Wales train crash RAIB investigation initial findings & Euston station progress?

Wales train crash RAIB investigation initial findings & Euston station progress? | Ep 57

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@Goldenoldie49 Ай бұрын

It never ceases to amaze me just how much work the three of you must put in for each episode. You put the majority of tv/radio news/documentaries to shame. Well done.

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Thank you! I confess it is far more work than we thought when we started. But we love it!

@richardhutton2089 Ай бұрын

Hi guys, im an RHTT operator and have been for 3 seasons now. Im working the Inverness/ Perth/ Dundee/ Sterling route. We use a 9L volvo engine that jets water down on to the rail head at 1400 PSI . We have three 17, 000 L water tanks and 2 sandite module s. We are top and tail with two 68s.

@ChrisBrown-w8j Ай бұрын

I am a retired signaller and therefore I have had experience of signalling in the leaf fall season in the east of England. In my time the services were usually 170 or 158 units. If going on duty on a Sunday at certain boxes (I was relief staff at the time) I always took out the appropriate forms for wheel contamination and waited for the first 158 unit to run. Despite 170 units running before the 158 service, the 158 blipping the track circuits was almost a guarantee. Why a reduced rail decontamination service was run on Sunday was always a mystery. Why there was no traps points with sand trap is another mystery which I suspect is a money issue. My thoughts are with the family of the dead and injured. Not forgetting the drivers who faced not being able to stop their trains and avoiding a collision.

@Beatlefan67 Ай бұрын

Indeed - is it Salisbury all over again? An insider told me that the RHTT hadn't gone out that day as it couldn't get any traction. No further comment.

@andrewmerriman7133 Ай бұрын

@@ChrisBrown-w8j The was a Trap point on the right hand loop in the down direction until Radio Signalling came into operation in October 1988. All Trap points were removed from the Cambrian in the months prior to this as points were not worked from Machynlleth Box. I thought at the time that the removal of these would lead to an accident, mind you I had expected it to have happened before now. I was a qualified Movements Inspector in the 1980's - 1990's at that time we even had them on the Narrow Gauge Railway I volunteered on.

@EE12CSVT Ай бұрын

@@Beatlefan67The RHTT had run as scheduled the night before

@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne Ай бұрын

Our laughably 'trusted' national broadcaster, the BBC, gave great prominence to a passenger who was interviewed and claimed the train was going at "40, 50, maybe 60 miles per hour" at the point of collision. I don't expect an apology from either the BBC or the individual concerned.

@christianluts810 Ай бұрын

The same BBC who inadvertently interviewed a Nigerian taxi driver instead of a tech expert? Or even the same BBC who gave a massive amount of air time to Community Religious Leader after Grenfell who turned out to be the local mad woman? You cant even blame it on the "lottery" of interviewing members of the public. Their own staff are a liability in their own right.

@randomguy-tg7ok Ай бұрын

I can't say I remember that. I remember a lot about the collision being 15mph, and I remember something about the death wasn't due to the accident itself, but I don't remember anyone saying anything about the speed being >=40mph.

@beeble2003 Ай бұрын

@@christianluts810 So your problem is accuracy, right? So your "Nigerian taxi driver" couldn't possibly be a Congolese IT worker, could he?

@robertbannocks6750 Ай бұрын

@@beeble2003 really that detracts so little from his good point.

@daffyduk77 Ай бұрын

They might not have too many coherent passengers to speak to, immediately after. And just a 15mph collision would have probably felt so traumatic that to someone who's never been in a train crash, I could forgive them & even the Beeb for the initial hyperbole. There have been a few lower-speed crashes than this one, which resulted in much more death & mayhem, if I recall correctly

@RichardWells1 Ай бұрын

Excellent in-depth news reports covering topics that are really relevant today. Pleasing absence of sensationalism and speculation - but, then, what else would we expect from two seasoned, experienced and knowledgeable rail journalists!

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

I'm flattered richard - but it's Stef and Nigel that are the journalists - I am on an intensive training course! Richard

@RichardWells1 Ай бұрын

@@GreenSignals Ah! But you're asking all the right questions, Richard!

@rossclark9437 Ай бұрын

Thank you for another super episode of GS. It was good to hear a simplisitc explanation to listeners about how contaninated rails can cause very serious traction issues to trains in poor adhesion conditions. Also, kind thanks for the mention regarding the Rail Wellbeing Live item Heather and I have produced.

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

You're incredibly welcome Ross, we wish you all the best with it.

@rossclark9437 Ай бұрын

@GreenSignals Thank you. I will get a link for this video and get it to you all ASAP.

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Thanks Ross. In the meantime, we've put a link to the RWL registration page in the description and on our website for you.

@rossclark9437 Ай бұрын

@@GreenSignals That is really appreciated. Thanks again.

@IBLRG Ай бұрын

Hello from us all here at The Independent Brigg Line Rail Group. With regards to Northern train crew. Our 1 round trip Monday to Friday Brigg Line service is run by Sheffield Traincrew, they are short staffed and we have a situation where a number of high frequency service from Sheffield to other destinations are cancelled to provide, the driver, the guard, or a unit to provide the Brigg Line service. Rabbits are pull out of hats to make our service run on a regular basis by those behind the scenes at the train operator

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Cheers guys. Thanks so much. Really appreciated. Saw your comment about the new winter timetable not having any upgrade fro the Brigg timetable. Fingers crossed that those potential diverted services for TPE can have Brigg and Kirton in Lindsey stops included.

@NewCityMedia Ай бұрын

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that the Press Release about Euston was bizarre. I'm surprised it got through. Their plan, such as it is, doesn't acknowledge that the real problem is at times of disruption, and it's hard to see how their suggestions would help in such a situation, ie when services are not running properly for whatever reason.

@ChrisExley-sk1fh Ай бұрын

Gents due to a new bank app I have been unable to send my cash thanks until now. Once again you make an informative and insightful programme. Well done guys

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Thanks so much Chris. It’s so generous of you and immensely appreciated.

@MichaelStockin Ай бұрын

Thanks

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Thanks very much Michael, very kind of you.

@AlanKirkman-q1h Ай бұрын

Thanks!

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Thanks Alan, that's really kind of you!

@vrillon778 Ай бұрын

Interesting interview with Richard Allen. As regular Chiltern users we always wondered why we could never get a train when there’s a concert on at Wembley. Last train back always really early.

@danwiddon3854 Ай бұрын

The timing and tenses of this highly professional vlog is evident and part of its value. I’m clearly insulated from why anyone foolishly wrote a 5-point plan for Euston, or any other mainline station. It’s great that Rachel Reeves is fully funding HS2 to Euston, but the resources to build it to Manchester and Leeds, plus provide enough capacity on the Victorian network at a compelling price are necessary, a little of which I expect we’ll hear in the next issue.

@Edsbar Ай бұрын

Are there not any catch points to derail a train that fails to stop in the loop? I thought this arrangement was standard on all single track lines or anywhere that bidirectional conflicts could occur.

@andrewmerriman7133 Ай бұрын

The Trap Points on the Cambrian were removed by October 1988 when Radio Signalling replaced Mechanical Signalling. I am fairly certain from memory that Trap Points had been fitted on the right hand Loop (Down Direction from Shrewsbury) in Talerddig well into the 1980's, that line was signaled for both Up and Down Trains where as the Left hand line was only signaled for Down trains. The removal of the Trap Points was due to the fact that in Radio Signalling the points were set for the Left hand line to go into the loop with trains leaving the loop pushing the trailing points over. The points were unlocked for facing moves there were point indicators showing if the points were fully closed or not this arrangement meant that Trap Points had to be removed.

@Edsbar Ай бұрын

@@andrewmerriman7133 Thank you for that explanation. I find it truly mind blowing that there is absolutely nothing mechanical to stop head on conflicts. It is truly surprising that it has taken over three decades for an accident to occur.

@angusswanson5984 Ай бұрын

I do worry about the discontinuous electrification thing. The promise of a new tomorrow providing cover to Treasury not to electrify anything now. Then tomorrow never comes! In the meantime better to call the Chiltern scheme a battery option - as it doesn’t deliver the full benefits of electricity continuously delivered to the traction - lighter trains, simpler trains, less wear and tear on track, cascade rolling stock, electric freight etc. . I would be interested to see a full cost benefit analysis of battery v electrification.

@christopherbaglin4314 Ай бұрын

I'm not in the industry (just an armchair commentator), but your good points aside, wouldn't a near-total electrification with battery backup be viable? It would certainly be a lot cheaper to not have to make structural changes to bridges and tunnels, especially if there was some way of automatically lowering and raising pantographs. I would have thought that the cost benefits would outweigh the relative inefficiency of carrying batteries.

@Carlos-im3hn Ай бұрын

the battery tram-trains just don't have enough stored energy to make the long distances, grades, and if they need to also have toilets becomes another size/weight issue. I am following the battery efforts on MerseyRail, TfW Stadler Citylink Class 398 tram-train, intercity Battery Class 802 tri-mode train, and TfW Stadler Class 756 FLIRT 4-car tri-mode train. Most of the large bi-mode or tri-mode trains are heavier (don't burn off all the fuel weight) and expensive. So far the tri-mode trains seem to provide excellent service at a price. It is fascinating looking at the performance and cost specs ! Generally they say bi-mode is "ok" (OLE/battery), and tri-mode (diesel/OLE/battery) better...the overall costs add up. Maybe it will come down to Chiltern needing tri-mode and extending the A/C kV electrification from the stations a few km to get good station local electric use. A big question is it possible to electrify and battery old trains cost effectively and will the performance be there ? So far the TfW Stadler Class 765 FLIRTs look awesome with 75 mph (121 km/h) maximum speed (but the existing 68's and 168's get up to 100mph). Other versions of the Stadler FLIRTs can get up to 125mph, so there may be capability to speed them up.

@christopherbaglin4314 Ай бұрын

@@Carlos-im3hn I was thinking maybe electrify the majority of the line, excluding under low bridges and problematic tunnels, ie an overhead catenary that is nearly complete, so the batteries would not need to propel the unit very far. In fact, for short sections, the train could just coast as electric trains do under neutral sections which are unpowered.

@paulroberts9570 Ай бұрын

Another very informative eposide looking forward to the south West rail feature on 3rd rail and battery future solutions Thank you

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Yes, did you watch our recent video on this?

@paulroberts9570 Ай бұрын

I watched the introduction not the full interview yet looking forward to it when released @GreenSignals

@paulroberts9570 Ай бұрын

@GreenSignals just watched it now very informative with some good ideas

@iantaf5559 Ай бұрын

Interesting that you mention the East-West Railway which is close to opening. I remember a comment from Chris Green who, as a young BR management trainee was taken to see the then-new Bletchley Flyover. Whilst other trainees were marvelling at this piece of engineering, Mr Green commented that "it doesn't lead to anywhere" suggesting that the route would not be financially viable. How times change..... Looking forward to your interview with him.

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

In fairness to Chris, when he made that comment, he wasn't entirely wrong! he's our guest on the podcast next week - I shall ask him if he's changed his mind.....

@CheshireCars Ай бұрын

I came across your channel only recently. I have to commend you all on a great pod to keep your listeners up to date with all things rail.

@ianeccles111 Ай бұрын

If you noticed most of the rail improvements announced in the budget were already started by the Tories and nearly complete, yet Reeves made it look like it was their policy, which is not true but that's politics.

@jimmillington8299 Ай бұрын

Interesting show, as ever. Three observations: - your deep-dive into ongoing problems at state-run Northern Rail needs to question traincrew sickness rates. If people don't turn up to work, there is nothing even the best management team can do. - Without showing any disrepect to those affected by the Cambrian collision, including 'first responders', why did it take a full week for Network Rail to reopen the line, after a slow speed collision without derailment, between 2 two-car DMUs? BR would have had 'normal working' within a day or two. Meanwhile pax are forced onto roads where they are at far greater accident risk. - Labour's first Budget was really, really poor from a rail perspective. Fuel duty frozen, yet rail fares up 4.6% (in the small print!). And zippo on avoiding the 'mother of all bottlenecks' south of Stafford. So much for ASLEF telling pax to vote Labour to 'save our railways'!

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

I think re the last point Jim, I did at one point expect rather worse news than we got. Expectation management in action I suppose.

@bishwatntl Ай бұрын

As I understand it (and as Richard said), the problem at Euston is when things go wrong, not during normal operations. I would take a lot of convincing that such advance boarding could happen when services are "all over the place". Euston is not alone in struggling when things go wrong - it just seems to have less space for people to reach platforms than is comfortable or safe. I don't see how better collaboration between the operators will help that by much.

@martinploughboy988 Ай бұрын

I commuted through Euston for ~30 years and when things went wrong, with large numbers of people on the concourse not knowing where their train would depart from, platform staff equally in the dark (if not absent), I must agree.

@robertbannocks6750 Ай бұрын

Why not use the Ryanair method and have people turn up 40 mins before departure then once past the gate wait another 30 mins before boarding really commences. Timetable that in and you have the problem solved.

@kevinrayner5812 Ай бұрын

I used Euston daily up until the start of Covid. Well Euston daily except when it was closed and I had to get to Watford on the Met Line. Which strangely was cheaper than going to Watford Junction. I can safely say the mess at Euston WAS NOT due to abnormal operations, it was all the time. A few years earlier they actually put departure boards in the Underground station so it wasn't necessary to go to the main concourse to see that the next train calling at Watford Junction was from platform 8, 10 or 11. But then for what ever reason they stop using it. So why waste money installing the system. So up to the main concourse you have to go to add to the crush. Usually to find that the train was from the suburban platforms. I found it so frustrating that they would never say which platform the Tring, MK or Northamption trains went from 5 minutes of less before departure. Why on Earth not announce which platform the train was departing from and just wait there. The BS excuses you would get from staff when stating the obvious were really quite amazing.

@bishwatntl Ай бұрын

@@kevinrayner5812 That's not good - I used to use Euston daily a long time ago and it was sometimes a gamble whether to turn left for the suburban platforms and risk a Watford train being on a mainline platform or go up the main escalators. Sounds like it's got worse.

@kevinrayner5812 Ай бұрын

@@bishwatntl It got so bad on the main concourse I would go to the suburban platforms anyway and ask there. The train might go from there or I might have to go to another platform.

@JeanPierre-jb5ln Ай бұрын

Did the rail head treatment train treat siding and main track ?

@richardhutton2089 Ай бұрын

Hi Jean , im an operator on the Inverness SCO5 route . It would depend what the tick sheet says . I would assume that if I didn't get done one way it would get done on the return journey. That's what happens up here in Scotland.

@EE12CSVT Ай бұрын

The RHTT sprayed both lines in the loop, the Up and Down

@MrAvant123 Ай бұрын

Rail travel is now a treat ! Train drivers get paid like premier league footballers and tickets have to be budgeted for in advance !

@briangriffiths1285 Ай бұрын

All will be well at Euston until a points failure sends a train to the wrong platform... Waterloo used to suffer with the 8 minute boarding announcement to departure and if you had mobility issues you were sunk at peak rush hour unless you knew from experience the likely platform for departure. I wish them well and yes it seems the world has gone mad that such a system needs to be thought of!

@rodreed5147 Ай бұрын

Facinating to hear Chilterns plan for Hybrid trains. They are a very progressive railway!

@amazoniaamazonia7225 Ай бұрын

I use to driver the 158s when they were new and any driver from that period will tell you they could be lethal during the leaf fall season and were eventually fitted with scrubber blocks and one shot sand, I’m surprised to hear subsequently some of this equipment has been removed. One pass of the rail head treatment train in 24hrs is woefully inadequate.

@EE12CSVT Ай бұрын

Nope, TfW 158s are still fitted with the one-shot samder 'RAIB’s preliminary examination has found that westbound train 1J25 had been due to stop in the loop at Talerddig to allow eastbound train 1S71 to pass. Initial analysis of data from the on-train data recorder (OTDR) fitted to train 1J25 shows that the driver applied service braking to slow the train as it neared the loop at Talerddig. Around 40 seconds after the first service brake application, the OTDR records an emergency brake demand being made. This emergency brake demand remained in place until the collision. OTDR data shows that wheel slide started during service braking and was constant during emergency braking. Train 1J25 then entered the loop at Talerddig. Although the train slowed while passing through the loop, it did not stop before passing the block marker positioned near the exit. The train subsequently exited the loop, rejoined the single line, and continued to travel for around 900 metres on the descending gradient, before colliding with train 1S71. There is conflicting evidence relating to the speed of the trains at the point of collision. Initial analysis indicates that train 1J25 was travelling at between 24 km/h (15 mph) and 39 km/h (24 mph), while train 1S71 was travelling at around 10 km/h (6 mph) in the opposite direction. RAIB is continuing to analyse evidence relating to the collision speed, which remains an area of ongoing investigation. Following the accident, RAIB undertook measurements of wheel/rail adhesion levels at various locations from the approach to Talerddig loop to the point of collision. These found levels of wheel/rail adhesion that were low. An inspection of the automatic sanding system fitted to train 1J25 after the accident showed that the sanding hoses on the leading vehicle of this train (which would have been active at the time of the accident) were blocked and apparently unable to discharge sand.'

@chrisgrose5431 Ай бұрын

I was wondering what had happened to that research on safer additional third rail. As an Uckfield Line passenger I have a vested interest in the subject!

@JeanPierre-jb5ln Ай бұрын

Are there no check points at each end of the passing loop ? If not why not ?

@EE12CSVT Ай бұрын

No, there aren't

@peterrobinson6872 Ай бұрын

Trap points have been removed in many locations. A manager performs a risk assessment (which justifies the predetermined outcome), which shows that they are not needed. Kudos to that manage for saving money ...

@JeanPierre-jb5ln Ай бұрын

@ if trap points were in use at the crash site and given the speeds on this occasion we might have avoided a head on collision?

@EE12CSVT Ай бұрын

@JeanPierre-jb5ln It should have, but it comes down to whether or not it's justified by a VPF calculation. It probably wouldn't be unless it prevented one fatality every 2 years because of a slide.

@paulgodwin604 Ай бұрын

My first reaction, on hearing the news of the accident, was to check if there is a trap point or siding. According the the track diagram, there isn’t for westbound trains. If there had been, the severity of the crash would have been much reduced. I note there is one for eastbound. If that’s the case then the Eastbound trains should enter the passing loop first. I hate to say this but in MHO the awful SN109 crash at Paddington demonstrated the consequences of the lack of trap points/sidings. Given the propensity of Multiple Unit skids (remember Salisbury) , I think this subject needs re-evaluating.

@robertmorley9748 Ай бұрын

Coming home from Mach depot back @2009 (toward Shrewsbury) the 158 I was on suffered wheelslip so bad that we actually came to a stand . We had to reverse and literally take a run at it 😳

@JoseWhon 12 күн бұрын

Looking forward to Chiltern’s new trains by 2030 then! 5 years to go! Can’t wait!

@andrewmerriman7133 Ай бұрын

Something does not add up in your comments on the Talerddig accident. In order for the Down Train to enter the Right Hand Loop from Shrewabury the Down Facing Points and The Up Trailing Points would both have to be set for the Right Hand Loop from Shrewsbury and the Left hand Loop from Machynlleth. The Up Train from Machynlleth would be stopped some way before the Passing Loop at Talerddig and if it tried to go past the marker board then the brakes would automatically be applied. You indicate that there was damage to the trailing points from the Down Train Running through the points as they were set for the Right Hand Loop travelling from Machynlleth, As far as I am aware those points could not have been set for the Up train from Machynlleth until the Down Train From Shrewsbury had been stationary in the Loop for 30 seconds in line with the use of other passing Loops on the Cambrian. As the Down train ran through the loop it clearly did not stop stationary in the loop for 30 seconds.

@nigelharris6873 Ай бұрын

Information from reliable source, in a position to know. We do not know all circs yet - such as no confirmation yet as to why train from Mach stopped 800m short of the loop, where it stood at the time the collision.

@andrewmerriman7133 Ай бұрын

@@nigelharris6873 Thanks for your reply, as I indicated in my comment the Up Train would be stopped on the Machynlleth side of the passing Loop at Talerddig at the marker board because that is how ERTMS operates. I must admit I could not remember how far from the Loop the marker board was but 800m sounds right to me. I live on the Cambrian Route right by a passing loop so am used to seeing the operational aspects of ERTMS.

@garrywilson2748 Ай бұрын

Very interesting episode as always. Time flies by listening to it ! Unfortunately...I've experienced wheel slides with 158s...they were my basic traction....in midfield 90s. Really scary....putting brake on at your recognised braking point.....and speedo goes to 0 and no slowing down happens. Had a few last door on the platform moments....but very luckily no SPADs . Sorry for all involved in this accident.

@sanspareil3018 Ай бұрын

Railway Mission comment is very interesting. When I worked in the industry myself, a few years ago now, they provided a valuable service but were not well recognised by some TOCs. An update on their current role and their situation on this channel may be of interest.

@vg8022 Ай бұрын

Hi everyone. I have a colleague train driver trying to move closer to home and applying to Northern only to be told consistently for the last 12 months that "Northern isn't recruiting at the moment " . There is your answer to the crew shortage!!!?

@howardjones6752 Ай бұрын

Will HS2 hitachi train seats be better than the park bench ones used on GWR 1st ones that I suffered on when introduced from Paddington to Swansea some years ago ?

@Anonymoususer_8823 Ай бұрын

Such a horrible train accident in Wales. My thoughts are with those who lost their loved ones. Very sad. As you said about Euston station redevelopment or upgrades. I personally do feel like that Euston station should be demolished and to be rebuilt to make it lot better, brighter and more bigger to cope with more extra capacity and to help reduce overcrowding. And to build an underground pedestrian link between Euston main line & HS2 station and Euston Square station. I would like to see London Euston station look lot better than it currently is at the moment.

@nickdawson9270 Ай бұрын

How many P-way staff are electrocuted by 3rd rail compared with those struck by moving trains?

@LittleWing-35 Ай бұрын

Feel like I’ve had a good week of Green Signals content 🙏🏼

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

It's been a busy week, hasn't it?!

@trevorrothwell5565 Ай бұрын

Another terrific show, thank you - but if I'm going to be picky I think you'll find the Wiltshire tunnel is simply 'Box'. Box Hill is near Dorking, in Surrey, and on a completely different rail network..... It may be a myth about the sun shining through Brunel's Box tunnel but the structure is rather more complex than just a hole through a hill!

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Fair points!

@Monothefox Ай бұрын

Is this one of the lines that were converted from RETB to other systems?

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Correct. It was converted from RETB to ERTMS in 2011

@nickdawson9270 Ай бұрын

I’m sure the RAIB final report will be the result of extensive detailed investigation and analysis. Not surprising that inadequate adhesion to contaminated railhead is a major item of interest. Disappointing that current counter measures still left one dead and several passengers seriously injured. Is it time for seat restraints to be fitted. Two cars colliding at 15 mph would rarely lead to a similar outcome.

@roadie4360 Ай бұрын

You could go with in seat restraints aka seat belts. The consequences of this would be interesting? No requirement for onboard toilets allowing more seats per carriage (as they are compatible), additional luggage storage, all seats would have to be reserved, if your train is cancelled, short formed what happens to your right to travel, a lot less capacity. Imagine a sporting event in the Principality Stadium, the train would not be a viable option as you would many many more trains to clear the audience.

@nickdawson9270 Ай бұрын

@@roadie4360 When children get on a school bus the sensible ones fasten their seat belts. Recently one didn't and tragically she died from her injuries when the bus turned over at speed. Installing lap belts does not reduce seating capacity. Of course it would be of no benefit to the thousands obliged to stand because of sufficient capacity. In practice I am one of the millions in this country who heavily subsidise the railways through taxation but rarely travel by train; a figure of £800 per head comes to mind. Invariably I travel by car, don't have to book and always get a seat. And I always wear a seat belt.

@NewNightmare115 Ай бұрын

19:20 I went to Newcastle from Hartlepool on a Northetrn service on Sunday 20th September, and due to a cancelled service I had to use a Grand Central service to change to a Northern from Eaglescliffe to Darlington, then a XCountry to Newcastle. Same on the return trip too. Northern gave me a full refund for this.

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Fair enough though that you got a refund.

@PeterEllis-n7q Ай бұрын

Is there clarity in the report that both the main line and passing loop were treated by the MTV on the day?

@andrewhotston983 Ай бұрын

The RHTT would have done a return trip to Aberystwyth, so would have done one side of the loop on the way out, and the other on the way back.

@thomasgregson102 Ай бұрын

For your deep dive on Norther, it would be interesting to know why Northern was able to sort out their issues in Yorkshire and the North East of staffing and can run a Sunday timetable where we don't see the problems which have plagued the North west.

@philkennedy709 Ай бұрын

Northern was formed in 2000 by an amalgamated of First North Western and Arriva Train Northern. Arriva had sorted making Sunday part of the working week whereas First (no real surprises here) had not. Thus Northern were left with two separate staff working agreements which have been bizarrely been left in place for 24 years.

@nigelduckworth4419 Ай бұрын

I am slightly confused about the matter of the collision taken place nearly half a mile from the loop. Surely the driver of the westbound train would have entered a loop at a slow speed in order to stop in the loop and so as not to derail when entering the loop at speed. If rail contamination were to be a factor, then it might well have been apparent to that driver if he was struggling to get up the gradient prior to the loop and to have therefore have been ready to reduce speed to a crawl when in the loop. If he had done so, is it likely that the train - a relatively lightweight 2 car unit, would have taken nearly half a mile to stop, even if the train had overshot the loop? We need to know whether both trains were moving at the moment of collision or whether the westbound train had managed to stop before it and whether there was any severe braking from the westbound train.

@EE12CSVT Ай бұрын

Both points are rated at 80kph I think - they're certainly not slow spees ones. Trains on a through run don't slow down much to run through. The eastbound unit wouldn't need to stop on the bank, and they never do. They run through into the free line of the loop irrespective of whether or not a train is in the other one. They never do a standing start on the incline, and certainly not at this time of year. Also, the railhead was likely not contaminated on the single line on the eastern side of the loop, so the area of low adhesion probably only was where it became critical to stop. It depends what the RAIB found from their inspection.

@EE12CSVT Ай бұрын

ETCS would have intervened once it detected 158841 was outside the braking envelope, but nothing that could do would have prevented the collision. It was out of the driver's and the ETCS system's hands.

@andrewmerriman7133 Ай бұрын

@@EE12CSVT You cannot have two trains entering a passing loop at the same time under ERTMS. Once the road had been set for the Down Train to run into the right hand loop which also required the points at the Machynlleth end of the Talerddig Loop to be set for travel into the Left hand Loop then the up train would be set to stop at the marker board. Whilst Machynlleth Signalling Centre try to avoid holding Up trains on the Machynlleth side of the Talerddig Loop ir certainly does happen. As someone who lives on and uses the line regularly I have been on a train held at the marker board as this one was. Your quite right in that the second train or only when a cross is not taking place uses the left hand loop for Down Trains and the Right hand loop for up trains which is the same loop and longer with larger radius curves than the the other loop, I think I am correct in saying that this loop has a higher speed limit than the one the Down train came through and should have stopped in I will check that with one of the Drivers I know well once I see him and amend this if necessary.

@EE12CSVT Ай бұрын

@andrewmerriman7133 I'm aware of how it works, thanks. I live on the line and use it regularly. Not once has my eastbound train been held at the stop board on the bank.

@andrewmerriman7133 Ай бұрын

@@EE12CSVT I am not totally surprised you have never been held at the marker board at Talerddig it has been rare that I have known it. There must be the possibility that following this accident in the future that Down Trains will beheld at the Down marker board before Talerddig with the Up train going into the loop first before the Down train goes into the vacant loop. It will be interesting to see what signalling regulations will be changed, if any, following this when the full report is completed.

@RoyGarrington Ай бұрын

older rolling stock never had a problem with rail-decontamination as it used brake blocks on the wheel.newer stock disc brake.

@Hugh-nr5sx Ай бұрын

We really have to wait for the full accident report and avoid speculation.

@EE12CSVT Ай бұрын

'RAIB’s preliminary examination has found that westbound train 1J25 had been due to stop in the loop at Talerddig to allow eastbound train 1S71 to pass. Initial analysis of data from the on-train data recorder (OTDR) fitted to train 1J25 shows that the driver applied service braking to slow the train as it neared the loop at Talerddig. Around 40 seconds after the first service brake application, the OTDR records an emergency brake demand being made. This emergency brake demand remained in place until the collision. OTDR data shows that wheel slide started during service braking and was constant during emergency braking. Train 1J25 then entered the loop at Talerddig. Although the train slowed while passing through the loop, it did not stop before passing the block marker positioned near the exit. The train subsequently exited the loop, rejoined the single line, and continued to travel for around 900 metres on the descending gradient, before colliding with train 1S71. There is conflicting evidence relating to the speed of the trains at the point of collision. Initial analysis indicates that train 1J25 was travelling at between 24 km/h (15 mph) and 39 km/h (24 mph), while train 1S71 was travelling at around 10 km/h (6 mph) in the opposite direction. RAIB is continuing to analyse evidence relating to the collision speed, which remains an area of ongoing investigation. Following the accident, RAIB undertook measurements of wheel/rail adhesion levels at various locations from the approach to Talerddig loop to the point of collision. These found levels of wheel/rail adhesion that were low. An inspection of the automatic sanding system fitted to train 1J25 after the accident showed that the sanding hoses on the leading vehicle of this train (which would have been active at the time of the accident) were blocked and apparently unable to discharge sand.'

@Teesside_Biker Ай бұрын

Euston - I share your thoughts, surely its the station operators responsibility to coordinate and integrate operation of all activities that happen there. Unfortunately NR is a seriously siloed organisation and struggle coordinate and integrate internally therefore doing so with 3rd parties ............ Hopefully when GBR commences (if and when ?) things will improve but only if a completely new operational model is established. If all the current segregated parts are just glued together nothing will change - CHANGE is essential for improvements to happen

@mattjackson8226 Ай бұрын

Will be really interested to see the interview about the West of England line sounds good.

@Andrewjg_89 Ай бұрын

As you mentioned about Euston station upgrades. I think that Euston station should be demolished and to be rebuilt with few extra platforms and dedicated platforms for London Overground, shared platforms for Avanti West Coast, London Northwestern Railway and Caledonian Sleeper. And new platforms for HS2.

@nick7076 Ай бұрын

Ex Northern driver here. 2002 to 2016 Driver training and rest day working issues are not new. New drivers would only sign 1 route. They couldn't start learning another for 6 months, to embed their knowledge. To route learn need cab access. Mew drivers couldn't let a router learner join them. You couldn't learn on another operator's train. You can only have 1 learner at a time in a cab. RDW could only be used (when we had it) to cover a driver released for training. But people had to want to do RDW and when the job you were likely to get would be the worst at depot, drivers didn't sign up. Add the embedded dislike of higher management, and drivers wouldn't be flexible on doing a bit of overtime for 12s I doubt anything has changed for the better

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Nick - thanks for this. If you were able to drop us a quick email on info@greensignals.org, I've got a couple of clarification questions if that's possible?

@tobyytlai Ай бұрын

Should passing loops have trap points to protect the live running line?

@andrewmerriman7133 Ай бұрын

You make a good point, the right hand loop from Shrewsbury had one when Talerddig had a Signal Box but they were removed before October 1988 when Radio Signalling came in. ERTMS is the 3rd Signalling System on the Cambrian and whilst it is an improvement on Radio Signalling it is very inferior to Mechanical Signalling in my opinion. Had the Mechanical Signalling still been in operation the worst that would have happened in this instance is the train would have gone through the Trap Point into a Sand Drag.

@allanmorton6022 Ай бұрын

Another interesting set of topics, enjoyed the 3rd rail potential news and also Chiltern decarb plans. Never convinced by discontinuous electrification but maybe it's time has come but risk is freight is left behind. Interesting HS2 is testing with user input but this should be standard practice and maybe would have avoided some poor new seats in newer trains. The east west test train track looked really tidy and well implemented. Enjoyed your budget coverage too, despite rail not being mentioned much - even including projects almost finished!

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Thanks Allan! Good point re freight though not sure freight features too much on either of the lines we discussed so hopefully not a problem in these cases. Budget not great, though I suppose it could have been worse for rail. Terrible for business though and if I were a farmer, I would be fuming.

@nickdawson9270 Ай бұрын

On the subject of batteries to “decarbonise” has anything more been heard from GWR about the pilot between WEA and GFD?

@MrDixie951 Ай бұрын

Fantastic and informative as usual gents. It may help the Northern Sunday situation if you look into what agreements are in place for drivers and especially guards. It will be an eye opener for you on the ridiculous situation that has been created a but i will point out, sunday working has nothing to do with a rest day working agreement. Keep them coming though, loving the content and the jollies are jollies but we get some great insights into the workings of all aspects of the railway

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

The "jollies are jollies"!! Honestly - you've clearly been talking to Harris. They're work I tell you - hard work!!!!

@wirksworthsrailway Ай бұрын

“Please do join us next week.” You jest - you’re required watching!

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Cheers Neil! And you'll be pleased to know another certain video is taking shape.....!

@ricktownend9144 Ай бұрын

Thank you for another great episode - enjoyable and instructive as always. Re the Talerdig crash, I can't see clearly from Google-Maps whether there are any catch-points/trap-points on the loop in question - but if not, why not? I look forward to the full interview with Neil Drury, but I'm not sure about the idea of power supply being on only at times when needed (maybe like the fast-charge at West Ealing). It seems to be a complication which will go wrong at some point - possibly more often than people getting hurt on the existing 3rd-rail network. Are there not other technical fixes? - The 3rd-rail ban does not apply to the DLR, presumably because the contact is with the underside of the electric rail. Could there be collector arms for both types of rail fitted to trains, which retracted, and only the correct sort was put out depending on whether the local supply was 'normal' or 'DLR-style'?

@andrewmerriman7133 Ай бұрын

No there were no Trap Points in Talerddig, there had been one at the Machynlleth end of the Right Hand Loop line ( Down Direction from Shrewsbury) until the middle 1980's. When radio signalling came in during October 1988 the facing points were train operated from the Normal to Reverse Position not been controlled from Machynlleth Signal Box. It was therefore impossible to include Trap Points so they were all removed before October 1988 I think the last one to survive was in the Up Main Loop Spur at Dovey Junction. Before ERTMS Signalling came in the points were fitted with motors and clamp locks (by March 2011) but by that point Railways were no longer fitting new Trap Points.

@ricktownend9144 Ай бұрын

@@andrewmerriman7133 Thanks for that information. So ... administrative inconvenience (and cost) trumps safety.

@andrewmerriman7133 Ай бұрын

@@ricktownend9144 In my opinion yes, the real problem was caused when mechanical signalling was removed on the Cambrian. Financial viability meant that away of signalling lesser used lives more effectively required the signalling to be done at less cost. You may be interested to know at one time it was planned to run the whole country from 5 Signal Boxes, thank goodness sense has prevailed, for now. I was told by the Former Movements Inspector at Machynlleth that the ERTMS Signalling would eventually be run from Cardiff Signal Box, if that happens that will be fun!

@charlo90952 Ай бұрын

Battery electric is the way to go. All major HGV manufacturers have battery electric. One interesting finding is that power consumption is actually lower in hilly terrain due to regenerative braking, which could be of benefit in the West of England.

@andrewhotston983 Ай бұрын

Meanwhile, in the real world...

@charlo90952 Ай бұрын

@andrewhotston983 it is the real world.

@memediatek Ай бұрын

Battery electric is heavier, meaning you need more power to move the train. Regenerative braking has been used for years with EMUs, and on the continent even locos. What we really need is more trains like the desiro city, lightweight EMUs with strong regenerative braking

@charlo90952 Ай бұрын

@memediatek but we don't want the cost of overhead electrification.

@andrewhotston983 Ай бұрын

@@charlo90952 Then we don't want a reliable, modern railway!

@johnjephcote7636 Ай бұрын

If it was a tramline then maybe (without magnetic braking) wheelslide could be an issue. This is a heavy rail line so why was one train in a section occupied by another? What happened to Tyer's electric train tablets? (Abermule 1921 should never have occurred had staff looked at the tablets they were holding.)

@EE12CSVT Ай бұрын

Ahem, we've had ERTMS here since 2011 and RETB since 1988 before that

@iaindobson3387 Ай бұрын

The problem with Northern is it is not all of Northern. The problem is with the legacy First North Western contracts which did not have 7/7 working so the problems are in the North West.

@nickdawson9270 Ай бұрын

London Overground operate stock that has both 3rd rail and O/H capability. Isn’t the same solution possible on the South Western?

@jonb23 Ай бұрын

The RHTT ran as booked but did it cover the loop or only the main....

@EE12CSVT Ай бұрын

Both lines in the loop are main line. It ran to Mach as diagrammed and would have used both lines of the loop.

@howardjones6752 Ай бұрын

Recently discovered this site how do I become a gold member ?

@beeble2003 Ай бұрын

I'm confused. I'd rather just read the RAIB interim report myself, but I can't see any such thing on the RAIB website.

@andrewmerriman7133 Ай бұрын

I don't think the interim reports get published only the final report, I am not surprised your confused, as a Former Movements Inspector on a railway details do not add up to me either. I have put a number of posts on here, mainly replies, that might help you out.

@beeble2003 Ай бұрын

@@andrewmerriman7133 If the interim report doesn't get published, how do these guys know what's in it?

@kevinjones4559 Ай бұрын

On the Windsor to Staines branch the vegetation does a good impression of the Amazon rain forest.

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

It's not the only place!

@ninepinezine Ай бұрын

Northern are still reliant on faxes for train control / communication. (So they told Mr Burnham). A lack of drivers is only one of their woes it seems.

@robertbannocks6750 Ай бұрын

Do you really beleive their excuse that the unions need to be consulted or is that subtle propoganda.

@MrKinnoull Ай бұрын

Chris Green was the best Manager Scotrail ever had!

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

He will appreciate you saying that!

@tomslade3365 Ай бұрын

Very much a FFS moment with the euston story !! lots main stations suffer from this boarding time issuse the few min's notice and the scrum to get to a platform for infrequent travillers very off putting and for the older person of disabled person a real stress the is a lot walking involved with getting on a train . so having 10 or 15 mins notice is good you can pace your walk and find the platform train and coach in good time the train was suposed to be a relaxed mode of transport not a trial by combate experance lol ... OK the can be issuse with points and blocked platforms but that should be an exceptioneles and if the are some major inforstutor issues to sort then sort them not sit on your bum in a office .

@stanislavkostarnov2157 Ай бұрын

do we actually believe HS2 will ever be beyond the stage of wooden correspondents looking at wooden trains? I am not old, but I lost faith in seeing HS2 in my lifetime... As a former HighWycomber/Prince-Risborian I am glad to see The Chiltern Railway is still doing strong.

@ethmister Ай бұрын

Hopefully West of England can be re doubled as it massively needed as now every train is delayed due to not enough passing loops

@Bugster42 Ай бұрын

at euston i got the impression that passengers were delayed and liet go as if they shouted go for a crazy rush perhaps this is what you are talkig about

@laycock1504 Ай бұрын

Is the quest question about the two places in lancashire

@billmmckelvie5188 Ай бұрын

What about the train's own sandboxes?

@richardhutton2089 Ай бұрын

..depends if they were replenished when they where refuelled. This time of year im almost certain they would have been. It also depends on how much was used on that particular route. I'm not familiar with that route so I can't comment

@stephenford9426 Ай бұрын

@@richardhutton2089 Steeply rising gradient westbound all the way from Caersws to Talerddig loop - 1 in 80, 1 in 71- possibly used a lot of sand to combat wheelSLIP. If he managed to reach the summit at, say, a reasonably cautious 20mph - and then had nothing left to stop with when wheelSLIDE took over - once past the summit it was a 1 in 52 descent.

@anthonypowell5665 Ай бұрын

His comments of discontinues electrification I think are a good idea . Hopefully we'll get a good idea hoqnit performs when we get thec756s entering service next few weeks

@charlescheetham Ай бұрын

Do you mean Box tunnel, or is it a trick question?(And yes it’s true!!)

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Ah, now that is the question. Answer on Thursday 14th - because next week, we are live at the RIA conference.

@EE12CSVT Ай бұрын

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Thanks Richard. We'll be covering this in Episode 58, which will be out this week.

@EE12CSVT Ай бұрын

@GreenSignals I've just emailed you via your website

@DOCTORDROTT Ай бұрын

They don't use sandite any more, just water jetting. I looked after the rhtts for many years. I have seen a 1500 tonne stationary train slip on a grade with brakes full on

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Thanks.

@beeble2003 Ай бұрын

Are you sure about that? If you Google "Tackling leaves on the line using hygroscopic sand", the first hit is a November 2023 article on Network Rail's website that says "One way we tackle [note present tense] leaves on the line is by using a special type of traction sand known as adhesion modifier or sandite." The video on that page also refers to a "sandy gel" being applied to the rails.

@robinedwards598 Ай бұрын

It seems NO lessons were learnt from Salisbury….. None at all.

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Let's wait and see what the investigations conclude.

@noeldunford4955 Ай бұрын

Good day green signals last year I put my clock forward it fell of the mantlepeace

@andrewsavill8205 Ай бұрын

What is wrong with the railways having a 'Sunday as Monday' agreement? It happens in a wide variety of 7 day businesses. There'll need to be an uplift in basic pay but it would allow a 7 day rota to be put in place.

@LittleWing-35 Ай бұрын

There’s not enough drivers to roster that. They are struggling to roster a Monday to Saturday, let alone the Sunday. Due to company’s not investing in recruitment, planning, figuring out retirement and sickness, no forward planning. We’ve now came to the point where it’s pretty much, oh, wait?! Maybe we should have planned this 5 years ago. This in turn leads to fatigue, more jobs are open, more pressure to swap shifts or cover extra jobs and ‘can you do a shunt here’ when you’re already on a full 10 hour diagram.

@stephensmith4480 Ай бұрын

I have worked on The Railway for 35 years and we have always had Sunday as the start of the week. From when we were privatised, you don't get any enhanced pay for Sunday working, it's just a normal day.

@arnoldsaunders6073 Ай бұрын

There should be a sickness policy. Four stages.

@anthonytidey2005 Ай бұрын

Is not Northan who are still using fax machines, et al. May be this is why they have a problem.

@JANGLEPOP1 Ай бұрын

This type of accident would never happen on Northern Rail as there is always "an issue with the train crew" to stop it running.

@christopherbentley5216 Ай бұрын

Politicians say and actually do,is totally different. They are still talking about East West Railways reaching Cambridge from Bedford. Really, after the fiasco of HS2 ? Then that section to be electrified ,but why wasn't Bletchley to Bicester electrified as per the original specification. Simple it was cancelled due to the costs. So how on earth is Cambridge to be reached when the old track bed is built on.

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Press release issued today (31st) regarding electrification of EWR.

@equaliser2265 Ай бұрын

So 15 mph each train 30mph collision. Points not working then, as these drivers know the route and do it regularly.

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

No, one was stationary.

@NigelHarris-gj4yy Ай бұрын

Where is surface area witihin the equation:static friction force equals mu times mass times gravity (normal reaction)? More wheel sets will help in the form of conditioning, so yes surface area does kind of matter. The latter is negated to some extent if rail contamination is substantial over a long distance. Remember 9%g braking will require mu 0.09. Longer train or more wheel sets will have more mass. The physics matters.

@BenRattigan Ай бұрын

I think there is a difference between public ownership and government control.

@MRPUD1 Ай бұрын

Another great video Guys . I work on a small heritage Railway , And I find these videos a good way to keep up with the Rail network. I did sort of wonder why a operator of Last resorts has made a worser mess of Northern Trains than the previous owners . It's almost like a lucky dip with trains if yours turn up it's a bonus . My question is why are people paying rail fares when there put on buses which don't normally cost as much . Who is making money . If the network is down is it Network Rail that are paying operators. Another quick one if we travel on trans Pennie . Why is it that as a disabled passenger we are made too sit next too the doors on the older stock . We thought things were on the up when the Novas where put into service . Sadly the loco hauled trains were side lined because people complained they where too noisy . These were mainly used on the Scarborough line which my house backs onto . Trains only ran until about 11pm It's almost like been in the dark ages . It would be nice to get a view on trains from disabled before designs are put into build Regards Mike

@PleiadesImprezaT2000AWD-l4l Ай бұрын

Regarding the train crew shortage, the solution has to be recruit more train crews. XC are in a similar situation with running a reduced service and short-formed trains. A 4-car on the 18:56 out of Sheffield means standing in the aisles, last week it meant the train manager asking people to squeeze up (in Sheffield of all places!). How they recruit more train crews given a Labour shortage and the UK having cut itself off, stupidly and short-sightedly, from the EU freedom of movement, i don't know.

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

There's no substitute for a full establishment to run the timetable.

@EE12CSVT Ай бұрын

I've a feeling there's going to be some squeaky bums over at TfW pretty soon

@PleiadesImprezaT2000AWD-l4l Ай бұрын

The operator of last resort is not the same as nationalisation. #BBBR

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Legally no, but not sure of your point.

@PleiadesImprezaT2000AWD-l4l Ай бұрын

@GreenSignals the operator of last resort is still operating a franchise within all of the restrictions of the franchise model.

@robertbannocks6750 Ай бұрын

"no more 3rd rail" is a silly misnomia it did not apply to the East London line extentions, and 4th rail extensions of the London Underground on the JLE and the Northern Line, so why should not further extensions be possible? Its only been operating for 100 years in the south and Merseyside. It could and should be the logical choice for the line to Exeter (whether or not live when needed is the answer is far from clear as it could induce a false sense of security on little used lines) and also as Chilten to Aylesbury runs over LU track - Dual electrified units drawing power from the 3rd and 4th rails and what ever other technology Chilten want makes obvious sense.

@Mariazellerbahn Ай бұрын

The culprits in this are the Government and the railway itself. This would not have happened if the line had not been singled to save money. This would not have happened if the 158's were fitted with sanding equipment, again not ftted to save money.

@EE12CSVT Ай бұрын

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 The Cambrian has always been single track ever simce it was first built. These 158s are also fitted with two types of sanding equipment. Back to school, commie.

@locomotionlotion779 Ай бұрын

The Northern solution is simple. Network Rail and the DfT need to demand that the bosses are shareholders take fewer bonuses and dividends (essentially stop creaming off the top), set up a drivers school that’s capable of keeping up with demand and get on with it. Two years to get drivers completely qualified is more than enough time, they’ve had longer than that. Rest Day working should never be mandatory. You can’t just expect people to work their days off! Younger generations in particular are moving away from the idea of being comfortable with working overtime, all the time. They quite rightly want to be able to put a roof over their heads with a better work/life balance. Gen Z and Gen Alpha are going to forcefull and rapidly overturn the working culture as they enter the workforce over the next few years. It’s already starting to happen, the railway had better get used to it! Start planning and rostering to fill all the jobs with the staff you have! If there aren’t enough people in the roster, heads need to roll. RDW. SHOULD. NEVER. BE. EXPECTED.

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Not entirely sure about the dividends point in age of NRCs on thing margins - but i agree that we need to plan and train for a full roster. Cheers.

@NiceDiscotheque Ай бұрын

I don’t think the rail unions would support it without some sort of financial compensation for the drivers. Currently, it seems that it’s not in the best interest of train drivers and therefore their unions to recruit as many drivers as are necessary to run a service without overtime working. This maintains a source of additional income for the drivers and also helps to protect the security of their role.

@locomotionlotion779 Ай бұрын

@@GreenSignals if I’ve learned anything while working on the railway, it’s that someone is always creaming it off the top. Cynical attitude, yes, but realistic.

@locomotionlotion779 Ай бұрын

@@NiceDiscotheque maybe, but planning to rely on overtime is insanity. Attitudes are changing, I’ve noticed that my employer can’t even get in contact with under 30’s when they need them for overtime. Times are changing, the railway will have to change with it. If Northern aren’t making enough money, they could address the fact that a lot of their services are garbage and absolutely require newer, longer rolling stock with better and faster connections, but that’s something for DfT and Northern Powerhouse to consider.

@NiceDiscotheque Ай бұрын

@@locomotionlotion779 The reliance on overtime is the fault of all involved. Until that’s recognised, nothing will be resolved

@grahamallen1970 Ай бұрын

Re the Euston problems...not to take away from any one who works for NR stations but the railway took a backwards step when this was set up as a railworker the toc run stations where more smoothly run as most staff where 'rail workers' NR stepped in and the dynamics changed NR stations acted like cold night club door men. The fault with a toc running a station was favouritism for own service Don't think there is one answer 😮

@johnnorman7044 Ай бұрын

i must say Euston sounds like the BRITTAS EMPIRE ! watch this space we will be back on that one !

@daffyduk77 Ай бұрын

You wouldn't have had all the trumpet-blowing "Network Rail talks to Train operating companies" BS spiel back in the BR days. Or those monstrous Orwellian video advertising screens at Euston station. BR curled-up sandwiches any day

@anthonypowell5665 Ай бұрын

Works now