Warhammer Old World Update: SHOOTING. IN DEPTH ANALYSIS

In depth discussion on the latest announcement from Warhammer: the Old World, which is all about SHOOTING. Guest appearance from Gorthor.
Announcement: www.warhammer-community.com/2...
#WarhammerTOW
#Warhammer
#GamesWorkshop
#theoldworld
#oldhammer

[@BardicBroadcasts]

That illustration beneath the wound table is really gorgeous. It's well placed, too! Look at it there, working in tandem with the chart to remind you always that the plain numbers are in the service of something fantastic. You can't see the chart without seeing the art. That, as much as the rules, really makes this look like an actual game of Warhammer.

[@DrBlaxill]

Yes! The line illustrations in margins and separating texts and table are unsung things, but do help to immerse- especially because they appear in a place the gamer has to often look, like a table, and enter the mind unconsciously.

[@Ethnarches]

You've become my favourite and most trusted commentator on these matters, thank you doctor!

[@thelastredcoat1662]

I greatly appreciate both the intelligent, in-depth analysis, and the humor.

[@unclemontypython]

As soon as the video began to play I braced myself for the timebomb to detonate.

[@jeckles]

I can tell you're a true, certified, actual Old World fan by how much you hate Age of Sigmar without being asked.

[@DrBlaxill]

Oh yes- RAGE OF SIGMAR

[@johnalevetsovitis1775]

​@@DrBlaxillI subscribed right after hearing your detest for AoS😂.

[@spiritofgroot1999]

Yea, heaven forbid someone can be a true old world fan and like a different game. I like the good doctors takes and his opinion Warhammer but this comment is just daft

[@jeckles]

@@spiritofgroot1999 Relax sir, we're all being sardonic lmao

[@jonnycanning4516]

I haven't played since 4th edition but just the way you talk about Warhammer has single-handedly restored my interest in the game and the world Dr. Blaxill. Love the channel, your style and your whole approach.

[@DrBlaxill]

Many thanks. I think, like all things, the way back into something can often through those who were of that time. I remember the zeitgeist of the game, and the hobby, from 4th ed only too clearly. Good times indeed- and not forgotten.

[@badbones777]

Great stuff! Further to your points on things like Strength/Armour pen. and how shooting might have a different dynamic in a world of shorter charge ranges: It is possible that with Cavalry having a distinct charge reach advantage, that missile troops might be a pivotal piece of a rock/paper/scissors element, and might be a lot more useful in softening mounted troops up a little before they smash into your infantry. I also like the fact they are perhaps decoupling armour penetration from strength as well. This gives them a design space to really try some interesting things. Imagine things like swarms - my old Tomb Scarabs as a case in point - this allows them to still be kind of squishy, and make low strength attacks, but they could have relatively good penetration to represent how they can crawl inside armour and so could be a little bit of a threat to knights and armoured troops while still being what they are. Similarly this could allow for weapons that aren't necessarily all powerful against everything but have a level of threat that elite (and thus often armoured) troops have to be wary of - I'm thinking of perhaps some sort of Strength 3 missile weapon but with say penetration 2 - not really worth using against common troops any more than bowfire, but against elite armoured cavalry it could be a real danger. I'm not saying they will do this but it's something they could do and would allow for the design of quite niche troops and units that have a real place as tactical picks while not overshadowing good solid core units as a choice. I do like the idea of the design having the potential to feed into that medieval rock/paper/scissors dynamic of certain weapons and troop classes being a direct foil to others. It'll be interesting to see how they handle blackpowder weapons if we see any in the early goings as well. This is increasingly enthusing news and hopefully more good news will come out as we go forward!

[@DrBlaxill]

Great Post. I think that the rock paper scissors aspect will be emphasized in just the way you suggest. That's what they did in 9th age. I think they've taken some ideas from there (as I hoped).

[@Fenristhegreat]

Typical Gorthor, knew he'd enjoy AoS

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

DR LUKE GOING BLOW FOR BLOW. ALWAYS BASSED.

[@thelonelybolter8245]

#squarebassed

[@Mithoulagrenade]

I really like the separation of strength and armour piercing too. I think it will make picking equipment more impactful. A fully equipped dawi won’t get cut down like some naked umgi for example by the first s6 thing kicking around. About casting, why assume 2D6? Maybe a level 2 mage gets 3 dice, you can use them all to improve your chances… or risk it and cast a cheap 1 die spell on top of your 2 dice fireball.

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

"your 2 dice fireball" Your 2 dice non-AP fireball as our dwarves are only too happy to note!

[@julienb4036]

The analysis and historical knowledge is amazing. By far my favorite channel now for all things old world. I started in 6th Ed (and quit after end times). But bring on all the complexity. Why wish for 200page rules when you can have 300 pages?!

[@highmarshalkenneth3284]

Imight start a vampire count army again. Maybe tomb king.

[@Lassemalten]

Spears will probebly be like in 9th Age and get AP, wood elves spears AP2

[@DrBlaxill]

Hope so- I love how they work in T9A!

[@thecappeningchannel515]

Chefs kiss about movement and shooting so far.

[@tifuswanderer5727]

Best warhammer channel so far. Please keep up the good work, sir

[@idiotproofdalek]

Another Cracking Unboxing of Dr Blaxill’s unique perspectives on WHTOW. See you for the next one punks!

[@benw8825]

It’s the casual name dropping of specific wargear items for me. Dr Blaxill for Emperor

[@geirgilath]

I never knew how much I needed David Tennant doing deep analysis of Warhammer.

[@Althiii]

Flashbacks to university whilst watching this, I was subconsciously ready to start taking notes. I'd sit through a 3 hour old world shooting phase lecture any day of the week

[@vogless]

Doctor, you’re a NUT, and I LOVE it!!!! On a serious note with WFB. Some of the lead armies are ones that didn’t sell well, and the rules look really close to the old game. I wonder if the old game couldn’t make it then, how will it today? Hoping for new fiction for this older era.

[@scepteredisle]

it's obviously going to fail and everything they've done is the exact OPPOSITE of what needs to be done to bring Warhammer Fantasy back to the top of the league table and expose itself to the wider public again. one can't help but think this was deliberate. This clunky, primitive "new" ruleset is the same game that killed Warhammer. No one wants AoS, or to dumb it down - but the game should be as elegant and intelligent as possible with minimal barriers to entry. If the game doesn't consistently sell then it won't get any new plastic kits and isn't THAT why we're all here? (not that we can afford them I suppose...).

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

​@@scepteredisle " then it won't get any new plastic kits and isn't THAT why we're all here?" I'm going to venture a 'No' to that.

[@josephjustice4553]

This article is especially exciting (I’m a 5th-6th Ed guy). This makes me think the game is going to bring the complexity that drew me into the old game. 🤞🏻 Great rant…I mean exposition, Dr. (oh how I despise AoS and all it stands for)😉.

[@stefanthomas4868]

Should I dare to dream?

[@willbligh8343]

2 posts in 1 week. Epic.

[@elessar8522]

Bovine spongiform encephalitis ... one can't be more old school than that 😂

[@narwhalcheese]

*'spongeyfoam encepheritis* apparently... Prions clearly addled the cerebral cortex. Also, technically, Gorthor is a Caprigor, therefore would be unaffected by bovine diseases. Caprine Arthritis Encephalitis perhaps?

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

Having flashbacks to the burgers in my old school canteen right now...

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

@@narwhalcheese Scrapie I think it's called. Didn't it start with them and they were minced up in cattle feed or something (the Old World may be grotesque, but this world gives it a run for its money). In any case Wikipedia tells me that the Caprinae are a subfamily of the Bovidae, news to me I have to admit. I like a properly Bovine beastman as much as the next veteran of Warhammer 3rd Edition, but even better to see would be a return to Beastmen from entirely outwith the Bovidae! I doubt we're going to get that, but most other things look good at this point in proceedings so probably shouldn't grumble...

[@DrBlaxill]

@@ClydeMillerWynant yes, and a certain politician feeding his kids beefburgers on TV to prove they were okay!

[@samuelvoke2347]

I think the armour pen stuff is really interesting. I think everyone can agree that heavy armour in 8th really didn’t feel like very much. Hammerers struggling to make it across the table was a regular.

[@yankee1112]

My cockles were warmed when I saw the old hit and wound tables.

[@jclefbouncyrock]

You're quickly becoming one of my favorite channels!

[@thelastredcoat1662]

The level of complexity has made me cautiously optimistic. Perhaps I might have the opportunity to move on from 6th ed after all...

[@NisGaarde]

Excellent!

[@skeith1543]

Yes! my monsters might not need to fear one shot warmachines!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA Dragons for Days!

[@dethkknight]

I am getting quite excited about what is coming out about warhammer old world, I might need to 3D print some movement trays with spacers so I don’t need to re-base. Keep up the great work your news updates are amazing. Well done chummer

[@mrsnakesmrnot8499]

The Dr. has the BEST analysis, deductions, and comparisons to previous videos, in my proud opinion, and I watch ALL the various reaction videos regarding the Old World updates. Great work, and please keep enlightening us.

[@JonnyWatsonGaming]

Man I'm loving your content keep it coming!

[@HornsfromtheDeep]

Another lovely video show. thanks for the info.

[@Christian_Girl120]

I really like the explanation of the weapons. Very interesting. Knowing some (but not as much as you of course), about Warhammer, I can picture the battlefield as you speak! As usual a wonderful Analysis by someone who has played the game for over two decades! Warhammer Chaos and Conquest online knows nothing compared to what you know! You could teach them a thing or two! Keep up the good work Dr. Blaxill, these are great! Seeing the cards make it easier to know how all the moves are made. I really like these.

[@user-oc3xm9ip2d]

I love these regular announcements because they mean yet more excellent, incisive and always entertaining analysis!

[@zachmoss8896]

"Hello Punks" ...hahahaha

[@Petasus77]

Very much enjoying these videos. A kindred old WFB player. The video does appear to be missing the pictures for the discussion of spells though, just a black screen.

[@DrBlaxill]

correct- they vanished on the upload video. Opps!

[@Petasus77]

Probably a hex spell!

[@samuelvoke2347]

Fantastic. Do you put this content out in podcast form at all? Just so I can listen on the move

[@ChrisArchibald]

Well, this is fantastic news, Charts are back punks, and Movement rules for different kinds of formations (talked about in the previous video), Wepon penetration, and different attributes and Hints of Moral rules! "screening skull ammo". YES YES

[@ilovecokeslurpees]

It's like they shot down our fears.

[@ellesse3862]

My favourite announcement so far, wouldn't be Warhammer without the trusty to hit to wound charts .. phew, we have charts, framed by a lovely illustration too, nice. I look forward to the complete Shooting Rules for clarifications on all the special rules, mmm Armour Bane, most interesting. Magic being cast in every round .. that kind of recklessness could weaken the fabric of reality over time, heaven knows where that could lead.

[@intruder313]

Since the Longbow does not have AP I suspect Armour Bane is a little different: maybe it damages the armour by a point on the first hit!

[@TheJankmaster]

First thought is that modifiers won’t apply to the 2nd roll

[@fluidfox1436]

I'm still on the cautious side of optimistic, but it's starting to look like what I wanted.

[@DrBlaxill]

Some of the earlier reveals I was much less happy about, but the last two (especially this one) have been great

[@fluidfox1436]

No BS fixed to hit or wound is a big one for me.

[@Markell1991]

Oh Gorthor, when will you learn?

[@yankee1112]

I thought of your discussion with Bard when I saw the battle magic mentioned. I wonder if they’re really going the pre college magic route.

[@richtheunstable3359]

Maybe to hit modifiers modify your bow skill and not the dice roll?

[@mogwaiman6048]

All the granularity that will make it less popular than 40k and AoS. It really is better off as a specialist design studio game.

[@benneem]

I'm very surprised that they're going back to only the 1st rank being able to shoot unless they have the benefit of a hill or special rule. Long lines of handgunners and crossbowmen are back. On charges yes the average infantry charge is shorter (and especially their long bomb threat range is gone) but I'm worried for missile units because cavalry appear to be as fast as ever. But I won't mind if shooting is underpowered, its better that than the opposite. Also I would have thought that strange complexity for extremely high and low Ballistic Skill could have expanded into Strength vs Toughness. Ie- Strength 6 wounding Toughness 3 on a 2+/6+ Ie- Strength 3 wounding Toughness 6 on a 6+/4+ I like complexity, but it kinda annoys me when different mechanics have similar but slightly different complexity when they could be alike.

[@DrBlaxill]

Yes- I didn't like the long lines of the past (also having to check each model has arc requires more calculation). The formations are also not very pretty or photographic. I tend to agree- there is not a particular reason why that two-roll mechanic could not have been for wounding. But it clearly is not, just a strange niche thing for B6+. I'm waiting for WS- maybe 2+ and 6+ to hit will be in again, as in 3rd ed.

[@EliWintercross]

Would be cool if the first two ranks could fire without volley fire. Makes sense too since the first rank of gunners can crouch

[@kerel995]

Now to tha point: 1) i think midifiers to shewthink will be applied first to BS, not the table so -2 @bs8 will become 3+ , not other weird sheite. 2) 3rd ed wfb had AP separate from str. Yeha. Gime that moar. 3) if trolls and giants has more T and S than before (lets say troll is S6 T5 and giant is S7T7 than dat is super kewl and gud. Sad to see da 1st wfrb stat paradigm go but id be happy with more stuff rolling on battlefield with S/T of 7 or 8. But in whawl hewnestay i will think T9 and T10 will be reserved to castle walls, regrettabuly :(

[@fjalarhenriksson]

yes! my darkshards will still be lethal to most creatures :D I hope i will still be able to use my sorceresses to Dispell. All in all Great News.

[@mazikainen]

Great series, keep up the good work! But I have to say you have to be more considerate with your guests. You were ok with the Bard but you hardly let Gorthor get a word in!

[@Petasus77]

Wondering if the more detailed table for high BS will mean an extension of more stat lines to those higher levels (otherwise why bother with the detail for those numbers when before it was always just a 2+ for BS 5 and above). In the past even BS7 was a very rare outlier

[@crosshaireyes]

El Hefe of The Old World rules information!

[@adaml2910]

Quick shoutout to Val Heffelfinger who will be watching this video

[@kerel995]

Moooarrr

[@leobrown2075]

I think bs will work similar, you might have bs 8, but your long rang and moved which takes you to bs 6?

[@stevenkennedy4130]

Orky!!

[@markbedwell3100]

Skarbrand will be back for some bretonia blood, seems he has less chance of dying in the first turn in the old world 😂

[@DrBlaxill]

Ah yes. You might be interested to know that, in the few AOS games I played, I had Skarbrand in most of them and he ate the whole enemy army. His rules (where he got angrier and better the more damaged he got) was one of very few things I really liked about the game.

[@markbedwell3100]

@@DrBlaxill you means he wasn't a 600pts handicap? Maybe I'm playing the wrong game! Alas, I prefer proper games with neatly ranked up lunatics in red 😅

[@kerel995]

Pleasez where is my next fix of a video from my second most favourite doctor?

[@DrBlaxill]

;-)

[@Tymachos]

The offensive/defensive skill was actually the best thing at the 9th Age. This added a whole new tactical level to the game. Well, quite a good game, but didn't like the background.

[@SnEaKyGiTau]

I wouldn't be surprised if this was the plan all along, blow up fantasy with end times, people sell their armies, reboot with new system and players buy armies again.

[@GilthosDrakoniss]

😀

[@gsggodwin]

love this. please wear full Bretonnian peasant clothing for combat reveal. only speak in proper english. hoist thy lance high. FOR ZHE LADY

[@knedoshane]

There's just no proper discourse with Gors...

[@DrBlaxill]

Yes, I shot him down too fast there- should have encouraged him to develop his discursive capabilities

[@paulyg405]

They have that high BS reroll system in Heresy and I don't think I've remembered to use it once. Nice idea, but unnecessary.

[@FootofPork]

Gives some flavour and oomph to high BS characters. Take a Wood elf character with hail of doom arrows or a magical bow as an example. Also, spells that increase BS with D3 or something suddenly become stronger if comboed in a Nice way. I definitely like it.

[@paulyg405]

@@FootofPorkTrue, I think it's cool - and likely more impactful in fantasy? I just wonder though, they add depth in places like that but remove it in more obvious areas like magic. I'm very excited for this ruleset though, it's shaping up to be decent!

[@scepteredisle]

"How to kill your rebooted wargame in 30 days." You look forward to playing new warhammer players? Lol. No. You won't be. For the exact reasons you discussed at the end of this video. I think there's a lot of people here who are being selfish or short-sighted. A tiny niche for those who enjoy the kind of wargame WFB was in the past (when it was prevented from ever really evolving due to the Army Books) but 6th ed the game was dying and 8th ed was just a ploy to get the already small number of players left to double the size of their existing army i.e. the horde rule. 9th age is the opposite of what GW should have been looking at. No one wants AoS but WFB's 100 page ruleset was mostly junk: the ILLUSION of strategy. And the reason this is terrible is because, much like Horus Heresy that refused to cut out the fat of 7th Ed 40K, this game will surge sales on launch but have zero retention and die off soon enough i.e. you WON'T be getting new plastic kits. And THAT'S what most of us want. We love the IP and want to play a good game with that IP: we don't want the same ruleset that was rejected by the majority. HH 2.0 has only now got new plastic infantry models after, what, 1.5 years? And those new MK3s aren't even 100% new, they've used the same files from the MK5s and re-skinned them in CAD! We want new plastic High Elves and Dwarves. Most of us want new range refreshes. And we're just not going to get any of that if Old World is just a niche product. So as you "toast" to getting an almost exact replica of a dead game - that killed off a franchise - brought back to life, maybe spare a thought for the majority and all those people that COULD have joined the hobby but won't now. AoS is an abortion though, true. And it's great they kept the strength vs toughness stuff in.

[@kerel995]

Tanks Gods for AoS. All the pay to win wizards of the coast mobile game marketing cheap microtransaction league of legends contemporary hate yourself sheites elements of wargaming got sucked into that whirpool of scum. Let them have it. Lets be grateful for it. Praise Age of Sigmar. Best game ever. Let them eat manure so we can savour in unusable, unmarketable design solutions in new iteration of our warhammer. Let the marketing lords savour on AoS players souls voraciously as they should. Let us pass unnoticed. Let us sulk in our safe corner. Lets love AoS players for their sacrifice unto Dark Gods. Let's cherish the benefit we all take of it. Maybe. Just maybe, the old world will be Da Ediktion lending to itself more to houserulling the good bejesus of even more better than the good old 3rd! I am hopeful. Cadia stands. For Gork and Mork and all the Bad Suns and Eveil Mewns! I am game. Let there be yellow light! Love you aos players. You rule. You are true warhammer!

[@DrBlaxill]

This may indeed be one of the great comments I was thinking about a poem actually. Or a chant, anyway. baaaa!!!! 3RD ED GOOD! AOS BAD! baaaa!!!!

[@kerel995]

@@DrBlaxill that is called Haiku in some cultures. Yet the point was that AoS does play useful role of a villain. Functionalist paradigm in sociology here. Thanks god we have criminals so we all know how to walk the path of righteousness and good. And let them all pay the price.

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

@@kerel995 "that is called Haiku in some cultures" It's almost certainly called a Haiku in the culture of Warhammer 2nd and 3rd Editions. Can't actually remember them writing any deliberately silly Haikus for Nippon, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they did.

[@TheVergoner]

I feel so welcomed in this community already. 🙄

[@kerel995]

@@TheVergoner Shush! What you see here is not representative of The Old World community that is yet to form itself around the game. This special breed of old men shouting at the clouds!

[@db9631]

This guy's delivery is second only to Arch Warhammer in terms of cringeworthiness.

[@DrBlaxill]

Love you 💕

[@idiotproofdalek]

You must have noticed his tongue being firmly planted in his cheek throughout, surely…?

[@Ethnarches]

Come on now, he is great! Don't take it too seriously.

[@namewastaken360]

Except here it's done for humor, whereas that other guy is an anglophile far-right reactionary who wishes he was landed gentry.

[@jaqssmith1666]

nah, Arch seems to forget that he's talking about little plastic men. DrBlaxill has the right amount of cheek to keep it from getting cringe.