Was Jesus a False Prophet?

Visit www.bartehrman... to shop from Bart Ehrman’s online courses and get a special discount by using code: MJPODCAST on all courses.
Historical scholars for over a century have maintained that Jesus predicted that the end of history as we know it was to come in his own generation. Conservative Christians -- laypeople and scholars alike -- have insisted that this is a complete misportrayal of Jesus. And many people -- possibly most? -- believe that if Jesus really did preach this message, not only was he obviously wrong but also Christianity cannot possibly be true. A Jesus who was demonstrably mistaken about a central element of his preaching could not be a prophet of God, let alone the Savior of the world. In this episode we consider the issue and its implication: did Jesus proclaim the imminent end of the world? If so, can Christian faith even be possible, let alone reasonable?
Bart and Megan tackle such questions as:
-What actually is apocalypticism?
-What does it mean when we say that Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet?
-Were there other apocalyptic prophets in the ancient world, or was Jesus a one-off?
-Was there anything different about Jesus’ message compared to his prophetic peers?
-How were they viewed by the general population - were they taken seriously, or were they viewed in the same way that we may view people on a street corner with “the end is near” signs??
-If Jesus was anticipating that the Kingdom of God would be a physical reality before the end of his life, is it fair to say that he wasn’t expecting to be crucified?
-How do the writers of the gospels deal with this complication, and how do their reactions differ?
-Was Jesus, then, a false prophet?
-How did early Christian cults and sects deal with the world not ending?

[@jamesmziegler]

On my last visit to an evangelical church, I heard a political speech. It was like watching FOX news. I never went back.

[@shekina9473]

Don't go back to that church. They are doing their own thing

[@terryreynolds200]

“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.” - Barry Goldwater November 1994

[@jamesmziegler]

@@terryreynolds200 This quote surprised me because, in 1964, he was considered a conservative's conservative. What he feared largely happened, too. Today, MAGA would banish him as a RINO.

[@patrickhurley7029]

stay away from those evangelical churches in my opinion

[@HkFinn83]

Evangelicals and the republican right are joined at the hip

[@T-41]

Dr. Ehrman has an impressive knowledge of the history of ancient civilizations, culture , religions, but fortunately for us laymen he is a gifted teacher. I feel very thankful I have had the opportunity to learn so much from him.

[@hegagi839]

Yea Bart said Jesus didn't say he is God and so he couldn't be God. In that case, if Tabor said he is God, Bart would immediately worship him.

[@RadicalCaveman]

@@hegagi839 Try logic.

[@johnferris9526]

Letting go of American Evangelical Christianity was one of my best life choices.

[@AcerbusFive]

Same here john

[@Phi1618033]

It's difficult to see the benefit of leaving a cult until you've actually left the cult.

[@elizabethallen1415]

Likewise! I'm truly amazed at the overwhelming relief and joy I feel again.

[@benxvotr8170]

Repent, you rejecting the spirit.

[@AcerbusFive]

@@Phi1618033 man I could not agree more. My life has had much more meaning and purpose once my chains were broken.

[@betsywilliamsonyoga]

Yes, grading is the worst part of being a professor! However, I do love grading paper. I am not a professor anymore but I used to give my art appreciation students and assignment to discuss an artwork that they either identified with or did not identify with. They were amazing because the students would be honest and raw in their essays and I would learn so much about them as individuals. ❤

[@Moodboard39]

Boring

[@ChessemillPerezChristopher]

Excellent discussion. Much appreciated.

[@jonathanguernsey7051]

I thank you for all the hard work putting in to every episode, I think that Bart, like a lot of us have been bruised by orthodox and evangelical doctrine, but, I also think that very same doctrine has dulled his hearing in Jesus, one day I think he’ll read something that very much so will spark a new interest in the philosophy in Jesus words, not the worlds view of Christianity!! Mad respect to you and Bart.

[@davidsparks6146]

Who was writing down detailed historical information such as that other Jesus guy who got hit with a rock? Where can I get those documents? Great Podcast... You two are always a fun listen.

[@edwardmiessner6502]

Jesus ben Ananias in Josephus's _Jewish War_

[@pmaitrasm]

Josephus Flavius

[@jessemacias4863]

Love the write a Gospel assignment! Wish I had such an assignment. I'd probably plan to do Stephen, then when the deadline approached switched to someone barely alluded to in the letters so I could just make some stuff up.

[@montagdp]

I'm very interested in the book you are working on.

[@Nshiime]

Wow just wow, always discovering something new with you guys ❤

[@dawnbern2917]

I duh-no... when I hear that the Kingdom of God is coming, I don't really see it as apocalyptic... especially when combined with "the kingdom of God is within you"

[@DwayneShaw1]

it's apocalyptic to anyone that doesn't believe in these archaic immoral fairy tales - IF true

[@epicofatrahasis3775]

Only in the later gospels does it become that the kingdom is within you. This is an apologetic to the fact that Jesus’s predictions didn't come true. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; ***and then he shall reward every man according to his works.*** Truly I tell you, ***some who are standing here will not taste death*** before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom Matthew 16:27-28 *CHRISTIAN APOLOGETIC RATIONALIZATIONS* *Rationalization #1: Matthew 16:28 refers to Jesus’ transfiguration, not his second coming.* The transfiguration of Jesus is a story recorded in Matthew 17, Mark 9, and Luke 9. The first problem is that these Gospels place the transfiguration at different times. In Matthew, it occurs after Jesus made the prediction about his second coming. That might make it seem reasonable to think that it was a fulfillment of the earlier prediction. However, Mark and Luke place the transfiguration event before Jesus made spoke the prophecy. Laying aside the obvious discrepency in timing, we can say for certain that an event occurring before a prediction is made can’t be fulfilling the prediction. The “prediction” wouldn’t be a prediction at all. *The preceding verse (verse 27) starts off the description of Jesus’ coming by saying he would come “in glory” with angels to dole out judgment to “every man”. That is not what happened in the transfiguration stories. Therefore, the explanation doesn’t work.* Some try to make it work by separating verse 28 from the preceding verse so that the two verses talk about different “comings”. This is a baseless tinkering with the passage in order to make a doctrine fit the scripture. The same Christians who do this will accuse other of taking verses out of context when they disagree with an interpretation. Yet, this is exactly what they do here. *Rationalization #2: The word translated “generation” can mean “race”. So, Jesus meant the Jewish race would not die out before he returns.* This is a manufactured definition to suit doctrinal purposes. *When you see “generation” in the New Testament is means just that - people living in a particular era, not a race of people.* Elsewhere when he speaks of the Jews, he does so by saying “Jews”. It’s rather strange that he would speak cryptically in just this one instance. *Rationalization #3: When Jesus said “this generation shall not pass away” he meant the generation living at the time of the end times tribulation.* *Correct! Jesus told his followers that they would go through persecution. So, he apparently thought they would be the generation living at the time of the end.* It is evident in the writings of the New Testament that first century Christians saw the tribulations they were going through as a fulfillment of Jesus’ prediction about the end times and the tribulation. If they saw it as such, modern Christians have no real justification not to see it that way as well. Notice that Jesus didn’t say “that generation” - which would be the normal way of referring to a future generation. *He said “this generation”.* ***Besides through a plain common sense reading of the text, we know he meant the people alive while he was speaking because he said that some of his listeners (and the high priest at his trial) would still be alive to see his return to Earth.*** *Rationalization #4: When Jesus said that some of his listeners would be alive to see him return, he was talking about the Day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit descended on the church.* This is another explanation that is so far from rational that is it hard to accept that anyone sincerely believes it. The Book of Acts tells the story of the Holy Spirit appearing over the heads of the saints as tongues of fire endowing them with the magical ability to speak in unlearned languages. *There is no mention of them seeing Jesus in the clouds with angels. The supposed event did not accompany the final judgment. None of the things Jesus said would occur at his return happened on the Day of Pentecost.* *Rationalization #5: When it was revealed to John in his visions that Jesus would come quickly, it is to happen on God’s time scale, not a human time scale. “The time is near” and “coming quickly” are not to be taken literally. To God a thousand years is a day.* This is actually the first Christian attempt (found in 2 Peter 3) to explain away the fact that Jesus had not come as expected. *Believers of the time had begun to waver in their faith because Jesus had not come back as promised.* The writer tells them not to listen to people who say, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” (2 Peter 3:4) By “fathers”, he evidently means the founding fathers of the faith who had all died by that time. *This is evidence that almost from the start of Christianity, believers have been wrestling with the apparent failure of their savior’s end times prophecy.* In verse 8, the writer tries to reassure them by saying, “with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” and continues in the next verse to say that the Lord is not slacking on his promise. He basically tries to make the argument that time is meaningless to God. *This passage is in obvious contradiction to what Jesus himself said about his return and everything else written in the New Testament about it.* This contradiction raises the question: Did the Simon Peter, one of Jesus’ personal disciples, actually write this book? The most truthful answer: Not likely. When reading 2 Peter, we must keep in mind when it was written. It is well-known that many of the writings floating around the early church were not written by the people claimed to have written them, but were forged by believers to push their particular doctrines. This is most likely the case with the book of 2 Peter. *The first clue is that the writer acknowledged that “the fathers” have died. Since Peter was one of those founding fathers of the church, he couldn’t have written this book.* It has proven difficult for scholars to pinpoint exactly when the book was written, but they all place its origin sometime between 60 and 160 A.D. This means that it was written at least 30 years after Jesus’ crucifixion is believed to have taken place when he was 33. Assuming his disciples were somewhere around his own age and taking into account average life expectancy of that time and that, according to church tradition, the apostles were all killed, none of them would have likely been alive in 60 A.D. (the earliest date scholars say the book would have been written). *So, what can we make of the fact that this is in the Bible? It was written by a believer who didn’t want Jesus’ failure to come to cause the faith to die out.* Knowing that Peter was a founding apostle and a personal disciple of Jesus who was deemed to be the first Pope of the Christian faction that came to be known as the Roman Catholic Church, the writer forged this book in Peter’s name. It seems likely that this was an attempt to keep believers in the nascent Catholic churches in the fold. This is not the only case of forgery to uphold Catholic doctrine. (There are other forgeries in the New Testament that have been recognized by scholars as such.) *Whether written by the apostle Peter or something else, it is an obvious rationalization to try to deal with the failure of a prediction that came to be central to the Christian religion.* We do not accept similar rationalizations from modern-day doomsdayers and we shouldn’t accept them from ancient religious people either. *Rationalization #6: In Matthew 16 when Jesus said some of his listeners would see him “coming in his kingdom”, he was talking about his coming into his kingdom in Heaven after his resurrection when he went back to Heaven. Many saw this event through visions.* *This fails to take into account what Jesus said his “coming in his kingdom” would be connected to the day of judgment when he would “reward each according to his works”.* As far as I know, no Christian apologists say the judgment occurred when Jesus supposedly went back to Heaven in the first century. Everything in the New Testament places judgment day at the end of the world. Even if we were to throw the Matthew 16 passage completely out of the Bible, there would still be the problem of other passages where Jesus said *“this generation will not pass”* before he comes and New Testament writers testifying to their belief that he would come in their lifetime. *It is no wonder that this rationalization has largely been dropped by Christian theologians.* *Rationalization #7: Maybe in our human understanding we don’t know what Jesus meant when he said “this generation would not pass away” and that “some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. He couldn’t have meant he was coming in the first century because he hasn’t come back yet and that would make him a false prophet.* This rationalization is nothing more than interpreting the Bible by a doctrine you want to be true. If you’re going to believe in the Jesus of the Bible, shouldn’t you base your doctrines on what the Bible actually says? It is self-deceit to look at Jesus’ “prophecy” detailing his return in the lifetime of his disciples and rationalize why it didn’t happen. Only a mind interested in maintaining the illusion of faith could twist and mangle the plain words of the Bible the way Christians have in an attempt to make the incredible credible. An honest mind looking at the facts would have no choice but to admit that Jesus’ prophecy of the end of days has failed to come true.

[@michaelgarth7077]

Another interesting talk. Thanks.

[@Howie672]

I think the fact the Bible and religious having many “false prophets” is important in understanding what religions are.

[@spiritualanarchist8162]

It's something inherently human to find al kind of ways to convince yourself you didn't spend decades believing the wrong thing . The brother of my grandmother was a Jehova Witnesses . He believed the world would end in his lifetime, and then died in the early 80thies. Decades later, young Jehova witnesses still try to convince people the world will end in our lifetime.

[@elarakamai]

And sadly their grandchildren's grandchildren will still try to convince people the world is about to end. I expect they will likely do this for another 2000 years. But it's a good hook to keep the parishioners in their pews in a state of eternal expectancy. They get to sit and wait and do nothing. Note that's very contrary to the succinct description Bart gives of the essence of Jesus's message to act kindly towards ones fellow.

[@spiritualanarchist8162]

@@elarakamai A lot of people seem to need someone who tells them what to believe and how to behave , and that will never change . I think a lot of these 'extremer 'American' cults , like JW, Scientology , etc are slowly dying out due to social media exposure. But sadly that same social media also gives us potential new crazier global cults, like Qanon.

[@Moodboard39]

Jw is a cult ....pluck out Bible verses and have no understanding....they get things wrong

[@andrevanderschoot842]

The problem with most bible believers is they never ever can ‘see’ anything wrong while gazing into an abyss of contradictions. Best example is the proclaimed urgent return aka second coming of Christ Jesus. When ? Soon very soon. In our lifetime or generation according to most writers in the bible. Then people , christian and non christians alike , are wondering why it takes longer than proclaimed by the insiders and leadership of the early church. Then we ‘learn’ the golden trick ! A day, soon, generation, imminent are completely different matters in God’s realm. A day can mean a thousand years. Imminent can mean postponed and generation can mean something vaguely like a spiritual brand of people that form a singularity . In other words never trust simple straightforward language because in the end it can mean the exact opposite. Do you also promise your children a new specific gift and not coming through as a parent ? And after your child starts to cry because he/she is waiting for three years now , you claim a mummy’s and daddy’s ‘soon’ is not a children ‘s ‘soon’ ? Three years is still ‘soon’ for us older people you ignorant child. The more developed authority always communicates in a way it’s understood correctly by the receiver. Not setting a trap , knowing the lesser developed ones surely misjudge or misinterpret the promise. Evildoers use those tactics.

[@elzoog]

I wonder if Bart Ehrman could comment on Profmth's KZbin videos on if the apostles died for a lie

[@Phi1618033]

Since there isn't really a God, then there's no such thing as a prophet of God, which means all so-called prophets of God are false prophets.

[@zephyr-117sdropzone8]

Where is your evidence there is no God?

[@zephyr-117sdropzone8]

@@notanemoprog Extraordinary evidence? For what extraordinary claim? The claim is not extraordinary. Only to the ones who presuppose naturalism, which has precisely zero evidence in support. NDEs, documented miracles in peer-reviewed journals, fine tuning, all sorts of evidence has been presented. You need to get with the times. Atheism is dying.

[@epicofatrahasis3775]

​​@Zephyr-117's Dropzone NDEs? Yeah, they're so credible. 🙄 Actually atheism is on the rise. "By contrast, the dominant religious imagery of India is Hindu, and predictably NDEs from India typically involve encounters with recognizably Hindu religious figures. Satwant Pasricha and Ian Stevenson provide us with the following case from one of the largest surveys of non-Western NDEs conducted so far: Four black messengers came and held me…. [T]he clerks had a heap of books in front of them…. *Yamraj was there sitting on a high chair with a white beard and wearing yellow clothes.* He asked me, “What do you want?” I told him that I wanted to stay there. He asked me to extend my hand. I don’t remember whether he gave me something or not. Then I was pushed down [and revived] (Pasricha and Stevenson 167). *Here an NDEr is seated near Yamaraj, the Hindu god of death, whose appearance also corresponds to the god’s portrayal in Hindu tradition.* While Western NDErs tend to encounter dead friends and relatives more often than religious figures, Hindu religious figures are prominent in NDEs from India. Additionally, we see that NDErs from different cultures also give different reasons for why they are sent back. Western NDErs are often ‘sent back’ in order to take care of immediate family or for some assumed purpose unknown to them; NDErs from India report meeting clerks in an impersonal afterlife bureaucracy who process the dead and send them back because they have been sent the wrong person due to paperwork mistakes (Pasricha and Stevenson 168-169). *While OBEs are rather common early on in Western NDEs, being visited by a Yamatoot is “the most common initial phase” of Thai NDEs (170).* Where OBEs do occur, “OBEs in Thai NDEs tend immediately to precede meetings with Yamatoots” (171). Tunnels are “largely absent in Thai NDEs” (with one exception unlike Western tunnel experiences), and feelings of peace or euphoria and experiences of light have not been reported at all (172). Thai NDErs are sometimes judged, but their deeds are recounted by reviewing written records of their lives or the testimony of others. The following case is typical: *I … found myself in the judgment hall of Yama’s palace.* I knew that they were ready to judge me for my sins. A giant rooster appeared who told Yama that I had killed him. He emphasized that I had tried to kill him again and again. The rooster also said that he remembered me exactly. An entire flock of roosters also [appeared] and testified that I had killed them, as well. I remembered my actions, and I had to admit that the roosters had told the truth. Yama said that I had committed many sins, and sentenced me to many rebirths both as a chicken, and many other types of birds as well…. But, quite suddenly, an enormous turtle appeared. It screamed at Yama, saying “Don’t take him; he is a good human, and should be allowed to live.” Yama answered the turtle “What did he do to help you?” [ellipses original] (Murphy, “Thailand” 167)." From: *"Hallucinatory Near-Death Experiences » Internet Infidels"*

[@gorillaguerillaDK]

@@zephyr-117sdropzone8 "Fine tuning" LMAO That we find life, living where there is conditions that allow life to to exist isn’t "fine tuning" and "miracles" doesn’t happen!

[@zephyr-117sdropzone8]

@@gorillaguerillaDK Ok, then name 1 other world with advanced species born with the belief in God and the afterlife, which have both been proven by scientists. Babies know about God and the afterlife, so where does this knowledge come from?

[@thoughtsuponatime847]

oooh. spicy topic. Can't wait!

[@ashishmantri3684]

Letting of his or her own religion is one of the most relieving experience, in the beginning it wud be loss of meaning but after some time thw withdrawals go away u feel more emphatic towards ur fellow people

[@dominicestebanrice7460]

Insightful and informative as per usual. Bart's closing comment about elite Roman views on the good life that prevailed at the time of Jesus, made me recall the (good) shock I had upon reading Tolstoy's short work "Confession"; we've completely lost sight of just how radical & revolutionary the preacher from Nazareth really was! The Christian church's takeover of the imperial superpower, and its subsequent growth into a supranational superpower is the greatest irony in history. That Paul guy, eh?.....The ultimate fifth columnist! "Christianity in its true sense puts an end to the State. It was so understood from its very beginning, and for that Christ was crucified." - Leo Tolstoy "Even for a Christian anarchist, Leo Tolstoy’s reading of the Bible was unusual. When he ‘converted’ to Christianity near his 50th birthday, he did not embrace the orthodox Christianity of the traditional church. For him, Jesus was no ‘son of God’, nor did he perform any supernatural miracles. Tolstoy was convinced that these superstitious stories in the Bible had been added by the church in order to keep ‘Christians’ hypnotized enough to ensure that they did not question the unjustifiable compromise that the church had reached with the state. He was convinced that an honest and full application of Christianity could only lead to a stateless and churchless society, and that all those who argued the contrary were devious hypocrites."

[@jf5177]

Nice video Dr. Ehrman. I would disagree with that the “Forces of Good v Evil” was dominant in the Jewish view. Reason being in Judaism we don’t view “evil” as an independent entity. In the book of Isaiah G-d says “I created light and darkness, and I created peace and evil.” and even in Job, Satan is working on behalf of G-d. The concept of dualism where evil is independent of G-d or that Satan is an opposing power to good ie G-d steps outside of ethical and strict monotheism of the Torah. The concept of dualism came much later, even after Jesus.

[@kennethbrownsher1264]

I agree. Judaism rejected Duelism. Even in Job, Satan is the great Accuser of man . However, he is under the power of Hashem.

[@1DaTJo]

Exactly. God is ONE and God has created everything.

[@Kyeudo]

_[" Reason being in Judaism we don’t view “evil” as an independent entity."]_ Your modern Judaism. Not Second Temple Judaism. Your religion has metamorphized over the centuries. _["The concept of dualism where evil is independent of G-d or that Satan is an opposing power to good ie G-d steps outside of ethical and strict monotheism of the Torah."]_ The Torah reveals plenty of polytheistic roots. The oldest manuscripts we have show that Jehovah was once a god subordinate to another. Monotheism was a later development.

[@kennethbrownsher1264]

@@Kyeudo Corret, but the Ethical parts seem Original Yes Hammarabis Laws are old, but they lack various moral or ethical commands. I knew a out Judaisms earlier development from professors. Jesus is a retrograde money back to Polytheism, especially the Trinity

[@Peanut888..]

@@1DaTJo Are you Jewish?

[@rcnfo1197]

Great discussion! Now we have not only the problem of misquoting Jesus, but a misguided Jesus! Where was the Holy Spirit's guide to all truth? This is yet another nail in the coffin of Christianity.

[@joshrogers7816]

I wouldn't be so sure of that I'm afraid. Doesn't do to be complacent.

[@carlosgandolfolopez7086]

It would be very interesting to know your reasons for thinking that Jesus thought of himself that he was the messiah. I read Robert Graves' book titled King Jesus and though his contention is not accepted, it was a great book.

[@Mavors1099]

King Jesus is a fictional novel and graves was not a scholar.

[@DMD5609]

Corinthians 15 does not state that Paul expected that Jesus would come back in his generation.

[@ronaldmccomb8301]

If I wrote a gospel for your class, it would either be the Gospel of Longinus or the Gospel of Martha.

[@bonifaceawa]

Longinus was my first idea (since there is a Gospel of Judas). But I aiming now for the Gospel of the Fig Tree.

[@enijize1234]

I wrote a gospel this morning. The gospel of rectus.

[@edwardmiessner6502]

I would love to read such a gospel where Longinus starts out his recollection of the feat of his great grandfather, Cassius Longinus, who delivered the fatal stab wound in the assassination of Julius Caesar and witnessed Caesar's funeral, and ties it all in with his own witnessing of the passion and crucifixion of Jesus.

[@tinsolder9929]

Does Josephus record other Jewish apocolyptics who were killed? By name?

[@elarakamai]

Allusions, metaphors, symbols, parables. Some text is clearly in this category. E.g. Let the dead bury their dead. Are not most of the other terms, like life, return, rebirth, resurrection, Kingdom of God, the end is near, operating equally on an allegorical plane? The meaning of what Jesus had been preaching seemed to cause confusion even among the apostles, that much more the public, and no doubt, even the writers of the gospels and readers down to today. So no surprise that the "wide road" of interpretation/understanding of the text would be preferentially literal. Yet the texts make a lot more sense in the light of metaphor. For example if there were some small village somewhere in the Levant to be the first converting to the new Jesuan faith within a literal generation of Jesus's crucifixion, then it would be a manifestation of the "kingdom of God" on earth, and Jesus would be "returned" by way of His message, and be among them as "king", fulfilling in symbolic fashion the prophesy.

[@simonkoster]

As Professor Ehrman said, false prophet is probably too harsh. I would be OK with failed prophet.

[@Moodboard39]

Old testament call it called false prophet that things don't come to pass ...

[@jamesboswellii2034]

Mistaken, but not wrong? As a teenager, I began admiring Jesus when I first read his teachings in the Sermon on the Mount. As I grew older and studied him more carefully, I started seeing that Jesus, like his predecessor John the Baptizer, thought -- and taught! -- that the end of the world was going to arrive within his own generation. Yet unlike John who stressed the coming of God’s wrathful fiery punishment, Jesus emphasized the good news of God’s imminently approaching Kingdom. Although ultimately I was compelled to acknowledge that Jesus was proclaiming something that did not happen, I continued admiring him, and still do, for this reason: I finally became convinced that he expected his death would almost immediately be followed by his being gloriously lifted up before the eyes of all the world so that people everywhere could suddenly see his death as a loving, forgiving gift of God intended for the benefit of all humanity. In other words, Jesus was expecting that his dying would soon wonderfully and totally fulfill Isaiah 52:13-53:12 for the sake of everyone on earth, and this understanding of God’s intended “will” was so unexpected that even Jesus had to struggle with it in Gethsemane (Mark 14:33-36). A short while later, as Jesus was standing before his accusers, he told them that they would see him exalted “at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven” (14:62; see Psalm 110 and Daniel 7:13-14 ) In stating that, I think Jesus was saying that they -- even they! -- would soon see and possibly (or even surely?) appreciate what God had done for everyone, including them. (Note also Luke 12:10a.) “But wait a minute,” someone will object. “What Jesus was expecting did not happen. He was mistaken!” In attempting to answer that, I find myself in agreement with historian Dale C. Allison who replied to a similar objection by stating, “I think Jesus had it right: he so thirsted for justice on such a grand scale that he had to embrace his [Jewish] tradition’s belief in the transcendence of history and death. He may have been mistaken, but he wasn’t wrong.” (“The Apocalyptic Jesus: A Debate,” ed. Robert J. Miller, 2001, p. 105 .) Although subsequent events did not fulfill Jesus’ expectations, his unique view of his people’s visionary hopes still may be admired as wondrously forgiving and inclusive.

[@jamesboswellii2034]

Needless to say, what I say above is very different from the last part of Ehrman's interview. I am basically in agreement with everything Ehrman says right up until he says he does not think Jesus expected to be put to death in Jerusalem -- which is certainly not what the early gospel of Mark says from 9:31 on. For a very different (and in my opinion, better) view, see Dale C. Allison's "Constructing Jesus: Memory, Imagination, and History" (2010), paying special attention to Allison's fifth chapter wherein he argues that Jesus expected he would be put to death, and that this was God's will for him, and for that reason Jesus did not resist death. But what I said in the post above goes further than Allison does, for I am convinced that the historical Jesus' expectation that he must die was influenced by Isaiah 53, an understanding which was difficult even for him, as we can see in Mark 9:31-33 where he lashed out at Peter, and later in Mark's Gethsemane scene where Jesus himself struggled with the necessity of his death (14:32-36) as he apparently had found it revealed in Isaiah 53:10. I do not see how anyone can doubt the historicity of that Gethsemane scene wherein Jesus, who had earlier told his disciples that they must be prepared to die with him and warned them that if they sought to save their lives, they would lose their lives (9:35-36), seeks to save his own life even while stating that his will and the Father's will are not one and the same (14:36), though he subordinates his will to that of his Father -- as reveaed in Isaiah 53:10. How different from the Gospel of John in 10:30 where the Son and the Father are one and the same in perfect harmony. (See also John 12:27-28a.) Even so, what Jesus expected to happen did not happen. And so I refer again to my last sentence in the post above.

[@andrevanderschoot842]

@@jamesboswellii2034 i think it’s impossible to reflect on the past without ‘inserting’ certain knowledge of the dominant view in a person’s present. All NT writers lived in a present were Jesus was crucified and raised from the death as fulfillment of prophecy and a Divine plan….so they thought. Since all of them believed this outcome was ‘God’s secret will/plan’ they of course concluded that Jesus had fore knowledge of this plan. Therefor in the gospels Jesus foresees his own crucifixion and gives hints about it in certain places. The problem lies with Jesus early mission. Especially in Matthew Jesus urges the people to be perfect like their Father in heaven and seriously undertake actions to fulfill the law in a new way like Jesus taught. In true love for God and thy neighbor without scoffing at any detail. Jesus himself claims that a house divided in itself cannot exist. The same applies to a mission this important. You cannot proclaim a message like Jesus did in early Matthew , with so much conviction and fire, when you secretly are running a different agenda hoping people won’t listen in the end because otherwise they may refuse to crucify you and the prophecies remain unfulfilled. The bible is a collection of religious opinions that are very often in conflict with one another. You cannot preach a message like Jesus did with true honesty , fire and conviction and at the same time knowing they won’t listen and they really shouldn’t because otherwise a higher agenda would be blocked. That’s the philosophical tirannie of biblical scholars AND parts of scripture that has misguided ordinary people simply asking for a clear direction and instructions for centuries. We were promised a kingdom, but all we got was church… a true wise man once said.

[@jamesboswellii2034]

@@andrevanderschoot842 Thank you for this. I just want to point out to you that Jewish scholar Amy-Jill Levine is in disagreement with several present-day historical Jesus scholars in that she thinks it was NOT the later church, but probably Jesus himself who believed that he would suffer a God-willed death which would result in righteousness for many, a concept she says he "quite likely" derived from "Isaiah's Suffering Servant songs, particularly Isaiah 53." (The Historical Jesus in Context, p. 37). Dale Allison also thinks that Jesus himself 1) believed he would have to die, 2) thought this death was willed by God for a good purpose, and therefore 3) did not seek to escape from death but went toward it. Against those who do not think Jesus went to his death willingly, Allison says, "I think it much more likely that, in this particular, our sources are not bereft of memory. Jesus' decision to die, whenever made and whatever the motivation and whatever his precise interpretation, left a vivid impression [on his followers]. Indeed, next to the fact that Jesus was crucified by order of Pontius Pilate, his acquiescence to his fate is probably the best attested fact about his last days. At some point, he determined to assent to his miserable end, accepting it as the will of God": Constructing Jesus: Memory, Imagination, and History, p. 433.)

[@jamesboswellii2034]

Liberals and progressives (one of which I consider myself to be) tend to dismiss any sense that Jesus himself believed his death was necessary as God's will for him. I myself used to climb right up the wall at the merest suggestion that Jesus himself was in any way into some sort of self sacrificial or atonement (ugh!) thinking. As I grew older, I had to change. Many years ago Joachim Jeremias helped me get my head clearer on this matter, and today Amy-Jill Levine and Dale Allison offer added support for my conviction that Jesus himself was into something like that sort of thinking. I suppose I would change my mind if anyone could convince me that Mark 1:13 and 8:27-33 and 10:35-45 and 14:22-25 and especially 14:32-36 are in no way historical.

[@DwayneShaw1]

@@jamesboswellii2034 so you need someone to convince you that archaic immoral fairy tales that include talking snakes and donkeys,, and unicorns, and zombies crawling out of their graves and roaming the city, are in no way historical? --- grow up

[@susanstein6604]

The Pharisees believed that pikuach nefesh, saving lives superseded all laws, including the Sabbath laws. So some of stories in the “New” Testament.

[@JosephNobles]

You know, positing that Jesus was not expecting to die that weekend suggests that Jesus and the Twelve may have been about to take over the Temple themselves (that is, if the basic idea of their being on the Mount of Olives, armed, guards posted can be seen as historical).

[@sandystrait3878]

These talks are medicinal applications of reason injected into my previously poisoned mind. Thank you for your thoughtful dissertations. That old wounds might one day heal.

[@dribble3111]

We only hear from the ones left behind 😮

[@Venaloid]

18:46 - Do you think Jesus went to Jerusalem because the prophecy in Zechariah 14? The one which states that the apocalypse will begin on the Mount of Olives, just outside Jerusalem?

[@Moodboard39]

Yea, but dispensational doctrine teach it's future event ...Israel coming back ...okay ...does that mean the apostle ??? They have be resurrected ...and go through the tribulation ...well that doesn't make sense

[@bluerfoot]

the "she her" was enough for me to cut it short.

[@1DaTJo]

Loll me too. And the pink hair. These liberal lefties are so stereotypical.

[@TheHookahSmokingCaterpillar]

Then you are easily trigged, aren't you, snowflake?

[@arnulfo267]

What about the phrase "No one knows the day or the hour"?

[@jericosha2842]

Without having finished the video, I do know that even the preterists understand that phrase inside the fuller context to mean that no one knows the exact point in time, but it is imminent and within the generation of those hearing it. I think for those who want to defend the faith must ultimately use 2 Peter: "A day to the Lord is like a thousand."

[@DwayneShaw1]

@@jericosha2842 - still no defense - as the Bible clearly has the godjesus claiming it would happen before some people he was talking to died. At best you are only demonstrating how contradictory the Bible is

[@rocketdogticker]

The Quran confirms Jesus(as) son of Mary(as) was indeed a righteous servant of G-d. This is also stated in the book of Acts.

[@gregmark1688]

And of course, we believe everything we read, instead of trying to use the brains god gave us to think for ourselves. That's how research works -- just believe everything you read.

[@DwayneShaw1]

fairy tales also confirm that Goldilocks broke into a house owned by a family of bears

[@elzoog]

As far as grading, I give Bart Ehrman an 85%. I hope that teaches him how he can do a better job.

[@gorillaguerillaDK]

Eh, not without addressing what it would take to get rated higher…

[@elzoog]

@@gorillaguerillaDK Well, the semester is over so Bart has probably already forgotten the material covered. Not only that, but I have 300 other students. If I only had say, 30 students I could give him more attention. He can console himself on the fact that grading is SO important for his education.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

@@elzoog Do you have an actual point?

[@elzoog]

@@jeffryphillipsburns If getting an 85% isn't clear enough for you as to what Bart is getting wrong, then you must not be well educated.

[@TheHookahSmokingCaterpillar]

@@elzoog Any teacher worth their salt doesn't just give a grade, they also explain what the student needs to do to improve. Formative feedback is immensely more important than quantitative feedback.

[@aguitarcalledchutzpah]

Christ says in the gospel that he didnt know when the Son of God would return and only the Father knew. So how does he say the end would come in his life? Also, he says to look out for signs for the end so if the end is coming in his lifetime, why not just say, the end will come in his lifetime?

[@Raz.C]

I haven't watched it yet, I just wanted to add my two cents worth: According to Mosaic law, a false prophet was ANYONE who drew worship away from "The One True God." By definition, Jesus was a false prophet, since anyone offering prayers to Jesus or to a God who had a son, is NOT worshipping the singular and indivisible God of Israel. The reason I said that was because I'm expecting Bart to say that Jesus wasn't a false prophet. Let's find out...

[@ericjohnson6665]

It was because Jesus told his apostles that he would come again, that many hoped he meant soon, during their lifetime. Combine that with their earlier expectations for a Messiah who would overthrow Rome, and they mistook his pronouncements, wrote them down, and made it look like Jesus was going to manifest his kingdom here on Earth, despite his repeated assertions that his kingdom was not of this world. As the followers knew of no other worlds, that comment never hit home. It was the apostles who became the false prophets, not Jesus.

[@Moodboard39]

No reason to lie ....they believe every word Jesus said...to the point of dying and throw into prison ....

[@crede9427]

Bart is the GOAT.

[@altonlg24]

The explanation of how Jesus is unique that ends around 15:00 sounds quite like Jeremiah. Jeremiah 7 comes very much to mind.

[@dafflad1]

Western mainline Christianity is complete mental gymnastics- Fort Knox theological cemetery

[@ivettepalacin8599]

Are other world religions contemporary with or before the Torah also apocalyptic?

[@Robert_L_Peters]

Thank you

[@courtcosta]

Does anyone know if Megan herself is a Christian? Just wondering, don't know if that's ever been covered.

[@barnsweb52]

The matter is choice - who do we choose to side with. Most sit on the fence and end up duds. "Choose life that you may live!"

[@spankduncan1114]

"Vote with your life...vote YES". Ran Das

[@chables74]

The NT interpretation of the Melchizedek story is very strange to me; I don’t see how it can be read as Abraham giving an offering to Melchizedek, everything about the story in Genesis seems to indicate it’s the other way around.

[@James-wv3hx]

I'm dumbfounded that God would want to take responsibility for all of this b.s.

[@Hamann9631]

Bart, it looks like The Bible is telling us Melchizedek didn't have parents. There is a Joseph Smith Translation for that. God revealed through Joseph Smith Junior that it is the power of God (priesthood) which Melchizedek held which has no parents.

[@christisgod71320]

PROFESSING TO BE WISE THEY BECAME FOOLS

[@josephbarnabas3568]

Obviously the original Jesus was not mistaken in his predictions. The unknown authors of the Pauline synoptic gospels who are clueless about the historical Jesus were mistaken in their putting words in the lips of Jesus. In the gospel of barnabas, the coming of the Son of Man will happen after 600 years time since the time of Jesus. Obviously not after 6 years since the time of Jesus as implied in the Pauline gospels.

[@Mubarak386]

-If Jesus was anticipating that the Kingdom of God would be a physical reality before the end of his life, is it fair to say that he wasn’t expecting to be crucified? Jesus never being killed Please read Bible carefully The devil talking to Jesus and referred to old testament, Psalm 91 As Muslims we believe that Jesus was protected and rescued by Lord of heaven and never killed as was mentioned in holy Quran. New American Standard Bible 1995 Matthew 4:6 and *said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, ‘He will command His angels concerning You’; and ‘On their hands they will bear You up, So that You will not strike Your foot against a stone.’” New American Standard Bible Psalm 91 3 For it is He who rescues you from the net of the trapper And from the deadly plague. 11 For He will give His angels orders concerning you, To protect you in all your ways. 12 On their hands they will lift you up, So that you do not strike your foot against a stone. 14 “Because he has loved Me, I will save him; I will set him securely on high, because he has known My name. 15 “He will call upon Me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble; I will rescue him and honor him. Kingdom of God is Islam next comment will be with more details.

[@karlschmied6218]

John the Baptist, by saying that every tree that doesn't bear fruit will be cast into the fire, was the first evolutionist. (burning isn't necessary btw)

[@caucasianbulldog6057]

Where did you get the idea that Jesus was preaching the end of the world? That idea comes from the book of Revelation and John more than half a century later. Jesus didn't preach the end of the world. What are you talking about?

[@GabrielEddy]

So, there were many apocalypticists (doomsday prophets) before Jesus, and there have been many since him. Religious fanaticism has existed for many millennia.

[@tedgrant2]

We who are alive and remain will meet the Lord in the air next week ! (1st Thessalonians 4:17)

[@terryreynolds200]

YOUR RELIGION AT ONE TIME BELIEVED LEFT HANDEDNESS WAS A SIGN OF WICKEDNESS AND THAT THE BIBLE JUSTIFIED SLAVERY....

[@manfrummt]

Just from a psychological point of view, these people relish in the idea of disavowing Jesus, therefore their perspective is tainted. There is an underlying arrogance, painted with passive aggression. They clearly don't abide by the principles of the Bible, namely the principle that knowledge for selfish reasons or to control others is a waste. Love is most important.

[@manfrummt]

14:25 - not necessarily true. "What matters is your actions towards others.". Jesus was most concerned about your heart towards God the Father.

[@aaroncalloway2898]

Dr Ehrman is obviously a brilliant man, and I like probably most of you admire his work. But it is slightly painful when we hear him readily accept that literary interpolation occurred in cases of the gospel writers contriving narrative pieces where Jesus predicts his crucifixion, while he stops himself extending that logic to the rest of it or even the 2 instances of Josephus which allude to Jesus.

[@Kyeudo]

The reason he doesn't believe that the whole of the story of Jesus is fake is because the evidence says it isn't. Mythicism amounts to "but we can doubt that evidence and come up with an internally coherent narrative to explain what happened instead". That's nice, but you don't have any evidence to contradict the existing evidence for a human Jesus.

[@TheHookahSmokingCaterpillar]

@@Kyeudo You are being too black and white. It is not that Ehrman says that there isn't any evidence if interpolation, it's that in his interpretation there isn't, or that he does not find the proposed evidence for it convincing, whilst others do. Historians rarely state thing in absolute terms, and as someone once said, "All history is interpretation."

[@Paul-hl8yg]

"Was Jesus a false prophet?" ... Of course he was.

[@AsterixObelixNL]

A false prophet? Like as in the opposite of real prophets?

[@patrickhurley7029]

So you dont think the Pagan beliefs isnt why he died and on the 3rd day he rose again?

[@mb3503-o4e]

There is a wonderful innocence projected in these podcasts

[@juiceytee]

Well done 👍 ❤

[@MrArdytube]

Bart asks students to write their own Gospel….. I am so glad I did not take that course,,,, shudder

[@SirLangsalot]

Bart is such a chill, cool guy. He could be all arrogant and egotistical, but no!

[@DanielStewart80]

He is exceedingly both arrogant and egotistical; and neither his soft spoken demeanor nor his otherwise polite mannerisms, in any way whatsoever, serve to alter this aspect of his character. I now pray to the Father, in the Holy Name of Jesus-just as I have before-that this spiritually barren man, Bart, may come to truly both know and love God, while he yet lives. ††† I glory not in any truth that I happen to speak; for how could I justly boast on that which I was freely given, whereof I therefore also freely received? All Praise, Honor and Glory be to God, in Whom is all Truth and from Whom is all Truth received. Love and peace to everyone. To my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus, Grace be unto you, Godspeed and God Bless. To the world, please seek Jesus the Christ and God Bless.

[@thysvanzyl2782]

If someone could help me please: According to Bart Ehrman, who might have come up with the Eucharist ?

[@thysvanzyl2782]

And so, Jesus who drove demons out of people and brought mental health to people - he completely misjudged where he stood with the different authorities ?

[@cshe92]

Someone help me.. in the video regarding the Gospel of Mark, Bart says that Jesus did say he would go to die in Jerusalem. However, in this video he is stating that Jesus did NOT expect to die. What is the cause of this apparent discrepancy and what am I missing?

[@Moodboard39]

Jesus knew he was going to die

[@chefchaudard3580]

Jesus would have seen no reason to think he would be put to death, because there was no reason for that. Except for politics. He committed no crime against the Law. He was an Orthodox Jew and there was no legal reason to stone him. He was crucified by the Roman authorities for sedition, with maybe the help of some Jewish top brass who wanted to get rid of a trouble maker. But how some Rabbi preaching in a remote place of Palestine, with a handful of followers, could have foreseen that?

[@JAMESCARNEY273]

Because he was God incarnate? I mean, yes you could say I have a bias since I believe Christ was God, but if we take that proposition as our A Priori starting point then the Biblical evidence for that is consistent throughout The Old and New Testament. @@chefchaudard3580

[@jerrylyns7331]

If Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet I’d say the burning of the Jewish temple and the first Christian churches in the decades after he died count

[@francmittelo6731]

Was Jesus a False Prophet? Maybe. Jesus Christ said he would return before all his eye-witness followers had died. It's been ~2000 years. All his eye-witness followers are long dead, and still no Jesus Christ.. So, either Jesus Christ lied or the people who wrote his story lied.

[@TheDanEdwards]

Preterists solve that problem by having Jesus return in the destruction of the temple in 70CE.

[@francmittelo6731]

@@TheDanEdwards By saying that, they just create more problems. So, the Kingdom of God came and went without anybody noticing it. lol

[@epicofgilgamesh9964]

​@@TheDanEdwards Except it doesn't work. *Jesus falsely prophesied his return in the 1st century* For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; ***and then he shall reward every man according to his works.*** Truly I tell you, ***some who are standing here will not taste death*** before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom Matthew 16:27-28 Truly I tell you, ***some who are standing here*** will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God Luke 9:27 Truly I tell you, ***this generation will certainly not pass away*** until all these things have happened Mark 13:30 The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Truly I tell you, ***this generation will certainly not pass away*** until all these things have happened Matthew 24:29-34 There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near. When you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I tell you, ***this generation will certainly not pass away*** until all these things have happened Luke 21:25-32 *Jesus promised to return over 2, 000 years ago and he still hasn’t.* Jesus and the angels never appeared from Heaven, the stars never fell from the sky, none of these things happened. Nothing he prophesied happened.

[@greenefieldmann3014]

Skip to 4:16 for the topic.

[@dm0065]

It's thoughtful of Megan to include her pronouns with her name, and it demonstrates that she's a good person. Wish I knew Bart's.

[@alanthiercelin5218]

what about jesus apparitions, signs and wonders, miracles ? where do they come from ? and if you don't believe in miracles, no wonder you don't believe in jesus.If miracles don't come from jesus, it may be a paranormal phenomena and has nothing to do with religions.

[@SweetPeteUnleashed]

Yeah, the real life testimonies and an honest observation of the world far outweighs any clever sounding arguments that could possibly be made. The truth is already written on our hearts and it is truly sad to see so many deceived by the apparent "wisdom" of man...

[@epicofatrahasis3775]

*Miracles and Apotheosis in the Ancient Mediterranean World* *"It should first be noted that miracle stories are not uncommon in the literature of this period.* Ancient people believed in a world permeated by the supernatural and readily accepted stories of miracles and believed in stories of visions and visitors from the world of the divine all the time. *Even very sober and sometimes sceptical historians like Tacitus will pass on accounts of miracles that he clearly accepts and expects his audience to believe as historical.* So when we read stories of how the emperor Augustus was miraculously conceived by the god Apollo, or how his birth was presaged by a new star in the heavens, or how Julius Caesar was seen ascending into the heaven after his death or how Vespasian healed lame and blind people who asked him for a miracle, we accept that these stories represent the kinds of things ancient people genuinely believed about great men. Or we accept that they are at least told to indicate that the man in question was great. *What we don't do is accept that simply because people believed these stories they must mean that they really happened.* And this is even when the stories are presented to us by a very careful historian and given to us as verified fact. Take Tacitus' account of the miracles of the emperor Vespasian: "In the months during which Vespasian was waiting at Alexandria for the periodical return of the summer gales and settled weather at sea, many wonders occurred which seemed to point him out as the object of the favour of heaven and of the partiality of the Gods. One of the common people of Alexandria, well known for his blindness, threw himself at the Emperor's knees, and implored him with groans to heal his infirmity. This he did by the advice of the God Serapis, whom this nation, devoted as it is to many superstitions, worships more than any other divinity. .... And so Vespasian, supposing that all things were possible to his good fortune, and that nothing was any longer past belief, with a joyful countenance, amid the intense expectation of the multitude of bystanders, accomplished what was required. *The hand was instantly restored to its use, and the light of day again shone upon the blind. Persons actually present attest both facts, even now when nothing is to be gained by falsehood."* (Histories, IV, 81) Tacitus was closely connected to the court of Vespasian's sons and successors, Titus and Domitian, and so in a position to know the "persons actually present" and to consult them long after Vespasian's death "when nothing is to be gained by falsehood". He was also a very careful historian who scorned those who took rumour and stories as fact without checking them against sources and eye witnesses and who condemned those who "catch eagerly at wild and improbable rumours in preference to genuine history" (Annals, IV,11). *Despite this, I don't know anyone who would read the account above and conclude that the emperor really had magical healing powers and genuinely used his supernatural abilities to heal people.* The fact that even a judicious and often sceptical analyst like Tacitus accepted this story shows us just how readily people in the ancient world accepted claims of the miraculous. *One form of miracle that was widely believed in was the idea of apotheosis, where a great man is physically taken up in to the heavens and raised to divine status.* It was claimed that Romulus, the founder of Rome, underwent this process and later appeared to his friend Julius Proculus to declare his new celestial status. The same claim was made about Julius Caesar and Augustus, with supposed witnesses observing their ascent into the heavenly realm. Lucian's satire The Passing of Peregrinus includes his scorn for the claim that the philosopher was taken up into the celestial realm and was later seen walking around on earth after his death. The Chariton novel Callirhoe has its hero Chaereas visiting the tomb of his recently dead wife, saying he "arrived at the tomb at daybreak" where he "found the stones removed and the entrance open. At that he took fright." Others are afraid to enter the tomb, but Chaereas goes in and finds his wife's body missing and concludes she has been taken up by the gods." If you want to read how the resurrection legend grew over time, read the below article by Tim O'Neill who is a former Christian and has been studying the scholarship for over 25 years. *Answer* What-evidence-is-there-for-Jesus-Christs-death-burial-and-resurrection/answer/Tim-ONeill-1 - Quora You can also read the below article by a former Christian apologist on how he agrees with the mainstream scholarship that Jesus was a failed apocalyptic prophet. *"ex-apologist: On One of the Main Reasons Why I Think Christianity is False (Reposted)"* Also, how cognitive dissonance possibly explains early Christianity. *“The Rationalization Hypothesis: Is a Vision of Jesus Necessary for the Rise of the Resurrection Belief?”* - by Kris Komarnitsky | Κέλσος - Wordpress *"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history? -- by Dr Steven DiMattei"* *"How Did The Gospel Writers Know? - The Doston Jones Blog"* *"Yes, the Four Gospels Were Originally Anonymous: Part 1 - The Doston Jones Blog"* *"Are Stories in the Bible Influenced by Popular Greco-Roman Literature? - The Doston Jones Blog"* *"Gospels Not Written By Matthew, Mark, Luke or John - The Church Of Truth"* *"February 2015 - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"* *"Jesus and the Messianic Prophecies - Did the Old Testament Point to Jesus? - The Bart Ehrman Blog"* *"Jesus did not fulfill any messianic prophecies - Reductio Ad Absalom"* *"Jesus Was Not the Only “Prophet” to Predict the Destruction of the Temple - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"*

[@samirmutaschar5926]

No, he was not, he was original according to the Quran if you don't believe the Quran this is not my problem

[@dribble3111]

I am eternal no end😊

[@robertloader9826]

Why Miss Lewis feels the need to share her clearly obvious pronouns is even more of a mystery...

[@davidclark6694]

When people don't understand the 7000 year time table they get stuck on the word "soon" too much. Yeshua tells you exactly how long it will take. He tells you exactly the day and year of his return, but not in the language you'd expect. You have to have eyes to see it

[@terryreynolds200]

Then you would not enjoy the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History....The Earth is 4.3 billion years old, and Homo Sapiens have been here for at least 300,000 years.

[@sanaltdelete]

I haven’t watched the podcast in quite a while, but I am absolutely loving the microphone upgrade for Dr. Bart Ehrman. Keep at it people you were doing great work.

[@IsacBorgert]

Read my book about it, Jesus Failed and Finished in Disaster

[@JamesBinger-qs8hs]

Ttttt

[@adamclark1972uk]

It's a good colour

[@RadicalCaveman]

@@adamclark1972uk Excited by black?

[@simonthompson2764]

Professor Ehrman has made Bible scholarship available for us plebs. Totally altered my view of the Bible. Very few Christians have either the interest or guts to go deeper than their surface devotional interest in the scriptures.

[@Willie_Wahzoo]

Can you blame them, really? They're told their whole life that they're essentially perfidious cowards who will be tortured in a fire for all of eternity if they don't "believe in Jesus" (whatever that means---seeing as it means many different things to many different people.). It's hard to turn away from something taught so strictly to you and to turn away from the belief of your family, friends and most of the people around you.

[@simonthompson2764]

@@Willie_Wahzoo 👍

[@FionaBranker]

Oh wow I thought "plebs" was solely a Trinidadian word 😅 thank you for using it in this comment

[@BrunoCardoso-dp3bd]

You find what you are searching to.. internet gives you the answer you want

[@simonthompson2764]

@@BrunoCardoso-dp3bd Internet? No. Academic scholarship? Yes.

[@drumwaves1]

It'll be a sad day when I don't hear new content from Bart. I could listen to this stuff all day

[@timhodor9271]

One of the better episodes thus far, very informative, really enjoyed this one!

[@kobe51]

Thanks for asking the big questions that most Christians would never dare to bríng up.

[@DMD5609]

Jesus never said that the end of the world would come in his generation or even close to the next generation. Megan Lewis put up this false question and Bart did not correct her. When some people asked Jesus he replied that no one knows when the end will come. Matthew 24:36

[@DMD5609]

Bart Erhman should be debating with a Catholic theologian like Scott Hahn, or apologists like Jimmy Akin and Trent Horn. They know their stuff.

[@AndriyValdensius-wi8gw]

David cottage Dr Ehrman covers that. Didn't you listen ? The Gospels were written at different times and as the years passed the message shifted, adjusting to circumstances, as it became increasingly obvious that Jesus wasn't going to come back "in their lifetimes ". I seem to remember reading Christ saying, "before this generation is out" or similar, although I'm not enough of a scholar to quote chapter and verse. As the years passed Christianity spread and became more organised. They had local bishops, deacons and what have you. I'm sure there was a lot of money involved as well. Christianity had to be marketed effectively. Marketing is not a recent invention, by any means.

[@DMD5609]

@@AndriyValdensius-wi8gw Wrong, the apostles kept notes of what he said, nowhere in the bible does it say they did not take notes, they could not rely on just their memories. They passed what was preached on to others in the church hierarchy of those times. Jesus didn't leave a bible but he told the apostles that not one word (Jesus meant the true meaning) must be changed from what he said. He also said that the Holy Spirit will tell them what to say and do. Jesus could have got highly educated Jews to be his apostles, instead, the twelve he picked were fishermen and from other simple professions.

[@DMD5609]

@@AndriyValdensius-wi8gw "Before this generation will pass away" does not mean the time of those Jews who were living 2000 years ago. Read Matthew 24 entirely and you will see that Jesus meant the end times, as he also said there will be wars and earthquakes in various places (on Earth) meaning it will be a long time to come.

[@unsiliquaria]

I just wished muslims who are very pleased with Ehrman's skepticism realized they're not any better than christians. For instance, the Quran has only one version just because all the others were eliminated very early on.

[@pamalickkujabi3461]

Hahaha nice joke

[@Endrin911]

@@pamalickkujabi3461 There's only one cult thats still practising bloody sacrifice, apostacy kills.. etc Wake up, abdul boy. Yours is the funniest among existing religious books.

[@pamalickkujabi3461]

@@Endrin911 It will be good if you talk on matters you have knowledge on or else you make a fool of yourself! My humble advice to you

[@pamalickkujabi3461]

@@notanemoprog Oh okay standup comedian I heard you

[@ernestschroeder9762]

@@pamalickkujabi3461 the koran is full of stories that people had heard and attributed it to mohammed, but, in honesty, since neither jesus or mohammed ever thought to write anything down (unfortunately god didn't think writing important as most people of that time were illiterate) we can not know what either one actually said.

[@gillesmeura3416]

I've been listening to Bart Ehrman and viewing numerous videos on early christianism for several years now. I think this video gives an exceptional insight into early christianism in a most succinct way. Amazing job. Well... coming from Bart... not really surprising! 😉

[@gregmark1688]

That's a good word, 'christianism', I might have to adopt that.

[@garrybooker]

Annointism, Yahwehism, Abrahamism, Paulism, Scripticism. The possibilities are endless.

[@James-sk1kp]

​@@garrybooker churchianity, Paulianity lol

[@skyer82]

Finally! 🎉 Bart got the propper microphone! ❤ so happy to be finally able to hear the podcast with good sound ❤

[@nasonguy]

That gospel assignment sounds super fun... if you're only taking one course that semester, haha. I just imagine, slammed with 15 credits, several finals and papers coming up, and goddammit Bart wants to write the dang Bible?!? lol. Glad I'm not in college anymore man.

[@BanjaraHillbillies]

I am ex-clergy. Recovering Anglican Priest. Thank you, Bart and Megan!

[@SugoiEnglish1]

Let's not assume Erhman goes unrefuted here. Daniel Wallace give a fine balance to Erhman. Watch the debates.

[@adamclark1972uk]

If you change your mind, I'm sure the church will take you back.

[@johnbevan4684]

Megan is super sweet and has a big brain. She's an excellent host. Thanks, Megan!

[@chrisdriver7776]

Don't need the pronouns though.

[@edwinf4524]

Here in Germany we love the teachings and knowledge of Bart Ehrman. - But my evangelical friends kind of hate Bart. 😂😅

[@Nexus-jg7ev]

Ironically, it was German theologians who kicked the entire critical New Testament scholarship off, such as David Friedrich Strauss and Albert Schweizer. Gerd Ludeman was German too, and even Bart Ehrman has German roots.

[@edwinf4524]

@@Nexus-jg7ev you are right😊👍🌻

[@andrewmays3988]

The truth about our cherished beliefs can be very painful. Few love to hear the sins they love to act.😇

[@codecixteen]

I'm sorry but sometimes when Bart is gazing directly at the camera in his most serene and sagacious state of mind he looks like he's stoned, and I don't mean biblically. :P

[@77goanywhere]

But as he is as sharp as a razor, it must simply be that he is highly experienced as an interviewee.

[@billball6503]

Would love to see episodes on what we can say about Jesus' family, as well as the supposed tension between Paul and James/Peter in the early church. I know other scholars have a lot to say about this, but the evidence they work with has always seemed flimsy to me. Would be interesting to hear a more measured view from Bart.

[@jeffmacdonald9863]

Definitely would love to see Bart's take on James.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

I think an episode about Jesus’s and the early church’s relation to economics (the root of all evil, etc.)-and how church positions on that matter of wealth acquisition has changed or varied over the centuries-would be much more useful.

[@Larry30102]

James Tabor has some interesting things to say about Jesus family

[@IsacBorgert]

Read my book about it, Jesus Failed and Finished in Disaster

[@Moodboard39]

James is written about Israel and the law ....if u read it u would of understand that .... Paul was apostle to the gentiles ( non new ) yet many people get confused and can't able to discern between the two You have to see that dispensational

[@AConcernedCitizen420]

I love it! Bart stated that the authors of at least two of the gospels were actively putting words in Jesus’s mouth or keeping him mute as they saw fit! 😂 Bart has won a subscriber!

[@scambammer6102]

he shouldn't be assuming that jesus even had a mouth, much less what the guy said

[@AConcernedCitizen420]

@@scambammer6102 😂 amen!!

[@AndriyValdensius-wi8gw]

"Putting words into the mouths" of various historical figures was standards practice during the Greco-Roman period. Historians like Tacitus, Livy or Cassius Dio wrote about people who lived a hundred or more years before them. Yet they write what someone supposedly said. As Dr Bart explained, they just made it up. They wrote what X might have plausibly said on such and such an occasion given the circumstances.

[@SrikantSalvi]

BOTHER DR BART WHAT U ARE PROPAGATING IS OLD STUFFS ALREADY REJECTED BY CHROSTIAN SCHOLARSHIP. NOW HISTORICAL JESUS IS ACCEPTED BY SECULAR HISTORIANS. AS REGARDS HIS DIVINE NATIURE AND MIRACLES PERFORMED BY HIM U SHOULD READ THE WRITINGS OF JOSPHUS FILAWAS AND BABYLON AND JERUSALEM TALMUDS OF JEWISH FAITH OF 1ST AND 2ND CENTURY. TILL REFORMATION JEWISH SHOLATSHIP CONSIDETED JESUS AS THUG AND DECEIVER. BUT TODAY JESUS IS ACKNOWLEDGED HIM AS RABBI TEACHER. WHAT A TRANRFORMATION.

[@deplant5998]

TL-DR: all prophets are false prophets.

[@gregmark1688]

Too short-should'veread: that answer is not useful, because scholarship is not designed to answer the question of god's existence. Dr Ehrman answers the more useful questions "Did Jesus consider himself a prophet" and "Was he seen as a false prophet in his day".

[@AzimuthAviation]

I find it amazing that modern humans haven't overcome the basic psychology of ancient people's flawed ideas. Jesus doesn't stack up...

[@tophers3756]

We are primates with primate brains.

[@littlebitofhope1489]

How can they when huge medical organizations like the APA come up with utter nonsense like having a delusion is a mental illness unless it is in a group.

[@abedonwona8576]

It's amazing!!

[@theobolt250]

It can't be said often enough, loud enough. Jesus swung... and missed! That there came a massive following after his death... purely because people who invested in his ideas, couldn't let it go! The inventors of the resurrection and whatnot.

[@littlebitofhope1489]

@@theobolt250 Actually the only way it took off was due to Roman Society at the time. Basically, if Paul, who was a Roman Citizen, had not taken up the gauntlet for Christianity, it never would have gotten off the ground. If you weren't a Citizen, you were ignored. So it was political, as many things are.

[@reikowallach2465]

I think I can answer the question about the Bodmer Papyri and why Phokion J Tanos is of interest. He smuggled a lot of antique documents from the ME to Europe, including the Nag Hammadi library. His life make a fascinating story, reads like noir-fiction and Lovecraft stories at times James M. Robinson has written a lot about him.

[@apollion888]

I just wanted to say "No, Paul was."

[@ferrantepallas]

listing pronouns, Megan, really?

[@ngliscsaxon6128]

She has short pink hair what else do you expect lol

[@MichaelYoder1961]

Megan is such a great facilitator for this podcast. And Bart - well, what can you say? The humour between the two of them and the easy-to-understand explanations are fabulous. Thanks to you both!

[@joeboxter3635]

Why does Megan have a (she/her)?

[@BobSmith-vo9hv]

You know very well why she has "she/her" pronouns in her chyron, and you are being passive-aggressive. Hair dyed pink & cut short, bluestocking glasses, nose-piercing, pronouns; young, female, British academic. From this we can say with 90%+ certainty that she is: From a well-heeled family in the Home Counties; Went to Oxford or Cambridge; Is a 3rd or 4th wave feminist; Is pro-choice; Voted Remain in the Referendum; Votes either Labour or Liberal Democrat - and is, as chance would have it, quite similar in appearance to Lib Dem MP Layla Moran (and if she has dual American citizenship, she also votes Democrat); Reads the Guardian; Supports Just Stop Oil & co.; Is most emphatically the ideological opposite of a TERF; Believes that Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Douglas Murray etc are all literally Nazis; Has certainly read her Foucault & Derrida, etc; In short, she is a far-left ideologue. Which is obvious & doesn't need to be slyly inferred with feigned wide-eyed innocence as per your question.