Was Hannibal A Hero?

Visit www.shortform.... for a free trial and a 20% discount.
Hannibal was a great general, but did he have what it takes to be a hero? Should we wish that ancient Carthage had beaten the might of Rome?
Support me on Patreon: / lindybeige
Buy the music - the music played at the end of my videos is now available here: lindybeige.ban...
Buy tat (merch):
www.bonfire.co...
More videos here:
All Lindybeige: • All Lindybeige
Lindybeige: a channel of archaeology, ancient and medieval warfare, rants, swing dance, travelogues, evolution, and whatever else occurs to me to make.
▼ Follow me...
Twitter: / lindybeige I may have some drivel to contribute to the Twittersphere, plus you get notice of uploads.
Facebook: / lindybeige
My website:
www.LloydianAsp...
Channel page:
/ lindybeige

[@lindybeige]

Visit www.shortform.com/lindybeige for a free trial and a 20% discount.

[@stollstoll1691]

Sir yes sir

[@numbers8908]

Sir yes sir

[@johndorilag4129]

Hannibal is overrated

[@annunakim525]

more roman stuff pls sir

[@Cba409]

If Hannibal cant take on Russia then Ukraine is truly doomed. I hope you all got the hint.

[@Grunttamer]

I bet someone could make a graphic novel about this

[@richardcranium5329]

It’s been made lol

[@MrHazz111]

And release it this century

[@tomhirons7475]

@@richardcranium5329 when is it due out ??

[@Quicksilver_Cookie]

@@tomhirons7475 Due? Like a few years ago, give or take.

[@bogdanovist]

Bet they could try at least...

[@clonemarine1]

Stating the obvious here, but 5% of the population means that one in twenty Roman citizens died at Cannae. Statistically, if you were a Roman citizen, if you hadn't been one of those who died, you probably personally knew at least 3 or 4 people who died at that battle. That's gonna mess you up mentally.

[@leonardomarquesbellini]

Specially when you consider who's actually fighting. It's not a lottery that selects people at random, it's mostly people from a specific demographic that go die in wars, so for survivors from that particular demograaphy the relative impact is even greater. It's known Tolkien and Lewis were both WW1 survivors and (not so coincidentally) went on to become authors of great renown in Fantasy. But they weren't the only young people who, before the war, were interested in that genre and were in fact accompanied by many other prospective writers from the British universities' circles, most of which died there and never got the chance to write and find huge success like those 2 did. Similarly it's a macabre anecdote that the university of Istanbul took quite a few years to graduate its first medical doctor after the war even though students were allowed to resume studies where they had stopped, simply because almost every last student who had been enrolled in the medicine course when the war broke out died there ir were otherwise unable to resume studies, so the university needed to start everything from scratch again.

[@lollerkeet]

It's not just Rome though - there were Latin allies also fighting. Going by the population of the city-state, rather than the greater confederacy, is a bit misleading.

[@Leo-ok3uj]

That 5% being estimated as 20% of the adult male population

[@khankhomrad8855]

Terrible, isn't it? It wasn't only Rome who blead, but also its allies. Lole Lindy showed, Rome and its allies had an incredibly deep manpower reserve and the willingness to keep going no matter the costs.

[@cr-pol]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4OzioyKnq2gms0

[@mhovar101]

We got an hour long lindybeige history video. We are so back

[@olleolausson]

Are you a drainer?

[@ramixnudles7958]

​@@olleolaussonI've got a 30' snake...

[@olleolausson]

@@ramixnudles7958 Almost everyone I meet says that you are a pathological liar so I don't think so.

[@ramixnudles7958]

@@olleolausson I'll nevertheless fix your drain. I will charge extra, and I will wear my extra-large plumber's jeans.

[@junefranklin458]

@@olleolaussonu drane u gane

[@stigfries]

Now this is the kind of content I absolutely want to watch.

[@VilleKivinen]

It would even be a great idea for a graphic novel.

[@JohnM-cd4ou]

Yes, it feels like eons since he's done content like this

[@davesmith7432]

You’re right! This is what YT is supposed to be

[@jaymz6473]

I've skipped most of Lloyd's recent content if I'm honest. This is why I'm here.

[@VilleKivinen]

@@jaymz6473 I've watched all his stuff ever since he made points about slings and Greek helmets, except for the Q&A videos. I'd certainly like to see more of these hour long lectures from him.

[@singami465]

while i do think some of his decisions were quite Graphic, you cant underestimate his Novel tactics

[@georgebaggy]

Your words are quite illustrating

[@Dexroid]

The way you describe it, I can almost see it with my mind eye. It's comical how clear you make it.

[@Zakalwe-01]

Thanks for drawing my attention to this. I was wondering why my wallet felt so light while watching this video.

[@SydneyCarton_dies]

Please don’t mention the war

[@MrSuperpiff4]

you really Kickstarted my brain with this one

[@Buggsy1061]

So basically, Hannibal was human? Flawd but brilliant, intelligent but violent, a soldiers general and his enemies worst nightmare. A hero to some and a villan to others... Just like every "hero" from antiquity?

[@uncletiggermclaren7592]

You forgot to exclude King Arthur from that, but that was merely because you understood everyone would know you meant to. Right ?.

[@Buggsy1061]

@@uncletiggermclaren7592 well apart from the tact that Arthur was al legend, and no one knows if the real man even existed, no o didn't forget to exclude him Arthur. He too was, if he ever took breath, human. And as such was flawed.

[@uncletiggermclaren7592]

@@Buggsy1061 Ha , that sort of logic is fine for lessor men like Charlemagne and Washington, but you know perfectly well that you can't include Arthur in that group.

[@sidtheslothwhy8706]

​@uncletiggermclaren7592 Keep our first president out yo mouff. George was the first man to rule the best country on earth. Keep your Hannibals and Arthur's we don't need them because we had G'd up Washington.

[@uncletiggermclaren7592]

@@sidtheslothwhy8706 Well, enough people spoke well of the man at the time, even nominal "enemies" called him a Gentleman and the soul of Probity. I will grant you he was a Good man. But he was no King Arthur.

[@cameronw6541]

Finally some of his good old fashioned content!!!

[@cr-pol]

it has also been a while since we have seen a Lindy dance on this channel.

[@ragingassassin6659]

I suppose my "search of Hannibal" content has finally come to an end... for now

[@smoothcast6940]

I swear that's exactly what I thought

[@SephonDK]

He's a hero in the old Greek sense. His story and the drama around him are awe-striking. With the many years past what he did, it's one of those things where you can sit and read about the guy and get pulled in. And him being a complicated or dangerous man doesn't matter in the older sense. Heracles was completely terrifying in the og mythology.

[@leonardomarquesbellini]

Heroes are fun because they're as good as fiction to us. Actually having yoir own real life caught up in the actions of people who go down in history probably feels a whole lot worse.

[@doomdrake123]

My thoughts exactly.

[@lc1138]

I deeply agree.

[@svon1]

yeah in a Greek sense it makes sense but modern view, ah hell no, the wars he started for revenge are just nuts, and its not like "they killed my family" revenge, its petty "they gave us a harsh treaty" revenge after we had a war with them

[@markmorris7123]

​@@svon1errr, petty?? Rome practically went to war and conquered the whole known world.. Hannibal had to go to war with Rome.. For eventually Rome would have brought the war themselves..Rome was a pure military state.

[@tehpanda64]

As someone who measures heroes purely on their ability to march elephants over the alps: I'd say he's up there with the best of them.

[@leonardoaguilar7343]

Poor Hannibal, he was just trying to destroy Rome is all.

[@vacuousbard6410]

Yeah. Those damn Romans sure hated fun, didn't they?

[@lynneframe3390]

Victim then?

[@joundii3100]

That's exactly what makes him a hero.

[@SuperFranzs]

Good riddance! What have the Romans ever done for us?

[@ASlickNamedPimpback]

@@SuperFranzs the aqueducts?

[@jamememes4114]

3:24 "You've got to pay your mercenaries, everyone" best advice I've heard today 🤣

[@neilwu3912]

Russia: hold my vodka, where are my exploitable minorities?

[@JohnM-cd4ou]

FINALLY Lloyd again uploads an hour of historical spergery that we all know and love him for

[@brenttrotter88]

These are his best videos. Nothing better than an hour long rambling on a subject.

[@shurdi3]

I knew him for 7-10 minute long videos about "A point about" and weird rants about children smoking and saying no to a dance.

[@danithefoot633]

Finally a long form Lloyd

[@craigrobbins2463]

He is a rather clever man though. His short form is very compelling too.

[@Alfenium]

George Lloyd

[@johnknox6023]

@@Alfenium what did you mean by this...

[@niono1587]

I love me long form Lloyd

[@The_Gallowglass]

Finally a long from Lloyd? That's what she said?

[@Gilgwathir]

"Written by an actual human" I can't believe that this has become a necessary qualifier 😭

[@technoman9000]

Verbs are dead

[@FringeSpectre]

Welcome to the Information Apocalypse. In a very short time, you won't be able to trust ANYTHING you see in the media, or online in general. Unless you see it in real life, you simply won't be able to trust it. Pandora's Box has been opened, and there's no shutting it.

[@max-zv7sf]

We are in the future, but it turns out that the future is awful.

[@fransmars1645]

How do we know your comment was written by a human? Or this one?

[@gloomfiend]

Dont know if I would call him a hero, especially after learning that he ate the liver of that census taker with fava beans and a nice chianti

[@kanutahytomka4542]

its pronounced chianti

[@dogwalker666]

Silly that's the wrong Hanibal, He was actually the leader of the A team, 😂

[@P-Mouse]

maybe if it was a Malbec

[@gustafprates2170]

I’m ‘in search’ of all graphic novel comments

[@joek600]

@@sassenspeyghel4155 not exactly cause they didnt pay in advance lol

[@jhtar]

​@@joek600Some actually think they did by buying the first books...

[@MrSuperpiff4]

@@joek600 oh wanna bet?

[@lopedeaguirre1]

So basically, this can be distilled as "he's not a heroic figure because he lost in the end." But that just makes his story seem tragic, almost romantic. I'm not sure if this thesis holds up. You could argue any heroic figure fails in the end because all glory is fleeting.

[@Robert399]

50:48 This is something that really bothers me in movies and *especially* video games. In action movies/most games we often have the attitude that only important characters count as real people. I especially hate when games have you kill an army's worth of soldiers/security guards/"thugs" for token gameplay then present you a "moral" choice about what to do with the boss who's actually responsible. Can you imagine if your boss was secretly a child trafficker or something and some action man kicked down the door, shot you and all your coworkers, cornered your boss, then had the gall to say, "no, this isn't justice, I'm not a murderer, I have to bring you in."

[@lukasg4807]

Like any of the batman games. The shit he does to the gaurds would definitely kill them, but taking out joker to save a bunch of lives is too far.

[@stevenjohnson4190]

​@@lukasg4807davros calling the Dr for genocide when that was the pure intention of the darleks.

[@Marwolaeth01]

Serves us right for working for a bad guy. I mean, come on, obviously we all know what happens in the lives of people we work with.

[@olddirtybasterd-ex2vb]

@@Marwolaeth01 Come now... Most ALL workers find themselves employed out of necessity and not want. Only a small percentage of humans have a career they want.

[@ilari90]

@@lukasg4807 Well, bruce is a crazy nutjob at times

[@TheLegoJungle]

Where is the VOTE ?

[@VosperCDN]

Perhaps a hero is needed for finding this "vote here" post he refers to - I can't see it yet, at time of writing this reply.

[@robertbruce7686]

'Twas a ruse on Sir Lindybeige's part methinks....

[@boldCactuslad]

maybe the real vote is in our hearts

[@JM-sy1by]

It got buried down the list by the downvotes: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3zCc4SHZrJsa5I&lc=UgzViag4YOT26hL65SB4AaABAg

[@JM-sy1by]

You have to copy/paste the link because yt chops it. Or just scroll down long enough and find it that way

[@EvMund]

I didn't expect you to have the nerve to publicly utter the name "hannibal" until your book comes out

[@cryhavocandletslipthedogso1873]

He really should communicate the progress a bit more, but you guys are really impatient

[@PatrickOMulligan]

​@@cryhavocandletslipthedogso1873are you joking?

[@EvMund]

It was slated to come out mid 2017.

[@cryhavocandletslipthedogso1873]

F**k, it's THAT bad?! And that much time has gone by? Okay, fair enough guys. 7 years is plenty for a little bit of impatience

[@thotmorrison2649]

literally lay off though, he may have very little influence on when it is published at this point and have no new info to provide

[@lubue5795]

These are the videos I follow this channel for! Long, rambly video of a historian about a historical topic based on facts with a ting of personal inputs. Thank you for uploading again, Lindy.

[@1988rastafari]

+1

[@lindybeige]

VOTE HERE With this comment (and not the video itself), we can decide between us whether Hannibal was a hero or not. If you wish to register a vote in favour of Hannibal's being considered a hero, click the thumbs-up to 'like' this comment. If, on the other hand, you think that we should not consider him a hero, then click the thumbs-down icon on this comment to 'dislike' this comment. Note that this vote is not between 'hero' and 'villain' but is instead between 'hero' and simply 'not hero'. Oh dear - well KZbin is not letting me how the number of dislikes, so this isn't working as I had hoped. I have set up a 'community poll' for this vote. I think that in order to vote, you have to subscribe. Would it be worth it? Only you can decide.

[@lilacheaven222]

You could make a community poll. We can't see how many people voted "hero" vs "not hero" otherwise:(

[@chrisrubin6445]

are you able to see the amount of thumbs downs? and youll tell us?

[@TheWaffle654]

All these factors to consider, and I'm still so unsure. I've read Livy and Polybius, and goodness knows how many other retellings and recapitulations of the punic wars, and every time I find myself rooting for him; and everybody I know personally who knows of the stories feels the same way. I do not know if he is a hero, but I can say for certain that he is the protagonist of the second punic war.

[@python27au]

From what I’ve heard he was a fantastic leader and strategist, he might have even been a nice bloke, by the standards of the day, but I wouldn’t call him a hero. Too many people died for too little.

[@symmetrie_bruch]

i vote for releasing the graphic novel. i only vaguely followed the whole thing due to beeing interested in the subject but not in graphic novels. so i was really surprised to see people in the comments saying it´s still not out. hasn´t it been almost a decade now? and then releasing a video about that topic and not even a word about the kickstarter? lol that´s hannibal levels of brazenness.

[@rcrawford42]

One of my favorite -- if gruesome -- passages from "Ghosts of Cannae": "By way of approximation we can consider each Roman weighed 130 pounds-they were lighter than modern men. Then there would have been well in excess of *six million pounds of human meat* left to rot in the August sun-the true fruits of Hannibal’s tactical masterpiece, at least for an air force of vultures." O'Connell, Robert L.. The Ghosts of Cannae: Hannibal and the Darkest Hour of the Roman Republic (p. 222). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

[@tj-co9go]

really? that is so low. average american male weighs 197,9 pounds. which is over half more than the Romans weighed.

[@ALEXBOWN]

​@@tj-co9go People who eat all grain diets without quality proteins do not grow tall.

[@PeteOtton]

@@tj-co9go If I remember correctly the average US service man weighed in at about 150 lbs.

[@listrahtes]

​@@tj-co9go You can't compare average weight of an overweight inactive nation to infantry soldiers. Compared to their physical training regime look up SF soldiers and most have a very lean built as that is the most helpful on the battlefield. Also romans were quite shorter. They were around 165-170 in height. 130lbs at 165 is a very fit healthy weight with an BMI of around 21

[@iansalgado3663]

Where is your graphic novel that you told a 17 year old version of me it would be out next year!?! I’m 24 now!

[@DrZip]

@28:30 Why did Hannibal do that out of respect for Marsellus? -Because... he URNED it.

[@johnnyjolijt2]

😖

[@DrZip]

@@johnnyjolijt2

[@johnnyjolijt2]

@@DrZip

[@carltonbauheimer]

The audacity

[@CaptainBogroll]

He said he expects it to release this year, perhaps that caused him to make this video

[@Leo-ok3uj]

@@CaptainBogroll Fucking finally

[@nader50752]

Great video! 🤗 However, since you announced your novel, I started and finished 6th form, graduated from university, moved to Italy, worked there for a year, moved to Germany, and worked here for the past 2 years. Still no novel though. 😢😢😢

[@puliturchannel7225]

You capitalist whiner... "All to me at once" kind of attitude.

[@thoughtsuponatime847]

Yes. But have you conquered Italy yet? I think the illustrator needs some inspiration. Would you mind giving it a go?

[@nader50752]

@@thoughtsuponatime847 I'll try 😮‍💨😮‍💨😮‍💨

[@cookingonthecheapcheap6921]

I'll be buying the graphic novel as soon as it is released. I've been following you for years, and I can't wait to give some more back for all the entertainment you've given us. Cheers Lindy.

[@lilacheaven222]

I'm so early the video doesn't even have sound

[@lilacheaven222]

Also the format is borked! It shows a 1:1 format

[@lindybeige]

@@lilacheaven222 Strange. It plays fine for me.

[@miserychannel666]

@@lindybeige .. me as well.

[@jonnaylor3154]

Hero.😎

[@lilacheaven222]

​@@lindybeigeit's fixed now! I see I wasn't the only one experiencing the issue though

[@suburbanbanshee]

Campbell's hero journey: 1. Pick out specific style of story about coming of age 2. Bash some famous stories until they fit 3. Ignore all other heroic stories and myths 4. Profit! And of course, the pagan ancient world was looking for heroes to be ancestors to whom one sacrificed and built altars. Or appeased because they might be angry.

[@patrickholt2270]

It's also a genre of myth that teaches messages about how to overcome fears, become a man and seek greatness if you have the advantages to be able to do so. In that myths are always moral, theological and wisdom instruction packaged in story forms for ease of transmission, for the benefit of people who otherwise wouldn't listen.

[@dan_mer]

You actually believe the advice Hannibal gave to Antiochus was selfless and honorable? Hannibal intentionally destroyed the Seleucid Empire by consistently giving Antiochus terrible advice hoping he would start a war against the Romans.

[@magnificentname]

How do you know it's intentional, and what would he gain from destroying the seleucids?

[@pepearagoneses6908]

Goddammit, Lloyd! You put a one-our video out the minute I'm going to bed? I guess I'll have to stay up now!

[@davesmith7432]

Me too😂

[@jonnaylor3154]

And me!😎

[@thedandyzebra]

15 years at war, in enemy territory, being able to maintain that size and diverse of an army, and winning is freaking insane

[@tokul76]

So basically nomad roaming around and taking stuff. Mongols did it with army twice as big.

[@swayback7375]

Hero or not, it seems a very impressive feat… capable as he clearly was, he didn’t do this alone. To me it seems this topic is dripping with that old, outdated and disproven “great man” idea…

[@leonardomarquesbellini]

That would imply there's heroism in killing. All of that is astounding and difficult to achieve, no doubt, but all it ever accomplished was hundreds of thousands lives cut short and many more carrying physical and emotional wounds they likely never fully recovered from.

[@Andrew-yl7lm]

​@@tokul76But they weren't all mercenaries speaking 10+ different languages somehow efficiently fighting, communicating and staying loyal.

[@thedandyzebra]

@@tokul76 you are overlooking many things such as him being outnumbered over 2:1, and his enemy was Rome, not a bunch of smaller states like the Mongols mostly faced

[@tokul76]

Looks like "Hannibal ad portas" means same thing in Latin and Italian. Suspected that in Lindy's world Italian mothers switch to Latin when stressed. By 220 BCE Romans were encroaching on Spain and Barca's silver mines. He had plenty of reasons to go against them.

[@Statalyzer]

Romans violated the treaty. Saguntum was on Carthage's side of the line.

[@scottturner3831]

Generally 1 person's hero is another person's villian. It would greatly depend on whether you ask Carthage or Rome.

[@Robert399]

That's kinda the problem though, that we judge people by allegiance, not character, intentions and consequences.

[@willboucher5397]

A bit too simple perhaps. You could be from Carthage but think that Hannibal should be spending his money on the people and the state rather than pursuing a family vendetta...

[@Unknown-jt1jo]

@@willboucher5397 Yup. The Barcid family had many enemies in Carthage.

[@DJRockford83]

Alexander the Great, loved in the West, hated in the east and often described as having horns like a demon (probably reference to his helmet plumes)

[@max7971]

@@willboucher5397 he was a general. He spent the money Carthage politicians allocated to him, and whatever he, as a private individual, had. You can recall that after Carthage stopped funding the war Hannibal’s campaign came to an end soon after.

[@allpaths4836]

Hannibal without a doubt was the underdog when he keep on handing Rome there ass and still cant win the war and you loss one battle and it winds up with you losing the war. Your an underdog.

[@GogaBolz]

I genuinely thought, that Hannibal was not a person, but rather a graphic novel...

[@bubbagump2341]

A graphic novel that will never be finished . . .

[@DieBieneFranz]

It's a mystery to me why modern hollywood, or others in modern days, never made a movie about the hannibal and the fate of carthage and the phoenecians. This story, which really happened, is much more intense than gladiator or other "historical" hollywood movies like that imho

[@John21WoW]

don't worry, they got you covered, get ready for black hannibal pretty soon...

[@DieBieneFranz]

@@John21WoW hahaha for sure. Perfect setup for the woke ideologic world view of white roman suppressors and the african victims. For sure Hannibal won't be historically accurate to transport their narrative like in every disney movie ever in the last years. That's why I'm wondering why they didn't do it yet xd

[@alanjefferson1127]

Three words: "dumb it down."

[@thomashayward3286]

I dunno, I thought he was particularly nasty in The Silence of the Lambs…

[@georgeptolemy7260]

What happened to that comic you were doing about the punic wars? I spent over 100$ 8+ years ago and i aint got shit.

[@BlakedaBull]

I think Rome won

[@admiralyawn3106]

@@BlakedaBullbro spoilers. I haven’t gotten there yet

[@More_Row]

He’s still working on it

[@TheSparda81]

As I understand it, the script (lloyd's part) is complete. All that's left is for Mr. Chris Steineger to finish the illustration, and then publishing.

[@silver4831]

​@@TheSparda81Wasn't he finishing it years ago?

[@keithagn]

LONG time watcher, first time commenter: this is the type of topic I love to hear you discuss (history),and your views of it. It was what first drew me to your channel, and got me to subscribe. Please carry this on! Thank you! Regards from Canada 🇨🇦

[@alantheinquirer7658]

The literary hero is an ideal that very few real people live up to. This is why true heroes in fact are outstanding.

[@stormboss57]

I am glad you are still making such content Lloyd.

[@jayartstudios]

Love your videos, Lindybeige!!! Videos like these have awakened in me a new love for history like no other, please continue with the amazingly interesting and informative content!

[@Harold7308]

What an original way to address the fascinating subject of the punic wars! Who needs Gladiator 2 : were you there? What we need is a series about the second Punic war! Or a comic book indeed!

[@Lassisvulgaris]

Ah, yes. A battle of puns.....

[@SporeMurph]

Something quite wrong with those casualty numbers as a percentage of population. For the Battle of Towton, 11,000 dead out of a (actual) population of 3.3 million is 0.3%, not 1%. For the figures of the Battle of Cannae, if 60,000 is the number dead and that were 5% of the population, that would mean the population of the Roman Republic was only 1.2 million. This is almost certainly an undercount. The estimates that I've seen suggest 4 or 5 million people in Roman Italy at the time. Not to mention their other colonies. So the actual casualty rate at Cannae is probably more like 1% to 1.5%.

[@RolftheRed]

Still more accurate than any modern politician, or Newsperson - nonetheless. (grin)

[@lifeschool]

The most current estimates are around 1 million inhabitants at the height of the Roman Empire. Romans didn't even hold the whole of modern Italy back in -216. They had from Rome downwards, so perhaps 60% of modern Italy. The Romans lost 1/5th of their male population at Cannae, if we say 60-70,000. So that would be 700K inhabitants total.

[@lc1138]

​@@lifeschoolooh I didn't suspect the population to be so scarse. Which territories does it take into account into the million ? The whole empire ? Oh boy it must have been radically different to be so few on the planet.

[@NICHOLASPASIN]

​@@lifeschool 1 million in Rome alone, you must certainly mean

[@williamberne]

When you guys used the words like population and inhabitants, do you mean roman citizens? Have you counted the slaves, whose population is a few times more than the citizen?

[@marcusb4044]

Thank you a thousand times! I started watching you when your fire arrow video came out. Your my favorite KZbinr I miss the history. Again thanks!

[@DJRockford83]

Love how you mention heroes having a mountain to climb and completely avoid his trip over the Alps at the start 😂 "this is what we call in the business, foreshadowing" - Count Dankula 😂

[@Robert399]

It's a real indictment of human nature that we treat people with good stories as good people. (Edit: not a comment about Hannibal specifically. Alexander "the Great" on the other hand...)

[@auturgicflosculator2183]

I don't.

[@wookieboss2643]

Great people understand sometimes you have to do bad things for the greater good . There is no good or bad in war .

[@mycaleb8]

​@@wookieboss2643Crug answer. What " greater good"

[@auturgicflosculator2183]

@@wookieboss2643 Anyone who thinks of war as a simple tool has long since lost all perspective in the struggle for ever more-corrupting power.

[@crbielert]

Alexander the Reasonably Adequate.

[@vuurbeker030]

What happend to lindy who are you, why didn't this imposter go on an hour long tangent!( Great video thank you! )

[@thoughtsuponatime847]

I can’t find the vote comment so I’ll put it here. Yes, I would tentatively call him a hero. I generally don’t value war or generals in the ancient world. The Punic wars were an incredible waste of life. Carthage wasn’t in existential danger at the wars start so Hannibal wasn’t acting in defense. So Hannibal’s career choice doesn’t win him many points compared to a scientist, kindergarten teacher, fireman, doctor, ect. But I would still call him a hero. He seems to possess all the qualities of one, had he be put in a situation where he was needed. If my country was under threat, Hannibal is precisely the sort of man I want to help.

[@adonoghuea02]

Unless he's from the Hero region of Alexandria, he's just a sparkling good guy

[@robertschriek1353]

Hannibal is probably far too complex a subject to capture in a graphic novel.

[@edeliteedelite1961]

Is not everything?

[@younes5043]

Hannibal reminds me of Saladin. As an Arab interested in European history, I find that Europeans have a admirable ability to add honorable or chivalrous enemies to their pantheon of cultural symbols, Hannibal and Saladin come to mind in this category. I struggle to find such examples of respected enemies looking back at Arab and Islamic history. There is a lot of respect for the courage and hardiness of the crusader soldiers in the histories, but no crusader leader is really a household name. The mongols are remembered with horror but not respected or admired.

[@Andrew-yl7lm]

Any videos on KZbin you'd recommend on Saladin mate?

[@doomdrake123]

Omg, never saw the parallels, but Hannibal and Saladin are so alike in some aspects. Well, they have major difference, as Saladin won the war...

[@younes5043]

@@Andrew-yl7lm the channel 'Kings and Generals' has a nice series of videos of the second and third crusades from both perspectives. Extra History has a nice series on Saladin as well.

[@lc1138]

That's interesting ! My first instinct would be to link it to the great value our successives societies have put on the act of war. You need everything you can to make war sexy. But I'm very unsure about the status of war in the eastern world, compared to the western. Maybe it has nothing to do with it :') Maybe it is a roman thing ? We have an occurence of the 'respectable enemy' trope with Caesar's conquest of the Gauls. He emphasized how the Celts were heroic combatants, to glorify his victory against them even more. I believe it was common practice in Rome. You justify your expenses to the senate, you augment your triumph, and you pave the way for the integration of these new roman provinces. And if the roman did it, most of Europe was influenced by it. I don't have any more clue tho. I'm curious about how it goes in your culture. Are there really no such examples ?

[@greenbee6902]

Probably because the early crusader leaders weren't known for being honorable lol. The latter ones generally dont get as much focus because most people read about the first and second crusades

[@WalterLiddy]

By 'bad things', he means they do a Number 6 (Blazing Saddles fans will recall).

[@VEE727]

The irony of promoting shortform in an hour long vide 😂

[@lc1138]

@@VEE727 hahahah

[@doug9176]

I really love the Dalek and Sonic Screwdriver. Are you a fan of doctor who? Do you (like me) hate what chibnall did to it and RTD since?

[@zachstanton8945]

love to see another long lecture!

[@walker1812]

I had other plans this evening. They are ruined now as I’m going to sit here and enjoy hearing your opinion on Hannibal.

[@walsingham-xxiii]

About time. Literally and figuratively.

[@Peter-oh3hc]

Thanks!

[@Bauke1234]

We are back with the hour long history lessons! I really missed those! With the risk of sounding like a spoiled brat: If I might be so bold and suggest to maybe also discuss Zama at some point (besides the one on if it happened). Thanks for the vid Lloyd, that will get me through monday.

[@biturboism]

Context: this was filmed during the height of summer in UK. How come you still wear a wool sweater, Lindy? 🤣

[@Angrypolack]

Guy steals kickstarter money promising a book on Hannibal, and never delivers. Now makes a video on him. Balsy.

[@walker1812]

@@Angrypolack laughs in GRRM. #patience

[@chazaktyler]

This is the only chanel for which I always 'look forward' to the sponsor section and I am never disappointed.

[@MrMRmik]

Love your hour long history lecture videos, Lindy. Great stuff.

[@TomasFunes-rt8rd]

THANK YOU for weaning yourself off the habit of only making videos interviewing soldiers of fortune returned from Ukraine ! I can return to enjoying the Lindybeige channel again, yaaaayyyy !!!!

[@madchillaxin8505]

Nothing better than an Lindy story

[@geordiejones5618]

What's impressive about both Hannibal and Napoleon is that they're held up to the same heights as figures like Cyrus, Alexander, Ashoka, Qin Shi Huang, Caesar, Auralien, Theodoric, Khalid, Charlesmagne, Saladin, Ghengis, Nobunaga, etc despite ending their careers in failure. Alexander especially had the most going for him in terms of his father setting him up for total success, but his tactical and strategic brilliance are undeniable. His wasn't just Phillip II's privileged son, he was exceptional and he achieved his heights with a clear head start. Why are we so willing to accept the clearly biased sources in favor of Alexander and Caesar but dismiss similarly biased sources of other national heroes?

[@roydonovan9063]

Brilliant Lloyd, back to the kind of video that made you so well loved. Keep 'em coming.

[@DarkrarLetsPlay]

But what even is "honourable" in the modern world? I can empathize much more with the traditional meaning of the word than whatever modern people understand it to mean.

[@hoegild1]

Great to have Lindy back! He has made far too few "Talking about history to the camera" videos this year.

[@TheRealInscrutable]

Missing "vote here" (message 2 of 2) NOT A HERO. Like for not a hero.

[@randarcher8599]

Lindybiege been the goat for 10 years

[@NelsonZAPTM]

I've got pet goats, so I'm not sure that is a compliment. Have you got any idea what a Billy does to attract the girls?

[@patrickholt2270]

I feel like Carthage's cause was nobler than Rome's. Carthage was a colonial project, but it wasn't an imperialist project in the same way that Rome was. They had entirely different modes of production I think (yes that's Marx's term, yes he was right about most things, get over it), but also completely different antecedents they revered culturally. Rome revered the barbarian past of the Latinii. They prized warlikeness and brutality as cultural values. They wanted to keep Rome warlike and violent as a means of strength and national security, but also just because. They modelled the Roman Republic on Sparta more than Athens, hence the dual Consulship, modelled on the Spartan dual monarchy. The Republic was proudly an Oligarchy, in the Greeks's categories, not a Democracy like Athens had begun as and continued to claim to be long after it had actually been subverted by its richer families through the practice of Sophistry - PR and Spin Doctoring in modern terms, to get ahead within the Athenian Assembly regardless of the rights and wrongs of anything or who had the better character or talent, as Socrates got sentenced to death for exposing. The Senate of Rome was the same way with the Optimate families, but with more political violence, and the Oligarchic nature of it was explicit instead of disavowed - only aristocrats could stand for election to the Senate. So the Roman Republic was militarist and expansionist from the beginning. Carthage on the other hand was a trading colony of another city: Tyre in Phoenicia (Lebanon). Carthage's purpose was to police the maritime trade in the central Mediterranean, and make sure that Iberian silver made it safely across the Mediterranean to Tyre to pay off the tribute that Tyre had to pay the Assyrians. They were about trade, not seizing land and expanding their population to produce more soldiers to conquer more land with in a vicious cycle like Rome's. You could almost say they were bourgeois, whereas the Roman ruling class were unproductive landowning aristocrats who lived on rent. Carthage's peers (who all lived in equal sized, if high-tech and luxurious, houses) were merchant capitalists, with only a fraction of them running farmland as landowners. That was one of the reasons that Carthage was so often betrayed by its allies and the colonies it had founded the same way it was founded. They were not conquered subjects like Rome's provincial allies. Rome's allies had been through the process of military defeat and brutal subjugation, that was then relaxed in return for loyalty and taxes. They were too traumatised and afraid of Rome's revenge to switch sides, no matter how successful Hannibal was. They knew that the Carthaginians couldn't be relied on to provide a permanent garrison to protect them like Rome did, because they were about trade, not territorial expansionism, and were a naval power, not a populous nation with a big army. Culturally the Punics were an ancient civilisation, preserving the learning and sophisticated agriculture and trade networks of the Eastern Mediterranean dating back to before the Bronze Age Collapse. They were Semites who had invented the first alphabet that replaced Cuneiform for record-keeping. As the other civilisations of the central and eastern Mediterranean collapsed after the Sea Peoples came through sacking all the great trading cities until they were defeated in Egypt, they were the first to recover, in the Levantine ports where some of the Sea Peoples had conquered, settled and been assimilated into the native Semitic, Aramaic culture instead of just raiding and moving on, and had preserved the written culture and technology, and then had gone on to create coastal colonies (towns) all over North Africa and the Mediterranean coastline, wherever the Greeks didn't get there first. Rome was relatively new, only founded in the 8th century BC, and frankly pretty backward culturally and technologically, until much later after having conquered peoples like the Carthaginians and the Greeks who were more advanced and civilised than they were. So yeah, it would have been better for everyone else in the western and central Mediterranean if Carthage had won instead of Rome, in terms of freedom, independence and the economy, and because the cost of Roman conquest was mass destruction and mass enslavement, whereas those under Carthaginian hegemony were trade partners and diplomatically respected instead of totally subject to direct rule from Rome. Carthage directed the trade, protected by its navy, and made sure to make the greater profits, but all of their allies, colonies and trade partners profited on the maritime trade also, and didn't lose their independence. If I'm right, and this was what Hannibal was fighting for, and it was Roman militarism and imperialism he had been taught to hate, then his cause was just, and it was the bad guys who won, and surely being on the right side is part of what makes a hero.

[@Ghostrex101]

Great insight 👍🏻

[@patrickholt2270]

@@Ghostrex101 Thank you!

[@firingallcylinders2949]

Welp save to watch later, I know what I'm listening to at work tomorrow

[@thedude9024]

Lindy, shut your mouth and finish the in sesrch of hannibal project. 8-9 years is unacceptable for a kickstarter.

[@BlakedaBull]

I bet you suddenly had to do a bunch of Hannibal research ……… Jk

[@chriswarburtonbrown1566]

Lloyd if you say 'The graphic novel is almost finished!' once more I shall scream. Your teaser campaign is as long as Hannibals military campaign. Give us the date! Even better, give us the book!

[@AdalbertusPugni]

I'd say he accomplished some heroic deeds even of he wasn't too heroic himself.

[@Robert399]

I feel almost the opposite. It seems like he was a decent person (at least he doesn't seem to have been arrogant, greedy or spiteful) but he didn't really fight *for* anything we'd consider good today.

[@leonardomarquesbellini]

​@@Robert399I'd question how someone willing to crush countless others for wealth and power wouldn't be greedy.

[@Robert399]

@@leonardomarquesbellini He was already extremely wealthy when he was born and didn't gain any more through the war, in fact he expended a huge amount of money. In terms of power, idk. I suppose if he'd won he would've become more powerful but only through reputation and alliances. It doesn't seem like he wanted to conquer the lands he was fighting in (which almost any ruler would).

[@Potatoes85858]

I know this might not be the right place to ask, but didn't know where else to try. If or when the novel does come out, will we be able to buy more copies after release? I'd like to buy a few more as gifts beyond the one I originally pledged for, but I'm sure you'll understand my reluctance to pledge more money before the final product is out. Assuming of course we get a physical edition, even if it takes some additional cost from us -- as I'm aware with rising printing/shipping costs in the past years we might only get a digital version in the end -- which I'd still be happy with, but I'd love to be able to potentially pay extra for some physical editions for gifts.

[@darrinrebagliati5365]

What's the difference between Leon and Bond? The simple answer is: who they work for. They both apply the same skillset. As far as hero or villain. It depends on point of view. To the soldiers he paid and kept alive for 15yrs behind enemy lines, he was definitely a hero. Maybe not to their wives but... Yet the Romans wouldn't have seen him as a hero, he was definitely a villain to them. And still is. The same goes for the Romans, Gauls, Celts, Britons. Hero and villain are relative terms that cannot be properly considered from only a backwards view. To me he was an excellent leader and the progenitor of modern guerrilla warfare, but since I've never met him (not likely to either, unless I get the time machine working!!) I couldn't say if he was a hero or a villain. The Italians in my family tree may think him a villain, but may also view him as a hero for taking on Rome as we were rebels from the start. As may the Germans, Gauls and Bretons there too!

[@lc1138]

True. The questions asked in the video are more interesting than the answers in yes or no. I'm glad your family are rebels. Punk never die. Good luck with current days Italia :/ And I got recently quite traumatized by realizing the extent of brutality which got into the conquest of Gauls. It's impressive how the roman empire still lives on today in our modern western states.

[@darrinrebagliati5365]

@@lc1138 I'm Canadian, never been anywhere else but my name was created when we left Rome when Constantine was changing religions and writing the bible. It means 'The Rebellious Ones' now we're on all continents as the worlds largest gypsy clan.

[@lc1138]

@@darrinrebagliati5365 Wow. Congrats for the dispersion ! Do you manage to keep in touch with each other ?

[@darrinrebagliati5365]

@@lc1138 not really but my dad has gone to Italy and talked to others of our name! My line came here late 1800s, so instant communication wasn't a thing. And we started as a group of people 'fleeing taxes' and then were reabsorbed. When we did DNA testing, we came back as German. From where Germany and Italy meet. But if you look, there's a hospital with my last name on it in Rio.

[@lc1138]

@@darrinrebagliati5365 That's a very interesting story and I'm sure it would make for a real good book :D Thank you for sharing, mate. Fare well !

[@jonpon0182]

I think you misrepresent the term "achieve". He achieved the maximum with what he had but lacked proper support, which really is not on him. He did what army should, which is kill, plunder and win battles. He punched way above his head taking in consideration the resources he had. If Carthage was better run politically, he might have looked different

[@oldbmstuff]

'What's the alternative" is a pretty hilarious defense of the British rule in India, I must say. I imagine a murderer on trial saying "Well, yes, I might have killed that chap, but let's face it, he was really quite rude to everyone and if I hadn't killed him, someone else would have. And even if no one would have killed him, he likely would have had quite a poor life. So I ask; what's the alternative?" We'll never know what the alternative to British rule in india was, but the reality is that the British DID rule in India, and committed many crimes in doing so, even ones that were considered unacceptable by contemporary British commentators, most of whom were not even opposed to imperialism and colonialism! Bit of a silly thing to say, really.

[@MrSuperpiff4]

Hannibal climbed the alps without a Kickstarter campaign... most impressive

[@jacksonlynch1731]

Oh man I hope he posts a version of this with audio

[@bartsanders1553]

That's what you get for turning on notifications.

[@myparceltape1169]

I've had a few videos which start silent. I restart and it works.

[@stephenkayser3147]

Thank you Lindybeige for this marvelous effort. At your best. Please do more of these.

[@Grz349]

54:08 On Rome being the baddies, I wonder how much a need to replace the working age men lost in the War against Hannibal pushed Rome to increase their number of slaves?

[@graveperil2169]

do they have skulls on their uniforms?

[@dogwalker666]

Of course Rome were the baddies ask Asterix and Obelix, 😂

[@skyleonidas9270]

Spain is Hispania, there is no Spain before the roman conquest, at least not in the same way as after which is a way more simmilar to today than was before to after

[@elisabettamacghille4623]

As Italian I say this: never underestimate the subtle and twisted brain of Italian people, we managed to survive decently on this peninsula surrounded by an ancient sea we insist to call "ours", since immemorial ages. That is, we have developed (perhaps by stealing it from our neighboring Greeks) a discreet art of living, what the French call savoir faire, which has taught us the concept that the more illustrious and powerful your enemy is, the greater the merit of having defeated him, that is the reason for which in Italy you can find many great scholars absolutely in love with Hannibal Barca and his glorious exploits. So yeah, Hannibal was a hero, a real damn hero, the best. A side note as devote Ligurian follower from Janua: please consider that the name of the land North of Tuscany was/is Gallia Cisalpina and this means that we, the Cisalpine Gauls & the Ligurians I mean, were with Hannibal Barca at Trebbia river, at Cannae and Trasimeno lake! So we might even say that in these lands, the Esperia marshes I mean, actually we have a lot of very good "political" reasons to confirm that yeah actually Hannibal was really a .. cough! cough! .. nothing! Sorry! Please forgive me! .. ROMA VICTRIX!

[@lukasg4807]

What's really astonishing is how you guys went so long on that peninsula while being such abysmal sailors. It's always such a weird disconnect that Rome could be so powerful yet be defeated at the prospect of having to cross the English channel without losing half your men 😂.

[@IAmCaligvla]

@@lukasg4807 You don't even need to go that far, just look at the pathetic display of the Romans during the first Punic war.

[@elisabettamacghille4623]

@@lukasg4807 Yeah, you are right, bad sailors indeed, but .. in the end those damn little men, those bad sailors with their Montefortino helmets and those funny short swords called gladii, managed to cross the fucking channel and even with half the men they got the land, the land of the Britons I mean, but they did not stop, they got the land of the Transalpine Gauls, as the lands of the Greeks, and Africa, and Asia and they got the men as slaves, they got their women, they got their children, they got every damn thing they were able to put their hands on, and they did this century after century up to 476 AD, but all in all you know what actually impresses me the most? This: they managed to present this incredible mass murder, this robbery on tri-continental scale, this legalized armed robbery with no limits, this continued rape of men and entire civilizations lasted almost a millennium as the greatest achievement of European history! And this is the true Roman masterpiece, maybe a criminal one, but nevertheless a damn masterpiece.

[@lagarttemido]

@@elisabettamacghille4623 Their actual masterpiece was God's divine providence to lay the grounds for the spread of the gospel. Without Rome and Italians, without the French, the Spanish and the Portuguese, the world would be completely different.

[@More_Row]

Literally the easiest climate on earth in the past to survive and thrive on. (Italy-Mediterranean)

[@nevermindmeijustinjectedaw9988]

your whole part about selflessness is borderline evil if you truly believe people shouldnt strive to do great things just for themselves like sports. by that logic getting children wouldnt be selfless. imagine telling your wife that you didnt marry her for a selfish reason, she doesnt have that kind of effect on you. you selfLESSly married her because she looked like she's really desperate for a partner. about duty: talk about duty to german wehrmacht vets. duty is just as evil as selflessness

[@macrosense]

You wou would be hard pressed to explain to many Americans that Hannibal was not a Muslim. Or that British people are not Roman.

[@Huron375]

Oh, come on man! Thats not true. Don't be a silly goose :(

[@JG-ff5rn]

Weird Video...I have never heard anybody say that hannibal was a hero. His nation is gone, his people are gone as well since roman times. Nobody needs a figure like him to be heroic. Great statesman, military genius yes, but apart from historians not many men even know him nowadays. You are burning straw with this video, go and milk something else

[@mathewritchie]

He also created such hatred that Rome went back later to crush Carthage.

[@P-Mouse]

in fairness, Rome kinda was in the crushing business. Take Corinth or any number of other states

[@TheRealInscrutable]

I'd say that he created fear in Rome.

[@johnathandoe9346]

If you traumatize your enemy so bad , that 2 thousand years later they still cry you're name, then you're awesome.

[@mhammer3186]

If your fears are so great that 2 thousand years later people are still studying your tactics and strategies, then I’d qualify that person as a hero.

[@auturgicflosculator2183]

...because trauma is desired?

[@neshirst-ashuach1881]

If its the trauma of my foes then yes.

[@auturgicflosculator2183]

@@neshirst-ashuach1881Too busy fighting to see that fighting creates more fighting. Sorry to hear that.

[@neshirst-ashuach1881]

@@auturgicflosculator2183 Could you please try being more condescending? I feel like their are still depths unplumbed. As to the meat of your argument: Often, fighting _prevents_ more fighting, or at least prevents something far worse. Let the Vikings reave and raid your village, probably (word youtube doesnt like) a few people just for the fun of it, and they'll be back next season for more - why would they ever stop? Its profitable and safe. Fight them off, or even just inflict enough casulties to make it not worth the effort to raid you, and they'll leave to find easier targets. Or how about you go ask the Moriori people how their pacisifism worked out when the Mauri came? Oh wait, you cant. Because they're all dead. "The good looking young women were enslaved, all others were (guess) and eaten" is pretty much the one sentence summary of how pacisifism worked out for them, and an important reminder that sometimes, violence is the only sane choice.

[@johnbradshaw5900]

One of the greatest military commanders in history, Cannae has been a millstone around the neck of those who followed by setting the template for a battle of annihilation and text book application of a double envelopment. Not sure that makes him a hero though.

[@alexanderhowarth6460]

Where's the fucking comic, Lloyd?

[@hollin220]

There are a lot of similarities to the arguments I make to people who view Napoleon as a hero. It’s astounding to hear so many fellow history lovers celebrate mass death and destruction. Great video 🍻