The FAKE Hawkgirl Origin - Justice League’s Biggest Secret

[@dcauwatchtower]

Forgot to credit at 20:15 - Art by Phil Cho! www.deviantart.com/phil-cho

[@batman200]

How many video and sound issues do the hbo max versions of dcau have or have they all been corrected finally? other than static shock missing two episodes and the zeta project not being up on hbo max yet.

[@srstriker6420]

I didn’t expect this to happen even after Dan Riba gave the answer and I have seen Phil-cho before, have you seen Tiny Toon Adventures where they did a Justice league parody short and 18:07 I wonder if there is a connection between him, Ebon and the Shade?

[@AndreNitroX]

Awesome video. Funny enough I was just making a hawk girl video of my own when this popped up

[@srstriker6420]

@@AndreNitroX so are you going to do it then?

[@dcauwatchtower]

@Onyi Ononye W...what?

[@saikanzen1762]

The way they decided to both pay tribute to the actual lore and do something new was so well executed. The DCAU was more than we deserved.

[@lewis3853]

No. The DCAU mindset in the DCEU is EXACTLY what we need.

[@mayanboricua]

"More than we deserved" WRONG. It is exactly what's needed. DC used to wipe the floor with Marvel, way back when.

[@megatamerernie513]

Dcafu was pretty well done as well, in my opinion. Im just waiting for the next interconnected universal story.

[@MisterEvvvSymphoenix]

Indeed ... and I just realised that Hawk Girl is pretty much a Viltrumite ... sort of ...

[@TheAyanamiRei]

DCAU has had a lot of Quality. In fact the Modern DCAU is BETTER than their Live Action. It's why I'm so sad that it's been cut.

[@mementomori5580]

The biggest reveal for me with Hawkgirl was that she was catually wearing a helmet... considering that she never took that of in the beginning, I always thought that that's just how Thanagarians looked like ^^

[@dcauwatchtower]

Next time I watch the show I’m totally imagining it this way

[@spifebreadfriend6791]

Same bro XD

[@littenfire3563]

when I was a kid, I totally thought that was just her face too

[@RustyNips]

I also wondered if it was helmet or head jumping back and forth between the 2 cause you couldn't really tell lol

[@chargestone96]

This video is how i found out it wasnt just a weird hawk mutation lol

[@chrisanderson2204]

The Hawkgirl face reveal was my favorite Hawkgirl moment

[@MisterTwit]

I always thought it was goofy how her eyes changed when she took the mask off but I got over it quickly

[@fictionverse7292]

I wanted to see the full picture of Hawkgirl without the mask and old costume

[@tombondcrispy6585]

The part where she asks batman about her son from the future was good too..

[@ttun100]

It was for GL, John Stewart too.

[@charlesintune]

My favorite moment was "They can't TALK all they like" 😡 from Legends... LOL

[@JayTVIndia]

The moment you get utter respect for Hawkgirl when you realise she fooled even the Batman

[@omnientertainment5852]

@@paulpolpiboon9535 but it did happen, no excuses.

[@shadowofthenorthstar989]

If I remember correctly Batman said he knew she was a spy

[@allstardawn6062]

@@paulpolpiboon9535 Wat someone getting the leg up on batman that's never happened in the history of dc comics ever 🤣, jokes aside it's been established that shayera is just as good as batman when it comes to strategy I mean she used to regularly beat him at chess for crying out load

[@asher7535]

@@paulpolpiboon9535 you must be fun at parties

[@paulocuento9949]

@@paulpolpiboon9535 haha ok boomer.. denying DCAU's legitimacy doesnt prove youre argument.. as far as im concerned, people involved in DCAU have more credibility than some old head, try-hard, wannabe expert, ranting about it :))

[@Zazzy235]

I realized the mom in Wizards of Waverly Place was Hawkgirl when in one episode she was carrying a heavy box and she grunted and I was like oh that sounds like Hawkgirl

[@rickysalgado1623]

I also paid pretty close attention to the grunts too 👀😏🤤

[@pablothecoffeelover2551]

So honestly I was surprised I have no idea she voiced her

[@fabulousmeatpotato5987]

@@rickysalgado1623 my god you are freaky

[@chcltroses]

I had no idea she was Hawkgirl, lol.

[@Rpikachu]

She also voiced She-Hulk in marvel vs capcom 3

[@RedWolf777SG]

Now there's a strong DC female character done right. Actually a lot of DC female characters were done pretty well in this series.

[@JaharNarishma]

I usually put a lot of weight on the characterisation when I (subconciously) judge stories. This series passed the bar. The characters were great even if the story line was questionable because the powers of the heroes weren't on a consistent level.

[@jortharob3406]

@@JaharNarishma This is so true. If their power were more consistent and Superman or Man hunter were just way stronger than everyone else I don't think it would have worked as well.

[@nonenone4461]

So let me get this straight. Betrays multiple peoples, her own, earth. Stabs love interest right in the back, largely to cover up the fact that he is "the other man" she cheated on her husband with. Note....genocidal consequence due to her mating with criminal sociopath (what could go wrong). Genocide you say? Why not change your mind and betray your own people, stab husband in the back. Now subjects her own people to genocide by an unrelenting enemy. Note, does nothing to defend homeworld. Acts surprised later when survivors try to bring her to justice. Cheats on the green lantern, why? Largely because black men are good for the night but not for life, so why not get a white guy. Mmmmm....lovely sentiment here. Time travel reveals she went to black, dumping white (unknown). Implied, father of baby is not what she claims. Yes, YESH...Hawkgirl. Strong. Empowered role model for young girls. How about no.

[@JaharNarishma]

@@nonenone4461 the story line is questionable, but the character is a strong role model if you disregard the "special" story. Generally, all specials are changing stuff from the core. Do not take them too seriously. They are made for extra tension, which stabbing lovers provides.

[@furnfangs7648]

Unfortunately this video had to include a couple single frame derriere shots of HG. Good video, very informative, but editing dept had to give us that slice of cheesecake!

[@Tiberon098]

Man, the “aired 20 years ago” line hit me too hard, f*** am I old.

[@dcauwatchtower]

Yyyyyyyup

[@themediachannel353]

@@dcauwatchtower you are great 👍 and guys would you please let us know what is the correct order for episodes of batman the animated series, I just start watching it and it's confusing, Wikipedia says that Christmas with joker is episode 2 but robin suddenly appears out of nowhere and in the next episode (based on Wikipedia) that scarecrow comes, robin is just gone! The order from imdb is also wrong, would you please tell me what is the correct order? I know you guys are busy but I really can't find the right order and I think I am not the only one. So it would be very nice of you guys to explain it, sorry for the long letter

[@Leadeshipcoach]

DUde! I thought pretty much the same thing "That was 20 years ago?!!!"

[@dcauwatchtower]

@@themediachannel353 The best we have so far is a small chunk seen in our “The DCAU Timeline So Far” video. Past that, production order is always gonna be better than airdate order. There is no “Robin introduction episode” (though we do eventually see his origin in “Robin’s Reckoning”) so there’s not any right or wrong way in terms of that aspect.

[@themediachannel353]

@@dcauwatchtower ok thank you for your answer 🙏 keep up the good work, you guys are awesome 👌

[@Pikanjo]

It was probably the best cover. Shayera seemed shoehorned in as everyone knew Hawkman more so I never questioned anything. She became one of my DC favorites, also unexpected.

[@lewis3853]

She became, and still is for me. Shoot, I prefer her over Hawkman real talk.

[@NostalgicGamerRickOShay]

I met her before I ever even heard of Hawkman, so I saw Hawkman as an ugly usurper.

[@benjohnson9224]

I remember being bummed that Hawkgirl was chosen over Aquaman because I was a purist as a child. However, Hawkgirl was one of the best characters of the DCAU. I came to really like her and was glad they went with her instead of Aquaman by the end of the first season, which made her betrayal even more shocking and hurtful. I, like James, was torn up when she flew away and could not wait for her to come back. DCAU Hawkgirl>>>>DC Comics Hawkgirl

[@srstriker6420]

@shut up yeah you think they should have used in the Justice league over Cyborg?

[@kingkong9892]

@@srstriker6420 they should have used john stewart.

[@srstriker6420]

@@kingkong9892 yes both him and the Hawks

[@bloody4558]

@@kingkong9892 Not me. The only people who like JOhn Stewart so much are the ones who grew up wiht the cartoons without ever reading the comics. The only problem I've always had with the cartoon was the absolute lack of anything about Kyle. Justice League was based in a comic book whose Justice League had Kyle Rayner as one of the founders. John Stewart was only ever chosen for the cartoon, because, upon becoming Ion, Kyle read the minds of all humans and saw how selfish the vast majority were. With him doing his best for the planet, and yet people could only thing on themselves, felt envy towards their neighbors, harbored ill intent. Kyle left the planet for good and asked John to fill his place in the Justice League, because John Stewart was his closest friend and the person he trusted more above all other candidates. At the same time John only returned to the Corps because Kyle helped him overcome his depression, and get over his guilt. And yet Kyle is pretty much inexistent in that series. What we have is a Hal Jordan that makes art for the Daily planet, with Kyle's name but completely lacking in what makes Kyle a Green lantern

[@RedXlV]

I don't know how well they would've been able to pull off the betrayal plotline without Hawkgirl. If it had instead been Aquaman in the League, he would've had to be the traitor but in that case it would be Atlantis vs the surface world. In which case since Aquaman is the *king* of Atlantis, you can't really make him conflicted the way Hawkgirl was since he would've been the one who decided to wage war against humanity in the first place.

[@darwinxavier3516]

This twist hit me particularly hard because Hawkgirl was my favorite member of the JL. She was snarky, confident, passionate, and fun. The way she blew up and called out(and beat the snot out of) the Lantern Corp for abandoning one of their own made me really admire her.

[@rainmaker9715]

Now that I think about it…hawk girl really was everything. Like even her aggressive nature paid off. She could talk to any of the league members and have good dialogue.

[@TheMsLourdes]

Yeah you know once showing up in, 'In Brightest Day' Parts 1 and 2, Its astounding to me that Shayera never asked around to anyone about Thanagar... not once was she ever curious if she could find a way home... and the GL's I mean if not them then the freaing Guardians of the Universe would have easily known. SO at least three opportunities to show her how to get home and not even a single ask from her or anybody in the league.... YEap big red flag entirely missed at the time... until the christmas episode, then it adds up.

[@edwinstovall3334]

Now, let me get this straight: Hawkgirl assumed an Earthian identity, able to do so by ... hiding her natural wings in a KNAPSACK!? WTF??

[@thahirshibu5042]

That musta hurt those first few weeks.

[@TheMsLourdes]

Would have crippled her from flying and been the most uncomfortable thing to wear.. Imagine wearing basically a straight jacket everywhere you go...

[@edwinstovall3334]

Kinda reminds me of the early days of Marvel's X-Men. Warren Worthington III, aka the Avenging Angel, then the Angel, THEN Archangel, wore a restraining harness around his wings while he was maintaining a secret identity. I can't imagine he'd like that either, so that might have figured into his decision to come out.

[@chancegoode173]

Lol I was saying the same thing when I heard that line she assumed an earth Ian identity. That’s kind of hard to do when you have a pair of super long wings on your back

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Well, breast binders are a thing, so this isn't exactly far-fetched in hindsight.

[@comicfan1324]

I didn’t know about this fake origin as a kid I just thought “Oh she’s an alien bird lady? Okay.”

[@srstriker6420]

Or some people would think she was an angel

[@twigs5020]

@@srstriker6420 I mean... she is (technically)

[@srstriker6420]

@@twigs5020 especially when you first see her

[@srstriker6420]

@The Krimson Kommander and that’s they should have brought them in the Snyder cut

[@dr.calibrations7984]

@Will N Rule of Cool my friend. And X-men made it work.

[@oldmanlogan9616]

That scene of Flash hugging Shayera always breaks my heart.

[@ComicBookNostalgia]

"less talking more hitting" -Hawkgirl

[@ghostface9652]

"there's a time for words and there's a time for action" - hawkgirl

[@kingkong9892]

The fact she says both of these lines to green lantern.... Feel like shes trying to tell him something

[@dcauwatchtower]

@@kingkong9892 I think the first was to Lex?

[@nonenone4461]

Sounds like my last date.

[@caffreydavis218]

"Hawkgirl studies Earth's heroes and defenses" Omni-man: "that's cute and all, but unlike you, I brutally murdered our version of the Justice League."

[@JayJayM57]

but unlike him, she succeeded in her invasion.

[@deadmagenta7042]

Ah but he just moved his goalposts.

[@JayJayM57]

@@deadmagenta7042 spoilers He gave up on conquering earth and will try to offer another planet. He couldn't bring himself to kill his son.

[@deadmagenta7042]

@@JayJayM57 I've read ahead already lol.

[@silverdays2909]

@@JayJayM57 so basically he gave up half way unlike Hawkgirl who helped the League after they lost

[@ComicDrake]

Thank you so much for having me! It's always a pleasure working with y'all!

[@skarloey1214]

Hi Drake.

[@badboi6247]

I love crossovers

[@srstriker6420]

@@badboi6247 you do? well then what do you think about the Flash meeting Sonic the hedgehog?

[@adrianvelante8014]

Sup Drake

[@skarloey1214]

@@srstriker6420 I Can't Speak For Bad Boi But That Sounds Awesome To Me.

[@chrisstetsko5020]

I miss these old JL cartoons. They were incredible stories.

[@barblake9230]

So cool that they used Hawkgirl rather than Hawkman for the show. Ever since I've always wanted more Hawkgirl specific comics and she continues to be one of my favorites :D

[@charlesintune]

She was the reason I bought Injustice 1. "taste the mace" is still a line I use way too often in my head. So badass..

[@sumsum3873]

I loved her so much as a kid, still do. She was a fun role model for girls

[@DSan-kl2yc]

In a perfect world we'd have both. Like in young justice, where they are both utterly wasted. But not in that cartoon, I mean some future one. Justice league was good as is

[@bloody4558]

Not cool, Hawkman doesn't deserve the hate. The guy is constantly ignored in everything.

[@Greg12839]

He was in the show

[@KnightVision68]

Dude! The reveal hit me and all 7 of my siblings like a ton of bricks. That was the thing about Justice League I loved. It got 8 kids ranging from age 18 to 4 to sit down and watch it together with no complaints.

[@wanderlustwarrior]

Maria Canals did an amazing performance of the character in general, and really is Hawkgirl/Woman/Shayera/Shiera for me. I wonder if she reflected on the role, or what she thought about the twist at the time, if anything!

[@srstriker6420]

Yeah she deserves more credit

[@zerodiamond4206]

I finished Justice League last night and there's been subtle hints since Episode 1. I think Comfort and Joy was the biggest giveaway when she and John went to "a planet she would go to celebrate on when she was on Thanaguard." You would think she would know how to get back to Thanaguard if she's been there and back multiple times

[@doctorcardio1559]

Awesome obersavion.

[@nosuchthing8]

One. Million. Points.

[@aliciagentile1857]

I am glad I am not the only one who cried when she left. Like you said, you just accepted her as part of the team. My sister was extremely upset because Hawkgirl was her favorite. Goes to show you what good writing can do for a show.

[@rayvenkman2087]

What did she think of her return in Justice League Unlimited?

[@aliciagentile1857]

@@rayvenkman2087 Estatic. I also liked how they showed her face instead of just wearing her helmet all the time.

[@arjunwali9885]

Easily one of the best characters in the show. While she did betray earth, she thought it was to save Thanagar. IMMEDIATELY when she realized that Thanagar planned to destroy the planet, she turned on her homeworld to save humanity.

[@duckie730]

That twist surprised me and I was not expecting it at all. Her story even got more complicated when it was reincarnation in justice league unlimited.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

@LilHeinz94 He's the genuine article I think, they just were pairing her up with John instead

[@michelleann1910]

That was her original origin back in the Golden Age of comics, which had a Justice Society instead of the Justice League that was invented in the Silver Age. In the Silver Age that Golden Age Hawkgirl was from the Earth 2 reality, while the Silver Age Thanagarian Hawkgirl was from the Earth 1 reality.

[@michelleann1910]

The Golden Age Hawkman and Hawkgirl were Carter Hall and Shiera Saunders, American archeologists who were the present reincarnations of the ancient Egyptian Prince Khufu and his consort Chay-Ara. Their souls were linked magically so that they would always be drawn to each other in each of their many lives throughout history. As you know, the Silver Age characters are instead Katar Hol and Shayera Thal, aliens from the planet Thanagar and no reincarnation is involved. And of course both origin stories have been tweaked repeatedly in all the retcons to the DC universe that have been done in the last 40 years, beginning with Crisis on Infinite Earths in 1985. Wikipedia has a good summary of all this in its article about the Golden Age Hawkman. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawkman_(Carter_Hall) The Wiki article on Katar Hol gives a review of all the retcons Hawkman and Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman have gone through since COIE. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawkman_(Katar_Hol)

[@bortmaximus]

My favorite bit of trivia dialog is how Shayera could *regularly* beat Batman at chess.

[@StarGazer0352]

Considering I was barely a year old when Starcrossed aired, no I did not see the twist coming. Didn't learn about the fake origin either until now. Learn something new everyday

[@forastero54321]

This was epic back in the days. Left a hole in my little heart.

[@anonymous36247]

I was a young adult. I'm 39 now. I didn't know about any of this.

[@oldmanlogan9616]

Yes lol I was 1 year old

[@Mary_Studios]

I was two years old so yeah I didn't know about it either.

[@cjarmon76]

Hawkgirl’s arc was a perfect way to close Justice League to me. Like you said in the video, her whole story arc was very much a well done surprise. I definitely didn’t see it coming, but loved it when it played out! The writers did her storyline justice by making her well-liked before having her “betray” the league, and still giving the audience a reason to sympathize with her. It was, in my very humble opinion, the best overall “movie” associated with the Justice League outside of the Cadmus arc.

[@camerongrow6426]

I remember reading Hawkgirl's fake origin in a comic or some other kids' magazine when I was little. It broke my heart when I found out she betrayed the League

[@TheInkTank]

Great video! Was always curious about the story of this reveal but haven't had time to give JL a watch-through yet.

[@dcauwatchtower]

Oooooo boi you spoiled it for yaself! Ya gotta watch it!

[@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369]

You guys here too? Wow

[@michaelrhett4958]

Hi ink tank!!!

[@VunderGuy]

Please watch Justice League! And the rest of the DCAU! You'll appreciate the origins of Ben 10 a lot better since Ben 10 can trace it's lineage all the way back to it and appreciate how much better even okay episodes are than the slightly above average doggerel that is the Ben 10 franchise at its best!

[@steelydyl]

Really hoping for more Shayera in JL Infinity. First time in my life I’ve ever been this excited for the release of a comic book.

[@kingkong9892]

Hope they finally show how her and John got back together

[@aprilpatlan1539]

literally same.

[@Akursedtime]

Its sad that Hawkgirl in current form of movies and cartoon is regulated to background character when she was in Justice League/Unlimited a fan favourite. The fact that she had the most overarching plot and character development showed that the writers put a lot of effort in her as a whole. DC forgot they could have pushed Hawkgirl into the mainstream after the cartoon ended.

[@PhantomObserver]

Batman’s first case with Hawkgirl … sounds like something for Batman The Adventures Continue Series 3, doesn’t it?

[@srstriker6420]

I wish that was true and I guess you have or haven’t seen Tiny Toon Adventures?

[@Deoxys911]

Sounds like something for that rumored Batman: TAS continuation on HBO Max to me! But maybe they can bring the Penguin's new henchpeople from that comic series in for her episode just to make the Databaes smile.

[@DiplomaTIC5]

I watched the entire show a few years ago as an adult and it made John Stewart my favorite hero… so yes I still get misty eyed when I see that scene in Starcrossed

[@bobtherandomguy805]

ComicDrake makes a really good Bruce Timm Rich Fogel and Dan Riba on the other hand do a decent job as Rich Fogel and Dan Riba

[@skarloey1214]

They Should Have Had Rich Play Dan And Dan Play Rich That Would Have Made More Sense.

[@pauocampo0525]

‘ I love how we’re talking about hawkgirl more and more cuz honestly she’s my favorite character and she’s the one who got me hooked in the Justice League franchise

[@Thiccboigohan]

her “haaaaaaaaa” was iconic lol

[@slowpie]

Soooooo iconic. One of the best voice casts ever!

[@someonewhocommentsonyoutub3779]

"Aired 20 years ago" gee thanks for making me feel old, James.

[@dcauwatchtower]

It’s only because I AM old

[@SDPines913]

Hawkgirl/Shayera was always one of my favorites since I was younger. Growing up watching the show, it gutted me when she betrayed the league and it was the first time I was exposed to a story like that and felt those emotions. I got emotional at the end of Starcrossed and as well eventually when she returned in Unlimited. Glad to see someone talk more in depth about this because she doesn’t get enough love or recognition. She is one of the best heroes, most well written character, and integral character in the DCAU.

[@questions2493]

Dude don't I know it I was a kid like 7 when I saw Starcrossed and I jumped when she psyched Jon and was in such disbelief and I cried when she left too it doesn't help that Alfred said his final lines in the show and they were so heartwarming

[@Snowy84557]

I didn't predict she was a spy but as a kid I called her transport beam story ridiculous and claimed to other kids at school that she must be lying. They were like "why would she lie?" and the consensus was 'bad story writing' until we saw the twist and learnt why she had been lying.

[@awesomeatronik]

Huh I never considered Hawkgirl as a sidekick, her and Hawkman were always together as a team.

[@Shadow-kd2ot]

thats also how i saw it their stories were always focused on their love for each other

[@DungNguyen-qy3yz]

I love it when decades later people still talk about the JL serie. Talk about greatness!

[@The_Bird_Bird_Harder]

Indeed! I was born 3 years after it first aired and it still defined my childhood!

[@macmay3042]

Rainbow Robbers: Hardened criminals who exclusively steal pots of gold from leprechauns.

[@kwayneboy1524]

Please tell this is true.

[@kronemerj]

Given the dc universe it probably could be....

[@dr.calibrations7984]

Does that REALLY make them villians though?

[@omnientertainment5852]

I thought they were talking about a certain group...lol i kid i kid.

[@KairuHakubi]

@@omnientertainment5852 i couldn't help but think 'fanny bandits'

[@Enigamis]

When I was a kid I missed the star crossed episode and jumped into unlimited and was very confused as to where hawk girl went. When I recently rewatched it all I was pretty suprised on the twist, so even after 2 decades it was still a good twist.

[@ashleytuchin7693]

I vaguely remember reading about the fake origin years ago, but I didn't realise the conspiracy ran so deep. Thanks for breaking it all down for us!

[@ricardomiles2957]

I didn't even knew that she was comic book character back then thought she was created for the show. Which completely undermined every encounter I have with the character in any other media because she's so incredibly cool in the cartoon and has such development that I'm yet to see a version of her that gets even close

[@pauldesigncomics2625]

She was also in Superfriends series back in the 80s

[@Unchainedful]

The reason why you don’t see that version of Hawk Girl is because it’s against her lore and behavior. I love Justice League’s Hawkgirl, but Hawkgirl is destined without her questioning or going against it, to be in love and with Hawkman. The closest they got real Hawkgirl in personality was DC Legends of Tomorrow, where she fell in love with Atom, but Hawkman returned and her destined emotions towards Hawkman overwhelmed her love towards Atom and had to leave the group and leave Atom so she can continue her destiny.

[@douglashawk]

Check out Hawkman vol 2 issue 6. It's one of my favorite comic covers. Hawkwoman takes on Lionmane by herself.

[@jazzmyn5804]

20:19 My biggest question was how did she hide her wings if she had a civilian identity. Thank you for answering that important question

[@srstriker6420]

Yeah I wish we could have seen that before Starcrossed but we don’t or even meeting Batman before the Justice league

[@monicadoe9760]

I read thanagarians have pills to transfigurate their bodies. I guess that's the solution.

[@Mr_Yod]

@@monicadoe9760 It depends on the continuity, I think: I often saw them removing their wings in comics, so in those cases they are only some sort of bionic "implant" (that's not implanted).

[@dariakey5318]

@@Mr_Yod i guess Shayera'e wings were pretty much real in the cartoon, unlike Katar's. At least, she felt pain when got hit with the spike in last episodes of unlimited. And she had her wings "on" even for a date. Anyway, I love to think that hee wings are natural 😆

[@Mr_Yod]

@@dariakey5318 Yes: in the cartoon they are real.

[@ingvarsuigin609]

Agents of Shield didn't tell the actors that one of them is a traitor, so until that moment happened, everyone, including the traitor, played a spy hidden perfectly - by not knowing they're a spy.

[@KenS1267]

The DCAU is how to do "I don't even know what to call it" right. They created numerous characters that people now consider fixtures of DC comics, Harley Quinn we're looking at you, but the Hawkgirl arc was amazing. They took their viewers seriously enough to have such a story in the series at all. I was an adult when B:TAS and the rest started so the more complicated and nuanced plots were what kept me with it for the decade or so the various shows were on air.

[@Merennulli]

It honestly struck me as a spur of the moment "Let's make this character betray everyone!" story idea, not something planned. We had seen Superman one day happen to be brainwashed by Darkseid, and plenty of other stories had these sorts of twists thrown in with no foreshadowing at all, so I never expected the writers knew prior to drafting the episode itself. I'm impressed that they went so far into making her a beloved, 3-dimensional and integral character while knowing the whole time they were going to do this. The twist itself was cliche, but they humanized it so well afterward with her withdrawal afterwards and slow reintegration rather than Superman's "nothing will ever be the same...for about 3 random episodes but everything will be the same otherwise" after his mind control. (Don't get me wrong, I liked when Superman dealt with it, but JLU dealing with Hawkgirl's betrayal was miles better.)

[@prometheusmodelow8322]

Yeah with Superman it felt like it didin't matter but i think it's because the show was meant to have more seasons showing what happened after Legacy, but alas, that never happened and we skipped to after he regained the public's trust in JL.

[@Merennulli]

@@prometheusmodelow8322 I really like where they went with Cadmus in JLU. They made the Justice Lords the central argument for it instead, but in some respects it did give us the consequences we were missing from Darkseid's mind control and did explicitly reference that as the origin of the project (even if that was just a throwaway line). And they did a good job of showing Cadmus wasn't entirely wrong with the JLU. They gave us a version of Green Arrow that gave voice to why blind anti-authoritarianism isn't good but also that "trust us, we're the good guys" isn't a safe thing to accept when immense power is involved. It's a nuance we rarely get to see in media.

[@lilhypnotique]

@@Merennulli When one of your team mates has a whole contingency plan for “we the good guys, trust us” side, you would think there would be some discussion in that.

[@Merennulli]

@@lilhypnotique Which did you mean? Batman's leaked contingency plan or Cadmus's plan?

[@lilhypnotique]

@@Merennulli Batman leaked contingency plan. When you have a whole kryptonite bullet ready to shoot into Supe’s heart, I think a conversation needs to be had.

[@chcltroses]

I thought this was an amazing reveal. I loved her because she was basically the opposite of Wonder Woman. I was kinda glad there was another woman in Justice league, I just wonder why they never thought to add her to the live movies

[@aaronfrey4418]

Hawkgirl from the DCAU is the best. Great story, great twist, and great voice acting. That farewell scene makes me cry every time. And I still remember being so excited when she removed her helmet for the first time and when she and John kissed.

[@JaretOnYoutube]

So that’s who voiced Hawk-Girl. I knew her voice was familiar.

[@aurahoneydew9607]

Meanwhile in a parallel universe the DCAU instead went the tower of babel route.

[@srstriker6420]

Yeah imagine if Batman did do it, I guess that he and Hawkgirl both get kicked out of the league

[@the1withthepen]

If my math is accurate, Hawkgirl and Batman's initial meeting would take place around the "Lost Years" era of DCAU Batman lore. Would have been / might be an interesting thing to explore in the "Adventures Continue" comic if the writers of "Season Two" want to take another swing at that mostly unexplored point in time.

[@dcauwatchtower]

Yep! 1997, DCAU time.

[@dcauwatchtower]

Well, that’s when she got to Earth, anyway.

[@jonwooldridge3766]

I didn't see that coming. Hawkgirl/woman has always been a favorite of mine, so naturally when this video came across my feed I locked on to it. Thanks for the info.

[@randomanimations2591]

Love how the snake person in the fake backstory also has Lex’s face and head shape cause he’s also a snake gahlee when you let artists have fun they can do some stuff that’ll tickle the brain just right

[@KairuHakubi]

He looked Coluan to me.. But he's a snake, so.. Colubrian? does... like colubrid snakes... g-get it..

[@lycanthis9963]

I feel Hawkgirl is one of the most underrated characters in DC.

[@monicadoe9760]

I know it! She was so ahead of her time 😍

[@srstriker6420]

Absolutely because she could have been more useful in the Snyder cut

[@allstardawn6062]

Her along with Vixen Huntress and Black Canary

[@sumsum3873]

She IS and it stings

[@srstriker6420]

@@sumsum3873 don’t you mean it’s stinks?

[@NoahEurich]

You’re production and editing skills just keep getting better and I am all for it.

[@andrewcozzini8259]

Wow, what a really deep dive into THE twist of JL! I have to say, remembering how you guys used to make these sorts of videos, ot really shows how the channel's grown and come along. It's so nice to hear you be able to "splice" (See what I did there?, 🤭) in bits of audio from all the creators/cast you've interviewed when you make a given assertion. It makes your videos come off as all that more official and less guesstimate-y. You are truly becoming THE Watchtower Database, like for real! Always exciting to see you guys do well; keep it up!

[@tawesssoabbox]

Yeah this was a great twist.But then again the JL and JLU shows did get a lot of stuff right. That Superman bit about a world made of cardboard still gives me chills.

[@CorpusSans]

As kids, my younger brother was such a big fan of Hawkgirl. I can still remember his reactions when the betrayal was played out.

[@dusanstojsin4938]

I heard something about this on J's Reviews' review of Starcrossed, but it's nice to know the details of this.

[@brunofernandes3298]

Hawkgirl and Martian Manhunter are my favourite heroes EVER. Love them

[@joykwansiri1767]

First time watching your video channel, this really bring back my childhood, that time I was 12 just like you too, I'm really happy that someone still love this show, now I'm grown up and have a job, and now I realise that this wasn’t a kids show. It was an adult show in a kids format.

[@dcauwatchtower]

Welcome! We’ve got hundreds of other videos to help take you back too!

[@AlejandroMorales-zj9sl]

Hawkgirl is so underused these days, I miss her so much!! She is one of the most powerful, well-written and intriguing characters in DCAU. She was placed back on her 'side kick' shelf in Young Justice with no speaking lines.

[@blackpinkonly3242]

for real

[@BovineDesigns]

I love how much research you guys do on these, when it comes to editing i always get hung up on trying to find the right visual aid.

[@lewis3853]

1:20 (…right visual aid)

[@BovineDesigns]

@@lewis3853 exactly!

[@iam_kaution]

When I was a kid that actually blew me away I had to be home to see that movie. Such an amazing time to be alive man such an amazing twist I'll definitely be watching it over again sometime soon.

[@kwayneboy1524]

I think it would've been cool if Batman teamed up with Hawkgirl to stop Gentlemen Ghost who was robbing Gotham's wealthiest.

[@srstriker6420]

Yeah

[@srstriker6420]

I guess you haven’t seen Tiny Toon Adventures where they did do a parody on DC comics?

[@kwayneboy1524]

@@srstriker6420 what do you mean?

[@srstriker6420]

@@kwayneboy1524 oh you haven’t seen Tiny Toon Adventures?

[@lewis3853]

Tell me having Scarlett Johansson play a live action version of THIS Hawkgirl wasn’t the biggest missed opportunity. She legit looks like she was animated from how she looks as Black Widow.

[@ndo533]

She almost even sounds like her

[@chcltroses]

hmm. I could see it. I always thought Black Widow was a blonde, maybe I have her confused with black Canary

[@jeppeaksrensen8316]

I did a bit of googling after watching this vid and have found that Hawkgirl hs actually, pretty consistently, been portrayed by latinas. I found this funny because i never saw her as that but Hey i saw her as an alien so whatever lol.

[@lewis3853]

@@jeppeaksrensen8316 NOO! It doesn’t look the same. ScarJo is her.

[@JuggoJuggo]

Fooling Batman is one thing, but fooling Martian Manhunter and the real Dr Fate is astounding.

[@yaujj65]

For Martian Manhunter, Thanagarian are more resistant to mind reading which is why he could not read. For Dr Fate, they didn’t interact too much and he didn’t have any suspicion. Plus the Justice League was still a 7 men members

[@KSCGGuy14]

Hawkgirls arc in the DCAU was fantastic. I never watched Starcrossed when it came out in 2004 but I'm sure many of you reading this comment of mine probably didn’t see her betrayal coming.

[@glenwaldrop8166]

I started my youngest on Teen Titans (the real one, not the atrocity that came later) and Justice League when she was a little over a year old. She was probably 2 and a half by the time we got to Starcrossed. She was pretty upset that Shayera had betrayed everyone. I did *not* expect that out of a not-quite-three-year-old. Justice League, Teen Titans and Samurai Jack are in a pretty steady rotation. Thankfully she prefers those shows to silly kid shows on most days.

[@nunyabiznes33]

It seems it's innately human to be upset at betrayals.

[@koelee]

"What do you know about Thanagar" is like a way more subtle "Earth isn't yours to conquer"

[@batsignal3469]

Hawkgirl is one of the best iteration of the character!

[@s-link9400]

When i first saw the episode Starcrossed i was shocked about Hawkgirl being a spy, but it does line up with all of the hints given in season 2. Also her being transported to earth always reminded me a bit of Martian Manhunters origin story.

[@cyrillkiyschenko8697]

Yeah. Hawkgirl is cool. One of the most cooliest girls in DC.

[@srstriker6420]

I agree

[@josephstocks7495]

I respect the hell out of your hustle brother. You do the DC fandome a great service with the channel.

[@savvassavvides6681]

HawkGirl did what Omni-man did before it was cool..

[@allanthomaz2260]

Actually, Invincible did It first, Invincible Issue 7 is from December 2003(This is this the Issue when OmniMan betrays the Guardians), Starcrossed is from May 2004

[@Shadow-kd2ot]

@@allanthomaz2260 starcrossed is based on the invasion comic from the 80s so checkmate

[@allanthomaz2260]

@@Shadow-kd2ot Huh... Im not sure If you didn't read the Invasion comics or you have no Idea what are we talking about, maybe both.

[@michaelnoga3737]

The saddest moment in the DCAU is any time someone doesn’t feed the algorithm beast...

[@zaviermichael6281]

1:20 haven’t even gotten 2 minutes in and this is my favorite joke

[@oliindacut]

Thought i was the only one who caught that😭

[@JariahxSynn]

Oh my god, Hawkgirl x GL romance destroyed my soul, when I was 12. Even today, being 30, thinking about it ruins me. Damn you DCAU having good writing and solid characters and one of the best romances EVER! I need to cry...

[@miketoast6329]

Had no clue and it blew my little mind. Revisiting the series now, it still is a shocker when you finish season 2

[@antwan1357]

The main consistency is the fact she comes from a race of warriors and warriors are known for viewing everyone else as potential conquests and part of that is being able to size everyone and everything up for conquest. She is doing exactly what a xenophobic warrior race would do. Only now it is more realistic. Surprisingly wonder woman , doesn't have this background.

[@RLSmith-jt8qj]

Which is why she's wonder woman

[@GoddamnGemini]

I had no clue about her being a spy, and wasn't exactly aware of her fake origin. I guess I didn't pay attention. Also, my personal DCAU Tearjerker is the beginning of Batman Beyond, Bruce's last fight as Batman. Close second ex-aequo are from Mask of the Phantasm: "I didn't count on being happy" and Bruce finding the medallion in the Batcave.

[@poego6045]

I'd say they had one misstep with this twist. During the episode where they all have nightmares of their greatest fears, they should have gone with a sort of esoteric, non specific dream for Hawkgirl that highlights her fear of being found out, or of her eventual betrayal (like maybe everyone shuns her or something, or she's targetted by her friends). I feel like it would have been a great little subtle clue without revealing too much (I mean, it's a legitimate fear, to be shunned by your friends and be alone or something along those lines). As it stands, every character gets a meaningful nightmare wherein they experience character growth, whereas Hawkgirl....gets stuck in a box and it sets off her actual claustrophobia. It just feels like they went "yeah, that'll work, whatever" for that bit.

[@dcauwatchtower]

Not a bad idea! I always kind of took the claustrophobia to BE representative of feeling trapped, like she might feel about her situation between the League and Thanagar at the time, while developing feelings for Green Lantern. At least that episode also gave us foreshadowing for J’onn’s inability to read her mind.

[@Nighthawk5015]

I did not see the secret spy angle coming. I was devastated when she turned out to be a traitor because she was/is my favorite Justice Leaguer. I love going back and watching the show and now I can see the clues are there. I need more Hawkgirl content. This is my absolute favorite version of the character.

[@skullninjaraptor]

This is Awesome! Shayera is my wife's favorite. she has a large model of her hanging above her desk. :)

[@Lucasbpc]

I think Bruce Timm & Co. missed the golden opportunity of having her fake origin story be that she was bitten by a radioactive hawk

[@moracomole8090]

Don't forget that The Flash had a date with both Hawkgirl and Wonder Women at the same time. That's cuz he's a stud.

[@topster888]

I knew ALL ALONG that such a beloved character would betray the Justice League to aliens. I was in every relevant forum shouting my prediction from the rooftops. The only flaw with my theory was that I thought the traitor was Alfred.

[@PShawtx]

Being able to fool Batman is really saying something. It puts his worlds greatest detective title in question. LOL !

[@Ravum]

Thank you for the video. Her arc on this show will probably always be her crowning achievement in stories. Thank you to Brice Timm and everyone who made these masterpieces.

[@shaden6157]

Ok I'm just glad we got some explanation on how she hid her wings

[@mycomnithegreat434]

I did not know, I was today years old bc I never finished the series. Hindsight is 20/20 though. She was a newer character, who was mysterious, whose mind not even *J'onn* could read, her suspicious reaction to Dr. Fate runes, had an eyebrow raising amount of access to technology from a world she was supposedly cut off from, all of it added up. Even if someone did suspect her, I like to think it was set up so well, the twist probably still would have shocked them! It felt meaningful, and I'm definitely going to point at this episode while glaring the less-well-done "liar/traitor reveal" episodes saying "THIS is how you do it" now, lol

[@Deception975]

This made me chuckle, lol. *me reading something on my phone* *Comic Drake starts talking* Me: "Wait, a minute. That's Comic Drake, not Bruce Timm"

[@TheLifeOnHigh]

As someone who absolutely loved Justice League, this video essay was very much a joy to watch. I love Hawkgirl episodes. But if Martian Man Hunter couldn’t read her mind I wonder what effect Diana’s Golden Lasso would’ve had on Hawkgirl? Good stuff to ponder 😃

[@matthewhecht9257]

I am proud of myself for recognizing all those JSA comic excerpts.

[@aniruddhbhatkal1834]

I like where he says "audience is so sophisticated." A really good take, assuming that even the target audience is smart and can be trusted to think and form opinions by themselves