Was the angel who visited Joseph Smith named Moroni or Nephi? Ep. 147

[@thekolobsociety]

Good stuff. Thanks for all the hard work you guys put into these.

[@davidp5114]

The editing on the Faith and Belief episodes is excellent. I'm consistently impressed. Very good production quality.

[@majesticliberatoroftheoppr3971]

Great job as always! Keep up the good work.

[@graysonmilne3359]

This is odd… a couple minutes before this video uploaded I was thinking of why Moroni visited Joseph instead of/with Nephi without any previous influence. Definitely a surreal premonition from the Holy Spirit.

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Wow! That's actually so cool.

[@rconger384]

What makes sense to me is The abridged part was delivered by Moroni heir of Mormon. The small plates were delivered by Nephi or an heir of Nephi. We have the wagon journey from Harmony to Fayette when Joseph spoke with a walking traveler who wore a backpack. And then when a similar person showed plates to Mary Whitmer. And the account of how David Whitmer needed to plaster the fields but found the work was already done by some men who worked speedily and expertly, again not an angel, but similar person or persons to the traveler account and the Mary Whitmer account. And so there could have been Angel Moroni AND translated person Nephi or one of the three. And the plates being delivered to Joseph in two different sets. Not contradicting at all anything Brother Snell has said here today, but doesn't the record allow for all of this?

[@trevorlarsen3209]

Grayson that is awesome! I’ve had several really cool similar experiences too with timing like that. My favorite quote about that subject is by Joseph Smith, and I think you’ll find it helpful: 'A person may profit by noticing the first intimation of the spirit of revelation; for instance, when you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas, so that by noticing it, you may find it fulfilled the same day or soon; . . . those things that were presented into your minds by the Spirit of God, will come to pass; and thus by learning the Spirit of God and understanding it, you may grow into the principle of revelation, until you become perfect in Christ Jesus.' Hope that helps!

[@jamesmccampbell7177]

Nicely prepared and brought out. Excellent job to those who brought this to light.

[@DannyAGray]

This was not an issue I'd ever heard of. Nice to know!

[@ruicraner4693]

this is one of the reasons why my husband went through a faith Crisis now a faith transition. He did not trust Joseph he lied and couldn't get his story right. I wish he would watch this but he has no desire too, it's all negative stuff he's interested in thank you for sharing this

[@4jgarner]

Maybe he would watch this with you if you would watch some of the other stuff with him that he wants to watch. 🤷🏿

[@terencelamb1382]

Thank you for that. So many people out things out there with no references and so much opinion that rid one is refreshing and so clear to understand. Good job.

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@rachelczumaya2806]

@4:18 “one error that kept getting reprinted” just like the doctrinal errors with the priesthood ban: one error that kept getting regurgitated over time based on a misinterpretation of doctrine.

[@westonwoodbury3011]

And just like the error of polygamy being pushed over and over, when Joseph never practiced or taught it. In fact just the opposite is true.

[@RussellFineArt]

Perfect example of how an error creates a big diversion such as when Benjamin Winchester writes in his Philadelphia church newspaper that he theorizes the Book of Mormon lands were in Central America, taken from John Lloyd Stephens book on the Maya. The church paper is mailed to William Smith in Nauvoo in 1842, who is over typesetting the Times & Seasons church paper where William quotes Winchester's Book of Mormon--Central America Mayan theory, when Joseph Smith was out of town, in hiding, and boom, we have the whole Book of Mormon Mesoamerica theory, which was based on nothing but a lame opinion and speculation from Winchester. When Joseph returned to Nauvoo he immediately released both William Smith and Benjamin Winchester from their callings, scolded them and the Mesoamerica theory is never seen again in the T&S and was NEVER spoken of or written by Joseph Smith, however, the false theory and error still lingers today despite the fact that God commanded Joseph to send missionaries to THE Lamanites in sections 28, 30, 32 of the Doctrine & Covenants, which Joseph did, and sent them only to: NY, OH, IN, IL, MO and NEVER any to Mexico, Central America or South America, nor did any prophet for over 70 years. And Joseph Smith repeatedly testified that the mounds and skulls of the ancient Mound Builders of OH, IN, IL, MO were the Nephites and Lamanites and that is their land, the land of the Book of Mormon, near where Moroni hid the records of his people in the same cave that's still in the Hill Cumorah today. Joseph Smith testified that evidence will come from the ground to testify of the Book of Mormon and that time has come. Truth will prevail.

[@westonwoodbury3011]

Awesome, push against the Arringtonites progressive nonsense.

[@brentgarner3143]

👍well done 👏 love you guys

[@andcrafter4790]

i appreciate the use of the psych sound effects

[@HelloBye-2000]

Hey! I been watching you guys for a few years now, where is the original team at?? 😟

[@brettmajeske3525]

They graduated.

[@HelloBye-2000]

😭😭😭

[@knotskieskyramirez9491]

Unless a member have personal encounter or experienced with the spiritual realm they most probably hate this church. God will not withhold any blessings anyone asking him in faith, but I believe there must be great exercise of faith before it comes as it is.

[@mikeonthecomputer]

I don't think I ever heard of this controversy before. Neat stuff :)

[@commoncents5191]

Nephi one of the three nephites may have had a part in the restoration hence the confusion.

[@p_ter2934]

Bro, the book of mormon doesn't say the names of the three nephites

[@ScripturalMormonism]

Good video. That chime sound though . . . *nails on chalkboard*

[@SaintsUnscripted]

yikes! Sorry about that. Thank you so much for watching, though :)

[@TheServantBarberMario]

Would Elohim allow Joseph Smith to make such a mistake to cause contradiction? Im trying to think of a prophet from the bible who was contradicted, but cant think of any....

[@hillbillytarzan]

Nephi strangely reminds me of Nephilim

[@bbctons1238]

Mormo is a demon name in the satanic Bible. The angel that visited smith if it really happened. Gave him a demon name because he didn’t come from heaven but from hell.. search for the name Mormo in the satanic Bible .

[@geobun2734]

Wouldn’t be surprised if who he saw was a deceiving nephilim, by the way they still exist Aka evil spirits

[@archangel_one]

Because everything fits.

[@ChrisToohey-j2j]

​@@archangel_oneor the term 'Neophite"

[@cartermode1583]

What about Mary Whitmer?

[@johnnylopez6413]

What happened to the video you posted about Jesus today?

[@archangel_one]

Joseph said that he was an "Angel of Light," and this I believe.

[@ACA_HURRICANE]

1842 was the year joseph smith was the editor of times and season why was it still published and not corrected by him if he was the editor?

[@beefmaster4]

Skimmed over it?

[@archangel_one]

Because every single word was very important -- they went over them many times. Apparently, the name of the angel was not as important as the and's, if's, and or's.

[@seans5289]

Where does an angelic messenger come from when it visits someone on earth? Where does it go afterward?

[@Hala-ataa]

In the record, Moroni tells Joseph that he was “sent from the presence of God.” So I assume that’s where he returned to after.

[@seans5289]

@@Hala-ataa: Is there any location that isn’t in the presence of god?

[@Hala-ataa]

@@seans5289 yes. The scriptures are replete with examples of people who are banished from the presence of God, starting with Adam and Eve and then Cain. I don’t profess to know exactly who is in which category all the time, but there is such thing as not being in His presence. I actually believe that’s the definition of hell, which is to be separated from God. These definitions are spiritual though. I’m sure Angel Moroni was speaking more literally that he left from a very close physical proximity to God to visit Joseph.

[@seans5289]

@@Hala-ataa: So, my question remains: Where did Moroni come from and go to speak with Joseph?

[@Hala-ataa]

@@seans5289 the presence of God sounds like heaven to me.

[@bigman1942]

That whole church is all about that 10%

[@BettyHorn]

Like you, a non-issue to me.

[@gergenskits3940]

it is a running joke in my family that my parent's when they are trying to call one of us, almost invariably they will use the wrong name. I have been called by the names of my brothers more often than by my own name, I'm certain. heaven forbid someone in the 1830's should ever misspeak a name.

[@dsbennett]

People wander off from the Iron Rod and get involved in endless controversies and lose their way to the tree. The people who make it to heaven are those who focus on the Lord and are not pulled to the side by the bad guy.

[@jamesroe4968]

I agree it's insignificant to the overall power of the farce of Mormonism 😅

[@DatZ0b]

What kind of angel is Moroni (rank/title/purpose) and how come God didn't send Gabriel for such an important task? Even false prophet Muhammad knew the importance of claiming it was Gabriel who visited him in the cave when he claimed to recieve revelations about the Quran.

[@gideonqwikfut4622]

I've been trying to learn more about the LDS church, still not sure if Joseph Smith is a reliable source or not

[@TheSevengems]

Have you talked to a member of that church yet?

[@gideonqwikfut4622]

@@TheSevengems I've talked to a couple missionaries

[@TheSevengems]

Better yet have you read the book of mormon and taken on its challenge to know for youresrlf?

[@rebeccap4611]

I've been learning too. There's a lot of conflicting information, but I love the church.

[@gideonqwikfut4622]

@@TheSevengems I'm reading through The Book of Mormon. I'm in Alma

[@purpleboye_]

Antis destroyed again

[@ryan1usu]

Samsonite! I was way off. Big gulps, huh. Whelp, see ya later!

[@hillbillytarzan]

Galatians 1:6-9

[@ronphilbargayo9610]

Ang ganda ng kwento mo

[@johndavolta3124]

Didn't Muhammad get visited by an angel also? Hmmm

[@brenttesterman3171]

Interesting that the BIBLE is never quoted.

[@archangel_one]

Why would it be? The bible is God's Word. God says things like... Isa_43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

[@TheJoesWorld]

There were both of them, appearing to Joseph... But Moroni told him, not to tell anybody you saw us together, so later Joseph just messed it up, who appeared to him, Moroni or his friend 🤣👌

[@TheJoesWorld]

@@wes2176 Ok, but this concept is more interesting and funny as well 🙃

[@uyshdhdhhd4216]

First published and last day second coming of The church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints only one Church in world history God planes not man plans you little baby. aske God .He will answer ok

[@djennings-DDS]

Hmm interesting points. The basis of this idea is trusting that it truly was a clerical error. I wonder why Joseph Smith wouldn’t have corrected the error; as he allowed the reference of the Angel Nephi to be perpetuated & never attempted to retract the mistake

[@djennings-DDS]

@@wes2176 4:10 it says that the reference to Angel Nephi was printed in the 1851 Peal of Great Price, which was after Joseph Smith's death, right?

[@kenton6804]

Joseph wasn't an editor of the Times and Seasons, and 1842 was a bit of a rough year for him. He may have held the title of editor, but John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff edited it. It may have been overlooked or left unquestioned at the time, considering that they had bigger things like the Wentworth letter to discuss.

[@archangel_one]

Because every single word was very important -- they went over them many times. Apparently, the name of the angel was not as important as the and's, if's, and or's.

[@Ryker2608]

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

[@archangel_one]

Rev_16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

[@sampathrathnayaka3905]

Joseph Smith sr's dream was told by Lucy Smith it was the mistake of scribes because it's very similar to Lehi's dream and now Angel Nephi instead of Moroni is also a problem with the scribes. I was thinking are those accounts only accountable when they are only written? why not when they were passing by generation to generation as what they heard and learned? Joseph Smith miraculously avoided his story to be edited before it goes to print?

[@seans5289]

@@wes2176: Muslims use this same argument for the Quran. They claim it would have been impossible for Muhammad to write it himself, therefore it came from god. How would you explain the difference between the impossibility of the Book of Mormon and the impossibility of the Quran?

[@sampathrathnayaka3905]

@@wes2176 well do you have any evidence that Joseph Smith ever got golden plates? Smith took 90 days to dictate book of mormon ,compare to other oral speakers that was too long time.smith had the story in his mind and he created the story as it goes along.Joseph smith was a very good preacher and a story teller.

[@seans5289]

@@wes2176: Wouldn’t any natural explanation be more likely to be true than an explanation involving supernatural events and powers?

[@seans5289]

@@wes2176: I see. So, would you say that angelic messengers are more likely than elaborate tricks?

[@seans5289]

@@wes2176: I’ve read the Book of Mormon several times. Is that really the metric by which you take people seriously? Did my question seem like a joke of some kind?

[@bartoszczarnotta5806]

I think there is at least one denomination within the broader LDS movement that still maintains that it was Nephi. Anyway, great job.

[@redfightblue]

How did Moroni appear after his death but before the morning of the first resurrection?

[@TaylorYorgason]

In the same way that Moses and Elijah appeared to Peter, James, and John on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus Christ. He must've been "translated" before he died, so as to enable him to carry out his work in the last days.

[@joedunn4540]

The first resurrection began with Christ. People were resurrected immediately after Christ - stories of the dead walking again are in BoM and NT. Many ancient prophets/apostles have been resurrected and appeared - Peter, James, Moses, Elijah, Elias, Moroni. That we know about.

[@redfightblue]

@@wes2176 I had that same opinion for many years. That's why I've spent the last 20 years researching the answer. Now I know exactly where it came from. Maybe in 20 years you'll know too? At the very least, your comment does not apply to me so you can't keep saying it as if no one has the answer.

[@forromaranhense8503]

@@wes2176 VIEW OF THE HEBREWS DE ETHAN SMITH! And THE LATE WAR ! = THE book OF mórmon

[@forromaranhense8503]

@@wes2176 O livro de mórmon é muito parecido com os livro VIEW OF THE HEBREWS DE ETHAN SMITH lançado em 1823 e o livro THE LATE WAR LANÇADO EM 1816! É muita coincidência mas os mórmons escondem isso, o livro de mórmon surgiu depois! Só em 1830! Então quem plagiou quem?

[@MichaelSmith-fq3pg]

Mistakes, misprints, misinterpretations, speaking as a man or speaking as a prophet. Yep, must be God's one true church.

[@jasongast1806]

Men are not perfect . If you think that’s bad wait until you find out what Paul and Noah did

[@timneji]

To expect a perfect church, perfect people and perfect prophets is a really Christian thing. You should talk to some Jews to see how they talk about the errors of prophets.

[@Sunshine-eo2sp]

going to church and expecting perfect people is like going to a hospital and expecting healthy people.

[@RussellFineArt]

Did you not watch the video? Joseph NEVER said it was Moroni, his scribe did, which is where the error came from.

[@MichaelSmith-fq3pg]

@@RussellFineArt There's always an excuse or special reason or exception or "commandment" or whatever. Every time you hope for something consistent and reliable, it always gets disappoints. Sorta like how prophets are "just people" whenever it's needed to explain away some shortcoming. Deuteronomy 18:18-22 is always conveniently ignored at such moments.

[@georgemonde8237]

🤣

[@joedunn4540]

Day two of asking for a reference to be given for the John Taylor quote in the last video...

[@sarahdougall9535]

@@wes2176 I see that you have spent quite some time in this comment section mentioning this, why don't you go out and research it properly instead of harassing the comment section of a KZbin video?

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Hey Joe! What is the timestamp of that quote?