Water Wheels Are BETTER Than Steam Engines (Kind Of) - Create Mod SU generator comparison guide

[@dejojotheawsome]

Go to my sponsor snhu.edu/dejo and to see what the current average annual salary for a game programmer is and learn how you can get started

[@TrixterTheFemboy]

I swear you get some of the weirdest sponsors for a minecraft youtuber, weren't you sponsored by a law firm once or twice too?

[@dejojotheawsome]

@@TrixterTheFemboynope lol! But SNHU is a returning friend of the channel

[@zackhack_gamer2487]

I have never played create and I have tried building steam engines, it wasn't as accesible as water wheels and the amount of different stuff you have to get like lava etc will be problematic if you're playing skyblock.

[@Crystal_blade18]

Lol noob lag np just add lava farm and add mod whit create straws then you can pump it in

[@TiernanOleary]

Create Diesel Generators has entered the chat

[@user-qt2we6mb6k]

I think you need to gather the supplies to make each one again but do it 5000 times each to account for RNG in world generation, this should only take several years

[@fordalels]

maybe run baritone? have it automatically collect resources and do it, for best-case scenario

[@ANullAssault]

​@@fordalels No it has to be manual and consecutive

[@emeryduhgamer]

@@fordalels No because as the person above me said with baritone you either need to watch or record the entire process which would either A. Be tiring or B. Take up valuable storage space and still be tiring so manual to account for keeping track and world generation so using baritone would not really be viable either

[@mooncandlelight3968]

​@@emeryduhgamer It has to be manual and consecutive. Period.

[@thepoglin8479]

​@@emeryduhgamerhe must do it manualy to ensure everything ie accounted for

[@dudedude31415]

A problem with that perspective is: - you play the first few hours with water wheels and then you have every resource to build a steam engine everywhere you need it. - a windmill is not for efficiency but for looks. Also you can pluck it directly onto a crop/ wood farm to make it move without lost space. - at later stages you will have infinite lava in the offer world and in addition you have to calculate lag impact per SU, not per space. This bucket refiller has nearly no impact per SU. You need one of them (and not at 256 rpm) for a large steam engine (100k+ SU). Calculate the lag for 200+ large water wheels. In addition to that, whatever you do with the 100k SU will likely generate MUCH more lag than this steam engine setup, so that doesn't really matter that much. These have just different use cases. It's like saying, "which car is better, a semi truck, a sports car or a small car like a smart/ mini etc.?" - as it is most often, it depends. Nothing against the video though, just my rant plus engagement for the algorithm.

[@Chrizzx3]

I agree fully with you, this is exactly what my thoughts are!

[@SoratiosIV]

I mean if filling them is the problem sure in base you'll have to do the hand but in many mod packs you can just pluck a pipe into them

[@Venenus_MC]

he missed the furnace engine that was deleted on 5.0

[@gautamu.9708]

@@Venenus_MC yea... that thing was real cool though 😅

[@breadloafbrad]

Mine is powered by a kelp farm, and I have four full size (but not max level bc blaze cakes) engines running. The kelp farm is definitely a smidge laggy, but I was also very green when I built it so realistically once I go back and simplify it it should have much less impact on my game. I also realized that a lot of my belts could be easily replaced with item vaults, and I’m sure I can find more lag (and space) efficient ways to dry and craft the kelp. But basically what I’m getting at is that the amount of raw power I get from such a relatively small space is insane, plus I love the industrial power plant look of it

[@ixioxp119]

the unit used is actually micro seconds per tick, so i assume "to calculate everything with this block you need x micro seconds per tick" normally minecraft wants to run at 20 ticks per second, this means that as long as your total "lag" isn't above 50 000μs/t you shouldn't experience any lag, of course this avoids how much it takes for minecraft to do its normal stuff

[@ShiroCh_ID]

but multiplayers is miltiply the lag

[@karoll2914]

Do you maybe happend to know what mod adds this?

[@J0hnB09]

@@karoll2914are you asking about the water wheels and steam engine or something else?

[@karoll2914]

@@J0hnB09 I'm asking what adds the lag meter

[@imacat643]

​@@ShiroCh_IDuhhh i can see the thought process but no

[@SergioPSC]

Shoutout to youtubers who make sponsors a different chapter so you can skip them. You guys rock

[@vanummli]

I haven't personally done it but the windmill can be made part of the decor. Make the wool colored and look like a globe or other statue then you can "hide" it as part of a decorative park/feature. That said, totally agree with you!

[@ithalathegayguy]

And now I know my plan for power when I finally upgrade my computer to be able to handle Create, thank you random stranger on the internet.

[@danatronics9039]

I built a paddle steamer base where the "waterwheels" were actually windmills made of red wool :D

[@ultrakid8497]

​@@danatronics9039did you know if you put a plank in your offhand and right click on a water wheel you can change its color

[@WanderingWolfe]

Same for the water wheels. They make a nice moving component in builds.

[@sonicSnap]

the only reason i've ever used windmills over water wheels is to build giant windmill structures as decoration. never worth it!

[@yeetmcmeat]

If you struggle with getting blaze burners, you can actually just right click a blaze spawner with the empty burner and get one so you can do it in peaceful. It doesn't use the spawner up either.

[@koiledPythonRain]

the problem isnt in getting blazes, you'll find them from a spawner anyways. the issue is finding a FORTRESS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[@yeetmcmeat]

@@koiledPythonRain if you have a map mod like journeymap the fortresses are usually pretty easy to find. there's also the structure compass if you aren't against a little cheaty feel. But I agree, fortresses are annoying if all you have installed is create.

[@CubeInspector]

​@@koiledPythonRain chunkbase is a free website that will show you where everything is

[@Bookslayer10]

@@koiledPythonRain You need to find a fortress anyway for brass items

[@koiledPythonRain]

@@Bookslayer10 yes, that too

[@binathiessen4920]

I always use infinite lava sources to power my boilers, and use them for all my stress needs. I got tired of charcoal farms dying when they were out of random tick range. And I had problems with water wheels causing a lot of client side lag because of all the moving geometry. I use quarries to dig giant shafts down to bedrock and fill the gaps in the walls with cobble, then I use hose pulleys to fill the pit with lava pumped from my previous infinite lava source. Now I have power wherever I need it.

[@ShiroCh_ID]

wait, does infinite lava source with hose also works in overworld?

[@koolkrafter5]

@@ShiroCh_ID It works with any fluid if there are enough connected.

[@bruhmomento3007]

​@@ShiroCh_IDcreate considers a pool of 10.000 blocks of any liquid an infinite source, it works in all dimensions

[@spazmcat3853]

@@bruhmomento3007 Me with a pool of only 9999 lavablocks, not figuring out why its not working: 🤔🤔🤔😤😤😤

[@brendanhatch983]

@@spazmcat3853 pretty sure its 10.0 not 10,000 their comment has a decimal not a comma not sure if you missed that or if i missed something

[@teasdaye]

Arcane Engineering configuring windmills to work with a single sail was honestly pretty useful for small fan setups. They only need minimal rotation to cook/wash stuff anyway, so an independent 2-block solution (especially in situations where you definitely wouldn't want flowing water around) came in handy many times.

[@TobiasHarms]

Good tip Running arcane right now and haven't really felt like getting into windmills. But getting power to a fan with only two blocks is really good.

[@dahelmang]

Isn't that what a fan on top of a magma block is for? A bit more expensive though...

[@teasdaye]

@@dahelmang That was taken out ages ago

[@dahelmang]

@@teasdaye ah ok. It helps if you prefer 1.16 anyway.

[@baptisteboyer2699]

this modpack have starbucle wheel.........

[@SuperMegaCoffeeGuru]

I have always loved Water Wheels and Windmills, though windmills are just as much for aesthetics. That said, being able to have wheels buried in an underground pit and running a line to what I need powered is always a good thing.

[@fordalels]

If only windmills were good.... Personally, I would absolutely love if they had actual wind mechanics - for instance, upwards facing windmills will get more stress units if above heat sources. Face a fan towards a windmill and it will make the windmill spin faster - without increasing the SU. This would also give a use for fans with high RPM, since currently the only use is range.. which doesn't matter if you get advanced enough tech.

[@dejojotheawsome]

oooh that would be really really cool!

[@TomIsQuestionable]

This is kinda like old create mod versions, where encased fans could be placed facing a campfire or magma block and powered by redstone to output stress units out the back.

[@kenbaird7454]

I personally LOVE windmills for spinning farms, because you have large gaps in the spinner anyway, and if you fill them with sails now it runs itself and does not need any power

[@fordalels]

@@kenbaird7454 it’s true, but at the same time it sacrifices speed - unless you have a huge farm or make a wall of sail/wool blocks… usually (esp earlygame) its much easier to make a farm which uses a mechanical bearing and waterwheel - and have it run at a decent speed too! specifically best for trees farms

[@kenbaird7454]

@@fordalelsI personally ususally make a MASSIVE rotary farm with multiple rings, so there will be a tree ring, a normal crops ring, maybe even a melon and pumpkin ring, etc. And this powers all that for no SU cost, and even outputs a decent amount of SU for belts

[@ICountFrom0]

You can drop the "min" even lower on the steam (Unless the newest version changed it), you can put it above a campfire, or lava. You can completely skip the blaze at stage 1.

[@Roan_Harris]

Yeah, passive steam is probably faster to obtain, as it is just 4x copper and gold and skip the nether.

[@Rapandreas]

6:35 That windmill design could absolutely be compacted down to half the size or even less by just filling out the 3x3. And since the blocks become entities once the windmill is spinning, you can place new blocks in there, meaning it doesn't take up any space.

[@lord_scrubington]

ikr windmill are also infinitely scalable since you can just place another windmill bearing. If hes saying that they aren't scalable because you need multiple windmills beyond 8192su then surely waterwheels are terrible for scalability cus to get more than 512 you need more waterwheels.

[@XiaoYueMao]

@@lord_scrubington the waterwheels can also be compacted as he showed, also compatcting windmills into each other isnt safe because if for whatever reason the bearings turn off the windmills will all destroy each other as create will destroy blocks inside of blocks when stopped, thus using that method for saving space isnt really a valid way to score it especially since rejoining a world often causes the machines to stop for a second

[@lord_scrubington]

@@XiaoYueMao even when compacted I don't think they are smaller than a space efficient windmill

[@mr.battlecats5512]

@@lord_scrubington from what i understand about the waterwheel,s a 3x8x3 area of waterwheels make 16k su, with 0 blocks wasted

[@WanderingWolfe]

​@@mr.battlecats5512 You are absolutely correct. You could even compact it more. to columns of 3 water wheels with a single source block between the top two would fit 6 powered wheels in a 3x3.

[@Edit-nk6nb]

0:22 - A transtition to the same scene?

[@engineoil]

@@Edit-nk6nb but now he's standing and not crouching! So ingenious!! 😝

[@chrissant6277]

@engineoil Bro you are lost if you genuinely believe he ONLY did that transition for no reason lmfao.

[@chrissant6277]

He was probably doing something in between... yknow.. the reason for cuts and transitions.

[@engineoil]

@@chrissant6277 Oh bestie... people joke on the internet, you know?

[@minmaxmedia]

I agree that windmills are "meh" most of the time, with two exceptions... when I am making spinning tree, kelp, or crop farms OR need a small bit of power for something in the nether (where you can't have water), I do like windmills. As for Tree/Crop/Kelp farms, the nice thing about using a windmill is that, if you use a windmill bearing instead of a mechanical bearing, the arm that you attach all your mechanical saws, harvesters, storage blocks, and portable interfaces to can simply be made of wool and then the arm itself IS the sail. Additionally, the farm then generates the items AND a bit of power to run things like belts, sorting-system, or simple resource processing (such as a wheat farm that auto-processes the wheat into bread or sweet rolls right away). Essentially making a windmill option for a farm be the most space efficient since it literally takes up ZERO additional blocks beyond what the contraption would normally require. As for building in the nether, you could power the water wheels with lava instead of water, but that can be dangerous if you have firetick enabled and are building out of any flammable materials or are playing in hardcore where you are probably trying to mitigate risk of getting dead.

[@vcool122]

Well, wouldn't you know it, we can use water wheels in the nether. Power them with lava instead XD there is an hidden achievement for that. Edit: I must admit that I found this totally by accident.

[@alexorio098]

@@vcool122 LOL, me too bro, i was like, interesting, would it burn down the wheel if i place lava instead of water and BOOM, all worked out absolutely fine! Was building lava drain system, just to speed up lava gathering process (system with couldrons was waay slower then i needed to)

[@undertalerandomvideos5222]

If you're building out of flammable materials in the nether, water wheels aren't the problem...

[@oriondezagrats4228]

I do wish we'd at least have to make netherwood waterwheels for lava.

[@DONT-KNOW-MYSELF]

​@@oriondezagrats4228 1.Water wheels already work with lava 2.If it doesn't fit your aesthetic Right-click while holding a piece of wood in your main hand and the water wheel will become that wood type

[@nickbutnoappropriatelastna4257]

Bro got sponsored by a collage. These replies are rather strange, perhaps they should study in a collage.

[@Dv0m]

ege

[@thenumberseven959]

Collage - An artistic composition of materials and objects pasted over a surface, often with unifying lines and color. College - An institution of higher learning that grants the bachelor's degree in liberal arts or science or both.

[@Mcjangles_]

Bro I think this is a call to action for you to further your education.

[@Chips569]

University*

[@thecaveberry8444]

College*

[@PsiQss]

Well, considering many people play with a modpack, I think a mention would be in place that you do not need to power the steam engines with the robotic arm. Unless you're playing the "vanilla" Create. There are addons in place that allow you to power the blaze burners with piped in liquid fuel, which I believe has much less impact on tps. I know this video aims to compare the power sources in a context of the Create mod, just thought this would be worth mentioning given how people are likely playing modpacks rather than a single mod :)

[@ReggieMarshale]

With the Create: Craft & Additions addon (iirc), you can make blaze fuel by pressing excess seeds from automated farms

[@silksongoutyet]

I love the blaze burner straws

[@asdfr5669]

I like how no1 is talking abt bro getting sponsored by a collage

[@kilbymorgan8626]

I like Windmills the most. You can make large moving art pieces that power your stuff without anything extra. You set it up and its done. Only limitation I have found is lag if you put too many too close together.

[@elnico5623]

you can power steam engines with campfires, you can pump water to a single one with a waterwheel and use that one engine to pump other 16 (or 32 i forgor) engines that also use campfires, and you got a ton of free SU

[@gammaboy4568]

unfueled blaze burners also count as level 1 heat (same as a campfire) meaning that he did not even have to fuel that one to get the optimal results.

[@XiaoYueMao]

@@gammaboy4568 do lava or magma blocks count as heat and if so are they greater than campfires? (i would assume lava is hotter than a campfire lol)

[@gammaboy4568]

@@XiaoYueMao actually never tested that, and my guess is possibly no. It also would not likely contribute more heat, as mechanically the point is that blaze burners are a requirement for higher heat levels. If lava does happen to contribute more heat, feel free to let us all know-- definitely a more useful feature, in that case.

[@Mitchel-r6p]

@@gammaboy4568 anything except to blaze burners is a level 0 heat (passive) fueled blaze burner is 1 (heated) superheated blaze burner is 2 (superheated)

[@Brenden-H]

@@Mitchel-r6p camp fires are level 0 passive heat

[@SpaceBurgerSteve]

The thing about windmills taking up vertical space is that you can fit more in a single chunk, which is good if you have limited simulation distance. Giving them an F feels a little harsh, but to each their own. 🙂

[@deadoon]

Vertical water wheels, or vertical passive steam engine arrays would use that space more efficiently.

[@XiaoYueMao]

so can waterwheels, remember that same 32 block distance that waterwheels got, was if all spread in 1 line, but they can be compacted into that 2x2 orientation quite easily and only extend like 5 blocks, waterwheels can also be oriented vertically but the reason for its low score ISNT its size, its due to size and SU ration, the windmills is EXACTLY as large as an un-compacted waterwheel setup but for that same size gives HALF the SUs... its trash sorry

[@Kokangalang]

@@deadoon Making a vertical water wheel system would still be a inferior option along with the steam engine due to the exterior components.

[@deadoon]

@@Kokangalang Their output more than makes up for that. A max speed/power windmill is the most efficient, which generates 8192 SU total and takes up 129 blocks of space. You only need 32 water wheels to reach that output, if you go with a 3x2(from the top) space for the wheels, and a +2 wide space for the linkage for a total of 3x4, you can get the same yield in only a 96 block space. 4 passive steam boilers, 5 if you account for powering the pump can be even smaller if you were to develop it for compactness.

[@Kokangalang]

@@deadoon Although if I were to make a power source to take up the least horizontal space, I would use windmill towers. The only appeal of windmills I see is that you dont have to spend all that time to make the water sources or have to make some complex doohickey to power the steam engine. Windmills are the most simple in scalability, just add more. Giant windmill also look 30x better than a water wheel column or a steam engine that looks like it is from Howl's Moving Castle.

[@justincoombs9048]

Small water wheels are very power dense. In a 15x15x3 area, with small waterwheels, 14,080 SU, near zero us/t. 6x6x3 x4 unused spaces within that area. 1 water source block, 56 small water wheels, 56 gearboxes, 104 filler blocks (glass?). Looks like a giant plus symbol laying on the ground. can be repeated vertically with direct contact power is coupled automatically. Raw cost: 196 andesite, 22 iron/zinc, 392 logs, 104 sand.

[@gaiamission7200]

as space is typically at a premium, I agree with the idea that the water wheel is the meta, my early game setup is currently fully large water wheel powered. currently have an array generating 20k SU and its powering a pair of elevators and my neighbors small infinite iron machine. its simple to set up, easy to scale without needing to add shafts or gears to merge outputs. when I need more SU I just expand the power cave and extend the waterwheel basin

[@AnkleBiter]

Being sponsored by a University is really fucking cool. Congrats!!

[@dejojotheawsome]

Thank you!

[@jackgamer6307]

The lag issue of lvl.9 steam engines can be solved by the stuffs addon mod that lets you feed lava directly into blaze burners, no funnels/arms needed

[@Markovia21]

What's the exact name of the mod?

[@jackgamer6307]

@@Markovia21 The create crafts and addons mod adds the straws, and the create diesel generators mod offer an "easy" way to automate a superheating fuel, by oil refining

[@Markovia21]

​@@jackgamer6307 thank you!

[@DennisRyu]

The numbers you see are microseconds per tick needed to calculate that block. Meaning the processor has to do that amount of microseconds of calculations to update a tick of that block. Generally speaking the values you see are still very low (hence green) but they add up.

[@karoll2914]

But what mod add this?

[@qwart22]

Ye but if you’re smart you’d have a infinite lava source long before there’s be any lag

[@Erolunai]

one passive generated boiler, no blaze burners needed, is only 4 copper tanks, one steam engine, and a campfire to provide 2048 su, so you could get a fairly compact setup with, say... row of 4x passive steam boiler columns, then a row row of space / water transport, and then another row of 4x passive, and get that 16384 SU while taking up an absurdly small amount of space, it would just be more expensive in some ways, and then you could use the components later on when you DO get the blaze burners

[@mrShift_0044]

2048su... so... 4 large water wheels in a row...

[@deadoon]

​@@mrShift_0044 Which take up 36 cubic blocks and require a water source. Passive generator with a magma cube or some other source only needs 5, but uses up some water and the SU for that, which is negligible, especially with how easy it is to make a wall of them. you can place them side by side, and as long as you don't make any 2*2 sections from above you can place them really compact manners, like rows of them 1 block apart. So each area the size of say 8 wheels tall(4096su, for the heat, 4 boilers, engine, gap, shaft) would produce 12k SU. You could fit the water sources and pump between the engines too, or attach them to your central water system you might use for other stuff.

[@Erolunai]

@@mrShift_0044 Yup, you've got it! 2048 is 512 x 4, one smallest passive steam boiler is equivalent to four large water wheels, that's correct, you can use either of those setups to get the same amount of stress, try it out!

[@somo4227]

requires much more setup compared to using wood a shaft and a water bucket 4x

[@Erolunai]

@@somo4227 Oh yeah if it's too much for you I don't blame you. You gotta play however is most comfortable for you.

[@mr.lemonlime8935]

One thing to consider is the passive steam engine. Batsys has a design that fit into a pretty small space and still have 16k stress

[@mrShift_0044]

It's so inefficient that you can make it powered and recive the stress units tenfold.

[@martincassidy2102]

@@mrShift_0044 passive steam engines can be powered with a campfire so can be used pre-nether

[@meraduddcethin2812]

Agreed. I've used passive steam engines quite a bit and it's space and lag effective without the Nether. Bonus for the steam engine is that you _can_ scale it up to blaze-powered mid-/late- game if you desire. Double bonus if there's a mod like Supplementaries which allows for VERY compact infinite water generation/delivery.

[@Zodaxa_zdx]

actually crazy a college has sponsored stuff like this, keep it up

[@yolomationanimation9784]

I definitely think that steam engines could be bumped a bit higher on lag. Like realistically speaking one doesn’t *need* to make a laggy cauldron lava farm, and even if you did you could maaaayyyybe make an infinite lava source but that bumps the space efficiency way way down lol. You could use charcoal from an already nearby wood factory, you could use maybe autocrafting all those spare sticks into ladders to fetch you some extra burn time from just an ordinary tree farm, heck you could even use eggs (but that’s probably way laggier tbh lmao). Either way for us with potatoes I’m glad you’ve done all this testing in one video. Now I know, water wheels are the best wheels

[@noelka8134]

The lag is absolutely overlooked, because bro doesn't know what a microsecond is. It's really small. There's like 50k of them in single tick, so ~100 that steam engine wastes is not a big deal

[@CubeInspector]

​@@noelka8134 you apparently don't understand that these arent the only things that will be causing lag. You make these to power machines. It's a compounding thing. Everything adds up. In a vacuum sure, there's no problem. Now add all your other machines.

[@noelka8134]

@@CubeInspector i don't think you'll ever need more than one max level steam engine can produce. Create doesn't actually need big amounts of power, unless you're making giant factories that produce every possible item, but at this point i wonder why you're playing minecraft, and not factorio or satisfactory or whatever else. In most other cases you need very little power to run your crafting machines, and everything else is done with contraptions and/or trains, which don't need any power at all.

[@Bookslayer10]

@@noelka8134 Lag is a very big issue for a lot of players, especially on servers, and when they are making automated bases with tons of crushing wheels, fans, crafters, presses, whisks, elevators, pipes, and whatever else. You need tons of SU to run all that stuff at max capacity. Maybe instead of judging players because they decide to fully engage with the content of a tech mod, you can learn how Satisfactory isn't even a real automation game. Create has better automation gameplay than Satisfactory's miles of repetitive manifold designs, and Minecraft is also obviously better when it comes to the exploration and base building.

[@noelka8134]

@@Bookslayer10 if you want to play automation, factorio is obviously better, because it won't lag even on the potato pc pretty much ever (you need a REALLY large base to decrease your UPS). If you want to play automation, exploration, base buliding and whatever else minecraft is at the same time, well, prepare your CPU, it'll hurt. Also video doesn't mention lag being created by other ways of getting energy, as well as all the other machines in create, which i'm sure is also an issue. At least mechanical hands were shown to be somewhat laggy, and they're used very often in complicated automation.

[@NobodyEvenReadsNames]

Nice thing about the windmill is that it is itself a moving contraption. You can make a spinning tree or crop farm by gluing the parts directly to the wool on your sail and it just works without having to think about SU generation at all

[@aRandomDudeDRS]

Waterwheels go at 8 and 4 RPM, not 16 and 8. Not that it makes a big difference ^^ I'd add against windmills that that their speed is reliant on the number of sails you have, which makes them quite annoying to work with when you don't have max sails

[@dejojotheawsome]

Ooooh very true! Got my RMPS all funny!

[@klyxx8990]

9:20 "Agamleration" XD You went for Conglomerate and Amalgamation at the same time! That was hilarious.

[@duncanm9818]

i believe theres a mod thatll help mitigate some of the lava production lag for the boilers. i cant remember what its called, but it basically adds straws that you can give to the blazes that let you pipe lava directly into them, so you dont need the arms and buckets, or a blaze cake farm

[@DarkXSolver17]

I think it's Create: Stuff and Additions that adds the rolling thing that turns bamboo into straws and therefore allows you to pump lava directly into blaze burners, dunno if that's the mod it actually is from since the mod page doesn't mention it but it's a mod that adds a lot of stuff so who knows

[@hawkings22]

@@DarkXSolver17 Create: Crafts & Additions, according to several modpacks I use

[@DarkXSolver17]

@@hawkings22 Yup, mb. I was pretty close though, didn't realize there were two mods that had almost the exact same name

[@Solesteam]

13:20 Even in the fantastical world of Minecraft, pollution is a bit of an issue.... Frame pollution...

[@ChosenArchitect]

you could say this is revolutionary!

[@siesmec]

Good one

[@nithsk]

no way a minecraft youtuber is being sponsored by a university

[@AJ-Palermo]

The water wheel and large water wheel are not effectively the same. The SU stays the same when you change the speed. The water wheel produces 256 SU at 8 RPM, and the large water wheel produces 512 SU at 4 RPM. If you use gears, a rotational speed controller, etc. to double the speed of the large water wheel, it produces 512 SU at 8 RPM, double the SU of the regular water wheel. Components (mixers, drills, etc) use more SU at a higher speed, so yes, you effectively get more SU at a lower speed, but it doesn't change the stress capacity of the system, only the stress units required by the component

[@GigaPangolin]

Windmill bearings are incredibly convenient as replacements for mechanical bearings, as you no longer need to worry about power if you simply hook some sails up to the contraption.

[@fenn_fren]

6:00 spat all over my keyboard when I saw the giant rotating SUC

[@jacobliao6058]

the most unexpected sponsor but i love it great job

[@anonymouskitten4715]

Windmills are way more aesthetic

[@WanderingWolfe]

Using the "shared water source" trick with small water wheels would allow for 4 small water wheels in a 3x3 space with one source block. It would cost a bit more with the shafts, but you could effectively get to 16k with 8 layers of this setup. Thank you for this video, it honestly just made me realize a lot of powerful stuff. :D

[@draconiumnova5110]

Windmills are fun to have in builds. Might not be the best for stress generation, but you can make some really nice looking windmills

[@dejojotheawsome]

Absolutely! The decoration aspect of windmills is peak

[@Cookie-Lord95]

1:30 I used this trick to make a waterwheel tower, it was crazy man. Crazy? I was crazy once…

[@auroraborealis2886]

This feels like factorio, where solar panels and accumulators are the best UPS-wise, and nuclear reactors are bad in the long run for UPS.

[@Winasaurus]

And similar in that Reactors eventually run out of fuel and have logistical issues. Meanwhile solar panels+accumulators you just slap down anywhere and they solve themselves. No trains, no belts, no sulfuric acid to mine ore, just throw them in a mall and blueprint click your power issues away. You can do the same here with the waterwheels or windmills. Just add it to an existing shaft and boom, a few thousand SU at no further cost.

[@Tehn00bA]

Thank you for taking in consideration people who have potato with screens.❤

[@gudadada]

If only they didn't make me lose 300fps per wheel

[@jondorthebrinkinator]

Windmills have a pretty nice use case even in the early game. A windmill is a spinning contraption just like one running off a mechanical bearing, so a simple spinning crop farm is super easy in the early game with a windmill bearing, a few harvesters and a minimum of 8 sails. It spins pretty slowly, but crops don't grow in a single tick, so it's fine. And you can still use the output shaft for SU for other machines.

[@dinhero21]

12:55 The unit Observable is using is microsecond (µs) and 100µs (estimated total of lag) isn't that much, you would need about 500 steam engines (100µs-lag-generating sources) to start to cause damage to the server (1tick of lag per tick), of course that is only considering the amount of lag produced by the steam engine, realistically about 200, which is way more then you would ever realistically build imo. So Steam Engines might be less lag-efficient but I wouldn't rate Steam Engines a C tier (15:42), at most a B but most probably A (with 0-lag sources at S).

[@mrShift_0044]

In short: whatever you need the power from a steam engine is more laggy than a steam boiler you built to power it.

[@dejojotheawsome]

I admittedly forgot to better clarify that steam engines get laggy the more of them you have loaded so they're most server killers than anything, that's definitely my bad

[@edwardtengan6495]

Foxynotail video on lag for create was insane. I kept having problem with lavas in my steam engine so I just put a small tree farm on everyone to feed it charcoal

[@TiernanOleary]

Create Diesel Generators has entered the chat

[@АсланИскаков-м9э]

They aren't in vanilla create

[@TiernanOleary]

@@АсланИскаков-м9э nah

[@crimsonfox87fluxule62]

That wouldn't really matter because creators already a mod. I don't get what the point is with people wondering if it's in the vanilla create, if your computer can't handle a secondary mod then that's a different issue, but adding add-ons isn't cheating because you're already playing a mod. And yeah, using create all by itself is useful because sometimes you just need to get things done without any help, but this is different because of how easy it is.

[@nhowie8503]

I love how i can predicted that even kids do understand dis and im even a kid but i love how you produce su and rpm irs kinda creative and good for us because as a Minecraft player i can learn from minecraft and profile it into real life.😊😊😊

[@YEAHKINDA]

dejojo you can cut the time for the steam even further if you make camp fires, and if need be just make more. Copper is easy to come by so the only real issue is the iron and gold, and even that is basically nothing.

[@naberville3305]

I have built a 10,000,000su plant with only passive boilers. It only took 3 towers up to world height lol

[@mrShift_0044]

@@naberville3305 It's totally worth the cost of 109 thousand copper blocks, andesite alloy and 30000 campfires just to NOT set up a piss cheap kelp/wood farm and smelter that will power a level 9 boiler indefenetely.

[@dejojotheawsome]

I didn't include the campfires one cause honestly it's not worth the time investment over water wheels

[@naberville3305]

@@mrShift_0044 but then I wouldn't be able to brag about building 10 million SU with passive boilers.

[@3-valdiondreemur564]

There's a mod that makes blaze burners able to be fed via fluids, which not only makes them more compact, but also significantly less laggy. Love that mod.

[@GTech_builds]

wow that is very helpful for my create series on my channel i will tag you when the video comes out

[@skeej_inc]

FINALLY SOMEONE AGREES WITH ME! #WATERWHEELSUPREMACY

[@bobberman4641]

I did not expect a literal college to sponsor a minecraft video at all. I’m both impressed and scared

[@kurotsune77]

for someone who sounds all high and mighty, you could figure out that μs/t means microseconds per tick

[@AJ-Palermo]

He doesn't even understand how SU works! If you use gears, a speed controller, etc. to increase the speed of a large water wheel, the SU is still 512, it doesn't decrease when you increase the speed. Components use more SU at a higher speed, but changing the speed doesn't affect the stress capacity of the system. If you double the speed of a large water wheel you get 8 RPM 512 SU, which is twice as powerful as the 8 RPM 256 SU of a regular water wheel. Oh yeah, and he also got the water wheel speeds wrong!

[@9_1.1]

@@AJ-Palermo he also said that large water wheels are more cost effective because you dont use shafts in the crafting recipe, which was annoyingly stupid because you need to make a small water wheel to make a big one, which means you have to spend a shaft and 8 planks, and then 8 more planks for the same power output and more required space. how did he get sponsored by a university? 😂

[@manender1020]

​​@@9_1.1it is more cost effective since you get 2x more SU for the same amount of shafts, and you get 1.5x more SU per shaft and the same speed if you attach a small wheel to it

[@НепТор]

13:00 Allow me to explain in simple wprds. The mod *Observe* allows you to see how much different entities, i.e. machines, mobs, farms, basically anything that isn't a decorative block or a storage block, but actually has some sort of function, affect the performance of your game The strange unit of measurement the mod uses for that is μs/t, which means microseconds per tick (for future reference, microsecond is 1/1000th of millisecond or 1/1000000th of a second.) And while this might sound a bit confusing, we only need to remember that Minecraft normally runs at a rate of 20 ticks per second, this is our TPS. That, in turn, means that for every tick, Minecraft has 50ms of time to do all the calculations for every growing carrot, for every hopper that pulls items from a chest, for every furnace that smelts something, for the new positions of every mob and player, it has to do it all in the allocated time for the game to run smoothly It's pretty easy to achieve in the early stages and the game has plenty of time to spare, but let's imaging for example that we bulit a super smelter with thousands of furnaces and hoppers, an iron farm to end all iron farms, and a massive carrot farm to solve world hunger. This will drastically increase the amount of calculations the game has to do each tick, and at some point, it will take longer than the usual 50ms to do those calculations. *This* is what we usually call lag in Minecraft And this is also the point where our measurements of μs/t finally come into play. They show how much time each entity requires from the game to calcilate its functions each tick. Let's return to an earlier ecample. If we have a thousand furnaces that each take 5 μs/t and three thousands hoppers that each take 10 μs/t to do the calculatuons, we will see that our smelter requires 5ms to calculate the furnaces' functions and 30ms to calculate the hoppers' functions each tick. Determining how much time an iron golem farm requires from a game would be a little more difficult, but let's say 20ms, and a carrot farm that also requires 5ms to determine the crops frowth. Sum it all up with whatever calculations the game was doing in the background and we get a time of more than 60ms, which is longer than the base allocated time, so the game slows down a bit, from 20 TPS to around 18 TPS to continue running as smoothly as it can The mod Observe allows you to identify the things that consume too much computational power from the game to dismantle them and return the game to normal running speed, which is usually a problem only in a moded game From experience, I had a bit of lag in my sp world and upon inspection, I found out that LaserIO works horribly with ColossalChests. I had some nodes that alone took 7000 μs/t, absolutely tanking the game's performance

[@endymon5240]

Can't you power a steam engine with a campfire, thus making smaller ones far less laggy and easy to get and scale?

[@mrShift_0044]

Lmao, with minimal heat you get 512su per campfire and at this point it is easier to just place a couple of large water wheels.

[@martincassidy2102]

@@mrShift_0044 base steam engine produces 2048SU

[@NIKE-biker]

Ah, a fellow Water Wheel enjoyer

[@SivaExperiment]

µs is a microsecond or 1 millionth of a second.

[@cephalonwolf8422]

Trying to lean Create maxes out my stress units. 😅 This video was actually very informative though and already has rebooting up my Minecraft world again. I will be back for more. 😈

[@darkgamer1070]

Stoped the kidfrom saying first

[@Titanium_Carbide]

Youre a true hero

[@Scute_King]

You sir are a Legend 💪

[@original_pandus]

Sigma and giga chad

[@pierce7992]

First

[@ccyberplayz9812]

Hi Dejojo!! i love your arcane engineering sseries and am currently watching it! glad to be here early!

[@Safetyswitch]

something about water wheels that people seem to not notice is: you can stretch 1 source block infinitely* you just need a high ceiling and a lot of water wheels, then you can make a tower

[@мишафилиппов-ч9т]

I'll name the advantages of windmills. Let's start with the fact that you can glue various useful things to the structure, which allows you to harvest free of charge, as well as produce energy. Windmills will work even in the lower world (water wheels can also work from lava, but steam engines will need a supply of water), windmills are well suited for complex mobile things, such as a 3D printer (it's possible, I managed to do it and it really prints the diagram, but can't put mechanical belts. Few people know, but by placing the scheme in the deployer filter slot, it will print). You can also touch on internal combustion engines from Create TFMG and electric motors from Create Crafts Additions. Small ICEs are compact and fast, which saves a lot of space. Oil is required, but in reality, when processing it, one way or another you will get different products that need to be put somewhere, and in fact there is a lot of oil itself. A large engine is a serious source of energy, but takes up more space and is more complex overall. All ICEs operate in the nether world (pun intended). Electric motors essentially release stored energy rather than produce it, but can also be used to conveniently transfer power and are useful in the nether world. You can build a train that will change batteries at your base in hell, and you can also increase the load without any problems, but then the charge will disappear faster. Both of these options will look good on the worldshell from CSim (Create Aeronautics, Offroad Expansion, Liftoff and more), and now Create Interactive has appeared, so you can make yourself a base on a train, where there will be a rail factory

[@ManMan-zk8vz]

@@мишафилиппов-ч9т late but they are also silent and i put one in my roof to power an elevator. Listening to water noises in my base would suck

[@KateYagi]

Keep in mind that windmills can be the contraption itself: many sweeping arm contraptions can use a windmill bearing instead of a mechanical bearing, and not need a power source.

[@dejojotheawsome]

Very true! But this video was about SU generation so it didn’t really fit the theme

[@astrogamer158]

Adding 1/4 blocks for water, since multiple water wheels can use the same source and you cant do more than 5 because it needs to flow, but 4 because its more tileable, the normal water wheels would be the most space-efficient. Normal water wheel: 1.25 blocks Large water wheels: 9.25 blocks Normal water wheel: 204.8 SU/block Large water wheel: 55.35 SU/block Now, let's compare these to steam engines: (assuming we're using an infinite lava source) Level 9 steam engines, 147,456 SU, take: 36(boiler), + 18(shafts and engines) + 9(blaze burners) + 1(water pump) + 1(water source blocks, assuming same 2x2 source used for 4 engines) + 1(mechanical arm) + 8(lava spout fill cycle) + 1(lava pump) +1(rope pulley) +4(fluid pupes) = 80 blocks, ignoring the space for the infinite lava source. Therefore: steam engines = 1,843.2 SU/block. So while they are Significantly more space efficient, around 9x as much as small water wheels, this requires a 10k block lava source. So untill you need ~2.36 million SU, small water wheels would be more space efficient. (And this isnt 2.304 million SU because you can't have a partial steam engine.)

[@kenbaird7454]

Massive lava sources are fairly easy to get by either making a nether factory or bringing it in via train, and I personally turn down the "blocks needed to be considered infinite" a lot to allow using large lava lakes in the overworld for sources

[@Zinc65.39]

I believe that one of the criterias should have been aesthetically pleasing. Like whenever someone is trying to build a really nice looking world things that actually look nice inside

[@FioreFire]

Counterpoints for windmills as someone newer to the mod: windmills can look really cool (you can build a literal windmill to literally mill your flour, and power the rest of the farm while you're at it!) and are only a small step up from waterwheels in terms of how easy they are to understand and get working, whereas the barrier to understanding and getting into steam engines and the contraptions to power them can be pretty overwhelming to someone who doesn't already have quite a bit of familiarity with the mod

[@deltacx1059]

10:35 let's not forget the size of the farm for fuel and all the support equipment.

[@JoshuaGanoTyraxLightning]

I think the reason Steam Engines are called expensive is that it's frighteningly easy to be greedy and wish we could renewably and permanently keep them permafed with Blaze Cakes for MAXIMUM POWER!!! ;) Steam Engine Costs really aren't that bad if one can be more 'modest' and settle for Lava. The biggie resource concern to watch out for is Copper, which can only be found in one place in the game... everywhere. :P

[@EngineeringDruid]

with your testing, i recommend getting everything into the same speed, then measuring the SU, as 16k Su at 32rpm is 4x better than 16k Su at 8rpm

[@dantenotavailable]

So I thought the same way but just to be sure I tested it and it doesn't actually seem like that's the case. I put together two identical setups with an encased fan leading to a rotation speed controller set to 256. You can run it with a single large wheel or two small wheels. Doubling the speed does double the SU but that's not related to the stress source, all that changes is the machines needed to get up to speed.

[@Monochromerider]

Lets say it like this. For me as an aesthetic builder, Windmills and Steam engines deserve S tier just bcuz of the looks, water wheels really have to sit somewhere in the mountains or a waterfall to look good

[@Solesteam]

1:54 I wish I knew this ages ago!

[@joshsolders5543]

I think one thing that can be said about windmills that isn't necessarily true of others is that you can build farms out of windmill and then you farm can generate power for other things. I hope this hasn't changed in more recent updates, but I built a giant kelp farm that was built using a windmill bearing and then used that to power other things (Using TangoTek's design from a while back when he first experimented with Create). Assuming things haven't changed, at minimum, you can create farms without needing to try and route power to it or add extra things to the system.

[@kubson519]

you dont need blaze burners for steam engines, any heat source works, its just less effective

[@DreadKyller]

For me the main use for windmills is if I need rotation in a contraption. Using a rotational bearing and hooking it to power takes energy from my supply. Building a windmill provides the rotation directly as my contraption can just be built directly on the windmill, and the windmill will still generate power even with the contraption attached.

[@renkitten1]

an easy potential way to solve the laggy steam engine problem is the Liquid Fuel addon. Allows you to pump the liquid lava directly in, eliminating the depot mechanical arm and the need to circulate the bucket.

[@I5268-t2d]

I like the nuclear power plant(jk, I usually play create in creative, however I am starting a heavenly modded server with a few friends, about 550 mods)

[@Poldovico]

Windmills look cool and they're easy to place. They can scale down to be smaller than most decent looking waterwheel setups when you account for water, containment, and decoration. Decent for exposed, low power mechanisms in awkward places, and the easiest way to build a rotating contraption. That's the only niche I think fits them.

[@slaycraft793]

Ty bro, now I'll hope on my world and power my 1.5M su factory with only water wheel.

[@Hebytherry]

🤯

[@nati0598]

2:58 "This is the most efficient structure" Ahkhtually, placing the water source one block closer to the wall makes it possible to remove all supporting structures on top, since water wheels don't allow the water to flow sideways.

[@washedupfries]

bro got sponsored by a whole university for a Minecraft video, what a wacky world we live in.

[@TuxieBSOD]

It's not the base game, but I think it's create additions and crafts that allows you to give each blaze burner a plastic straw. They can then consume lava directly, which is very neat.

[@DarkSwordsman]

I think each have their uses. For example, we have oak tree farms running off windmills, because they don't require that many SU and they just run constantly. I like water wheels also as a cheap and quick way to get *some* power to separate things. But then I have a Steam Engine to power the Alternators, 4 of which requiring 64k SU and that is just barely enough to power my current AE2 setup. We also have a separate Steam Engine for an infinite redstone farm, and two 8x radius Oak farms are just barely enough to power it constantly. We are looking into Blaze Cakes.

[@slothgamer2317]

"You have to go into the nether" Create Astral Players: Are you serious right now?

[@thedodorex7612]

Very new to create, but if I may offer a counter argument, technical space VS applied space. The wind mill loses for technical but might arguably win In application. The water wheel requires fairly rigid set up, and the configuration showed first could be hard to work around, while the wind mill can be be pointed anywhere. Follow up, water in any form requires some level of either containment or compensation in build plans, and it should be easier to send a wind mill straight upward than water. If the base is laid out in a vertical manner, with limited space, the windmill may actually beat the water wheel. If anyone disagrees feel free to let me know

[@vrabeldawg]

Did I just get jumpscared by a SNHU ad on a minecraft create video lol

[@doubt3430]

As someone who's playing prominence It's all fine and dandy until your source of water freezes for winter

[@bobbys332]

One thing that makes steam engines so powerful is the highest tier produces just ungodly amounts of SU and takes up so little space (by itself). The biggest issue with it is the need to refuel which means a fully functional blaze cake farm and feeding setup. Figuring out the numbers as you did makes total sense, but when you only need 1 power source for such huge factories steam engines for me will always be the best.

[@isaacsizeland9649]

Note! The steam engine is in fact easier than the water wheel for time efficiency! in newer (and perhaps many older) versions of create mod, the steam engine can be powered with 1 heat level (2048su) in a minimal engine with a CAMP FIRE. only one campfire is necassary and means the power source is almost cheaper than the water wheel itself in terms of resources. All new and most intermediate create mod players may view this as a godsend if you didn't know about it before, it's viable up until you can get a lava farm going which needs brass and blaze burners anyway. Hope somebody found this useful.

[@BirbIrl]

About water wheels and lag: for most servers, the lag impact actually barely mater for the feeding mechanism. Most of your farms will be causing 999 fold the amount of lag impact Meanwhile, water wheels are the devil in terms of another performance issue. Graphical rendering. Thankfully in the world of sodum and other performance mods this isn't as terrible as could be but go ahead, place 50 water wheels, power them and see what happens See how well your game will run when you *look* in it's direction, even with performance mods gahah You could put the water wheels in a remote place, but then you'd need either an electricity or ender SU transportation addons to take that power far away from player loaded chunks, and instead use another addon to load the chunks (or use nether portals) And y'know, loading a raw chunk far away probably causes more lag than the feeding mechanism Even better, this assumes you even have access to addons, because if you have any addons you can just make blaze burners accept liquids which completely gets rid of the performance issues Also the sails are more scalable and more efficient! If you fill the space right, you can store 8192su using 129 blocks (128 sails+bearring) 14 water wheels use up 126 blocks excluding the water. assuming that you need at least a single block of flowing water, so let's say you stack two water wheels on one another another to make a 3(2*3+1)*X ("3" is width of the water wheels, "2" is the number of water wheels per row, the second "3" is the height of a single water wheel and the "1" is the empty space you need between the wheels for the water to flow, while X is the number of rows you want. in that case we want 6 rows of 2 water wheels which is 3*7*6 which is ALSO 126 blocks, exactly! Alright so within 126 blocks of a windmill, which generates 8192su You can fit 6*2 aka 12 large water wheels. That only gives you 6144su Not only are sails not as bad as you mention them to be, they're actually *better* than water wheels! How silly is that :P I don't blame people for being wrong but i think this video needs a proper follow up/correction in the comments

[@Niccokayl]

May be possible to power the blaze burners with mech pumps directly from the cauldrons? with that, you would be able to reduce the lag. I don't know if you actually can, I am a new Create player lol

[@dejojotheawsome]

that's addon features, not from base create mod

[@Niccokayl]

@@dejojotheawsome Yeah! I just encountered it on the mod list of a modpack that puts Create + Ex Nihilio + ProjectE all in a skyblock, it is still pretty useful though.

[@ABuffalo69420]

i did not know that funny trick with the small water wheel to speed it up. thank you

[@WheezingEngineer]

The windmill is kinda good for aesthetics too. And smaller systems. For example I have another mod/pack that adds industrial hemp plants. They output fibre. 3 fibre make a string. So you could use a waterwheel harvester and a windmill for conveyors, mixers and presses to automate wool and string. But I can see how it’s very expensive and not completely worth it without a mod like that, plus for larger machines.

[@jaded0mega]

dunno if they removed this feature but smaller steam engines can be powered with a campfire, doesn't even cost any extra fuel beyond that, the blaze burner is just if you want more power in exchange for having to keep it fueled

[@lunarflare6040]

Windmills are only bulky when they're static or if you care about aesthetics (in which case you probably want a big spinning structure in the middle of your base anyway), once they're spinning you can build right through them