War Thunder Has Too Much Close Air Support

[@theostrichbird9021]

as a wise man once said "Ground RB is just Air RB but with player controlled tanks"

[@spartanx9293]

To be fair air has always had an effect on ground

[@stawksop]

always has been

[@justforfun_ger7137]

Ground rb is Just Air rb but with Player Controlled FREE killen target to farm Silber lions or in rarer cases goldlions , bet .

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

@@spartanx9293 don't bring reality to the equation, a gme isn't supposed to be 100% realistic, it is supilosed to be somewat realistic but also fun, so it can bring players into it and generate $

[@MrSTUPIDBRICK]

Ground RB is just air RB with extra steps.

[@lucasgomez3283]

I think too many people are considering hard and radical counters when the best and most fair ones use incentives. If you rank up the rewards a good amount for shooting down aircraft in ground RB you wont see a shortage of SPAA and fighters looking to down aircraft. Increasing SP more for sophisticated weaponry while still keeping simple weapons (dumb bombs and rockets) cheap would help a lot or maybe even make taking out more high tech weapons have a greater SL toll through repairs or ammo cost like in tanks would also be great.

[@QuarterLifeCrysis]

I don't think aircraft add anything of worth to ground battles. If I wanted to play an air battle I would've chose to. I can't count how many times I've pushed to capture a base, fighting my way there just to have some plane fly from my base and drop a bunch of bombs on me. I understand that real battles have both, but this is a game. War is hell, and if you try and make the game more like war it'll be hell too.

[@unit7574]

I've wondered if taking away air spawns would make much of a difference. Sure it wouldn't reduce the number of planes, but it would add a bit of a longer delay before they start making an impact if they have to take off first. Might also reduce revenge CAS, since you've got more time to move. Throw in maybe making CAS more expensive to spawn in, but dedicated fighters the same as now.

[@funnymonkey7132]

i just read the tittle and i agree

[@drake000666]

I love the game but do not play it often because of the air in ground, a platoon size battle should not be overrun with air units.

[@JoviaI1]

Tell that to the Republican Guard 🤣

[@drake000666]

@@JoviaI1 That was not Platoon level air support, plus for most of the history of warthunder, ground units would hardly ever see ground support air units attacking enemy units, it was mostly used to attack units behind the lines or when they were moving.

[@bobanppvc]

Play more anti air

[@JoviaI1]

@@drake000666 Don't know why you changed your argument. The Republican Guard units were decimated by overwhelming numbers of aircraft. Platoon/Battalion, the ratio is still the same, and if you only have a platoon's worth of tanks on your team, it sounds like your team fucked up.

[@dimwittedfool]

Been doing warthunder since 2015, between the BR spread, a matchmaker that creates hideous asymmetric teams (team of timid players vs aggressive players), and an avalanche of CAS... I have just retreated to reserve tanks just so I can have a relaxing enjoyable evening playing this game. I swear that Gaijin has designed the game to make people throw their mouse against the wall, bash the keyboard to basic components, and headbutt the monitor, so you go out and buy replacements... from companies they invest in.

[@andrewvazzana383]

It's almost like no one would send tanks out into an area infested with strike aircraft

[@arandomredarmykomrade9529]

I agree that we should balance out CAS, but at the same time I also want a mode where there are ONLY tanks as I prefer my war thunder to be binary where I'm either playing air or ground not both. This could be accomplished if the current ground mode was renamed combined arms and they carried the ground title over to a true ground only mode, some will say that this divides the player base, but I think that is fine as it widens the market and can heighten player retention by giving more options, all of this is assuming that it divides the player base to begin with.

[@QuarterLifeCrysis]

I wish they would just separate them. CAS is the most frustrating thing. I don't want to choose between the game I want to play (fighting tanks) and dealing with spawn camping planes and heli's

[@arandomredarmykomrade9529]

@@QuarterLifeCrysis exactly

[@arandomredarmykomrade9529]

@J Wilt i disagree with all of this, longer queue times are better if you get a more enjoyable experience from it. Arty wouldn't need to be buffed because the way to stop campers is not interacting with them or using armor knowledge to your advantage. Certain nations that don't have good cas flocking to the new mode and leaving the others behind probably won't happen because all nations have plenty good cas and the anti cas players are pretty universal though even if this did happen i wouldn't care much. also the game's objectives being boring applies to the current ground mode as well.

[@arandomredarmykomrade9529]

@J Wilt firstly let me define "better quality matches" those would be matches in which the vast majority of players are content in either their victory or loss suffering little to no server or bug-based issues or dying in ways that could not have been prevented by a player of average to moderate skill. secondy I recommend not insulting the playerbase you may want the best for or other parties that hold the same sentiment as it draws away from civil discussion. now that we have the formalities out of the way let me get down to the brass tacks of how I would (but unless i own the company never will) plan to reform this hallscape we call a "game". right out the gate make it pay to play and grandfather in accounts of certain age, probably about a week and only give 3 days notice as to the change so no one can mooch off of it and get the game for free. starting price could be around $30.00 and possibly be raised after further improvement and staff hires/changes if necessary. then once proper funds are allocated start reworking the game modes to be more interesting and varied such as mid game weather changes and a faster progression of environment time in ground rb and ab. there could be new modes added to ground as well such as slayer, capture the flag, escorts, attack/defend, or maybe even a game mode similar to frontlines from battlefield 1 (these changes to game modes and more would facilitate a CAS free version). as for the aforementioned campers i have never had a problem fighting them they tend to be the easiest targets to kill on the ground though if people really had an issue with it staying still too long could spot you on the map. for air modes we could have the objective type vary between matches in the same way ground rb does and implement new modes accordingly and have the current one rebranded as elimination and have the AI unable to end the match while also implementing a measure against runners where if you are not within X distance of a hostile for long enough you are counted as inactive but this time is extended slightly if you are on the runway (this rule will apply to all modes). we would also have new modes such as air superiority where you get to bring your whole line up with a max of 3 respawns where you need to maintain control over three aerial objectives in the same vein as 3 cap in ground RB, we could also have team death match where both teams can bring entire line up and use the spawn point system as the regulation, there would also be a ground attack focused mode where you again use the 3 respawn system and have the objective focus be the ground targets which would put emphasis on protecting friendly ground attackers and bombers if you are in a fighter (all modes will have ground targets as an extra way to earn or play but will not contribute to objective score in modes where it is not the objective), and there could also be an attack defend variant of the aforementioned mode where one team has all the ground targets but the enemy airbase is able to be destroyed though it is much tougher than what we have seen in the past. the sim economy would also be reverted and PROPER measures against exploiting player lobbies would be taken such as decreasing the reward for killing a certain person many times in a row (meaning with few to no kills in between and only kicking in after a certain amount of kills to try to curb false positives). also br decompression which is incredibly simple, so it is insulting that gaijin has not done so yet. this is a fraction of what i would plan but i think you get the gist.

[@arandomredarmykomrade9529]

@J Wilt yeah i just have no clue what you are talking about now lol

[@yankee1376]

There's nothing realistic about having the entire Luftwaffe overhead circling six tanks. And Gaijin might realize getting carpet bombed in spawn by a PE 8 makes some of us just shut the game off and go do something not as frustrating.

[@kh2b573]

I feel like allied attackers are more of an issue than german ones🗿

[@JoviaI1]

Learn how to play a fighter or stop complaining.

[@kh2b573]

@@JoviaI1 dawg we all know this game has a CAS problem you cant boil it down to just 🤓🤓🤓 "uhm skill issue go play a SPAA or something" It's called GROUND battles for a reason smartass

[@g.williams2047]

I’m not learning to play a vehicle type I’m not interested in lol.

[@kennethmasters9329]

@@JoviaI1 you are the problem go play air rb or are your "skillz" not good enough?

[@zeke7100]

ground RB is really hard to enjoy nowadays. It's like you have to constantly play a game of hide and seek with the planes and jets above you along with the tanks on the ground. I wouldn't say it was only a top tier issue either. There are quite a lot of mid and low tier planes that are insanely overpowered with their rockets, bomb load, or even their cannons some can equip. It's gotten to a point for me where I will spawn in an SPAA as my first vehicle because I *know* the enemy is going to go cap, kill like 1-2 of my teammates, and then get into an op jet with a shit ton of bombs or long range guided munitions. The drones were "ok" when they first came in, but gayjin made a change where it's now literally impossible to get a radar lock on them. Which I suppose is more fair to them, but they literally don't even show up on the radar, even if they are flying 500m on top of me. And they are virtually impossible to visually spot now. They used to have the same spotting mechanics as planes did, where you could easily spot a plane from 20km+ away but now drones are quite literally invisible unless they are within like 1-2km of my location. And the fact that they can fire 2 OP ATGM's and then go re-arm to do it again, just seems a little unfair. Like if I knew this was going to be a thing, I wouldn't have spent any of my time grinding top tier planes and helicopters. That's how op drones are. And don't even get me started with helicopters...

[@Frozander]

That's exactly what I have been doing for about past year. I cannot enjoy ground RB while there is a Ka-50 hovering over their heli spawn blocking 50% the map to our team and forcing us to stay behind rocks until someone spawns a jet and doesn't get one shotted by vikhrs etc. It is cancer. And that's why I have been going spaa only or start with spaa nowadays.

[@arandomredarmykomrade9529]

i was playing some mid tier with a buddy earlier today and i found that it seems more people are spawning air than they used to (I haven't really played the game for a while so it was easier to notice) and i found myself having an easier time getting the spawn points for air though i was using now ordnance because i hadn't gotten any for that particular plane yet.

[@minhducnguyen9276]

SPAAs are my mandatory second spawn because that's exactly when people start spamming CAS. It can turn the game around. If I manage to shoot down a plane or two that's a few guys quitting the match because they just blew over half of their SP into nothing. But if they survive, that can easily snowball into their win the longer they're in the sky.

[@darkill245]

This has made me aware, I think now instead of abusing close air support so much I'll just spawn in spaa,Helis,or air superiority aircraft just to keep the skies free of threats for my allies

[@brandonrice4575]

Yeah I got the KA-50 so I can kill planes and helos exclusively, much better than AA

[@orbitalpotato9940]

Congratulations you're playing war thunder the way it's meant to be played.

[@darkill245]

@@orbitalpotato9940 man,i barely got 2 months ago into top tier,but in that time was enough for me to be considered as a cancer cas player,not anymore from now as i said

[@orbitalpotato9940]

@@darkill245 You have to realize that 90% of the war thunder playerbase is stupid.

[@Buttmunch420]

Lav-Ad is pretty nasty my whole team got wiped out air was full of jets and I took out 8 before some sneaky bmp shot me from behind lol

[@SonofAlbion]

Either aircraft need a substantial spawn point nerf or a pure ground mode is needed

[@Avionicx]

I think the best way to balance CAS is the following idea I made a year or so ago. Add more cap points, call them minor objectives. Have them be radar stations. At the 3 major points, have, say 2 or 3 radar stations. The more radar stations the better coverage and faster sweep. The stations all have a radius where the effect is given. All radar SPAA can "link up" with this radar and use it. Add multi unit SAMs like Patriots or S-300s, etc, that can knock out these high end attack platforms like Su-25, F-15E, Tornado, etc. that are surely coming soon. Have the airfields spawn waaaaaaay farther back and do not allow air spawns. Lessen SP cost for fighters with air to air missiles only, don't allow rocket helis to first spawn. Also add SEAD jets like the EA-6B so you can destroy the radar (which, let's say can respawn in 1 minutes and faster when tanks are holding the cap). This gives a balance to CAS and forces them to be careful while also giving more of a reason to play the objective. Wdygt?

[@cankosva2464]

I always think about some kind of AI AWACS plane that roaming around the maps for better radar coverage. But your idea is really brilliant.

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

But there's no balance to mid tier in ur idea :(

[@SharkGoesRawr]

U have never play cas have u

[@IceSki117]

I just keep pointing back to the Ground Arcade Battle system. I say that instead of the random planes let players designate which of their personal vehicles are the fighter, attacker, and bomber they can spawn, then move that system with its gameplay limitations and restrictions over.

[@smellycatgas4060]

I think the hard limit on planes and helis isnt gonna be good because people will be pissed they can’t play a thing they bought or grinded for and its gonna be everyone waiting on the vehicle menu spamming spawn on their plane and not playing

[@spartanx9293]

So they're going to act like vehicle whores in battlefield

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

Or just mass Jing out the same second they see a dead allied aircraft in kill feed

[@jonlikesplanes]

yea that is why i hated battlefeild. they just need to increase the cost to get a plane. you will definally see less of them.

[@ericgamer1061]

@@jonlikesplanes cost of a plane is already up in the sky and AA can spawn almost at no cost...

[@maggyyolokraut1941]

i have the UHT tiger i don't care remove helis all together, shit is cancer

[@valrond]

"You don't see your enemy, you just die, randomly" The Realistic Ground Battles experience. It has always happened, you still get killed by a sniper 1-2 km away that you won't see cause it has a bunch of branches in front of the tank. It only got worse with high tier planes, helicopters and now drones.

[@machucast]

Helicopters are ok... until the ka50 and its insane range A2G missiles that insta killed planes and tanks.... then it went downhill fast.

[@FalconDS9]

thats exactly how real modern tank warfare works.. you just explode. there are no fair fights anymore with modern tanks, no tank duels or something. its getting more and more senceless to send ground forces anywhere. im not sure if we realy need the most modern systems in this game..

[@dimwittedfool]

and I swear that aircraft get ULQ graphics to more easily spot ground targets at distance.

[@valrond]

@@dimwittedfool Yeah, ULQ has plagued RGB since they came out in 2014. There are several reasons why I barely play RGB, but they most important is that of getting killed without seeing who killed you. I mostly just play aircraft, tanks, boats and ships from time to time.

[@treycotter]

@@FalconDS9 The good thing though is that it’s a video game and we can balance the game without always having to keep realism. They’ve already sacrificed realism in so many areas, what’s the point in having air rb in ground rb

[@pebbles9973]

Literally everyone with at least half a brain knew this update would make GRB even worse, it's been in a horrible state for a good while now but we still have brainlets that go "bRo JuSt SpAwN sPaA". Air vehicles need to be limited to 3 per team + 2 for drones and they should not be spawnable in the first 5-6 minutes of the match. Limiting the death camera to only showing the general direction of where the shell that killed you came from would also help with revenge bombing.

[@jasonhuiting5193]

Raising the rewards for plane kills would help a lot. Playing anti cas is fun and the best counter to cas, but the SL and RP rewards are trash.

[@dierare]

this so much. especially when a low tier plane gets huge rewards when it kills high tier tanks, but if you spawn your SPAA you get like 80-120 RP for it and after that you're out of targets

[@QuarterLifeCrysis]

That's fair but most of us only spwn in SPAA as a last resort. I know I never do. I want to have a chance against other tanks. Being SPAA feels like a waste every time. Even assuming you do get the kill on the plane giving your team trouble another plane will spawn before long and you'll probably have been one shot by a random tank from across the map.

[@btl1994]

This is why I've always advocated for AI targets in ground RB since, 1 we already have that in air RB and 2 it gives CAS players something else to attack. Right now the only target they have is other players which is why I see 4-5 planes in ground RB. Now I know infantry is never going to be implemented like say armored warfare so the best I can hope for is ai AA and SAM emplacements around the play area to force aircraft to target those sites first to gain air superiority. Because it won't matter how much we increase spawn cost if you're still getting blown up at spawn early and mid game

[@enterchannelname8981]

Seconded, and spawn the CAS on the ground to make it take longer to get to the battlefield (including Drones, let SPAA have a chance against drones) Maybe even make it a reward in the same way as drones, so if you get enough SP, you can get a longer-range SAM site outside the battlefield, or control a dozen Anti-aircraft large caliber long-range cannons at lower tiers

[@cyanide7270]

Would it surprise you to know that GRB DID used to have AI tanks in them way back when? right up to Tigers and Pershings. Course, this is Gaijin, so they removed them after about a year or so

[@btl1994]

@@cyanide7270 I do remember those days, i remember ai aircraft too that were really tanky against AA for some reason but I agree instead of working to make their terrible AI work they pulled a gaijin and removed it. Sucks since the mixture PvE and PvP elements to make these battles look massive is drew me into the game in the first place.

[@btl1994]

@@enterchannelname8981 some AA sights like the spiderweb sight for AA players would help too since they're modeled on the actual SPAA but for whatever reason we don't get them. I second these changes as well since it'll reduce revenge bombings quite a bit.

[@b4ptist]

one of the real issues here is that there is no where else to use such cool planes that have been added, want to use the buccaneer in air RB? well enjoy straight line deck flying and bombing bases until you catch a missile. there is no need for precision munitions in air RB so people want to use them in ground RB. Also air RB for props is so slow and boring, some of the best dogfights I've had have been in ground RB and it only took 3 mins to have instead of 15-20 in ARB. If ARB was restructured to be interesting for these top tier cas planes you might see less in GRB but right now its the only place to use CAS.

[@b4ptist]

The other issue is that CAS in general is just too cheap to spawn, my G-LYNX at 10.0 fully loaded with 8x hellfire 4x stinger and thermals, cost like 600 sp or quite often less. It is ridiculous, the amount of power you get for SP cost is way too high for CAS. some nations also simply do not have good high tier AA systems, also the grind is so long and arduous who wants to grind AA tree? I mean in my 10.0 brit line up i dont even get an AA The star streak is at 10.3! so what do I do? other that fly fighter sorties trying to protect the ground.

[@jonlikesplanes]

@@b4ptist yea i agree because i really enjoy cas and think they should add more options for it in air rb. they should increase the sp for ground planes so instead of getting 1 kill to get a plane is should be more like 3 to 4 kills to get one

[@kingderpington6082]

@@jonlikesplanes I def think air rb needs a rework, I enjoy cas in ground, but I dont play helis at all. I think for me its just not fun which makes me believe if air rb became fun Im probably not in an extreme minority, which would go to air rb. The other thing part about planes costing too little sp is true, but some cas planes are super expensive to spawn in. And I think it is a result of how they weigh the sp from the plane itself and then a secondary cost of a plane's payload. I think if they changed the spawns so the sp cost came solely from spawning the plane and loadouts didnt have a given sp, it would make it easier to find a higher but not unreachable number.

[@Accu91]

I really like CAS. I played it a lot during the grind up, I think it makes WT quite unique in a positive way. On the other hand, in high tier RB, it's quite complicated. I get sniped out of the sky 12km away when I'm in an A-10, that I grinded for myself. I on the other hand, have not yet the ADATS - so, I have to wait until a helicopter decides to come into a 3km range where I can shoot at it. While I have seen, that the KA-50s and KA-52s together with the Z-models from China are screwing nearly anything within 8km range without being touched. So yeah, make it more rewarding to play AA. That would be nice.

[@frog56414]

I think a clever way to alleviate spawn camping would be to put a CWS goalkeeper thing in the spawn that shoots down aircraft and missiles in a certain radius

[@strategicperson95]

Then just have the closest helicopter pad AA actually do damage again.

[@alexpayne2662]

Or just make not-shit maps less than a kilometre long with open spawns. But we all know, that's not gonna happen

[@jakob4413]

I'm quite new to WT and I have only a little bit of Low/mid-tier expierience. My Idea is to add stationed SAMs to top tier. With that you have to focus on hitting those first/guarding them and you have to deal with the missile. Gajin could add some nice new features with them like caputring them or repairing them etc.

[@jonlikesplanes]

i think they should increase the sp cost of planes.

[@FFan-ki5ks]

That's a really good idea 💡.

[@SharkGoesRawr]

@@jonlikesplanes won't hurt anyone who likes cas

[@jonlikesplanes]

@@SharkGoesRawr yea true

[@thomasmartin8466]

They should add some sort of spawn protection system like you find at airfields

[@lukemasters7498]

There is but its not very long

[@thomasmartin8466]

@@lukemasters7498 ik but like a ai sam

[@ThommyofThenn]

Yea it's only saved me one time in 300 days of gameplay

[@ddiggle5897]

@@lukemasters7498 And it stops when you start moving. I think the fix is a literal no damage zone and box off spawns. Make it so it's no ideal or impossible to shoot in or out of spawn from the ground so that players need to leave to engage but so long as they are in the zone they don't take damage. Spawn camping would be more watching the exits of enemy spawn rather than driving in to spawn and blowing up everyone as the spawn and drones and copters couldn't spawn kill. just a thought

[@davidtheiler562]

I think it would be cool if we had some sort of sam stations on the battlefield.

[@jonathankuykendall7622]

I think the main thing we need is bigger/better maps. As technology gets better getting spawn killed is just inevitable. Even before the drone update I would regularly get spawn killed by tanks. We need longer maps with more significant terrain features, verticality, and something other that just capture the point. IMO that would make each game more and more unique and the games wouldn't just start to blend together.

[@jonathankuykendall7622]

Another thing I forgot to add is that I think ground RB gets better if we were actually able to communicate with our team. For instance when I die I'll ask my friend on discord what kind of threats are up so I can know what to bring out to deal with them. But with chat restrictions it's almost impossible.

[@theuplander9127]

Here’s my easy solution: No limit on ground vehicle respawns in ground rb (no need for backups or added spawn points for same vehicle respawn). Air, helis, drones have same system we got now (only one spawn unless you have backups). I think this will incentivize more people to play tanks, play the objective, less of a pain in the ass when you die to CAS, and still give CAS players the ability to fly without limiting what’s in the air. TLDR - give tanks CoD respawn mechanics and make CAS like CoD killstreaks.

[@youwotmate7705]

That actually doesn't sound bad. never heard that one before. I think there are plenty of good solutions, really not sure why Gaijin seems determined to ignore every issue the community present to them

[@dierare]

any solution that removes something that you can spend money on (backups tickets) will never get implemented and you know it.

[@javlarm8]

The unfortunate answer is that Gaijin wont do it because the grind would be easier ie less need for a premium account and premium vehicles. The only one gaining anything from short matches and the get-killed-once-back-to-hangar-mentality is Gaijin. Short matches means less activity time, less use for your boosters, less rp/sl per hour, more time in loadscreens/queues. There’s a reason rp gain is on diminishing returns and it’s quite simply that you’re ”not supposed” to grind quickly. Standoff CAS and drones are perfect for gaijin. To get that MIG-27 you need to grind for months (maybe weeks if you no-life it) even with premium and a SU-7BMK/SU-25K. Then your games in the MIG-27 is one of two options. 1. Spawn in and get insta-fragged by an ITO90 because you didnt do a 180 and climb to 15.000m. 2. Get 4-5 kills that are more or less impossible to counter. In either case gaijin wins. If you get taken out you likely dont have any spawnpoints left and your game is finished. If you have free reign you likely make 2-3 ppl on the enemy team go back to the hangar. Drones are just this without all the hassle of playing ARB for months.

[@miles8363]

Now in-game, my radar can't see these Mig27Ks spawn in the air, and later they are on top of my head even though I am in a FlaRakRad.

[@TolerablyInterested]

I was playing my flarakrad and ADATS, you literally can't even radar detect the mig 27 and its ridiculous, at this point there is little point choosing spaa, you may as well just spawn and die until the mig is out of bombs. But wait, as soon as he's out of bombs he'll just j out and respawn with a KA52/MI28NM and smack you with a vikhr.

[@OmegaMK]

you have to change the radar search radius, the AA can search further but only problem is your search angle. its like 30 degrees up. which is not enough

[@miles8363]

@@OmegaMK I knew that already.

[@SharkGoesRawr]

Use ur eyes

[@ionicabanea6025]

i ve seen this before and i ll say it here. maybe add a no plane tank rb mode, maybe without spaa too, maybe from a certain tier planes in that particular mode aren t allowed so let s say from 8.0 onwards, because the way i see it gun AA's are really useless until someone already died, because you re not gonna be sniping jets from 3-4 kilometers out with any kind of gun aa(unless you have proxy shells) unless they re afk, so you have to wait until they close in, at which point someone already was probably gunned down, bombed, rocketed, whatever. As long as planes can out range SPAA's, imo there s a problem.

[@luciusachron679]

A good solution would be to add capturable hard points on the maps that are like long range sam sites. You take the hard point and an ai controlled sam system clears the air. 2 or 3 of these points on each map to make it to where one side can't dominate the AA, and the AA doesn't have to be perfect 100% kill, but could make using cas significantly more dangerous in high tier games

[@jacksonrhodes1500]

Just played 3 10.7 ground RB battles. All of my deaths were either drones or helicopters….. in EVERY match. I alt f4 right out of war thunder

[@jonlikesplanes]

i die to tanks way more than air. i guess that is just me.

[@itsrass1378]

You must be play America💀 Russia has op cas from 9.7 to 11.7 now. Russia has the most op top tier line up tbh. I get 1 kill and Ka 52 time or su 25 time lol.

[@madalinbuzdugan176]

Did you spawn in a AAA in any of those matches? If no, then you fuckin deserve it.

[@petrkdn8224]

The way I see it as a mainly ground RB player, is that people don't use their AAs.... they spawn them but they load AP belts.. to kill tanks? Gaijin should remove all AP ammo from AAs so they can do their job

[@jerryprovolt1340]

I think they ought to make it harder to get aircraft in ground barrels like five kills something like that cuz it's getting out of hand and maybe just tank battles only because they have airplanes only

[@summerCLV]

bro i need 700 points for my german su only to get camped by 3 tungis or whatever the fuck... sam's should be more expensive how is it that u can take my 700sp without me getting a kill and u camp with sam 70/100sp the whole game :D

[@Ayy12345]

Yeah I agree with tank only battles. But a lot of wallet Boyz will cry, and I'm an "old guard" playing since 2013. Or hell they could fix maps and spawning so it's not just instant spawn camping after the first five minutes.

[@theScottishKoala]

Will it get worse from here? *thinks of F-16C with six Mavericks and thermal targeting pod… Yes… yes I think it will

[@bigoof1105]

This is why every team needs that one guy in a fighter with dedicated anti air loadout to camp the enemy airspawn.

[@FFan-ki5ks]

In my opinion ground and air battles should be merged into one game mod. Players would play only planes or only tanks. That way there would be more fighters with no cas ability whose main goal would be to destroy enemy cas. Tanks would be important because only tanks would be able to complete objectives (for example capturing a point would only be possible with tanks).

[@mudslide-of-the-mudwing1569]

I like it this one right here gaijin

[@Cam64viper]

Ground enduring confrontation please gaijin

[@smippycis6285]

So practically like SQB? SQB rules: GRB but 8v8, single spawn (Like ARB), max 4 aircraft/team.

[@mudslide-of-the-mudwing1569]

@@smippycis6285 no

[@mudslide-of-the-mudwing1569]

@@smippycis6285 more like 32v32 but some are dedicated air and others are dedicated tanks

[@ivancsontos7011]

Give us a tank ec style game with multiple fighting zones on a single map, a mechanic for howitzers/artillery vehicles to utilize their range for long range indirect fire and so forth with planes helis allowed, then keep grb for ground only

[@skryre1337]

make it a choice, there should be a RB tanks only mode, so that people who dont ever play aircrafts can go and play without and risk of planes or choppers in the match. and those who want to play ground (air) RB can still play the usual mode

[@michaelstjohn6086]

100%

[@charliezw3287]

Why would anyone choose the combined mode?

[@x_Degurechaff_x]

And that is precisely what won't ever happen. Why?... Money

[@seanmarshall5463]

I don’t think they should nerf CAS, because after all, it is realistic to the capabilities of these planes, they should just double or more the amount of spawn points it takes to spawn a plane

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

Double seems like a nice idea, what's the difference of CAS and a nuke? They both obliterate enemy team

[@jonlikesplanes]

yes totaly agree. people suggest unrealistic limitiations for the game which ruins the game

[@wilbis4588]

I think most of it comes down to map design, all the maps are small and you know exactly where the spaa is gonna be.

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

U think wrong Maps have partial guilt here too, but the main problem is the AA vs CAS Batle, there's not an AA update (at least top-tier, and copy paste doesnt count, *u got it Canadian ADATS?* ) in years, and also planes and helis are too damn cheap, they should all be above 1000 sp to spawn, maybe 800 base + some hundreds with ordenance, like 400 or 500 for full ordenance and 200 for small ordenance, and 0 for nothing/only flares

[@kingderpington6082]

@@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS thats triple the current spawn cost, and I think its way too high, at most 1k sp for everything would be good

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

@@kingderpington6082 1k spawn points is a light tank killing 2 tanks or 3 assists, not enough high, 1200 is good

[@kingderpington6082]

@@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS thats not 2 kills or 3 assists lol, its 3 kills or 5 assists

[@sankaplays3098]

@@kingderpington6082 No, thats staying alive for 10 minutes ish getting a kill and an assist, help on the cap and boom you're there if you include one or two crits.

[@CharliMorganMusic]

If you want to play games where the things that kill you are visible, then play air, arcade, or naval.

[@dovahkiin3526]

I think a decent balance to the drones would be to only be able to spawn one if you don't have any other air vehicles in your lineup

[@DragoneyeVII]

Bruh thats already who would be spawning in a drone. At this point is cheaper to spawn in a fully loaded A-10 than the drone and the A-10 is far more deadly than the drone.

[@nathanhall2012]

Honestly I don't think CAS is the issue. I think it comes down to map design and the game modes. The game currently is: drive to objective, hold a majority of objectives, and defend those positions. That's it. That is every single game mode. The reason people rush spawns, camp (or lay ambush when you aren't complaining about it), immediately play CAS is because the game rewards that. This isn't a player issue. This is a stale game play and poor, uninspired map design issue.

[@bias_remover7229]

The main point from my perspective why top end CAS is so cancerous is the Powercreep constantly shifting. You are ever USELESS or OP, nothing in between. Think back to when Helicopters where first added, they totally ruined GFRB since there where no ways to counter them since nearly all SPAAGs only had ~2,5 km Range. Then things changed, SPAAGs got a range increase, Lead radar, and SAM systems. For a good while playing any sort of Airborne vehicles was nearly suicidal. Next shift, Buff to Hellfires, the plaque that's the KA-50, and the introduction of CCIP and guided munitions. A single KA-50 can overwhelm multiple SAMs just by spamming the Vikirs and fusing the SAMs mid air. The guided weapons on planes where not even this problematic, but when Gaijin Reworked ground based Radars anf fucked up the spotting system, you have a grand total of 3 seconds to notice a MIG-27 spawn and climb above your Radar coverage. And if you know the fucker is there but you can't see him on Radar, you have to find him in the entire sky ~90 km² with your Eyeball MK.I whilst taking cover from Tanks and potentially other aerial threads. The fucking Drones just take the piss here since they spawn right on top of you, above Coverage and Point-and-Click weapon systems.

[@Frozander]

I had no issues with cas as an spaa player until the drones came. You can handle stupid cas players easily and that's how it should be. Stupid people should not be entitled to 6 free kills. Just because you base rushed spawned a cas jet. If you fly in a straight line towards the battlefield you will be deleted, you are not allowed to cry about it. The drones are actually stupid, anyone defending them are braindead. They literally spawn above you as a tiny grey dot, so it is basically impossible to spot in night missions (which are about 40-50% of all top tier matches nowadays). So most of the time you need to look up and watch the trail of a hellfire to notice them and it is too late at that point. I know they will get nerfed, Gaijin know they are OP. Like every patch they release op garbage and let it destroy the game experience for at least 6 months before nerfing it to ground. I wouldn't be surprised if they forced drones to take off from the airfield in the next patch.

[@perturabothelordofiron7531]

well the snail wants to be realistic so every airfield has a prober longe range SAM or in other words: everthing in a 50km+ radius gets immediately shot down there is very little close AA nowerdays other than for example stinger-missels because most threats would/should be shot down by way bigger "stronger" dedicated SAM-systems

[@x_Degurechaff_x]

Ok lets go realistic. Im picking up my f35 with jdaams.

[@perturabothelordofiron7531]

@@x_Degurechaff_x fair engough but you start from your airfield (realistic distance) so you have to fly for at least 30min to get in range of anything I don´t want to argue over anything, I just want to show, that the snails argument with realism is in this case very debatable and open for manipulation

[@x_Degurechaff_x]

@@perturabothelordofiron7531 true

[@veritusahriman9720]

completely agree, this issue especially affects nations with lackluster 11-ish AA platforms. Next update should be hard focused on extremely modern AA, with BRs over 11.0

[@moopynova]

the issue is the AA is is so strong cas only brings the 10km range missiles etc cos any rockets or dumb bombs are useless cos you get killed by the AA before you can get in range to use it. thats why tankers hate cas cos its all 10km away missiles tankers get no change to shoot back at the jets/helis cos they are sat so far away so its feels like shit cos you cant even see this guy thats 10km away blasting you and he will never come close cos the AA will insta kill him. and given half the AA are mouse guided so flare and chaff dont do anything its more reason to jsut sit on that 10KM max range all game

[@veritusahriman9720]

@@moopynova That is the point. CAS and drone missiles just outrange 80% of AA anyways, and AA players are horribly overtasked already since they have to contend with helicopters drones strike aircraft and fighters with ground strike capabilities. Consider this as well: no nation has top tier squadron vehicles OR premium packs that are ground AA. This means that every wallet warrior ape in your matches are utterly useless against enemy air elements as they usually suck too much to get enough points to spawn a premium air superiority fighter, let alone use it properly. I get that planes need to use long range munitions to not get swatted by anti air but ground RB is GROUND RB, not a McDonalds ballpit for CASholes.

[@moopynova]

@@veritusahriman9720 id like a game mode for just tanks would be cool BUT the argument that Ground RB is ground RB is fucking shit GROUND battles HAVE NEVER been fought with tanks alone this is the weakest argument you could possibly have. Especially given helicopters drones etc are all made with the express purpose of ground attack/surveillance you don't send helis or tanks into air RB cos they don't do anything there cos they were made to fight ground targets and ground targets were then made to counter them. also 6/10 nations and the 5 of them being the most popular nations that are actually played have AA with 10-12km range. the attack drones were a mistake as they spawn above the battle and can get revenge kills within a few seconds but jets/helis are all easily countered by top tier AA to the point if you fly said vehicles it can feel unfair how easy it is for the mouse guided missiles to kill you as counter measures don't affect their tracking at all. the issue is and always will be the lack of any structure to teams everyone plays for themselves and doesn't give a shit about the team as a whole. if WT players played like they do on games like valorant or league of legends they would suck ass cos they cant formulate a well rounded composition of vehicles to cover all their needs -mbts light tanks AA- they all pick random shit and just rush for spawn camping. this issue will probably never be fixed as its an issue within the players and not the game and can be seen especially in games like league of legends where lower level worse players cant make a team composition that works and they get abused and lose all the time because of it but pro team hire entire teams of professionals to optimise the compositions of characters(vehicles in WT case) to play to cover all their bases not to leave themselves with blatant vulnerabilities that can be used against them.

[@BeerSougion]

@@veritusahriman9720 If AA is overtasked it is because not enough players spawned in AA.

[@veritusahriman9720]

@@BeerSougion You're completely right. That is a key problem, and the sad truth is that most people in top tier dont HAVE an AA to spawn since they paid their way up there or are using squadron vehicles. 90% of my matches with top tier Japan are ruined by clowns with 1 and done leo 2 PLs, T80UK, or M1a1 AIM.

[@olekzajac5948]

OK, as a person who likes realism, I'm obviously an opponent of removing or limiting CAS. So I have some ideas for you how I think it could be adressed: - First is to introduce C-RAM systems somewhere behind the ground map, but close enough to protect spawns from missiles, rockets and bombs (maybe they could be placed at the forward helicopter bases - they seem to be in a suitable range). - The other three ideas are way more radical, but I think they could work if implemented properly: - slightly lower the amount of spawn points for aircraft so that it's easier for the people to spawn in them (yes, that's exactly what I said, please read to the end of my comment before jumping to conclusions), - triple (or quadruple, or even more - I don't know how much more should it be, I thin it should be a lot more) the amount of SL and RP for destroying an aircraft with a ground vehicle to encourage players to play SPAA vehicles as their main choices (support roles are important after all), - since modern air defence is layered and interconnected, introduce a radar coverage of the battlefield - those radars should be destructible builtings/vehicles protected by AA and C-RAM batteries (they should be possible, but incredibly hard to destroy) - this would allow all those SPAAs which don't have search radars, but were supposed to work as a part of the system, to have such system. So, in short, my idea is to make CAS just a bit more common, but at the same time - make it way easier and way more rewarding to counter. P.S. Please, I'd like to have a civilised discussion in the comments, not people getting angry because how could I ever propose lowering the spawn cost for aircrafts.

[@yankee1376]

Maybe it would be helpful to have bot SAM sites outside the player tank area of the map that can engage Aircraft. Air players would have other things to do and other threats to track. But overall there's just too many aircraft up at one time

[@keithbaker1951]

I've noticed that the drones do NOT show up on the SPAA radar! I have to physically search for them and they are mostly silent.. I have to lock onto them manually as well.

[@LEFTY073]

any aircraft that is above the search cone of the SPAA's radar will not show up (Some SPAA only have a 30 degree cone), the easy way to fix it would be moving the drones spawn zone to the same place that the aircrafts spawn zone is.

[@orbitalpotato9940]

That's normal . The drones spawn above your radar search cone so your radar isnt even pointing at them.

[@dimwittedfool]

@@orbitalpotato9940 by design just to piss you off.

[@orbitalpotato9940]

@@dimwittedfool No that's how it works irl.

[@dimwittedfool]

@@orbitalpotato9940 no they take off from in airfield somewhere and some fella 12k miles away sits in an easy-chair sipping a coffee waiting for another fella to tell him to fire at a wedding party

[@rstoddart5727]

I have been grinding tank tier for ages, not always have the funds to pay myway through, and its become even longer to progress, i sometimes play lower tier to remember what fun was before higher tier became insane, its great when your ontop but sucks when everyone is a air king!

[@fakenate9871]

My issue with cas is if you get it though the tech tree it's fine in my opnion you still got to grind modifications for guided ordnance, flares, etc. But all these top tier premiums and squadrons vehicles being cas is just making the issue horrible and helis with the grind being so painfully impossible the only option is to buy a premium heli. I like the idea of a shield around tank spawns that should excludes spaa so they aren't invincible to just counter the cas spawn camping.

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

Squadron needs to be grinded too u know? Its just a normal tech tree vehicle, but u just need to unlock that rank and be in a squadron to unlock it

[@andrewmacias-brown1818]

@@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS you can buy them with golden lions and not grind.

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

@@andrewmacias-brown1818 u can also buy tech tree with GE, u just don't see anyone do it, free RP isn't a problem, cuz ppl with high ge amount will also have high free rp

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

@@andrewmacias-brown1818 also I correct myself, it's a bit better than tech tree cuz u don't need to unlock the br, they are avaliable to research since the begining

[@kingderpington6082]

idk why people separate tech tree and premium, ive seen as many people with premiums as I have seen people ge their way to top tier tech tree.

[@pancake4061]

Decrease rewards (SP and SL) for ground kills while in an aircraft and have a higher win multiplier but higher loss penalty for actions in aircraft to encourage players to actually use them for CAS, and not just picking off random players, and add a counter to the respawn screen so people are more aware that they're going to be the 7th player on their team who can't capture bases. Also, a more modern AA system, like a more distant radar installation that feeds data to SPAA, or more vehicles like the Bradley Linebacker with auxiliary SAM systems.

[@falconoflight2574]

Have slowly overtime shaped my playstyle around it - almost solely play SPAA or air superiority planes in Ground RB - has definitely hampered my grind , but find that matches go much better

[@JoviaI1]

At least someone has learned how to play the game properly. Besides, the variability of play makes the grind way less grindy.

[@DrClef_1]

@@JoviaI1 did you really just say that? "Play the game properly"? So when the game forces to play you in one certain style and negates all others (which is a vast majority), thats not only boring, but like the guy said above, is really ineffective grind-wise. You people shock me

[@JoviaI1]

@@DrClef_1 Did you really just complain about variable gameplay being the game "forcing you to play in a certain style"? It's like saying "Battlefield sucks because all I want to do is play a sniper and the game makes me play all the classes". Honestly, you're pathetic. Go play a WoT if you want a tank only game. WT was created FROM DAY ONE to be a combined warfare game. If you want to grind the painful way, just playing one tank over and over until you break your keyboard from stress, that's your fault.

[@hxppythxughts8531]

@@DrClef_1 that's what happens when someones been playing war thunder since 2012, they think they're superior to everybody else

[@DrClef_1]

@@hxppythxughts8531 i mean i've been in it since 2017 and CAS really became a problem in roughly late 2019-2020. And ofc these old mfs found a way to fight with everybody cause of it

[@tommasogubiani3768]

An the worst thing about that is that aircrafts are useless in most cases in ground RB infact the majority of the time people spawn when they have been killed early and making a cuple of easy kills doesen't change the game the fact is that planes don't cap points (very rarely they do but is not common) and if there are a lot of planes in your team it means that you are getting steamrolled.

[@michaelpiggott7840]

In real life you would enter a battle from the reserve lines, at this position there would be artillery and aa support. Something firing towards the spawn point, tanks or drones or aircraft should be targeted by AI artillery and AA. I have said this before to deal with spawn campers and it applies to whatever vehicle these people use. If their vehicile was destroyed by the game for attacking people who just spawned in at any BR the focus of the game would change back to doing the objective. CAS would then focus on the capture points along with the ground battle.

[@BeerSougion]

In a game like Hell Let Loose the game starts with a 2 minute positioning timer. Everyone running and driving to a starting position. Guess in WT players don't have the patience for that. And above all, Gaijin wants vehicles to get destroyed faster because at the end of the day that us what is draining SL from the game.

[@nikone7957]

Honestly, they should just add more SPAA, especially to minor nations. As a Japan main, there is no way for me to do anything againts CAS. I mean, type87 just doesnt work in top tier, and type93, i didnt unlocked it yet, but with it not being able to do anything to ground, i guess it gets real boring real fast. Id love to play some coold spaa that can deal with air and ground targets to some extend.

[@ImmortalSugimoto792]

People forget that up until the last few updates fixed wing CAS was pretty ineffective at top tier. Now the pendulum has swung with certain CAS planes having an advantage. But when more advanced SAM systems are added the advantage will swing again.

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

Top tier is unfair by default, tech advanced too much Now how we gonna fix mid tier?

[@thepilotman5378]

Yeah. I feel like War Thunder is lacking missions with AB players where you have to dodge AAA with other players and hit targets, or later SAMs. Add to AirRB so us CAS boys don't have to sign on to tank battles to have fun. Basically add strike missions like they already have, but make the threat of AAA fire more severe, and flight skill and experience required to fly them. The current missions have only the threat of other aircraft

[@x_Degurechaff_x]

Because gaijin can implement an AI vehicle that is smarter than a lobotomized rat.

[@WurstWesen82]

Some may have already noticed, but Gaijin is not advertising new maps for "Ground RB", but for "Combined battles". And there won't be a pure tank mode, because they know that most players would choose this mode to avoid being killed by planes and drones all the time.

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

The fukin greediness strikes again

[@thatchris1626]

the idea that you have to play AA as a means of counter is stupid. I came to play the tank game to shoot tanks, everyone here came to play the tank game to shoot tanks. You basically drop your ability to play as a tank killer (In most cases) just so you might let the other people have fun. And that is if you don't get focused first.

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

I wanna grind and enjoy my heavies, not just research 150k points just to stay as a collection tank

[@ScrandySquad]

Merge Ground and Air RB. Could make the battles more interesting, Less ground and pound because the fighters will punish them.

[@x_Degurechaff_x]

What will happen if you do: Air rb players will just collectively agree on a new furball pattern and ignore the ground completely. Most ppl in air rb play to dogfight and bvr players not to be bothered by little things on the ground.

[@williammontgrain6544]

Thank you Tanky. It's so tiring when I bring up an issue I have with one vehicle or other, and the response is "skill issue" or "get gud" by someone that wants to sound like a Chad or something instead of offering helpful advice. Let me tell you wannabes something. A real Chad, a real Alpha, gives advice and uplifts those they interact with because they want to be surrounded, tested, and challenged by other Chads, other Alphas. How do you think they became competent enough to be considered a Chad to begin with? It wasn't through disrespect of the efforts and struggles of those around them, but quite the opposite.

[@jaidenclark6311]

If there’s enemy cas spawn a plane shoot it down, or spawn an anti air. You just gotta take the right vehicles instead of spawning a light tank or open top while cas is up

[@Drakey_Fenix]

CAS player spotted.

[@marekvojta9648]

My words

[@ryanh2621]

How exactly can we shoot them down if we're being bombed before we can fire a shot

[@user625FNDA]

Imagine playing tanks just to play spaa and sit somewhere trying to spot planes. Fun right?

[@marekvojta9648]

@@user625FNDA Imagine being so selfish that you ignore well being of your team and instead of you play solo...

[@jonoldham9877]

I think the counter is to spawn in a fighter and kill the CAS planes. This is my favorite way to play ground RB. Spawn in a fighter, climb, scan for enemies.

[@JustFun-tv5er]

It's gotten to the point where I almost only die to cas of some kind, whether its the helicopters, jets or now drones. There's far too much and its way too easy to spawn. Very often I see a player spawning in a ka50 or an equivalent 5 minutes into the match after only getting like 1-2 assists and a capture. There should not be such powerful cas that early into the game. An argument is that we have so much AA that has more than enough range for most targets, however if you have even the slightest idea what you're doing in either a jet or helicopter, almost every single aa in the game is super easy to avoid. The only other counter is spawning in a jet or helicopter of your own which then literally just makes it air rb. I've been in several matches where bear in mind the game is almost full, and half or more of my teammates are in an aircraft of some kind. It's getting really annoying and just straight up unenjoyable to even play a single match of high tier ground rb recently.

[@PilgrimBangs]

This is why I don't play above tier 6 WWII. Still I die at least once by CAS if not twice most rounds. On slower tanks by the time you get to objective B there's air planes already attacking. WT???

[@mikebauer6917]

Really? I don’t see how you can say low to mid-tier CAS has effective ground counters. How many PE8s have you downed with your roof MG? I think I’m fairly good at SPAA. But even my favorite M16, which has almost 1000 plane kills, has a KD with planes of just 1.5. Sure, I’ve have had a few AA aces, even a 7 plane kill match, but most often I’d say that I’m almost certain to be killed or highly damaged by one plane while I’m busy shooting down another most of the time. There are just too many planes, with too much visibility of the ground, and too little effective cover on the ground, for SPAA to do much. Plus, many SPAA can’t do anything against high flying bombers as their rounds don’t even reach that high and far (before bomb release).

[@chriselliott8830]

I really love your channel but I also love War Thunder, So when I say this I mean it with the most respect of the game; The matches need to change they need to have some kind of better objectives maybe even like multiple spawn points with a multiple maps put together something like that

[@Wolf-Nyan]

I can’t remember the last time I played an MBT it top tier. I almost exclusively play SPAA or an AA focused helicopter because every time I play tanks, I just get bombed after killing one or two enemies. In low/mid tier it’s better since rooftop HMGs are effective, but there’s still a lot of planes and my lineups usually have at least 2 SPAA to deal with stuff like DO-335 spam. I haven’t touched ~9.7 in a year either since that’s the sweet spot of planes being objectively better/outranging than the majority of SPAA, so its just spawn-bomb simulator.

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

Mid tier is just enough cencerous to complain, there should be an increase in sp for planes, it's not hard, gaijin literally increased drones sp in a day, how long would it take to increase all planes sp by a bit and all ordenance by alot?

[@Gears-2]

ive always said they should add a tank only mode

[@J.i.M.9604]

I would love to have a tank only gamemode. I'm tired of getting bombed as soon as I respawn.

[@Anti-Villain-Wolf]

With any war game there should always be a counter to a vehicle, otherwise you get everyone in the same vehicle doing the same thing. As far as campers go, maybe there should be an ability to destroy buildings and terrain, and cause damage to tanks if debris falls on them. Something like rockslides, would be really fun to use and watch happen

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

And wats CAS counter? Don't fukin say AA, it isn't rn

[@SharkGoesRawr]

@@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS fighters.

[@papayabun4513]

I think they need to limit how many can be in the air with bombs, Air-to-Ground weapons, etc. This means you don't necessarily get stopped from playing your favorite aircraft, just limit only to Air-to-Air roles if your team already has enough CAS.

[@x_Degurechaff_x]

Someone with an idea that doesn't break the game or gaijin's wallet. Refreshing but probably would need a lot of tweaks.

[@123TheCloop]

Hard limiting aircraft is a bad idea for 2 reasons, 1) this will desensitise players from grinding SPAA/SAM knowing that there will be less CAS and less need for SAM's, especially when at some BRs (especially top tier) a single SPAA/SAM can very much deal with a multiple threat CAS option, so if you limit aircraft, you better be prepared to limit SAMs/SPAA as a counter because otherwise CAS will become too dominated and many players move away from the mode and gaijin lose both players and money. 2) same reason as above but reversed, you limit CAS then EVERYONE will be fighting over who can spawn (so a first come first serve basis) and if CAS becomes harder to play by having hard limits, well you have just thrown away most of the idea of selling premium aircraft (why buy a premium if your gunna get hard capped 90% of your matches) and for some players on the lower skill spectrum, they might never get to spawn one because they might not be good at the game to get SP stupidly quickly. spawn protection from drones......... yikes what a horrible idea. all I will say to this is, watch A LOT of tanks/SPAA/SAMs camp the living shit out of there own spawn knowing full well they will be immune from CAS. I dont even need to dive deeper in why this will probs force gaijin to adjust economy to compensate for the fact more RP is being earned on a lob sided system. Why do you keep bringing up more modern equipment? most AGMs currently in the game are the maximum range that even modern stuff achieve to date, AGM-65s and a few others (maybe HARMs and Spikes) are basically the maximum you will get out of any AGM based weapon system to date, guided bombs unless its JDAMs with GPS guidance which can do 20+ miles on a glide approach but the rest are still relatively short range (maybe 10 miles top) most modern combat equipment for A2G capabilities hasnt advanced to any substantial standards since the 70s-90s so what we see is basically what will be mostly present even if gaijin added more modern equipment, heck even SPIKES, if we go of the latest one (Spike NLOS only has a range of about 15 miles) AGM-65s are not far off that range, so im not entirely sure what your expecting with modern jets and being able to ground strike from 50+ miles away, the only stupidly long range A2G system is the AGM 158 JASSM but that is not only stupid and 100% classified tech and gaijin most certainly will not add that in (even DCS wont add this in)

[@TSF71]

Awesome ❤. The su25 has been the final CAS plane I think will be added because the amount of spaa I’ve seen

[@btoiscool]

A6 otw

[@spartanx9293]

Oh you poor Sweet Summer child you aren't even dealing with a tenth of the problems you could be Lord help you if they add anti radiation missiles because once they do it'll completely shut down any sams in the area and they will eventually have to come because the Hornet and A6 carried them

[@fastfireguy1234]

@@spartanx9293 don’t forget if the tomcat ever gets it’s upgrades to a later version where it gets its lantirn pod and can drop guided munitions. The F-16 and F-18 can also engage in SEAD (the anti radiation missiles similar to how the Frogdute can) those would allow cross map ground kills with spaa being no where close to firing. If anything t it can always get worse

[@jordanharvey5739]

@@spartanx9293 the ARM’s we will be getting are going to be really bad at destroying radar SAM’s. HARM doesn’t even perform well against maneuverable TELARS and SPAA, not even considering Shrike and Standard. Anyone with a brain will be just fine against ARM’s

[@robertdarnell9080]

Attack drones were a mistake, because they just made CAS available to any high tier noob premium players, rather than by someone who actually grinded a long time to get attack aircraft or heaven forbid helicopters

[@pavelmahr9582]

honestly, I love playing CAS, its so fun, not the fact that enemies on the ground cant do anything, but that feel of playing for exaple corsair around 6.7 ground match, flying through the spray of fire from enemy anti airs and machine guns, looking for enemy aircrafts to intercept. It just feels different, it makes the game awsome. besides that, ground maps are much more detailes (ofcourse when you play on the ground) air maps are basicly all the same, it has only different background, but playing on that small piece of land with all those hills, or buildings, that you can fly around, it really feels amazing. But I have to agree that playing on toptier against CAS aircrafts is awful, not every player is flying 15km from battlefield and just dumps bombs and rocekts, but those who do this just make this game really unplayable, its same with helis (KA-50) that just camps somewhere around 10km from the battlefield and just spam rockets, sit on helipad, reload, repeat. I also love playing anti airs, cuz you know that its really needed, but I think that there should be more antiar choices in the game, I know that its not that easy when basicly all antiairs nowdays are the same but you get me. Drones werent the best idea, scout drones, are good, attack drones are nightmere fuel, cuz no counterplay.

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

I think I should be able to enjoy my tank in the GROUND rb mode

[@pavelmahr9582]

@@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS I agree, but he's right, there are planes, that just cant do shit in Air RB, and if there was mode with only tanks, and then combined, you would have 5 minute queue times everywhere

[@howiethehowitzer7398]

I don't see the fun in playing ground vehicles with higher repair costs than the jets and helis I'm getting killed by several times over. Hope to see some positive changes soon! Then again.... it's gaijin.

[@marburger0544]

The drone sp cost is fine to me as it is the same as a fully loaded strike aircraft all they need to change is the spawn, it should just spawn on a runway or use the same spawn as aircraft.

[@berserkerpride]

But then the aircraft would always make way more sense. Drones are slow, really slow.

[@marburger0544]

@@berserkerpride the drones are for players that didn't wanna bother grinding aircraft trees for higher tiers.

[@ThunderGod9182]

They need to start by increasing the spawn cost of all aircraft by 15% and increase the repair cost with the loadout of the plane, if if you can kill more, the repair will cost more. I hate drones with a passion, the only reason I've even played rank 6 and 7 is because of that stupid BP challenge.

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

U know 15% of very low is VERY low right? U wanna make the spawn cost like 760 instead of 750? The costs should raise 70%

[@ThunderGod9182]

@@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS I genuinely think no plane should cost less than 1200 spawn points without ordnance, but bumping from 750 to 860 (862.5 to be precise) is a start.

[@mitchverr9330]

Gaijin has the ability to lock the amount of types of vehicles in battles (we saw it in world war mode). IDK why they dont just lock it so only like X/Y vehicles in a team can use a plane at a time. Also I think that SPAA/SAM should have the power to rearm at spawn, its too easy to run out of ammo and be like "well then, I guess I cant do anything". Theres also the problem of things like the Stormer simply not working properly.

[@akagalaxy_4403]

I hate to even suggest this but maybe make it like battlefield where each team can only have 2 aircraft up at once or soemthing

[@nakidka.]

One thing they could do is disable the 3rd person ballistic indicators for both rockets and bombs in GRB, forcing a player to use the cockpit HUD or gunsight, which should add a degree of difficulty.

[@rsdalpinist55]

Thank you for this discussion. I play BR 3-6 and I feel air support has become the overwhelming factor in which team wins. I've played missions where planes are in the air within a minute of the start of the mission. This is not right. I think in order to spawn into a plane you must have 2 ground kills with a tank and you cannot spawn into your plane until the third respawn. Also, no more than 2 aircraft for each side at any time. No bombing or strafing the spawn site or it's immediate loss of the game. I don't like spawn campers period. In my opinion they are cowards and have no honor at all. I will not take part in any spawn camping. It's no longer a battle but an execution.

[@FXIIBeaver]

Welcome to what Warthunder is. Combined arms. Airplanes win wars.

[@michaelprovoast2698]

@@FXIIBeaver If you want to drive people away and bleed the game dry of players, keep up that attitude. The game is meant to be fun, not be an "accurate" depiction of combat. CAS has become overburdening and a way for low skill ground players to get easy kills while ruining the fun for everyone else. It is not fun when there are 6-7 aircraft up at the same time that hunt down and kill all the tanks on your team. That just becomes frustrating and takes the fun out of GROUND battles.

[@FXIIBeaver]

@@michaelprovoast2698 you signed up for it when you downloaded it. Either adapt and overcome or quit.

[@michaelprovoast2698]

@@FXIIBeaver I'm sure Gaijin will love it when their paying customers start leaving the game out of frustration due to randomly dying from CAS constantly. I am sure that is an amazing business model. Asshats like you are the problem, thinking that everyone else should suffer so they can have fun.

[@CAPTAINOKIN1776]

I forget where I saw the idea but they should make ground 2 separate modes. One where it’s just tanks and a new one called combined arms where we do get out keys, helicopters, and now drones

[@blume3516]

Been saying that for years. They even had this test of a new gamemode a few months ago, where there was a version with planes and one without them. I have to say, it was the most fun in a long time playing with no jets in a mode similar to rush/breakthrough in battlefield

[@aussiescotsman4145]

Honestly atgms like the gr.91 being disabled for ground tv or having their spawn cost doubled or tripled would be what I would go for as at least with dumb rockets you have to go in for a run. With guided munitions though the pay off is way too big for how comparatively little they cost you to spawn.

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

Yes, mid tier CAS is more balanced, considering top tier CAS, cuz they have all sorts of shit to deal with tanks But mid tier is were it is more frustrating, SPECIALLY when u just want to play ur heavy tank, im speaking as a heavy tank enjoyer I hate being slow af and being a bomb magnet, and then gaijin repair cost balancing tanks based on tank vs tank combat, instead of the whole realistic Batles stats, cuz if the tanks were balanced based on the realistic Batles stats, air vehicles would cost tents of thousands, light and medium tanks would cost some thousands and heavies cost max 1000 sl

[@Drlegit-qn1jh]

I think they should totally take down the repair cost by 50 to 60% that's what they can certainly do to keep people playing it more long in one match

[@Drgunzo616]

Yeah literally every game the bottom half of the teams loses one or two tanks and leave the game.

[@keithbaker1951]

I don't agree. Single death quitters are whats killing the game. If people would second spawn into a AA vehicle it would not be as bad.

[@user625FNDA]

There is no fun playing SPAA, at least for 90% of players. Most player only spawn spaa to revenge their deaths.

[@thegangster3366]

I only play spaa at top tier.

[@user625FNDA]

@@thegangster3366 You sir are the exception of the rule, unfortunately.

[@lgndry_bst2242]

its too late in my opinion. because they have already sold way too powerful aircraft for GROUND RB. if they change it too drastically (which they should do but wont) then people will complain they changed the products they paid for too much. its a travesty but in WT you just gotta get used to the fact that those who play the most and pay the most will just kill u and there's nothing u can do about it. if u dont like top tier, i suggest staying at low BR like me, maybe 5-7.7 BR kinda thing (sweet spot)

[@johneriksson9356]

There should be 2 modes. 1 with cas and 1 without cas just true classical ground battle

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

Then the quewe times for CAS players would be abismally small, cuz I think only CAS players play ground rb for "fun" Then they would complain and WT would revert to normal cuz gaijin can't lose the pay2win CAS buyers

[@jonlikesplanes]

no there would be longer wait times in the game. if you increase the cost to get a plane it will fix it.

[@jasonz2641]

I think what they should do is to add AI controlled SAM site a couple kilometers behind the spawn like the AirRB. It will be impossible to CAS, unless they are all destroyed. This can prevents revenge killings, and adds objectives for planes. Ultimately lessening the impact of the CAS.

[@MarineCorpzor1]

CAS is nice and all, but some people would like a game mode with tanks only.

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

"Same thing makes us laugh, makes us cry" -Wise big boned man CAS makes CAS players laugh of enjoyment, and make ground players cry of suffering

[@bobybot9320]

Gotta love the "get gud" comments coming from people in invisible drones with stabilized thermal sights.

[@DiZeCorn]

what i have seen is that air superioty in RGB in starts to get so importat after 4.0 and i think broplem whe have just escalates after that. Campping in "relistic" tank game is not relay a broplem to me, its just one strategy. Of course when you get to good firing position theres no real reason to go enywhere else.

[@xxangelkingxxgaming4339]

Planes shudnt be in ground battles or very limited. The amount of times I've spawned just get to the meat of a battle an someone bombs me then I respawn an get bombed again an then back to the hangar I go

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

Idk were u learnt English, but u got the right spirit

[@mitchverr9330]

Oh, on the drones front, they are stupidly strong, it takes a huge amount of damage to finally kill them, you take more damage in a drone then you do in any planes.

[@Devildoginvu]

It was kinda ok before drones. Now youll see half the team in strike drones landing at the airstrip to reload leaving the rest to fight for caps. Its really dumb.

[@BeerSougion]

Gaijin loves repair costs, so guess how they designed their game mode?

[@CuttinEJ]

I don’t play high tier for a lot of reasons. I can also tell you that not being able to see the enemies that kill you isn’t exclusive to high tier. I’ve been complaining about invisible tanks that don’t render onscreen until AFTER they get a free kill for a long time now. More than 2 years. And you’re right. There’s is no skill issue or git gud against invisibility. The distance of drones adds the double whammy of invincibility too since you can’t see them and probably couldn’t hit them even if you did see them. This problem exists with tanks too, though in a different way. When Gaijin doesn’t want you to kill a tank, they just won’t let it die. My worst experience with that was 17 hits on a T34 57 with an M6A1 from less than 50m. Yes. Really. Gaijin has a lot of egregious issues, many of which have been around for several years. My solution is to stop spending money. Don’t pay Gaijin for a crappy product. Don’t reward poor performance. Don’t buy gold. Don’t buy premium time. Don’t buy premium vehicles. Money is all Gaijin cares about, so speak to them in the language they understand. We really could force the issue. That begins with a team effort, so I don’t have much hope that it will happen. And above all, accept the fact that #gaijincheats.

[@hartsymk1]

I'd love to see cas players response if gaijin added an s300 or similar air defence system at a ridiculously low spawn points just like the drones.

[@commandervocal3848]

But muh MiG27k can’t outrange the enemy AA anymore if that happens- is all you’ll hear

[@grizzles9652]

CAS really is only a problem between 9.0-9.7 because of the massive gap in every single tech trees AA capability compared to the competition in the air. The rest of the BR's are fine, top tier is fine due to extremely long range CAS and IRST being able to spot enemy planes at high alts where radar struggles to detect things.

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

It's an issue in all brs, even in 1.0 in some nations (China with like 900 lbs in 1.0)

[@grizzles9652]

@@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS I am sorry but it simply isnt a issue at all BR's. Spawn fighters and SPAA and its not an issue. But no one spawns fighters then bitches about CAS.

[@jonlikesplanes]

that is why i like to use planes like the jaguar that can fly high and get kills. they need to add something for cas in air rb

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

@@grizzles9652 im playing ground for GROUND vehicles, what is the hard part to understand? If yall can have ur own gamemode with only planes, why do I need to fight planes if I just wanna play with my tank in a game Dat actually has GOOD phisics and damage models?

[@kingderpington6082]

@@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS Your argument is the exact same as cas players argument just from a different starting view. Air rb is bad cause cas doesnt exist for them. Ground rb is the only place to go to use cas planes/vehicles.

[@tommyleesheils2061]

I’ve found using spaa helps deal with this issue

[@BeerSougion]

It is the same in naval, some big battleship or cruiser players just refuse to spawn in a winning boat to cap the point and fulfill the objective. Not enough AA is a failure of playing the mission.

[@loseronyoutube3036]

I feel it’s also important to mention that planes like the A-10 and su-25 completely break air rb. Their weapon systems are so advanced compared to other aircraft that they stand almost no chance, because the strike aircraft are at such a low br. But in regards to ground rb, there simply just needs to be more balance between aircraft and tanks. There are some tanks in game that literally just cannot do anything about it. All tanks should at least be able to hide from aircraft. It’s hard to feel like you’re in a “tank” when your armor means nothing and you have no countermeasures at all, or even a warning.

[@BrickWar]

Yeah I know what you mean. Look: Rushing into the cap and you have an aircraft I would say 600points for Helicopter 900 points for Aircraft 850 for Drones

[@happyflygon8096]

To be honest I think I've been driven mostly out of ground RB recently. Every time I do play, I have at least one slot eaten up by an anti-CAS aircraft- and the grind is more aggressively bad for ground than for planes, so I just find myself playing air RB much more. Shame, I joined the game in the first place to play ground RB. Now it's air RB or air RB with extra suffering for those who dare to spawn in the vehicle the mode's supposed to be for.

[@Registered_Simp]

A solution for the drones that would make it so that they don't bankrupt your team of SP for very limited armament would be that they spawn further back so that SPAA can spot them if they're up. The thing right now that makes drones extremely frustrating to fight is that no one has any idea if you spawned in one, even the SAM's. If you push them back enough to where they have the altitude to look down but not enough to go unspotted, then players who spawn a slow aircraft without any countermeasures in an area that can have SAM's will be immediately shot down for such. It may be brutal, but given that this is free CAS that everyone gets, this is a risk you take.