The $500,000,000 Salvage of The Black Swan

[@waterlinestories]

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[@oldtugs]

The museum in Cartagena, Spain displays some of the gold and describes it as being stolen from Spain by the treasure hunters. The museum doesn't mention that the gold was stolen from the indigenous people who slaved in the gold mines. Shameless and disgusting.

[@chris00nj]

Spain had the resources to try to find it to recover it. When they never bothered to try, it is abandoned and should be up for grabs

[@alexgerrits349]

Salvage rights say to claim ownership, you must pay the recovery team for their services. The judge ruled the way he did because scoring points with Spain is much more valuable than points with a struggling dive crew.

[@snarkybu42]

I have been binging your videos over the last 3 days. Your story telling is captivating and I think you’re going places! Keep it up!

[@waterlinestories]

Thanks, I really appreciate that

[@KingBattlon]

I second this, stumbled across the channel and I love listening to the stories told here!

[@hungryhedgehog4201]

Spain not giving Peru shit is very spanish of them. Thievery is legal if countries do it.

[@Trikipum]

dude, it is not just "a shit ton of gold", pero did not even exist back then.. what the hell are oyu talking about...

[@The_ZeroLine]

Uh, all that gold + silver was mined by those who lived in the area at the cost of many lives who were enslaved. Beyond that, between epidemics + conquering they killed 90% of the population. Spain deserves none of it.

[@jonathannocon]

It’s show that some Spaniards are full of crap to me. Surprise surprise 😅 They’ll say and do anything to get what they want (gold I this case) that they likely stole themselves in a far worst circumstances when they terrorised half of the globe during that era. It’s old gold too, so you have no idea how many ppl suffered or payed the ultimate price for it to come into existence. It’s like money these days, it’s not rly yours to keep. It’s just your turn with it for the time being. Hell, it wouldn’t shock me if this old treasure has several curses attached to it. Just look at the ppl now days getting in involved with it. They all suffered in more ways that ppl could explain.

[@koltoncrane3099]

Trikipum Peru did exist a few years ago when the court case gave it to Spain. Point is if you’re going to promote ethics and morals etc like others say about rule of law then you also must acknowledge Spain destroyed tons of civilizations and kidnapped rulers. Spain literally was a billionaire drug cartel haha in some sense. They did move drugs just like the Uk which is how the Uk got hung kong. But point is Spain used slave labor to get the gold. Does Spain still own the land in Peru today? Obviously is Spain owned Peru still today then there’d be no question of Spain should own it. But since Spain lost their azz and all their form conquests why shouldn’t their prior colonies that they literally raped and pillaged why shouldnt they have a claim to it? In a world with dictatorships and no morals or ethics sure yes Spain 100% used slave labor to get the gold in Peru so they should own it still today, but if you think courts and society are better today you may just consider the land where the mines were or civilization was pillaged maybe they should own it.

[@cyberleaderandy1]

Typical of EU countries. They ignore the rules and promises and to hell with any fines. Only the UK was stupid enough to obey everything

[@chriscarey1478]

You can bet the rest of the treasure hunting world has learned the lesson -- keep your head down, vacuum it up fast, leave fast, melt it down, quietly sell to buyers, and to hell with intangible archeology . What a bleeding shame.

[@waterlinestories]

That sounds pretty accurate

[@zackzittel7683]

Yep, if you’re gonna be sneaky you gotta go all the way. Never shoulda taken pictures and shoulda melted it down.

[@koltoncrane3099]

I remember a video talking about archeology in Bolivia or Peru. They found little mummies or skeletons and collectors flew in on planes and took em a decade or two ago. If you think about it the Uk was the largest looter of antiquities around the world and promotes it to this day with still having Chinese porcelain being sold in auctions etc or priceless things that’s owned by the government in museums. The U.S. made a law museums must return Native American bodies etc but magically it’s ethical to keep mummies and gold coffins? There’s a ton of hypocrisy right there. But ya treasure hunters will either melt finds down or they’ll try to sell it on the black market which I’m sure happens.

[@BillWendell-y5c]

Danny Ocean, 5 years for trying to fence Inca ceremonial face masks. You think doing salvage they would watch "OCEAN'S" 11.

[@roji556]

Well that's because the broke and lame Spanish government is perpetually salty that their country sucks so they refuse to negotiate for anything ever.

[@pietop55]

You speak very well, sir! It's a pleasure listening to your stories!!

[@waterlinestories]

Thanks

[@lukeblackford1677]

As a retired diver, I can tell you, it’s cheaper to steal shit.

[@enja001]

thats a fact

[@Cammmmeron]

Lmao

[@AimeeAimee444]

Any stories you can share cryptically? 😉

[@johncaldwell-wq1hp]

YES !-AND KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT !!

[@SL4PSH0CK]

Damn

[@owenjamesk]

You have a great narration voice, thanks for the stories

[@nadiamarieusa]

New subscriber ! Love your stories, very well spoken. Im actually binged watching all your videos lol from the start. Very interesting ! Odyssey was playing very dirty in this case.

[@waterlinestories]

Yes they were but interesting stuff to be doing

[@scottessery100]

Spain 🇪🇸 said we’d share it with Peru 🇵🇪 Then said nah

[@waterlinestories]

Half a billion will do that to you.

[@tolufapohunda3420]

Spoken like a true colonizer. @@waterlinestories

[@waterlinestories]

I'm South African. We were colonised. Not the coloniser.

[@FF-ct5dr]

@@tolufapohunda3420 Better to colonize than be colonized

[@VashStarwind]

It really should be finders keepers. Most of those wrecks were probably paid back by insurance anyways. Hey that could be a good hustle, insure a ship, "sink" said ship, than have the precious cargo recovered, because apparently you still own it after insurance pays you...

[@kingscavenger4372]

What you think happen with the titanic ? The theory is they sunk the twin ship (completely identical) for insurance claims. The actual titanic never actually wrecked (up for speculation) but yea bro. The titanic was one big insurance scam

[@VashStarwind]

@@kingscavenger4372 Yeah i heard that it may have been swapped with the sister ship, the Olympic. Very possible. Back then no one would know the difference

[@troodon1096]

@@kingscavenger4372 People still haven't given up on this idiotic theory? If it was an insurance scam it was a pretty terrible one; the Titanic was very underinsured, the White Star Line lost a huge amount of money on the sinking, and that's not even counting that bad PR.

[@avgjoe5969]

If insurance company pays out, they are considered the "owners" after that. Government ships were almost never privately insured.

[@jamesgraham6122]

Sadly, as a result of the current policies in respect of recovered treasure, much of archeology will be lost to history. The Spanish would not get off their backsides to recover what they claim to be theirs, yet shout and scream as soon as someone with enterprise and energy does the hard work. There needs to be a revision of the current terms whereby the finder is guaranteed a substantial percentage of the recovered value. The ship, perfectly equipped for the work of recovery is no longer searching for treasure, the additional knowledge we gain from the archeology is wasting away on the sea-bed. The Spanish should be ashamed, they didn't deserve one coin from the find.

[@sylekin]

finders keepers

[@gwhizz5878]

Do I hear the spanish compensating all their victims through the inquisition ? Where is their strong sense or justice there ? They were happy to profit and continue to profit from their sins.

[@billbradleymusic]

Not a one.

[@pizzlerot2730]

Lol "finders keepers" is a concept that belongs on the primary school playground, and nowhere else. In the real world, people are expected to act like actual mature adults and follow basic moral tenets, one example being to recognize that the act of losing a piece of property due to circumstances beyond the owner's control does NOT automatically strip ownership rights from that party. If you lost your wallet out in the world, wouldn't you shout and scream if someone just helped themselves to your cash, your credit, your identity? Or would you be okay with them taking all of those things because you weren't out looking hard enough for it, so therefore "finders keepers"? It's sad that this even needs to be explained, but then there is a shocking number of grown-ass people who mentally seem to have never left the primary school playground.... 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@bencolbert6732]

​@pizzlerot2730 don't retrieve your shit for decades or hundreds of years? That's on you. Finders keepers makes sense here. An entire national government could easily do it, not doing it is their fault.

[@zlm001]

I wonder if one of the owners just felt Spain would be way worse than the other countries and figured they wouldn't get anything anyways, so they might as well just try to make a break for it and see what happens. I knew salvage laws could get complicated, but I thought operators were guaranteed a certain percentage no matter what. Maybe their shenanigans defeated this or the archeological value negated it. Maybe countries could offer a certain reward for locating and confirming sites as long searchers adhere to certain rules. I'm not sure how much money countries give to archeologists and historians to conduct expeditions to find such sites, especially if there's not a ton of evidence. Finding some middle ground might be better as more of these sites disappear year by year.

[@waterlinestories]

Salvage is one thing when its private. International Maritime laws are not even agreed by all countries. The more a I make these stories the more I realise that maritime expeditions are just not governed by the same rule as land. It really is the wild west and nobody or government agrees. Even when it seems clear that theres foul play, it almost never comes to any prosecution. Maritime Industry is an incredibly fascinating world.

[@h5mind373]

As someone who lives in Spain, I would not be surprised if the undersea exploration company had their lawyers perform due diligence with the Spanish authorities and realised they wouldn't have a ghost of a chance of keeping anything they found. Ask yourselves how much of that wealth subsequently went into the pockets of certain Spanish government officials.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

@@h5mind373 Considering the shear magnitude of the find, and the relative fiasco that IS STILL the Spanish Government's budget... for all the obvious profit margin, something's not getting where it should be... ...AND I'll leave it at that. ;o)

[@joesmith1142]

I have a deep suspicion a couple tons of gold coins disappeared here or there on the way to Florida :D

[@avgjoe5969]

@@h5mind373 I would agree. Portugal got strong armed quite quickly... if they could do that to another government, why not take everything from the private salvage company.

[@bradmoberly6164]

I don't blame oydessy. Spain butchered South America.

[@Trikipum]

and that is why south america is full of native people, with all kinds of native languages, have universities that are even older tha USA itself... because they butchered them right... that is why USA has the natives in human zoos called reserves while south american countries have millions and millions of natives... Do you even use your braincells before talking? lmao.. that logic...

[@sherylbjerre9636]

What a story! ( international greed) so very well researched & delivered!

[@waterlinestories]

Thanks. It’s one of those stories that has so many interesting aspects. I really enjoyed researching it.

[@beverlyreiner-baillargeon6205]

Cool story but I don't think any of us will ever know really how many coins they kept. Really nice haul though!!

[@waterlinestories]

😂 I definitely would have kept a bucket full

[@beverlyreiner-baillargeon6205]

@@waterlinestories Or 2 or 3....

[@waterlinestories]

🤫

[@kyleanuar9090]

I would have kept most and claims finding such amount and see what the greedy politics say. A metal melter should be on ship

[@matiasfpm]

Yup. Here in South America, we tend to joke about sPAIN giving back the gold that they "stole". (In the 16th century they suffered 5 cycles of inflation for that, hehe) 😂 Good vid m8

[@Ful-OGold]

The whole idea of finding treasure is to be able to keep it for yourself and get rich. I’m not dedicating my time and energy and money into finding something that will just get taken away for me with out not even a thank you.

[@terrydavis8451]

Im sorry but no way in hell I would be giving shit back to a govt who didnt do shit for it. I would rather die than give treasure back to a state who stole it in the first place.

[@waterlinestories]

I think I'd just keep it's secret and slowly sell it into the black market.

[@The_ZeroLine]

I agree 100%. I would have taken 85% of the buckets full of gold and said the remaining 15% was all we extracted if I was feeling friendly.

[@SonicPhonic]

@@waterlinestories I bet they kept a couple handfuls and sold a couple coins for a pretty penny.

[@waterlinestories]

@SonicPhonic I’m sure it was a few buckets of coins 🤣

[@Kid_Kootenay]

I like the chalkboard raised up like that a few inches higher makes a big difference :)

[@robinwiddrington5765]

Another very interesting article. I am torn on this. Odyssey was most likely doing some nefarious actions however, the governments of these nations are also greedy. Look at the history of Mel Fisher, Robert Marx, the brothers that sold their business to treasure hunt of Padre Island in Texas-all had to deal with govt attempting and sometime succeeding to seize their treasure finds after all the hard work is done. Some nations have a history of crooked actions after salvors have made contracts with them. The recent case of the San Jose off Columbia is an example. Archeology and heritage is important, but it often appears the treasure hunters are doing all the work, and the maritime archeologists are not the ones finding these wrecks.

[@Kshep84]

I love this channel

[@waterlinestories]

Thanks 👍🏻

[@jwarmstrong]

Plundered gold from another country is kept by Spain - he he -

[@BillWendell-y5c]

Do a vid on the fight over Black Sam Bellamy's Whydah, sunk off Cape Cod full of the proverbial pirate treasure.

[@waterlinestories]

I’ll check it out

[@Christbearer57]

Finders keepers. They should have got 50% at least.

[@anja2716]

By jove! How bloody interesting.

[@waterlinestories]

Yeah it’s one of the more interesting ones I think.

[@anja2716]

@@waterlinestories Most definitely. Brand new insight into something I knew absolutely nothing about. Brilliant.

[@claycarlton314]

Another great video! Cheers🎉

[@waterlinestories]

Thanks

[@duanecates1568]

It sounds like they were the only one willing and or capable in reaching & recovering the gold.

[@theq4602]

Okay so as a related question. When the atomic era began alot of steel and other metalic materials have slowly become contaminated with small amounts of radioactive impurities. These impurities prevent its use in ultra precise scientific equipment which require low background steel, IE steel with no contamination. One source of low background steel was pre wwii naval shipwrecks. Is there any evidence that vessels have been torn apart and re melted down to obtain this low background steel? Although nowadays its no longer an issue due to refined steel producing methods. But at one point it was a problem. Even a few hundred tons of steel like from a small vessel would suffice for thousands of instruments like Geiger counters.

[@skullsaintdead]

Oh its a massive problem, most pre-atomic WWII ships are at risk of being ripped apart by Chinese mega $$ salvages, entire war graves decimated (HMAS Perth for example, Im Aussie). Tbh i don't really know why older sailing ships (with treasure) aren't seen in the same light, they should be left alone if you ask me. Let them rest, poor souls. Profiting off their graves will just encourage profiteering, risk taking and these already incredibly wealthy rich men grabbing & destroying our graves. Who cares about treasure when men & women have drowned..?

[@danielkarlsson9326]

it has sadly been a massive problem especially regarding wrecks in Asia with many WW1 and WW2 military wrecks beeing destroyed and plundered. the wrecks who are above 100 meters depth are mostly completly gone whilst the wrecks in the real deep aka below 1000 meters are mostly untouched.

[@jeffengland9913]

If a country does not make any effort to salvage a ship for over 100 years. Any treasure hunters that find it should be able to keep it. Spain and England both can afford to do the same but chose not to. Their loss.

[@Southamericangirl42]

Spain couldn't. It doesn't even begin to compare to the UK.

[@airplanemaniacgaming7877]

@@Southamericangirl42 and what does Spain do when somebody does the work for them? They throw a hissy fit and shit in the pool.

[@markcoupe5748]

I wonder how many items went for a "walk" while it was at florida?

[@deanneuburger3869]

Great exposé, thank you! Was it greed from such a delicious find that was 100% their undoing? Too unsavory to play it safe and legal with waiting game? Would Spain have agreed to the compensation like UK with Sussex?

[@airplanemaniacgaming7877]

Spain went and said "Please help us Peru! We will share teh moneys with you if we win!" and then they turned around, and kicked Peru in the nuts again, centuries after the first time.

[@attemptityourself5662]

All im certain of is Spain did not deserve a single artifact from that ship. It wasnt theirs when it went down and it surely isnt now.

[@SonicPhonic]

Great story. This reminds me of when Canada seized the Spanish fishing trawler Estai in 1995 for disobeying international fishing laws close to Canada. There were multiple incidents with this boat, so the Canadian Coast Guard used a machine gun to request their cooperation. Spain sent it's navy to protect their fishermen, 4,000 km from home. Canada lost a lot of fish after that incident.

[@danielkarlsson9326]

Canada should have asked Iceland for help. Iceland had the fight of the British Royal navy using fishing boats and a small coastguard ship armed with nothing but a harpoon. And they Won both Wars if i rmember correctly. After that the law regarding Fishing in other nations economical and national sea borders was changed even though Britain tried its darnest to stop it. Just a few weeks ago Russia attacked a Norwegian fishing boat which was fishing inside Norways economical Zone, The reason was Russia wanted to shoot and bomb inside Norways waters.

[@SonicPhonic]

@@danielkarlsson9326 The problem wasn't with the Canadian Coast Guard, it's our politicians who backed down after threats from Spain and the EU.

[@airplanemaniacgaming7877]

@@SonicPhonic Typical of our government. The moment somebody *is breaking fucking international laws in OUR waters, that isn't some Joe Schmoe from Latin America or similar,* they piss themselves like a frightened horse and bend over to take it up the ass while saying sorry.

[@fahhcue]

There shouldn’t be any possible way for a government to take control of lost treasure!! If you didn’t spend the time, money and equipment to locate it, then you shouldn’t be able to get any of it.. If they were that concerned about getting it back then they should’ve been the ones putting in the work to bring it up!! Been at the bottom of the ocean for hundreds of years. But the second someone actually tracks it down, all a sudden they want their cut. If not the whole damn thing.. SMMFH.. Bunch of no good slimeballs if ya ask me!… 🤷🏻‍♂️🙄🤦🏻‍♂️ The reason they tie it up in court is so they can send their own people out to recover it, cutting the real finders completely out of the game.. That’s most likely the reason for not using their location on the ship. Can’t trust anyone, especially not any government!!! I ever find anything like that and Imma melt it all down. Idc about a historical value one bit. If you find something, just keep ya mouth shut or someone gunna relive it from your possession one way or the other most likely unfortunately..

[@waterlinestories]

I'm South African. We have, how shall I say, loose morals. I think off keep a treasure and not tell anyone. The trick would be to melt it down and sell it slowly to different people without attracting attention. An ounce here and an ounce there. Probably won't be easy to recover the tens of millions it takes to find it.

[@fahhcue]

@@waterlinestories I got thinking about this last night actually. I’d do it one of two ways. First thing that I’d do after location is go to those who will try taking it away, (AKA the government) and say look, this is what I’ve found, and this is what I want to reveal the said location. Then tell them that if they don’t want to pay. Then I shall go to people on the black market side of things and offer them the same exact deal. But make sure that they are well aware that if I’m forced to go that route, they obviously won’t have any way to recover it down the road. Because that’s exactly what they’d do, melt it all down and enter it into circulation among their various types of ways.. It’s pretty simple. If I go through the trouble of actually tracking down said treasure, then I’m absolutely going to get paid for my time, equipment, knowledge and whatever else all that entails! But one way or another, im fixin to get that bag!! 🤷🏻‍♂️😁

[@fahhcue]

@@waterlinestories Even if my actions mean that I must go to prison for however long.. Least I know that im set for life once I’m released.. That or my family would be at the very least! 🤷🏻‍♂️🙌🏼

[@waterlinestories]

The problem is, loose lips sink ships. You wouldn't be able to run an operation line this single handed so while you're in prison, sone other schmack is selling your secret. Nope I think you have to extract it abed smelt it down or sell it on the black market.

[@fahhcue]

@@waterlinestories Well yeah, you’d obviously split it up amongst the crew. Then you’d take your cut and stash it away with the only person knowing your hiding spot being a family member. That way if I’m not getting out, they’d be able to retrieve it when they’d need it. But yeah melting it down would likely be the best way to get the most out of what’s been found tho!.

[@mumbles_ttv]

aww yeh time for snacks and some waterline stories my tuesday just got goood

[@waterlinestories]

Now Im thinking about Popcorn...

[@willpugh8865]

If you see a sinking ship, you go to help, your allowed to keep some of the cargo as a form of payment for the rescue attempt -basically- Theres some caveats and such

[@waterlinestories]

Yep

[@helloMRdj1]

Oh, forgot a "Sinking ship" means one that has been in the bottom of the ocean for 200 years

[@avgjoe5969]

Actually no. The ship has to be abandoned or you have no right to salvage... and of course, good luck with the country abiding by anything legal or fair.

[@OhAwe]

Pretty impressed if they got the ship for just 5mill. A lot of older AIS only has a reach of about 5-10kms as well, just enough to let another ship know before they hit you. Mining might be a good cover for treasure hunting. Explains why you're down there and scraping up the seabed. Interesting the majority of the expected treasure was never found... Another great video.

[@Pewnhound112]

Wow, absolutely fascinating story. I’m definitely oversimplifying things here, but for me, this is a case of “finders keepers”. CEO had a legitimately good idea and business model, and was willing to spend the insane amount of money to see it through. Meanwhile Spain went full Spain and was like “uhhhh we’ve made absolutely zero attempt to recover this treasure over hundreds of years, but now that you’ve done all the work and spent all the money for us, we want it again”. Disgraceful from the Spanish government. But then, it’s the Spanish government so are we really surprised? Spain has a history of being world grifters.

[@thomasdykstra100]

Your narratives are perfectly "digested"--they are substantive AND "go down well"!

[@waterlinestories]

Thanks I appreciate that

[@5amH45lam]

ONE MILLION shipwrecks unaccounted for, you say? Anyone fancy an adventure?? I'm serious. By the way, it's yet another highly evocative, well-researched, superbly written, brilliantly presented upload that you've graced us with. Thanks for sharing your endeavours. 👍

[@waterlinestories]

Yeah when I was researching ships and their cost I thought I’d love to have $10 mil lying around so I can go search for shipwrecks

[@michelrood2966]

Im in .just say when

[@waterlinestories]

Ok the crew is starting to take shape. Just need a ship

[@LKre-vi5oq]

It's a fantastic dream. If I had money I would join up.

[@Dive_in_Muskoka]

@@waterlinestories what about the calypso?

[@mvtv-montanavigilantetv5976]

Well done. Really weaved a tapestry from ... uh, a few threads from this end if that can even rate. Agree completely w/motivation theory.

[@waterlinestories]

Hey Vince. Oh yeah I had plenty of great research to stue on. And way too much time in South Africa to mull over it. How are you getting on?

[@mvtv-montanavigilantetv5976]

@@waterlinestories Right on. Things much better than last time! Groceries, good tires and tons of snow these days and waiting for spring planting. Doubt I'd come BACK if I could walk thru to South Africa via Stargate. Hell, maybe NORTH A by this point! Cheers.

[@waterlinestories]

Yeah I'm back in Germany and counting the days to spring. But at least we don't have much snow right now where I am. If it weren't for my German wife I think I'd just stay in South Africa. I'll just keep working on that Stargate😳 Glad all is well your end

[@craftpaint1644]

When a choice is completely failing or getting sued corporations will always choose being sued. 👩‍🔧

[@juanmanuellatorre6779]

So the message from these governments is essentially: don't go searching for treasure or, if you do, do it illegally and keep your mouth shut. Genius.

[@NonStoppie]

You make very interesting videos. I enjoy them a lot.

[@waterlinestories]

Thanks for saying so I really appreciate that

[@bIametheniIe]

So taking stuff from someone's property is not stealing, but demanding the return of said property is stealing? WTF?!?!

[@jesterr7133]

I think you asked the big question. I don't think for a second that the returned every coin, since there is no way to verify how much they actually recovered. I think they knew they wouldn't get to keep it, so they did it secretly and took as much as they could get away with

[@danielprice7521]

They should have kept it all. The fact that a country can plunder gold from another country and then later claim the shipwreck is theirs is diabolical and has murderous intent. Stupid laws.

[@Trikipum]

plunder gold from another country?. At that point, it was spanish provices.. it was not "another country".. there wasnt even countries there back then.. what the hell are you talking about man?...It is funny, so americans stole another country of everything too?, or how many countries did they stole from? (appart from mexico of course, but that happened basically yesterday...).. tell me more about this logic you apply...

[@myfavoritemartian1]

Under reporting a find of unknown size WOULD be an easy way to make money. The reported size gets returned to Spain and the overage gets stashed somewhere. THEN how to get rid of it to both keep the value up as well as not get caught? Private collectors? Professional middle men? It would be a lot of work in any event.

[@waterlinestories]

I think you would have to smelt it. If something came up in the market at a later stage, there’s only one source.

[@myfavoritemartian1]

@@waterlinestories I agree , but that would be a shame.

[@stellaluna6421]

There's a lot of people saying "finders, keepers" but I don't think the same attitude would be applied to land-based archeological digs. That is to say, treating it as "treasure" (that should be treated as a commodity) rather than "historical good" (that should be treated as a public good). I think it's interesting that they're treated like property. I guess I assumed that ownership was essentially null once a ship's been sunken for a few hundred years, but I guess that shows you what I know about international maritime law.

[@airplanemaniacgaming7877]

Thing is, there's a difference between the land and the sea. I'll let you guess. Anyways, If it's basically off their proverbial back porch and they know where it is and _do nothing to salvage it, then throw the biggest hissy fit of all time when somebody else does the legwork FOR THEM,_ then they don't deserve a single. Fucking. Penny.

[@zlm001]

When I worked at Borders I wrote chit-chat with customers if they bought an interesting book. Some guy bought one about shipwrecks, or something specific like first hand accounts of shipwrecks or their manifests or something, and I made a comment or asked some questions and he said he worked for a company or group looking to salvage treasure and artifacts. I stupidly asked where, which of course he didn't answer. But then he didn't answer any other questions at all. I didn't even know that was still a thing and I just wanted to know what that was like and it still pisses me off to this day. If you need to be that secret, don't admit to what you do. I forget why I thought he was legitimate and not putting me on, there was something we talked about beforehand, because Borders was probably not a go to vendor for such books. But dammit, don't bring up something interesting and then immediately clam up about it. Just say you're a historian or whatever.

[@waterlinestories]

I think he was probably excited to talk about it and as oo as he opened his mouth he remembered his boss telling him to say nothing. Funny exchange.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

Dude was full of sh*t... I've catered a quite a bit through treasure hunters. They ARE a secretive bunch, but in idle chat, it's WAY TOO EASY as a "pick-up tool" for girls to keep their mouths 100% shut... SO when you ask "Yeah? Whereabouts?" Then the correct answer is something more like "Oh... right now we're in the Mediterranean"... or "El Caribe... The Spanish Main... You know, Pirates and Buccaneers and tropical breezes off the Florida coast..."... and the like... Maybe the Arctic, or North Atlantic... etc... They won't get more specific OBVIOUSLY... AND will even caution you. "Look, if you're thinkin' of gettin' into the business, you gotta learn that loose lips sink ships, and forfeit gold you ain't found yet. SO we got us a theory about a few possible sites in the area. This is gonna detail a few things we can check against for a better shot at registering the right papers the first time. Nothing like a paperwork f*ck-up to put the whole operation in the sh*tter... so you want to have your eye's dotted and your tee's crossed before you get lawyers involved." AND then they'll probably change the subject... something about gear, or adventurous explorations... something anecdotal about diving with noob's or fishing to pass time... who knows... Life at sea is full of crazy sh*t! BUT just as the story in the vid' proved, the international "rules" aren't even really rules, because governments get into disagreements all the time, even MORE confounding anytime words like "Gold" or "Silver" or "Treasure" are involved. Wars have been started over less... accounting for thousands of lives destroyed. If you think your rinky-dinky little life is worth more for some reason, get over yourself. It's very easy to go broke for finding a VERY large amount of precious metal. ;o)

[@gruntmax43]

I carried out the deepest, most successful manned (no ROVs) archaeological cargo salvage in history, The Hoi An Hoard. Its amazing what BS they told the viewers on the D Channel in terms of amount of cargo salvaged , etc etc etc. All I got was my day rate & sat pay. I shied away from the camera as I didn't want the Tax Office making attempts to shaft me. 7 years later, I got wiped out by a drunk woman driver & copped a massive right pneumothorax among other injuries. The insurance company was really pissed off cause I exceeded all their capped amounts & attempted to receive a 50% discount on tax they reckoned owed. Shot em down in flames in supreme court although they still shafted me for 5 years loss of earnings. Sooner or later, I'll get the scumbags.

[@airplanemaniacgaming7877]

I would say "Listen here you overgrown lizards in overpriced suits, the SUPREME COURT told you to fuck off, so go crawl back under your rock." in much more flowerly Legalese bullshit, of course.

[@frogmanant]

60 years ago my dad told me -Possession is nine tenths of the law. Secure their treasure & let the lawyers fight it out.

[@kyleanuar9090]

Not if you're a married man, you own nothing even your childhood teddy bear as many men simply went home and barred from entering and become homeless and cash or cardless in one swoop by the divorce judges.

[@itsacorporatething]

Well, that seems that’s exactly what they did, they secured the treasure then their lawyers lost and they had to give up the treasure.

[@vb6548]

It’s logical countrires still have the complete rights to their ships, even after hundreds of years. Eventually we’ll probably have the technology to easily find and salvage most of the wrecks.

[@avgjoe5969]

So if the descendant of the Neanderthal Ug of tribe Izzu claims rights to South Dakota... cool and fair... after the 93 other tribes that "claimed" ownership in the interim. There needs to be a time limit or it might become a feeding frenzy for lawyers and treasure hunters that destroy the artifacts for metal value as certain countries have a reputation of laying claim and taking all the proceeds.

[@fungalcoffee]

I can tell you if I was anywhere near that operation I'd have a gold coin of two

[@waterlinestories]

Did you say a bucket or two?

[@Snarf_Le_Wombat]

Another quality video 😊

[@waterlinestories]

Thanks

[@Ob1sdarkside]

Top notch piracy! Peru is the country that was hard done by. As for the lads, they're in it for the money

[@RobertoGarcia-hf6bs]

Peru was part of Spain at the time. They emancipated later. When you leave your parents' house you don't get to take away their possessions.

[@Ob1sdarkside]

​@RobertoGarcia-hf6bs and how did Peru become "part" of Spain?

[@RobertoGarcia-hf6bs]

@@Ob1sdarkside there was an alliance between the Spanish and the indigenous tribes who were being subjugated by the Incas. This is how Pizarro conquered the Inca empire. Cortes did the same with the Aztecs. Parts of the Incan nobility were maintained in their positions of privilege, just changing allegiance towards a new king and a new god but being part of the ruling elite in the new power structure. Why change allegiance to a new king? The troops sent by this new king had horses, more powerful weapons and tactics. Why change religion? For the same reason that christianity spread across Europe: it was much more humane than the religions they had and people were easily sold on it. Peru did not exist as a state before the Spanish conquest. The Peruvians of today are the heirs to the new culture that was created by mixing the Spanish and indigenous contributions, genetically and culturally. The way Peru became part of Spain is several light years more civilized than the way North America became part of England and then the US. The indigenous peoples were recognised as members of the Spanish crown, with the obligations of being treated humanely, by decree of queen Isabella, going back to the late 1400s, right after the discoveries of Columbus. Like Rome made Spaniards members of their empire, so did Spain with the people of the Americas. By contrast, in North America, 99% of the indigenous peoples were exterminated and the rest put in reserves. And if anyone is to blame for anything that happened in Peru between then and today, it is not the Spaniards of today, but the ancestors of the PEruvians of today. Having said that, most of the gold and silver of Peru stayed in Peru. It was used to build cathedrals and churches, towns, hospitals, universities (take a look at the old part of their cities, they are still there). Only a fifth was sent back to Spain (this was written in the law, and it had a name, the Quinto Real). The Spanish Americas were always richer, more stable and peaceful than Iberian Spain as they benefited from the imperial trade exchanges that reached as far as the Philipines without having to fight the European wars. It was after the independence that all the current troubles started. After their liberators, all members of the masonry and working for England, decomposed the empire in several small powerless republics. It was these republics that did the damage to the indigenous peoples in the 19th and 20th centuries. But they use hatred of Spain as a way to legitimise their own claim to power.

[@Ob1sdarkside]

@RobertoGarcia-hf6bs Yeah, you see this happened in Ireland. The point is, Spain didn't belong in Peru and they took wealth from South America. It's called colonisation

[@RobertoGarcia-hf6bs]

@@Ob1sdarkside well, did Rome belong in Spain? Honestly, I am not sure I really understand the meaning of that question. What I would say is that the Roman empire fell but Rome remains in Spain, through the language, culture, laws, institutions, … Spaniards do not see the Romans as thieves and we do not consider ourselves as thieves with regards to the gold of the Americas… As for the term colonisation: in the sense that it is widely used nowadays, it tends to describe the Anglo Saxon colonisation, which is not in the Roman tradition of conquering and building, but in the tradition of mere pillaging and exploiting, with racial extermination rather than admixture. Sorry, there is a difference between what the English did and what the Spanish crown did. While it was not all perfect, the result is so much more positive. And again, whatever was done in Peru, was done by the grand grand parents of those who now accuse us Spaniards of being criminals and thieves. My ancestors did not move from Europe.

[@jigold22571]

Tragic beyond all circumstances..the price for black magic.When those contaminated relics are karmically returned to the thieves; expect the unexpected..history only repeats itself..

[@SkeelesFortySeven3277]

They tried to pull what I call the "go on take the money and run".

[@CranialExtractor]

Oh I bet they're mining for minerals near where shipwrecks are claimed to be. Co-incidently ya know? I also bet they kept a few of those coins lol probably melted a bucket down and made some gold bars.

[@waterlinestories]

I would have. 😇

[@mattgosling2657]

Lol yeah mate it wouldn't be surprising would it.

[@michaeldonnelly2977]

If I found that treasure I would refer Spain to the international maritime law of FINDERS VS. KEEPERS.

[@LordYngling]

The US Gov would have sided with the Spanish, and after identity was made of the wreck, refusal to pay would have resulted in your company being fined the alleged value of the the treasure or risk arrest and forceful seizure of the value. The US & Spain have an extradition treaty as well.

[@airplanemaniacgaming7877]

@@LordYngling That's where I refer to the law of "Don't fucking blab about finding it, and melt that shit down to sell. Fuck you, thieves."

[@1978garfield]

They should have kept their mouths shut and stayed off social media. A little work with a propane torch (OK a lot of work with many propane torches) could have turned that in to ingots, nuggets or whatever. Hell you could have made shot from it and sold the world's most expensive shot gun shells. If you are going to blab about it, and it is owned by a country, cut them in on it ahead of time.

[@11000038]

The reputational damage to Spain! They stole the gold twice.

[@AlexSmith-q9m]

Treasure is a pirates' game.

[@waterlinestories]

I think you're right

[@richardmorley324]

Greed Huh..... never ends does it

[@Iaintwoke]

They're probably "mining" treasure right now 🤔

[@jasonwright808]

That time Odyssey became pirates 😂

[@toxified3937]

Greed is something that affects all aspects of this world.

[@h5mind373]

This happens because investors demand a public company must increase profits ad infinitum- an impossibility- which leads to exactly these sorts of desperate and illegal measures.

[@avgjoe5969]

Because investors want return on their money? Why be an investor at all of you don't want a return? Do you understand how soialism and capitalism work? Check Wikipedia. Start with this: Getting nothing for something only works in the deluded minds of socialism.

[@The_ZeroLine]

No, in this case it had _nothing_ to do with the greed of the salvage company. It was simply bad faith greed on the part of the Spanish government, which is STILL little better than the Franco government.

[@shawnelleluttrell4907]

If its on the ocean floor, it belongs to whoever finds it.

[@marknewman2187]

Good video , shame about click bait title though

[@jekanyika]

Tbf the treasure was stolen from Peru in the first place. Britain has as much of a claim as Spain.

[@knarftrakiul3881]

If I find it I'm keeping it not saying a word lol

[@MichaelPhillips-jw4bj]

Especially if I put millions down and years into it. Only to have all these governments who never cared and I never entered the country… I’d rather drop it back into the ocean or give it to Mexico who they stole from. Like if you wanna play stolen property game I’m ready for bankruptcy and giving laundering it by giving all away coin by coin

[@DrGonzoChronic]

He who plunders first maintains all future rights, duh.

[@ivanamrki]

So what happend with HMS Sussex wreck?

[@totalutternutter]

Mining undersea minerals would entail locating and extracting precious metal deposits from the sea bed, sounds a lot like treasure hunting but without the complications of a previous owners legacy saying it's theirs.

[@waterlinestories]

Yep. I did see they've already been involved in litigation over something. I haven't read up on it just yet.

[@jfh667]

UK : We sank it and killed everyone onboard, its ours The courts : Good point, good point ... Spain : We stole it from natives, its ours The courts : Good point, good point ... Peru : It ours, they stole it from us The courts : LOL !!!! Worst argument ever.

[@chrisframpton7681]

As a historian, these treasure hunting companies make me sick

[@kevinflatt3884]

Think about this. The Spaniards killed and enslaved for this. The loot belongs to the people they fn stolen it from.

[@Trikipum]

nice black legend dude... funny.. because the spanish empire was the most inclusive empire of the period, that is why you have so many native people and all kinds of mixes all over south america, meanwhile in USA they are in human zoos called "reserves".. do you train for this?.

[@sweaspurdoddd5466]

Boo fucking hoo

[@urishima]

Enough red tape to sink an entire flotilla.

[@joesmith1142]

Treasure hunters with an archeological degree.

[@kennylewis6702]

Great content!

[@waterlinestories]

Thanks

[@muffinman5958]

Personally i think it should have been given to the British, since they plundered it and started a war over it, might as well shove it in the british museum.

[@davidpawson7393]

Cool, so if I find a shipwreck with nothing of value from X, Y or Z country they'll come clean it up.

[@AdmiralJT]

The real treasure is the friends we made along the way.... or something

[@helloMRdj1]

Yeah, people coming to your shore and sovereign waters to take valuable heritage for then to sell the coins as necklaces is the way to go. As a Spaniard that went to Key West, FL some tears came to my eyes when people were buying necklaces from the Nuestra Señora de Atocha for 25 dollars and the "visionary" that found it was selling a book on getting rich fast. Eiter Spain or the Latin American country where the gold was take from should put the treasure in a museum, not in some billionaires garage.

[@avgjoe5969]

Because politicians aren't theives and they won't use ownership of the treasure to peddle influence to the highest bidder... the Obama admin tried to sell the owners out to hand deliver someone else's treasure to Spain if their Literal friend could get some painting in return. Remind me Who has destroyed the economies of their people over and over again... Socialists? (Soviet Union, Venezuela, Cuba, Franco's Spain, Nazi Germany). Which "billionaires" were involved here or in any major treasure hunting find? "Valuable heritage?" The site is at the bottom of the sea... there will be no tours. The intent Was to sell it to museums and collectors and give the country a cut. But certain countries have a reputation of just taking it all. What new wonders could be uncovered by a bunch of gold coins in the dark of the ocean in international waters... Spain going to sell tickets? What value if all salvage companies just take the gold and melt it down because they Know some politician will steal the treasure and sell it for influence.

[@The_ZeroLine]

Nothing real from that ship is being sold for $25. 🤦‍♂️

[@SonicPhonic]

canta y no llores

[@ligmasack9038]

Get Bent, Whinger, you Leaders should have done more to recover the Wreck OVER 150 YEARS AGO!

[@airplanemaniacgaming7877]

Tell that to the pendejos in office in Spain who threw their shitfit while wanting their cake and eating it too.

[@kaiapparent2653]

ok THIS is fascinating

[@ScarlettStunningSpace]

They were always treasure hunters and they used the Elon Musk method of hyping something up to raise the stock, it turns out to be vaporware/unfounded, so it was just a pump and dump scheme. I don't know if it was worth it

[@thurin84]

whered spain get the treasure? and after the spanish civil war and a new regime came to power is this legally even the same spain that um "garnered" the treasure?

[@chasecormick9122]

I think it would be totally moral of them if they gave Spain 1% and hid the rest. I hope they kept most of it.

[@pearltothejam]

Right? I am sure the Spanish Empire acquired all that gold and silver entirely morally

[@DB.scale.models]

They were wrong it was not there's, greed again, it Temps man. Should have followed the charter.

[@waterlinestories]

That's what it's there for. Thanks for watching

[@sawyerdave1]

I’m sure they’ll give 😉 everything back 😂

[@MysticMetaKnight]

I definitely wouldn't be trusting that company with transparency after that debacle, seeing the effort they went though to hide their misbegotten haul (not to say it wasn't Spain's misbegotten haul either); shows they're not above obscuring the facts to achieve their own means. This feels like it was just a test to see how easy it is for them to skirt around the logistics/rules or something.

[@johnmoore8599]

Spain was not being cooperative. They probably got pressured by an investment bank and their own lawyers gave them bad advice. Then, they gambled as you say. It was likely a combination of things.

[@scottessery100]

13:02 bet they were fed up and under 360 deg pressure

[@waterlinestories]

Yep. I mean inside waiting six years And having the distinct feeling another country will put a spanner in the works.

[@bradsanders407]

I'd say they kept enough to pay that million dollar fine.

[@traumgeist]

Sounds like a pyramid scheme.

[@waterlinestories]

Might as well be

[@evanroberts2771]

Good on him.

[@ellythadon]

Fascinating

[@Tgspartnership]

Rich people with expensive toys