Warpfire Challenge: Coalesced Seraphon vs. Skaven (2024) Warhammer Age of Sigmar Battle Report

Another Challenge game in the books! This time it's Dinos vs. Skaven, can the rats win the day?
Army Faction: Seraphon
Army Type: Coalesced
Army Subfaction: Koatl's Claw
Grand Strategy: Overshadow
Triumphs: Inspired
LEADER
1 x Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)*
General
Command Traits: Vengeful Defender
Artefacts: Sotek’s Gaze
1 x Skink Oracle on Troglodon (270)
Spells: Heavenly Frenzy
1 x Skink Starseer (160)
Spells: Hoarfrost
1 x Saurus Scar-Veteran on Aggradon (160)
Relic Celestite Spear
Artefacts: Blade of Realities
BATTLELINE
3 x Aggradon Lancers (190)
Celestite Spear
3 x Aggradon Lancers (190)
Celestite Spear
3 x Aggradon Lancers (190)
Celestite Club
10 x Saurus Warriors (180)*
Celestite Club
10 x Saurus Warriors (180)*
Celestite Club
6 x Kroxigor (160)
CORE BATTALIONS:
*Wizard-finders of Andtor
**Warlord
TOTAL POINTS: (2000/2000)
vs.
Army Lists:
Army Faction: Skaven
Grand Strategy: Arch-corruptors of the Mortal Realms
Triumph: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Grey Seer (110)*
Spells: Death Frenzy, Merciless Blizzard
Grey Seer (110)*
Spells: Merciless Blizzard, Skitterleap
Skabbik Plagueseeker (140)
Prayers: Disease-disease!
Plague Priest (100)
Prayers: Heal
Plague Priest On Plague Furnace (270)
General
Command Traits: Ridden with Poxes
Artefacts of Power: The Fumigatous
Prayers: Curse
Lord Skreech Verminking (370)*
BATTLELINE
Clanrats (100)
Clanrats (100)
Plague Censer Bearers (200)
OTHER
Gutter Runners (200)
Skabbik’s Plaguepack (140)
Hell Pit Abomination (180)
Warp-Grinder (60)
Warp-Grinder (60)
CORE BATTALIONS
Andtorian Acolytes
Warlord
Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000

[@visuellegedanken]

I love watching you play. So many little good plays and decisions. This was a Masterclass in outmaneuvering the opponent. I don’t know how many different armies you play but I definitely get the vibe that this is YOUR army and you know it inside out. You motivate me to really focus in on one or two armies for a longer while to really master it. Cheers!

[@justinmulhollen5656]

I love these videos to help improve my own tactical thinking during the game. Can’t beat the Lumineth my buddies plays what so ever but learning from you has gotten me closer! One day, haha.

[@WolfChildRusk]

As a struggling skaven player, you are an inspiration.

[@schwandidondi1196]

Hey! Could you make a video explaining unit coherency? I feel thats something newer players would need help with understanding! Im one of them.... love your videos!!!

[@chlorarthur9638]

Basically all your models should be within 1 inch of 2 other models, unless you have only 6 or less models. Sometimes there are exceptions but they all are written on warscrolls. The big thing comes from base sizes, 25 mm are less than an inch, so they stay in a straight line because of the base size

[@chlorarthur9638]

And you should follow the rules of coherency on normal moves and charges, you can remove models out of coherency when they are slain and make a pile in out of coherency, but after the battle shock every model out of coherency is slain Hope this helps

[@schwandidondi1196]

@@chlorarthur9638 Wait so like becuase Clan rats are 25mm bases they can just make a big wall? Everyone at my local store says I cant do what he does in this video with making a big screen.

[@kalestu_]

@@schwandidondi1196 their base is bellow 1" so a model is within 1" of the two next ones over at all times if they are base to base - that way you can always keep coherency if you are exactly base to base with 25mm bases

[@chlorarthur9638]

@@schwandidondi1196 yes, you can the only condition was written above

[@WarpstoneHoarder]

Another masterclass!!! looking forward to the next challenge!

[@Joe_Murph]

I love your battle reports, they're always so informative and well done

[@bencutri7233]

Awesome battle report as always, I really love your style ❤️ As a Seraphon player myself, I saw a few things that he could have done differently with deployment and movement to set up for better tactics and a GS later (but overshadow is just so hard against those armies with movement shenanigans like Skaven lol). But ultimately you had a great movement game, nice job! 😊

[@alvarosalvador5392]

Best battle reports on KZbin by far. It would be awesome if yoy could play different armies from time to time. I am not Skaven player but still I learn a lot about positioning and thinking thanks to your videos

[@jasonmangelsen7136]

Yes-yes, skaven are always a claw up!

[@jaksautsendari]

Very interesting game which show that thats point game, not killing game ;) Great job as always, nice to see every your vid! For next wednesday! ;D

[@mckeighry]

More-more Warpfire battle reports!!

[@Cptbaron]

My fav bat reps!!! Love it

[@SpinupSquad]

As a new player, these are absolutely fundamental to solid game decision making and enjoyment of ones army. I'd really love to see how your dealing with fyreslayers (w/Gotrek) and how that impacts on your decision making in each turn.

[@warpfireminis]

Playing a Fyreslayers Challenge Game tomorrow potentially! No Gotrek, but 4 Magmadroths + 10 Hearthguard Berzerkers + some support heroes.

[@nicksiegrist378]

Whoa! I never knew you could go through a gnawhole twice with the same unit! That is crazy. Is there an FAQ or something that says you can do two moves at the end of movement phase?

[@warpfireminis]

The ability is from the Gnawhole itself, and each Gnawhole can activate once!

[@ScreamingD]

Awesome batrep as usual! Rules question: If you had killed the target with the gutter runners and therefore instead charged the general, would you have had a penalty to the movement when going over the terrain piece between the gutter runners and the general?

[@warpfireminis]

There was one Gutter Runner out on the very edge that was just outside of 9" of the General, and then for the actual game that terrain piece was flat and didn't have the wall in the way! You're right though, if you had to charge through the wall you'd have to measure up and down it, or around it.

[@jb87rell]

Thanks for another!

[@Vortid]

Great as always!

[@DustinDalziel777]

As a Seraphon player i was rooting for him, he probably overcommitted to that one side but I can't entirely blame him. Wanna make sure you take out those big threats on that right side. But seemed like he kinda shyed away from the fight on the left. But smart play on your part Jordan.

[@veermudambi5795]

Won in true cunning Skaven fashion!

[@martinhgdahlzamastil4430]

Great battle, I had you loosing that after round two, but cunning skaven got it done … yes yessss, question for clarification: core rules 4.1 on priority roll, says you roll off and in case of a tie then do not roll again, instead - battleturn one he who finished deploying first has priority. Now the question, it sounds like you do not do the roll off for turn one?

[@warpfireminis]

Whoever finishes deploying first gets to choose who goes first for the very first battle round. After that it becomes a dice roll each turn from turn 2 and on!

[@kaaven]

Your battle reports are amazing, you have thought me so many new things I didn't know my army could do! I've played pestilens for a year where I've used most of this army, and love it! I'm having a tournament upcoming and a considering the gutter runners + warp grinder. My other option is 2 catapults and 1-2 endless spells. I've only been playing for a year, and this is my first real tournament. Would you go for the catapults which I have or are the gutter runners a solid choice?

[@warpfireminis]

Plagueclaws are actually pretty solid right now, but if I had the points I'm going with the Gutters + Grinder for sure. They're more mobile, do similar damage (into anything, not just hordes!), are very good at assassinating heroes, and just having 10 bodies on an objective is always good.

[@kaaven]

@@warpfireminis then I will try to get the models or kitbash them. Thanks for the reply and insight!

[@joshweatherston7072]

@@kaaven the skaven bloodbowl team makes some nice gutter/night runner proxies!

[@kaaven]

@@joshweatherston7072 thanks for the tip, I just might get them 😁

[@3diyfr43]

So Mystic shield and All out defense can stack up? I thought that wasn't possible!

[@warpfireminis]

Stack it up! You can never make the actual save better than +1 so something with a 4+ save can only get to a 3+ max, BUT the extra pluses to save can help negate the rend coming at you!

[@3diyfr43]

@@warpfireminis oh my God thanks for that tips!

[@skylerjelly8116]

Loved this, please keep these videos coming. The positioning tricks and playing to your win condition was really impressive. I was curios though, is there a reason that you set up these videos from your opponent's perspective (i.e. the rats are always on the far side of the board)?

[@warpfireminis]

Haha, I actually haven't noticed that; I think I'm just used to having the Rats in front of me. I'll see about flipping it around on one of these future ones!

[@biowiener7825]

love those videos, always glad to see skaven content and you are one of the best i have 2 questions: 1. any reason that you did not use the warbringer here? any why exacly did you switch the 2nd unit of 10pcb's for the gutter runners? some range threat or just mixing things up? 2. what do you think about skittershanks clawpack?

[@warpfireminis]

1. This new list I'm running I'm shooting for a stronger Grand Strat, and with the three Priests it gives access to that Prayer tactic which is a really big deal; there just isn't any room left for the Warbringer hero-wise. 2. Using the Gutter Runners instead of the PCB's just gives me a different tool to use. They don't do as much raw damage, but they are guaranteed to at least shoot when they come in, and then have the potential to shoot and kill one unit, then hit the charge and kill another, which is something the PCB's could never do. More of a scalpel than a hammer! 3. Skittershanks has some play, but again with the Grand Strat I just don't have room for the hero. I wouldn't personally use him as I just don't like HAVING to drop them in turn 1; good players can just screen you out.

[@biowiener7825]

@@warpfireminis thank you for the answer, very interesting adjustments to your list, the hero dependency is rather annoying while other armies just score stuff for free but well. i tried gutter runners aswell and i really liked them, was really lucky on the rolls though and i really like eshin in general. im also hoping for lots of videos after the refresh dropped, would love to hear your opinion on those, my hopes are high for stormvermin as a viable hammer

[@warpfireminis]

@@biowiener7825 I'm with you, wish we had a better Grand Strat that didn't lock us in on heroes. Will definitely drop a bunch of videos when we get more info on 4th! Hopefully one day they let me in the early release program so I can get a head start on all this stuff!

[@biowiener7825]

@@warpfireminis you would definatly deserve an early access, i learned so much from your videos, i hope one day you'll get into the program

[@massqueraider]

Wait are you allowed to return clanrats into combat within 3 of enemy models at the end of the battleshock ?

[@warpfireminis]

If your Clanrat squad is within 3" of that enemy unit, you can return models in range of them. You just can't return them and use the new ones to bring a new unit into combat.

[@massqueraider]

​@warpfireminis great to know thanks for the reply :)

[@Jelle1880]

Can you explain how you moved the 8 clanrats to the GH and then immediately back ? I always thought that if you moved a unit from one GH to another one you could only move them again in the next turn ?

[@warpfireminis]

Each Gnawhole can be activated (jumped into) once per turn, so you can jump from one to another, then activate that new one you're next to and jump back!

[@Jelle1880]

Awesome, thanks! So I assume the only reason you'd do that is for movement or positioning stuff like you did there ?

[@warpfireminis]

Pretty much, just to shuffle things around a little bit, or jump something behind a screen.

[@Jelle1880]

@@warpfireminis Thanks!

[@hanniballecture]

Really amazing battle report from both sides. Where do you think the seraphon player went wrong?

[@warpfireminis]

On this one I think he just over dedicated resources to that right side. If he had kept the Kroxigors on that center point, or even had the Saurus Warriors more dead center on the objective the game would have been a lot tougher!

[@harryl-a1351]

He had more than enough of an investment to kill the right hand side. 100% Jordon is right with staying central on an objective, you are then blocking any models coming in 9” away getting on the objective unless they make a charge. The troglodon should have stayed central & on the objective after it killed the gutter runners. + Astro would have been 16 model count on the objective. Overshadow is a pain in some matchups, personally I would have either given arcane tome to the Astro for spellcasting savant. Or gone for continuous expansion, which is a lot easier to do when you’ve had the practice. Personally I wouldn’t have done surround T1. Sometimes if you’re going to be down on points, positioning means more than scoring a BT but units doing nothing the next turn. Trying to brute force magical dom may have been an option, given that Skaven has so many heroes to heroic will power at any point. Failing would have left you in the same position point wise, but a different board state. I look forward to the rematch and the Lizard victory!

[@meowan22]

Thanks for the grat contet. In my opinion you make the best summaries of AOS games on youtube. Unfortunately, this game shows an aspect of AOS that I personally don't like. When you start adding up the victory points in the second or third round and know exactly how many victory points you will get through which battle tactics in the remaining rounds, warhammer takes on a very abstract, board game-like character for me. it really takes me out of the immersion of 2 armies facing each other and fighting an epic battle. I know that's what the narrative games are for. But even in the competitive games, i think it would be better if you played as well as possible, but only knew who had emerged victorious at the very end of the battle, not after round 2 or 3. what do you think?

[@warpfireminis]

For these Challenge games myself and the opponent are both playing very competitively, we both want to win. The competitive mindset does take some of the narrative aspects out and turns it into a chess match, but if you want to play narratively there's still nothing stopping you! For every game you can tell who has the lead by the half-way mark and who the favorite is to win, but there are still plenty of competitive games in Sigmar where turn 5 is the deciding factor!

[@enterthemancave6324]

Did your opponent forgot his starseer can unbind boardwide,or did he just whiff all his unbinds turn 1?

[@harryl-a1351]

It’s only the Slann & Kroak that can do that

[@enterthemancave6324]

@@harryl-a1351 right my bad i saw the slann model not realising its a proxy

[@warpfireminis]

Yep, they got it! Starseer can't do boardwide just Kroak and the Slann. I'm using the old Kroak model as a proxy, the new one's a lot a bigger!