Was Mary A Virgin?

A historical presentation of the virgin birth accounts of Jesus, and the perpetual virginity of Mary.
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Transcript at tenonreligion.com
Twitter: @ReligionTen, @DrMarkBanas
Graphics by Mark Banas. Images in public domain.
Video editing software: HitFilm Express
Idea source attributions:
John Dominic Crossan, Bart Ehrman, Paula Frederickson, James Tabor
ehrmanblog.org/really-stories...
ehrmanblog.org/why-was-jesus-...

[@huddan6137]

Very enlightening. Thank you for your teaching.

[@lcurt5910]

Need to talk to someone who really knows the bible and the ancient scriptures

[@johnpro2847]

I actually believe your take more that the praying class explanation..amen.

[@colinmul981]

And she was still a virgin after birth with the Hyman still intact they state

[@bellottibellotti9185]

do a little more research about the early chrurch fathers

[@johnpro2847]

These days Mary would be considered jailbait..amen

[@trommelbiel]

The virgin Mary was never created to have kids outside of Jesus. St. Joseph understood that very well.

[@peppernbo]

explain

[@trommelbiel]

@@peppernbo The bible did not touch on every topic. Not every holy book made it to the bible. The bible was compiled by the Riman Catholic Church and they also know a few things that protestant don't. For example that James write a book where he clearly alluded to the perpetual virginity of the blessed virgin Mary. This knowledge and tradition has been known for over 2000 years. Saint Joseph was a widower when he married the Virgin Mary and he was already an old man. If Jesus had biological brothers and sisters why would it be necessary for Jesus to entrust the care of his mother to saint John?

[@peppernbo]

@@trommelbiel you may be right but i wouldnt go as far as to say mary wasnt created to have kids--but who knows. there is alot of mysteries in the bible

[@trommelbiel]

@@peppernbo Yeah the bible has some mysteries but probably 99.99% have been unveiled as the end approaches. Once again if Mary had other children, male or female Jesus wouldn't need to entrust the care of his mother to a disciple. No, Jesus had no biological brothers or sisters. It is difficult to understand this mystery in our hypersexualized world how a married woman could still remain a Virgin after marriage but it is not difficult for God. The Virgin Mary fully understood her role as well as saint Joseph.

[@peppernbo]

@@trommelbiel i agree with you most likely but we will never know 100 percent sure . possibility that she only had one other kid after jesus and that child maybe had died for some reason or wasnt able to take care of her.

[@johnmphiri3746]

Like all other non Catholics You are wrong on the perpetual virginity of Mary.

[@TenOnReligion]

As mentioned near the beginning of the episode, this is based on a historical-critical perspective and not a faith perspective.

[@trommelbiel]

Saint Joseph was not even in Nazareth when the Virgin Mary was almost due to give birth to Jesus. If he did then your conspiracy theory could remotely make sense. Joseph was forced to return to Bethlehem following the Roman decree that required him to return to where he was born and Jesus was born shortly after. Isaiah prophesied the birth of Jesus 700 years before it took place and Joseph was never named as the Foster father by Isaiah so there was no need for Joseph to have planned the birth of Jesus to occur in Nazareth. The prophecy had to be fulfilled in one way or the other.

[@jvlp2046]

I do not believe in the PERPETUAL VIRGINITY of Blessed Mary while under oath to God from the Sacrament of Matrimony/Marriage Vows... Anyone who practices and accepts freely the "Vow of CELIBACY" permanently while under their Marriage Vow is guilty of committing a SIN against God... However, I do believe in the VIRGINITY RESTORATION when Blessed Mary became a WIDOW of St. Joseph and became a "Free Woman" once again before she died... WHY need for restoration?... To forever remind us all till eternity that a VIRGIN MAIDEN gave birth to the "PREPARED BODY" created by God (ref. Hebrews 10:5) through the Holy Spirit, the Son of God (Christ Jesus) and not just a "HA ALMAH" (The Young Woman) Prophesied by Prophet Isaiah. (ref. Isaiah 7:14)... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen and Amen...

[@lucillebonds2196]

When St. Bernadette asked the Lady in the Apparition of Lourdes who appeared to her to identify herself. This was the question of the Bishop she should ask to know her identity. So our Lady told her "I AM THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION." This is to confirm the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception which was made by Pope Pius ix few months before the Apparition. As we were told that St. Bernadette was illiterate, did not know how to read and write so she has no knowledge about this Dogma. Why did she not identify herself as the Mother of God as she always do in all of her Apparition except this Apparition of Our Lady of Lourdes.

[@jvlp2046]

@@lucillebonds2196 Did you see the deception here?... Pope Pius IX proclaimed first the Immaculate Conception Doctrine/Dogma created by the Roman Catholic Church on Dec. 8, 1854, almost two (2) years before the Apparition of Blessed Mary to Bernadette Soubirous existed between February 11 to July 16, 1858, in Lourdes, France... and not just a few months as you had claimed... If the Immaculate Conception is TRUE, would it be more reliable, authentic, realistic, more agreeable (undebatable) to know "FIRST" from the Apparation of Blessed Mary to Bernadette before it was proclaimed by Pope Pius IX about that Dogma... Logically speaking, It must be REVELATION come first, before PROCLAMATION... Aside from that, why was the Dogma not revealed to the Apostle or after the Death of Blessed Mary in the 1st or 2nd Cent. A.D.?... that took almost 1800 years, before the Roman Catholic Church proclaimed the Dogma in 1854 A.D., followed by the Apparition almost 2 years later in 1858 A.D. ..,. that was VERY ODD... Therefore, perhaps, the Apparition might be the "WOLF in SHEEP Clothing," disguised as Blessed Mary... The Bible warned us, in the last days, there will be MIRACLES, SIGNS, and WONDERS (Apparition) to deceive many even the Elect (People of God)... Why would Blessed Mary allow Bernadette to kneel down (bend knees/prostrate) before her, when Christ Jesus and the Angels prohibited that act to no one, except for God alone ... The Apostles or Disciples never kneel down before Christ Jesus including to any Angels from Heaven... but to God (YHWH) alone... Take note:... BOWING DOWN means respect/honor acknowledgment while KNEELING DOWN (Bend knees/Prostrate) means Worship, Veneration, Devotion... unless you are working in the ground like the farmers, plumbers, etc... Facts and Truth of the Matters, Biblically, Historically, and logically speaking... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.

[@camilleespinas2898]

I have a hard time following you sometimes . You speak so fast and the lip smacking and noises throw me off .. otherwise I find your research fascinating and at times mind blowing !

[@TenOnReligion]

Thanks for your comment. This episode is a few years old and the production quality is lower. Maybe the captions can help?

[@haddow777]

Ya, no. You do an okay job debunking an interpretation of what the bible says, but not so much what the bible actually says. For one, this nitpicky word obsession doesn't fit. Yes, the old Hebrew uses a word translated to young woman or young maiden, not the exact word virgin. Still, for one, that doesn't preclude her being a virgin. In fact, the fact that such a word is typically translated to maiden implies virginity. When a bride chooses a friend to stand with her at her wedding, she can choose a maid of honor or a matron of honor. Today, these titles don't mean much anymore, but for most of their existance in the English language, being a maid of honor absolutely implied the girl or woman titled was a virgin, or at least expected to be a virgin. In the English language, there were many different word associations to imply virginity ot lack of virginity. For instance, you would call virgins miss or nonvirgins Mrs. Today we are told this is associated with their marital status, but in history, it was definitely associated with virginal status. As for the or stories of beings also being sons of God's, that doesn't play well with what the bible actually says about Jesus. Not what many religions say about him, but what the bible actually says. The bible doesn't claim God someone had sex with Mary and they had a child together. No, Mary was really nothing more than a surrogate mother. The bible claims that Jesus already existed before his birth as a godlike being. That's another term for angel. It says he have up that existance to come down to Earth and be placed in Marry as a human, to live an actual human existance. The key reason why Mary had to be a virgin, wasn't to fulfill an old prophecy, but was because the entire reason for Jesus coming down to Earth. He had to be a sinless human. He was the new Adam, as such, he had to be like Adam, a sinless human being. Adam, after sinning, was stricken down. The bible doesn't get into specifics how, but from our current day scientific understanding, it strongly implies that a genetic flaw was given to him. A fatal one that was so deeply embedded that he passed it onto all his children. Something our current scientific knowledge tells us is that when a fertilized egg is placed into a woman's womb, it shares non of her DNA. Also, funnily enough, a surrogate can be a virgin mother. It happens today. We just don't call it a miracle. Why the virginity was needed. It had more to do with Jesus being sinless, or in modern terms, perfect, than to just fulfill prophecy. If Joseph had been married to her beforehand, many would have claimed it was simply the birth of two sinful imperfect humans and his status would have been questionable. Also, the bible doesn't claim that while on Earth, Jesus has a deity like Hercules. While it claims he was a sinless human, it only claims he was a human. There are many passages that claim he was more, sure, but that was outside his Earth existance. Before he was born, he was an Angel. When he was raised, it wasn't as a human, but he was given back his original angelic existance. Angels in the Hebrew scriptures were shown all the time appearing in human form, but not actually being humans. That was how Jesus was able to change his appearance after being raised. He was an Angel, or godlike being again. Later, because of his faithful sacrifice, he was elevated above other angels as God assigned authority to him. Authority of kings judge, priest, and god. So, it is true that Jesus post resurrection can be called a god, it is as a title more than a name. In the bible, being a god meant you had power over whether others lived or died. Judges in Israel were rightly titled gods. Jesus is a god in the same way Moses was God. God told Moses he was making him God to Aaron and Pharoah. This meant that God was sending Moses in his name. When Moses spoke, he was speaking what God told him to say and with God's authority to say those things. They were to be taken as if spoken directly by God. Jesus in the bible many times said he spoke, not his words, but the words of his father. Even in his kingly splendor in the book of Revelations, he claims to do and say only the things God commanded him to say and do. The entire reason for Jesue existansr to be a sinless human who died without sin, to balance the scales for Adam's sin. The law stated a life for a life. If someone's innocent life was taken from them, it demanded the price of a life. Still, Jesus had to be born in the promised line. This is why Joseph was still his father. Just because Joseph didn't actually father Jesus, he was legally his father. It fulfilled God's promises to his ancestors. I get that many come to the bible with the idea or it not being inspired already firmly entrenched in ther minds, so all of this will sound like nonsense to them. That is okay. This was merely point out that much more of the bible than they think spoke to Jesus. The man who would bruise the serpent in the head. Abraham's being asked to act our sacrificing his son was a method of conveying to him the import of the cost to God of the promise he was making to him. How, he would bless Abraham's offspring by actually sacrificing his son. Note that angels were also known as sons of God. The later promises to various men down through Israel like to David. How Jesus sinless nature was prophecised by unleavened bread being used at Passover and in sacrifices. Leaven was a symbol of sin. Or the blood used to save the Israelites in Egypt or in sacrifices. Many like to claim it is blood magic, but it actually was just a prophetic symbol of Jesus spilled blood. Even the design of the temple was a prophesy of Jesus. It's physical design was a way of describing man's relationship to God and when Jesus died, the curtain in the temple was torn, showing a change in the nature or man's relationship with God. Jesus as the High Priest of heavenly Jerusalem could freely enter into God's presence as he was sinless unlike all preceeding High Priests. In any event, it was about more than the translation of a single word in an ancient text.

[@lucillebonds2196]

When Archangel Gabriel told Mary that God wanted her to become the Mother of God. He answered the angel how could it be because she knew no man meaning she is a Virgin. Try to understand the words of Scriptures. You don't need to write a useless lengthy argument because the answer is so direct and simple and it's just in the corner of your eyes.

[@alhilford2345]

@haddow777: WOW !!! You have a wild imagination! Very entertaining! But not true!

[@slottibarfast5402]

Mary lied. Did Joseph buy it ? Maybe he thought it might be fun to have a son of god around the house getting free stuff from wise men, turning water into wine, etc. unfortunately for Jesus such talk can create psychological damage to young minds and even though it might work for a time, eventually you will run up against Rome that does not have a sense if humor. Jesus was not the first, and not the last to have divine visions of self. A few slip out of the net and start a new religion.

[@lucillebonds2196]

How could she lie? She never uttered a word to Joseph that she was pregnant. It was through the Angel that Joseph knew of the pregnancy of Mary. So where did she lie? I think you are the liar!!!

[@ionlyemergeafterdark]

Jesus had brothers. That means that even if Jesus was born miraculously Mary did not remain a virgin, assuming that Jesus ever lived which is a topic of debate.

[@lucillebonds2196]

Read Smalcald Articles of Martin Luther in 1571.

[@alhilford2345]

No. Jesus was an only child

[@ionlyemergeafterdark]

@@alhilford2345 There is a lot of text in the NT indicating that Jesus had brothers and sisters. At the very least, he had a brother James. Why do you issue falsehoods? I have read the entire Bible from cover to cover twice.

[@hornplayer1228]

The account of the actual conception establishes that Mary was "overshadowed by the Spirit of a Most High". Modern spiritual teaching reveals that control of Joseph's physical body, while he was in a state of unconsciousness or trance, was taken over by Christ Himself for the purpose of the act of inseminating Mary. This was done with Mary's consent and Joseph subsequently had all his concerns allayed by an Angel. Possession of human bodies, whether by Heavenly spirits or spirits from Satan's realm, was a common place occurrence prior to completion of Christ's Mission of Redemption. Confusion has arisen from efforts to preserve Mary's status of "freedom from original sin" by trying to isolate Her from the sexual act by which everyone enters the physical world. She was a Heavenly Spirit who came into the world for the express purpose of providing the vehicle for Jesus's Mission. She took no part in the Heavenly rebellion against the Kingship of Christ which lead to The Fall and was thus " free from Original Sin."

[@FigRko]

Mary was fully human. One Father and one mother. Soooo…..

[@childrenoflight3010]

If you believe this you are very sick indeed the Christ impregnating His own mother

[@_whataday_3231]

This is so incorrect. Please seek clarity from God in regards to this topic..

[@pnakogee55]

It's inverant whats important us Hesus. Even though Jesus has brothers and sisters and have also half brothers. Why we came from the creator. Your God made us by dirt before we get dirt. We wete angles thats Why Jesus say we will be angeks and sibs and daughters of God only after you die. In Indian belueve we are already sins and daughters of our creator Our father and only true father give us each a plan. Your bible are not translated properly to English and Jesus is not white. He's a Jew.