KNAVE 2nd Edition 👀 RPG Preview

[@SkittleBombs]

It’s killing it because the creator is deeply into rule books and like to simplify things for the greater good

[@simmonslucas]

I also think it is doing well because it is already written. Anyone who has backed ttrpg books on kickstarter has been burned by backing a book that takes 3 years to deliver. Shadowdark was already written as well.

[@colbyboucher6391]

I like to expand spellcasting in Knave slightly by giving characters a "mental inventory". (This is for Knave 1e so I need to change it for 2e's weird attribute stats.) Your have INT / 2 mental inventory slots. Important knowledge goes here. Mundane ideas like passwords, new languages, the names of important NPCs, etc. can eventually be committed to long-term memory, letting you clear them out of your mental inventory while still remembering them. (Stuff like languages or trade knowledge from character creation is already long-term memory.) Supernatural ideas like the name of a demon, the visage of an eldritch horror, or *spells* cannot be committed to long-term memory, they must sit in your mental inventory for you to remember them. They actually take time to *forget*. You can achieve blissful forgetfulness faster with nights of revelry. Spells in your mental inventory may be cast once per day. This achieves a few things: - Being a "wizard" who memorizes many spells requires a lot of INT as you'd expect. Even then, filling your brain up with spells leaves you addled and unstable. - It doubles as a sanity system, because some things characters don't want to know can be forcefully stuck in there by the GM. - Each party member needs to be selective about what *their character* remembers, which naturally makes note-taking a party-wide responsibility without being obnoxious. - Characters can train with NPCs to learn how to do neat stuff.

[@TonyCrenshawsLatte]

Knave 1st ed is well worth checking out. 7 pages of supremely streamlined awesomeness.

[@HereComeMrCee-Jay]

Been a long since I've stopped by... great video. I know that 5e is your bread & butter, but I'd love to watch more non 5e content from you. Take care and have a great day.

[@WASD20]

Thanks. It’s a goal of mine for sure. Mausritter review coming soon!

[@BobWorldBuilder]

I really appreciate this overview. Very well put together!

[@WASD20]

Thanks, Bob!

[@joshhumphrey3452]

Currently running a Knave 1e/ICRPG/homebrew West Marches campaign and can confirm, Knave has made fantasy RPGs so simple and fun to run again.

[@arciere5511]

Woah! Any chance of an update on how that went? Or if it's still going? Sounds very interesting!

[@joshhumphrey3452]

@@arciere5511 eventually wound down the campaign and had a lot of fun, I eventually re-skinned the system to suit the player's interest of mechs in the apocalypse and began a second campaign which is ongoing. Ultimately the key takeaway is that some players will bounce off of osr styles if all they want is power fantasy. So the players remaining were all about the style and the lethality and how it can be used to tell an emerging story.

[@arciere5511]

@@joshhumphrey3452 I see! Thank you for your response! Hope you have fun with the campaign!

[@christianpage5569]

Glad to see the Knave 2e Kickstarter killing it, well deserved for everything Ben has done for old-school gaming.

[@WASD20]

Absolutely. Well deserved and I’m super happy for him.

[@ChaseRoycroft]

"Snail Knight" is a hilarious spell. Obviously a reference to all that medieval art featuring knights interacting with giant snails.

[@ThisProgram]

I already ordered my Knave 2e, as a fan of Maze Rats and the OG Knave, can't wait! Thanks for the sneak peak!

[@colbyboucher6391]

While I understand feeling like there's not enough monsters, there's an interesting idea in the OSR space: Orcs vs. The Orc. Orcs are faceless boring green dudes. The Orc that's been attacking random passersby on the roads, looking for a good death? The one who The Kobolds know about because he's always got new shinies to steal? At least a little more interesting. Some GMs don't use a monster more than once.

[@simmonslucas]

I really can get behind item slots. It transforms the inventory from credits and debits or from being completely ignored to a strategic/story element. It's like going Final Fantasy inventory to Diablo 2.

[@leandronc]

I used to think OSR games like Knave were not for me. Then I gave it a shot, running a one-shot game (OSR is amazing for one-shots because of the 5 minute character creation) and never looked back. Knave is definitely one of my favorite systems in the genre.

[@LutesDice]

This looks extremely old school. Especially a knight on a snail that answers questions 😂

[@WASD20]

Yeah, is that some kind of old medieval thing? It sounded vaguely familiar, but mostly just struck me as hilarious.

[@SkittleBombs]

@@WASD20 never ending story has a snail rider

[@WASD20]

Ah! That’s it. :)

[@spectatortots]

Medieval monks drew absurd marginalia like that in manuscripts all the time. Knights on snails, rabbits jousting, centaurs blowing trumpets from their butts, etc.

[@JasonFuhrman]

I'm really excited for this game. Something where I and the players can create a world from nothing with the tables. I plan on starting out in a small settlement and shaping who they are and the world as they slowly venture outside its walls.

[@CavernadoLekkis]

Another great system is Cairn. A 2nd edition is under development as well and it is totally free!

[@gamewrit0058]

Thanks for covering this! Excited about the bundled materials being bundled with it - I'd been planning to get them on DriveThru RPG, but now I'm interested picking them up with the print version is Knave 2e.

[@simontemplar3359]

Knave is so rad! I appreciate your checking it out. Knave and Cairn are both flipping cool. And they're super easy to use, especially in the OSR lane. Got a first time player with our group tomorrow and it's got to be Knave!

[@MADGator]

Glad to see you were willing to call out the caveats about potential issues for beginners. I was wondering if this could be a good system to introduce players who are intimidated by the complexity of 5e. Speaking of avoiding intimidation, please keep up the non-Hasbro content to support indie creators. I bet you'll have something great for RPG Independence Month in July!

[@morridin8]

Knave! I backed for a nice nice book. This system is a joy to run for new players as well as veteran rpgers.

[@witchesbruise8792]

Nate, you gotta try an old school game with Gold for XP sometime! I played D&D for 20 years mainly getting XP for killing monsters (we became murderhobos), session (motivation lagged), or milestone (game revolved around guessing what the DM wanted us to do). Don't get me wrong, all of those games were fun, but recently I tried an OSR game with Gold for XP and having the incentive on getting the loot and getting out is awesome. Sometimes fighting is the best way to get the loot, but sometimes its the Worst Way! Take that 2hp wretch for a spin, I bet you'll find some creative uses for your letter of passage or that slab of bacon!

[@WASD20]

Haha! Well said. 👍😄

[@m101ic3]

Bought it! Love the original, can't wait to use the new version in my gameplay!

[@1OO984]

I just starting to get into dnd with a group of friends and your videos are the best I’ve seen your really helpful and walk us through things so thank you

[@blamp666]

Happy to see you going this way.

[@colbyboucher6391]

I *love* Kave 2e's dungeon crawling rules, probably because they're pretty much how I hande things myself. D&D 5e not having any is one of my biggest beefs with the system. There's no real point in having a maze-like dungeon with multiple paths if you're gonna explore it all easily, might as well make it linear at that point. By making *spending time* dangerous in itself, you've immediately got more choices to make. Do we check out what's in that room? Do we keep trying to open this lock we keep failing to pick and risk someone wandering in? Do you move faster but risk running blind into traps? (In 5e I use this as an opportunity to make passive perception a choice, because when moving quickly you rely on it rather than automatically noticing things.)

[@WASD20]

Yeah, I do love those risk/reward scenarios. Tough choices make for exciting games.

[@beansmalone1305]

Looks great. Similar to the DCC level zero concept. Which I love.

[@mythicmountainsrpg]

I'm so glad you are covering this. I just backed the KS and have now subscribed to your channel. More indie games and non brand stuff PPLEEEZ

[@tw7086]

Backed! This is my group’s style.

[@kyleharder3654]

Good overview, the game seems very intuitive.

[@arphod]

You can throw one set of dice, the little Knave book, a notebook and pencil in your backpack, and you are prepared to run a game for anyone. Done. And the system is so barebones that the DM can hang anything on it if more is desired, such as races or feats or deeper divine magic or a better economy for West Marches or whatever. Some people hate that; I love how I can make it exactly as crunchy as I want it, and no more.

[@retrodmray]

Would be nice to hear how weapon damage works, what your "HP"is, and how healing works.... if you would please. Thnx! 👍🤓

[@artistpoet5253]

I did the deluxe physical pledge. I normally don't do Kickstarters as I'm a bit too impatient but this game is so worth it.

[@jimselvy6157]

Sounds good. I just supported on Kickstarter

[@pmode4]

Nice vid! I just got into Cairn for my younger boys and this popped into my feed. I do like the look of this as well. As you said,the tables can be used with other rpgs. This would be great as most of my kids (I have a total of 12- 6 are teenage) play Scruffygrogard's AD&D 3 and we have different parties as not everyone can play regularly. My youngest two teens, my rpg addicts, have three different characters! The tables would help me immensely come up with stuff to play on the fly.

[@abdulrahmanreijerink]

Cairn is a Knave hack.

[@dustincoopermusic]

Thank you for this review! Now I know I want this !

[@joshualichkay7047]

Love that game. Wanna check that out. Looks simple.

[@lancekepley1234]

Are there magic items?

[@jameshicks7254]

I believe one slot holds two rations or two torches.

[@WASD20]

On the Traveling page the rules specifically state "One ration fills an item slot."

[@jcraigwilliams70]

@@WASD20 that seems odd since 500 coins are one slot and a quiver of 20 arrows is one slot. Both of those should be larger and more cumbersome than rations. I'm not arguing against it, just saying that it's a bit strange.

[@WASD20]

Yeah I’d prefer it different, but I suppose that’s a very simple house rule to add. Two or three rations per item slot.

[@Odelpex]

A day’s worth of food and water seems like it would take more room than 500 coins imo.

[@WASD20]

@@Odelpex It's probably partially weight-based too.

[@Skokan82]

Are there other interesting OSR style games worth to try? Sorry I am little bit new into this 😛

[@Rom0.5]

Mausritter seems very simimar to this, and is a gem. Seriously worth the try

[@WASD20]

Agree about Mausritter. Cairn is another popular one. Into the Odd, Basic Fantasy, Labyrinth Lord, and lots more!

[@Skokan82]

@@WASD20 Thx

[@Skokan82]

@@Rom0.5 Thx

[@dustanmcarthur6658]

Swords and Wizardry Labyrinth lord Osric Old school essentials Dark Dungeons For gold and glory Basic fantasy Iron falcon Off the top of my head.... Many of these are reviewed on questing beast. Some are free!

[@JohnSyrain-uz8ow]

I am sooo sold for Knave Now all I need is the price in money for buying it...

[@Galvamel]

This seems really cool, and I will definitely be taking a closer look at the Kickstarter, but everything about Knave, from the difficulty, to XP and GP being the same thing makes me think they took a From Software (Dark Souls) video game and turned it into a tabletop RPG.

[@captaindudeman3613]

I can see Dark Souls being a touchstone reference for those not familiar with old school play. Do a quick google search for the following and this will give you loads of information about tone and feel of Old School play: A Quick Primer for Old School Gaming Principia Apocrypha The Role-playing Game Primer and Old School Playbook. That'll keep ya busy and explain a lot of the design choices and theory crafting.

[@Jibcutter]

XP-GP is how XP worked in 1974 OD&D, 1977 Holmes Basic, 1981 Moldvay Basic (B) and Cook-Marsh Expert (X), 1977 1e AD&D, 1983 BECMI, etc., and most versions after. Also same with increased difficulty. So these systems way predate video games.

[@Galvamel]

@@Jibcutter That's great, still doesn't change the fact that the whole feel of Knave to me seemed more like a FROM Software game than it does Original D&D. I have played OD&D many times, and Knave feels very different from OD&D.

[@Jibcutter]

Fair enough, just that your two examples above on the 'feel' were gp-xp and increased difficulty, signatures of the much older editions of the ampersand game. To me, who has also played many types of older D&D editions (my preferred systems really), it reminds me more of those systems in many reasons for some of the things you state. Never played any darksouls or anything so I can't speak to those.

[@Galvamel]

@@Jibcutter There's a lot of the atmosphere of the From games in this. It's not just the difficulty, there's also the overall sense of hopelessness that I never really saw in OD&D. It was really hard, but there wasn't really a sense of decay and corruption (until you got to things like Greyhawk).

[@cosmiccowboy9358]

Definitely not my cup of tea but seems really well done

[@colbyboucher6391]

2e really wants you to have characters that are *slightly less awful* at some things rather than being good at literally anything, which is sort of interesting, IMO. It leans super hard into the idea that you roll because you already screwed up, not as a first solution to solving problems. Like Tony Crenshaw there said, 1e and 2e are sort of different games, I think the intent of 2e is partially to better reflect the title. You're not a good person, you're not even clever. You're the human equivalent of a loot goblin.

[@johnny4560]

Doesn't one slot hold 3 rations?

[@WASD20]

I do not remember reading that anywhere

[@WASD20]

In the traveling section, I just found that it specifically says one ration fills one item slot.

[@dustanmcarthur6658]

It does in shadowdark. Maybe that's what you're thinking of.

[@shivamutreja6427]

Some mic static in the video. Great vid none the less!

[@WASD20]

Hmm. Really? Other than the intentional glitch?

[@LutesDice]

Sup!

[@FalkFlak]

What is it with making characters in 5 min. in RPGs? Why is everyone in a hurry? In the best case I play the same character in an epic campaign for years. I gladly put some thought into his/her details.

[@Laymansinsight]

I think there are a couple of reasons, at least in this case: 1. The vulnerability of the characters means that it is likely that one might die mid-session. As a result, being able to roll up a replacement on the fly can be quite beneficial. 2. The creation phase of the character itself is not where creativity and engagement ought to be directed; it is in the playing of the game. The rapid process of getting into the gameplay allows you to flesh out your character within the world as you explore it with them. The character's story being invented before playing the game probably wouldn't equate to one having more or less attachment to a character you are able to get to grips with and develop a story with on the road. Not sure how persuasive these arguments are, but they are arguments nonetheless

[@pmode4]

Because character death equals all that time lost rolling up and the doling out skills and such in 5e. In 1 & 2E it didn't take long and the actions your character did and how you portrayed them was the flesh added to the stat bones. My kids and I play a modified version of AD&D (3E by the "other" Chris Perkins-google scruffygrognard as its a mix of old and new D&D) and it takes a good half hour for everything. When fear of character death arrives, the time factor in creation was brought up.

[@FalkFlak]

You're right the vulnerability is a good reason. I GMed Basic Fantasy for a few years and ultimately lost many players because we tend to like fleshing out characters with mechanical details in less deadly RPGs. If you accept that as part of the game character generation time is not an argument.

[@jcraigwilliams70]

The equipment slots seem strange. As I mentioned in response to another comment, one slot is 500 coins, 20 arrows, or a single ration... Rations must be pretty big... So on one hand, I would like to have more slots, but on the other hand, if you have, say, 15 slots, that means you take 15 Wounds before dying, which seems excessive unless one wound can fill multiple slots. If it's one wound per slot, I can imagine after a tough battle, your character sheet might read "Stab wound to the chest. Arrow to the shoulder. Arrow to the thigh. Arrow to the knee. Arrow in left foot. Gash across forehead. Intestines hanging out. Broken arm." And you would still have a minimum of 2 slots left.

[@captaindudeman3613]

Perhaps rations are all the water you would drink in a day and all the food youd eat as well. In that case i could see it taking up a slot. Also gold coins could be the size of dimes or smaller. Who knows, but it could be left up to imagination to fill the gaps.

[@danielefreccero4506]

This game Is Amazing but please translate it into Italian 🙏❤

[@thehubbleton]

Wretch yourself before your dretch yourself.

[@leolithewizzard]

whats wrong buddy

[@tc0930]

I appreciate the transparency but I don't see what I would get out of a review the reviewer was being paid to give. I have watched some of your the content but I immediately stopped watching this one once I had that information.

[@DracoMatt]

I'm sorry, but I'm very skeptical about all those new osr games. I don't really see the real interest of having them all. ShadowDark, Dungeon crawl classics, Old school essential, and now Knave... Why not just take old rpg pdf copies and print them ? I don't understand the utility of having so many "automatic generation" tables. And saying that all these systems allow you to make your own universe makes them even more valueless. Please tell me, why is there so much excitement?

[@joshhumphrey3452]

I can only speak from my experience as an ex-5e player who owns the older AD&D pdfs as well as some newer OSR material. The old books while interesting to read, are incoherent when actually used for playing. These newer games either go for rules accuracy with refined language so as to preserve the experience of older games without the headache, while others seek to change the rules, usually streamlining them to get the same end result or better during play. I mash most of the rules up, taking what I like from each game and discarding what I don't like. As for tables, these can be fun to roll on for inspiration, but I would use them most when I was having a writing block/GM burnout for prep. Hope this helped!

[@captaindudeman3613]

Good luck reading all of AD&D 1e and coming to a table thinking you know all the rules as written. Also good luck trying to find anything as a quick reference at the table when you need it. Same could be said of BECMI D&D as you progress through each book layering on additional gameplay features. This is one reason I like to call the R of OSR - Old School "Reimplementation" The new fresh excitement is being able to explore the history if the game while using more modern features and practices in publishing, layout and design. Also the original game ALWAYS encouraged home brewing the game to fit your table. These hacks or implementations do that and release them into the wild for anyone to use. Its essentially sharing these interpretations and translations to an audience that's like minded in their approach to the game that started it all.

[@deedoublejay]

I understand you're trying to promote a great product, but "the other guy sucks" is a risky approach. I don't even really like D&D, but you're intro turned me off and I have no desire to watch the rest.

[@WASD20]

Fair enough. Thanks for the feedback.

[@leolithewizzard]

you have fallen. before you used to have thousands of likes and now? only 800 likes? you need to beef up