Was X-Men: The Last Stand Really That Bad?

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[@thel1355]

It wasn't terrible, which by today's standards is a glowing recommendation.

[@anubusx]

The Juggernaut meme is still brilliant.

[@baahcusegamer4530]

lol! True enough

[@heartlessangel2910]

We were spoilt back then.

[@IncognitoActivado]

Terrible is 1/10; that's not accurate.

[@maximusjackassicus3042]

I'll give you that one, that compared to the absolute horse shit marvel is flinging at us today, "Last Stand" was a masterpiece. However, at the time I absolutely hated it!!

[@scofield117]

We didn’t realize how good we had it back then. I’d take another Last Stand over anything the MCU has put out the last 5 years in a heartbeat.

[@GlenLentz]

I know I thought this movie was shit when it came out but after what we got for about the last 8 years, I went back and watched this and a few other movies I thought sucked back then and thought "maybe I judged these a bit unfairly."

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

Agreed, I've always enjoyed this movie personally. I have come to appreciate it even more because it feels so different than the MCU. Feels much more mature.

[@GlenLentz]

@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp back then, yeah I shit on it a lot but still liked the action scenes and whatnot but the movie itself is still pretty enjoyable I have to say, I've only come to like it more and I think the movies like Days of Future Past and Apocalypse almost made it age better as part of that continuity too, I don't know, that's just an opinion.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

@@GlenLentz Yeah, I agree with that as well.

[@Noname15514]

* 10 years.

[@grandmufftwerkin9037]

Wait until the MCU massacres the X-Men.

[@doberski6855]

You mean you don't think that Disney and the MCU has learned it's lesson with DeadPool and Wolverine, and that both the Fantastic Four and X-Men reboots will be brilliant and well done? I am shocked! I tell you sir, shocked! 🤣NOT.

[@anubusx]

I read Hugh Jackman will still be playing Wolverine.

[@yol_n]

​@@anubusx isnt bro dead 😂

[@bradmyers5998]

Lol I won’t be watching but I will watch the reviews 😂

[@hardwire5000]

@@anubusx Until he's 90!

[@klattson112]

If made by today's modern message, Jean grey would not only be forgiven for killing Charles, but celebrated. "live your truth, Jean. You're amazing."

[@Ironica82]

"Mutant and proud" 🙄

[@dogwklr]

Yassss Queen!

[@wasim.j]

@@dogwklr lol and for once, she actually would be slaying...

[@awesomehpt8938]

Kelsey Grammar was a great choice to play beast.

[@jasonmaclean719]

His casting was the high point of the movie for me. He was spot on

[@syntaxusdogmata3333]

☝100% this.

[@Clintdaddy412]

Facts 💯

[@kubla5hundred]

Definitely demonstrably a wrong POV concerning Kelsey Grammar as the Beast. First, as a graduate of the inaugurate class of Prof Xavier's School of Gifted Students, Hank McCoy wholeheartedly embraced his Homo Superior-ness and was a vocal advocate for Mutant acceptance as a member of the Avengers in the 1970's. As told by Roger Stern, Hank McCoy mutated HIMSELF into the Furry Beast as his original mutations presented mostly as a passable Homo Sapiens. His intent in doing so was to demonstrate publicly his solidarity with those mutants who couldn't pass for Homo Sapiens like Warren Worthington or the Summers brothers. Then someone on this movie production twisted Hank MCCoy's character to one that psychologically suffers under his physical mutations despite the fact he holds a public position high in the USA presidential administration. That's like twisting MLK's "I have a dream" into "Once all blacks bleach their skin, straighten their hair and style themselves as Nordic socialists, American society can be at peace with it self." (See the Shogun of Harlem for the correct response to that scenario) After that brain fuck, the script given Kelsey Grammer was devoid of four to five syllable words that would force the 8 to 12 year old audience members running for their dictionaries OR oblique references to classical literary writers, composers or scientists. Go pick up any issue featuring the Beast penned by Stan Lee, Roy Thomas, Denny O'Neill, Roger Stern or Chris Claremont if you don't know what I mean. Lastly, because I can go on for another hour on this topic, "Oh My Stars and Garters" was not YELLED at a critical juncture in the action alerting all the heroes of the gravity of the situation. It sucked as bad as Chris Evans' "Avengers Assemble" in End Game or (Oh Stan, forgive them for what they did) Namor's "Imperious Rex" in Wakanda Forever. Catch phrases are NOT to be MUMBLED, just look at any word bubble pre 1990 containing the words "Oh My Stars and Garters". Ask yourself, who would Bart Simpson be if he only ever whispered "Kowabunga" or his father groaned "Doh" under his breath. Yes, these points have nothing to do with Kelsey Grammer. However, he is only an actor and his lack of familiarity with the source material meant he had no reason to push back on the pile of unmentionables he was given. That's why he was a terrible casting choice. NUFF SAID

[@jasonmaclean719]

@@kubla5hundred that's nice. And to the majority of fans who had their start because of the cartoon he was about as accurate as we'd get.

[@jonathankozenko]

Brett Ratner can be a competent Director from time to time, but nothing about Red Dragon or Rush Hour 1 & 2 would've made one say: "Oh - he'd be PERFECT for an X-Men movie!!" In a sense, he was the warning that the Producers of The Eternals should've paid attention to.

[@crazyralph6386]

Red Dragon was a huge disappointment also. Much preferred Michael Mann’s 80’s version “Manhunter”? That ending shootout with the police to Iron Butterfly, is a thing of beauty .

[@anthonylogiudice9215]

Last Stand was the worst X-Men film up until the Apocalypse and Phoenix films with Jennifer Lawrence.

[@anubusx]

New Mutants was terrible.

[@chatwithaninja]

Did you mean Sophie Turner as Phoenix? Jennifer Lawrence was mystique and pretty good IMO

[@Angrist17]

X-Men Origins: Wolverine would like a word.

[@Ironica82]

@@Angrist17 Nah. It had it's problems but it was still a nice popcorn flick.

[@itsblitz4437]

What you have against Jennifer Lawrence?

[@chance_ondriezek99]

This movie’s not great, but it looks like a masterpiece compared to Origins: Wolverine.

[@anthonylogiudice9215]

Wolverine Origins was better and Liv Schreiber makes up for its failings.

[@doberski6855]

🤣👍

[@ninjanibba4259]

Overhated

[@JewTube001]

@@anthonylogiudice9215 It doesn't, at least if you have to watch the rest of the movie besides the Sabertooth parts it doesn't. When the B plot is stronger than the A plot then you movie has issues.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

​@@ninjanibba4259agreed

[@dmhendricks]

I hated that: - They killed Jean Gray, Charles Xavier - They made Magneto, Mystique impotent - They made Scott a loser - They didn't kill Rogue That said, the movie was a lot better than the trash they've been releasing since 2021.

[@Ironica82]

If you are talking about having their powers taken away, they come back before the end credits. However, considering Magneto moved an entire bridge, I think he still fought well and it showed the humans actually adapting with using plastic guns/bullets.

[@michaelbell6894]

Why should they have killed Rogue?

[@shadowdramon01]

Funny enough, the co-writer of this film wrote and directed the last X-Men film Dark Phoenix, much of which is an almost beat-for-beat remake of this film, as his redemption for helping to make The Last Stand, and made Dark Phoenix even worse.

[@Lastjustice]

Hollywood seems forget to make the woodpile before creating a bonfire. If they never give the audience a reason to connect with Jean grey as a character, her becoming the phoenix and going wild doesn't carry much weight with the audience. They are so set on the destruction of things, they aren't willing do the proper build up. The original phoenix/dark phoenix was a big deal because Grey was the nicest girl, and was always thought of as the weakest member of the Xmen. The films barely touch on her as a character, and jump right to her going phoenix and lack any of the other aspects of why she had make sacrifices as it such as to protect the universe above her own desires. To put a human host full of emotion at the helm of godly power, and not have it corrupt or overwhelm it. (later they retconned it to where Jean wasn't the phoenix in the comics, but then they made her become the phoenix again anyways.)

[@SeansWorld420]

It was perceived as bad compared to X1 and 2, but out of all the Fox Xmen movies its somewhere in the middle, not the best not the worst.

[@Fiveash-Art]

I liked First Class better than all three of em'.

[@StreetPreacherr]

X2 is overrated. And I was just waiting for Stryker to start telling everyone to FUCK OFF!

[@eskanda3434]

@@Fiveash-Artfirst class is meh

[@Fiveash-Art]

@@eskanda3434 Says you. I liked it. I don't care for Bryan Singer's stuff .. He's got some great sequences, but overall I think his movies are a bit dull. First Class was good fun .. All that 'Children of the Atom' stuff set in the Cold War era .. that and they did a great job with the classic X-Men Blue and Yellow flight suits. Magneto was badass and I loved his theme music. .. Besides that Michael Ironside makes an appearance ... Any movie with that dude in it scores a point for me. 😁

[@batman5224]

My frustration is that the X-Men franchise loses all sense of continuity after Last Stand. In Days of Future Past, there’s suddenly a robotic apocalypse and Professor X is alive again. It was as if there was a missing film that was never made. At the end of Future Past, it’s also unclear how much of the original trilogy actually happened after the time travel. In Logan, we yet again get a hush time jump. Everyone was fine at the end of Future Past, but now there’s an apocalypse again? The continuity just doesn’t add up. At least the first three films felt like a complete story.

[@JaidynReiman]

The post credits scene of Last Stand implies Charles came back, but yeah they really screw it up. The post credits scene of Last Stand has Charles waking up and saying "Moira". Moira than says "Charles", again, implying Charles had a backup plan. I guess the idea is he had a braindead twin brother and when Jean killed him, he shifted his consciousness into his twin brother. It was set up at the end of Last Stand, but Last Stand not being well liked kinda ruined it. What is also annoying though is when we get to events set decades prior... we see a significantly younger Moira. Which basically shows they abandoned their original plan for Moira after Last Stand.

[@Angrist17]

They're all more fun if you ignore the timeline.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

The continuity is messy. Works well enough that you can ignore some things, but should've been tighter. Also, Professor X was revealed to move his conciseness to a comatose twin of Charles that they introduced earlier. And The Wolverine movie is what teases Days of Future Past with its mid credit scene. Teases Trask Industries and sees the return of Professor X and Magneto together. Talking about an upcoming conflict that's coming. That leads us to Days of Future Past.

[@FailsafeZero]

I don't even really think of them as connected.

[@kpsk8031]

Compared to Madame Webb, Morbius, The Marvels it is the Citizen Kane of comic book movies.

[@WhatsNextVideos]

My BIGGEST problem is Magneto shrugging of Xavier's death, and using fellow mutants as pawns. The screenwriter CLEARLY doesn't understand Magneto.

[@ninjanibba4259]

He never shrugged it off, what are you on about?

[@LtFoodstamp]

Great movie, with glaring problems: 1. The killing of Scott and Xavier (fans didn't want that) 2. The Phoenix story being done differently (fans had another expectation) 3. Magneto chose to make his home base in the woods where there is no metal (lol, what?) 4. The underutilization of Kelsey Grammar as Beast (fans wanted more). 5. The Phoenix doesn't do much except stand there to be Wolverine's life interest (weak writing for the most badass female character in the X-Men franchise) Take away the first problem, and we could have let the other stuff slide. But in combination, it was just a bit too much.

[@Lastjustice]

There's too many things happening, as the whole cure was a big enough story beat on it's own. Jean never got build up enough as a character for the audience to really care about her being unleashed. She wasn't really a chaarcter, but a plot device who stood around for the majority of the movie. The dark phoenix/phoenix thing was wasted as a subplot to this movie.(it's sad they bothered fumbled thru this storyline idea twice.) You could put any generic but powerful henchman in her place and the movie would been largely the same.

[@ClarkWahlberg-bo3oh]

It's not as bad as X-Men Apocalypse. 😒

[@brunorocha1328]

Word

[@mkno2799]

Or new mutants.

[@anthonylogiudice9215]

@@mkno2799 or Dark Phoenix

[@crazyralph6386]

It still blows my mind that they cast a sissy boy with a falsetto voice as one of the most epic MCU villains of all time??? He was not imposing or scary, just some Ivan Ooze larper aimlessly walking the earth.

[@bigpesoproductions1413]

And Dark Phoenix

[@trey1941able]

I enjoyed Last Stand actually.

[@kubla5hundred]

Your opinion is fine and has value but we are talking about a movie where some random nobody character gets the drop on Wolverine IN A WOODED SETTING. If you don't know what's wrong with that, pick up a classical X-Men reprint PLEASE.

[@AlexWalkerSmith]

John Powell's score is absolutely amazing, and as a composer myself I am influenced by it to this day. His score for the scene where professor Xavier meets his end, the desperation of Wolverine clawing his way slowly across the ceiling trying to reach him, has an unmatched balance of intense action and emotional weight. Powell reuses these ideas during the final battle as well, with Logan trying to reach Jean herself, this time with a touch of epic choirs. One of my all-time favorite film scores. 👍🏻

[@philipontacos7568]

100% yes. I read all the comic's, this is a horrible nightmare compared to the comic's.

[@Clintdaddy412]

They absolutely butchered the Phoenix saga and Days of futures past.

[@TentaclePentacle]

in the comics did they bring back xavier with some aliens cloning him? Or did I remember wrong?

[@matthewronson5218]

comics

[@arc7375]

The movie was so bad, the studio had to start a new continuity and series of prequel films to utterly recon Last Stand out of existence. It literally took them the best part of a _decade_ to undo the damage caused by Last Stand…and then after fixing it, go onto make the same mistakes again.

[@thomasalvarez6456]

It's flaws come from the same problems as spider man 3. Too many different comic plot lines and characters cramed into two hours.

[@Lastjustice]

Agreed. The whole phoenix needed to be it's own focus as the whole cure story beat was enough to tackle on it's own.

[@geekhomeworld4248]

XMen 97 was the only iteration of XMen that did Cyclops justice. Cyclops was always my favorite XMen character.

[@mikavirtanen7029]

When it comes to Fox-Men movies it's a frigging masterpiece compared to Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix.

[@marklotinga]

Fox-Men, l like that.

[@baahcusegamer4530]

I hated the movie for killing off a favorite character (cyclops) from the get go and turning an otherwise likable lady hero into a villain (Phoenix). Oh, and they killed Xavier. Will never watch the movie again for these reasons.

[@476429]

Compared to what has come out over the past several years, The Last Stand is Shakespeare.

[@Lastjustice]

Naah it's still not good. Just because horse manure tastes bad doesn't make dog crap suddenly delicious.

[@-Ryu]

Considering the state of superhero movies today, I honestly think X-Men: The Last Stand, by comparison, holds up well.

[@qdllc]

As I understood it, the actor who plays Cyclops wasn’t available to do the whole movie. Killing off his character was the solution. The alternative would have been to find a new actor to play Cyclops.

[@Lastjustice]

Or just injure Cyclops to where he was sidelined for a bit. Killing him was the spite play from execs. Him being around for Jean to die or having to play a role in her death would made it a bigger deal.

[@86BarbOmega]

Or just not film it when he is doing another movie OR they should have locked their cast into contracts. and Marsden I can understand would rather play the "other guy" to Clark Kent/Supes for Lois Lane (lame choice) but considering how they did Scott Summers/Cyclops dirty in these movies I can see why he'd look for other roles. Overall, Marsden should fire his agent.

[@dontemorgan1517]

They're are a lot of cool parts like the opening sequence with Angel, Kelsey is great as Beast, Magneto ripping of the bridge, and the final battle with X-Men vs an army of Brotherhood of Mutants. What I hated about Last Stand is Magento don't share of care when Xavier died, too much storyline cramp into one, the portrayed of Juggernaut who has no connection to Xavier and doesn't look right, where the hell is Nightcrawler, Angel was completely wasted and only shows up at the end of the film to save his dad. Overall, it's not great, but it's way better than X-Men: Dark Phoenix.

[@haitolawrence5986]

When you actually realize that you no longer give a flying f*ck. The restful sleep is beyond incredible.

[@pauloconnor6280]

I enjoyed it even with them treating Phoenix dirty. Dark Phoenix is one of my favorite villains in Marvel and would love to see her properly represented in a movie.

[@ereini0n]

I enjoyed the X-Men trilogy much more than any modern MCU, and I'd watch Last Stand twice before Ragnarok or Endgame again

[@HungryManticore]

What they did with the Juggernaut in this film was criminal.

[@Lastjustice]

And never had him fight Collossus.

[@cmedtheuniverseofcmed8775]

It's a complicated answer when it comes to the Last Stand. - I think The Last Stand was made better with The Wolverine (2013) and Days of the Future Past, which utilized the aftermath of The Last Stand's story. - It's one of those cases where future movies (at least until Dark Phoenix) actually redeemed The Last Stand. - However, I agree that Xavier's return was never handled right. All they needed was a few extra lines of dialogue explaining how Xavier came back to life, but they never really explained it. Heck, they could have made an argument that this Xavier is from another universe where his original X-Men were completely wiped out. Anything would have worked instead of saying nothing to the audience.

[@Brumsey99989]

It’s amusing how the overflowing outhouse we call modern cinema has caused the trash of the past seem competent, even entertaining.

[@grandmufftwerkin9037]

No, however it was pretty mediocre. The X-Men films seemed to lack a coherent plan of direction, with some being great and others being squibs.

[@PoolKid75]

I actually liked The Last Stand more than X-Men 1 and 2. I never understood why it was so hated. Professor X's death scene is extremely underrated, Kelsey Grammer's casting as Beast is spot-on perfect, Magneto lifting the entire Golden Gate Bridge was amazing, Wolverine killing Jean was sad as heck, and the double twist endings of Professor X transferring his consciousness to another body and Magneto moving the metal chess piece after he lost his powers were both great. IMO the movie does not deserve the scorn it gets at all.

[@weldsj8847]

It suffered next to the actual comics Phoenix saga. Like Dave says, you have to enjoy it for what it is. And what it is has some terrific action scenes. Gotta agree, the scene when Mystique gets hit by the "cure" and is case aside by Magneto has more power in it than most of what we get in today's entire movies.

[@Lastjustice]

It kills characters off pointlessly. You can feel the spite on screen. It wastes the phoenix concept, as Jean Grey is never given a proper build up as a character enough to care about her being destructed. Soon as I saw them going for the phoenix stuff in X2 I was filled with dread as I knew it wouldn't be done correctly. The Phoenix saga has alot of other elements that would be so much to cover on it's own let alone have the dark phoenix stuff tacked on it. The whole movie is a complete mess and if it wasn't for Days of Future Past bulldozing it, I doubt I'd forgiven it's terrible use of chaarcters. If you don't care about the Xmen, then can just enjoy a mindless action movie, but if you care about the characters and what to see things used properly it fails horribly.

[@86BarbOmega]

@@Lastjustice agreed 💯

[@NFStamper]

It clearly had its issues, but it wasn't unwatchable.

[@biguy617]

This movie should have given us a fight between Colossus and Juggernaut. That would have been better than Kitty vs Juggernaut.

[@AkuTenshiiZero]

Should also be noted that David Hayter was not involved in writing this one. That said, Kelsey Grammar was a fantastic choice for Beast and the practical makeup on him looks amazing.

[@paulaburrows8660]

I know it's far from the comics but I liked the Dark Phoenix take. They actually took time to lay the ground work in the previous movies. That scene in Jean's house is a stand out moment. The SFX, music, the performances and then what happened to Jean when she went Dark Phoenix was wonderfully creepy.

[@Lastjustice]

Jean wasn't invested in enough as character. She was barely established as anything personality wise, and the whole phoenix and dark phoenix thing is wasted as a concept. For her fall down you need the audience to care enough about her original character in the first place. You really don't, so it falls flat.

[@imakethesites3048]

You're right about Cyclops being underutilized. In most team up instances, the leader gets way more screen time. X-Men is different because Wolverine is far more popular and versatile, onscreen anyway.

[@Lastjustice]

Wolverine is better when he gets play off Cyclops. The two balance each other out as Wolverine is too headstrong, while Cyclops has a stick up his ass. No one ever pushes back on Wolverine in the movies really, and it takes away his character's role of being the shit stirrer of the team.

[@imakethesites3048]

@Lastjustice What is he rebelling against, aside from their superhero name?

[@Lastjustice]

@@imakethesites3048 Logan is angry about so many things, as he can't remember most of his life, and doesn't like being told what to do. He's a bit of a loner, but he needs people as much as he grumbles, he knows deep down the Xmen are good for him. He hates himself because he has killed so many people, and sees himself as a potential threat to the Xmen at times. He has alot going on, and the films gloss over this in the first 3 films. You see him struggle with his identity alot more in the following films like Wolverine. Cyclops is there to keep the plot going even when Logan craps the bed. Logan can't be the lose canon and the guy who drives the plot at the same time. That's why you can have these two play off each other. A love triangle only works if you have a reason to see both potential suiters win, but the movies dump on cyclops like he's lame every chance they get. (he's a wussy who listens to backstreet boys when they take his car.)The first film was the only time we really see them try make these two work things out between them. After that Cyclops keeps getting sidelined then killed.

[@86BarbOmega]

@@imakethesites3048 he's antisocial and a loner type, it kinda establishes that when we first meet him, when Rogue hitch hikes into his truck. He was gonna dump her on the road but because he is not a total pos, he gives her a lift. He doesnt like taking orders, he doesnt like following them, he doesnt like authority and does his own thing. A lone wolf type. Not a team player, his character arc was he worked with the others for their cause and to save Rogue (and the humans). The first film fleshes that out. Doesnt really flesh out the other Xmen team members much though.

[@GlenLentz]

Cyclops actually leaves the X-Men for a brief while in the comics too after Jean died so I can tell they were kind of borrowing from that storyline, that's around the time they brought in Kitty Pryde too. They could've had it where cyclops left for a while in the movie and then came back after collecting hisself and then helping in the end but then you probably wouldn't have had the scene of Logan stopping Jean at the end of the movie and maybe they thought it wouldn't conclude Logan's and Jean's love arc in the movie? I don't know.

[@86BarbOmega]

No no you were onto something there, they should have had Cyclops and Logan work together to stop Jean. One is the distraction while the other sneaks up on her. James Marsden was not fully available, but they could have him leave in the beginning of the film and have him come back at then end, so his scenes were minimal. Ya know? work around it. Movies arent shot in order, so it was possible to do pick up shots and use Marsden when his schedule allowed it, but nope, it is easy from X1 and X2 that the writers or execs arent fans of the Cyclops character, they wanted to spotlight and focus on Wolverine, which I get it, he is cool but not at the expense of other characters, that is weak and wack.

[@cpob2013]

I love the bit where magneto shuts down one of his followers bad mouthing Xavier. "Charles Xavier has done more for mutants than you can every know"

[@86BarbOmega]

Pyro. He is a hothead.

[@86BarbOmega]

Had they given Scott more to do and have him face off with Jean instead of Logan at the end, I would have liked it. Should have locked James Marsden into contract.

[@philversion1383]

Vinnie Jones as Juggernaught alone is reason to love this film!

[@DerekImpossible]

Here’s what I think X-men 3 should’ve had: -Scott’s recovery from Jean’s death to a fearless X-men leader (not kill him). -Not kill Charles. -Make Storm join Magneto, because she reached her peak of her hatred of humans; and have her ask Charles for forgiveness in the end. -Not have a love triangle with Rogue, Bobby, and Kitty. -Keep Jean Grey dead (until a next trilogy). & -Just make the film about the War of the Cure (though I’m not sure about that mutant kid that makes mutants pure human). Those are my thoughts about how X-men 3 should’ve been like. What do you think?

[@CoinOpTV]

I appreciated how much mutant vs mutant action movie this had compared to the other films.

[@j.r.cruzaguirre2734]

I have always appreciated this movie for what it did and what it tried to do. I agree completely with your assessment of it. I still find a lot to enjoy about it and the last third of the film is definitely the best part of it.

[@thisspaceforrent5737]

In my headcanon, Jean briefly came to her senses at the very last second, and managed to teleport Scott away from her. He's somewhere on the other side of the world on a boat with Aletys Forrester, trying to get back to the US and having adventures along the way.

[@michaelbell6894]

I remember when it came out, and I was told I was supposed to hate it. I was never sure why. Sure Cyclops was mistreated, but that was true of the entire series. The Phoenix story was disappointing, but they still have yet to get that right. I don't know, I thought it was fine.

[@MatadorMedia]

X-Men 3 screwed up by having both a Dark Phoenix story and the cure story in the same movie. For one, those two stories are completely unrelated. And two, you can't have Dark Phoenix without first having Phoenix (a mistake they erroneously double down on in the later film).

[@saladinbob]

I hated this movie, there are no words in Elvish, Entish or the tongues of Men to properly convey how much I despise this movie. The actors looked like they couldn't be arsed and didn't look like they were enjoying themselves, the death of Cyclops was a "meh" moment because the entire trilogy had done him dirty for the reasons you mention, there just isn't space in the comments for me to go through everything I hated because I literally hated every minute of this movie. It remains one of the worst films I've ever seen in my life. Last Stand shouldn't have been retconned, it should have been entirely removed from existence because it's a crime against art and given the era we live in, that should give you an idea of just how much I hate this film.

[@skylx0812]

I've only ever seen the first two films. I did like the theme "Logan and Rogue" from the X-Men soundtrack that was used when Logan let her absorb his healing power to save her life. It cost him by forcing him to relive his past injuries. The music is suprisingly moving.

[@MrStardust50]

And it's interesting that Kitty Pryde was played by a bloke.

[@YY-mi9rf]

Was X-Men: The Last Stand Really That Bad? Yes, it was horrible because they killed both leaders (Charles and Scott) in a horrible way immediately. Having said that, Dark Phoenix was boring AF so it's really a tossup or preference as to which movie was worse. Oddly, both killed the franchise.

[@Steve-du2nz]

It was ok. The scene where Wolverine had to kill Jean is pretty cool.

[@ninjanibba4259]

Short answer: No The issue is the script trying to do too much, but the interesting thing is…this is the only movie of the OG X-men that actually feels like X-men You got the humans vs mutants, the mutant battle, the Brotherhood (which aren’t even present in the first 2 movies) and the team finally working together and interacting, even more than the first movie, fights are great, stakes are high and people die, score is amazing I find this to be one of the better movies of the franchise, but like I said, it’s held back by the script

[@doberski6855]

Yeah sorry Mr. Cullen have to disagree sir. Both attempts to bring the 'Phoenix Dark Saga' to live action movies were very badly done. They had some brilliant source material from the comics and they failed to do it justice. Not the first time that has happened with a comic or a book, and sadly not the last.

[@eskanda3434]

one movie isnt enough for the phoenix saga. its literally a saga so unless they can spread it out over a trilogy dont bother again

[@doberski6855]

@@eskanda3434 Agreed the first failure of both movies is that they tried to do the Phoenix storyline in one film!

[@MGLeal]

I never hated The Last Stand but I hated that we didn’t get Arch Angel. The cartoon Wolverine & the X-Men I think did a good job pointing out the conflict between mutants who embrace who they are vs their human family who sees their mutation like a disease to be cured. They could’ve gone down that road more

[@MarauderAkeela]

I agree that the unceremonious death of cyclops is a bit wasted but I appreciate the loss of Prof X early gives time to really show how lost most of the X-men are without him as a moral guide and without the benefit of psychic powers from him and Jean. I think it would do better than a lot of the slop released in the last couple years if released today.

[@rossow88]

I enjoyed it at the time. But I do remember making a mental note about Cyclops' demise being very underwhelming, considering he was basically the captain of the team.

[@trublgrl]

The Last Stand was excellent. I'll die on this hill. It was a conclusion, it wrapped up the stories of the first two films, it was bold and written without regard to continuing the series. It is a failure of us, the comic/movie viewer that we cling to our status quo, we reject the toppling of the pillars of our fictional worlds, but that's what makes The Last Stand feel like an X-Men film to me. Thunderbird Died. To me the X-Men was a world where anything could happen, death was real, and the stakes were high. The WORST thing about modern X-Men in comics and films, is that everything comes back to the status quo. No living human being can count the number of times they rebuilt the X-Mansion. No one dies for more than a year. I love that Bret Ratner chose the chopping block for Scott and Professor X. That wasn't my Scott anyway, at least his death meant something, when his character hadn't for two films. It's good to feel the loss, that's the film making you feel _something._ How many recent films make you feel anything at all? Your outrage is the justification for the choices made.

[@michaelnash2138]

I wish they'd have ACTUALLY done the Dark Phoenix story. Introduced the Shi'ar, and the Imperial Guard and have the battle royale in the "Blue Area" at the Moon's south pole.

[@jacotromp59581]

It was a good middle of the road movie

[@mattkindig7460]

I always liked this film, but agree that the loss of Cyclops and Prof X hurt it, especially Cyclops because he was such a major character and pretty much died off screen. Too many purists hated this movie, but I was okay with most of the changes they did to all the X-men films, and I read the comic books for my entire childhood and teens. It was just OK compared to X2, and it ended up being a let down, so I think that’s why it gets a bad rep. After all the crap we’ve dealt with since 2016 I think people are getting a different view of it

[@hamthe3rd]

The main problem (and why it is the worst of the X-Men films, including New Mutants) is that it can't decide on which story to focus on, or which is more important. You have three plots that were major storylines in the comics, The Dark Phoenix saga, The Mutant cure (Dove Tailing from the Mutant Registration act that was delved into in previous movies) and the Morlock's Rising. Now, the Morlocks was mainly used to fill in characters from the storyline in Magneto's army, but was touched on and never given full credence, the Mutant Cure being wedged in for the backdrop of the gathering. The Dark Phoenix powers was overly broad and over the top (In both movies, btw) and condensed from the epic saga that was the cross over in the comics line. Part of this was licensing, as other Marvel characters became a part of this that were not mutants. Overall, this mess was the backdrop to some set pieces slammed together that were nice to see, but had no real connection to the overall plots that one had to trugde through to get to it. The best part of the film was the characters being able to do their lines, and Beast finally getting onscreen for more than a second. There was also the disappointment that the OG X-Men never had a single scene together as the team. (Angel, specifically, was only in the film to cry) It was really that bad. The answer to the question is "Yes."

[@GundamFireStorm]

I never really disliked this movie as some other people did. And I too recently rewatched this, like 5 months ago. And it wasn't so bad. Aside from some lines from Mystique : "I don't answer to my slave name!" And I groaned so hard!

[@SaltpeterTaffy]

My headcanon is that Patrick Stewart's fear of death compels him to ask the writers of everything he's in to bring him back to life.

[@christophercatiller2422]

I thought it was bad back then. Today, it’s average, which is passing by flying colors compared to what we get now.

[@kubla5hundred]

This movie is so perverse. Scott Summers suffers because his mutant power is uncontrollable and destroys anything he sees, forcing him to isolate himself from society. Hank McCoy mutated HIMSELF into the Furry Beast to better underscore society's need to look past the surface to accept a person for their deeds and qualities of self. The script writers kill Summers before introducing the 'Mutant Cure", then portrays McCoy as a mutant who wants his mutation suppressed via "The Cure". Why isn't anyone calling out the plot point of Wolverine getting surprised in a wooded setting by Husk? As if he would ever approach upwind? Really, no one? How about the Pyro - Ice Man fight? As if Mr. Drake wouldn't know Pyro CONTROLS fire, not MAKE fire. For the record, Chris Evans' human torch doesn't burn, that's Plasma not flame folks so nix that plot point from your Deadpool & Wolverine experience too! (Damn lazy writers) How much did that "I'm the Juggernaut Bitch" joke cost? My guess about 100,000 times more than the guys who invented that meme.

[@seanbaugh3239]

Dave, C'mon Bro... 🤨 Everybody knows (even if they don't want to admit it) that X-Men: Dark Phoenix is more like the comics, in terms of team chemistry, than ANY other X-Men movie ever made. Even if they butchered the Dark Phoenix storyline. There, I said it. Somebody had to. 😡... 😾... 😳 *"NUFF SAID"™*

[@walterscientist]

X-Men 2 was pretty much what I would consider a perfect X-Men movie. It felt like a big step up from the first X-Men and a lot of people had really high expectations for The Last Stand, expecting it to be at least as good as X-Men 2, if not better. The movie was alright, but it just did not click together nearly as nicely as X-Men 2. Combined with story elements that, in hindsight, may not have been such a great ideas - such as killing off Scott - I think people ended up being a lot more frustrated with the movie than the movie deserved. It was still way better than most Marvel stuff from the last 5 years.

[@mikecronis]

Deadpool's depiction of Juggernaut was vastly superior and one of X-Men's biggest foes; they can barely take him working all-together in the comics!

[@Rekuzan]

Deadpool actually 'undoes' the whole Cyclops being killed off thing with the introduction of Cable; son of Gene Gray and Scott Summers. He has a techno-organic virus and was sent to the future because the didn't have a cure in the present, blah blah blah, complicated.

[@Thecallmemisterajp]

I just remember them teasing Phoenix in X-2 and being really excited about it for like 3 years, only to get what we got.

[@mistymoonshine897]

I always thought that Xavier having the ability to find any mutant was kinda too much. Imagine you find your gift but keep it hidden and don't want to be part of some organization. with Xavier's gift chances are the X-Men will come to pick you up and, even if they accept your refusal, now you became someone they are aware of. having a gift, or a curse depending on how you think of it yourself, does not mean that you have to use it for any purpose, even to do good.

[@jackdaone6469]

They really should have had Charles walking when he shows up in Wolverine and in the Bad Future scenes of DOFP.

[@EndThusIAm]

I remember enjoying it on release and whenever I rewatch it I find myself more so focusing on the character's interactions to things like the cure, what it means to be a mutant at this point in their world, and of course how Wolverine has evolved over the course of the trilogy. There are still plenty of bumps, but without comparing to later films, I still felt it wasn't as horrible as people made it out to be.

[@pigglypoof]

I like the theme of evolution, how Jean evolved into the phoenix (I know that in the comics it’s different) and how the cure will reverse the person from mutant to non mutant, there’s something there but everything in this film is undercooked

[@jasonmaclean719]

As a fan of the books, I HATED they made Juggernaut a mutant and defeated him using the cure.

[@colinwatt9387]

If I had a nickle for every time a Patrick Stewart character was resurrected using bullshit space magic, I'd have two nickels, which is not a lot...

[@mavisbeacon6770]

Before I was aware of how any of these movies were viewed, I sat down and watched 1, 2 and 3 back to back. The dramatic drop in quality between 2 and 3 was instantly noticeable. It wasn't the worst thing I've ever seen, but still a HUGE step down.

[@Popesize]

The movie gave us Kelsey Grammer as Hank "Beast" McCoy. That alone makes it good. Even if everything else would suck (but it doesn't) it would still be enjoyable over the scenes where Beast is present.

[@davidm4566]

I assumed that Charles was using his powers to make everyone see him as his old self in the chair, which made no logical sense how he could continue to have any powers in another body.

[@greeb666]

Ok you missed the major sins of the film completely. The effects WRT Phoenix are beyond terrible. they remedied this a bit in Apocalypse, but even then they are not doing a great job with it. The follow up film is terrible so I won't even talk about it. Second and even worse, is totally screwing up Juggernaut. He is NOT a mutant, second he is way bigger than he is shown and far more powerful. Third, he is physically next to invulnerable. Deadpool 2 did a better job but still gets this totally wrong. Even worse in the deleted scenes you can see wolverine actually stabbing through Juggernaut. Lastly he is related to Xavier and they never get into his backstory at all.

[@Arkus]

Kelsey Grammar as Beast was amazing casting.

[@CarloCarrasco]

X-Men: The Last Stand really felt like two movies in one. The filmmakers tried fusing the Dark Phoenix and Mutant Cure concepts together but could not achieve it in a smooth and seamless fashion. At least the movie excelled with action and visual effects.

[@arc7375]

It was. It was clearly set up that Magneto’s machine, upon exploding, bathed the X-Men in radiation - with Jean being visibly affected by it. X2 literally states “since Liberty Island, you’ve been different” - and we see her gradually become Phoenix. And yet in Last Stand, they say it was a super-secret split personality that Xavier caged twenty-five years or so ago. And trying to combine a story as monumental as the Dark Phoenix saga with anything else is ridiculous. The writing was hammy, contrived and camp. The score was obnoxious and ostentatious instead of the more thoughtful, melancholy the series had found an identity in. It was atrocious. And yet, compared to today’s general standard of Marvel movie, it’d be “better than average” by comparison.

[@jimclayson]

I hated almost everything about that movie. If I hadn't read the comics for decades, maybe I wouldn't've felt so disappointed at how the characters were adapted to the big screen. They lost most of what made the title and characters great, and mashed bits and pieces of different storylines into an incoherent mess. X-Men deserved much better.

[@j453]

This was before the wokeness plague. They have since retconed Bobby Drake into having allways been gay.

[@legoseanland1760]

There’s a lot to love, I enjoyed it in the theater but it fell apart on later viewing, still better than current content. It’s biggest crime is not simply adapting the source material. It’s already storyboarded for you!

[@AlexWalkerSmith]

I was confused by all the backlash when it came out. Two major criticisms were about inconsistency to comic book lore (which I am far more forgiving of, so long as you're telling a good story) and the underutilization of the Dark Phoenix (which I acknowledge to some degree).

[@GRT1865]

I was never an x-men fan. When I was younger I did read a few of the comics. But the movies were so different that I just watched them as movies with no connection. Similar to the fantastic 4 for me. Thank you Dave for the video.

[@letfreedomring7330]

As a standalone movie, it's good. It was the first X-men movie I saw (not by choice), and I enjoyed it. After I watched the first two, *then* I realized why everyone was so upset about the this one.

[@KanonZombie]

A lot of people diss the cure storyline, but I think it's the Dark Phoenix plot that could be cut, and it would improve the movie. It should have been just the cure, an epic final battle against Magneto, and that's it. And that way, you don't need Cyclops, have him leave because of what happened to Jean, wait for Superman Returns to bomb, and then do Phoenix with everyone in X4.

[@ttabood7462]

"Was X-Men: The Last Stand Really That Bad?" No. At least not when compared to X-Men: Apocalypse.

[@matthewronson5218]

Halle Berry never convinced me that she was Storm, and neither of the Actresses' that portrayed Jean Grey convinced me that they were Jean or the Dark Phoenix. Other than that, the casting was excellent. TLS was what it was, trouble spots but enjoyable enough for a watch or two.

[@Kyle-sr6jm]

The only reason old crap seems better, is that new crap is exceptionally crappy crap.

[@leopoldmaximus145]

X Men The Last Stand and Transformers Revenge of the Fallen are two movies I personally didn't think were that bad, but I still wish they had more time to ploish out how they handled their stories and characters. If I were in charge of The Last Stand, I would split it into two films: the 1st part would focus on the cure plotline and the 2nd on the Phoenix plotine

[@PhilippeC-o1f]

It WAS bad, because they killed Cyclops, Professor X and Phoenix just to put Hugh Jackman and Halle Berry on the forefront and make more entrance. And they ridiculously overpowered Wolverine to be sure that he was the one to save the day. In short, it was a cash grab who should have been named "Storm & Wolverine" instead of "X-Men" and didn't give two craps about the characters or the fans.