WAR HAMMERS A PLENTY | Tom & Ben!

Your weekly dose of Warhammer with Bem & Ton!
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Ton: / angorytom
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[@TKDxxxward]

For those who come after me 8:40!

[@daryl4341]

Kremlo bless you

[@Goliath5541]

And break ends 1:35:48

[@tallleprechaun1318]

The chosen ones have blessed us. Praise Kremlo

[@brynley]

Spanks chief!

[@OrangeDog20]

1:35:51

[@ChandlerBiloxi]

Kill Your Necromancer? Still blown away by the creepy twins, Ravs their plaything, and Ben's proper Zombie+++++++++++++++ If I had not been a subscriber from the getgo, that one would have made me subscribe to MysteryQuest.

[@Magicalseanie]

I will sign up for a membership THE MINUTE I hear you're doing Dog Soldiers. Get on it Benny Boy!

[@AberrantChibi]

Ben: "I want to google what that (Leto II) would look like." Tom: *"CAREFUL."* _Gowron eyes_ I actually remember Space Precinct, or rather, I have one specific memory of third-eye alien going to look into someone's mind or memories through his third eye which then dramatically opened.

[@TrekPraxis]

2:24:10 astonished that neither of them picked up on "Dick Spanner, P.I."

[@blueroman5538]

Space precinct might be the hardest I’ve laughed in a long time, MORGO CAME FROM SPACE

[@antonylittle685]

So... Hear me out. Its dog soldiers.... But with the cast of dads army 😂

[@patrickcleary2305]

I'd watch it

[@soupkup9377]

Dads Vs Dogs!

[@steelgunsuit]

i know toms jokeing. but i would love a Dog Soldiers: Battle Report.

[@synsnap7548]

When they found out they could rename units it totally clicked for me, I want way more of this!

[@Purple_Vampyr]

Holy shit, Space Precinct! I probably haven't thought about that show since it was on TV 😂

[@steelgunsuit]

Not only do i remember Dog Soldiers, i loved it. And I'm under 35(barely) and not from the UK.

[@sheildingepicness]

Ben using his spell that curses the units defense but then actively not attacking that unit at all really makes me question his years of warhammer/tabletop/strategy gaming

[@deetsitmeisterjd]

It's to break morale 👍

[@Cyrathil]

About Acolyte, that's basically how D&D started. There were larger wargames, smaller and smaller rulesets would come out to allow for more focus play and eventually it became you controlling a single character as part of a group.

[@WhichDoctor1]

next week they should look at the trailer for space cops the 80s TV movie cause thats much more crazy

[@brokenstill126]

Dog Soldiers is great! Also downloaded the game seems cool!

[@bensnumber1fan708]

The fucking boxing scene always gets me

[@AngryWelshRonin]

Honestly, as a games night channel member; I 100% would want a Dog Soldiers episode!

[@adamumagpire7848]

Having this new way of watching u lovely lads...no updates and no yogsquest live unless I search hard...after dark 3 weeks ago must have been very dark I'll meet ya live in the stream vermin tomorrow...honestly something has gone sideways...not like verticle tom and and horizontal ben. Love you guys keep up the chortles😊😊😊

[@Kingcaza100]

space precinct.....I have been trying to remember this show for years!

[@ComparedTurnip]

32:45 acolyte kill team game

[@SEDresden]

Wormlo! He came from SPICE!

[@SMC01ful]

Well done Panthers. Deserved to win it tonight. We didn't make our plays. You also shut down McDavid and Drai really well! If we hadn't had such a bogus start to the season, we might have had a home final. Maybe, that would have been different! But hey there, well done on Number 1 guys!

[@nroke1684]

What

[@Ovetupp]

Kremlo came from space and before that he was best friends with Morgo

[@murphy7801]

Morgos ears being normal human freak me out

[@zactorbeam3809]

Margo came from space?

[@FR4Z3R96]

damn duncan the indomitable sounds fucking dope, I need to read the dune books

[@ItsRinaldo]

Dog Soldiers rules

[@monkeyhammer]

I think dune 2 was too close to the book, Herbert was very good at the world building, but the character arcs in the second half don't express the ideas he was trying to get across very well.

[@Ganinoish]

Yeah the book deserve its rank as a classic and a literary milestone, but only for it's role in fantasy and sci-fi world building, but absolutely not for its characters. Does he get better at it as the series continues? I only ever read the first one.

[@monkeyhammer]

@@Ganinoish dune Messiah is ok, but didn't really make as much of an impact as the first book, but I hated children of dune and gave up halfway through

[@githerax5303]

Yeah sad to say Villeneuve botched it pretty bad. The point of Paul's names and the point of the secondary characters were supposed to work together: - His mother did not try to manipulate him into taking the water, like in the movie. She was intended to represent a pragmatic "use whatever title you can" approach, a very political approach. She wanted to make sure he used the power of being an Atreides to his advantage, leaving Arrakis to hide out and rebuild his House. And in the meantime position himself in Fremen society as Lisan Al-Gaib which she understood well because it was a Bene Gesserit setup. She gave Paul a way to visualize his future as a Duke, playing politics. - Stilgar was a pure Fremen so he had some "faith" in Lisan Al-Gaib, but not a lot of Missiona Protectiva learning. He was more like a modern-day lapsed Catholic who in reality knows nothing about the Bible anymore. But he also respected the Fremen traditions so Paul establishing his rep as 'Usul', the fighter-name, and 'Muad-dib', his Fremen "civilian" name would determine how well he would fit into Fremen society. He gave Paul a way to visualize what his future would be like if he chose the Fremen lifestyle. - Chani just loved Paul and supported whatever Paul wanted to become. She was supposed to be the character who helped Paul to realize he could even become the Kwisatz Haderach without losing himself. This was Villeneuve's biggest botch. Zendaya wasn't right for the role and the script wasn't right either, Chani wasn't supposed to be hurt or feel spurned and run off. The books even explain that Chani never felt jealous of Paul's political marriage to Irulan, so Villeneuve deliberately sabotaged that character. Paul's war was a pragmatic thing too. As Kwisatz he was able to perceive all the oppression in the Galaxy and realized that real reform would require a rebellion. In history, whenever rebellion becomes militant, the fascists finally wake up because they love to fight. Paul realized an oppressive system can't be ended politically so the war was the lesser evil. This was drawn from Herbert's own experience in WWII and seeing that appeasement and neutrality was only making things worse. It took force to stop the Nazis then, and for Paul it'd take force to stop the Sardukar. So if anyone got the impression that Paul turned "evil", then Villeneuve dropped the ball on that too.

[@murphy7801]

Honestly hard disagree, it's more in the spirit of dune Messiah which was written to correct the misconceptions of dune.

[@sheildingepicness]

also hard disagree on the chani bit, huge improvement on her character and agency/believability

[@githerax5303]

@@murphy7801Your comment was so well-documented and thoroughly explained! Have you ever read a book? "In the sequel, while emphasizing the actions of the *heroic* Paul Muad’Dib, as he had done in Dune, the author was also orchestrating monumental background changes and dangers involving the machinations of *the people surrounding that leader*." - From the Dune Messiah foreword by Brian Herbert. Paul was never the villain, the problem was his fanatic followers. In fact, even as Paul foresaw the necessity of his overthrow of the Emperor...: (Paul to Irulan) "Your father was and is a beast. We both know he’d lost almost all touch with the humanity he was supposed to rule and protect.” ..He regretted the subsequent inevitable religious mania. The point of Dune Messiah was Paul trying to find a way to step back out: "Chani, beloved,” he whispered, “do you know what I’d spend to end the Jihad-to separate myself from the damnable godhead the Qizarate forces onto me?” Villeneuve painted Paul in one color, the wrong color, and washed out the depth of the novels. I'm surprised, he usually does a much better job. But given the mental depth of the typical movie-going audience, maybe he did it as a mercy.

[@githerax5303]

@@sheildingepicness From Dune: Jessica: "You drank the sacred water!" she blurted. "One drop of it," Paul said. "So small...one drop." "How could you do such a foolish thing?" she demanded. "He is your son," Chani said. Jessica glared at her. A rare smile, warm and understanding, touched Paul's lips. "Hear my beloved," he said. "Listen to her, Mother. She knows." Also from Dune, having coerced the Emperor into submission: He crossed to them, stood looking down at Chani. "I know the reasons," Chani whispered. "If it must be...Usul". Paul, hearing the secret tears in her voice, touched her cheek. "My Sihaya need fear nothing, ever," he whispered. He dropped his arm, faced his mother. "You will negotiate for me, Mother, with Chani by your side. She has wisdom and sharp eyes...She will be looking through the eyes of her love for me." From Dune Messiah: She maintained a Fremen sense of good manners. Hers were more often practical questions. What interested Chani were facts which bore on the position of her man-his strength in Council, the loyalty of his legions, the abilities and talents of his allies. Her memory held catalogs of names and cross-indexed details. She could rattle off the major weakness of every known enemy, the potential dispositions of opposing forces, battle plans of their military leaders, the tooling and production capacities of basic industries. Why now, Paul wondered, did she ask about Irulan? “I’ve troubled your mind,” Chani said. “That wasn’t my intention.” “What was your intention?” She smiled shyly, meeting his gaze. “If you’re angered, love, please don’t hide it.” Paul sank back against the headboard. “Shall I put her away?” he asked. “Her use is limited now and I don’t like the things I sense about her trip home to the Sisterhood.” “You’ll not put her away,” Chani said. She went on massaging his legs, spoke matter-of-factly: “You’ve said many times she’s your contact with our enemies, that you can read their plans through her actions.” “Then why ask about her desire for a child?” “I think it’d disconcert our enemies and put Irulan in a vulnerable position should you make her pregnant.” He read by the movements of her hands on his legs what that statement had cost her. A lump rose in his throat. Softly, he said: “Chani, beloved, I swore an oath never to take her into my bed. A child would give her too much power. Would you have her displace you?” “I have no place.” “Not so, Sihaya, my desert springtime. What is this sudden concern for Irulan?” “It’s concern for you, not for her! If she carried an Atreides child, her friends would question her loyalties. The less trust our enemies place in her, the less use she is to them.” “A child for her could mean your death,” Paul said. “You know the plotting in this place.” A movement of his arm encompassed the Keep. “You must have an heir!” she husked. “Ahhh,” he said. So that was it: Chani had not produced a child for him. Someone else, then, must do it. Why not Irulan? That was the way Chani’s mind worked. Denis Villeneuve didn't need to use Chani to be upset with Paul; Paul was upset with himself: ""Chani, beloved,” he whispered, “do you know what I’d spend to end the Jihad-to separate myself from the damnable godhead the Qizarate forces onto me?”. That's why he struggled with the decision to take the Water in the first place. Chani was supposed to be Paul's support.

[@MisterTingles]

part 2 had very rushed pacing, and a film is always gonna gloss over some things. it's interesting to hear some of the comparisons, although it's easy to get overly invested or worked up. it's just a piece of fiction, people are gonna have differing interpretations, i didn't read the books, but i also didn't perceive Paul as "going evil" in the movie, he turns "higher consciousness man" and literally spells out that there's a narrow path towards victory, but for the sake of prequels it can't be spelled out how he defines victory... all the relationship setup paves the way for him to turn out benevolent, despite his big brain clairvoyant transformation, but to create some drama and potential catharsis (and as others pointed out, agency), some familiar characters go their separate ways etc etc... and in the end it turns out it was "the only narrow way" for it to turn out alright 🤷