Was Meister Eckhart Christian?

[@yamlau-gx7nx]

Thank you for this very lucid and beautiful exposition

[@goodtothinkwith]

You’re quite welcome!! 🙏🏻

[@thebaryonacousticoscillati5679]

It does seem to me that we have lost a lot of thoughtfulness with the casting out of medieval views on quite a lot of topics. The Renaissance/"Enlightenment" has a lot to answer for...

[@goodtothinkwith]

Yes indeed… we’ve had two rebirths of Greek and Roman thought. Perhaps it’s time for a renaissance of the Renaissance!

[@yamlau-gx7nx]

Thanks!

[@goodtothinkwith]

Thank you!! 🙏🏻

[@GGTutor1]

I have often been unsure about calling myself a Christian for the exact reasons you describe. A friend of mine who is a Christian recently challenged me on this saying that mysticism is counter to a belief in Christ. Christianity means very little to me without mysticism and seems to pervade all the teachings and story of Christ.

[@thebaryonacousticoscillati5679]

Your friend seems a little confused, methinks...

[@chowyee5049]

Depends on what you mean by mysticism. Miracles are necessary to even be called Christian (Resurrection, Virgin Birth, etc). Pentecostals are essentially just Protestant mystics.

[@phillipadams4691]

Mysticism is seeking a living union with God. Meaning to find divine oneness in this life. It's not so much about unusual or supernatural beliefs, rituals or practices. It's about the realization that you, as consciousness, are already with God.

[@chowyee5049]

@@phillipadams4691 if that's your definition then yes, mysticism would be counter to Christianity since Christianity is about being transformed into God's likeness which means that we are not already one with God.

[@phillipadams4691]

@@chowyee5049 What is God's likeness?

[@MinnesotanMysticism]

Amazing video per usual!

[@goodtothinkwith]

Thank you!! 🙏🏻

[@MinnesotanMysticism]

@@goodtothinkwith no sir!! Thank YOU! 🙏🕺

[@Yaddlezap]

I'd like to hear what you have to say about The Cloud of Unknowing

[@goodtothinkwith]

It’s funny you should say that. I’ve had that work in my queue for some time now as a topic that I want to discuss. I’ll put a star by it and see if I can move it up. I make the videos when I feel like I have my mind around the topics and I’m not leaving too many things hanging. I still feel like I have more research that needs to be done with the Cloud

[@TempehLiberation]

Great video, I'm a fan of Eckhart and Schopenhauer - I tend to fall more on the side of Schopenhauer most days honestly. I really enjoyed how you gave him a grin btw, nice touch lol.

[@goodtothinkwith]

Haha, I’m so glad someone else enjoyed that! I thought it was funny since he’s known for being dour and pessimistic. Thanks!!

[@gw2623]

I read Aquinas stating that his straw comment about his writings after a presumed epiphany was commentary on the inadequacy of words to capture the ineffable. To suggest Eckhart was not Christian is to come too close to saying the Beatitudes, for example, have no relevance. Would not the Beatitudes, for example, be instructional/confirming, at least in part, the perception of divine unity...how ever short the narrative might be to the direct experience? Can the experience of Divine Unity itself become an idol? Truly could any experience of God be complete and full? If the instruments of the faith are not useful how does one live during the dessert times when God seems in far off land, and these due occurr even for the mystic. Saying Eckhart was not Christian from a institutional Christian theology I understand. I think though it may cause more harm than good.

[@koanforty]

Beautifully discussed. Many thanks.

[@goodtothinkwith]

You are quite welcome, thank you!

[@thebaryonacousticoscillati5679]

Another superb talk. Many thanks x

[@goodtothinkwith]

Thank you so much - I’m glad you enjoyed it!

[@trlough]

So for Eckhart is the transcendent One the Trinity? Or is the Trinity the God of creatures that’s we’re supposed to transcend?

[@sheenapearse766]

Stimulating discussion , trying to reconcile childish sentimentality ( unconditional acceptance ) with esotericism ( God as no thing ) ie rather a presence or energy to be received / experienced . Paradoxically Hume as an empiricist was an atheist , presumably because he had no spiritual experience ( ie did not ask / seek /knock on the door) . The old testament is full of examples of an unseen or incogniti anthropomorphic deity who loves and hates the inchoate by arbitrary predestined sovereign choice ( Jacob I have loved , Esau I hate ) - ? condemning/ malice afore thought - contrasted with eternal love and forgiveness (eg seventy times seven )of the Gospel . How to reconcile ? It has been said ‘ Religion is dogma , faith is experience ‘ . Maybe different stories and a progression of understandings are required for different levels of maturity / age , and the Bible needs to be understood in a more allegorical way as a spiritual conflict of good vs evil . I am pretty sure God is not Batman , but my grandson has a poster on his bedroom wall saying “Always try and be yourself , but if you can’t be yourself , be Batman .” I am pretty sure Eckhart and Aquinas are ‘ on the money’ when trying to understand the Truth of Jesus teachings about ‘ the Kingdom of Heaven ‘ . “The way to heaven , is Heaven “ ( Catherine of Sienna ) Thanks

[@goodtothinkwith]

You’re quite welcome - glad you enjoyed it! I suspect you’re right that Hume didn’t have spiritual experience…

[@jacobmathan856]

Excellent

[@goodtothinkwith]

Thank you! 🙏🏻

[@billyoumans1784]

This seems exactly right to me

[@thebaryonacousticoscillati5679]

Frankly, most people do appear to have a childish sentimentality about these things, or should I say most of the people who seem to sound off about their Christianity in all those "evangelical" ways...

[@goodtothinkwith]

Exactly

[@kfwimmer]

Excellent! Super Excellent

[@goodtothinkwith]

Thank you my friend! 🙏🏻

[@davidgordon7717]

Regarding Huston Smiths comment:Jesustaught that”salvation”depended on one becoming as a “child again”. I presume emptying ourselves of accumulated adult conceptions and entering into a state of worshipful wonderment and Joy in living.

[@goodtothinkwith]

We might think of an even younger child, younger still until you are just born. What would that mean? We can do the same thing with Nietzsche to arrive at a more interesting situation with the camel-lion-child metamorphoses

[@SolveEtCoagula93]

I would partly agree with you, BUT I think you need to go further. Even concepts such as, 'worshipful wonderment' and 'joy in living' are images that need to be dropped. EVERY concept, image, idea and thought that you hold, needs to be dropped. If you can think it - it needs to go!

[@davidgordon7717]

@@SolveEtCoagula93 thank you for your comment to which I agree. This whole business of a personal kenosis is a lifetimes work!

[@SolveEtCoagula93]

@@davidgordon7717 Isn't it just! Travel well.

[@davidwestwater2219]

😢 He wrote a book called the imitation of christ where he makes constant.References to christ and quote scripture over and over again. I guarantee you eckhart, never told anyone he wasn't a Christian

[@goodtothinkwith]

You may be thinking of someone else with that book

[@krisbluesjay]

The party is getting rough:))))

[@goodtothinkwith]

My rhetoric may be surprising, new and unusual 😉

[@krisbluesjay]

@@goodtothinkwith carry on, Brother

[@contemplativepursuits]

Brilliant ❤

[@trunkshatake7407]

He was definitely a Christian just not a fundamentalist and relied on experience over dogma

[@minayowitz3268]

A very relevant question to ask regarding fellow Eckhart with a clear answer. Definitely not a Christian but another heretic again reinstating some of the basic principles of gnosticism. I lost count of how many intellectual figures have been given a pass as Christians while in fact working for the other team. It is reality a knowledge of Christianity that illuminates philosophy and not the other way around. Take that from a former atheist and philosophy graduate.

[@TheYopogo]

Would you not say that the groups which we now retrospectively call Gnostics are Christian? They certainly would have considered themselves Christian, and the orthodox doctrine which they violate hadn't formed yet.

[@Chase_Istre]

Eckhart defintely had nothing to do with Gnosticism in its actual term and practice. He was a Catholic who was influened by theologians like St Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, etc. Please do know about Gnostic thought before labelling such a title just because of a more mystical approach. This approach indeed was central in many early Christian thinkers and sects (Orthodox, Desert Fathers, Saintly figures, Origen, Symeon the new Theologian, etc etc.)

[@minayowitz3268]

@@Chase_Istre So the author of the video, correctly in my opinion, states that Eckhart was not a Christian. Yet you labelled him a "Catholic". I guess you judge a book by his cover. He was no Christian and yet held a fundamental principle of Gnosticism. It is a fact that Gnosticism, which shares an intimate relationship with Hermeticism, has been the "de facto" counter philosophy opposed to Christianity that many western thinkers throughout the centuries have sponsored, cleverly disguising it in one form or another in their pointless ramblings. A paramount example of this is Spinoza. Hegel also held many gnostic and hermeticist beliefs and these two philosophies infuse what we know today as woke culture, aka cultural Marxism. Take a look at James Lindsey channel and get educated on the matter. At the moment you only know half of the story.

[@atmanbrahman1872]

No.

[@amyapplegate4356]

Wierd gasping noise. Breath through your nose.

[@tjlangley222]

Well thanks, now I cant listen and not hear that sound....😂

[@goodtothinkwith]

Haha. Thanks for letting me know. That’s probably the compressor I’m using to make the audio relatively even and around the same volume as KZbin’s ads 😜… I’ll have to tweak my settings and make sure I’m suppressing the breathing noises

[@jamesstevenson7725]

No. He was never a christian in any way. Jesus would not consider him a christian