure of the economics of it, but various oils are available. Some with a greenish hint. Don't let me wander into the abilities of oil to produce very black smoke if turned up too high. Nigel has ticked me off previously for me commenting positively on photos taken of oil fired steam in Cuba in the 90s 😂

[@MervynPartin]

Congratulations, Nigel- A well deserved loco naming. As for the budget, I know that tax rises were inevitable, but the increase in employer's National Insurance has ignored one of the worst mistakes made by James Callaghan as Chancellor (I met him once!). The Selective Employment Tax (SET) was introduced so that firms involved in exports would be exempt, but non-exporters would have to pay it. The intention was to boost export manufacturing but that failed miserably and led to increased unemployment, and thus less tax income.

[@paulbowler2760]

Reference the trick quiz question: The train which runs from Flinders Street to Belgrave (via Ringwood) passes through Richmond,, Burnley, Camberwell, Canterbury, Chatham, Box Hill, Blackburn and Bayswater!

[@deletedfromsociety]

Currently, I believe that the WHR gets it’s coal from Poland. It is interesting to hear that complaints have only just started not that long after the last stock of Welsh coal have been used up.

[@JohnKeeble-kg1wu]

Congratulations Nigel

[@GreenSignals]

Cheers!

[@Richardhill1978]

Great to see the Nigel Harris hope it’s green signals all the way and I’ll definitely keep an eye out on the depot at toton

[@pg282005]

Congratulations Nigel on the loco naming 🙂

[@railenthusiast88]

Great video. Regarding the WHR worth remembering the beyer garratts were oil fired back in 1997 but were converted to coal firing some years ago.

[@ceanothus_bluemoon]

I just find it so annoying and frustrating, that this country, having invented trains/engines/railways and had a couple of hundred years practice at it all, so many other countries do it all so much better. It's shaming. When you buy a ticket on a plane, you get a seat, why should it be different on a train. Clean, efficient, frequent, safe, cheap, comfortable. How can this beyond those in charge? Shareholders always win, passengers always lose and it's what's wrong with the way politics and business is run. If those in charge cannot manage to think for themselves and find solutions, look at other countries where the railways work, and copy them. Did a youtube virtual trip on the Talylln last week and the engines, carriages and views are just wonderful. Another good show and congrats to Mr.H on the naming!

[@jonkess2768]

One Thing I might add about the seat thing coming from a German. The big advantage rail has over airplanes is flexibility. I can buy a ticket and then use any train whenether in want. Oh something came up I just hop onto the next train not possible with airplanes. The only way you can make sure you get a seat in a train anywhere and whenether you have to have a reservation system for every train and not allow passengers without reservation to get into the train. That destroys all flexibillity of rail tickets and destroys the advantage over planes. I for example pay 49 euros per month and I can use every commuter train (RE/RB/S/IRE etc.) in the country whenether I want. It does not matter which company operates them!

[@ceanothus_bluemoon]

@@jonkess2768 Good point, but considering that in the UK it's hugely cheaper to fly if you want/need to just hop on a train at short notice in so many cases, or if you can get slightly cheaper off-peak fares, it may include multiple changes of train. Trains here are far too overcrowded at busy times, and I'd love to know why extra carriages are not available to meet demand. Your 49E/month on any service sounds a pretty good deal!

[@jonkess2768]

The price will go up next year though it's basically a remnant of the pandemic where you could get this ticket for 9 euros in 2022. Do you know Sylt? It's a very expensive German island where a lot of posh people are on holiday. In 2022 some punks ran over the island with that cheap 9 euro ticket it was utter chaos. I agree that if trains are overcrowded all the time trains should be longer and or more frequent. But none of that secures that you get a seat it just increases the chance. Before 2022 the only monthly tickets you could get for commuter trains (there is a monthly ticket for all trains including IC/ICE but that costs 4550 annual so I don't count that lol) were tickets from VRR/VRS and so on those were basically areas all around the country where an entity or transport association similar to the situation in London for example would commission train traffic by contracting it out. Sometimes they even lease the trains to those companies. For example National Express got the contract for the RE7/RB48 in 2015 from DB Regio. But ticketing and all that is handled by the VRR entity. But what all of that meant was most tickets you could buy were limited to the area of one of those areas. Let's say you lived on the border of one of those you sometimes needed 2 different monthly tickets for both areas to get across into the other one. Which could cost over 200 euros the largest VRR monthly ticket did cost about 130 euros alone. Now you get 20 times the area with one ticket and you don't have to check which transport association is in charge because it does not matter with the new ticket.

[@jonkess2768]

One thing I might add as you have those contracts too. Here contracts include operating a very specific operating pattern with very specific goals of capacity. Stations and infrastructure never change operator though they always stay in the hands of DB Netze/DB Infrago. Also Transport associations demand fines from there contractors if they don't hit there targets. That's why I as a signalman have to make sure to state a reason for every delay to make sure the right association has to pay the fine. Either we as DB Infrago or the train company when the driver for example created the delay.

[@jonkess2768]

I just looked it up the new price for the ticket is 58 euros monthly still a good deal compared to pre 2022.

[@RobertDaveyD1022]

Another great show

[@master21mark]

Congratulations on the naming Nigel. On the budget topic, I feel many people are missing the purpose of the employers national insurance increase. It's intended to do much of what is described here, making it more difficult for employers to create more roles, but I think quite a few commenters miss why - that being to incentivize investment in productivity improvements through automation - something the UK has woefully failed to deliver since the pandemic. I am very much taking a wait and see approach to review it's effectiveness.

[@GreenSignals]

You may well be correct - but I suspect it's more to do with raising revenues rather than any grand automation plan. That would suggest a level of forward planning and strategic thinking that is rarely seen around budgets. But as you say, let's wait and see what happens!

[@chriswade7470]

A few years ago I asked one of the drivers at The Cleethorpes Coast Light Railway where they sourced their coal from now that coal production in the U.K. had stopped and was told Poland. I noticed it didn’t smell the same as Yorkshire Brights. The coal from Poland is probably Brown Coal which is Lignite ( Yorkshire Brights was basically Anthracite) I’m an ex BR conductor, in my day Sundays weren’t part of the working week, you had booked Sundays which were paid at an enhanced rate, You were expected to work them, but if for some reason you couldn’t ie annual leave they became spare Sundays and could be given to another conductor, assuming they could do the job and have sufficient rest between it and their booked Monday turn.

[@stanley3647]

Only exported coal from Poland is not brown, but black. Not anthracite, but still black coal. Brown coal is used in Poland only locally (power plant is build in close distance to mine) and never was exported... It is to cheap to make this economically reasonable. Anthracite mines was shut in Poland few decades ago because was too dangerous to operate. Still black coal mines are in operation.

[@roundhouses]

Congrats re the loco naming. One of our friends had a loco named after him (Southern class 73) but unfortunately he wasnt around when it was named so even better that you are and hopefully for a long time.

[@anthonysmith3015]

I can't find any mention of how the two drivers fared in the Welsh head-on crash . . . . . . ?

[@Colonel_Blimp]

Blocked sand pipes…just shows that whatever fancy kit you’ve got you still have to look after the basics.. (retired Kiwirail driver.)

[@macstar2010]

The sanding equipment should be tested upon prep in the depot. A test button is present to check if the air blowing out the sand is operating correctly. The pipe of course couldve been blocked between the last test and the incident, that needs to be investigated.

[@EdgyNumber1]

Class 66... an amazing vocal beast... just like the fella whose nameplate now adorns one. CONGRATULATIONS NIGEL!!! 🏆

[@GreenSignals]

Wonderful. Nigel will be thrilled to be described as such! (I think)

[@Thunderer0872]

I know we don't mine coal here in the UK but I as I understand it the level of coal still in seams that were not finished could supply the railways for another 300 years at the 1970s usage levels. I know it has environmental issues and cost but there are closed collieries that still have workable faces of Deep Welsh Coal that could be used again for a long time for the preserved steam usage but I expect that it's banned or has extreme costs the prevent its use?

[@jimmaggs8183]

We do still mine coal at Aberpergwm Colliery, Glynneath, South Wales. It's Anthracite for the domestic market, as well as Water filtration & battery production, amongst other things.

[@pauljohnson7171]

​​@@jimmaggs8183this proves the point that we don't just use coal and oil for burning. It's not pushed that we use the chemicals in them for many other things. Even an EV needs lubricants not to mention plastics and even the bitumen on the road.

[@welshpete12]

I wonder why the train kept moving when he applied full brake ?

[@christofsmanlib1385]

Regarding your article about coal, anybody in the steam industry may well know this, but you might be pleased to know Russian coal seems to be scarce, but there has been imported coal into the UK from Kazakhstan, which hasn't proven to be the best, burns too hot and too quick. More recent import into the UK being from Venezuela, going to be very interesting to see if this is much better for all our heritage steam engines 👌🙂

[@keithsyers5833]

Can I have the raib report. I think there's more to it. If the sanders were tested and failed the driver shouldn't have taken the unit into service. The wsp does not work when the speedo reads 0mph when breaking. The sanders only work with the speed controller in notch 1 or higher. And you only get a 10 second shot of sand. If you need more take your finger off the button and press again. If you need any further information please let me know

[@GreenSignals]

It is a statement, not a report (they will publish a report in due course) and is available via the RAIB website - statement made on 5th November.

[@julianroberts8760]

Next time you're in Wales you must ride the Bala Lake Railway!

[@GreenSignals]

Funny you should say that... we're taking a trip there very soon indeed! Watch this space.

[@dyffrynardudwy9729]

Re-Talerddig: I still can't see how if the west-bound train entered the passing loop it was able to leave and re-join the main track. Presumably once it entered the points at each end would be set so the single main track was open. In which case the still moving train must have pushed the west end points aside somehow. Or is it the case that the west-bound train couldn't slow for the switch over and the points stayed open on the main track?

[@EE12CSVT]

1J75 forced its way through the points which were set for 1S71

[@GreenSignals]

It ran through the points - which will have caused a bit of damage as has been reported.

[@stanley3647]

For me Northern should extend some services: First example: Leeds-Sheffield-Nottingham with 2 cars is inadequate for this busy route. What happens with 3 car sets - which was introduced on this route at very beginnig? Lucky for me I've got EMR alternative to Nottingham.

[@andrewcowling5804]

It’s a shame the heritage sector isn’t allowed to gain rights to mine their own coal in Wales. I’m sure we could have a very minor right to pull the tiny amount we need out without pollution affecting the neighbours. And explain to them that the very small quantity we need is so small they wouldn’t notice it

[@rogerphelps9939]

Try the Free miners in the Forestt of Dean. They are small scale operations that could supply heritage railways.

[@jimmaggs8183]

I was on the Isle of Man Railway, recently & they've got the same problem. They are using the same Coal Ovoids, which is normally a manufactured smokeless fuel, with its impurities removed but this was absolutely filthy - a very strong smell of sulphur & thick green & yellow smoke, the like of which, I've never experienced before. My father burns similar coal ( phurnacite) & that's much better. I burn anthracite, which is very clean. I suppose, the Anthracite being mined at Aberpergwm colliery, Glynneath, would not be appropriate - would it burn away the loco fireball?

[@JeanPierre-jb5ln]

Bring back catch points if you can’t adequately maintain the stock e.g. working sand application

[@GreenSignals]

Catch points were designed for unfitted freight trains on gradients. Rendered largely obsolete by continuous air brakes. Never used for passenger trains unless I am mistaken.

[@JeanPierre-jb5ln]

@ I beg to differ. Network Rail’s web site under Trap points or Catch points confirms “ T or Catch points are a type of switch added at specific locations to prevent unauthorised trains moving onto the mainline from sidings or branch lines. Trap points are designed to divert a train away from the main line and into a mound of sand, gravel or a safety siding. The collision being discussed resulted in one death and numerous injuries. IMHO as retired railway professional responsible for track and signal installations, Network Rail have ignored their own standards which make no difference between passenger or freight. The incident was a classic occurrence of “ an unauthorised train moving on to the mainline from a siding. Had the route been equipped with visible signalling the train exiting the siding would have SPAD ed a red. Question. Was the turnout at west end of this siding positioned in favour of the train exiting into the path of the eastbound ? John

[@davidyork4898]

@@JeanPierre-jb5ln on steep gradients catch points were also added in case of unffitted trains breaking away and running back dowm the hill,the brake force of the brake van being too low to stop a runnaway,

[@oninbridders]

27:32 if the UK was a company, we would have to go bust. I hate to borrow even more money, but it's the only thing we can do because we don't make anything. Putting up Employer NI was a smart move to prevent everyone asking for a pay rise (again) if the gov increased tax for them. Of course in the short term, some, business will pass the increase NI onto the customer, but with hope, this will steady in the medium term.

[@12crepello]

I remember John Coiley being curator of the NRM. He was in that position when a Class 55 was selected for the museum. Purely by coincidence surely that 55002 was selected?? Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry, (KOYLI)! 😊

[@kathandrew5247]

On a recent trip on the WHR from Beddgelert to Caernarfon (which was hugely enjoyable and part of our return journey with luggage to Manchester), the train stopped, frustratingly, at Dinas Junction for the locomotive’s bunker to be replenished with a mechanical shovel. This took a long time and the train, I think, was late arriving at Caernarfon. I believe there was quite a wait for this service to return back to Beddgelert. We, of course, continued our onward journey by bus to Bangor and on by train to Manceinion (Manchester to non-Welsh speakers!). My serious point, however, is that there should have been plenty of time for the train to have continued without the prolonged coaling stop at Dinas Junction on its inward journey and for the loco to run LE to Dinas Junction for its coaling to be done and LE back onto its train ready for its return south! This would also greatly reduce the amount of time the loco stands at Caernarfon upsetting the good folk of Res Segontium.

[@berniethebolt3007]

With regard to the Wales train crash, why didn't the train derail if it overshot the loop? Surely the points were set against it rejoining the single track..

[@GreenSignals]

No, they would have run through but causing some damage

[@1701Wren]

Businesses don't create wealth - people create wealth for the businesses

[@kristinajendesen7111]

I would have done a running brake test prior to entering the loop. I used to get my speed down early with 158/159s in leaf fall and if the wheels picked up I would give it a splash of Step 3 to knock some speed out. Technically you shouldn't do in case it caused flats but I'd rather have flats and know that I was going to stop. I did have a 158 one day that was showing no sign of the sanders working. I reported it to SWT Control and they took it out of service at the Romsey to be on the safe side. It was found out that the sand box had not been topped up. Prior to the automatic sanders we had the 'One shot' emergency sand. I came close to using it one morning after carrying out a running brake test approaching Chard loop then faced with a yellow around the bend. Wheels picked up, stopped turning and the speedo went from 85mph to 0 as we were sliding along still at 85. I pressed the EM button, contacted the signalman at Chard and said, 'can you make sure the barriers are down because we're not stopping'. It did eventually bite though, WSP going crazy and I managed to stop short of the red protecting the crossing. Barriers still up though 😡

[@andrewbrown6786]

PDP - the major cause of braking problems! The whole point of a train driver is to understand the conditions of the time and choose how best to work the train to try and keep everything safe. PDP is a ‘driver by numbers’ for Idiots methodology based on technology that is still the same as when introduced in 1970’s and has not been improved a single bit. WSP should’ve been updated to make actions based on ALL the actions of the wheels on a train - not just the axles on each coach

[@jonb3311]

I have a neighbour who is just about the last using coal to heat her house in my village. I believe she is a miner's widow and receives free or cheap coal. In the last year of so, she has been burning awful coal, that is smoky and is so acrid, that it brings tears to my eyes. She has told me that nothing else is available, and it is proving to be colder burning than her previous supply, in her words "crap". I can understand the annoyance of those who are living close to that heritage railway.

[@7APT7]

congratulations on your name on Class 66312 GBrF yay🎉

[@RayESmith-hk4dp]

Congratulations, Nigel Harris, on having a locomotive carrying your name. It would be good to be able to catch a glimpse of it but I am nowhere near a railway on the national network. On a totally different and possibly frivolous note, Richard referred to leverage as 'levverage' using the American pronunciation, This is because Americans refer to a lever as a 'levver'. We don't!!

[@GreenSignals]

Cheers Ray. I confess I too dislike American pronunciations, but on that specific point, leverage of the balance sheet, in nearly 40 years I have never heard it pronounced by a finance person any other way!

[@emchaschloe]

Hi Nigel, finally got a loco named after you. Shame it's a 66 and not a pacific though 😉😉

[@BenRattigan]

They need to join Northern up in North East with Yorkshire. It’s crazy you can’t get a Northern service from Sunderland or down from Tees Valley to York or Leeds.

[@andyknott8148]

Many thanks to Nigel for the Coal explanation. I remember many years ago, talking to the fireman on 60009 about the fact they were using Polish coal. The smell was awful and certainly did not remind me of my childhood, more like the local pub's urinal.

[@ivorbigun8214]

On the budget Labour councils have increased car parking charges in some instances 400% 40p to £2 an hour in some cases And free parking Charges have been imposed. This will impact on working people who park to go to work E.G People who park to commute by train. I would call this a parking tax I noticed they waited till a week after the budget.

[@alejandrayalanbowman367]

The only solution is to go back to British Rail as a nationalised entity when we had railwaymen and not businessmen running things but, at 83, I'm not coming out of retirement.

[@chrisgrose5431]

Congratulations Nigel - so it wasn’t a surprise! Is there a nameplate both sides?

[@andrewcowling5804]

Maybe his wife could be on the other side

[@GreenSignals]

Indeed there is - both sides.

[@andrewcowling5804]

Congratulations Nigel. I saw the little nameplate behind you before your announcement. I hadn’t seen any social media posts. So I did wonder. Are you planning on pulling any Tesco trains. After all. Every little helps

[@GreenSignals]

Very good! I believe one of Nigel's first workings was a sludge train from North Walsham though.......!

[@RobertDaveyD1022]

Congratulations Nigel on the naming of your class 66.

[@planestrainsandautomobiles26]

I just want to be able to retire as soon as possible so I can spend more time firing and driving engines! Once a month isn't enough

[@andrewcowling5804]

Who is Steph

[@GreenSignals]

Stef is our General Manager at Green Signals. She is the reason anything works at all. She appears on our Raw & Uncut programmes for Members and from time to time on the main show. As you can prlbably tell, we think she is absolutely awesome!

[@nigelharris6873]

@@GreenSignals Hear hear to all that!

[@pilkipilki4472]

what a surprise shut the coal mine in wales then buy rubbish from overseas

[@BassandoForte]

All the Nimbys along the Welsh Highland railway who don't like it should move - The railway was there first...

[@AussiePom]

Nigel is right about different types of coal for even in Australia in the state of New South Wales coal from north of Sydney from the Hunter Valley coal fields was known as "dynamite" with high heat and low ash content. Coal from mines west of Sydney was known as "black Jack" which was high in heat but had a high ash content. When China had it's little spat with Australia during Covid and banned the importation of Australian coal the lights in their cities went out for their coal fired power stations had been built to ONLY burn Australian coal and coal comes in two main type thermal and metallurgical and you can't burn the latter in loco fire boxes. But all coal will produce rolling clouds of thick acrid black smoke if fired incorrectly which maybe what's happening at the Welsh Highland. Just because you've been using Welsh Coal doesn't mean that using coal from somewhere else can be fired the same way. The technique is going be different.

[@jenniferhoughton6837]

Ground zero of Railway Preservation? That depends on the context. Not that i have anything but love for the TR, but there were those two volunteer run preserved electric railways in Maine and Connecticut, USA in the 1930s/40s - The Atlantic Shore Line Railway (now called the Seashore Trolley Museum) and the Branford Electric Railway (now called The Shore Line Trolley Museum). They were both cited by Rolt as proof the heritage railway concept could work, albeit there are technical differences. Closer to home the Tramway Museum Society bought Southampton #45 in August 1948 (the genesis of the Crich Tramway Museum) and the Stephenson Locomotive Society bought Gladstone in 1928. The first ever steam vehicle preservationist (indeed first self propelled vehicle) was believe it or not, was a certain Napoleon Bonapart who by emperor's decree saved Cugnot's "Fardier à vapeur" steam vehicle in 1800.

[@tomslade3365]

Another good one guys and another loco to lookout for ....be good to have a interview with the guys at GBRF .... As for east west rail i suspect the silly idear of discontinuous 25kv is as much to do with the very vocal NIMBs along the rout kicking off they should rejoice its a railway not a 6 lane motorway.....I see it working well in the southwest..to exiter were a flexible bi mode train fleet makes sence . But east west no it destroys the potential as a division rout it makes most fright deisal ...also its some thing to go wrong more moving parts less reliable...and with lots redundent stored EMUs in need of work 25 kv could save money by refurbishing some of the nearly new stock .......people should never entertain or promote bad iders to the genarl public . As PR exercise ! Hopfull experts and stakeholders can kick this nonsense in to touch....but we are back in the Trump-a-vers were any madness is possable !

[@gwrydd]

wait so.. people choose to live near a railway and then complain about trains.. bruh

[@796karen]

Forres station is the ugliest station ever

[@standrewpics]

Train companies profits before safety, many railway disasters and deaths have happened during rail privatisation. Re the latest railway incident and death in Wales . Much better to not run a defective train than have a disaster. Even the minor issue of a trains sanding equipment has contributed to the mid wales railway incident. Probably the only negative comment. But Rail Privatisation has been one big disaster for Britain. BR had issues but not so many disasters, and deaths. In the scale of things being a national company. BR was successful in the early 1990s , and was a very sound business, making profits for the tax payer . Many many millions of tax payers money has had to go to railway companies since rail privatisation. Plus HS2 I am not going there . They should have only privatised the Rail Freight industry to help create more competition, to get freight off the roads . Having had over 22 years in the industry. Good old Scotland , that’s why I moved to Scotland. Good stories , keep up the good work Nigel and Richard . Many years on the railway I regard GBRF one of the best companies, they helped me many times managing engineering works .

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks, though worth pointing out TfW Ltd is a publicly owned company (i.e. a subsidiary of Transport for Wales and in effect owned by the Welsh Government) and has been since 2021.

[@TheHoveHeretic]

Re: Budget. Either one compares UKPlc in toto with a company, or one discusses those company intersts making up our economy. Switching between the two really cannot serve both arguments pro and con. Trouble with governments .... all of 'em .... is they don't just decide where the goalposts are, they define what the goalposts are! It's a tad unfair too (and I'm as guilty of this as anyone) to take selective or zero account of international forces outside the control of any one nation .... or to continue milking 'em LONG after any justification for doing so has crumbled to dust. I WAS tempted to add '"just look at the bobawful mess an administration whose members DID have experience of running a company (e.g. Shapps ... under any of several names) made of their innings" .... said almighty messes made which (and it gives me no pleasure to say so) rather reflective of the mediocrity of too much UK business management. I suppose the really good managers are too busy managing goodly, which doesn't necessarily translate into management of a national economy (where anyway, all policy is translated into action by the Civil Service). Come to think of it, wasn't one such experienced titan of industry a chap called Richard Beeching? ... just saying! Talyllyn nationalisation: Not certain about the 1947 Act, which (and please correct me if I'm wrong) added not a single yard on hitherto independent narrow gauge to the nationalised network, but the 1921 (grouping) Act specifically applied only to standard gauge. Such agreements as affected NG lines came under the heading of normal commerial activities. The Lynton & Barnstaple were in discussion with the LSW well before the Act passed, the Welshpool was an odd case where the Cambrian's interests were operational, not proprietorial, meaning the GW needed additional parliamentary authority to absorb the line and the Corris didn't come under GW ownership until a deal with Imperial Tramways (the previous owner) was struck. The Ffestiniog (which, following some old boy network shenanigans) came under government control in WWI), apparently specifically excluded from grouping, presumably on the grounds that GW and LMS companies had competing interests in slate traffic, possibly because HMG got stung for some distinctly non war related bills. The FR later unsuccessfully approaching both mainline compqnies for salvation. (I've often imagined double engines in plain black with 'LMS' on the left hand tank and a five digit number on the right). Incidentally, has anyone ever seen a mention of grouping involving the Campbeltown & Machrihanish?

[@BassandoForte]

Everyone who lives near the Welsh Highland Railway should move then... The railway was there first... I HATE NIMBYS...

[@gbphil]

But isn’t NI for employers the only tax the big boys like Amazon, Starbucks etc can’t avoid. It also covers the people who will actually use the services such as schools, roads, libraries, hospitals etc. 😎😇

[@smudge0161]

Sorry but it do-sent work like that. NI is not ring fenced all taxation goes into one big pot and then gets sliced up by the Government.

[@physiocrat7143]

They pay business rates

[@gbphil]

@ ‘They pay business rates’ which are negotiable and subject to special incentives and economic zones. ‘Do I come to your business park or the one three miles away in the next county, whilst still employing all your city residents?’ 😎😇

[@gbphil]

@@smudge0161 Try reading the post properly! Do you think schools, roads, libraries are controlled by the Department for Health? Smudge by name? 🙈🙉🙊

[@physiocrat7143]

@gbphil The incidence of employees' NI and PAYE Income Tax is on the employer, since they form part of total labour costs, while employers' National insurance is formally payable by employers. The incidence of VAT is also substantially on sellers, since they are obliged to absorb some of it in order to maintain volumes of sales. From that point the taxes are passed backwards onto landlords since they cut directly into rental levels. This has been known since the beginning of the 18th century and is also implicit in Ricardo's Law of Rent. There is a dense fog of confusion on the topic of tax incidence. It gets in the way of rational discussion and sound policy.

[@jimscott7136]

I didn't expect a Tory party political broadcast!

[@poppyland74]

Do we have to sing the praises of the budget then?

[@GreenSignals]

Well that's good, because you didn't get one, merely a comment on the likely effectiveness of this budget. Would have said exactly the same if it had been a Chancellor from any other party.....

[@richardharvey1732]

Hi Green Signals, am I allowed to assume that on the basis of what you tell us this 'accident' was no such thing. It was in fact the direct result of a combination of poor maintenance cost-cutting and bad management. The fact that the railways are the innocent victim of many decades of ideological deprivation because the very idea that public services have to be operated in a many that ensures adequate services regardless of 'cost' is not acceptable in a culture that worships profits above all else is unfortunate but ultimately the fault of an ignorant and uninformed electorate that believes they can just have whatever they want at little or no cost. The question that stands out most for me is whether the total cost of that effective maintenance would have been greater or lesser than the total cost of this crash including the cost to travellers of the suspension of this service?. Now that is off my chest I feel I should apologise to you both for taking advantage of your channel to vent my own frustrations. Cheers, Richard.

[@EE12CSVT]

And how do you know any of that? Do you have access to maintenance records, the exam prep forms, management conversations, internal communications, or have you just made the whole thing uo to be sensationalist?

[@richardharvey1732]

@@EE12CSVT Hi EE12CSVT, thank you for this response the questions you ask are not ones that I can answer entirely, starting at the beginning I do not know 'how' I know things any more than anyone else does indeed I do not have access to any of those records to which you refer but I really doubt that any of them address the issues I raise. The assertion that I have in fact made it all up is actually correct but my intention is not to generate sensations, I do not think that emotions ever contribute anything of value in the public domain. My purpose was solely to offer some realistic explanation to try to account for the sequence of decisions and subsequent events in as simple and logical a manner as I can. The primary assertions I make about the manner of management conduct and ideology are based on my own observations and are therefore somewhat subjective, we all tend to see whatever we are looking for. I will still argue that the underlying principles of the mechanics of financial management are valid and until I am offered or discover some more rational explanation will stay with these concepts as long as they seem to be applicable. The fact that some of the terms and expressions I use can be triggering for some people is not a problem of my creation, I do not intend or impose any value judgements about the behaviour of others, all that interests me is how nfar outcomes deviate from intention and how and why. Cheers, Richard.

[@IainDavies-z2l]

Here we go again, a 50 minute video that could take 3 minutes, as I said in my last comments cut all the waffle and get on with the facts.

[@superted6960]

You could drink a pint of beer in 3 seconds if you really wanted to. Sometimes it's better to sit back, relax and go with the flow 😊

[@smudge0161]

Its to do with the You Tube algorithm. The longer the video the more money You Tube make from adverts and the more promotion they give the video. Creator income is based on number of views so this benefits the creators and encourages them to make longer videos (including a lot of padding). The MacMaster channel has just made a video about this.

[@IainDavies-z2l]

I hate this stupid interview style, if your going to comment on these type of incidents then do it in a documentary style as I said before like "Facinating Horror" channel does.

[@fatwalletboy2]

And that way you get to really enjoy the taste!

[@poppyland74]

I am not sure you have understood what a podcast is. Joe Rogan chats for 3 hours on his. You don't get people saying cut the waffle and give me 5 minutes. Why don't you listen to this on double speed? Or just read the transcript.

[@paulroberts9570]

Thanks

[@GreenSignals]

Many thanks Paul. Much appreciated!

[@lawrence18uk]

I just think we should phase out coal for steam engines. Heresy, I know, but to be honest I've never been in love with them. I'm not sure what else we could use, hydrogen may be, nuclear perhaps, a bit like a nuclear submarine or maybe you could actually run them off electricity a bit like a model railway and do the Steam effects artificially 😮