Warframe | Rhino Roar Is Special | BUT WHY ?

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#Warframe #Rhino #Roar

[@lilypaddington1797]

This "but why?" series is amazing! I'm a veteran player that's recently introduced multiple people to the game, and having these videos makes explaining the nitty-gritty details way easier and less overwhelming. Seriously, thank you so much for making these ♥

[@melromarcdubois3448]

Gosh, I wish I could like more than once. Your content is always super informative, and whenever I'm awake for release I always watch it immediately. Keep it up, MC! You're amazing!

[@DragonaxFilms]

I never thought I'd have any use for algebra after highschool, but then I started looking into Warframe damage calculations and finally understood the importance of Order of Operations.

[@SamC77]

short, packed and sweet info. dude is proving again why this is my favorite warframe channel and gamer channel.

[@garyblumenthal654]

I just returned to Warframe after a long break (pre primary/secondary arcanes) and didn't understand why nobody was running Serration anymore. Thank you!

[@unlucky1307]

I love that you seem to be having more fun with the videos lately, keep enjoying yourself and providing good info ❤️

[@ThePopeOfAwesomeness]

Because it's got a special synergy with the MIGHTY SEER

[@akilh340]

Full respect to sticking to a meme

[@ThePopeOfAwesomeness]

@@akilh340 thanks mate

[@vrfitnessandgaming3234]

Gross 😝

[@harukun3651]

STOP!!! WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO MIN MAX THE ONLY WEAPON IN THE GAME THAT CAN ONE SHOT LVL CAP WITH IT'S BASE DMG?!

[@ThePopeOfAwesomeness]

@@harukun3651 because if I keep going I can one shot the universe

[@BamaMophi]

Great informative video as usual. I’d like to ask for videos on other buffer frames that aren’t super obvious how good of a buff you’re getting such as Xaku’s Xata Whisper and Mirage’s Eclipse.

[@raycranker848]

I really like these "But Why" videos. Its like a "Cliff Notes", or an "Idiot's guide to". They are simple, easy to understand videos to moderately complicated topics. Best of luck with this new type of video. I hope your viewership grows back to what it once was, or even bigger.

[@Journey22405]

ive always said "eclipse over Roar" but i never knew roar worked like this, i knew it was good and use it on some builds but it might be better in most senarios than eclipse now i know how it properly works.

[@TurtleBleach689]

eclipse is still better than roar in most circumstances when you actually have the damage bonus, you only ever take roar for consistency or too buff warframe abilities

[@noahedenborg4221]

​@@TurtleBleach689or dot builds

[@InnocentiusLacrimosa]

​@@noahedenborg4221yeah, dot builds and teammate buffs (without augment) can be important.

[@lookalike4805]

Neither one is better or Worse... If you can Have Both then Go For Both. That Being Said... Eclipse might not Double Dip but it's usually also Double The Value That Roar Is... So ultimately your Status Effect Damage ends up being The Same Regardless. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@torunsmok5890]

​@@lookalike4805that's not how it works. Faction double dipping on dots is more like squaring that doubling, therefore a double value non faction buff isn't nearly as strong for dots

[@joemartin7451]

man. warframe sounds like a homework that never ends. i remember 2 years ago i would read wiki articles and calculate dmg by hand to theory craft. it was exausting. and when i thought to myself that i got everything figured out, the game changes buff mechanics and formulas. all i know now is that instead of slapping 3 different mods that give %damage or %multishot i would instead stack different multipliers. to maximise my dps. thank you very much for these lessons.

[@TECHN01200]

I love the emphasis on understanding. I will never say no to anything focused on telling you WHY instead of just WHAT or HOW.

[@ZebNiko]

I have been playing warframe a long time and Rhino was my main for a lot of that time, and I learned something new, his roar is considered faction damage, which made me immediately put it on Saryn for that nice extra dip of damage. Thanks for the vid! Side note, I have been actively searching and watching warframe videos on youtube lately and your videos are never recommended or in youtube search index. I don't know why. I found your vid through a duckduckgo search. I thought you should know because of the viewership numbers and how youtube might be screwing you over.

[@adrianrandom3448]

Been playing for like, 6-7 years at this point, love learning new stuff 😊

[@GrimmWF]

0:07 because its faction damage, like bane/smite mods. you attack an enemy with any damage sources that damage gains faction damage bonus increasing damage, if said damage deals a status proc that applies ticking damage that status procs trick damage is based on your buffed damage value that applied the proc, then your status proc ticks and that tick damage is buffed by faction damage again. aka it double dips. there are more interactions as well to do with stacking different sources of faction damage, and specific status types but im not writing a book here.

[@ArtemSayapov]

I mean, I think you should still use faction mods with roar because the diminishing returns aspect is lessened due to double dipping. (at least for status dmg builds)

[@felix_patriot]

Depends on exactly the size of your roar. If your roar is already at +300% damage (for a total of 4x damage, double dipping on DoTs for 16x damage), then adding an additional +55% (for a total of 4.55x damage, double dipping on DoTs for 20.7x damage), that could be less of a damage increase than affecting a different multiplier like elemental or crit could provide.

[@ArtemSayapov]

@@felix_patriot that example is very extreme, you'd need 600% ability strength on Rhino, or 1000% on any other frame. With a reasonably high 100% dmg boost on roar, you get 4x dmg on dots without faction mods, or 6.5x dmg on dots with faction mods. Yes, prioritise crits first, and elemental mods if the dot damage you're doing isn't slash, but I think for weapons like the phantasma, they don't have the crit stats to justify adding crit over faction damage, even with roar.

[@SOULxxdragon]

Huh, never knew how roar worked, that's super interesting! Thanks for the helpful video MC!

[@techothunder4166]

As a rhino main this actually is more useful because I never understood Roar until 4 months ago

[@SamanthaLaurier]

I didn't know about Piercing Roar, if I ever get back into playing Rhino I'll have to try it

[@cantoastro]

3:33 Man, it'd be so fucking busted if you could stack the faction damage multiplier from Roar with the extra hit from Xata's Whisper. And imagine if the Void status had a damage-over-time effect on top of the that, so you could dip Roar again. That would be craaaaazy... *slowly sweeping Saryn under a rug so DE don't see her*

[@1110jesse]

It is also funny how chromas weapon damage buff is additive with serration and other damage buffs, while mirages eclipse is multiplicative. And eclipse is helminth ability as well, so most of the time it's more useful than roar on other frames that rely on weapons to do their damage. On the other hand, nowadays it's usually more useful to run defense strip mod instead of roar on many frames that deal damage with abilities, like gyre, or sometimes you might want to run nourish from grendel on some frames that need the extra energy to keep going with more minmaxed power strength build, like titania. Tho dex pixia can still slot the faction damage mod in this case... Somehow, despite how great buff roar is I never use it on any frames. I always find something else more specialized to fit into my builds, 80% of the time it tends to be nourish, pillage or tharros strike.. if not any of those then it's garas mirror merry-go-round, gauss's ability for cold procs or something else that's gonna raise a lot of evebrows.

[@noahedenborg4221]

Well vex armor WAS like eclipse and actually double dipped on elemental combo and tripled dipped on inate combos Plus u also have lighting issues with eclipse and needing to take dmg for vex armor to stack up

[@1110jesse]

@@noahedenborg4221 Yeah, vex armor got nerfed back in the day when everybody was using chroma for eidolons. Mirages eclipse has the lighting condition but the damage value is so much stronger if you have a frame that relies on weapons, and in my personal opinion it's also far more fun to play because of that condition. As for vex armor, it's still only chroma-exclusive ability and I never play with chroma anymore. He used to be one of my favorites because he had good damage buff and good survivability. Nowadays every time I want something like that I just pick baruuk. DR from abilities war outweighs any armor chroma could have, and as for damage, pillage's defense strip is pretty good, but I can always just press 4 to win as well.

[@axelaguilar7896]

I've been playing this game since hydriod first dropped and this has been actually informative

[@patrickbridges6476]

Interesting! I've never thought to build like this!

[@MCGamerCZ]

First !

[@zenraloc]

Your mom came first part🎉

[@InnocentiusLacrimosa]

Adding two sources of faction damage is great, because of double dipping. 1(damage) *(1+0,6 (bane)+ 0,7 (roar))= 2,3. But with dots double dipping it is 1 (damage) * 2,3 (bane + roar from previous equation) * 2,3 = 5,3 when without the bane it would be 1*1,7*1,7=2,9 Actually even adding a riven with bane to it for triple faction mod AND doing heat inherit for even more multipliers sounds great as all of those would slot into exponential function.

[@lookalike4805]

It's still worse than Adding a Multiplier of a Different Type. Combine that with all QOL Issues Faction Mods have and it's no Wonder why people don't Stack Them.

[@InnocentiusLacrimosa]

@@lookalike4805 You need around 260 power strength Rhino Roar before Primed bane starts adding less than 60% total damage when double dipping. On helminthed version you need over 400% power strength before that happens.

[@lookalike4805]

@InnocentiusLacrimosa Okay... Cool... But... What does that have to do with what I said ? 🤔

[@InnocentiusLacrimosa]

@@lookalike4805 That it is not worse. In good builds there are no unused multipllier that would add more. Or do you generally have some multiplier that you do not apply? Base, elemental, multishot, fire rate, faction, critical, crit damage. Out of these the crit multiplliers I am sometimes missing if the weapon has poor crit stats (or using devouring attrition weapons). Otherwise the others are there almost always.

[@lookalike4805]

Sounds like you've gone completely Off Topic. 😐

[@Atzuma99]

This is part of the reason why Rhino is my main frame. He's simple to play but that's what makes him shine. It's also nice knowing how his roar works since I often forget to swap out my faction mods haha.

[@MrFirsito]

same here, i main Nezha which is like a mobile tank... but Rhino is my most played frame, its just useful on endgame

[@saimyintmyat9373]

You don't build 2 configs for mods on everything ? What ?

[@saimyintmyat9373]

​@@MrFirsitomy revenant prime with roar = impossible to dies.

[@_sonic_exe]

@@saimyintmyat9373 this guy gets it

[@riddarhyttan]

When the roaring, stomping tank has better elemental damage synergies than several caster frames meant to have that as an integral part of their kit...DE shaking up the MMO stereotypes again, whether by chance or design is probably best left unspoken.

[@UNGGodYT]

it also increase any ability damage, something you cant normally get anywhere else.

[@Akario3]

i can't check the membership stuff, because poor, but I will leave a comment and a like, so thank you very much for that blooper at the end XD

[@UltraHydrationSupreme]

Important to keep in mind, that even with roar, due to double dipping, you'll still want the primed faction damage mod, as it still gives you over an effective +55% damage to status effects until you get 248% strength on roar (on rhino, not even subsumed). The non primed mods are still over an effective 30% increase to damage until 228 strength, so you can phase it out sooner.

[@EasilyIrritatedimp]

Yet again the best warframe info content channel by leagues and miles. No baises directing the flow, just facts. Short and sweet videos make the info easy to digest too! Also, this explains why his subsumable ability is good but why is Rhino rated so well? Ive found many frames do his job better period.

[@noahedenborg4221]

Well he's gotten really early

[@NovaUmbral]

Surprised you didn't mention that Roar can be combined with Nourish for making a very powerful damage boost combo (which is exclusive to Rhino & Grendel)

[@lookalike4805]

I mean... We can easily Mod For Viral... 👀

[@Fancy_Raptor]

Once again, a video just as long as it needs to be with great information. Always killin it dude!

[@lightningpo26]

Love the video MC. Awesome stuff.

[@sicklyorphan5984]

I feel vindicated from the shade my friend throws at me for putting roar on so many frames now.

[@InsomniacDoggo]

oh my Rhino main buddy is gunna love this 💜💜

[@maskettaman1488]

Love these knowledge bomb videos

[@glycerosfournaris2512]

300% Strength Rhino could make stug an actual weapon. I may have to rebuild it.

[@saimyintmyat9373]

My revenant prime have 387% str with subsumed roar on him but roar's strength is only at 113% at base lol. Molt augmented helps reach for 132%.

[@YouLackSelfAwareness]

Imagine the roar boost on a Juggernaut pet

[@EntropyEngine]

Wait, wait wait.... So should I remove all damage mods (serration, hornet strike etc.) from all my weapons? Since I run primary merciless, secondary merciless or deadhead on everything? What about when Roar is not active? Will I still get proper damage on my weapons?

[@noahedenborg4221]

If ur doing quick missions or none dmg over time builds then u won't need faction mods

[@InnocentiusLacrimosa]

Roar is not base damage mod.

[@AGENTX506]

If you're running a +damage arcane then yes, generally speaking you can get more out of an additional elemental mod, crit mod, etc. than you would with a damage mod like serration. For instance if you use primary merciless you'll have a +360% damage effect active most of the time, so you will deal 100% base + 360% extra = 460% base damage. With serration that increases to 100%+360%+165% = 625%. Dividing one by the other shows us that serration increases our total damage by... 625/460 = 1.35 = 35%, which is kinda underwhelming when you consider the +165% number on the mod. If you can do better than 35% with a different mod then you're better off. For example if you're running two 60% elemental mods* then adding a 90% elemental mod will net you (100%+2*60%)/(100%+2*60%+90%) = 1.4 = 40% more overall damage, which is better than serration's 35%. This is also why faction mods end up looking quite nice, as a 1.55x = 55% increase is quite hard to beat (by the time you have all the mandatory mods on your weapon, anyhow). *Remember the (simplified) damage equation in warframe is (base damage * elemental damage multiplier * damage multiplier * faction multiplier * multishot * crit), so increasing your elemental damage multiplier by 40% has the same overall effect as increasing your damage multiplier by 40%.

[@EntropyEngine]

@@AGENTX506 Thanks for the reply I'll give it a go. I thought I'd need something like condition overload to replace the damage mods like on melee. But your argument is pursuasive. I'll see how it works. This isn't just for rhino but generally? Correct? If I run those arcanes I can remove damage mods. Even the primed equivalents?

[@felix_patriot]

@@EntropyEngine Yes, if you run those arcanes you should remove base damage mods, because they are additive so the return you get by slotting serration is greatly diminished. Specifically for Rhino, his Roar means you should remove faction damage mods too, since Roar is coded as faction damage, so it greatly diminishes the returns you get from your faction mods.

[@pedroandrade1420]

Not sure if I'm mistaken, but I saw somewhere that since roar is a universal faction mod and not a especific one, the damage calculates as a new instance, basically triple dipping in damage But, I'm really not 100% confidente about this, just wanted to show it here

[@lookalike4805]

Where ever you saw that is Incorrect.

[@andrewgrow5711]

great video as usual but "buffs ability damage" is imho the #1 reason it's special no other ability buffs ability damage like that (aside from increasing ability strength) it's the only one

[@Umbral_25]

It's so painful for me (as 2 tauforged yellow shards for casting Speed rhino main) to see unmodded roar animation speed Thank you for not using stomp in this vid :D Just Kidding, liked

[@JohnWhitneyTheFourth]

is the gun chaining and if so what gun is it? Great video btw this series is teaching me a lot about the game

[@TheRagnus]

Yes, and the weapon he is using is the Amprex which you can get from the corpus lab in the dojo.

[@whitenarcissu5082]

Just wondering Is that a Harvest Moon font you're using? Lol

[@Spritus3241]

could i ask for a "but why"? on thermal sunder? apparently it's actually good but i've always overwrit it when i build my infused Gauss for my invuln speed beserker setups. it just seems kinda inert when mach rush does the job of battery bumping just fine.

[@noahedenborg4221]

Well that is only 1 use for sunder U have aoe nuking in both low and high lvls U also have cc from the status effects it causes U also have push or pull with it

[@procrastinathor4594]

Just leaving a comment because I wanna be a channel member

[@bowenogrady7932]

Will you be making more Path of exile content

[@noahedenborg4221]

Well roar and faction dont give asmuch diminished returns as heavy cal serration and acolyte arcane using 2 same multipler is okay but not when u have 3 sources Also wouldnt psuedo exalted dot builds triple dip like first boost melee weapon then the ability then the dot

[@lookalike4805]

To Be Fair... Neither Give Diminished Returns.

[@wolfgang6442]

Hmm im lowkey thinking of keeping of rhino prime for if hes reall6 that good ima try and mod him well for myself if do him correctly

[@EA-05]

I thought roar's damage was calculated differently from banes, I did some testing a while back and it seems that stacking roar with bane mods do more damage compared to roar + damage mods. Not sure if this was changed with recent updates.

[@lookalike4805]

Was never Changed as far as I know... They've been the same for as long as both Existed. 🤔

[@Kaikick18]

Eclipse is a final damage multiplier, not a base damage multiplier

[@MCGamerCZ]

This is correct !

[@lookalike4805]

INB4 Someone asks "What's The Best Multiplier" 🙃

[@noahedenborg4221]

Yes

[@novAviator01]

Thank you for the video

[@dinglingwang]

So does bane mods stack on roar or no?

[@rudycastillo4150]

Do you think you can replace faction mod for serrations when you dont have any base damage. Or is serrations better than faction mod in that case?

[@TheRagnus]

Replace Serration with a faction mod because you're already receiving base damage boosts from your weapon arcane and/or Galvanized Aptitude.

[@noahedenborg4221]

Yes but if the build uses dots then faction is always recommended

[@rudycastillo4150]

@@TheRagnus I'm saying without base damage like serrations and arcanes, Is faction mod still better than base damage mode. 🤔

[@InnocentiusLacrimosa]

​@@rudycastillo4150you need at least ONE good source of base damage (of course).

[@felix_patriot]

@@rudycastillo4150 if you have no sources of either base or faction damage, you can just compare the mod cards 1:1. A primed faction mod provides +55% damage while serration would add +165% damage, so serration is better. Faction mods only start becoming better than base damage mods when your return on your base damage multiplier diminishes e.g. due to having primary merciless equipped and faction mods being multiplicative to that while serration would only be additive.

[@wither4851]

Great vid math go brr

[@zenraloc]

Im surprised you didnt mention piercing roar procs 10 stacks of pierce, which now (as of recent update) means that all enemies now have overall 25% more added crit chance. I mean its not a whole lot of dmg, unless youre the nukor. But hey, dmg is dmg

[@MCGamerCZ]

uhm I did

[@RossKyle95]

90% dmg less dealt too which is handy on some defense game modes , also it’s a knockdown guaranteed with aug so if you cast roar then stomp it keeps them in a perpetual knockdown due to it ignoring stomp portion and just getting hit straight with the 97.5% slow

[@taylorgarrett793]

yea he did mention it although he said it adds 5 stacks yet the mod says ten stacks

[@MCGamerCZ]

@@taylorgarrett793 The wiki uses the old mod card

[@zenraloc]

​@MCGamerCZ You mentioned it adds procs of puncture but not and that they buffed puncture procs but not in what way. Before it didn't add Critical chance and now it does. The critical chance factor was the only thing I meant you missed. I rewatched just to be sure. But that's not important. What important is that anyone may find this information here. At any rate, they will be able to now

[@MaraW1832]

I got downvoted once for pointing out Roar was one of the better Helminth choices for Voruna because of status double-dipping. Y'know, the frame that revolves around status effects (:

[@ano1960]

Went 10 rounds on index with my friend he had a rhino and boar ans outdamaged me and i havent been outdamaged in like a year at index (i use tonkor and cerata)

[@riyandoad]

So if I'm running roar I shouldn't run a faction mod on my weapons?

[@RossKyle95]

Given the choice no but if you have a spare slot then it’s still fine to add it

[@noahedenborg4221]

For quick missions u won't need faction mods

[@InnocentiusLacrimosa]

Depends on builds. If building for dots, then two sources of faction damage still act as an multiplier due to double dipping.

[@RossKyle95]

@@InnocentiusLacrimosa they still add to each other in the double dipping portion , since they both do same thing but stronger multipler overall so yeah I guess

[@InnocentiusLacrimosa]

@@RossKyle95 if you add them in function it is obvious it is multiplicative damage source as the additions happen inside the exponential part.

[@BokRadio-wy4ln]

Now that I've seen this video, does someone have a build for rhino😂

[@taycid1470]

So wait if you’re running primary merciless you technically shouldn’t run serration?

[@taycid1470]

And if that’s so then what do you run instead of serration

[@felix_patriot]

@@taycid1470 run a mod that is multiplicative to serration, for example a crit mod, elemental mod, faction mod etc. Remember, the (simplified) damage equation in warframe is (base damage * elemental damage multiplier * damage multiplier * faction multiplier * multishot * crit). We want to maximise as many different multipliers as we can, instead of adding to the same multiplier, because 2x2 is bigger than 3x1.

[@lookalike4805]

Keep in Mind some weapon Struggle to Get Arcane Merciless going by themselves so I usually have *Vigorous Swap & Arcane Arachne* on my Warframe as a Fail Safe in those Situations.

[@noahedenborg4221]

Well its not shouldn't but u won't always need to run it

[@BebRav3InGam3]

You should answer why heat dot is more meta than elec dot.

[@lookalike4805]

Technically they are Equally Effective in Isolation... However... Heat has a Secondary Effect of Lowering Enemy Armor by 50% so Generally it comes out ahead versus Single Targets. But if we're just talking Shields or Health then Both are Equally Effective.

[@GEVLION]

ouch my brain

[@yoshz5389]

So to piss off a bane sweat is to use roar.

[@kamikami334]

how did you make your roar dmg to 141% I'm stuck at 93%

[@noahedenborg4221]

Well strength and roar subsume on other frames has less %

[@kamikami334]

@@noahedenborg4221 ohhhhhh ok now i get it xD

[@saimyintmyat9373]

​​@@kamikami334113% at base on my 387% str revenant prime. Molt augmented helps it reach 132% at maximum for me. 200% above is from Full void reactants buff which I had gotten so far.

[@richardzoerner8275]

awesome

[@coffeeonmyfoot86]

Ugh!..."because mods that give faction damage are very good" Me who sold a riven coz I thought it was trash... The almight racist infested riven roll~ +dmg to grineer +dmg to corpus +dmg to corrupted -dmg to infested And the values 1ere pretty good too, above the normal mods but not above the primed ones. I forgot the weapon tho👁👄👁...rhino roar, the mod

[@omarxnew1913]

But Why?

[@HelloFellowMellowMarshmallow]

counter: 3

[@the-nm3xn]

I didn't this

[@gounnick]

deepwoken

[@tuii9446]

rhino is so good that even out of every single prime i own except grendel prime, i still never use him and pick volt

[@saimyintmyat9373]

My volt even have Roar too.

[@Joe_mama...]

Faction mods are just weapon racism, so rhino is racist against literally everything. Good