Was it a Good Death? | FFXIV Endwalker MSQ

[@limontree476]

Best part about the trial duty support is there is a moment when Estinien shouts out to Alphinaud to watch out, to which he responds with confusion because he's already in a safe spot.... it was Alisaei that was in the wrong spot. Estinien was actually talking to her.

[@MizukiTheUnderPro]

Asahi showing up, telling everyone to fuck themselves and dragging Amon to gigahell is one of my favorite moments in Endwalker. Talk about a character who was such a tool to greater powers throughout the story getting one last laugh.

[@Eruvadhril]

And for those of us who love to dunk on Asahi, we can still be content with the fact that, even now, Zenos has zero clue who Asahi was.

[@duncanmacleod6274]

I'd compare it to Wormtongue stabbing Saruman in the end of the LOTR books.

[@k2k4]

He was so true to his character. Basically he only ever wanted to simp for his prince so Fandaniel manipulating him was the biggest insult imaginable.

[@devildante9]

He was such a fun character to hate, I loved him

[@dec222]

That is a fantastic way to look at it, lol. Thank you for this.

[@rabid_si]

Another thing I like about Venat/Hydaelyn's "end" is that back in her time, we are introduced to the idea that she is something of an outlier, and viewed as strange, for not voluntarily returning to the star once she relinquishes her seat as Azem, but through the lens of her arc in its entirety she's just operating on some vague feeling that there is still something left to do and that here, at the end, she's very much the same as the rest of them. Her job is finally done and she goes willingly like all the rest.

[@specialnewb9821]

And though the game might suggest otherwise in some respects I think that is an ideal to aim for. I compare it to Tolkien where men terrified of death and clinging to life by their finger tips is a corruption and voluntarily relinquishing your life when its time is noble and a show of fairh in God.

[@Tenkuu-san]

Not a vague feeling. It's that people still need her, and she also mentions just before the dungeon being dissatisfied with the world's established order. To her, she simply hadn't done enough for her people to feel comfortable with leaving the world as it was.

[@meltheredcap6307]

15:26 If you'd fought Rhitatyn ("Twoshields") since the rework, you'd understand why he's in the Aitiascope. He HATES the WoL. He loathes us because he was a genuinely good commander to his men, who we killed despite him trying to send them away to save them, and because we are the reason he failed in his duty to Gaius. If intense emotion is what makes a memory stick around long enough and then be drawn to us to coalesce into an enemy, Rhitatyn's memory of us qualifies in SPADES.

[@Bokugo1]

The duty support on Mothercrystal was amazing. I actually wiped because i had a couple vuln stacks and Alisaie got the stack marker. While the other scions tan over to her to protect her, Ali decided she had better chances backflipping into me making us the only 2 taking the stack. Then seeing her and Estinien fight over the limit break, Yshtola dodging before the floor markers pop up because she has wizard eyes, they did a great job putting personality in their AI. Its also the reason I never take the twins together on a support. Alphi will literally ignore you dying if his sister is also dying lol.

[@Maeve_Rose]

the cool thing: Alisae will always try and pop limit break when its available. she also tends to get in the right place for mechanics at the last possible second. Estinien is more cautious than Alisae, but will pull LB3 if possible. Yshtola never misses a mechanic, and makes comment on it in the Mothercrystal fight, that she can see the aether moving. G'raha will flub a mechanic exactly ONCE, and then never messes the same mechanic up again. Thancred will not use some gunbreaker abilities unless he is in a party with a magic user (Yshtola or Alisae) who can give him aether. Uriangier will always rez and heal Thancred before anyone else. Alphinaud will let you die if his sister went down.

[@Howlflame]

Best part of Colin Ryan finding that Estinien fanart? He showed it to Robert Vernon, Estinien's VA XD

[@SPAMCAN29]

Wish I could give this multiple updoots!

[@ChrisMorray]

Awww, you caught the "To live is to suffer" motifs from Amon and from Hydaelyn, but there's another one. Matsya's mantras when he's running to save the child: "To live is to suffer, to drink of calamity."

[@Heldemon]

Ya, wouldn't surprise me if Hydaelyn passed that down through their gods or something to help prepare them for the final days. I'm not sure I caught it in my playthrough, only once I was watching others go through it.

[@ItsMiddie]

@@Heldemon I don't have any real sources to back this up, but I'd wager that most religions on the Source and the shards are based on the sundering itself and all that preceded it. We have some info now on the Twelve (not going to spoil anything here), but there are plenty of religions around the world that seem to draw on pre-Sundering inspirations.

[@Sketchblopp]

@@HeldemonWell, that mantra is basically "Answers" in C Moll, metaphorically speaking. :D

[@Tenkuu-san]

From the first time I heard the Thavnairians speaking about the words of their deities, I thought for sure that this sounded like something that Hydaelyn would say based on our earlier encounter with her in Labyrinthos. I'm fairly certain that their gods are inspired by their ancestors' memory of having met her in some way.

[@Tenkuu-san]

@@ItsMiddie You sort of have a source: Emet-Selch's account in the Ravel of the sundering and the state of people's memories after it. They had vague recollections of the sundering, resulting in the murals we see in the Ravel.

[@clangauss4155]

Teasing for stalling is funny and all, but y'all haven't disappointed me with your clip. Any time we take a detour it's because we're seeking a specific tone or a break, and you put so much love and care into analyzing and breaking down the side content like Alliance raids that there's clearly no time wasted. Now that we're staring down the barrel of the end, I look forward to the completed Walls of Dungeons and Trials. May you ever walk in the light of the crystal.

[@ForeverUnmotivated]

One thing I've always liked about that final scene with Amon is that, depending on what you think Asahi means by "oblivion", he might just be accidentally giving Amon exactly what he needs by dragging him down into it. If part of the purpose of the Lifestream is to scrub people clean of their traumas and suffering so that they can let go and be born anew, then Hermes couldn't ever fully do that. Amon spends the whole scene talking about how Hermes accidentally scarred his own soul when he used Kairos to erase his memories, and now he can't move on from them even across different reincarnations. They all just keep asking the same questions and struggling with the same answers. So when Asahi appears out of nowhere and announces that he's going to drag Amon down "into oblivion" and that his search has to "start again", I've always interpreted that as Asahi forcing the two of them down into the deepest part of the Lifestream, where the harsh currents will quickly scrub their souls clean of any last vestiges of their former selves. Presumably, this would include the memories of Elpis that Kairos accidentally burn into Hermes' soul, allowing him to finally begin the process of moving on when he starts completely from scratch in his next life. I know a lot of people read this scene as Asahi dragging Amon down to Super Hell to suffer for eternity, and for a lot of people that is genuinely the fate they feel they deserve, but I've always liked this interpretation because it gives that last little bit of closure to Hermes.

[@Final.Family]

Me and my Hubby have had this discussion and came to the same possible conclusion! I like how this is a possible interpretation of the scene b/c it gives a resolution that is both very final, but also somehow hopeful that peace might come to even the most troubled of souls. In any case, i enjoyed your comment and explanation, here's my updoot lol.

[@TheoVorster]

Yeah, I don't think the writers are trying to communicate Amon/Hermes' soul is being sent to "super-hell" (as other than the hell spirits/souls/memories who refuse to pass on make for themselves, the lore of FFXIV basically establishes the aetherial sea/lifestream doesn't contain a heaven or hell), but that he is being forced back into the cycle of reincarnation (though whether Amon will be scrubbed/cleansed of Hermes' seared Kairos memories I am less sure about) to start his search all over again. Essentially Amon/Hermes will be forced to remain in the cycle of Saṃsāra (the concept from dharmic religions which Endwalker drew on many of its themes from).

[@alexf2316]

I agree. I don't remember there every being even a mention of a hell-like place in this world. It seemed to me that everyone--hero or villain--goes to the lifestream where they see the truth of their lives clearly before their souls are blank-slated to be reborn.

[@Poldovico]

​@@alexf2316there is a notion of the Heavens and the Hells, but they seem to be more elemental stuff than anything to do with an afterlife.

[@ChrisMajors]

I listened to this three straight times and then turned captions on. Did Garrett actually slip "Erenville is a generous lover" into casual conversation and then not elaborate on that concept AT ALL? (I mean, he's not wrong, but COME ON)

[@Kekira]

He absolutely did

[@Alissandre_Iskander]

I cackled.

[@Heldemon]

Spoilers if you pick the 3rd dialogue option at the end of the dungeon when talking to Hermes. Since Kyle mentioned not being done with Hermes story. Or you could look at the cutscene in the end yourself if you really wish to see it in game yourself. If you pick: Next time, we will find the answer together. Hermes replies: Even here, even now. You have every right to hate me. For the fool I was, for the monster I became. But I will not beg forgiveness. The tales of Hermes--The man who knew so much, yet understood so little--ends here.

[@Reinshark]

"This time next week we will have seen credits on Endwalker." That's an awful lot of confidence that your Thursday night stream won't last 17 hours...

[@keithfilibeck2390]

they'll never make it, they take 2 hours to start questing each time now.

[@Reinshark]

@@keithfilibeck2390 They intentionally wait an hour at the start of each stream to chat with fans and read supers, but I expect they'll get to things a bit more quickly next week. I was just making a tongue-in-cheek joke above.

[@Heldemon]

@@Reinshark Well, they are doing what I assume is up to just before going to the last zone on tuesday. So Z6 in one stream, though long for them is certainly possible.

[@moira4707]

​@@keithfilibeck2390 They've taken an hour to get going since the end of StB, jesus you grumps nothing even changed

[@wb3159]

@@keithfilibeck239045 minutes of game stretching over like 3 hours

[@DarkKnightofAnime]

To be fair I don’t think Hermes ever learned any lessons to begin with seeing how he was trapped in his own head with his mental breakdown, so defeating him in Aitiascope is the first time we truly drill the lesson into him

[@keithfilibeck2390]

nah, the crux of the character is that he desperately wanted to be wrong, but saw no evidence that he was, and so he embraced it, in his final moments as a conscience being, he once again reverts to wanting to be wrong, his lie that he's Amon and not Hermes, which is the representation of being nihilistic vs hopeful, is laid bare.

[@DarkKnightofAnime]

@@keithfilibeck2390my comment is kinda half joking around

[@seekittycat]

How many times must we teach you this lesson old man?! Amon/Hermes: /gremlin noises

[@keithfilibeck2390]

@@seekittycat an infinite amount, as he is the herald of despair, hence the plot lol, "he" must be defeated every day, forever.

[@yacket]

Hermes/Amon is depression incarnate.

[@MrDfrose]

The story of Hermes, who knew so much, yet understood so little, ends here.

[@cnkclark]

*Stars Long Dead plays sadly*

[@paiz3505]

To me, doubting Venat is "necessary" in your enjoyment of Endwalker. If you did actually doubted her, your faith in her is renewed as you meet her again (and for the first time). It is akin to doubting your parent for what they did while you were a child and then finding out why, understanding and relating to them as you grow up.

[@EionBlue]

I like the fake offence of "how could you doubt her!?" bit the community sorta adopted, because it kinda implies that yeah, everyone doubts her, no duh.

[@TheIvoryDingo]

As someone who genuinely didn't doubt Hydaelyn, I don't really agree with that assessment.

[@TarossBlackburn]

I'll admit it. I was in the 'what if we ARE tempered?' camp for a while ever since somewhere around Stormblood.

[@RidleyUwO]

I never once doubted her. Try as the game might’ve, it never shook my belief in her. And to learn that I was right to have faith in her, it gives me an immense sense of smugness.

[@lsschwartz]

The game absolutely puts that doubt in your head, which makes this part of the story hit harder.

[@draigonEx]

The ability that the developers have shown to get us to care about a character so quickly will never fail to impress me. It's one of the things I have loved and look forward to in this game.

[@lsschwartz]

Like seeing the majority of us go from not liking Alphie to really enjoy seeing his growth, and how Ardbert goes from annoying villain to best buds?

[@draigonEx]

@@lsschwartz Those are solid long-term character investments. Venat was a vague and mostly distant character who we only really got half a zone to get to know, and while I know there are haters, by and large we love her by her end. Tesleen is another meet, like and now they're gone in fairly quick playtime.

[@Churee]

It's physically impossible for me not to tear up at Venat's farewell. Flow is cheating.

[@Keira_Blackstone]

I've grown resilient at this point, but it was a good 6-9 months before i could listen to Flow without crying.

[@psymar]

Louisoix becoming Phoenix isn't the only other primalization, there's also Ysayle/Iceheart becoming Shiva, Yotsuyu becoming Tsukuyomi, Ryne becoming Edenraids!Shiva, and arguably Elidibus serving as the "heart" of Zodiark although apparently he was able to withdraw while Zodiark remained alive? So I'm not sure if that was the same thing. It occurs to me, however, that given Elidibus was essentially the "little brother" of the Convocation, that may have been a factor in how fiercely Emet fought. (Well that and Hythlodaeus being among those sacrificed.)

[@bangormc3rd562]

I think the writers made a deliberate parallel between two of the parent figures in this expansion. Fourchenault, who tried to shield his children from all danger, and nearly lost them because of it. Hydaelyn, who forced her children to face the danger, so that they could grow stronger, and earned their love because of it.

[@FF-tp7qs]

What about Moenbryda's parents? Btw theres a lalafell who hangs around in Old Sharlayan that is actually Papalymo's father

[@ReksNuadiah]

​@@FF-tp7qs You didn't have to remind me of those, they still hurt But yes they're there too, just less relevant to _you_ as immediately.

[@truthless4720]

One point of interest that I feel like you didn't touch upon is Venat's duty. They made a pretty big deal about Venat not returning to the star when she relinquished her post as Azem - how unusual it was, etc. She herself, when you travel with her, commented on the fact as well - that as long as the people she loved so much still needed her, she couldn't simply abandon them. "Perhaps my future self is still waiting for it... that moment when she can let go, safe in the knowledge that mankind will find its own way." Her duty complete, she finally did, and our final words to her are just that... "We will find our way, Venat".

[@Ephlanuist]

So this is insane. The quest that talks about the changes to the aetherial sea wrought by your (comparatively) recent exploits is the level 80-90 FSH quest in the Studium. So most people will never see it

[@Kassilphe]

really? that's the only studium questline I haven't fnished yet. I should get on that. Thanks for etting me know

[@brylldelfin2449]

Man I can't believe the journey I had watching you guys. I am so glad I clicked the recommendation 2 years ago. Here's to more to come!

[@keithfilibeck2390]

I think the many clashes with Hermes/Fandaniel/Amon is a great touch, he's the ultimate torchbearer for Despair, and since the very start of ARR, the Warrior of Light has been the hopebringer, each villain a bringer of Despair, in their own words, and each time defeated, and now here is the ultimate variant on it, so naturally we fight him in many forms he can take.

[@Keira_Blackstone]

he's ultimately the main catalyst of the story. it's told out of order for obvious reasons, but i do think talking to him in the underworld to tie it all together was an important end to his story.

[@ShakalDraconis]

The way I took the golden spirits in the Aitiascope (Papalymo, Moenbryda, Minfilia, etc) is that they ARE the souls of our departed friends, but they have not yet faded and been washed clean, as like Amon and Asahi they haven't yet allowed themselves to move on. Not out of the anger or regret that we see from the purple spirits, but out of concern for their friends, companions, and loved ones. They have to see how this all plays out, before they can go peacefully onto their rest, cleansing, and eventual rebirth.

[@deathnote136]

Love Kyle realizing the direct comparison between Hermes and Zenos since Ishikawa stated directly at the Vegas Fanfest that was her intention

[@iantaakalla8180]

Such emotional devastation

[@EdBurke37]

I think bringing Amon back up serves to highlight the big theme of Endealker: how one handles meaninglessness and despair. Everyone is confronted with the universal truth of an existence without meaning and responds to it differently. Amon/Hermes/Fandaniele chooses obliteration, if nothing matters then existence is without meaning she should be thrown away. It's a destructive nihilism. Zenos instead choose to take the meaninglessness of life as an excuse to indulge his base desire for bloodshed. He embraced hedonistic nihilism. The Scions/our character look at the inherent meaninglessness of existence and defiantly declare "of the is no meaning then we will make our own. We will make GOOD". We embrace positive nihilism, the freedom to make our own meaning and purpose.

[@providencebreaker1558]

People also have to remember there are 6 more Hermes shards out there that may or may not be twisted into Amon-like individuals due in part to remembering the events of ktisis hyperboreia.

[@LeeSci]

Someone else finally mentioned how absolutely fantastic Joanna Roth’s VA work was in capturing the essence of Venat. She manages a perfect blend of passionate, heroic and motherly in all her lines, which just represents everything wonderful about Venat.

[@KironX1]

OMG the fact that Kyle brings up the Abhorsen books! I thought I was the only one who has read them. They’re so good. I wish they’d make an adaptation somewhere…

[@Amovetv]

They would never get the bells right in a film, but I would love to see them try!

[@fishsan4508]

The Abhorsen world is one of my favorites! You're not alone in appreciating them. I, too.. wish we could get more of it in adaptations but with how most adaptations go I don't even want them to try. I just feel like it's inevitable they'll try to make it appeal to the masses by adding more typical action and romantic drama somehow.

[@k2k4]

I think my favorite moment in this part was Alisae's cry of despair when she realized she just helped kill her God. Think of the weight of this moment. It's such fantastic storytelling.

[@tinybee7780]

This was definitely one of my favorite dungeons in the game. So many emotions, so many friends and foes along the way, and after all of that and you beat Amon you suddenly realize, "Oh, I forgot that we were supposed to talk to Hydaelyn, that's why we're here." 😄 Even though I would very much want to have the chance to talk to our departed friends, I’m glad that they didn’t go to the “now we can access the underworld anytime and talk to anybody” route and the spirits in the Aitiascope didn’t overstay their welcome. 23:23 If there’s any consolation, at least the lack of any kind presence from his sister kind of implies that she finally found peace in the afterlife way before Asahi ever did.

[@yannobzh]

What a ride (and a video)! Feels great to enjoy this game while you're in it too. FFXIV Community is BLESSED with talented people telling their stories damn

[@asberchekas]

"Hop on pop" moment.... Kyle, I love you. Never change.

[@cparle87]

18:40 I loved how you're having what could be an emotional moment with Hermes. And then Asahi shows up and all your smiles are gone. 33:25 Gotta do a correction there. Hydaelyn did not cause the Flood of Light, that was a calamity caused by the Ascians unbalancing the elements. Blaming her for the Flood is like blaming Ysayle for Coerthas being cold because she uses ice magic. 38:05 Garrett going crosseyed over the music was so good.

[@RETROtheGAMER]

Going through the dungeon with Thancred and Yshtola made me tear up. IYKYK

[@nicholaswhite7056]

Point of order: Asahi wasn't upset he got bodyjacked, he probably could not care less what happened to his corpse once he died, he was mad that Fandaniel both got more attention from Zenos than he ever could, and with that attention Asahi so craved, betrayed Zenos-Sama, an unforgivable crime in simpsahi's eyes. Thats why he was so upset, and probably had the wrath needed to drag fandaniel to Hell 2: The Legend of Curly's Gold.

[@cnkclark]

Dragged him down to Double Hell.

[@Kasaaz]

After I did Atiascope the first time, I was like, "Wait, so it's two ARR villains and then this?" And so I went back to think about what would have been better bosses, or at least more varied. I realized... We... haven't actually killed many badguys. That's... kind of it. At least as far as story relevant ones that could appear on the Source.

[@psymar]

I mean... Thordan? Yotsuyu? Nidhogg? There was room. But apparently most of the returning characters in the aitiascope were created by the lead writer of ShB/EW and killed off by other writers due to petty writers' room drama, so I can't exactly blame her for her choices.

[@Kasaaz]

I don't think it works for Primals. Both Thordan and Yotsuyu's souls are consumed by the Primal they become. Nidhogg and Dragons in general... I dunno if that's how it works for them. You could say Namedays, but... Does anyone really wanna see him again?

[@Golden122]

@@psymar I've never heard that. Can you give me a link to your source?

[@crazy13alex]

​​@psymar Why would any of them be reduced to minibosses? They were larger than life threats when you faced them. Niddhog, especially.

[@chiekokurokumo]

@@psymar Fascinating. If there's any hint in an interview or something from Ishikawa about this, can you share it with us?

[@jaesaces]

Also, I'm not sure if you guys caught this, but when you say "We will find our way, Venat" it's a direct answer to in Elpis when she said her future self is probably waiting until she knew that she could let go with the knowledge that mankind would find their own way forward.

[@AlleluiaElizabeth]

That option made me cry precisely because of that. You are basically telling her you remember what she said and that she can let go now. Her watch is ended.

[@Avaene]

You two just keep putting in more work on editing and post ❤. Also I love that you're featuring the wonderful voice actors

[@Amovetv]

LOL, I didn't even know that tweet was from Alphinaud until I started screencapping the tweet to include.

[@fredy2041]

@@Amovetv You guys failed to understand a fundamental thing of Hermes and thats why all of you asked you reach the 3rd option. This is Hermes's story. Amon literaly said it so if you both would have clicked on the 3rd option. "The story of Hermes, the man who knew so much yet understood so little, ends here"

[@serisothikos]

"The man who knew so much, yet understood so little" is one of those lines that'll stick with me forever, and you only get it if you give Hermes/Amon a kind answer in his final moment.

[@Final.Family]

3:55 - lmao! Whoever did the editing for this, nicely done haha! Much appreciation for this little mash-up

[@daysmithjr]

I didn't take so much time to cook as you guy do when I first played Endwalker, so I've never been so profound when interpreting metaphors, getting the true meaning behind specific lines (which by the way is one of the reasons I keep following you. You do it really well), but one aspect this part of the game had me thinking was the "poetry" or the "message" being told us by Endwalker's choice of trials. We always know that the .0 content is going to have 3 trials. So, taking that Endwalker was the expansion that would be closing this arch and close all these stories and deciding to go with "killing" the two most powerful entities we spent the last 10 years hearing about was beautifully designed in my opinion. And completely unexpected, I never imagined they would go in this direction. Excited to see you guys endwalking next week (ba dum tsss!). I'm on vacation from work so I'll definitely will be watching! Thanks again for this awesome video!

[@Kleowi]

If I had a nickel each time I fell in love with a FF character named Venat that orchestrated humanity's release from the rule of gods, I would have two nickels.

[@penguinninja4417]

Wait, where is the other one?

[@TheIvoryDingo]

@@penguinninja4417ff12

[@anaalvensleben789]

@@penguinninja4417 Final Fantasy 12, Venat is one of the Occuria.

[@maracaegrizzley8734]

Which isn't much, but it's strange that it's happened twice.

[@holyja_]

Kyle mentioning Abhorsen by Garth Nix wasn’t in my bingo card but HERE WE ARE

[@Drakochannojutsu]

The way Hydaelyn calls us her children also really hits. She gives everything to us so we can continue on and become great beyond what even she expected. It's a very beautiful allegory for parenthood as well for me, even as someone who doesn't have kids

[@JoshuaStingl]

Love the cooking, going to miss being able to watch it knowing where things go, but excited to see the caught up cook shows.

[@Kasaaz]

The irony about the Dorito is that it's Amano art. And before Endwalker, nothing looked exactly like Amano art... yet somehow Zodiark and Hydaelyn Trial bosses both look almost exactly like his art for them.

[@ericbright1742]

Omega stole the 1.0 Box Art for his final form. And stole your theme song.

[@cnkclark]

​@@ericbright1742I mean that tracks since it was trying to fight you as you.

[@cnkclark]

As a player of OG Final Fantasy IV (as FF II on SNES) who remembered THAT Tower of Babil, I thought the Dorito looked more like a tower rising toward the viewer with a portal dais on top.

[@providencebreaker1558]

I still think it's the coolest thing in the world that Amano's original design for magitek armor was brought to life in this game. It's still my favorite mount to this day. Having the sprite version as well in the predator just makes it all the more impressive.

[@cnkclark]

@@providencebreaker1558 Not to mention that Amano's version plays the Overworld/Terra's Theme from FFVI.

[@SkullM]

Kyle saying the word "Abhorsen" was like some sort of sleeper agent activation phrase that made me want to go back and binge a bunch of Garth Nix books. Old Kingdom, Seventh Tower, and Keys to the Kingdom were all some of my favorite books as a kid. Also the Old Kingdom audiobooks are narrated by Tim Curry?????

[@TheoVorster]

I hope you guys eventually take a look at the alternate Amon line right before he is dragged to the depths, because besides it being more emotional, it also suggests that despite all his resentment towards the identity of Hermes being forced upon him (by both the Ascians and the seared memories into his soul thanks to Kairos), Amon at the end resigns himself/accepts the identity of Hermes to an extent. Also while the imagery is similar to other media where characters are dragged down to hell, Asahi dragging Amon to the depths of Aetherial Sea isn't literally sending Amon to hell (or super-hell), in fact other than the hell spirits/souls/memories who refuse to pass on make for themselves, the lore of FFXIV basically establishes the aetherial sea/lifestream doesn't contain a heaven or hell. So Amon being dragged to the depths of the Aetherial Sea is more his souls being finally forced to be cleansed of his memories/identity to either be broken to make new souls or be directly reincarnated once again, as Asahi says, Amon's ultimate punishment is that he will have to start over and continue his search for answers in some form. Essentially Amon/Hermes will be forced to remain in the cycle of Saṃsāra (the concept from dharmic religions which Endwalker drew on many of its themes from).

[@popkhorne5372]

I knew Fourchenault's voice was familiar. So it was King Morgott, last of all Kings...

[@Keira_Blackstone]

he also voices like 20% of the side characters in FF XVI. it was kinda distracting lol.

[@drakengraves]

There is a dialogue path with Amon you can do that makes him reference that Hermes' story is at an end there with his defeat before Asahi drags him down.

[@mohidwaseem7997]

For anyone who maybe wanted to know, yes they did call her by Venat in the final dialogue.

[@jtspender]

It's worth noting that *everyone* in the Aitiascope is from ARR (except Asahi in the cutscene after)--Haurchefant is a 2.0 ARR character, Amon is from the Crystal Tower, Ilberd and Shiva are originally from ARR patch content. The choices of who you see & face make a lot more sense in the context of the Aitiascope as specifically a celebration of ARR. I totally agree with you that a lot of stuff in here was unnecessary from an Endwalker story standpoint, but I think it hit a little harder for us wizened old 2.0 players who really lived with ARR for a couple years. For all that 2.x is memed on as being slow and tedious, it was actually a revelation compared to 1.0, and the other MMO experiences that I was having at the time, so I'm happy it got its moment here. More generally, I think this an example of one of the things that I love about Endwalker--everywhere it can make the choice about being a bit more edited to be a cleaner, tighter, better work of art, or just throwing the kitchen sink in there for fanservice, it goes for the fanservice. That might be a questionable choice in other media, but here it really works. The team already proved that they can do a tightly edited story during Shadowbringers (Il Mheg notwithstanding), and there's still plenty of that in EW. But above all else they chose to make Endwalker be a celebration of the first decade of FFXIV and cram as much in as they could possibly fit. As someone who's been with the game since the beta for 1.0 it just makes me extraordinarily happy.

[@throwaway5012]

If you haven't already - the song "Flow" is worth breaking down lyrically. You remember Venat from Elpis as the WoL because of time travel, but Hydaelin gets to know many versions of you over the ages. The song Flow is Hydaelin singing to one of your many reincarnations after their death, welcoming you back to the Aetherial sea... but with the sad knowledge that you weren't *the one*. This idea that Hydaelin nurtured your growth, watched over your soul, cared for you over *millennia* is just really moving and I get all blubbery crying when I listen to it.

[@perlaescent]

“Does the walker choose the path, or the path the walker?” was the quote that kept echoing in my mind throughout this expansion and one I could picture Hydaelyn asking the WoL. Love the Abhorsen reference! It’s one of my favorite fantasy series of all time.

[@lsschwartz]

Your journey has been long, but very detailed, and it's amazing to see you two get here. You are far from done though, and I cannot wait to see what you think of EW's raids! To think of this incredible collection of videos that will be here for us to relive your time in FFXIV. Can't wait to see what other videos on other content you guys will bestow upon us!

[@Shannara360]

I wish you touched on Flow and its lyrics a bit. It's one of my favorite songs in the game and I feel like it elevates Hydalyn that much more as a motherly figure. The song itself is just really powerful and elevates this entire moment. Although, maybe you talked about it elsewhere and I just missed it.

[@midnightmiqo]

I love the adding of VAs pictures and name on screen! It's an awesome touch!

[@torashiki5646]

A little bit of lore: the Aetherial Sea is not really ''another plane''. Its a PHYSICAL part of the planet. Its like what if the center of the earth was a reincarnation prepper instead molten materials.

[@mosselyn5081]

The way Garrett feels about Asahi is exactly how I felt about Zenos after Shinryu. And yet...back that f'er came! I can't believe you guys are getting close to the end of 6.0. It's been great watching your journey.

[@krysmphoenix6010]

Something that lingered with me from the Hydaelyn Walk scene was if To Live is To Suffer, then to hope is to carry that weight and stagger to the very end. Hydaelyn walked so we could fly higher, o higher.

[@Kuripants]

holy shit Abhorsen reference....

[@KLGChaos]

Great video as always! It still amamzes me that they introduced me to a character halfway through a zone and made me care about her so much in that small time frame, that her death several hours later landed so well.

[@cloara]

I am a minute into the video and I just have to say.... I have watched all of your weekly videos since beginning of Shadowbringers, but holy shit the editing so far is freaking phenomenal. Excited to watch the rest of the video!

[@llaw5189]

1) excellent video, 2)how dare ya'll make me tear up by asking us to walk with you to the end. We shall and it was worthwhile. ❤

[@Melancholy_Scholar]

Always happy to see an Abhorsen reference!

[@nexidava]

Wow, Abhorsen is a series I haven't thought about in a long time. Good times... Interesting to see your theories, and what resonated for you. Thank you for the video!

[@lsschwartz]

I enjoyed that series a lot!

[@TheThambert]

Congratz Garret, you have discovered the mindset that most of the Zenos haters take with how you feel for Asahi (I.E. he is a bad person and should never get a good point/scene or any sorta validation)

[@AlleluiaElizabeth]

Forchenault’s VA is also Samuels from Alien Isolation, which is how I always think of him. He really does have a lovely voice. :)

[@laerwen]

Something fundamental that I'm not sure either Kyle or Garrett picked up on about Hydaelyn: she's most decidedly NOT an omnipotent being. The very point of her is that no primal is omnipotent. She chose to limit her use of the few sources of power she had to conserve them for us down the line. For a deity, she is remarkably limited in every way. And she is selfless in exactly the way someone who is both in love with her world and in the way a divine being would. It has not ever been about her, not once. It has always been about us.

[@argent32]

Saying goodbye to Venat was very hard for two reasons for me. First off, she was there since the beginning and we got to know her in Elpis even more and how she's not 'just another primal' but one who truly had mankind's best interests at heart, not to mention he being like a mother to us all. The second was remembering what she had to do with her comrades to become Hydaelyn in the first place. Zodiark was much, MUCH stronger than she was when she was formed, but within him was still the souls of those sacrificed to have him coming into being, so if he was defeated, those souls could return to the Star. For Venat and her comrades, they had to give EVERYTHING to even have a chance to match him and shatter his body and the world. The only real soul left was Venat, and even then, when she does die, all that she ever was would no longer be reborn. None of them would. She and her comrades made the true ultimate sacrifice so that we may live, and they won't get to see that future if we do succeed. And that's the part that really broke my heart.

[@sheetpostmodernist398]

I've gone over this in my head a few times, and I thought what was intended was that Venat is the only one whose soul is truly lost. Upon Zodiark's defeat, those sacrificed to him (however many times it happened) could be freed. If the mechanics of Hydaelyn's summoning were similar, I have to assume anyone sacrificed to create her would be freed in like manner. I'm not certain what's intended for Elidibus, but it seemed fairly final that Venat truly gave everything remaining of herself to carry out her plan. What you're saying does make sense though, that those sacrificed for Hydaelyn were done so in a different manner, using less people more completely to give her a chance against Zodiark. I'd not heard that explanation before, but would love to know whether that's officially written somewhere, or just an alternate fan theory.

[@argent32]

@@sheetpostmodernist398 I recall it back in Shadowbringers when we saw the archives of Venat talking to her group. Plus the Synodic Scribe I believe mentioned it in one of his lore videos.

[@sheetpostmodernist398]

@@argent32 Thanks, been planning to replay/rewatch all of those scenes, so will keep an eye out!

[@omy2597]

I'm glad that both of you have enjoyed the dungeon I like to call Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowlands

[@Mechanikatt]

I was hoping to see some speculation on dialog option 3 with defeated Amon in the Aitiascope, but with all the Hydaelyn stuff I guess time was limited :)

[@sheetpostmodernist398]

I am so stoked for the streams next week, cannot wait to see all of your cooking become the feast that is the finale. As far as Amon/Fandaniel's appearance though, I do recall him saying something to the effect of the classic Crystal Tower Amon being his favorite of all the faces he wore, so it makes sense for him to fall back into that look, rather than returning to his original form as Hermes.

[@Nyanlathotep111]

Things I wasn't expecting to remember today. Garth Nix's Sabriel series, don't think I've thought of that sense high school. Thank you Kyle for the sudden nostalgia

[@WayTooLateTV]

GREAT dang vid! Y'all know I love everything you put out, of course, but this was a wonderful piece that had some great stuff in it and it was just awesome all throughout. I'm primed and ready for Tuesday and Thursday, and I'm all Jessificated out for Friday as well. Things are GOING TO BE FANTASTIC! :D

[@patyos2]

6:25 That’s because the Final Fantasy XIV Online theme is literally everything from every Final Fantasy if it exists in a Final Fantasy game it exists in 14 universe

[@ArkodaX]

at 28:34 there's a weird lip sync with kyle's voice lmao

[@dmillz5501]

Man, I can’t believe i found Rhett and Links Ffxiv channel. That is a compliment.

[@tsbulmer]

There's a way of interpreting the Aitiascope that lets Two Shield's inclusion make sense, I feel. As the Hydaelyn/Zodiark story draws to a close, as the /ARR story/ comes to an end, we're revisiting its beginning. The most obvious way is by going to where we started the game - the aetherial sea - though we're now actually there rather than simply having a vision of it, but another way we return to the beginning is by revisiting some of our biggest now-dead foes. A "greatest hits" series of bosses would've definitely been a lot of fun, but returning to the antagonists of ARR makes a great deal of thematic sense to me.

[@MissingNo_]

Plus a thousand points for representing RANCID on the guitar in the back.

[@LamhirhAbriel]

My personal theory of why Rihtahtyn sas Arvina, aka Two Shields, showed up here is that when Endwalker released, Cape Westwind was still the 8 man "raid" and his encounter was huuuugely memed on for how underwhelming it was (at least it was when you're not at max ilvl for it, it was actually kinda rough when 2.0 was new), so they gave him a proper encounter here.

[@Keira_Blackstone]

Gotta admit the opening triggered me a bit because I straight up like Hermes better as a villain than Hades, as unpopular as that may be. Edit: And I'm triggered again when you're complaining about Rhitatyn not being interesting because I freaking love him and in my headcanon my WoL has ptsd nightmares about killing him to this day. He was a genuinely good person who had been misled by Empire propaganda, but just due to the circumstances of war, were were forced to violently beat him to death. Edit 2: and then you criticize Hermes being retread too often by comparing him to Zenos, the most overused character in the game, who's still around 2 expansions after his character arc was completed with his death. that's kind of hilarious.

[@laerwen]

I can't agree enough. Hermes was retread exactly as many times as necessary - as Zodiark, then as Hermes, then as Amon, his last incarnation before becoming Fandaniel. All are an exploration of his attachment to despair instead of hope. This is WHY he ends up in 'super hell'. Both he and Asahi are vengeful, miserable spirits who aren't ready to move on. So they stay in a hell of their own creation. Rhitatyn IS an interesting character but I think a lot of people really don't give him his due. It matters that both he and Livia were essentially victims of the Empire, the one Gaius believed had a noble purpose in conquering to 'improve' their lot somehow and make them become better people. They completed Werlyt so their shallow read on Rhitatyn is surprising to me.

[@tazersmurf4689]

Mmm the cooking is so delicious. Can't wait to watch you two go through the final zone.

[@Korynith]

16:40 Admittedly, as soon as we got the face/voice reveal for Gaius, I immediately understood why Livia was absolutely batty for him 🤣

[@Steve-YT383]

Forgot these were on Fridays like Garrett forgot Alexander❤️

[@danielj6897]

Fourchenault's VA also voices Elias from D4

[@SimplySyra]

Shout out for the Abhorsen reference. Still waiting for the Netflix adaptation that I'm trying to mentally manifest into existence. Does the walker chose the path?

[@kyoskei]

27:20 For me the story of Hydealyn was a living thing as I went through, I didn't know if I could trust her, and she made an effort not to corrupt that relationship by never stepping over the line and giving you an order. She placed her Temper telling you to "Hear feel think" to ensure you remained of free will and let you on your path. Now after the Elpis part and the long walk through time scene I genuinely wept for this lone soldier and what she endured. "All is excrutiating pain. I breath fire and torment, Birth a world of suffering to mire plague" To know what your hands will wrought and do so anyway for a fleeting HOPE. I have a real affection for her, It didn't seem like loosing her when she passed, it felt like she passed the torch and could finally... FINALLY rest, to witness the endless river of time and all the stories of 14 worlds all the while calling out her temper without end. Her torment must have been unimaginable. It's reasonable that she COULD save herself by keeping some of the power from the mother crystal but she doesn't WANT to, she doesn't want to risk reserving even that amount of power to survive and she is exhausted, she is incredibly weary and ready to pass.

[@scottstuddert9178]

I was spoiled on this fight way early, back in Heavensward or Stormblood, not from the Internet, but by the game itself when I got Hydaelyn's Triple Triad card during a random Open Tournament at Gold Saucer. Incredibly bad luck, just her humanoid picture with the Primal tag sitting in the back of my mind as I went through the entirety of Stormblood, finally getting a little payoff in the Qitana Ravel, then waiting for the shoe to drop through meeting her on the boat into Endwalker, through her hand puppeting Krile a couple times, until I *finally* got here. I also had a few interesting theories running around. Like, one or two of the primals we fight tell us there's only room for one influence in our soul and ours is already taken by Hydaelyn, so I thought maybe we were actually tempered by her (No, it's just a traveler's charm Venat came up with as Azem, seems like nearly anyone could do it, as we found with the warding scales). Later I had the thought that gee, we sure are accumulating a lot of friends willing to take a lot of risks and even die for us, and we've been noted to have significant reserves of aether, so maybe we're actually doing some tempering ourselves? This one hasn't quite been explicitly debunked, but if it was true they would have been dropping more hints about it, and certainly Lakshmi would have gone differently.

[@chiekokurokumo]

Kyle's take is where I went. There's a spectrum and Hermes and Zenos are on the far ends. WoL and Venat tend toward the middle. Reminding us of Amon is important to firming up that character and the negative choices that came out of a tragic situation (avoiding woobie trope). Asahi showing up roots the entire scene in context to Zenos. The thing about motifs is that they return in variations. This was just another strain of the same motif, this time giving Amon's final opinion as a tragic warning. I loved it, especially when Asahi showed up because for all of his annoyances, Asahi's single-minded devotion to Zenos, as obsessive and deluded as it was, gave him and his life meaning. In a way, similar to WoL and the Scions! But Asahi is a bad person. It's important to understand that even bad people form bonds... (a similar theme found in the first season of Naruto). So, my takeaway was "they are people too."

[@Taidahunter2]

The black and green steampunk you are referring to might be Diesel punk. Similar but more motors smoke and grey.

[@BalsamicThunder]

I think the reason the went with Amon is to have a post Elpis interaction with Hermes in some shape or form more than anything else. To have him talk to us again after he realizes that we have met in the past and know about Meiton and such.

[@kaleiohulee6693]

I just hope the guys are geared up for the next couple streams to go long, although I can see why since good stopping points are about to go out of fashion. Best wishes to the mods this week, /salute.

[@0019khudson]

i love the cooking videos! even after there is plenty to cook on. your forgetting yall still have a ton of post endwalker even after thursday.... and the 26 hour stream.

[@Tenkuu-san]

Forgot to mention this in my previous comment but if neither of you have yet tried replaying the cutscene with Amon after Aitiascope and choosing the third dialogue option before he disappears, I strongly recommend doing so! In both languages even.

[@ZekeRaiden]

Fun fact: "Aitiascope" means something like "instrument for viewing causes(/origins)," coming from the same root as the modern word "etiology" (or "aetiology" if you're British), which refers to the study of the causes of disease, or the way a particular disease is triggered. And with Venat/Hydaelyn: She is one of the few characters in all of fiction who truly _earn_ apotheosis. It's a genuine achievement.

[@VashimuXIV]

I already knew that we would have to eventually have to fight Venat one day, because I had heard the soundtrack prior to her encounter. But nothing could have prepared me for just how emotionally charged it was once it was said and done. I was with Garrett on not sure if I should trust her, so once she had won me over, only to then pass away, it was something that left me feeling both sad and respectful. I miss her, but she did what she needed to do.

[@benkent862]

Another great video, am genuinely curious why kyle thinks hydaelyn made the flood of light on the 1st? after you did eden its clear she didnt....

[@shizzlebizzfizz]

I am sure Graha has a very relatable aspect. I don't think I can put it into words but I am sure there is a lot of people that can find him relatable despite the actions he took seemingly being on another level. I feel like it's not necessarily meant to be read at face value but more like a mindset or a test of character when put in a situation he was in and how being steadfast in your ideals will see the results you are aiming for pull off. Could be completely off base with that but that's just my take since I never really liked him as much as the others and never put his character through a microscope to study it.

[@johnlin3959]

I feel some vindication that ya'll were just done with Amon/Fandaniel/Hermes. I think what made it worse was just how long the death/defeat monologues were. Like, every time you beat/kill him, you have to hear his voice drone on and on. I'm not even sure how long the speeches were, but the cadence of the voice made it feel infinitely longer. The cadence makes it feel like every sentence will finally be his last, and I was just constantly hoping that "finally, he's done talking" only for another sentence to start. And we have to go through it 3 times.