Was Taxila the site of the world's oldest university? | Myths Highlights

Dr. M discusses whether Taxila (aka Takshashila), a seat of higher learning in ancient South Asia, was the world's earliest university.
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[@jholloway77]

We can confirm it's a university when we find letters from students asking their parents for more money after drinking too much

[@shivoesho9638]

that student was you.

[@stehfreejesseah7893]

I wish I coulda went there.

[@lococomrade3488]

Ancient Indian University... They were on shrooms, my dudes. Or worse.. Soma. Whatever tf that was. [And no. We do not know. So no one needs to make any weed implications]

[@kovelamanas9905]

is this sarcastic ? anyway i laughed thanks

[@therealuncleowen2588]

Conclusive proof will also include clay tablets of receipts to a bar (as evidenced by alcoholic beverage names) while the establishment is named "the library."

[@InternetDarkLord]

The problem is "center of learning" is so vague. I'm sure there were scribes meeting and talking thousands of years ago in Egypt or Mesopotamia and maybe elsewhere. It is only word use at what point a book club was a "center of learning" or not. The development of the concept was probably gradual with evolutionary stages along the way.

[@Breakfast_of_Champions]

I guess even Göbekli Tepe can be categorised like this too. Acenter of learning and the peak of culture.

[@WayneBraack]

Bow to the wisdom of the Internet Dark Lord!!

[@ulrikof.2486]

​@@Breakfast_of_Championsafaik there is not the slightest evidence pointing in the direction that it has been a place of organized education.

[@eliotanderson6554]

Apollonius of Tyana, a Greek philosopher, is often mentioned in historical records as having studied in Takshashila. Apollonius was a contemporary of Pythagoras and is known for his travels and teachings, which included elements of Indian philosophy and spirituality. While there's debate among historians about the extent of his studies in Takshashila, he is one of the figures frequently associated with cross-cultural exchanges between Greece and India during ancient times.

[@Rynewulf]

The Greek-Indian connection is such a fascinating period. One of the big early Buddhist names, King Malinda of Questions for King Malinda from the famous monks sent out by Ashoka was a Greek king named Menander ruling a kingdom crossing modern Afghanistan, Pakistan and NW India. Even the first images of The Buddha seem to be from this Greek fusion culture

[@MarzoVarea]

Apollonius of Tyana lived in the 1st century AD, six centuries after Pythagoras.

[@pattheplanter]

Apollonius is twice mentioned in historical records as having visited India. One of those mentions was a 19th century forgery. The other by Philostratus was written more than a century after Apollonius died. It reads very like the usual semi-fictional propaganda of a fraudulent miracle-worker who inspired a minor cult. All subsequent mentions were just references to what Philostratus had written to please his patron, whose son worshipped Apollonius.

[@AnimusDecolor]

Thanks for the fantastic video, such an interesting subject. In the canonical monastic literature (in the Pali Vinaya in a section called the Mahāvagga) one also finds mention of Taxila (Takkasīla) as the place where the famed physician of early Buddhist literature, Jīvaka received his training and education. Although one cannot place a firm date on the text, as part of the canon is was likely collated sometime in the last century BCE, perhaps composed a bit early than however. This might push the date for Taxila as a center of learning back a few more centuries than evidence from the Jatakas. The famed Indian grammarian, Pāṇiṇi (ca. 5th-4th century BCE) is said to have studied there, though I'm not sure that's just a later ascription or actually found in the earlier Vedic texts...

[@Incorruptus1]

Very cool Dr. thank you very much! I love your videos sir. :)

[@AnyoneCanSee]

Excellent as always.

[@tiredman4540]

Fascinating talk! Went there in '93, interesting site and very nice museum, as I remember.

[@tiredman4540]

Just found there is a virtual tour of the museum now! Highly recommended.

[@MegaMonamy]

While i do tend to debate your findings and conclusions as it does make me ask questions, thank you for sharing your excellent analysis and food for thought.

[@MuktiArno]

All ancient Indian temples were schools as well as other purposes. The statues at the lowest levels, at a child's height, are usually animals. As the child grows, the statues they see at eye level and their perspective changes and sees more and more.

[@abhinavchauhan7864]

There are no tamples in india before greeks. Greek brought the "tample" culture into india

[@kishandubey7882]

​@@abhinavchauhan7864Yeah they were the driving factor....not the sole source ! The art of sculpting statues and monuments was there in India, they catalysed the scale of it

[@Rhadamistus5]

There is also Colchis Academy, famous for Rhetoric. In the ancient city of Poti (Phasis), Georgia. Themistius studied their in the 4th century AD, mentioned also by Agathia Scholaktikos.

[@philpaine3068]

I think that we can safely say that Nalanda, in modern Bihar, was just such an institution at least when it was visited by the Chinese scholar Xuanzang [Hsüen Tsang] who travelled in India in 629-645 CE. It appears to have been founded a century earlier. While technically a Buddhist monastery, it taught the general public many subjects, including clearly non-religious ones, and employed teachers of other faiths. It fulfilled much of what we would associate with the word "university." Xuanzang also visited Taxila, which at that time appears to have been a more conventional monastery, but later developed on the same lines as Nalanda from its example. The same goes for Vikramashila. The three appear to have shared these characteristics.

[@grumpyed58]

Great content. FYI your lighting is too low on your left

[@willp9226]

More informative 4 minute videos like this please.

[@MossyMozart]

@willp9226 - As well as extended, in-depth reports!

[@willp9226]

@@MossyMozart He has lots of extended, indepth reports already, but sure.

[@kasturipillay6626]

Appreciate your research, its true seems first learning of some sort, was just about, during Alexanderś campaign in india. 😊

[@MegaMonamy]

It is mentioned that it was prosperous hub of learning already and Alexander simply visited and testified it as true

[@SJking-gk4go]

Takshashila was a Buddhist monastery, which was a learning center of many arts.😊

[@WayneBraack]

and how do you know that? what is the evidence. and don't point to some crack head like graham hancock. prof said historians don't have the conclusive info to say this is fact. so where can we find that? maybe we can help the good doctor out by providing some scholarly materials?

[@Ayush97772]

it was a indian university as it also taught secular subjects like eco and pol. it also taught jain and vedic ideas.

[@WayneBraack]

@@Ayush97772 well that is interesting to know. Although I know nothing about jain or vedic ideas. I've only heard of these things through shows like ancient aliens and I don't believe those guys because they lie. So I say I know nothing.

[@RockciiBarbosa]

Archeological evidence says Buddhist and reference of text are of Buddhist.. why third party is interested about taxila..

[@bryanbadonde9484]

@@WayneBraack Jainism is an Indian religion, and Vedic ideas refers to the Vedas, which are the ancient Hindu scriptures and talk about Hindu philosophy/spiritual path to enlightenment. Whatever tidbits the ancient aliens loons take from them has no bearing on them.

[@merryfergie]

4:21, regarding validation of evidence, would that same delayed timing be applicable to the Bible? I remember the Bible being written 300 years after christ died?

[@WorldofAntiquity]

It applies to all texts.

[@physicscal2142]

Chandra Gupta Maurya teacher, Chanakya was educated in taxila University is common knowledge in India. Chanakya (also called Kautilya) is like philosophy guru to Indian just like Plato is to western culture. He is believed to be born in 375bc which quite accurate because we know Chandra Gupta became king 321bc. That being said his early life and education is discribed in Arthashastra a book he wrote, that Indians read to this day. Jataka stories to refer to him being educated in taxila too.

[@MrJonsonville5]

I was about to ask if these "mounds" were the same as Tels, and you answered quicker than I could type😂

[@recursr1892]

Thanks for this insight. Would love an tour through the different concepts of education in major cultures/epoches. The western „university“ is really an odly formal thing- why do I need a paper to proof I have learned something? In the crafts, if you know something, you can recreate it- like stone workers, wood workers etc..I guess it‘s the more abstract knowledge types (legal, religion, philosophy) that require this formal proof. I wonder, if this is correctly assumed.

[@AveragePicker]

There are a lot of certifications out there even for more "craft" skills. But even so you typically have to provide a portfolio. Would you want a surgeon that didn't provide proof they had been to medical school? Ever hire that "tree guy" that says he'll take that tree out for $50...but didn't mention he'll also take your roof out for free?

[@sskpsp]

I wonder how much this weaseling of definitions excluded non-European "firsts" in history. Anecdotally I see a lot of "this achievement was performed by so-and-so non-Europeans...but it excluded this specific requirement only the ancient Greeks were purported to include, therefore the non-Europeans were primitive and the Greeks can be said to be the truly first ones"

[@jjw56]

Wow!! Crazy insane!! I love the use of maps. Dang, you’ve really upped game aesthetically. Kool use of shadows on the face. It certainly adds something in new world of academic KZbin LOL

[@anirudh177]

It depends on how one defines what a "university" is, it was definitely a place for higher education, but one must establish what an university is before stating anything. As I understand, the earliest university-like structures appear in Buddhist tradition by the 400s - 500s CE (Nalanda and Valabhi), in Hindu tradition too it appears around the same time (in Kanci), though it does not become prominent in it until the 700s CE. These universities developed from early small schools set in monasteries and temples, from Acarya-kulas and Ashramas, and from small schools set up by landlords and patrons (primarily meant for teaching Arithmetic, Reading and Writing). These universities were building complexes that consisted of large halls, dormitories, places to eat, and in some cases, open spaces for the purpose of physical exercise and movement, a library all within a complex of buildings. These were often extensions of Mathas or Viharas (Monasteries) ans also Individual Temples or attached right next to them, would generally have smaller temples, and occasionally small hospitals or physicians quarters. In Buddhist sites, these were attached to Viharas, in Hindu tradition, to Mathas or Ghatikas, individual temples or Agraharas (villages given as land grants to entire families of Brahmins). To these universities one would find many villages and their lands granted to and associated with them. Given away often by kings, nobles or landlords as endowments for the university. These villages gave a part of their revenue to the universities and provided other services in exchange for payment and access to the college's resources. These donations could also be seen as educational endowments in a way, since many of these villages were given as part of funding for certain educational courses. To cite and example, King Karunantadakkan (800s AD) of the Ay dynasty in Southernmost Kerala established a college for the specific purpose of Vedic studies in a village named Parthivasekharapuram, the college provided free boarding, lodging and tuition in addition to official classes to a limit of ninety-five scholars, the 95 seats of the college were divided according to the different Sakhas (schools) of the respective Vedas. 45 seats were reserved for Rigvedins in general, 36 for the Jaiminiya school of the Samaveda, 14 for Taittiriya school of Yajurveda. The students desiring admission needed to produce recommendations and statements from five valid scholars that he was proficient in Grammar, the Mimamsa School of Philosophy, Priestly Rituals, and a basic Idea of the affairs of the three kingdoms (Cola-Cera-Pandya). There would be monetary fines for abusive language or physical confrontations, to be paid to _peru-makkal_ (literally "great men" - probably trustees of the college or seniors). This Ay college was modeled after the Kandalur Salai near what is today Vizhinjam or Trivandrum, which was very famous, especially considering how Chola and Pandya kings proclaimed victory over some kind of military action against the Salai. Seeing how the Parthivasekharapuram Salai or College refers to military weapons and the prohibition to bring then inside temples and college grounds implies that some of the students had military training and had weapons. In fact some have suggested that Kandalur and other similar Kerala Salai were converted to military training centres during the Cera-Cola wars of the 11th century. Kerala also had a peculiar system were there was a sequence of schooling systems to join, starting with vernacular education, then Sanskritic education followed by continuation of Sanskrit studies or moving to a Kalari (a military school), in rest of India, vernacular, sanskritic and military instruction were separate parallel systems that you had to put more effort to switch to, rather than successive stages. But Taxila did not have any universities like the kind mentioned above. It was prominent place of learning, but there's no big lecture halls or dormitories in a building complex. Rather it seems it was a place for Acharya-kulas to settle in and teach. Acharya-kula is identical to Guru-kula, individual teachers taking in students and teaching them without any formal syllabus or teaching pattern (which was likely an element of ancient universities) much like the old way the Greeks learnt, usually in the teachers home or in a garden or an open place, some times in temples etc. It seems that in Taxila, these Acharyas and their students conglomerated together in great numbers. I suppose one could imagine going on a stroll through the streets, seeing multiple groups of teacher-student(s) sitting in gardens or parks, or inside their homes or on the Guru's verandah and talk and learn. Even though nothing has been said in primary sources, it seems obvious to suspect that these different groups of Acharyas and gurukul s must have cooperated with each other collaborated occasionally. This is based on my reading of _Education in Ancient India_ by historian Hartmut Scharfe

[@hawkingdawking4572]

There was no Hinduism before the 19th century. The lengthy comment with jingoism is pointless.

[@kishandubey7882]

​@@hawkingdawking4572You tried hard to sound smart with your short comment.... unfortunately u r not !

[@hawkingdawking4572]

@@kishandubey7882 Actually I am dumber than the worst converted Tindu on the planet. But even I know that nearly all of the stuff in that comment is false. Deep inferiority complex is a curse for sure.

[@anirudh177]

@@hawkingdawking4572 How was this even jingoistic in anyway?

[@hawkingdawking4572]

@@anirudh177 Coz many of your claims are wild with the typical "aging" and "we wuz Kang" tactics.

[@shrutimishra252]

Hey, why don't you do a debate with Abhijit Chavda on this topic? He is very well read on this topic.

[@kasturipillay6626]

Some extra exposure for you Dr. Miano on this channel **Universe inside me. ** did you watch that episode few days back.?

[@maxtryme1508]

Bro !! Is Nalanda a university. Can you do a video on that.

[@mogambo4565]

I think nalanda is more older university. In whatever sense the university were back in those time.

[@kaloarepo288]

The first university in the modern sense of a trade union of students (that's what "university" means) was Bologna in northern Italy established by the catholic church to educate the clergy in canon law and other disciplines. The methodology here especially the forensic side in the study of canon law eventually morphed into the scientific method i. e. establishing whether an assertion is true or not by inference and presentation of evidence. From here the idea of the university spread to Paris and to England where the two great universities Oxford and Cambridge were established and to many other countries and of course to the United States much later where the great ivy league universities like Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Cambridge Mass. were established largely by Protestant denominations to educate their clergy.

[@varyolla435]

Interesting as always. One might consider the sociological impact of = stable societies. In other word cultures which pop up and are around for a relatively short span of time being subject to internal/external strife as well as wars tend not to achieve such outcomes as centers of knowledge such that can be improved upon and passed onto subsequent generations - i.e. "schools". Conversely cultures in areas perhaps subject to periodic climatic distress such that acts to undermine a stable society + who find themselves engaged in recurring conflicts = tend not to be able to support such endeavors - and if they do they do not last. Moral of the story: this area and this culture appears to have enjoyed an amount of stability compared to others in perhaps the Near Eastern region which were plagued by wars and droughts. Consequently having established a centralized society they appear to have been able to pursue more _"esoteric"_ endeavors and to pass that along. Just as the Egyptians under the authority of the Pharaohs maintained guilds of professional craftsmen etc. who pursued specialized knowledge - so today we have "think tanks" which also under a stable society and funding from others also engage in the pursuit of specialized knowledge which society and the government writ large can avail themselves of. Thus "chaos" is not conducive to enhancing man's knowledge as much as a stable society. Add to this the advent of a written language such that concepts can be qualified and you have the basis of multi-generational learning.

[@neanineto5516]

How does this fit in timeline wise with Timbuktu scholarship?

[@somodeepgamingz1284]

Sir thank you for covering this topic. Your way of teaching is simple yet entertaining and informative. I wish that you may cover more topics on Indian history.

[@ahmedshaharyarejaz9886]

Man, the history of Ancient Pakistan is amazing.

[@faheemsardar]

35 kilometers from Islamabad, Pakistan

[@mbnarch]

All of the monasteries in the Taxila region served that function. Not just any one specific establishment.

[@tommynleah]

Pls pls pls do more Billy Carson reactions 😂

[@barryobrien1890]

Great points. Bhuddism seemed to be rising at this time, so it was likely the Buddhists were heavily involved in the education offerings of the time, and they were in the business of libraries etc which really is what would define a center of learning. This is an interesting part of the world as Alexander seems to have faltered, and the concept of him giving power back to porus whom he defeated, instead of his local allied tribes, along with the story of his men becoming tired despite his supply chain. Would love you to do a critique on Alexander's biographer Ptolemy and his Indian campaign

[@andreweaston1779]

So, if the Greeks who were there said it was a great city (and you would have to assume the city didn't spring up overnight, so, if it was a great city in 330 BCE, it was probably a great city in 370 BCE), but not architecturally, and we haven't found any magnificent buildings, AND we have the Hindu texts which say that it was a place of learning (even if they said it was earlier than when the Greeks arrived) is it not at least plausible that the reason the Greeks and such said it was a great city is because it was a place of great culture (which generally includes higher learning)? The lack of large building is not a death blow. Didn't at least some of the Greek philosophers give their lectures in fields? I'm not saying any of this proves anything. But surely it's plausible. No?

[@WorldofAntiquity]

That depends on what made a city “great” in the minds of the Greeks.

[@anirudh177]

I don't think he's denying that it's was considered a major city for education. I believe he's contesting the idea of there being an "university" in the city. The term is somewhat anachronistic for the time, and it can get a bit confusing as to how one would define it. But at the least, it ought to be a large building-complex with a somewhat organised regimen. The earliest university-like structures appear in Buddhist tradition by the 400s - 500s CE (Nalanda and Valabhi), in Hindu tradition too it appears around the same time (in Kanci), though it does not become prominent in it until the 700s CE. These universities developed from early small schools set in monasteries and temples, from Acarya-kulas and Ashramas, and from small schools set up by landlords and patrons (primarily meant for teaching Arithmetic, Reading and Writing). These universities were building complexes that consisted of large halls, dormitories, places to eat, and in some cases, open spaces for the purpose of physical exercise and movement, a library all within a complex of buildings. These were often extensions of Mathas or Viharas (Monasteries) ans also Individual Temples or attached right next to them, would generally have smaller temples, and occasionally small hospitals or physicians quarters. In Buddhist sites, these were attached to Viharas, in Hindu tradition, to Mathas or Ghatikas, individual temples or Agraharas (villages given as land grants to entire families of Brahmins). To these universities one would find many villages and their lands granted to and associated with them. Given away often by kings, nobles or landlords as endowments for the university. These villages gave a part of their revenue to the universities and provided other services in exchange for payment and access to the college's resources. These donations could also be seen as educational endowments in a way, since many of these villages were given as part of funding for certain educational courses. To cite an example, King Karunantadakkan (800s CE) of the Ay dynasty in Southernmost Kerala established a college for the specific purpose of Vedic studies in a village named Parthivasekharapuram, the college provided free boarding, lodging and tuition in addition to official classes to a limit of ninety-five scholars, the 95 seats of the college were divided according to the different Sakhas (schools) of the respective Vedas. 45 seats were reserved for Rigvedins in general, 36 for the Jaiminiya school of the Samaveda, 14 for Taittiriya school of Yajurveda. The students desiring admission needed to produce recommendations and statements from five valid scholars that he was proficient in Grammar, the Mimamsa School, Priestly Rituals, and a basic Idea of the affairs of the three kingdoms (Cola-Cera-Pandya). There would be monetary fines for abusive language or physical confrontations, to be paid to _peru-makkal_ (literally "great men" - probably trustees of the college or seniors). This Ay college was modeled after the Kandalur Salai near what is today Vizhinjam or Trivandrum, which was very famous, especially considering how Chola and Pandya kings proclaimed victory over some kind of military action against the Salai. Seeing how the Parthivasekharapuram Salai or College refers to military weapons and the prohibition to bring then inside temples and college grounds implies that some of the students had military training and had weapons. In fact some have suggested that Kandalur and other similar Kerala Salai were converted to military training centres during the Cera-Cola wars of the 11th century. Kerala also had a peculiar system were there was a sequence of schooling systems to join, starting with vernacular education, then Sanskritic education followed by continuation of Sanskrit studies or moving to a Kalari (a military school), in rest of India, vernacular, sanskritic and military instruction were separate parallel systems that you had to put more effort to switch to, rather than successive stages. Taxila did not have any "universities" like the kind mentioned above. It was prominent place of learning, but there's no big lecture halls or dormitories in a building complex. Rather it seems it was a place for Acharya-kulas to settle in and teach. Acharya-kula is identical to Guru-kula, individual teachers taking in students and teaching them without any formal syllabus or teaching pattern (which was likely an element of ancient universities), usually in the teachers home or in a garden or an open place, some times in temples etc. It seems that in Taxila, these Acharyas and their students conglomerated together in great numbers. I suppose one could imagine going on a stroll through the streets, seeing multiple groups of teacher-student(s) sitting in gardens or parks, or inside their homes or on the Guru's verandah and talk and learn. Even though nothing has been said in primary sources, it seems obvious to suspect that these different groups of Acharyas and gurukul s must have cooperated with each other collaborated occasionally. This is based on my readjng of _Education in Ancient India_ by Hartmut Scharfe

[@andreweaston1779]

@@anirudh177 This was a fascinating read. I personally know nothing but the very basics about Indian history. I mean it. Absolutely worth the read

[@anirudh177]

@@andreweaston1779 Scharfe's work is, unfortunately, the only one that focuses on Education in ancient Indian history that is worth reading today. There are a few from the early 1900s, but they are outdated and tend to make ridiculous assertions that are obviously influenced by either nationalist pride or orientalist tropes. I seriously recommend reading it, especially the chapters in the first half of the book, they discuss the perception of knowledge and learning and the goals of education as understood by ancient Indian society, which I found fascinating.

[@ic9771]

​@@anirudh177Dharampal has written on ancient education & well as later education in India particularly under the British colonial rule in The Beautiful Tree among other works focusing on this topic.

[@raychat2816]

Given that the first theory of Atoms dates back to before the Trojan wars, to Mochus of Sidon, surely there must have been enlightened people who were obviously part of a culture that eventually was able allow them to come up with such a concept, wouldn’t you agree ? And let’s be reasonable here, many holy texts weren’t written by historians, so assuming he was just a certain religious figure without a shred of scientific proof isn’t unbiased thinking …

[@alexisdespland4939]

what about nalanda in india.

[@matthewmenich4302]

I read the charak samhita volume 1, I remember a part describing how students should sit, the lighting, the stand for the text, how to prepare for study, how to transmit information to others. Very much thought went into academia before "universities". Look up NIH research data on vedic herbs, gudmar works on the pancreas and gugglu scrapes tumors, no really

[@GizzyDillespee]

Semantics... people call it "monastery" even though it was probably closer to a prep school/college, church and monastic complex all together... and then for graduate school, students would go out and study under a famous pandit or yogi. The way I see it is, if bible college can be called college, then Nalanda can be called a university. It was kind of a cultural institution... part of the reason it became huge was the benefactor families had so many kids, and that was one way to deal with inheritence issues. Maybe scholars discredit Nalanda because the sciences were Buddgist sciences... so they might teach 5 aggregates instead of periodic table of elements... but I think EVERY ancient school was like that to some degree. But if Christians can teach creationism, and it's still called a school, then other religions' schools also should get a similar "pass with an asterisk" that the creationists get.

[@shivoesho9638]

Evidence of Plato? Nope 😌

[@courtneyriley185]

Commenting for algorithms and hey congratulations i dont remember if you got married yet or not!

[@pmaitrasm]

Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, all had academies. Pythagoras probably did too. There is no way to tell which one was first. I would be wary of embellishments corrupting the actual narrative. People have made claims of Pythagoras appearing in two different cities on the same day, to gold digging ants roaming around in India. The stories of Jatakas are no more and no less corruptible as those from Hellenic sources.

[@Playerone1287]

So my history teacher was right, it was an education hub not s university

[@yvonnerogers6429]

👍🏻

[@alexisdespland4939]

why are they no really old univercities in china.

[@Jkl62200]

It depends on how a 'university' is defined. China had learning centers focused on educating bureaucrats and mandarins as well as institutions teaching the confucian classics for millennia. But they would not fit the description of a University as we know them today. I think the one in Bologna, Italy would be the first one that fits the description.

[@ic9771]

There are Buddhist texts apart from the Jataka Tales which clearly in unambiguous terms state that contemporary kings of the Buddha received their education in Takshashila viz King Prasanjit of Kosala among others.And these texts were compiled not long after the Nirvana of the Buddha . Secondly while you yourself sneer about scribes from the 3rd century BCE "trying" to project their present day experiences to a much older date without any motivations or benefits as in monetary ones for doing so , it doesn't prevent you from indulging in the same projections citing Bologna as the first bonafide University as understood by parameters - then & currently prevailing ones with no significant differences between the two. Those universities as it then existed in India followed what's known as the Gurukul system where knowledge imparted was mostly oral & disseminated under trees in the open as opposed to the paraphernalia associated with modern universities. You still get to see sights like that in schools in rural India especially ones associated with imparting training in the Vedas. Further I've noticed this remarkable tendency among present day western historians to appropriate Greek & Roman knowledge systems & parcel them off as "western " knowledge systems though the ancient Greeks & Romans themselves saw the people inhabiting the lands in western northern & central Europe as barbarians . Their own interactions , value systems & appreciation of cultures & civilizations to the east of them with whom they shared & learnt much from , having recorded their appreciation for , is there for everyone to see . Now this is quite unlike the present day garden variety western academic whose lode star in terms of civilisational values are the Greco Roman intellectual & civilisational traditions & in terms of religion are the Judaeo Christian religious traditions none of which had their roots in the west. One can understand the condescending attitude then for it comes from an inadequacy - something the ancient Greeks & Romans - the intellectual forebearers of the so called "western civilization" themselves never suffered from. Maybe next time do your homework & learn some humility.

[@WorldofAntiquity]

*There are Buddhist texts apart from the Jataka Tales which clearly in unambiguous terms state that contemporary kings of the Buddha received their education in Takshashila viz King Prasanjit of Kosala among others.And these texts were compiled not long after the Nirvana of the Buddha.* Can you please name some of these texts from not long after the Buddha that mention the university? *Secondly while you yourself sneer about scribes from the 3rd century BCE "trying" to project their present day experiences to a much older date without any motivations or benefits as in monetary ones for doing so , it doesn't prevent you from indulging in the same projections citing Bologna as the first bonafide University as understood by parameters - then & currently prevailing ones with no significant differences between the two.* We have primary sources on the U of Bologna. They come from the actual time. I read the rest of what you wrote but have no idea how it applies to this video.

[@ic9771]

@@WorldofAntiquity are you actually comparing availability of textual evidence from the 10th & 11th century CE to the third century BCE from a different geography ? Moreover my explicit point wasn't on the existence of such textual evidence but on the parameters for considering a place of learning a university. The criteria for selection of candidates , the curricula , the examination , the certification etc all had a precedent in Bologna . Where did they come from ? What were they ? Didn't you notice I mentioned there are sources other than the Jataka Tales themselves a rich source of information compiled around the time of the Mahaparinirvan of the Buddha ? Are you actually a professor of history ?

[@WorldofAntiquity]

@@ic9771 *are you actually comparing availability of textual evidence from the 10th & 11th century CE to the third century BCE from a different geography?* No. I am comparing the quality of the existing evidence. *Moreover my explicit point wasn't on the existence of such textual evidence but on the parameters for considering a place of learning a university.* This is what you meant by "indulging in the same projections"? Those words don't seem to fit the ones you are using now. *The criteria for selection of candidates , the curricula , the examination , the certification etc all had a precedent in Bologna. Where did they come from ? What were they?* They come from the people who invented the word "university." *Didn't you notice I mentioned there are sources other than the Jataka Tales themselves a rich source of information compiled around the time of the Mahaparinirvan of the Buddha?* Didn't you notice that the first thing I asked you was to name them? Go back and look.

[@ic9771]

​@@WorldofAntiquitywell isn't it obvious that the chances of textual sources from the 10th or 11th century being extant is more than that of textual sources from the 3rd century CE being extant today ? Or is the absence of evidence , evidence of absence according to you ?

[@ic9771]

​@@WorldofAntiquityOf late , historians have started giving more weight to oral traditions or oral traditions which existed since long but were put to paper much later especially if there's no reason for a scribe or narrator to indulge in hyperbole or indulge in outright lies , than what was the case earlier . No clue what it is where you live.

[@Crabby303]

They'll all kick up in the comments now, you literally can't even hint at anything vaguely critical of India these days without a deluge of indignation.

[@Playerone1287]

Hahah love this

[@bobbysingh9458]

An over correction. Not a fan of, but quite understandable

[@anirudh177]

It gets annoying, people are either racist, agenda driven against Indian history, or overly protective and fanatical about it. It's either "India was a perfect paradise" or "eww, ultra mystic irrational life-negating culture". It feels like nuanced conversations on Indian history is restricted to academia or a select few set of laymen.

[@user-co5vh9zs4c]

It so a n n o y i n g when people call you out for Racism.. r i g h t?

[@user-co5vh9zs4c]

So A n n o y i n g getting c a l l e d out for r a c i s m... r i g h t?

[@bubaks2]

Sounds like hadith

[@averycardosia2486]

So, from watchng this video, I can conclude that, although you don’t dismiss the possibility, there is not enough solid evidence to make a historical claim

[@weareallbornmad410]

...when were jattacas written? By which point do we _know_ it was the center of learning? That doesn't seem to be made clear in the video.

[@magnificentuniverse2283]

Yes finally a video of a decent length. So many vids from this channel with very interesting content that i want to watch but waaaay too long. Thanks

[@Balthazare69]

This isnt tik-tok 😝

[@magnificentuniverse2283]

@@Balthazare69 oh wow it isn't? I could have sworn I was on tiktok. Thanks!

[@pattheplanter]

You know there is a pause function?

[@Playerone1287]

I love those long videos, I wanted this video to be long too

[@safi164]

For anyone who does not know Ancient Taxila is located in the suburbs of Pakistani capital Islamabad well more precisely its twin city Rawalpindi.. Well there are a lot of historical places all around in that area from the ruins of Ghandara civilization to 19th and the early 20th century the British era structures as Rawalpindi was an important garrison city for the British. Islamabad itself is a modern city from the 1960s and 70s but every other place around it has a rich history. Regarding the ancient history I pretty much agree with you.. We simply don't know much before the Greek and Mauryan era.. That's the first time we see the native scripts and monumental writing like the Edicts of Mauryan king Ashoka... There is huge gap between the Indus Valley script and the Brahmi and Kharosthi scripts of Mruyan era... In between that Indian subcontinent was pretty much an oral society.

[@RockciiBarbosa]

there was written language in Indus civilisation .. what happened to that language? How it is possible that you have written language suddenly you have oral tradition..

[@safi164]

​@@RockciiBarbosa The Indus Valley seals stopped around 1900-1700 BCE or something around the time Indus Valley Civilization collapsed and the Indus Valley cities were abandoned... I don't know the exact date no one has deciphered them... then we see language again during the Muryan period and some time before that.. Roughly around the time of Alexender the Great.. There we see two parallel scripts one is called Brahmi from which all modern day Indian scripts are descended from and other is Kharosthi in the North Western Indian Subcontinent roughly around where modern day Pakistan and Eastern Afghanistan is i.e the Ghandhara civilization... The main source text we have are the Edicts of Emperor Ashoka which are multi-lingual monumental text all over Indian Subcontinent in some places they are written in brahmi in others they are written in khrosthi and in same places there is also Aramaic and Greek written there as well.... There is some evidence of early proto script slightly before that period in some caves in South India which is said to be the early prototype of Brahami script.. While both Brahmi and Kharosthi are Abugida scripts but there is a clear influence of Aramaic probably Imperial Aramaic via the Persian Empire on both scripts.. It is more so on Kharosthi and less so on Brahmi.. Also the first languages to be written down were the Prakrit languages or the Middle-Indo-Aryan languages these are kinda like Vulgar Latin in case of Latin... Many of these languages are the descendant of modern day Indo-Aryan languages in the Indian Subcontinent... Sansikrit was strictly an oral language and it wasn't written down for the first time until the 1st century AD or so.. Most of the Hindu religious text we have now they were written down for the first time during the Gupta period around 3rd century AD... There was a strong tradition of memorizing entire Sansikrit text as it was the liturgical language kinda like how some people memorize entire Quran in modern day Muslim countries to this day who are called Hafiz.. It was similar to that hence most of the ancient Sansikrit text we have like the Rig Veda were preserved this way. Some people try to link Indus Valley script with Brahmi script but there is no real evidence and no one has successfully deciphered Indus Valley script as of current date and no one knows what language it represents... The most common theories are either its some form of early proto-dravadian language or some form early indigenous languages like proto-Munda or as such but no one really knows and most attempt have so far not very conclusive. Regarding the Indus Valley Civilization and their people the closest written record we have about them comes from the Sumerian Civilization who used to trade with the Indus Valley cities and they likely called Indus Valley civilization as Meluhha which they say was in East though in later Mespotamian civilizations they identified Meluhha with some place else... There is a strong evidence that Meluhha is indeed Indus Valley Civilization as Indus Valley seals had been founded in Mespotamian cities like Ur.

[@karldubhe8619]

Did they study aliens? (actually, I wonder if they did. If they called the planets 'aliens' I'll bet they did.)

[@kgzb123]

wwll, Nalamda of Gupta period surely has admission process, residential hostels and even foreign students from East Asia used to come to study. So it was surely a University. Maybe not be Western education standards. well in that case even Hinduism, buddhism and indian philosophies r also not religion as per Abrahamic standards

[@WorldofAntiquity]

Source?

[@anchitbose4151]

​@@WorldofAntiquitysearch nalanda mahavihara you'll get your answers. KZbin comments unfortunately doesn't allow you to post links

[@Playerone1287]

​@@WorldofAntiquityI hope your next video is on Nalanda

[@WorldofAntiquity]

@@anchitbose4151 I didn't ask for a link. I asked him to name his source(s).

[@anchitbose4151]

@@WorldofAntiquity well you can directly read the works of Chinese pilgrim xuanzang and yijing. Those are available for free online.

[@gregpappas]

Taxilla is one of my favorite places in Asia. Greek cities also had histories that dates to the 8th centuries. what about Egypt and Babylon, that had centers of leaving a thousand years before that. You drew me in with click bait. I will not return. bad!

[@bryn494]

I would say that anywhere there are non-residential astronomically aligned buildings there was a place of higher learning.

[@WorldofAntiquity]

Astronomical alignments existed long before cities.

[@eliotanderson6554]

Chanakya was a student of takshashila The first person to write book kn economjcs arthashastra

[@RockciiBarbosa]

Indian archeological departments deny existence of Chanakya.. book written in his name were of 19th century.. but Indian historians are best among the lairs..

[@ic9771]

​@@RockciiBarbosa Paxtani hain kya badwe ? Ramzan ka Mahina hain aur roza rakhkar 5 baar masjid mein gaan upar neeche karne ke bajay yahan apni ammi shuda rahaa hain ?

[@dangerous_ideas16]

Arthashastra was not a book of Economics. Lol😂. Just because it has Artha in its name doesn’t mean it was on econ. It is a book of moral philosophy and law. Read it.

[@itsoblivion8124]

​@@RockciiBarbosa nobody denied his existence. Arthsastra is mentioned in splitzer manuscript which is not Contemporary but still 2000 year old.

[@hawkingdawking4572]

Much of the so-called Hindu scriptures originated in the 19th century.

[@saliksayyar9793]

It is in Pakistan, not India. South Asian or ancient Pakistani, not India.

[@WorldofAntiquity]

In ancient times, the region known as "India" included Pakistan. I was not referring to the modern state of India.

[@eliotanderson6554]

Even if takshashila wasn't nalanda vikramshila udantapuri and 23 other major universities used to exist till 1100 ad Nalanda university had 10000 students lot of foreign students used to come

[@MediaFaust]

But where did Imhotep get his PhD?

[@shubhamanand1446]

if bible college can be called college, then Taxila can be called a university. It was kind of a cultural institution.

[@islandmonusvi]

You want solid evidence…well Sir…I’m still paying off my student loans from Taxila Univ.

[@saptarshiadhikary3736]

One minute sir, you are wrong in the first place. Takshashila university had ample number of classrooms. The travelogues of Buddhist monks says so. Although I don't know the exact no. of classrooms.

[@courtneyriley185]

😂 you say it has classrooms , yet you dont even know how many rooms there was....goodness the ignorance and arrogance of your comment when YOU dont even know comment

[@saptarshiadhikary3736]

@@courtneyriley185 the Buddhist monks' travelogues mentions the existence of classrooms, but not the no. of classrooms. What's my fault in it...?? It's their fault. But yes one thing is sure, each department had atleast one classrooms, some had five also according to the no. of students.

[@courtneyriley185]

@@saptarshiadhikary3736 and with that information you should be able to make a estimate of how many rooms they were .

[@saptarshiadhikary3736]

@@courtneyriley185 sorry, I am not in the game of making rough estimates. I prefer accurate numbers, which I don't know.

[@pattheplanter]

What was the date those travelogues were written? The video was not about whether Takshashila had a university but when that university was founded.

[@TheAbsComputerVideos]

Thanks a lot sir your research is always deep and gives different aspects. But sir it is not a myth however it's history Takshashila and Nalanda were two strong pillars to the Indian subcontinent.

[@Carlton-B]

The question isn't whether they were pillars, but when did they become pillars. The most logical place for Taxila is when the Mauryans took over. The only certain thing is that the archaeology of the whole region is incomplete, and a lot more work needs to be done.

[@helenamcginty4920]

A bit like the Bible then. Both old and new testaments written often hundreds of years after events by people not even connected with the societies they purport to report on. And with political agendas which lead to, shall we say, elaborations of received information.

[@frankdobs]

Always find it funny that the stories came from nobody involved but people take the Bible as gospel. Same thing is st peter being held highly when he never meet Jesus as he was dead for hundreds of years at that point.

[@MegaMonamy]

I agree to the reasoning ... but since there is lack of credible evidence either ways, technically speaking, the piece of evidence that Aruni was educated in Taksh shila could be considered as evidence ... unless we find evidence that takshshila was not from before 8 th century bce or we find evidence that folk stories exaggerated just to prove some point.. evidence is an evidence though bit shaky

[@MrPeaceGuy54]

But that evidence may not be sufficient to outweigh the evidence that we find throughout the world about records being written a long time after the events/time they were describing not having too much reliability. The concrete archaeological evidence that we do have goes back to the 6th century BCE. Remaining agnostic about this could be a reasonable option.

[@shivoesho9638]

Chanakya/Kautilya is a fictional character created by brahmin. The character of Chanakya was coined when the inscriptions of Asoka were beginning to be decipher. Brahmins portrayed Chanakya as Strategist , Economists, Royal adviser of Asok. Brahmins wanted to establish that Asoka's guru should be a Brahmin. Chanakya has been established without evidence which is very wrong.

[@Ayush97772]

stop lying bhimte... oldest mention of chanakya is from a buddhist text called mahavasma not from hindus texts. in mahavasma it is mentioned that a brahmin named chanakya helped chandragupta. then it is also mentioned in jain and hindus texts.

[@narendrasomawat5978]

​@@Ayush97772these are anti Hindu bigots who are trying to label every great thing about Hinduism as negative.

[@Mani-my8ob]

Lol he real

[@shivoesho9638]

​@@Ayush97772 You are a liar *Haramta* .... . Just as your Krishna is a frictional character, similarly your Kautilya is also a Frictional character. Buddhist scriptures are not considered proof unless it matches archaeological evidence. Mahavansh is not a Authentic source. HR@mta Ayush . Your claims does not become truth without proof. Go take पंचागव्य and purify yourself

[@RockciiBarbosa]

@@Ayush97772​​⁠. cow excretion eater Indian archaeological survey denying the existence of so-called Chanakya.. if you look it in Buddhist text he is Buddhist..

[@sofa9866]

Sad to see u didnt once mention that its in pakistan

[@chilledwalrus]

Fidel Castro is still there. Are you related?

[@eliotanderson6554]

Even if it wasn't Islamic jihadism had destoryed 23 other universities in india around 11th century nalanda was the one with most suffering where all people were killed and all manuscrupts being burned 9 million copies though exageerated most likely was burned

[@TingTong2568]

Can you please name me all the 23 universities that was destroyed in india by the islamic jihadism?

[@ic9771]

​@@TingTong2568Google it . Hint - the list begins with Nalanda , Vikramshila , Odantapura & on and on.

[@shivoesho9638]

No evidence of Vedic period is found.But still the Vedic period is taught in schools and colleges. Sanskrit is not an old language . Only mythology is taught in India. LOL Mythology runs rampant in India, evidence based history has no meaning. 😆

[@Playerone1287]

Lol there are lots of evidence of Vedic period

[@MAXXTERN511]

​@@Playerone1287 I guess that guy didn't watch the Saraswati river video .

[@Playerone1287]

@@MAXXTERN511 of you're an Indian you don't have to watch that video to know about evidences of vedic period

[@hawkingdawking4572]

History fabrication is an art in 'Bharat'.

[@ic9771]

​@@hawkingdawking4572only cult preached by mo the naughty & his 9 year old wife ay Esha is the true one followed by products of Arab mut'ah & halala also known as moplahs who make the best toilet cleaners in the gelf.

[@supremercommonder]

Mauryan Chandra Gupta was from Gandahara kpk of Pakistan today he was dardic mostly neolthic iranic+step Aryan with little AASI like today Pakistan hindowans. He was ethically close to what Pakistani are less Indian as Indians have AASI dna

[@Mani-my8ob]

What?? His capital was patliputra,india

[@supremercommonder]

@@Mani-my8ob Yh but gandhara use to be apart of ancient Punjab

[@Mani-my8ob]

@@supremercommonder Patliputra is in Bihar,Patna India,nothing to do with Punjab or gandhara

[@Tyler___Durden]

😂😂😂

[@bg53rockylayek4]

😂😂 someone told him that Pakistan name didn't exist before 1947😂😂 it was india , is takhshashila Urdu word ? Peshawar , Lahore , all name came from Sanskrit not Urdu

[@MagnusGalactusOG]

Good to see brilliant people like Randal Carlson and Graham Hancock surpassing people like you in every way. Old school archeology is outdated and obsolete. Have fun on your way out.

[@averycardosia2486]

Randall Carlson is a blowhard and Graham Hancock is a grifter

[@dangerous_ideas16]

Only if Graham Hancock is an archeologist.

[@MagnusGalactusOG]

@@dangerous_ideas16 He's a journalist that works with professionals from many fields. Archeologists, geologists, engineers, historians etc. together they are exposing the disingenuous outdated mainstream academic BS. It's happening. Get over it.

[@anirudh177]

How is he wrong?

[@supremercommonder]

Taxila is in Pakistan

[@eliotanderson6554]

Aah here comes another joker to deindianze everything currently seperated due to Islamic jihadist partition

[@deadmanwalking6342]

THERE ARE NO CONSENSUS IN SCIENCE, MR WORLD OF ANTIQUES!

[@user-it4wy8mn1c]

Chanakya is also said to be a teacher at Taksha Shila aka Taxila

[@SashaStrayy]

Hey, so I have a proposal for you to make a video on. Maybe i am biased towards thinking this is more interesting than others would but i would love to see this analyzed from a true historians perspective. Brief background: i spent some years living in Northeastern Syria along the Khabur and spent a lot of time with rhe Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK). During this time i was a member in one of their academies which spent a lot of time discussing ancient history. Im not an archaeologist or historian but I have the strong feeling the majority of the history lessons were sketchy. A lot of these ideas can be found in volume one of Manifesto for a Democratic Civilization (the age of masked gods and disguised kings, specifically section two titled "the main sources of civilization"), one of the foundational books for the current ideology of the PKK. It would be controversial, almost unnecessarily so, but could serve as a lesson in how history can be manipulated for political motives in the very place where much of this history happened. Im supportive of many of the PKK's intentions but wow, that academy was really filled with some very blatant bullshit. I wiped most of that from my brain. The book shouldnt be as bad as those lessons. David Graeber wrote the introduction. But there is a strong tendency to label everything as "aryan" or "proto-kurd." Even the ancient Egyptians.

[@WorldofAntiquity]

Do you have a copy of the book?

[@a.juchter]

When England was discovered in 1984, they stumbled upon stone age hunters.........oh wait! They didn't!

[@pattheplanter]

In 1976 two Australian Aborigines discovered England at what is now called Dover and planted a flag to claim it for their nation.

[@a.juchter]

@@pattheplanter Right! So, 1976, not 1984. Got it!