Tomcats 4, Libya 0 - The Real Story of the Gulf of Sidra Incidents

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Ward Carroll

Ward Carroll

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 1 700
@mikehiggins104
@mikehiggins104 3 жыл бұрын
Ward, great, as always. One slight change. I was at VX-4 with Hank, running his Hornet Tactics Development shop. They were so new we still were flying with beta flight control software (didn’t yet understand transonic flight-another story). Hank was flying Pt Mugu to Miramar, rainy day. Had a planing link failure on takeoff. At that time, there were no indications to the pilot. The cause was the brakes hadn’t completely stopped tire rotation when the gear retracted. The forces exerted bent the planing link. Once gear down at Miramar, that gear was now toed in 18 degrees, but he didn’t know. Once he lost rudder effectiveness (about 80knots) the misalignment took charge and he started doing 360’s. It’s here that old habits and new airplanes bit Hank. As a Phantom and Tomcat guy, we flew low CG lead sleds. Prevailing philosophy was “leaving the runway, ride it out unless you were gonna hit something”. The Hornet sits higher, on more narrow gear, and is much more tippy. Had we thought it out in advance, he would have been ready to eject leaving the runway. And maybe alive today. Alas, at VX-4, we didn’t figure this out in time for Hank. Cheers, Sluggo
@WardCarroll
@WardCarroll 3 жыл бұрын
Good gouge, Sluggo. Thanks.
@mikehiggins104
@mikehiggins104 3 жыл бұрын
To clear up another point about the final bit of Hank’s death… When the Hornet left the runway, 90 degrees to direction of travel, the main and nose gear dug into the mud. The airplane then stood up on one wingtip and the radome, and just stopped, perfectly vertical. Then, the radome broke off sideways. This pulled the canopy jettison cable, which popped the canopy. Hank didn’t pull it, and the safety report found it still stowed. The plane then slowly fell on its top. Hank’s neck was broken in the impact, high (not sure of the level). It’s true his head was in muddy water, but couldn’t have lived with the spinal injury anyway. Hope this helps. TINS, Sluggo
@Lucid95642
@Lucid95642 3 жыл бұрын
This bring back memories! I served in VF-41 Black Aces from 1994-1997. This story was told during my tour in the squadron. 20 years Navy. Thank you Sir for the great story. Forever Tomcat!
@ericgulseth74
@ericgulseth74 3 жыл бұрын
I love how brutally honest the flight community is. Only way to get better.
@Weapon10X
@Weapon10X 3 жыл бұрын
All highly functional organizations have this culture. It’s critically important to be able to exceed the standard. The word of caution is that those involved must also feel supported and free of persecution, otherwise honesty becomes a problem.
@whydoyougottahavthis
@whydoyougottahavthis 3 жыл бұрын
Would you like to know why?
@ericgulseth74
@ericgulseth74 3 жыл бұрын
@@Weapon10X Good point. A safety program is no good if people are afraid of getting in trouble. It's why it's one of the cornerstones of our safety program at work.
@passattdise
@passattdise 2 жыл бұрын
It's called code of honor and integrity.
@TheNecromancer6666
@TheNecromancer6666 2 жыл бұрын
Navy and Airforce value that their performance is based on complex technologie and science. And they always encourage people to learn and get better. Whole sadly in the army that's usually not the case.
@bobroyes589
@bobroyes589 Жыл бұрын
That still shot with 202's kill marking on the nose was actually taken by myself. At the time I was with a Navy reserve unit out of NY assigned to JFK. We arrived a little while after the incident. Flying from the US in a C-141 into Sigonella and on to the boat via C-2, then riding JFK to Norfolk. I submitted that shot , amongst others to Navsource. You have a great channel here, but as an old Phantom Phixer I would like to see something of F-4's done. I always thought that the video recording released back then sounded a little off, but that just an old metal smith/plane captain's opinion.
@kCI251
@kCI251 3 ай бұрын
I bet Ward could find plenty of Phantom drivers to interview.
@RedTail1-1
@RedTail1-1 Ай бұрын
I mean... He never flew in the F-4 so what can he really contribute to that conversation?.. He's an F-14 RIO and that's what he knows so that's what he talks about.
@bobstephenson4391
@bobstephenson4391 3 жыл бұрын
Old Marine Cobra guy here. I was in college when the first incident happened and was doing a FAC tour when the second one happened. Great brief! My son is a F-18D WSO at Beaufort right now (grad TOPGUN Dec’19, WTI Oct ‘20). One of my daughters is a MH-60S driver in the screaming Indians, just came off of Nimitz, another daughter is a E-2C NFO currently in the Screwtops on the Ike. I will send this to them!
@nickdannunzio7683
@nickdannunzio7683 3 жыл бұрын
I worked with a USMC Cobra Pilot (Verizon), in Philly, he was done active and was a reservist at Willow Grove, his ACO was one of my coworkers (same company)... I was a reservist Seabee also drilling at WG... after getting them a copy of my orders and pentagram... I was able to go for a ride... we went to McGuire... one of the most awesome experiences of my life...
@bend1483
@bend1483 3 жыл бұрын
Now that’s a pretty cool family!
@WardCarroll
@WardCarroll 3 жыл бұрын
Awesome, Bob. Thanks, Marine!
@bobstephenson4391
@bobstephenson4391 3 жыл бұрын
@@WardCarroll Do you know Flex Destafney and/or Butch Kissick?
@WardCarroll
@WardCarroll 3 жыл бұрын
@@bobstephenson4391 Yes. (Butch better than Flex.)
@ytbonsig
@ytbonsig 3 жыл бұрын
Great breakdown of the incident. I was the senior intruder on the next launch. If you’re interested, I can tell you “the rest of story” … some crazy stuff.
@jeffreynorthrop9518
@jeffreynorthrop9518 2 ай бұрын
We are definitely interested in hearing "the rest of the story " . Thank you for your service!
@Patjza80
@Patjza80 16 күн бұрын
YES! I’d love to hear it!
@brendanstewart5074
@brendanstewart5074 3 жыл бұрын
I've listened to this exchange at least 10-20 times in the past, you giving the full context regarding ROE and other protocols was hugely helpful. Thank you.
@KutWrite
@KutWrite 3 жыл бұрын
...also seeing an unedited version helps.
@vtwinbuilder3129
@vtwinbuilder3129 3 жыл бұрын
This really is the best telling of these incidents I’ve ever heard. Makes it considerably easier to understand the way he described it.
@mandoreforger6999
@mandoreforger6999 3 жыл бұрын
I had heard that the first Fox1 had malfunctioned, but it seems that it was probably not the case.
@vtwinbuilder3129
@vtwinbuilder3129 3 жыл бұрын
@@mandoreforger6999 I guess that depends on how liberal the definition of malfunction is being applied. It sounds more like operator error to me as well to be honest.
@jimpalmer1969
@jimpalmer1969 3 жыл бұрын
@@vtwinbuilder3129 There were errors to be sure. In 1989 the state of the military was pretty green. Not to be negative about our service members, but the US had not been in any major actions since the end of Viet Nam in 1972. There really wasn't anyone on active duty that had seen action. Things changed in the 1990s.
@jamierife7789
@jamierife7789 3 жыл бұрын
Wow, I've watched and listened to the video/audio of the January 1989 incident many, many times, and never knew before now what a clusterfark it really was. Thanks for the insight and analysis, Ward!
@Spike_au
@Spike_au 3 жыл бұрын
Glad to see this channel growing. Probably the best, most well articulated, least self absorbed, no bull stories and informative videos from an ex aviator on you tube. Keep the content coming!
@anthonysaponaro6318
@anthonysaponaro6318 3 жыл бұрын
One of the very best and informative on the tube period. Full stop !
@SimDeck
@SimDeck 3 жыл бұрын
Can't stand Mover. Self absorbed beyond belief.
@jaazielgarcia3938
@jaazielgarcia3938 2 жыл бұрын
Smooch is awesome .. I also recommend the 10 percent true podcast :D
@dukeofearl4117
@dukeofearl4117 3 жыл бұрын
Ward, thanks for the great stories. I’m a former AQ, then worked as a software development engineer for Grumman on the A6E, EA6-B and the F14. My career was amazing. I’m a retired guitar player now.
@tscott6843
@tscott6843 3 жыл бұрын
Former Marine (20 year) avionics guy here. I was in the Corps when both of these incidents occurred, so I can be pretty objective. Great episode. I really like that you tell the good and the bad in the episodes I’ve seen thus far. I subscribed and rang the bell (rare for me).
@jhmcglynn
@jhmcglynn 3 жыл бұрын
What? A Former Marine? I joined a flying club in Bridgeport Connecticut in 1990 that was run by an elderly retired Korean War era Marine Corsair pilot. I told him I “My uncle Bob is an ex-marine”. He said, “Son, there are no ex-Marines. Once a Marine, always a Marine”. I never made that mistake again.
@desertodavid
@desertodavid 3 жыл бұрын
@@jhmcglynn my thoughts exactly. I'm also a retired Marine who served in the Avionics community. I can't believe that any career Marine from my Leatherneck era (1976-1997) would refer to themselves as anything but a Marine.
@just_one_opinion
@just_one_opinion 2 жыл бұрын
Everybody says those kinds of ra ra cliche's. I joined during Desert Shield into armor (recruiter sgt Schwartz) lied and said combat arms is armor. I was a dumb kid who believed all Marines had honor. I spent 4 years active and 4 reserve in the Combat Engineers mos1371. Got to see the world though, Subic bay after Pinatubo blew, Okinawa and we even had a hand in 94 in Bosnia and Somalia with GW battlegroup on a med float. Older you get more you realize all the "actions" were sorry ass posturing's by undisciplined disgusting civilian garbage leaders playing with our guys' lives. Just to make some shekkels by special interests in the next election. That bitch over, Semper Fidelis....Always Faithfull to my brothers and sisters.
@hectorcontreras7216
@hectorcontreras7216 3 жыл бұрын
I’m a military history enthusiast and glad to hear from someone who has firsthand account or has walked in the shoes of a naval pilot !!! THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!
@Deafwing
@Deafwing 3 жыл бұрын
I'm not entirely sure why your channel popped up in my suggestions, but I'm really glad it did.
@IROCZSPEED
@IROCZSPEED 3 жыл бұрын
Ditto
@steelbre
@steelbre 3 жыл бұрын
L
@imouse3246
@imouse3246 3 жыл бұрын
It was interesting, no question.
@garymarkz4672
@garymarkz4672 3 жыл бұрын
Same here. I'll drop one for the algos
@charon669bb
@charon669bb 3 жыл бұрын
I'm glad too.
@danmiller7079
@danmiller7079 3 жыл бұрын
Hello Ward, was examining the vast world of KZbin when I found your channel. As a Veteran of the United States Marine Corps during the mid seventies, I had the honor of serving aboard two war ships; U.S.S. New Orleans (LPH 11) and the U.S.S. Duluth (LPD 6). Even though I was a grunt Marine, I still love military aircraft especially F-4’s, CH-46 & 53’s, AH-1 Cobra’s, and OV-10 Bronco’s. When we were on the New Orleans, we even had a couple of AV-8 Harriers. What a treat. Also had the “pleasure” of watching an SR-71 take off from Kadena AFB, Okinawa. Have a great night, Sir. Also subscribed.
@just_one_opinion
@just_one_opinion 2 жыл бұрын
Naha Radio aka the stage....Semper fi!
@madaxe606
@madaxe606 3 жыл бұрын
Really, really appreciate the no-bull, no-ego breakdown of these events. Very obvious that you are a quality instructor who understands how ro make complex ideas understandable to a lay audience. Thank you!
@heydonray
@heydonray 3 жыл бұрын
You know something bad is coming up when you hear “We will just call him Steve...”
@Walter_E_Kurtz
@Walter_E_Kurtz 3 жыл бұрын
He was saying that in the exact moment that I was reading your comment.
@Leo_Pard_A4
@Leo_Pard_A4 3 жыл бұрын
That was what I was thinking too.
@Dennis-vh8tz
@Dennis-vh8tz 3 жыл бұрын
Though, in the end, it wasn't Steve who's actions were questionable.
@heydonray
@heydonray 3 жыл бұрын
@@Dennis-vh8tz I think you missed something. The scenario is a bit hard to follow but yeah, it was “Steve”, who’s real name I know from folks who are thoroughly informed and who rec’d training on the foul up so as not to repeat it.
@Andrew-13579
@Andrew-13579 3 жыл бұрын
@@heydonray What foul up? I’m missing it too. “Steve” is “wing” RIO, right? I listened to this a few times, and I never caught anything that “Steve” did at all, other than apparently fire a Sparrow from 4 miles which blew up one of the MiG-23’s (1200 kts closure is 1 nm every 3 seconds). That was after lead RIO fired two Sparrows at the other MiG, that didn’t guide, apparently. And then, finally, lead pilot can’t figure out why he can’t get a Sidewinder tone. Switch misconfig , right? Flips switch, growl, tone, fire in like 2 seconds. Did he flip to SW with the trigger squeezed? Almost like, luckily the Sidewinder did just pickup the lock before it left the rail, right? But...what did “Steve” do wrong?? I’m just not tracking.
@Darrylshaw
@Darrylshaw 3 жыл бұрын
I am so glad I found this channel. I cherish my ONE carrier landing (helo) as a journalist passenger aboard USS Constellation in 1986. Listening to Ward and Dale Snodgrass is an education in itself. I have been doing standup comedy for 10 years and nothing is more fun than sitting at a table after a few drinks and hearing stories from your peers. You think you know it all but hear something you didn't know every time. It's that way watching these videos. THANK YOU Commander Carroll.
@morganottlii2390
@morganottlii2390 Жыл бұрын
Thank You for your service!👍🇱🇷💯
@earl2688
@earl2688 Жыл бұрын
I enjoy your commentary. As a former AWG-10 fire control tech, it's interesting to hear you talk about the AWG-9 and then compare the two in my mind (I always wondered why the older jet had the AWG-10 designation and the newer one got the AWG-9). Loved the multi-scan mode of that AWG-9 and would have enjoyed working on that but as a Marine, that was not to be. I noticed that the F-14 weapons select on the stick is different than the F-4J/S and in any event an F-4 pilot would not have missed the fox-2 call -- because he would be the one pulling the trigger (since the RIO on the Phantom couldn't fire any missiles). I'd seen a raw video on that 1989 Gulf of Sidra shootdown previously and I remember hearing the call for "master arm on" and recollecting instantly where that switch was on the instrument panel of the F-4 (covered with a red hinged latch if memory serves) and knowing that war had just been declared!
@andrewreinacher8679
@andrewreinacher8679 3 жыл бұрын
I was working at the base comm center at RAF Mildenhall UK on that day when Operation El Dorado Canyon was launched. I actually notified the base Command Post and the Wing Commander that we had received the launch order for the mission itself. Mildenhall supported the mission with in air refueling of the F-111's and air reconnaissance from the SR-71 Black Bird. My shift crew and I all received the Air Force Commendation Medal for our participation that day! That was the proudest day of my Air Force career.
@BigTrain175
@BigTrain175 3 жыл бұрын
I was a shift supervisor at the base commcenter at RAF Chicksands back then, but it was my day off. Didn't know anything had happened until the next day. When I arrived at the base main gate there were SPs in full combat gear and carrying automatic weapons.
@MattH-wg7ou
@MattH-wg7ou 3 жыл бұрын
My dad was a weapons loader and loaded and or pulled pins/armed the bombs on the F111s that participated in El Dorado Canyon. He hasnt told me all the details.
@curtm3010
@curtm3010 3 жыл бұрын
I clearly recall the SR-71 pass for recon on the SPS-48 on BIDDLE. We huddled around the scope and got 3 blips during the transit....and that was about a 400 mil track within out view.
@puterbac
@puterbac 3 жыл бұрын
I was in HS and remember France and Spain refused overflight rights which caused multiple refueling to get there and back. Do you think the additional hours flying time contributed to the lost F111? Was the French building “accidentally” hit?
@MattH-wg7ou
@MattH-wg7ou 3 жыл бұрын
@@puterbac my 3rd hand hearsay knowledge of it was that the extra hours and nav/ins drift(?) could have contributed to the loss.
@MrJules2U
@MrJules2U 3 жыл бұрын
This is the type of analytical info that most people don't get to see. Really interesting to watch, and graciously narrated. Thankyou Ward.
@jameshisself9324
@jameshisself9324 3 жыл бұрын
Well presented, and I appreciate your candor in describing the less than favorable aspects of the 2nd encounter.
@WardCarroll
@WardCarroll 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, James. Appreciate the support.
@The_Tau
@The_Tau 2 жыл бұрын
@@WardCarroll Hey Carroll, great explanation, but could you clarify how could only 1 sparrow be guided at one time? I thought they only require CW to illuminate the target as they are SARH, so how could 2 missiles interfere with each other? As you also try to fly DCS, you may notice that in DCS you can happily guide 2 AIM7s at the same time. Is that wrong? Or was there an upgrade to radar or something? Thanks
@thomasgray9934
@thomasgray9934 2 жыл бұрын
Mr. Carrol...I Really enjoyed this video. I was a PR in the early 90's. I had the honor of serving with VF-41 and VF-102 as the PR Shop LPO. When I was with VF-102, my Skipper was the RIO you describe as "Steve" in your video. He was a great skipper. I also had the honor of caring for Capt. Copeland's flight gear while on board USS America for our Med Cruise. Working for two "Mig Killers" was an honor I didn't take lightly. My skipper even showed me his log book from the 89 shoot down where the entries were marked in red. I really enjoy your videos. It really takes me back to the glory days of serving in Tomcat Squardons. Bravo Zulu Shipmate...
@dl6519
@dl6519 3 жыл бұрын
Despite having watched videos on these incidents many times before, I learned multiple big things about what was going on from this video that I was completely unaware of, one of which is this: If you want something explained clearly and thoroughly and succinctly, ask a RIO to explain it! AWESOME video, subscribed!
@jamesjohnsen2021
@jamesjohnsen2021 Жыл бұрын
I found you on KZbin and now I see value in it. This particular video strikes close to home with me. You and I were both on the JFK at the same time. I was in VS-22 and flew a com relay mission while all of this was happening. Totally oblivious to what was going on not too far from where we were flying our racetrack and making sure the A-6s could communicate back to our ship. We received a briefing in the S-3 ready room from the four crew members involved. It was enlightening to non-fighter aircrew. I still have my copy of the gun camera video and soundtrack too.
@Amar7605
@Amar7605 3 жыл бұрын
Wow... a very sobering analysis of the 1989 incident. For a lifelong Tomcat and military aviation buff, your story was a splash of cold water for me. Nevertheless, I really appreciate you telling us because it was very educational and thought-provoking. Thank you, Sir!
@malleygz3991
@malleygz3991 3 жыл бұрын
Same for me, but I serve in the military and specifically the Navy, so I'm not at all surprised by the facts of what actually happened. I'm sure the investigations into what happened, and associated missteps helped to refocus training, procedures, and operations.
@shengyi1701
@shengyi1701 3 жыл бұрын
They got too excited but good thing that the Libyans were not up for it as well!
@arnie24070127
@arnie24070127 3 жыл бұрын
Hey Mooch, as a student of combat in general (given my previous profession) it is absolutely fascinating listening to you break these down. I know you're a tomcat guy but could you do more like this? Talking about TTP, theoretical to practical application there of, and engagements in general. Doesn't have to be modern. Sort of a Mooch's dogfights show.
@trumanhw
@trumanhw Жыл бұрын
Yup ... I didn't realize that the RIO not only manages but controls (makes the decisions) re: weapons.
@kiwidiesel
@kiwidiesel 3 жыл бұрын
That was a great listen thanks Ward. That tone for lock on would have to be one of the most chilling sounds I've ever heard, no mistaking the intent in the sound.
@leonardmoore2833
@leonardmoore2833 3 жыл бұрын
Ward, really enjoy these post mortems. I was a RIO with VF-51 Screaming Eagles back in the early 90's. I knew about the pilot's switchology issue, but didn't know about the TWS delay causing the incorrect interpretation of the bogey's vector until I saw your video. Very cool. An idea for a sea story: Recall that Bug Roach had a Mae West parachute when he ejected from an A-4 back around '93. He was an LSO legend around Miramar, and his was a tragic loss. I'd like to hear more about how that happened. Thanks and keep up the good work! Lenny "Lipo" Moore.
@DSherman911
@DSherman911 3 жыл бұрын
I can’t begin to tell you how much I enjoy listening to you talk about the Navy and the Tomcat. Top Gun was such a huge influence on me at a young age. It’s awesome to hear about all of the intricacies and details that you experienced. More Tom Cat and aviation videos, please. Thank you.
@guaporeturns9472
@guaporeturns9472 3 жыл бұрын
If you want badass Tomcat stories you should research Iran’s Tomcat use. Iranian Tomcats were involved in much more combat than American ones. Maybe you already know this.
@DSToNe19and83
@DSToNe19and83 3 жыл бұрын
@@guaporeturns9472 hey, if I was them I’d make good use of those bad boys too!
@guaporeturns9472
@guaporeturns9472 3 жыл бұрын
@@DSToNe19and83 they have been kicking ass with them for years.. not sure if they are still in service or not .. getting kinda old and they have to fabricate all their own spare parts these days.
@billscott356
@billscott356 3 жыл бұрын
Once again, Ward, great analysis. I recall both of these incidents through the "right now" media. Through time you've been able to put out a great description of the events and describe how nuanced they are/were. Absolutely wonderful analysis! I appreciate that!
@tomusmc1993
@tomusmc1993 3 жыл бұрын
Holy smokes what a great inside contextual walk through. As a former active duty Marine, I well know reality differs from media version or civilian version. Awesome...
@mightyjimbo7681
@mightyjimbo7681 3 жыл бұрын
I've listened to the 1989 incident comms many times but thanks for putting everything in context. It make more sense now.
@williamhcollins2010
@williamhcollins2010 3 жыл бұрын
Hey Ward, I was an S-3 NFO during this time on a PACFLEET carrier at the time. Had a buddy on on staff whom told me the whole story as well. Thanks for going into great detail!
@WardCarroll
@WardCarroll 3 жыл бұрын
You're welcome, William.
@Geneusmc
@Geneusmc 3 жыл бұрын
Mooch, I really enjoy your channel. I served in the Marines from 68-72 as a Sergeant working on F4-J AWG-10 Fire Control Systems, my last squadron was VMFA-232 before their last tour in Vietnam. I loved what I did, but I am sorry to say not every Marine did. We had a hanger queen with a down radar that no one could fix for nearly 3-months. I had heard it had been sabotaged by a short timer so I decided I will troubleshoot the radar around the clock until it was repaired. The Westinghouse tech rep and I worked on this bird for days. Finally, as we scoped every signal in and out of the system, I discovered that one side of a connector in the receiver tracking logic had a good signal, but on the other side of the connector it did not. The SOB that sabotaged the system had reversed two coax cables. He is fortunate I did not know his name else I would have contacted the CID long ago. The radar came up, we up’d the aircraft, and she flew a sortie the very next day. Whoever you are I hope you see this post, you failed, that aircraft flew many missions after you tried to sabotage it. I have just one question for you - WHY?
@jawarapittman6889
@jawarapittman6889 2 жыл бұрын
You may never know, someone will out that guy.
@burprobrox9134
@burprobrox9134 3 жыл бұрын
Wow glad I found this channel. Growing up in the 80s the Tomcat was my obsession haha. Watched Top Gun a trillion times, had a ton of models, no chance of being a pilot due to some health issues, but always loved it. I’m really happy to hear your stories, thanks for sharing.
@roberthedman894
@roberthedman894 2 жыл бұрын
I was a member of VF-41 from 1988-1991. I really have been enjoying the videos on your channel! Thank you for all you have done and continue to do!
@greggutting1796
@greggutting1796 3 жыл бұрын
Fast Eagle 102, from the 1981 incident, is on static display at the Midland Army Air Field Museum, Midland, TX. The plane captain at the time of the incident, J.R. Baxter, is one of a group of flight deck veterans who did a cosmetic restoration a few years ago. Dave Venlet, along with some folks from the Nimitz, attended the unveiling after the restoration.
@ajchenmph
@ajchenmph 3 жыл бұрын
Trivia: at the time of the shootdown, 102 had the XO's name painted on it (he subsequently became skipper of VF-41), who became my NROTC CO in 1992-1993. He likes to say the shootdown happened 5 minutes too early, as he was inbound to relieve Kleeman and "Music". I've kept in touch with him over the years, and was able to catch up with him about 5 years ago while I was TDY/TAD in his area, where he told me exactly what happened with Kleeman's mishap (I've since forgotten all the details). He is still doing pretty well overall (had an email exchange with him about 6 months before the pandemic).
@greggutting1796
@greggutting1796 3 жыл бұрын
She has Cdr Hank Kleeman as pilot and Lt Dave Venlet as RIO. Names painted along bottom of cockpit. I have a photo, but don’t know how to post it.
@ajchenmph
@ajchenmph 3 жыл бұрын
Makes sense since they were flying it that day. But carrier tradition is that the CAG has his/her name painted on 100, the squadron CO on 101, and the squadron XO on 102. And then you fly whatever bird you're assigned that day, not necessarily "your" jet.
@get2dachoppa249
@get2dachoppa249 3 жыл бұрын
Wasn't Kleemans accident something to do with hydroplaning on landing, the aircraft departed the runway, & flipped upside down?
@ajchenmph
@ajchenmph 3 жыл бұрын
@@get2dachoppa249 - yep, combined with a gear malfunction or something else that wasn't right with the jet. Again, forget the details.
@landrum3893
@landrum3893 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent. BEST analysis of the Sidra incidents Ive ever heard. I was aboard the Kennedy for the '89 incident as an AT for VA-75 an A-6E squadron. It was a surreal time. Over the 1MC, we heard them announce scramble 2 more F-14s (Ive forgotten the exact words) so there were the 2 F-14s already out there and 2 more on the way but it all happened so fast. In the following hours and days we were all thinking that there could be further action of some kind. Anyway, very interesting and revealing analysis. Facepalms and funny banter between the pilot and RIO. Thank you, sir
@jimpalmer1969
@jimpalmer1969 3 жыл бұрын
I've heard this story from another pilot who was flying off the Kennedy that day. My brother was an A-6 driver in VMA-533. His part of the mission was to act as the bait to trick the Migs to be sortied. He showed me the full air camera video that you showed clips from. He was very critical of this whole escapade. My older brother was an AQ in VA-165 (USS Constellation), my younger brother was a pilot in VMA-533 (USS Kennedy) and I was an ADJ in VA-52 (USS Kitty Hawk). Funny how we all wound up in A-6s. Thanks for the detail. It filled in the blanks. I will share this with my brother.
@WardCarroll
@WardCarroll 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Jim. Both my father and father in law flew A-6s too.
@ricardotomascaballero2238
@ricardotomascaballero2238 3 жыл бұрын
Dr. Ricardo Caballero - I've listened to few of you presentations and I'm very well impressed! You talk like a proud pro and I like that!!! I was an Airline Pilot in Aerolineas Argentinas in my capacity as a First Officer on board the Boeing 737-200 Advanced, when the South Atlantic Conflict with Great Britain broke out in 1982. A few 737s and the reserve Officer pilots were chosen to join the Argentine Air Force Tactical Military Transport Wing in order to deploy ground forces in the Malvinas Islands (known as Falklands to the British). I had a Military Rank as a Lieutenant in the Reserve so I was called to duty with other military background pilots. Those days were days of high intensity and dedicated professional performance in the war zone. Some of the attack missions that were carried out by other classmates in the Argentine Air Force are absolutely mind blowing!!!!! I am proud of having served my country. The workhorse of the Navy and Air Force was the old and venerable Douglas A-4 Skyhawk that flown by the text book, pushed to its maximum capacity by pilots that were totally committed to overcome the third world military power in the World in 1982. By the way, none were "suicide missions”!!!! Not at all! Knowing the real facts will make any fighter pilot really proud...!!!!!!
@WardCarroll
@WardCarroll 3 жыл бұрын
Amazing story, Ricardo. Thanks for sharing it here.
@ricardotomascaballero2238
@ricardotomascaballero2238 3 жыл бұрын
@@WardCarroll Thank you for your videos and the excellent technical and human sharing of the events. One further comment regarding the 1982 Conflict with the UK. The reason why the Argentine NAVY pilots were so effective in the South Atlantic OPS is twofold: 1. they were superbly qualified with the USN Aviation standards for carrier OPS and tactics and weapons delivery and 2. The Navy pilots knew the South Atlantic Ocean like the palms of their hands!!!! They carried the USN training syllabus for the A-4Qs into the AMD Super Etendard armed with the Exocet Sea skimming missiles. Argentina was the first Latin American country to include two British built aircraft carriers in its inventory since 1958…! My email is: dr@rtcaballero.com.ar It will be terrific to exchange experiences. "Keep the blue side up"
@sc1784
@sc1784 3 жыл бұрын
Great explanation of those two events. I have watched the tapes before, but getting the play-by-play made it understandable. Nice job Ward.
@EvilWhiteGuy7.62
@EvilWhiteGuy7.62 3 жыл бұрын
Glad I found this Channel... While I have no experience in Aviation,the guy who lived next door When i was 13-15, was a f16 pilot with the 308th Emerald knights out of Luke. Code name raptor, first name Scott. Anyway he got me in the f16 SIM and let me go threw a few take offs and maneuvers...I used to watch his dog when he was away. Very nice guy. took me through their whole office, briefing room, lockers, flight deck, maintenance yard, ECT.... He actually made cap. And moved to Belgium to train their pilots
@Void304
@Void304 3 жыл бұрын
I've seen this footage several times, and I understand enough brevity that I've been able to follow along, but I've never had someone who really understands what happened walk me through it before. Thanks.
@mikecoolack7870
@mikecoolack7870 3 жыл бұрын
I was onboard the USS Nimitz in AIMD IM 2 division jet shop during the first encounter with Liba. Brings back memories. Like your channel, especially your discussions on my favorite bird the F 14. I tested the TF 30 P414 A/ TF 41/T 58 and J 52 for years on that carrier. I also got the chance to test the first GE Tomcat motor at Norfolk jet engine test facility before leaving the aviation community in 1988. The other birds that I tested were the T56 ,P8 and 408 in the P3 Orion/E-2 C Hawkeye. I was also stationed at willowgrove PA and Naval air station Brunswick ME. Keep up the great work with your channel. Respectfully. AD2 Mike Coolack USN Retired
@richardgeorge179
@richardgeorge179 3 жыл бұрын
Was onboard USS Nimitz as a jet mech with the Black Aces when the 1981 shoot down happened. I was assigned to the jet shop (AIMD)so I also worked on engines for the Jolly Rogers too.
@acsxfan1
@acsxfan1 3 жыл бұрын
Richard -- another Nimitz sailor .. worked up in weather shop -- do you remember the GQ they called after this happened?
@richardgeorge179
@richardgeorge179 3 жыл бұрын
@@acsxfan1 Yes I do because the Chief told us to "Tie down the coffee pot "and if we got the right story the aircraft were friendly from the other carrier that was operating with us.
@acsxfan1
@acsxfan1 3 жыл бұрын
@@richardgeorge179 Thats the way I understood it as well . I think it might have been Saratoga ..
@richcook2007
@richcook2007 3 жыл бұрын
I was in S-2 when this happened.
@toddf9321
@toddf9321 3 жыл бұрын
@@acsxfan1 USS Forrestal CV-59 at your service! Took station to the South while Nimitz steamed to the Northwest at an unbelievable speed. We stayed at GQ for 12 hours (Battle messing has to be experienced!).
@WTF....1982
@WTF....1982 3 жыл бұрын
Never once heard this version of the incident. THANK YOU FOR TELLING US THE TRUTH!
@hangtime_31
@hangtime_31 3 жыл бұрын
It's one thing to watch the news about these incidents on TV right after the events and quite another to have an experienced person such as yourself take the time to calmly and professionally break them down and explain the what and why of them. I found this very educational. Thank you for you service.
@MaxSterling01
@MaxSterling01 3 жыл бұрын
I remember that CNN did a broadcast when they got the video. Breaking story and all that. They didn't preview the tape before putting it on air. First round you got the "I don't have a F^&king lock" next time it was bleeped. LMAO.
@ame01
@ame01 2 жыл бұрын
I was glued to my seat for both. Thanks for the stories. They’re riveting.
@georgeo929
@georgeo929 3 жыл бұрын
I’m so glad that I stumbled onto one of your videos. I’m former navy and in a navy family and I’m old enough to know who VF84 was and I also know that VF41 was their sister squadron. I’m now subscribed on your channel. Keep the stories coming I enjoy watching you tell them from a much different perspective.
@Bat21bravo
@Bat21bravo 3 жыл бұрын
I was AO/WESPAC 1981/G-1 DIV/WEAPONS DEPT/CV-64. We had large buttons made that showed a pic of an AIM-9 Sidewinder. Button said : NAVY - 2, Libya - 0. Just seemed to make it all worth while. Your teaching skills are top notch Commander. FLY NAVY.
@richsanchez622
@richsanchez622 2 жыл бұрын
I enjoy your channel very much. I have no experience in the military or aviation for that matter. I appreciate men like you very much. My brother was a door gunner on a helicopter in the late 60’s in Vietnam. He never talks about it. And my Dad was a US marine that fought on Iwo Jima . I really had no idea what that really meant until I started reading the accounts of the battles he must have been in. Thanks for your service and the education.
@clemrod3273
@clemrod3273 3 жыл бұрын
I've watched this video several times, never had it explained like you did. Thank you enjoyed it very much!
@WardCarroll
@WardCarroll 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching, Robert.
@clemrod3273
@clemrod3273 3 жыл бұрын
@@WardCarroll I served on USS Saratoga was a MR2. Machinery Repairman. Did a med cruise in 92.
@duffelbag5682
@duffelbag5682 2 ай бұрын
was waiting to see a real opinion on this, searched up ward carroll gulf of sidra and got the answer, thanks for being my news source
@andyfisher1911
@andyfisher1911 3 жыл бұрын
Ward once again a great explanation of the two incidents, especially the second one, which l always thought was very confusing! Now l’m very clear of what actually happened. Thank you, keep up the great work!
@WardCarroll
@WardCarroll 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Andy!
@xenozombie6200
@xenozombie6200 3 жыл бұрын
I've read a lot about the Gulf of Sidra incidents, but this is a whole new perspective. Thank you.
@WardCarroll
@WardCarroll 3 жыл бұрын
You’re welcome, Xeno! Thanks for watching!
@12Agonzo
@12Agonzo 3 жыл бұрын
Clemann didn't die taxiing. He was landing at Miramar during the early days of the F/A-18. He was CO of VXE-9 out of Mugu at the time and doing Evals of the Hornet. There was an issue with the Hornet's landing gear that this accident identified. The rain puddled on 24R and the gear problem caused the plane to get sideways, it hit the mud on the edge of the runway, the right main mount dug into the mud and it flipped over. The accident actually broke his neck. I worked for COMFIT, RADM NEWMAN, who owned Miramar at the time and had to run over and pick him up at the dentist and to get him over to the recovery of this Class A accident. A sad and unfortunate thing that happened to a great aviator.
@antiskell
@antiskell 3 жыл бұрын
Only a thumbs up for the info ... rip that dude
@1truemoose
@1truemoose 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the information.
@Andrew-13579
@Andrew-13579 3 жыл бұрын
So where does the story come from that he died taxiing? Disappointing that it gets told wrong. I’m not blaming the channel author, here; because maybe he got bad info, too. Too bad CDR Kleemann didn’t pull the ejection handle and get out when it went sideways. But maybe he already knew he was going to flip and didn’t want to be shot into the mud.
@LuvBorderCollies
@LuvBorderCollies 3 жыл бұрын
@@Andrew-13579 "The Rumor Mill"
@vtwinbuilder3129
@vtwinbuilder3129 3 жыл бұрын
His name is spelled “Kleeman” though....
@johnnyzippo7109
@johnnyzippo7109 Жыл бұрын
So I was born in 79’ , my really close friend was born in 81’ , anyways , at least once a month or so , we spend about and hour or more , on the phone , just talking Tomcat , this is how much the F-14 means to Gen X Americans , we absolutely love this combat aircraft , F-14 is American exceptionalism , thank you for the incredible content . So I watch your channel , and then I spend an hour or more every month talking to him about what I learn from you .
@Brandon_SoMD
@Brandon_SoMD 3 жыл бұрын
I had the pleasure of working with LT 'DJ' Venlet when he was a test pilot. (He retired as a Rear Admiral.) DJ was the back-seater of one of the F-14s from the first pair of kills. He actually got upgraded from F-14 RIO to F-14 pilot after the incident. He was a great guy, and one of the best pilots I've ever known, for his integrity and personal character and how excellently he treated everyone. We heard these stories from him firsthand. Amazing.
@greatgandalf5233
@greatgandalf5233 3 жыл бұрын
Ward good videos, really bring back memories! My dad was an exchange USMC NFO /RIO and taught Britain Radar Intercept/Night Intercepts to the Royal Airforce. He had the most Red Hours(Than most Aviators) Three tours in Vietnam had a toll on my father and he died a year after Retirement, 33 years of heroic flight. He motivated me to become a NFO and NATOPs / Mission Commander/ Nuclear Safety Officer offered Weapons Tactics Instructor it the Top Gun for Attack Pilots to stay in the USMC. I had lost 40% of flight class to A6E accidents. My call sign was Gandalf and I flew for VMA-242 Bats. I could of been a pilot, Three Star General was my over watch because my dad saved his life twice. I became a A6E Bombardier/ Navigator NFO most in the respect I had for my dad. Col Austin O Gandy, My name Brett Gandy(The man Moscow fears the most)
@jawarapittman6889
@jawarapittman6889 2 жыл бұрын
You and your late father are VERY COOL.
@CallsignJoNay
@CallsignJoNay 3 жыл бұрын
That's really interesting about the TWS anomaly. I didn't know about that. Great breakdown, thanks for the video. Keep the Tomcat content coming!
@budone7449
@budone7449 3 жыл бұрын
Amazing explanation of what actually happened!!! Thank you also for serving our country!!!! We The people would not be...without your service!!!! God bless you!!
@kilianortmann9979
@kilianortmann9979 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for this video, since I heard of this incident, I tried to wrap my head around this. I've watched it on the history channel and looked at diagrams and public reports and the geometry never quite made sense to me. Your insight let me finally lay this puzzle to rest, sometimes highly intelligent people can be their own worst enemy
@WardCarroll
@WardCarroll 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Killian.
@caryladd863
@caryladd863 3 жыл бұрын
I was onboard USS Nimitz from 1979-80 assigned to VAQ-134. I worked the flight deck from Sept 79 to March 80. I completely remember those days and the ship was working with the mercenaries that flew their helos into Iran. I appreciate that you flew during that time. The CO of VF-41 and the other guy were from the same squadron because I remember seeing them on the cruise that I was on. Thanks for being there when it worked.
@JosephStangler
@JosephStangler 2 ай бұрын
The Final Countdown movie.
@tjminasi1442
@tjminasi1442 3 жыл бұрын
Ward, bold to tell these tales honestly no matter community opinion. Tons of respect to you.
@RockinRobbins13
@RockinRobbins13 3 жыл бұрын
I'll bet community opinion is fairly aligned with Ward's. But they're not like You Tube snipers and use the judgments as cautionary tales for themselves while maintaining respect for the fliers in the incident. The community is very aware that if they were in the same circumstance, unless they learn, they themselves may make the same decision for the same reasons.
@sixstringedthing
@sixstringedthing 3 жыл бұрын
I would hope that most people watching this channel understand that facts don't care about feelings, but I also have a lot of respect for Mooch being such a straight shooter.
@RockinRobbins13
@RockinRobbins13 3 жыл бұрын
@@sixstringedthing Just keep in mind that Mooch being an honest straight shooter, which he is, doesn't mean that he's right 100% of the time. He's honest in telling us what his opinion of events is, and he's uniquely positioned to be right more often than he is wrong.
@Zany4God
@Zany4God 3 жыл бұрын
I was in Turkey, AF chaplain when the 2nd excursion went into Libyan territory. I'm the guy who is not a military pilot who is sitting on the curb watching as much of the action as possible. I love it, and I want to say to you, "Thank You," for sharing these stories with all of us out here who only experience the rush of hormones, etc. vicariously.
@psychohist
@psychohist 3 жыл бұрын
The Gulf of Sidra was not Libyan territory, either time. Or did you mean the F111 strike?
@nickclark9240
@nickclark9240 3 жыл бұрын
Hi Ward. I love your channel, great information always. I have a question on the Libyan ops. In 1979, I was the enlisted sensor operator on the S-3A Viking. My squadron (VS-33, North Island) was deployed aboard the USS America. Many of our S-3 sorties in the Med were into the Gulf of Sidra to draw out the Libyan fighters. In subsequent engagements when the Libyans were shot down, were any S-3s used as decoys? I can't begin to tell you how exciting it was being a 20 year old kid and being involved with such historic events. I later went on to become a WSO in RF-4Cs and F-111Fs, with the Statue of Libya Raiders (48th TFW) at RAF Lakenheath. Thanks for all you do, and thank you for your service!!!
@redtailpilot
@redtailpilot 8 ай бұрын
Wow, the first time I heard the audio of this incident was when I got Falcon 3.0 (decades ago)! Was always curious about what was actually going on and it really set the mood for the startup screen of that game and getting my head in the mindset of being a fighter pilot. My free time these days (limited) is in DCS with VR (Varjo Aero) and 6DOF motion rig, living my dreams virtually. 😂 Private Pilot since 1998. Thanks for the detailed breakdown! Wow, that was an incredible debrief of the events 👍🏾
@jimvincenti2324
@jimvincenti2324 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the real time recollections of these combat missions and thank you for your service to this great country of ours!
@ruge48
@ruge48 2 жыл бұрын
At last I could engage “comments” . Have seen several epusodes and as an avid reader of naval air I do believe these episodes are very clear and fruitful for an amateur like me. Pls go on producing more of thrm
@firebythewater4477
@firebythewater4477 3 жыл бұрын
Shortly after this incident, a local radio station dj used real audio from the pilots of the F14's and Kenny Loggins Danger Zone song and compiled it beautifully. Wish I had a copy of it today!!!
@w7nw
@w7nw 3 жыл бұрын
I was a student at the Air Command and Staff College in the fall of 1981 and we had the crew come and give a classified briefing to our class.Really enjoying your channel
@ibbylancaster8981
@ibbylancaster8981 3 жыл бұрын
Very cool video. I remember both incidents. I’m sure many others would love to hear some good boat stories. Maybe a Tomcat incident that scared the snot out of you. Close calls. Funny things. What your deployments were like , things like that. I really do enjoy the Tomcat stories as well. Thank you for it all. 🇺🇸
@tomiossi8092
@tomiossi8092 2 жыл бұрын
Appreciate your insights. Veteran of FON 1981 Gulf of Sidra onboard USS Thorn DD-988 28:14 as EWOperator, attached to Forrestal 6th Fleet. You tell a story we’ll and really enjoyed to live action to go with hit. Not sure how you did that. Bravo
@bghammock
@bghammock 3 жыл бұрын
Oooo! I've always wondered about the details of this incident but never got motivated enough to look into it. '86 incident that is. Thanks Ward! This is becoming one of my favorite channels.
@WardCarroll
@WardCarroll 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching, Barry! Lots of episodes in the hopper, so stay tuned! And tell your friends!
@CHECK6-963
@CHECK6-963 3 жыл бұрын
We lost Paul Lorence and Fernando Ribas Dominicci in the Libya raid in 86. The raid itself was Operation El Dorado Canyon.
@WardCarroll
@WardCarroll 3 жыл бұрын
@@CHECK6-963 RIP, mates.
@bghammock
@bghammock 3 жыл бұрын
@@CHECK6-963 Thanks. Reading about that on airforcemag.com. The only thing I knew about it before was that was the first time I really heard about the F-111 and remember thinking it was a MEAN looking aircraft.
@shaunmcdaniels2460
@shaunmcdaniels2460 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for the video!!!! I like how you break it down step by step!!! It makes it easy to follow and understand what is happening…. Thanks again!!
@conatives2
@conatives2 3 жыл бұрын
Great stuff! As a Naval Aircrewman (S3 Viking) on cruise in VS-37 (1989), I heard this play out on cruise... I never heard this breakdown until today! I always wondered about the “weapons yellow” call from AB, and subsequent launch. Super informative, super interesting!
@WardCarroll
@WardCarroll 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Stephen.
@geoffreytudor5674
@geoffreytudor5674 2 жыл бұрын
Great analysis of a (remembered) historical incident. I liked the stop-go vocal record and analysis; you can really feel Leo ramping up the tension (hey, I'd have been hyperventilating). Always good to have a better grasp of the details, and you do a fine job.
@1truemoose
@1truemoose 3 жыл бұрын
"Hank" Kleemann was my cousin. From what I was told about the accident that killed him, he was serving as a test pilot for something new on the F-18 - maybe an antilock braking system. It malfunctioned and locked up, causing the accident. Anything you could add would be appreciated. Earlier in his career he had flown F4's in the Vietnam war and served as a test pilot for the Navy's acceptance program for the F14. He graduated from the Naval Academy in 1968 or so.
@jackcook6644
@jackcook6644 3 жыл бұрын
He was the CO of VX-4 at NAS Pt Mugu. Capt Kleeman's landing may not have been sufficiently firm enough to actuate the squat switches to the FBW system. In the F-18 the flight control surfaces move at a certain "inflight" rate of movement, giving it the excellent maneuverability it has. On landing, squat switches on the main drag links engage, and any movement of the stick moves the control surfaces in the "ground" mode, or about 3/4 less than the flight mode. If one makes a soft touchdown in the jet to where the squats don't engage, and then deflects a control surface (countering a crosswind for example), the resultant control surface movement is enough to roll the jet over at touchdown speeds, that's what happened in Kleeman's case. One of his mistakes was that by "habit" he utilized rudder for runway alignment corrections. In the F18 this is a Grave mistake to make, even conducting an aerobrake procedure to bleed airspeed before putting the nose down. Floating the runway surface and the High Lift of the Flaps and wing configuration will keep the FLCS in the Hi YAW,PITCH/Roll Config. But the aircraft is not flying it is Creating drag in the Air Compression between the Wings and the Runway surface. on crosswinds this is deadly. this is why in the F18 Aerobraking is a Mistake in Cross wind or direct into the win component landings. It should only be used in the event of a Brake Failure. In a non cable equipped airfield. Miramar is not far from the San Diego Coast and the airfield always has a 10-30 knot wind coming across the west runway. The landing was normal until about three thousand feet feet down the runway when braking was apparently initiated and hydroplaning ensues immediately. The airplane began to drift right, departed the runway at a speed of about 72 knots whereupon the right main mount settled into the soft, wet earth. The airplane began to swerve farther to the right as the left main mount entered the earth and the right wingtip dug into the ground. The airplane flipped inverted and came to a halt upside down and heading in a direction roughly 320 degrees with the engines running and the canopy separated from the fuselage. All of this occured very rapidly, and the tower operator immediately went into action issuing the warnings over the radio and telephone and rolling the crash trucks. The first crash truck arrived at the airplane at 9:11. They found the pilots helmeted head jammed into the soft earth with a mixture of rainwater and jet fuel filling up the depression it had made. There were several serious concerns which the crash crews needed to consider. There was the presence of leaking jet fuel and two engines still running, an ejection seat which had been arrested in mid ejection sequence and still ready to explode as well as an injured pilot whom they had to extricate from an airplane which was crushing him into the earth. But, they determined that the pilot was alive after the ambulance reached the scene at 09:22. The crane arrived at 09:30 to lift the airplane and extricate the pilot. Meanwhile, being unable to reach the engine throttles, the crash crew extinguished the engines with water. By 10:00 the seat was made safe by an escape systems technician. Six minutes later the airplane was lifted clear of the ground and the pilot removed. At 10:31 the pilot was pronounced dead. Cause of death was determined to be a transected spinal chord which occurred at impact with the ground. Natops warns against using aerodynamic braking in a high cross wind situation and Capt Kleeman had a habit of doing this. I believe he was fairly new to the F-18 (checking out when he assumed command of VX-4) having flown F-4s & F-14s during his career. A very sad day in Naval Aviation.
@1truemoose
@1truemoose 3 жыл бұрын
@@jackcook6644 Thanks for the information.
@Andrew-13579
@Andrew-13579 3 жыл бұрын
Well, he definitely wasn’t taxiing, it was a landing accident...or mishap. From what I’ve learned, including from this channel, use of rudder was important in the F-4 and F-14. The F/A-18 was just an all different kind of animal, I guess.
@wrmyers
@wrmyers 3 жыл бұрын
Then LCDR Kleeman was my Maintenance Officer, MO, in VF-32 in the late 70s.
@1truemoose
@1truemoose 3 жыл бұрын
@@wrmyers Thanks for responding.
@andynewcombe9944
@andynewcombe9944 3 жыл бұрын
Former UK military, and i absolutely love listening to you, and your stories.
@CMIKAEL1172
@CMIKAEL1172 3 жыл бұрын
Awesome video - learned a lot. I like to study MiG-killers. The F-4 and F-14 are my two favorite fighters in history. Look forward to more videos.
@gibsonw1
@gibsonw1 3 жыл бұрын
Great video!! I was an OS in the Gulf during the Aug. 1981 incident in CIC, onboard USS Caron. I was on watch at the time and we went to GQ immediately, not knowing what was going to happen next. There was also a DDG with us, south of the LOD. We had CAP aircraft patrolling our operating area (I think there were 2 of them from the Nimitz). I was very thankful we had CAP with us!!
@JosephStangler
@JosephStangler 2 ай бұрын
I was an OS on Semmes we were on the way there with Pharris.
@swspph
@swspph 3 жыл бұрын
Just found you and I love It. Been a Tomcat fan for over twenty years.
@Hawkerdude67
@Hawkerdude67 3 жыл бұрын
I have to say..to a man...Navy guys are just great to fly with. I'm sure I've flown with many of your buds out of my BWI base. Pilots just love talking about flying and it really helps pass the time. LUV your stuff! Keep it up!!
@Bushy_P
@Bushy_P 3 жыл бұрын
Love the Synopsis of the incidents from a RIO of that time. Always nice to hear what the community thought.
@brolinofvandar
@brolinofvandar 3 жыл бұрын
I was there for the Gulf of Sidra action in 86, and kind of have a connection to the 81 incident. I was an ET in the Navy, aboard the USS Forrestal in late 81-early 84 and the USS Vreeland 84-86. When I reported to the Forrestal, one of the first things I learned was that the radar I'd be working on was currently down. As I understand, the tech I was relieving was in the process of swapping out a tube socket (it was a very old radar) when the ship went to GQ. I believe that GQ was the incident you've described in 81. Afterwards, when they completed the job, the radar didn't come back up. And stayed down until after I was there, which is an altogether different story. In 86, aboard the Vreeland, we were part of the escort for the USS Saratoga. In fact, our ship itself actually crossed the "Line of Death". I used to have a T-shirt that said so. :-) In the beginning of those ops, we actually started a score board in our shop, starting off with US 2 Libya 0, cause we counted 81. I remember our score going to 4-0, but you said we lost one on that op, which I don't remember. However, I was an ET on a frigate, so... I do recall during that op was the one time in my ten years in that I experienced an actual GQ, not a drill. I can still picture it, standing in a hatchway saying goodnight to a friend. The GQ announcement comes over, we've drilled so much we just carry on talking. Until its over, we both look at each other, "He didn't say drill!" Record time locking the ship down that day.
@hogie9
@hogie9 3 жыл бұрын
I loved this one Ward! Super interesting accounts of both incidents
@palm7films158
@palm7films158 3 жыл бұрын
Lots of important context on this famous incident. Neutral, factual and analytical - much needed. Thanks
@lancet.346
@lancet.346 3 жыл бұрын
I can tell I will be watching this video several times-fascinating stuff.
@WardCarroll
@WardCarroll 3 жыл бұрын
Appreciate it, Lance.
@bcask61
@bcask61 Жыл бұрын
Wow. So much new information for those of us who just read the newspaper accounts and watched CNN. As usual there is way more to the story. This channel is must-see TV for this kind of stuff.
@mxcollin95
@mxcollin95 3 жыл бұрын
I love this channel! Keep up the great work Ward! I’ve watched this engagement several times and after you explained it I never would’ve guessed all that was going on...super interesting. 👍
@terrythornock6468
@terrythornock6468 3 жыл бұрын
WOWSA KAPOWSA!!!!! What an awesome briefing!!!! Thank you so much for the wonderful presentation yet again!!!!
@thebronzetoo
@thebronzetoo 3 жыл бұрын
Great info, Ward! In 1984-86, I was a Marine stationed at Marine Barracks North Island. In Dec of 85, Hank Kleeman was piloting a Hornet that landed at Miramar on a wet runway and ended up perishing when the plane flipped over. The Hornet wound up on a flatbed at NASNI near one of the NARF maintenance hangars. I actually poked around that Hornet (the cockpit had a blue tarp over it) and saw that the tail tips were chewed up and had dirt and debris on them, as well as dirt around the cockpit area. I didn't know it was CAPT Kleeman's Hornet and what had happened to it, until a short-while after. Small world. RIP Hank...
@hoggrken
@hoggrken 3 жыл бұрын
Fascinating videos, Ward! I would have liked to have trained for Canadian CF-104 Starfighters .. Yes, I'm giving my age, away! The lieutenant in the CF Recruiting Center (Calgary AB) 'washed me out', when I told him that I had asthma. I settled into a 37 plus career on the railroad, and retired two years ago as a lovomotive engineer. Neat to have both Gulf of Sidra engagements explained, in such detail. Thank you!
@johnemmert9012
@johnemmert9012 3 жыл бұрын
Interested to see that the fighter community is way more self critical than Top Gun would have you believe.
@Mugdorna
@Mugdorna 3 жыл бұрын
Having read a few books on the program. Criticism and analysis of aerial actions certainly appears to be 2nd nature to those guys
@thethirdman225
@thethirdman225 3 жыл бұрын
No, I think it's more than what the public - particularly the anoraks - would have you believe. Yes: fighter pilots are an aggressive lot but they're not just idiots, whanging around the sky shooting things down at random. I'll always remember Pierre Clostermann's criteria for judging the German _Experten_ he came up against: _"Both prudent and sure of themselves..."_
@rockriver2652
@rockriver2652 3 жыл бұрын
Top Gun and The Right Stuff are caricatures of the real thing. (But I still enjoy the movies immensely!)
@sixstringedthing
@sixstringedthing 3 жыл бұрын
I guess the high-fives and back slaps are to be expected in what was basically a recruitment/PR tool. Good to know that things aren't quite so gung-ho in real life.
@OpenCarryUSMC
@OpenCarryUSMC 3 жыл бұрын
There are Top Gun the movie times as well. Can't remember how many times we helped the pilots up the Hornet ladder and the first thing they did was gang load the O2 to clear their hang overs. Or the time the skipper was drunk as a skunk on a street in Olongapo while half the pilots and RIO's (equally as inebriated) surround him less than 8 hours before the flight schedule began. Yeah, they'll analyze the hell out of an incident but they still pull stupid shit.
@PacificAirPhoto1
@PacificAirPhoto1 3 жыл бұрын
This is an entirely different perspective on the 2nd GoS incident, one I’d never heard. Thank you so much for providing such expert analysis and clarity!
@DesertPunks
@DesertPunks 3 жыл бұрын
Always appreciative of the content you give us, I never knew there was a first incident involving VF-41 and SU-22s.
@juancho420
@juancho420 3 жыл бұрын
Yup the previous day they were going up against MiG-25s.
@TheRandseed
@TheRandseed 3 жыл бұрын
Ward, I've watched this for literally 25 or 30 years. You just explained a lot of stuff that I either didn't know or that I completely messed up. Keep flyin', man.
@cmphighpower
@cmphighpower 3 жыл бұрын
I got to sit in the admirals chair aboard the Saratoga in December 89. I was stationed on a MSO and an OS1 gave me a tour of the ship. Cool as hell
@harrybussey2127
@harrybussey2127 3 жыл бұрын
Glad I found your channel, Shipmate! Enjoyed our time in VF-102 together, and I look forward to watching many more of your videos. Best regards, Harry Bussey, ISC(AW) (ret.)
@unclerojelio6320
@unclerojelio6320 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the blow-by-blow. The one thing that strikes me is just how much "in command" the RIO appears to be in this action. Here I was thinking the pilot was always the one in command.
@chucksevola2424
@chucksevola2424 3 жыл бұрын
Yes, me too. I was shocked. It seemed like the pilot was along for the ride. I didn’t know an NFO could just decide to launch on his own initiative.
@taylorc2542
@taylorc2542 3 жыл бұрын
He wasn't "in command"; his lack of composure escalated the situation far beyond what it should have been. It shows how being wound too tight can make everyone stupid.
@Stubbies2003
@Stubbies2003 3 жыл бұрын
@@chucksevola2424 OK I'm just going to assume that you don't know much about flight safety for the services. Ward did cover this in the story. There is a Master Arm/Safe switch in the F-14 like all other fighters and with it in the safe position the RIO cannot shoot anything at all. The RIO doesn't have the MA switch only the pilot does.
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