Was StarrTile Right??? --- Shower Curb Failure

[@michaelfahim5878]

Takes a big man to admit when he was wrong, mad respect.

[@MrPainterSC]

?

[@txmade4371]

Ehhh

[@fabiandaroca]

Man you don't know just how much these video's help and educate us before making decisions about bathroom remodeling.

[@MrTooTechnical]

I will say that once the mortor bed / pan is wet, it ain’t ever drying out. The whole thing (bed) is surrounded by things that don’t allow drying. So even if the weeps holes are clear and free, it won’t matter. Making sure water never touches the mortar bed is key. That is why Schluter systems and similar systems, have absolutely no way of holding water cuz everything is foam or plastic. They can still leak, but each component is guaranteed never to hold water. More stabila. Thanks again for the vid.

[@MrTooTechnical]

I can assure you that once a dry pack is wet, it will never dry.

[@russelljochim8607]

Only way to dry out is to remove a small area around drain and let dry, then after reinstalling Mudbed and tile, seal the grout and epoxy paint grout to prevent anymore water from entering mudbed.

[@scooterrockets7815]

Agreed. In truth, there is no reason to have cementitious products in the shower these days, period. Too many other better choices.

[@MrTooTechnical]

Hmmmm

[@bigdog4574]

What’s funny to me is that when I first started seeing these showers built I wondered WTF are the contractors doing… the water will wick up the curb and the wall… how is this not being addressed.!!! Thank you for finally addressing this!

[@5es100]

I tested many products over 10 years, I took cardboard boxes and waterproofed them according to manufacturers specs with drains. Filled them with water and put them on a shelf in my warehouse. Redgaurd and schluter never leaked for years (cardboard had no moisture). But remember that moisture vapor is extremely high in a shower on a daily basis and water is always looking for a way out.

[@kaboom362]

Good on ya Issac, for giving props to Starr Tile. Bob D knows his stuff!

[@TileCoach]

One of the reasons our world is so jacked up right now is that we are afraid to see any truth coming from people with whom we don't agree with.

[@jlatnyc]

Love respect you show to other KZbinrs. You're a class act brother.

[@joefowler3106]

I've completely switched over to bonding flange drains for all my showers for this very reason. It's so easy for the weep holes to get clogged and things go south from there. I also agree in doing brick/block curbs instead of wood. 🤙

[@TileCoach]

Good job Joe... FloFX rocks!!!

[@johnperkins630]

I wholeheartedly agree, too many dam failures on wood for me to ever think about using it again. Brick is the way I roll now or form it out of mud. Forming it does add an extra day so its only for custom curbs.

[@Tacompton425]

@@johnperkins630 When time critical can build curb with kerdi board or use pre-built curb.

[@holdernewtshesrearin5471]

Yep. Masonry curbs are the latest refinement to my shower system. Ive poured solid curbs a couple times and ive used bricks a couple times over the years. And clogged weep holes is why i use a liquid waterproofing membrane system ON TOP OF the shower slope bed. I honestly just cant understand why anyone would do it any other way. Theres no wicking up backer board, no saturation and precipitation of your shower pan bed, no pre-slope, post-slope or slope-slope issues. And no effluence to clog the drain weep holes. You can use whatever cement based slope bed you like and the only requirement for it is that it has 1/4" slope per 12" of linear space and is stable and has enough compressive strength to support the tile work and a couple of occupants . Other than that it just doesnt matter because, the ONE PIECE waterproof membrane is applied above it and runs from the drain to the top of the tilework. No water will ever reach beneath the membrane to the shower slope bed so its never saturated. The backer board is completely isolated and sealed off from water intrusion too so theres no concern of wicking. And you can use a standard 3-piece drain or a bonding flange drain , whichever you prefer with no concern of clogged weep holes or of water creeping past a liner. And it can be completed in as little as 8 hours or an absolute max of 12 hours from the application of the first coat until ready for overnight leak test, which btw, ive NEVER had one fail. You can lay tile the morning of the 2nd day or by the morning of the 3rd day max. So its either the same as those sheet membrane systems which WILL fail and leak unless you also apply liquid waterproofing to the seams or worse case scenario it takes an additional half to full day with all but guaranteed success and peace of mind that affords. Thats worth an extra day imo. Its like a fiberglass boat hull versus a wooden boat made of many pieces, each one requiring careful fitting and sealant. Why would you do it any other way? I really cant understand why other systems even exist. To each his own i suppose but for me ill stick with what works and i trust. Never had a failure in 17 years. About 100 or more showers done. Ive renovated a handful of them after 9 to 15 years and each one was as perfect as when first completed. Whether Redgard, Aquadefense, Hydroban or whatever your brand, liquid waterproofing membrane systems are the ONLY way to go imo.

[@holdernewtshesrearin5471]

@@johnperkins630 - just make it in advance. Keep some laying around cured. Cut to fit.

[@73er-xy3ky]

Great video issac . Thank you for keeping it real, and spreading honesty to us all. I really like that you also gave a ballpark price. I feel a lot of people on the tube are so secretive about that and not sure why.

[@avrgmatty]

Ill be installing a tile shower soon(home DIY). your videos have helped immensely about how too and what not to do. Ill have my KZbin Certification soon 🤣

[@jordanpoor8006]

It’s not too bad just get a good clean demo plum and square your framing have a plumber do the liner and drain and then just durarock and waterproofing and mortar bed then who cares what your tile looks like you’re the one doing it lmao just make sure you have a proper slope to the drain

[@RawTakes]

good luck. your gonna need it lol

[@jwar2163]

Material Cost are high at the moment. Hyro Ban 3 x 5 boards times 5 each plus strata mat and 4 tubes of laticrete sealant and Roll water proofing band cost me 950.99 at Desoto tile supply here in California. Tile was even up there from Floor and Deco

[@christiannavas9792]

This guy is all of us here at KZbin university

[@dustyflair]

@@RawTakes YOU DAMN RIGHT! If everyone could do showers, well........

[@A.Martin]

I'm just so happy everywhere I have lived have had plastic or stainless steel trays.

[@Casmige]

Your video contact is great but I gave this one a thumb up because of how you treated StarrTile.

[@hayabusaboy21ls]

Hey Isaac! Love the vids man. I'm a carpenter by trade but your vids have helped a lot with my work in my own house 🤙🏻

[@peterkohm9742]

You do a fantastic job explaining the right and wrong way to approach each issue . Thank you.

[@caleballeman8779]

Glad to see StarrTile was right about something. After seeing his video about Ditra I basically stopped watching the channel because I feel like he didn't want to fairly evaluate the product. Just wanted to do things his way and reject anything newer.

[@80Ragincajun]

I agree, I watched both channels. But after all the complaining he does and shot he takes at Tile coach. Also his way is best no if ands or buts. Star just refuses to to hear or listen to anyone. Just a piss poor attitude

[@richardvoyageur]

Yeah, even if he's right(99% of the time he's not), his attitude is so poor that no one will listen anyway.

[@margaretbear]

@fartpoobox ohyeah Oh man, I wish you were right. I just redid one of the bathrooms in my house (built in 1967) original tile, tub with shower. One of the walls was COMPLETELY rotted out - load bearing outside wall no less. Years and years of water seeping through the grout - you could see the curve in the studs of the arc of the water. I would rather have too much waterproofing than find that mess behind a wall again.

[@Stevesbe]

You notice he doesn't really show his own tile work?

[@80Ragincajun]

@@Stevesbe yep!!

[@cwilliams6884]

Another great video and i’ve been needing a new pair of truewerk pants. Your code saved me $20. Thank you sir!

[@TileCoach]

Thanks!

[@VanessaLucatero]

Great vides, I agree 100% percent about the drain holes being plugged up and the water weeping up the shower pan. But I don’t think that was the real problem. I personally think the water came from out side of the the shower pan. I think it would be good practice to extend the hotmop 12” inches beond the outside of the curve. I have kids and their shower is a puddle on the outside every time they shower and it caused dry rot. It would be cool if you did a sample curve with the hotmop beond the curve. Keep up the good videos👌🏼

[@valechico]

Nice video, seeing you pull the tile apart i never once noticed any remains of red guard or any other type of water proofing. Isn't the purpose of using red guard on shower walls and mortar bed to prevent moisture from seeping in and damaging the whole thing? Am I missing something here?

[@ericcapucci9869]

in my region central oregon we use pan liners no hotmop ive never had an issue with wicking 43 yrs but i always make sure the weep holes are open it being one of the most important draining components.

[@gar6454]

Best to have a sill stone on top of the curb, instead of tile

[@kennycrook8224]

Brick curb, and pre-slope the top of the curb. I cut about a 3/4” strip of backer board thinset it to the outside of the curb and screed thinset on the top. Let it dry then do pan liner over that. So water that gets into the curb drains into pan. I do the same thing on windows niches etc.

[@peterjg001]

Starrtile is an AMAZING tiler and shower builder. I have the utmost confidence in Bob.

[@Stevesbe]

Lol

[@amattson6578]

Never build curbs from lumber over a slab. I dont like using lumber for curbs ever. Over time even if the 2x4s arent pressure treated they can warp and swell up which will compromise the waterproofing and mortar over it. Thats probably the main issue here.

[@chrisbukowski2431]

Daaaaaang! Look at TileCoach having the extra money to pay a camera guy ONSITE! 👏🏻

[@devilious123]

Price of repair/ shower reno is spot on. I'm here down in Canada. If you hiring reputable highly skilled tiler/contractor price is right. I warranty my work for 25+yrs. 95% of companies out there give you only 2-5yr warranty max

[@harrisclarkson6584]

Starrtile is the man! Your videos are great too.

[@OnkyoGrady]

This happened in our downstairs bathroom. A ramped shower entry created a bridge of thinset and concrete over the curb and out under the bathroom floor tile. The water damage first showed on sheetrock outside of the bathroom entirely.

[@mram7715]

In all fairness, if startile isn’t having any issues with his build, why should he change anything he’s doing? Good vid

[@DK_tk3]

I mean star tile also doesn’t contact the cement board to the pan. So it keeps the moisture in the pan.

[@HandSaversUSA]

Let's start with the top of the curb, use a sill instead of tile. After all, grout is the weakest part of the installation so eliminating all those joints will ensure longevity.

[@PoisonJarl71501]

Love this video. Great detail and explanation of what can and did go wrong. People underestimate the value of knowing what mistakes can lead to, not just how to do it right. Appreciate you leaving that pricing in as well. Helps small guys like me know I’m severely underpricing. Would love to see what you do and charge with this project if you get started on it.

[@jacknimble1]

I had the same thoughts that I am under pricing my builds as well, especially with my attention to detail and location. Thanks tilecoach for actually talking numbers which I rarely hear you do.

[@silverandblack9242]

that’s why i only use abs drains and i always use plenty of pebbles at weep holes. i also always preslope ( idiot starr tile doesn’t ) and never trust anyones hotmop. Pan liner myself or i won’t do it

[@bretburt7317]

Great explanation. I didn't think the weep holes would clog over time from efflorescence alone. Lesson learned, that's why I watch your videos. Do you have a link to a video where, within code, you are able to only take out the bottom row of tile and still tie into the existing waterproofing? I've been told by multiple inspectors that if the original design was building paper, etc. (for the wall water proofing) code requires a 2" horizontal overlap - sealant wouldn't pass an inspection. I've had more than one tile contractor tell me they can't see how that would be possible with full float walls. To much damage would be done at demo. Cement board is a different story but I didn't run into that very often when the floor was dry-pack over a hot-mop. Usually the walls were floated.

[@bryanbenson6551]

Why not maintain those older system weep holes by popping the drain grate and screw out the weep holes with a 90 degree drill bit adapter? Hopefully, newer drains don't have these kinds of issues, as 10 years or so go by.

[@dustyflair]

dude, you need to invent that....hell of an idea....

[@BlahBlahManYeah]

Weep holes will clog no mater how large they will be. Scale will develop in them over time and create a barrier.

[@jameslydon3314]

I know the rates will be higher in California than where I'm at in Washington but 13-15 grand for a simple shower replacement seems outrageous.

[@ssl3546]

If you estimate a workman costs $1000 a day that's about a week of work with 2-3 guys, plus a few thousand for materials, totally reasonable. If you want a plastic shower from Costco that could be done for $1000 in labor.

[@jordanpoor8006]

Down here in Florida that’s not too far out there for a full remodel but some shower only renovations can be done for 5k but at the end of the day you don’t want your contractor feeling rushed to get the job done just to make a slim profit margin because it’ll show in the work

[@franknavarro8143]

I work in the Seattle area and those numbers quoted are in line with what I would charge.

[@TileCoach]

Heavy glass door alone eats up $2500!

[@AussieInSeattle]

@@franknavarro8143 do you work with schluter products? I have roughin plumbing done to fit their linear drain. In kenmore

[@robertjoines2607]

I didn't notice a pan liner over the curb, it looked like only tar paper and then the mortar. Am I wrong?

[@danklayum4808]

How about a good quality fiberglass shower pan ????

[@wayofthekodiak3118]

Nothing wrong with that. It's personal preference.

[@ridenorthwest1687]

Support the fiberglass pan well because the flex causes caulking to crack commonly.

[@jayishere74]

Yep! We tear out wood curb, hot mopped showers all of the time. This is why I completely 100% refuse to use wood on my curbs. Brick or foam only. Water will find a way! Starr tile is still an idiot lol. I also like to run low density foam around the perimeter of my pans against the bottom plate because wood WILL expand.

[@vicbrunner4834]

I agree. Starr tile is an idiot.

[@wallysworkin823]

Doesn’t matter what it’s made of, if it’s not waterproof it ain’t lasting.

[@juanherrera2859]

The boss versus the guy doing the work. Something we can all relate to no matter what your job is.

[@donaldadams4713]

Another great video Isaac. I am currently renovating one of my bathrooms using the traditional method but will cover the entire shower/ curb with red guard (or something similar). I like the new methods/ products. problem is they are very expensive and I am on a tight budget. It’s why I’m doing the work myself and why I watch yours and other videos about proper methods. Thanks again

[@BlahBlahManYeah]

Liquid membrane applied with reinforcement fiber mesh at plane changes used in conjunction with commonly available cement boards allows to build very robust shower on budget. Fiber mesh reinforcement will control contraction at plane changes. Contractors prefer foam as this is less labor and helps to maintain good pace. DYI usually has more time at their disposal to deal with intricate aspects of fitting cement boards, reinforcing seams, allow cure time and etc.

[@donaldadams4713]

@@BlahBlahManYeah Agreed

[@jeffdana9402]

I did the same as you, to save money. I had to buy 3 buckets of Red Guard, which is expensive. Had I known how expensive (& amount needed) the Red Guard was going to be, I would have thought about spending up on the Schluter (no red guard needed).

[@JCC56]

For this exact reason, I went with foam shower pan. Tired of the shower curb water damage/wood rot.

[@travisk5589]

I have come to the conclusion that excessive mold/mildew in the grout of the shower floor is a tell tale sign of clogged weep holes. Damp mortar causes damp grout and makes for happy mildew.

[@johnperkins630]

I will never buy Carhardt again. Thank you for an alternative.

[@tomtillman]

Seems unbelievable that it could have ever been done this way. A technique that allows the dry pack to become saturated just from clogged weep holes? We've come a long way in how to build showers.

[@robertkemp9685]

Seems very optimistic to me to clad a 2x4 in just adhesive, tile and grout and hope for it to stay water tight for more than a month.

[@paulness8352]

Bought a house with a tiled in shower stell, i knew it was going to be a problem when i saw no grout in the joints. Once i saw staining on the floor, i tore it out. Turns out the install was so bad, this exact same thing happened. The curb wood was saturated. The backerboard was sqturqted because it sat in the shower panand wicked up watwr. Nothing was waterproofed; no membrane, no nothing. The previous owner wouldnt disclose the age of e shower, but id say less than 8 years. Maybe even 6. But it was such a bad job, i cant even describe it. Good news is, i get a brand new shower that will be installed correctly, waterproofing and all.

[@rpaasse6453]

Wheap holes? Never heard of it, learned something new.

[@leeboriack8054]

As much as I loved tile shower pans, solid cast acrylic or fiberglass shower pans are pretty good proof.

[@turboflush]

Thats crazy. Thanks for sharing. I never knew there were suposed to be pebbles. I not a contractor.

[@tommynguyen8942]

I’ve never really trusted the water in water out system due to the weep holes potentially getting clogged either with calcium or mildew. We have hard water up here in western NY. I ordered two of the flo-fx from your website and I can’t wait to use them! I’ve been going with the bounding flange for some times now and tie it all in with hydroban topical membrane.

[@RaulCojocariu]

Man you guys are the next level in pricing there in Cali, and i don't mean it as in your company, I'm talking in general! i thought Vancouver prices are expensive! LOL. Maybe ill move to California and continue business!! Great video.

[@ef2967]

Im in cali and we charge 5-6 k with customer supplying tile and door. This guy is way out of line for a shower.

[@avelinodalmeida351]

Great information Sir 👍 👌

[@williamadair1327]

30 years at it and not once have I ever come across a curb built from wood that hasn't failed.

[@petersweeney5777]

Some guy said he poured a concrete curb/step……you thoughts?

[@williamadair1327]

@@petersweeney5777 So long as the pan is vertical and relatively centered it works. whether it's monolithic or a cold union doesn't matter. most of the old schoolers dry-pack.

[@ef2967]

Wtf? 13k are you kidding?

[@jheiny1231]

​@williamadair1327 rubber membrane liner. Wrapped over the wood curb. Then sloped mortar bed.. u will never have this type of problem. As long as u leak test the rubber liner. All this extra stuff people be using is a head scratcher.

[@williamadair1327]

@@jheiny1231 True, testing the pan before and after tile board is installed can catch issues however, folks tend to use fasteners (nails or screws) to fasten the tile board which is an inevitable fail. I am a bit biased as I was fortunate enough to be trained in the old school methods ie; lots of concrete. Pain in the body but man, Lasts forever! or at least for a generation or two. Thank you for the discourse.

[@danperales5804]

Have you used the kbrs system? I need to install a system that lasts.

[@e978]

I’ve been watching these failure videos and i have to say that America is light years behind Finland concerning drains, know-how and bathroom/wet area codes.

[@disklamer]

American construction is just weird. They use these complicated expensive systems that seem to invariably fail in even more expensive ways. We use the simplest shit here in NL, cement and tiles, and stuff's good for half a century. The goofy roundabout ways they do stuff is just fascinating.

[@Chris11249]

Yup. We are just now starting to mitre corners and use epoxy lol. Europe they've been doing it for like 8-10 years

[@jasonl7937]

@@disklamer I’m curious. What is the standard in Europe. Any videos you recommend?

[@e978]

Actually in Finland we have most strict codes concerning bathrooms and generally building codes entire world. Just to make one bathroom (all area of the bathroom need to be waterproofed , not only the shower and there must be slopes toward to the drain entire bathrooms floor) properly acording the codes takes here about 6-10 weeks. We have been doing this with these ”new” codes almost 24 years already and codes just recently were updated.

[@e978]

Here is 7 years old manufacturers (Kiilto) video part one. Kiilto is okay product but my company uses Ardex 8+9 LW waterproofing system. Principal is almost the same in bith systems but there is small difrences between the systems. You will get general idea. There is no english version from this video sorry about that.

[@alexmanns9658]

There has been recent studies were the weep holes become obstructed by efflorescence and minerals over time.

[@BigdogLarry]

Why is there no vinyl waterproofing over the curb? 🤔

[@mikedreamski3207]

Morning Tile Coach- was wondering if u ever do any jobs videos on installing tile on an exterior wall of a home? Thanks so much for all the information... thank you from your friends and fans in the Bay Area!!!!

[@slayerspam]

I have deep respect for what you're doing here 😌

[@christianmendez6046]

So what happened with Starr Tile

[@Zion-Bear]

They didn’t waterproof over the mortar?

[@scottwalton658]

Doesn't look like there was redguard or any water proofing on those 2x4s? Would that have prevented this as well. Also ensuring slope toward the shower pan on the curb?

[@vajona2495]

Which sealant(s) to use? specifically. Brand, product number, etc

[@titusnjagi4668]

hi watching from kenya love what you i do what you do love it.

[@toddr.4630]

What happened to my trade 😞 ,, I can trace it to "backer board" ,,, hardy board, (durock,, permabase) ect. It was ALL downhill from there 😫

[@russelljochim8607]

I’m still amazed how different tile costs range from west coast to East coast, us East coasters are slaving for pennys out here, while Tile Coach can charge 13,000 for a shower redo! We need a labor union or something to keep labor cost fair and consistent out here, because there won’t be any legitimate installers here who will want to carry on this art, because there isn’t any money out here to keep people interested in making tile work their profession…it’s so crazy but true!! Keep it up, glad to see tile work is appreciated out there and hopefully tides change and it can be same out B here as well.

[@noslenac]

Tile Coach can charge 13k for a shower redo because of the reputation and he could charge those prices in any state because of it. He has the ability to target his desired customers. Tile companies without the reputation can't charge that and allows lower budget homeowners to still have the ability to get work done. Labor unions would make the problem worse for home owners. They don't take into account location and it forces higher prices for potentially less quality work.

[@davidtorres9273]

Tile couch. I use wire lath and rap the curb, is that how its supposed to be done?

[@chadharrigan68]

It's without a doubt that the only way to go when installing a shower curb, bench, or ponywall is to use block, in my opinion. Wood products in a shower build are to be used as sparingly as possible. Obviously a single family environment will most likely be built with wood studs. When it comes to multifamily inviroments that have multiple floors steel studs are used, and that's even better. Local codes may vary on what type of materials can be used in multifamily depending on how many floors. Usually, cast iron drains and steel studs are the common materials used in those types of environments that are over a certain amount of floors. Block is still a recommended material to use even in a singal family environment....As a contractor in AZ, Palm Springs & LasVegas for past 25 years, block is the only material we use in a shower environment & multifamily environment.

[@ArmChairKoalaBare]

JUST HYDROBAN...DONE FOR 20 YEARS EASY.

[@angoramarble4630]

do you realize how many jobs he does staright up fails after about 2 years? i have been in business for over 15 years and have maybe had one leak in a shower, its just not normal for almost eery job to fail roughly aroudn the same time. he must be doing something wrong and doing it over and over again

[@KingSobieski]

Bob knows what's up

[@TrashyLobster]

Correct me if I’m wrong, when the grout cracks then water gets behind the tile. So did the expansion and contraction from the 2x4’s cause the cracking? What causes the 2x4 ‘s to "move" in the 1st place?

[@BestiaProductions]

Question guys. Should I tile my shower curb first or should I tile the walls first and the curb at the end? Thanks!

[@yorkrojas1452]

Amazing!! Great Job!!

[@davidribeca1745]

If your correct that great news. Did you flood test this shower prior to disabling it? Was the shower door a factor in the water damage? It's hard to tell from the tv was the curb cement wet on top? Or just down low on the exterior of the shower. I would suspect a pan leak if the cement on top of the curb was not wet because the weep holes were plugged and the pan would fill up!

[@jmlcolorado]

Issac, I’m curious to know what your take on the life span of a shower should be. This one appears to be 15 years old right? How long should someone expect a shower to last? 20 years? 30 years? 5-0 years?

[@tnrcleancare7847]

I think 8-10 years is reasonable if you ask me. Im a a tile guy. 8 years solid of daily use no issue is good. However you want to shoot for " it goes out style before it fails "

[@jmlcolorado]

@@tnrcleancare7847 that seems like a reasonable expectation. Seems things go in and out of style rather quick these days.

[@silverandblack9242]

15 years plus low end 30 years plus high end

[@amattson6578]

If tile is installed correct it can last the life of the homeowner and beyond. Its just a matter of it going out of style. Ive tore out old mud/lathe showers that were done in the 1960s and they were still extremely solid and perfectly flat. The grout might need to be repaired down the road but tile/mortar should last! There are marble jobs in historic buildings that have been around for centuries! Now as far as how many years all the new technology will last remains to be seen. No one knows for certain if a kerdi shower will hold up 30 plus years.

[@tomtillman]

Till the house sees a bulldozer.

[@juancastellanos1209]

Star tile says weepholes don't get clogged ,and doesn't matter if they do

[@rainmaker3700]

I feel like counting on wheeep holes to do their job after years will always eventually fail. They are going to eventually rust and close up. A shower is a humid environment, warm water running down the drain on a cold cast iron shower drain will always cause condensation and oxidation of any metal material.

[@Mr.Pop0]

Yep, i abandoned those drains for the flowfx bonded drains

[@tracybrooks215]

Hell yeah I like those work pants, are they cooler in the hot months compared to Carhartt?

[@ridenorthwest1687]

Depends on what carhartts you're wearing but they are cooler than the heavy canvas ones for sure.

[@Nrl_Renovations]

Tell that man to demo that shower and redo it. Also you can definitely do that for 9 bands bro lol basic tile. Did you see his face when you gave that price 😁😁

[@bobbys2160]

In another video you made you show your wall board all the way to the bottom and your deck mud filled in around the wall board. Is this acceptable using a different drain system (schulter etc) and using roll on membrane? Or should you build the deck then add the wall board leaving a gap and a flexible sealant?

[@patrickhughes7302]

Was there stone around the drain to protect the weep holes? It does not look like it.

[@vidaliasoleil2714]

When did they start using wooden baseboards in bathrooms? Why not use tile?

[@sergiozapata3973]

What materials you use to build a shower curve on a slab bathroom instead of wood?

[@metalhead1270]

Hey Isaac I had a question for you I think it might have been answered I'm not positive but I have a traditional shower system with a pan liner I tore it out last weekend it was covered in water due to the fact they put little rocks around the drain I'm going to be putting it back together this weekend I was going to go with the traditional pan liner because I did not know if you could switch to a complete sealed method without tearing out the whole shower or if there was a way to use the pain liner and still use a complete silk method if you could write me back and let me know your opinion on that and your expertise or if there are other people out there that would see my post and would be willing to give me a hand or advice about it it was identically like the shower you just showed that was filled with water thank you for your videos they are very helpful I've done a lot of time but never built a shower base been a helper on them before

[@AresGodOWar]

Even normal tap , spring and even filtered water creates that white deposit. It's why I have to clean out my coffee maker once a month with vinegar on the clean setting , it gets all that white stuff in it and clogs it up.

[@renaissanceman8581]

But Starr’s being correct is moot. All his showers would fail due to the fact that he refuses to do a pre slope. After I heard that the guy has been 🤡 status.

[@k.d.8924]

If water is wicking up and over the curb, how exactly is the pre slope supposed to help?

[@renaissanceman8581]

@@k.d.8924 because, the water wouldn’t be sitting and saturating the pan to works it way to wick over the curb if there was a preslope. Trying to dispel a water in water out system is exhausting. When done properly they will outlast the bathroom. It’s failure is from poor execution of simple task. Preslope/ keeping weep holes clear of the mud pack/ proper slope/ don’t puncture the vinyl liner. Pretty simple stuff. Apparently not for all. Have fun painting your showers.

[@5es100]

Tar paper? Are you joking? Who built this?

[@khgriffi]

the pre-slope does next to nothing when the pan is filled with deck mud. water isn’t going to travel down the slope, it will be absorbed by the mud. the dispelling of the water is mainly accomplished through capillary action. star tile proved this already.

[@renaissanceman8581]

@@khgriffi you quoting startard is already enough evidence for me that you will believe anyone that uses a few big scientific words with no real knowledge of the application. Preslopes work. Water in and out systems work. But the few steps required for them to work must be followed. Have fun painting your showers. Have a good one.

[@jlatnyc]

Maybe a solid piece of marble or quartz for the master bathroom curb too.

[@Mychannel-jp6yi]

Do you do the pan or walls first?

[@lucasgarcia2508]

Why is the curb getting saturated with water in the first place that is the issue

[@the382house]

The weep holes are for real. I had them pass so many mineral salts (efflorescence) that they clogged a 2" cast iron trap.

[@traylorkarttech4432]

What about solid foam curb on a slab? Or just pour a concrete curb?

[@petersweeney5777]

Going to try concrete curb wish me luck

[@jbitile8241]

Good stuff keep up the good work

[@bryanbenson6551]

Holy moly...$5,000 to replace the shower floor, curb, and first row of tile? My 5 x 5 showers altogether barely break $5,000! Granted, I'm in MI and he's in Cali...is it really that much different across the country?? Maybe I'm too cheap!! lol

[@jmlcolorado]

I think it’s a bit of both. You’re cheap, and he’s in Cali. 🤣 I’d be in the $15-17k range in colorado too for a complete full rebuild.

[@amattson6578]

Its the area and the cost of the real estate. I live in SC. Average houses are around 250k. Trust me..NOBODY will pay 15k to have a shower installed in a house under 300k. If the house is near a million then its more justifiable. Around here most guys are charging around 4-8k labor for a walk in shower. And if one guy gets it done in 6 days total thats pretty good money. About a grand a day.

[@jordan2104]

When I started working on my own, I did a similar shower for $6k. Then, when orders started to pour in, some homeowners told me what other installers quoted them and suddenly I realized why I was so busy lol. I doubled my prices and I haven't lost a single client yet. Currently I have six shower rebuilds lined up, some being part of complete bathroom remodels. I'm in MT by the way and the housing market is ridiculous right now.

[@wayofthekodiak3118]

@@jordan2104 Plenty of work out there. Keep your prices high. Let the cheapskates learn the hard way.

[@ridenorthwest1687]

@@wayofthekodiak3118 After watching all the guys with low prices come and go over the years it's all the guys who are "charging too much" that are still in business.

[@andrewfox4206]

Starr tile doesn't pre slope his pan liner. He is adamant about not doing so and relying solely on trowlable membranes. I only use 2x4s to make a trough to fill with dry pack running the membrane up the centerline to create a monolithic cementous curb eliminating any wood products in the shower pan or curb. Tile setter since 1983 with return customers 20 plus years. for what its worth.🤷

[@mathusvaiaoga9787]

Is there a video explaining how you install the membrane to the centerline?? Interested to see how that’s done. Thanks.

[@JayLepisto]

I've been doing that for years with Rapidset Cementall. Sets rock hard in one hour. Membrane suspended in the middle of the curb. Curbs can be very svelt and minimalistic with this method.

[@mathusvaiaoga9787]

@@JayLepisto that sounds very interesting can you send a video or pictures or diagram explaining with pictures on how everything is laid out I might want to try that with my shower. I’ve always felt that wood has no place On the shower curb

[@JayLepisto]

@@mathusvaiaoga9787 No video but I have plenty of scale sketches. I have pictures of curbs as well. How do I send them to you?

[@orcoastgreenman]

13-17,000 for a 3'x5' walk in shower?!? Is there $10k worth of tile and hardware in there?

[@tnrcleancare7847]

Yes. I do it every day. Fair price.

[@tnrcleancare7847]

Also hes in California. Most places 10k-14 k

[@kenreynolds1000]

I feel the same way... Isn't all the work in the pan and the 1st course on the walls? Steer clear of fancy built-ins and exotic stone and that should be 10k based on his quote for the lower.

[@orcoastgreenman]

@@tnrcleancare7847 - wow... what portion of the job is materials, on a shower bid like that?

[@tnrcleancare7847]

@@orcoastgreenman half.

[@robertvillegas7472]

Key is to never set on two x four wood Damn! Set your own using concrete block either 3-5/8” wide or the 2” high pour cap set on side using Platinum thinset or Polyeurathane to set laticret inside edge and top only not the front face to allow any moisture to escape . Cheers 🤙🏽👍🏽

[@kestutisbagusauskas8323]

Spot on, wood and water do not mix, guaranteed to fail!

[@alwayssearching1882]

Never seen Starr Tile hot mop a wood curb. Regard yes. This bad curb install was not waterproofed.

[@beemerkon]

This guy knows his stuff right down to the yellow tools he is using

[@Peter-.H]

Pfiff! Yellow, it’s not even a pretty color…… just kidding 😁 Cheers 🍻

[@danknutson6941]

i was about to do my own shower install with traditional 2 piece drain with weep holes. Been watching a LOT of videos. I'm at a point of trying to find a fiberglass shower pan and just tile the walls. Anyone have any suggestions as to where to get a good quality custom (my drain is not completely centered with shower floor) fiberglass shower pan??? Thanks in advance! BTW- Tile coach you handled yourself professionally with regards to Starr Tile

[@stich1960]

Move the drain it's not as much work as it seems or foam pan if you can

[@JCC56]

I tore out my water damage traditional shower pan and went with tile redi pan, well worth it knowing it's not going to leak like the original install.

[@nathanhearn2069]

I came to the comments section to watch everyone lose their minds that THEY can’t get a proper price for a new shower in 2022. Lol

[@traderking3903]

what knee pad do you use?