War Thunder's Ammo Problem

[@Spookston]

As always, if you have any feedback regarding ammunition, leave it in a comment. I'll pass it along to Gaijin.

[@mr.wilkingson8419]

Thanks dad

[@kickazz3638]

Honestly. Yeah, I've got to agree across the board. I'm sorry but I've seen Bradleys unload on the side of a t62 and do nothing because of volumetric shells being scuffed.

[@rarespetrusamartean5433]

also, HEAT that fuses when it touches grass (like in american desert) HEAT is downright not usable in american desert because of that

[@justdusthere2816]

Ghost shells lol

[@Death_Trooper-177]

Is it normal for HEATFS to explode on a leaf because it always blows up on a small bush or tree and it’s really annoying

[@diamonddollar1527]

war thunder’s “____” problem could be a very long playlist

[@zv_cx]

because war thunder has a LOT of problems that gaijin will never fix

[@Drakey_Fenix]

@@zv_cx Because they are intended to be there as a frustration mechanic to make you spend money. This is what most people don't get and continue to complain about. The only way to make Gaijin "fix" anything is to stop giving them money. Money is the only thing that decides what they do.

[@jammygamer8961]

@@Drakey_Fenix this is why i no longer play

[@LipziG3R]

And the list of "Warthunder does ____ really well" is shorter than my D.

[@Obi_Wan_Kenobi_027]

Spookstons playlist on this very topic is 56 videos long

[@crudboy12]

Before I deleted WT for the most recent time, I was grinding the British tree. The issue with solid shot was very frustrating, particularly with the 17 pounder. I was fighting tanks that could reliably one shot me, whereas my ability to do damage was very limited. Furthermore, I couldn't reverse out of the way because most WWII British tanks have the painfully short reverse gears. IRL, velocity has a big impact on damage and spalling, so a gun like the 17 pounder shouldn't feel so weak. Post war testing showed that for medium caliber guns, solid shot was roughly comparable to APHE regarding post pen damage. Spalling reducing against thicker armor actually makes sense, since in real life when a shell hits a plate it can only barely penetrate, not much of the shell actually makes it through to the other side

[@V-V1875-h]

But how the spalling is modelled is the problem, it seems like hitting a shot with AP that has a good bit of residual pen left does less than a shot that has almost full residual pen

[@Appletank8]

spall effect should be more like a bell curve. 150mm pen, hitting 5 mm plate, little damage. hitting 100mm plate, pretty good damage. hitting 145mm plate, localized damage.

[@dustbargames6371]

Ayyyyy im grinding them rn there a bit of a pain but i can top frag with em still :)

[@vodkanizer6866]

what a chad , deleted war thunder , youre my hero , im litteraly addicted playing that piece of sh*t

[@ch4z_bucks]

@Muntather Aldamok In real life an amazing gun, considered one of the best in the war, at least the one of the best fielded by the British. In game, it feels mediocre.

[@ImThatScotty]

The most painful tank to shoot solid shot at is an LVT. There is so much space between crew members and equipment

[@williewilson2250]

No armor best armor

[@triparadox.c]

T72 for me. That thing is ass

[@prom1710]

Gaz aaa

[@teun911]

LVT survivability has already been nerfed to the point you are just a massive target. Shoot center-mass/below the turret and you will always get gunner, mostly gunner/driver too.

[@tuanzixiao3666]

thats why you use RUSSIA

[@koffeengfawkes7324]

"It's fixed" - Gaijin, creators of the cancel button that puts you into a match instantly

[@jakubgrzeszkowiak952]

I myself can say that HEAT got nerfed at some point. Sherman 105 sometimes doesn't do any damage to target or minimal at best.

[@fenfrostpaws2000]

I've been having decent luck with the Stuzh 42s HEAT

[@justinkedgetor5949]

Yeah I fell this as the Italian m42 heat is super trash and rarely pens anything or does almost 0 post pen damage. IE: only injuring / killing the driver in a stug whilst gunner and commander are un scathed

[@kevinvelado9907]

I remember having to direct hit a Crusader three times without doing anything with the 105 Sherman, and finally on the fourth hit, it blows up. HEAT is such a joke in this game

[@bennyboyyonkers4649]

@@kevinvelado9907 Been using the 105 for about five days now? Just going back to it, having a ball. I can safely say I get many more one shots, and reliable kills with HE then I do HEAT. I save HEAT for French 105s, Italian Shermans / French Shermans, and Pz. IV Gs.

[@P.K.Veiller]

@@bennyboyyonkers4649 I struggle with HEAT. Alot of shots doing nothing even on flat armour. I will try HE now

[@jammygamer8961]

Another problem i have is modern vehicles lacking access to shells they'd fire in real life like in the case of the XM 8 I believe gaijin should make your vehicles BR depend on your ammo choice. This would improve realism and increase the amount of vehicles you can use in a line up

[@lukigensfm]

and the Leclerc SXXI

[@shanekhiu9884]

Yeah the unhistorical XM-8 ammo still bugs me. It’s underperforming by a lot, especially as an event vehicle people spent money and grinded hard for.

[@unoriginalhazard]

That actually sounds like a good idea.

[@mitri5389]

@@shanekhiu9884 oh well, its vehicle that had marketing stats going against real vehicles which went into service because they had enough compromises to make them viable to purchase...

[@FiveArc]

i believe WoT has, for as very long time, matchmaking dependent on the modules that you have researched and equipped. that might be nice to have, but even just basing it off of ammo choice would be an improvement.

[@g.williams2047]

The worst is when you need to grind for a top level round on a bunch of tanks. On things like the PT76, the grind to get the CheatFS round makes you almost want to keep the BT-5 in your lineup.

[@bennyboyyonkers4649]

Fr, but the shot if it did manage to pen, was pretty damn thrilling watching the fireball. (I remember the PT-76 APHE being a tiny, shitty nuke round.)

[@Doomsgate]

@@bennyboyyonkers4649 yeah the PT-76B round only had 98mm in it APHE round meaning you would truffle to pen Sherman’s and other Stuff

[@Jarda-di4gd]

which I did, not gonna lie... BT 5, and especially if you've got the event one with 76mm is infinitely better on 5.3 - 5.7 than that bloody floating piece of utter rubish...

[@zoomoce4642]

@@Jarda-di4gd its a bt7, and yeah, it is really good.

[@g.williams2047]

@@Jarda-di4gd I wish I had this tank.

[@M4A3Sherman]

You state the problem with APHE very well. It’s great when you’re on the giving end and is horrible when you’re on the receiving end. I can’t tell you how many times the inside of my Sherman got “nuked” by a Tiger I’s shell. It didn’t hit or destroy anything when it penetrated but then exploded and destroyed everything!

[@reinbeers5322]

Happens in the Panthers too. Someone shoots cupola, misses the commander's head, it explodes and the shrapnel travels backwards across the crew compartment to kill my driver.

[@jimbothegymbro7086]

part of me wishes it was like irl APHE where it's fragments were pretty much a wider spall cones and the pressure waves kill radius was smaller

[@_Zekken]

The japanese 75mm APHE is incredibly strong for this reason, almost a garunteed 1 shot for anything it penetrates.

[@diverman1023]

When in Real life, they didn’t detonate half of the time and if they did, the blast would go in a cone and not a sphere

[@eijijivjiv]

What do you expect its a 88 lol

[@tomnow92]

Another thing, HEAT/HEATFS exploading on some leaves... Or a fence, while heat-shielding on a M46 for example is useless.

[@williewilson2250]

Well 30 feet compared to 4 is a big difference when a shaped charge has to travel that distance

[@bighobo7745]

@@williewilson2250 Basically any HEAT fuze in use since the 50s was designed to survive light impacts such as sheet metals, plywood etc. and keep going with full functionality.

[@williewilson2250]

@@bighobo7745 that as well

[@angrydragonslayer]

I'm calling them horizontal cope cages :)

[@kyb5203]

Something I find quite frustrating is the inconsistency of spall behavior, the amount of spall produced is practically random and how it bounces even more so. Sometimes I’ll get shot centermass and one crew just eats the three pieces of spall, I’ll then be shot again and my tank folds into itself with 100+ pieces is spall from the same type of round. Also as mentioned, side skirts are hellish I’ll hit a panther flat on the side skirt with APCR and poof, gone

[@reinbeers5322]

APCR as a whole is a meme. IRL, it behaves a lot more like solid AP or APDS and isn't affected by angles as much as it is in WT.

[@jimbothegymbro7086]

it'd be nice if it simply scaled in both size and number with the thickness of the plate and for composite armor have it be the thickness off the solid parts and not factor in air space

[@alarminglyfastmovingskelet7289]

​@@reinbeers5322 It definitely does behave terribly in War Thunder but HVAP/APCR did tend to struggle against sloped armor. Remember reading something where even 90mm HVAP lost all of it's penetration against a Panther if the Panther was front was angled upwards by only 5°.

[@OliverXRed]

Earlier today, i was hit by an T-34 in my Jagdpanzer IV, i was using the addonarmor, which manifestes itself as spare tracks on the front of the tank. He hit a shot that bounced off the bottom of the track, which then went straight into my tank at a 90 degree angle, which killed my entire crew. I am just thinking that it is a bit weird that the shot can bounce like that from something that is just sitting loosly on the tank.

[@Appletank8]

you must have put too much super glue on the tracks.

[@kalebk9595]

Well you see, your opponent was in a Russian tank, so he wins.

[@ushikiii]

Yeah and that happens in German tanks the most because their is more room for that to happen then other nations and possibly because their tracks are also thicker. I dunno, that's just pure speculation, I have shot a Panther before and something similar happened.

[@emigdiogreen7439]

Happy Valentines Yaw, I Hope You Guy's Are Showing Much Love To Your Loved One's!

[@eddieagar8039]

Thanks man

[@treekid7455]

im already busy being fucked by this game

[@rowdyace5719]

What’s a loved one?

[@vladimirtherussian166]

@@rowdyace5719 idk man

[@vladimirtherussian166]

@@treekid7455 yea same

[@mr.wilkingson8419]

The carrots I shot during that April fools event were more realistic then the current apsfds

[@spraki3397]

next vid: war thunders "war thunder" problem

[@AHappyCub]

Darts got nerfed across the board by accident? That explains the fact that AGS's M735 can't pen the LFP of a TURMS-T when I fired at one less than 10 m 3-4 times

[@medzik34]

Everytime I meet the AGS I got slapped, no matter where I shoot :D

[@AHappyCub]

@@medzik34 Do you meet them when they're hull down or no?, cause if it's hull down then it's working as the design intended, but if not then it's either bad luck or just poor aiming

[@GenJoseGhost]

I literally one shot turms all the time with the AGS by aiming at the FLP

[@AHappyCub]

@@GenJoseGhost Which is exactly what should happen, but somehow this one time my shots bounce multiple times from like 3-5m and it didn't die, heli who killed me saw the whole thing happen and even he didn't believe it

[@samphardtake]

AGS is fucking cancer. It literally one shots everything it sees. I died multiple times to AGS in my T-80BVM,T-80U,T-80B etc. Even tho i always landed a first shot,my apfsds would magically either bounce,or pen and do absolutely no damage. And AGS would return one single shot that would one shot me. Put a fucking paper tank irl and shoot it with a 3BM42 or 3BM60 and lets see what is left of it. Gaijin has no fucking idea how armor or shells work. Give the hullbreak back ffs

[@Hyper_1989]

The fact that you're getting 100fps at times with a 3080 in War Thunder is pretty crazy. Could you possibly make a video similar to your performance analysis when 2.0 came out again? I've definitely noticed a degrade in performance over last years updates despite no substantial additions to the graphical fidelity.

[@jameshodgson3656]

I get ~90-100fps on a 1070, I usually play on max. AFAIK the 30 series just don't have solid driver support yet.

[@FMHikari]

FPS degradation began after volumetric shells, armor and explosions.

[@reinbeers5322]

Yeah I've noticed that too. My fps stay high but I get constant stuttering that 100% wasn't there before. I've had to lower my settings to basically ULQ with shadows and AA.

[@bro3217]

We have no idea what the rest of his build is. I'm no genius but I'm pretty sure having a good GPU but a average to sub par everything else isn't good when trying to get the max performance out of the new cards. I could be wrong though

[@xero6774]

100 fps with a 3080 seems pretty bad.. i get around 70 with a 1660 super

[@cougarstable73]

4:15 I was the dip$hit in the AH-1F lmao good shot!

[@JohnSmith-tg9wc]

APCR is so bad too. It's supposed to give more pen than APHE, especially in WW2 tanks, but it will bounce most of the time. It's so useless.

[@Gary_The_Metro]

It's because gaijin made their angled penetration just... non existant the APCR shell that for example the M26 uses a huge part of it's penetration at a 30 degree angle, at 60 degrees it may as well be you shooting a 37mm at a tiger II. And even if you do pen, it's a coin toss on if it actually does damage.

[@naamadossantossilva4736]

Russia barely used APCR and when it used they had small tungsten cores.American APCR had huge cores.

[@_Zekken]

APCR is by far the worst round, I dont even bother with it.

[@creedude2995]

APCR/HVAP is also one the round types that sits in a bad spot. It doesn’t have the damage to outright kill most tanks in one hit like APDS does and it also performs extraordinarily poorly against angled armor. In the past it had a use against thick flat plates, but now after Gaijin implemented some changes to most APCR penetration, it has become extremely useless on most vehicles it is found on, mostly due to how the penetration increase offered by APCR is only marginally better than what APCBC already gives. Some great examples of this is the APCR for the 76 Sherman, the long 88 for Germany , and the US 105mm and 120mm cannons.

[@trinalgalaxy5943]

Years ago, those rounds were godly. they had incredible pen and good damage but suffered against angles. IRL german tanks would have a few for punching through heavier targets, but costs kept the rounds from being the primary AT round. Gaijin's response to this overuse was to make the rounds do almost no damage (unlike reality where they had similar damage to other AP rounds) to discourage their use.

[@bornonthebattlefront4883]

I usually bring a few APCR rounds in my m26a1 Just incase I run into a tiger 2 H from the front or a is3 But 99% of the time, I just use it to take out that 1 crew I can’t hit with apcbc, cause the armor is too thick But what is most annoying is when I hit ammo with it and it does no damage, APCR Is doo doo And for no reason, it should be amazing for range and flat plates, yet it feels like it barely does 20mm pen over standard APCBC, and a quarter of the overall damage Sometimes even less than that

[@shanekhiu9884]

Yeah, almost no one loads HVAP or APCR anymore. It’s currently near useless in their current implementation. Sure you could possibly pen more and hit a critical module or crew but pointless if the enemy points and clicks you and you get deleted by a well placed APHE nuke.

[@ara_orun8184]

I load HVAP into tier one tanks like the Pz 2c and such, it’s godly there because of the flat plates and low armor but APCR has become a garbage round

[@reinbeers5322]

For the german 50mm I've looked at the stat card, APCR only has an increase in penetratiion if you're both at 500m or less away from target and the armor you hit is angled at 30deg or less. If you're fighting, say, a T-34, there's literally nowhere the APCR will penetrate that the APHE won't. It's entirely useless for that gun, although the Tiger E's is more useful solely because of Jumbo mantlets.

[@lilhombrae3532]

I really think that apfsds should definitely be buffed (post damage) plus the m103 solid shot still has severe issues going through anything. I remember one shoting Leo’s but now it just bounces randomly.

[@sagichnichtsowiesonicht7326]

M103 solid shot doesn't overmatch the leo1 ufp when it should so it will just vanish or bounce

[@jPlanerv2]

This rounds bounces out of armor that should never bounce from same with T34 when i shoot front plate of panther with 282mm penning 120mm solid shot i should fucking pen it at 500 meter at slight angle somehow 88 mm never bounces just out of panther at most doesnt pen but this US 120 bounces all the time and only this caliber.

[@lilhombrae3532]

@@jPlanerv2 it may be the panther 2 which has a good bit of armor but yea it should go right through it

[@jPlanerv2]

@@lilhombrae3532 nope Simple generic panther A or G i tell you T34 and m103 120 aps are bugged and keep ricocheting from armor and Angeles that it shouldnt, i tried to replicate those bounces in garage and they never repeat.

[@unclesam5733]

@@jPlanerv2 I agree. I used to have good time grinding with my M103 and solid shots and now i cant even pen Leo 1. Iam forced to use that useless HEAT, which sucks due to long reload. I left my 7.7 line up and went for 6.7. Super Pershing and T34 are much better choice, also T34 AP works better, still i have sometimes trouble with Tiger 2 side armor for some reason but its better than M103.

[@zachpaterson2585]

Most annoying for me is having my APFSDS rounds just disappear because they clipped a twig of a chain link fence

[@szymonrozanski6938]

Gaijin: The Maus is indestructible. Real life: The Maus can be destroyed by a single person kamikaze with a greanade.

[@datankz2498]

Another thing is with HESH, what it should be doing is if it hits at an angle it should do more damage or the same damage as hitting a flat surface. What I'm noticing is if it hits a flat surface there's devastation, if you hit at a slight angle, the round goes to space or across the atlantic and hits meemaw's home.

[@michaelsoland3293]

Just casually shot down an A-4E like it was nothing

[@trolski1618]

Idk how about you but I find it lazy that apfsds damage depends more on gun caliber than round caliber, of course spall would also depend on velocity and etc but it’s amount is what feels inconsistent

[@jimbothegymbro7086]

that's a spall problem not an APFSDS problem though solid shot is pretty funky at best trust me I've been farming the Tea chaps

[@StealthySpace7]

APHE explodes in a perfect sphere in game, if you pen the turret, it will probably kill the driver too for some reason, even though things like 76mm APHE have less explosive filler than a hand grenade and produces a cone of shrapnel like AP.

[@patriotic-panda]

something tells me you dont know how dangerous a real handgrenade is

[@StealthySpace7]

@@patriotic-panda when all the explosive force is shaped into a cone and happens 3 feet above you, apart from a headache and some ringing in your ears, you’ll be fine. I’m not saying it should be harmless to drivers, but taking an APHE from the front to the turret shouldn’t kill both drivers in the Sherman

[@Geniusinventor]

Why does this man always sounds angry too every thing in history?

[@amanosama7884]

I don't know what makes me more sad, the fact that those (and other) issues on core mechanics exist or the fact that they will probably never fix them because you know, money is better than a perfectly working game

[@niallking2762]

When it comes to post-penetration damage, I feel like gaijin's always used this as a method to prevent high-pen shells from overperforming at "armour meta" BRs. APDS is a pretty good example. If we look at APDS when tanks like the centurion mk1 were added, before even the french tech tree was in, 17pdr apds was pretty capable of one-shotting large tanks like the panther and tiger through centre of mass hits. Previously, you could only really find APDS on top tier (for the time) tanks like the cent mk.10 and leopard 1, etc. Shortly afterwards, APDS had its post-penetration damage significantly nerfed, and it hasn't really been improved since other than for "high calibre" APDS like is seen on the conqueror and chieftains. Speaking of the french, those who were playing when france was added to ground forces probably remember that solid AP saw a pretty major buff in post-pen damage around the same time, when previously it had been no better than low-calibre APDS. By contrast, APFSDS (which should essentially do the same damage; both are sub-calibre munitions) does more "consistent" damage, or at least used to until very recently. Again, I think this is because it was previously only really found on top tier vehicles, where everybody was firing it. These days there are far more lower BR vehicles and IFVs which fire it too, typically around the 8.3-8.7 mark, so it's ended up being tweaked to match the lower echelons of where it's found. This is a problem which I don't think is too easy to address. When it comes to solutions, either removing the more "modern" ammos from lower BR vehicles which don't need it (back to the cent mk.1 for example, it doesn't really require APDS these days with the improved solid AP) and re-buffing them to their more consistent states or more frequently adjusting how these rounds perform to better fit the flow of the game's meta, preventing rounds from falling behind in consistency more often.

[@wildpotatoes699]

Mans built different. The shot at the end taking out a plane, chefs kiss

[@rickpilhorn]

Having worked on bugs for years, I can tell you that a LOT of the issues you mentioned towards the end of your video are related to being a distributed game: Not everything you see is as the serve sees it due to latency

[@zeke7100]

There are three core pillars in tank combat. Firepower, speed, firepower. Once you get above like 6.0, armor is basically pointless. You'll pen almost everything you go against as long as you are using a TD, light tank, or medium tank.

[@marcusborderlands6177]

The 6.3 t44 and both tiger 2s bounce a lot of rounds, at least in my experience. And the front plate of the t72 and onwards bounces a LOT

[@arifnoble9563]

that is what troubles me as a German main, everyone else went new generation of tank warfare with emphasize on speed and firepower while i, stuck with heavy hunk of worthless steel equipped with guns that is very capable and also slow tanks. when most of my teammates are German, i dont blame them for not pushing OBJ and costing us the game, i wouldn't push OBJ myself with a KT, panther? perhaps.

[@Real_Claudy_Focan]

Thanks the bad map design for this ! In no ways a Leopard 1 at 7.3 was ever designed to fight in small cities fights (CQB), in these case, even a 76mm Sherman with a "short STAB" will always prevail ! Most maps neglects core tank designs which are ; fight in eastern europe plains ! (above a certain BR) And this is why i'll keep saying that maps should be locked per BR range ! I dont mind Sherman fighting Pz3 and 4 in small "bocage" in Normandy and see some T-64, T-72 fight Leo's in Fulda plains !

[@zeke7100]

@@marcusborderlands6177 I mean, yeah there are a *few* tanks that bounce *sometimes* but with all the new vehicles they add to the game with next to no br changes everytime, you'll often find that a tiger 2 is severely outmatched even when being in the top of its BR.

[@arifnoble9563]

@@zeke7100 it was good for its Era, further that, it is better off as a at turret. Most German heavies and td feels like it was made for open wide map good for sniping, while in urban map, it was good to hold chock points, not brawling, just as at gun on wheels.

[@jacktheripper4908]

I just wanted to say that Spookston has come a long way and is still a great war thunder youtuber. Thanks for all you talk about with us Spookston.

[@MrHK94]

3:30 i was waiting a year to hear it... finally u said that on video. i hope gaijin will fix this.

[@blitzarkii]

Reject ammo, return to ramming

[@lt.lettuce2023]

I think the best example of this is brits. Brits in wt were always underpowered for me, never being able to one shot like ahpe. It always bugged me but I finally looked up why the brits never used aphe. Aphe does not explode in a sphere. Aphe explodes in a cone and testing showed that the cone didn't offer enough of an advantage over solid shot.

[@jeandelacroix6726]

Will a change to APHE negatively affect the 3 majors ? Yes. Therefore it won't happen.

[@lt.lettuce2023]

@@jeandelacroix6726 sadly true. But i think it could possibly happen if they want to make a 4th major.

[@wulfheort8021]

Brits underpowered? They have the easiest tanks to play with. While most of the enemy team drives unstabilized WW2 tanks you get to shoot post war ammo with a stabilized gun. I had never had an easier experience before when I got to the Centurions (except for the first one).

[@lt.lettuce2023]

@@wulfheort8021 with the cents yeah its not that hard to play brits. I was talking about before that. Plus the cents break your bank and are painfully slow

[@wulfheort8021]

@@lt.lettuce2023 the slower speed actually helps, because you arrive later than the enemy expects you to arrive. low tier brit tanks are a pain though, I used the australian premium to grind through that pain.

[@TheOtherFagola]

That clip at the end was so nice.

[@sniperh2o325]

It's such a pain when I'm trying to hit the cheek of a king tiger or a Russian t34 and watch it just barely nip the barrel or mantle and do absolutely nothing afterwords

[@le_romos]

**Spookston posts a New video** Gaijin: *-Oh no, not again...*

[@jonas_k.123]

Swedish stock APDS is the best thing ever

[@connorparrish7002]

I like for that insane snipe at the end.

[@Hangry_Hungarian]

3:50 My 500+ mm APFDS Round could not pen the side of a BMP-1 and the BMP was not angled or anything and it was point blank to the side, but somehow the round did not pen and the BMP Killed me. "War thunder is just great, nothing wrong" - Gajijn Probably

[@user-bn5df6hl1d]

You know, I noticed that my M4A3 76s AP shot seemed worse. I remember it having pretty good pen, and the damage being good. Now its just..worse than the APHE in every way, I used to carry 3 different shell types but now its just APHE and HVAP I honestly loved having different ammo types that truely felt useful in different situations, but i guess it is nice just loading APHE only I reckon

[@samuelsheldon7829]

Jut a few days ago I had my 20pdr APDS non-pen the back of a Tiger II's turret, because it hit where the escape hatch met the rear turret armour. I was less than 10 feet away

[@hawkstable8889]

What about the fact that HESH is almost completely useless in most situations despite the fact that it was used as a primary anti-tank round by the british in weapons like the L2 BAT?

[@samlambert4770]

And that the exploration radius on large HESH is scuffed as fuck. I literally only play Britain and I especially love the fv4005. Some of the shit that those rounds do actually blows my mind. Sometimes I can drop a tiger 2 from 3 metres away from the front and then Sometimes I hit the side of the track and literally do nothing but the track.

[@awe-fullanimations4737]

HESH was once used for anti-tank roles as it works great against steel but not so much against composite.

[@hawkstable8889]

@@awe-fullanimations4737 Yeah, but it just sucks that it doesn't even work against RHA anymore. It used to be meta against Russian tanks like the T-62 and T-10 because it ignored angles, then they changed it so the spalling direction depends on the angle of the armor instead of the shell impact. So now the most it'll do against anything with a sloped front is killing the driver because the spalling won't reach any other crew members.

[@awe-fullanimations4737]

@@hawkstable8889 Yeah HESH is quite underperforming compared to other rounds, but I've heard it's loads cheaper to make which is probably why countries like the UK or India use them.

[@anobody7467]

BMPs take a ridiculous amount of damage and bounce things it would bave no possible chance to irl.

[@Geniusinventor]

Can we all take time to appreciate the work this man is doing to educate us man thank you.

[@bigdogger8994]

Unrelated: I believe warthunder needs a ranking system based upon K/D/A+ Critical hits per match+ assists and scouting+ number of bounces you take per match ( you already get a reward for bouncing a number of shots so the groundwork is already laid out). The ranking system would need to based upon game mode for each country

[@RandomPerson-ob1hk]

4:03 we get it you're goated

[@meatball.9710]

Has anyone noticed that plane sounds have been off the past couple weeks? Like I am finding it harder to spot planes just by using sound.

[@PinkPuppetGirl]

Spalling is the usual method of cracking a tank in real life but unfortunately they decided they hated physics at Gaijin.

[@oliverh5367]

Don’t forget Hesh getting absorbed by a gun barrel or tracks on a bmp when the impact would blast a 183 mm hole and crack it open like a can when fired from an FV4005

[@logantc.1353]

I would like to add my friends experience of a apfsds round barely glancing off the top of his amx-30 DCA turret sending what looked like a full load of shrapnel straight down into all his crew. Confirmed what the game did in pen analysis, looked a bit sus. Its been at least a update ago so I don't know if it still does this. Great vid btw

[@pjhaebe]

Here's a crazy thought, make the game historically accurate. If your chosen country has garbage tanks... oh well.. is what it is. Gaijin could literally pick up the latest Janes book and make the game work

[@LordAlacorn]

Community: Reasonable critic Gaijin: HeRp DeRp I LIKE MONEY!

[@pavelslama5543]

Another problems: 1) HEAT is a useless trash. Even fairly large shell deals almost no damage. 2) Almost everyone on the lower levels has APCRs, so heavy tanks above 3.2 are useless, as any scout can pen them. 3) There is no non-pen damage, even though IRL a serious spalling may take out a tank without penning it. However considering the absolute bashing a heavily armored vehicles are already receiving, I´d say that this change would only make stuff worse.

[@einar8019]

4) apcr sucks and noone ever uses it

[@blackorange5091]

one more note: APCR is absolutely garbage in its current state.

[@prod-Sane]

Real talk, do these problems still exist as of 05/03/2024?

[@burneracc2567]

Not to mention insanely inconsistent HEATFS rounds. I have only managed to consistently use PT 76B HEATFS to overpressure Marders.

[@jadenlarson9431]

Happy valentines day spookston love ur vids!

[@emersonsteffler4149]

This along with APCR miraculously non penning any armor sloped at more than 70 degrees. I know there are odd times where APCR will pen angled armor but it's very inconsistent. There are a lot of times where 90 mm or any other caliber APCR will simply bounce off the front plate of a Marder 1, BMP, or even a PT 76 57 simply due to the angle being sufficient for it to ricochet. In reality a 90 mm projectile travelling at that velocity would never bounce off a plate that thin. With regards to volumetric armor, there are a lot of problems like you mentioned. One of the issues I commonly find are that armor plates with optics behind them somehow bounce shots twice as often as they should. Another is the obvious side skirts (I'm looking at you panthers, tigers and t34's/IS tanks) where the game believes that those areas have almost 1000 mm of armor due to the overlaps and angles so they will not pen in critical situations. IMO a firm rework of these features is required.

[@patrykK1028]

APCR is so bad it's unbelievable. On most tanks it only pens more than APHE at 90° and any angling makes it drop off a cliff. And them there's the post pen damage or the almost complete lack of it

[@awacsrazgriz967]

APCR honestly is complete trash if you arent exactly hitting 90°. Grinding the m48 was so annoying i ended up playing the pve assault mode. I barely use apcr and when i do its basically only on the Hellcat and Jumbo due to them being unable to front pen tigers (not counting frontal weakspots like MG port and so on). APCR with its piss poor performance just shouldnt be a stock shell.

[@JackTheNoober]

Yes those goddamn optics seem to just eat all damage completely sometimes. Have had this situation multiple times with my Tiger and Panther. Shooting at something I should pen rather easily just to see the entire shell disappear into the optics without doing damage to anything else.

[@hungryhedgehog4201]

APHE should have the chance to just shatter depending on angle and armor type and then not explode and isntead break into parts, reducing penetratve power. That's why solid shot was prefered cause it reduced the risk of the round just breaking up or the fuze failing.

[@andrewgause6971]

Yeah. But that would make Russia suffer. So good luck convincing them of that...

[@jeandelacroix6726]

@@andrewgause6971 *Russia, Germany and the US

[@andrewgause6971]

@@jeandelacroix6726 As a German, U.S. and Swedish player, I would happily, *happily* accept that tradeoff. Because the U.S. and Germany stop using APHE after a certain point long before Russia does. XD

[@chewebacon3346]

The tiger 1 is a amazing example of rounds catching 2 surfaces at once. It seems flat and easy but the amount of times my shell clips the smallest edge just to get trapped into the void that is tiger one armor is insane.

[@dlfn7623]

I know you covered it in a previous video but you should've talked about how APCR behaves unrealistically as well. For those reading this comment and haven't seen one of his earlier videos, APCR should have better angle performance and post pen damage which are things gaijin have nerfed massively.

[@Kuschel_K]

He already did in the „what War Thunder gets wrong“ video

[@dlfn7623]

@@Kuschel_K I know, I said that.

[@Kuschel_K]

@@dlfn7623 indeed 🤔 Must have skipped over that 😋

[@thegamingfish547]

nothing made me more suicidal in war thunder than finding out a new vehicle I unlocked had stock apcr

[@e_sd]

nothings better than quitting war thunder for a few months after over a year of trying to and still seeing the same issues if not more than when you quit

[@SaperPl1]

It's not about specific ammo being inconsistent, it's about Gaijin tightening the screw when it comes to rigging the RNG so players need to spend more time grinding stuff, making tasks for the season and events. I have the same feelings in lower tiers where for example German flak 88 mm can bounce off of slopes of panthers and t34 fired at almost point-blank like with a vehicle length distance between barrel and the enemy. All the analysis that you are doing is happening on the client on what you can try to figure out with stuff that is on your client, but once you're in the match, you'll see magic bounces or magic shots where it doesn't make sense because game server has different configuration/behaves differently. Try to compare panther's front plate against flak/nashorn/waffentrager/vfw 88s and then try to shoot at it in game. you can't pen panther's front plate at close range even in arcade when whole front plate is showing up as green. It just doesn't happen, you need to send like 5 rounds at it before something pens. Any analysis in test drive, custom battles and armor analysis is meaningless for what's happening in the random battles where the game is tinkering odds to make sure you're spending more time grinding.

[@PvPhacker]

i came for the rare Spookston British gameplay

[@shanweeboy]

I hate how if I shoot the housing around the gun, the round acts like it hit an adamantine wall. The metal around the gun barrel alot of times is thinner than the armor, but the geometry somehow makes it unbreakable even when the round hits dead on.

[@Ko.Wi.]

There are more than 3, and every tank commander will tell you that. Carius also said that. Communications is one of the most important ones. Thats how outmatched german tanks were able to defeat russian armour in the early stages of Barbarossa. Communicating by Radios

[@trinalgalaxy5943]

While there are more than 3, as far as tank design itself goes (looking at individual tanks) most of the rest are subcomponents of those 3. for example: mobility. you can make a tank that is fast, but less mobile than a tank that is maneuverable but slower. Fire power might be having a big gun, but a smaller, faster firing gun might have more firepower. Armor might be having thick plates or angled plates, but it might also be avoiding getting hit. In your example, communication both in the tank and in the tank group allows for better positioning (mobility/protection) and application of firepower. This is why people talk about tanks as a balance of 3 and not dozens.

[@Ko.Wi.]

@@trinalgalaxy5943 well it depends if you Design the tank with Radios or not

[@LoneWolf-kw3ol]

my problem with ammo was that gaijin would say that X vehicle got bumped up for getting a 10% better pen round, or a half baked heat round, but then do something like putting the swedish APDS that cab pen a T-34-76 at 1.0, or the cheese wedge against tiger IIs because "the round only has X pen"

[@highlyconfused6493]

Playing the french currently and what I can say is that it isn't different to do a substantial amount of damage with solid shot, though there are a few times when shells will penetrate but do light damage to most things The most frustrating thing about this game is barely glancing off a plate and shell disappearing, leaving you to hope the other player didnt noticed, which they usually do

[@SillySmol]

I like to use the word "dexterity" when talking about the tri-way balance of combat vechicles. Firepower can encircle the topics of fire strenght, Armor covers the topic of taking damage (or tanking it no pun intended). Dexterity in difference to mobility is more broad, it encompasses how responsive a vechicle is on top of it's speed. It also refers to how fast it can deliver its attack and then hide, which of course also adds stealthiness to the mix.

[@jaxrammus9165]

fixing sound, fixing volumetric shells, and fixing aphe over performance would make the game legendary and truly esports ready...

[@Gundalf550]

great video thanks. Additionally: APHE rounds are like the name suggests filled with an explosive. This filler has a much lower density than the metal which would make up the space of the filler in the grenade, leading to less kinetic energy. Therfore, APHE having a higher penetration than comparable APCBC rounds ist straight-up nonsense.

[@bezimienny_andzej6425]

What Gaijin has failed entirely in doing regarding volumetric, is introducing the shell taking the path of least resistance, which occurs IRL. Right now if he hit the corner with the impact being pretty much perpendicular to 1 plate, and along the other, the shell is basically guaranteed to either shatter and deliver miniscule damage or magically continue along the plate in a straight line, never deviating even 1cm from the course. This is basically ridiculous.

[@tedarcher9120]

Also, aphe don't have a laser rangefinder to know at which distance to explode. They use a timed detonator, usually 0.01 second, so the round can go through the entire tank and out the other side before exploding

[@nabusvco]

My issue is that the funny snail keeps compressing my ammo

[@DexMaster881]

Damn it's 2022 and we still put Realistic and Balanced in the same sentence.

[@ThSeLo]

Not to mention, basically anything about a round related to explosives is also pretty inconsistent APHEs will often not detonate if penetrating some weird angles and spots which aren't uncommon to shoot at This is a problem since APHE won't generate almost any spalling, the only damage it will deal is the shot going through something, but if you're firing an APHE, you're not exactly thinking of aiming at an exact point, but rather an area. I think APHE should generate almost as much spalling as an AP would. I know it doesn't as a way to balance a bit the high damage it already does, but like, a working APHE should already kill whatever is behind the armor, whether there's spalling or not It also should generate spalling mostly in order to be useful against light armor tanks who don't detonate big rounds. You can see it whatever way you think is more balanced, but I think that if a big, slow reloading gun shoots a lightly armored vehicle, the result can't be that it just goes through it without nothing happening at all, that's just ridiculous Shaped charges like HEAT and the ATGMs have unreliable damage, as the direction and amount of spalling they generate is often lower than it should or just weird. ATGMs in particular can hit 2 different spots at the same time, and they don't even have to be close. The case I've seen while playing is, an ATGM is fired to the rear of a vehicle, hits the rear of the chassis (like, the back, not the top of the tank), and also hits the lower part of the turret. The damage is applied twice, it needs some serious fixing

[@KorporalNoobs]

I can confirm that the volumetric update makes especially sideshots on soviet mediums a absolute gamble. I had exchanges with T-44s were i got the full package of 88 long glancing of edges of non-armor structures, optics eating the whole shell, upper tracks taking the entire round without being destroyed and the, at least more historical feeling, bounce off rounded turrets that seemed like they shouldn't. My main frustration with the late ww2 german tech tree really. Armor does not scale well and damage with single shells that rely on penetration suffer especially from the consistency issue. Meanwhile speed and low profiles have no such problems which makes the lack of diversity behond rank 2 (and special tasks won't accept playing those) quite painful.

[@AndyViant]

The other day I had 3 shots in the side at a distance of under 20 metres with 190mm pen Firefly ammo against a T-34-57 point blank range for zero penetrations and zero damage. Realistic as hell, obviously.

[@KorporalNoobs]

@@AndyViant :' )

[@jefferybauduin2919]

The panzer 4 eating 4 57mm solid shot rounds from my Valentine 😮

[@adrfarling5503]

Speaking of ammo: Sweden MBTs need better apfsds

[@NMJZ]

Pretty much agree with everything you said. Although one thing to note is that the playerbase has spent a serious amount of time with the way APHE shells work in game, and some players have started the game with it as such. Changing that is going to have serious ramifications for player comfort. I don't like it, but it's true.

[@HeRRydeRR]

A good way to fix the "Volumetric Shells Vanishing when they hit get stuck between two plates" would be to add a feature that, Once an APHE Shell reaches its Maximum Penetration, It blows up, Sending a part of it's explosive filler flying inside the Tank, As usually when these things happen, There should be enough of the shell popping into the inner side of the tank for a part of the explosive filler to be able to fly inside the tank and at lease damage it. Something similar could be added to Solid AP, But with the spalling instead of the explosive

[@fuiwfnbnufjehnfojui4251]

I noticed this with the HSTVL not being able to one shot reliably with 90 degree side shots on the t80s/t72s when hitting the ammo directly

[@NeophyteNr1]

Nice work

[@Scrogan]

How about firing a 17pdr at the middle of the front of a T-34-57’s turret and getting non-penetration at close range? I don’t care how many armour plates have stacked up under there, be it 2 or even 3, there’s no way that gun doesn’t go through with its basically 200mm of penetration. Considering Russian shells and armour are vastly over performing, and British shells are vastly underperforming, I have to ask whether there actually is some sort of bias. Not necessarily towards Russian vehicles, but at least against British vehicles. The fact that the firefly is rated at a significantly lower BR than the Sherman 76 should be a dead giveaway that something isn’t right, and that’s been staring them in the face for years now. Same for the Achilles.

[@yoshineitor]

The less residual pen the less damage, thats true for "solid" shots because they "pierce" at high speeds like needles. HEAT on the other side, "injects" explosive

[@jeremeymcdude]

I also think the game has a real issue with not modelling round tumbling after hitting objects or armor. Some shot traps make sense but when you're shooting a tank from the frontal plate and somehow it glances off and hits the chin of the turret, I highly doubt that shell would actually penetrate the second plate it hits off of

[@Kuschel_K]

Another problem is that armor is sometimes modeled way too accurate or modeled in ways that don’t make sense. So a vehicle might have 80mm of armor but due to some edges in the armor a tiny spot suddenly increases the armor to 300mm. So some vehicles can get hit by rounds that can penetrate two or three times the amount of armor they have but the round will do nothing. Then you get killed because the game basically screwed you over.

[@bradenthompson2512]

Didn’t know people were having problems with this, for me apfsds gives me a pretty reliable one shot kill, or two shot

[@Aussie_1097]

I like to see apcr getting buffed, better damage and angle performance

[@laryjr1830]

Well said. Ive hit the side of the jumbo so many times with both the SU and ISU-152 and had the round vanish. I have to hit the front of the jumbo to kill it, side shots are too risky. Very frustrating

[@nathanjohnston809]

4:15 nice

[@illturralli]

Yup, this sounds abput right. Tje Obj120 has the single biggest and heaviest apfsds in the game. But it does not deal more damage than 105mm apfsds.

[@AndyViant]

Some ammo of the same type from different vehicles has glaring anomalies where the supposed "weaker" ammo by specification does far far more damage. Not just with a lucky or well placed shot, but consistently and repeatedly. When ammo with the same cap and say 20 mm less penetration manages front on penetrations again and again for one shot kills, but the supposed better ammo cannot even penetrate you have to wonder why. Why does Gaijin go out of their way to freak with specs so the numbers on the spec sheet are irrelevant to the gameplay?

[@samlambert4770]

War thunder is like skyrim, any conversation about it eventually turns to trading story's about bugs you encountered

[@spudeism]

I wish APCR would be (more) usable. Like USA designed few APCR/HVAP rounds for their 76mm and 90mm specifically against tough targets like Tigers and Panthers but as is those rounds practically pointless to use against said targets since slightest angle negates them. Like that cant be in any way realistic. Since APCR rounds irl were somewhat inaccurate and would loose velocity quickly I wonder if it would be possible to make APCR "two-stage" as in say sub-500m distances it works like the current APDS rounds and past 500m it works like the bouncy piece of crap that it is today.

[@SpardaSon21]

US APCR rounds solved the ballistics problem by putting the tungsten penetrator inside of a non-discarding sabot with ballistic windscreen. Said windscreen was also attached to a thick AP cap. Therefore, in War Thunder US APCR should use the APCBC ballistics and slope modifiers as a result of their design and construction, since well... they had ballistic and AP caps.