Waterproofs DONT Work?..Gore-Tex, Paramo, eVent ALL Fail

[@PaulMessner]

Check out the full Buffalo. Waterproof test here kzbin.info/www/bejne/iH3XnJ96abGGjpIsi=CZPR-akh4XV2HoBW

[@etaabyarn]

@@PaulMessner but, do you believe it? And if so, would you test it yourself?

[@adif7542]

Buffalo kit is great, I bought my first Buffalo Mountain Shirt 30 years ago. I still have and use it, once I had trimmed the pile from the zip areas it was the best mid-layer to wear under a combat jacket, especially in harbour areas, OP hides and when static. But for me it was way too uncomfortable to wear when active, I just find them too hot, even in the Norwegian winter. However, a Buffalo Mountain Shirt, Trousers and maybe with the addition of the Parka and the duel sleeping bag system you can survive anywhere. The Buffalo system works as well today as it ever did, but I would suggest their are better solutions today that couple with changing conditions far better than Buffalo. I mainly carry my Buffalo for emergency use these days.

[@adambroadhead]

Was out in my 15 year old Buffalo Mountain Jacket in the rain today. It gets wet but wicks away fast and I'm yet to be wet through to the inside. Good grief it's warm too. Maybe not the most stylish but it does the job very well. Plus it's made in Sheffield 😁💪 I've a Paramo smock that is probably as old but whatever goes in that front pocket will be very damp when removed. The biggest pain is the shower of water you get when you take it off, which never gets a good reception down the pub. I do love this technology that isn't all gore-tex and comes at the problem from a different angle, however having said that I've currently got an Alpkit Fortitude which is great for comfort and seems to be keeping all the rain off so far and works well with layering options. Not gore-tex but similar DWR layer approach.

[@EllieRaarrrr]

What camera do you use in the rain?

[@PaulMessner]

@@EllieRaarrrr I filmed this with the DJI action camera

[@kevincorby435]

I find if it's pouring with rain, that a silk smoking jacket is the way to go. I put it on, grab a cupper, and watch KZbin .

[@scotbotvideos]

Is that you, Alastair Sim?

[@MyScottyboy1]

However, boxer shorts or Calvins as an undergarment must be used at all times (in case of an unexpected Amazon delivery).

[@matt6477]

Legend ❤

[@ismellfearonu]

A cravat will aid in keeping the chill off the neck

[@thomasmusso1147]

😂

[@jameslowther9792]

Hi Paul, I was a postman for 37 yrs and for the last 10 of them I used a Paramo Alta 2 jacket and to be honest I found it to be the best jacket I ever used. I could be out in continuous rain and windy conditions for over six hours at a time and it never let me down. the key to keeping it in waterproof condition is to keep it clean with nikwax. I know it seems expensive to recondition these jackets but it's better than getting soaked and being uncomfortable and cold all day

[@crazypayz9362]

Hi, just wondering what was the work issued jacket like was any good

[@jameslowther9792]

@@crazypayz9362 When I first started as a postie in 86 the quality of the Royal Mail uniform and wet gear was really good but leading up to privatisation in 2014, obviously to save money they bought cheaper products that didn't do the job they was supposed to. That's when I decided to buy and supply my own. Paramo was my go to jackets and I have stuck with them ever since. I currently have the top of the range Halcon jacket and I have recently purchased another Alta 2 jacket.

[@richardbrookman6415]

100%. Wife and I have a decent goretex jacket each (Berghaus, 25+ years old) and a couple of cheapie Karrimor/Gelert jackets for dog walking. I clean all of them every six months with Nikwax Techwash and then reproof with TX Direct. All done in the washing machine. This seems to keep them beading nicely and dry inside until next time. To be fair, we’re older now and unlikely to set off for a day’s hike in the lashing rain, but for all normal purposes they are waterproof. Another thing not mentioned in the video is that keeping the fabric clean is important. If dirt builds up in the pores, the moisture can’t wick out and you get wet from inside. Regular cleaning helps. When the Berghaus fails me (however long that takes) I will have a serious look at the Paramo.

[@JOC-l3k]

Yes 100%! Cleaning is the key. I forgot to say that in my long screed, but Paul did mention anyway.

[@tonybarton3746]

Same as you got the Alta 2 never let me down , use Autumn -Winter , cleaned every year with tech wash and reproofed with Nikwax . The jackets never let me down on wonderful Dartmoor and those little hills in Scotland. I’m also a motorcyclist and the answer to keep it waterproof is the same especially in a downpour at 70 mph 😊👍👍 ps I’ve a Jupik fylraven jacket for deep winter , clean and re-wax every year no problems after five years , and believe a lot of people just don’t keep the waterproofing up to date, ps x marine of 22 years service and been in some very wet places 😊😊👍👍😂 look after your kit and it will look after you

[@simontyrrell8866]

You guys are going to laugh at this but I spent many years doing land reclamation in south west Wales, working outside in all weathers, mostly very wet. Eventually I discovered that multiple wicking layers topped by a Harris Tweed jacket was the best combination, yes you got wet, but you stayed warm. A waxed cotton gillet was used under extreme conditions. They know a bit about weather in the Outer Hebrides!

[@angussoutter7824]

Good old sheep’s wool as a kid when packing the fleeces into bags you’d come out covered in sheep oil and never got wet down side it stinks 😂😂😂

[@porkyparry1]

When they found Mallory on everest he was wearing a tweed jacket a many thin layers, oh and his pipe

[@timbrooking]

Mallory not Hil lary. ​@@porkyparry1

[@LairdDavidson]

Harris Tweed might be good. The only thing I've got in Harris Tweed is a cap. I'll wear it next time it's chucking it down and see how well it does. If its a success I'll be looking to get a jacket too.

[@feel.the.need.]

Ive bought thousands of pounds worth of waterproof clothing over the years, and i still recall a Regatta jacket and trousers i bought years ago which were cheap as you like and did a better job than a lot of the expensive shite i buy now.

[@waynelewis5656]

Probably made of non breathable plastic fabric, eg nylon. It's like wearing a tarpauline, very water resistant but not at all breathable like modern expensive fabrics. Likewise, a 10p Tesco carrier bag is more waterproof than a £1000 hiking coat.

[@Cheefie]

Yeah same. Regatta Pack-it trousers are great and pretty good breathability too. Had one pair last 8 years of rainy walks before they finally failed. The jackets are a bit of a sweat fest though.

[@rhysevans7903]

My regatta work high viz coat is top notch

[@ryancapewell6504]

​@@rhysevans7903I took a warm piss

[@timh847]

yeh, they were reliable. just wear them for heavy rain and take off when it slows down to light rain. You might get wet inside, but you do anyway with the expensive ones

[@markmaloney5146]

I’ve tried loads I’ve been out in the elements for 50 years, I use double ventile. Some hate it, and yes, can get a little damp, and the fabric goes stiff, but I stick with it. You don’t sweat in ventile

[@verykeen2please]

used Paramo and Buffalo for Mountain rescue days. both performed better than other systems, it does feel like they are wetting out, but just wicking away the moisture However, they do require regular washing /reproofing

[@dagobaphotography924]

On long distance hikes I always use my military poncho. It’s quick to put on and off and you don’t sweat because it’s open at the bottom. I’ve had lots of different jacket brands and types too. Some £500 down to 2nd hand but all fail. The poncho is always in my bag

[@stonemarten1400]

Yes, I walk long distance footpaths and have used lots of different waterproof jackets and they all get wet, some sooner than others. I now wear a poncho in the warm summer rain and then over my Fjallraven g1000 smock in the winter, only if there’s heavy rain. If it’s not too windy, I sometimes use a windproof umbrella. It’s always a compromise.

[@Moth86]

I tend to go with a poncho with a soft shell underneath and quick dry trousers I hate waterproof trousers it works for me even if ponchos make you look silly 😅

[@andyb3712]

100%

[@andrewp5321]

If i saw a moth wearing a poncho and quick dry trousers I'd be impressed tbh

[@ferruccio4531]

I'm a cyclist, I use a poncho with breathable rain pants and waterproof overshoes for motorcyclists, I stay completely dry for hours but I look so uncool.

[@andrewp5321]

@@ferruccio4531 I hope you stay moisturized

[@johncummins3860]

At least you're giving other wet walkers a laugh !

[@richardburton5485]

I’m liking the Peter storm gear and if I’ve had to reproof anything I’ve found concentrating on the hood / shoulder areas has had the best results My current proofs are over 3 years old and still going strong

[@andrewhay8033]

As joiner working for 8hrs in the rain, potentially 5 days a week sometimes. The best solution ive found for me is layering up with breathable layers then wearing a thin but rubber type jacket, Like sea fishermen wear. 100 percent waterproof. I find depending on time of year if i just take off layers to find a comfortable working temperature then im ok. I dont sweat too much but find id rather sometimes be a little stuffy inside than be soaking wet. I also own fishing waders waders which are meant to ne breathable. I can stand in a river for hours, chest height not getting wet. I know they are a little rigid but i wonder how this technology is not used for a waterproof jacket. Perhaps it is

[@mikeb5664]

I hate hiking in rain gear, so I started using an umbrella.

[@tubecated_development]

How does it fare in wind and rain? And doesn’t it have to be a huge umbrella to clear the drips?

[@theshortgolfer8687]

@@tubecated_development I also use an umbrella - actually rainpants and umbrella. So my legs stay dry but I can still ventilate the upperbody. Yes wind is a bother, when very windy I hold the structural poles where they meet the umbrella rather than the handle - as I said a bother but I stay dry and do not sweat.

[@tim_biller]

Can I just say what a great job you did on the audio for this, Paul. I gave up on Gore-Tex years ago - Buffalo all the way!

[@bluezorro999]

Had a couple of Paramo jackets - absolutely awful in heavy rain. Luckily got them free through work, I’d be gutted if I’d purchased them with my own money. Ex Army on eBay is the best I’ve ever used - plus easily the cheapest.

[@Tuomimaki]

Up here in Finland the late autumn temperatures are usually getting close to zero (Celsius). I've had multiple Gore-tex jackets over the years and they just don't work well because of the condensation from inside. My theory is that when the temperature difference between outside and inside of the jacket is too big, the vapors can't get out. After I got a Snugpak rain poncho I've stayed dry and happy and saved also a lot of money 🙂

[@twiglet2214]

Have you tried turning the jackets inside out which would reverse the temperature differential ?

[@FontaineDerby]

I wholly agree. Goretex is OK until one starts sweating then it can't cope. The most waterproof things I have are a German Army poncho and a US Army Woodland Camo poncho.

[@Ian-cp3fj]

Tried loads of different things but still go back to my poncho....

[@philparkinson462]

Definitely. I use a snugpak but on a cold day add the liner.

[@ferruccio4531]

the same happened to me.

[@greatwhite1958]

The great thing about paramo in my opinion is that you can reproof when it needs washing using Nikwax which is environmentally friendly as well. Any jacket has to re-proofed from time to time and doing the reproofing in the washing machine (paramo) is nice and easy in my opinion. I replaced my goretex, e-vent etc with paramo and I’m glad I did. It works for me.

[@Mark-pk1fm]

Thank goodness we’re waterproof and breathable!

[@jonison6847]

If it's really very gnarly, I'm wearing heavy weight military gore-tex with buffalo shirt underneath. That keeps me dry enough whatever the weather. But you look like a solider! Buffalo is great on its own, but you've got to keep moving to keep warm (and pack a spare dry clothes for the evening / sleeping, if you're rough camping). Nothing like experience for finding what works for you. Always pack for the conditions and your own physiology and fitness. Good luck and happy hiking!

[@pennypottinger9940]

This has been really helpful - thank you. Plain speaking to understand waterproof clothing. Ìts so easy to make expensive mistakes.

[@johnhogg9756]

It’s why I have settled on Keela SDP (Munro etc) they work and don’t let me down unlike some other much more expensive jackets. Once it’s on I don’t even notice the weight compared to a jacket that was supposed to be half the weight.

[@johnmca5643]

An umbrella is the only waterproof item that keeps me dry. I just finished the West Highland Way. Kept me completely dry. Others on the trail were miserable.

[@ferruccio4531]

if the trail allows its use, nothing beats an umbrella.

[@infoillness4222]

Indeed ...you can even get a walking kilt which I understand also helps...especially in Scotland...

[@alangauld6079]

Umbrellas are great if there's no wind and the path is wide enough to use it. Not so good on narrow tracks up rock faces or when the wind blows the rain sideways! I carry a fold up umbrella in my backpack on long low-level trips because it's the ultimate in breathability.

[@swanseamale47]

The problem with Goretex is heavy rain block's the pores,and it can't breathe. After 70 years, the best I've found was the old heavyweight PVC. Ok, it didn't breathe, but the rain couldn't get through it.

[@gospelman7222]

I found exactly the same riding a motorcycle long distances in heavy rain. Heavyweight PVC was the only material that kept me dry. I rode motorcycles for 56 years before age forced me to stop

[@TheAlexshade]

I THINK a lot of people get confused with water coming into their jacket vs their own sweat build up. better layers and understanding the layer system stops you from feeling wet

[@Petestleger]

I think the marketing of these products has done us a huge disservice. They have led people to believe the laws of physics have been beaten. Sadly, it just ain't true. To my mind, if you're out for a short period of time, as long as you're not getting chilled, does a bit of wet even matter? For longer trips, either take shelter from the worst, or be prepared with a change of clothes and the ability to make a hot drink and/or food. TBH, the latter is a good idea anyway. An interesting subject, and I suspect it won't go away anytime soon! All the best, Pete.

[@dmythica]

Defiantly worth using a waterproof jacket + trousers. Even if not 100% waterproof, you will significantly dryer than if waterproofs are not used. I work outside, all day, every day.

[@adrianlw2750]

If it’s not windy, and you don’t need both your hands, a smallish umbrella (I use a “National Trust” Green compact) is great for keeping head and shoulders happy. Some may scorn… but if I’m drier than them, who cares? My first Goretex long jacket and overtrousers was bought in mid ‘80’s (Sprayway brand). I still have these and still use them - but no longer for hiking - great for wet days and pressure-washing tasks around the garden.

[@johnisherwood4030]

Umbrellas are a no brainer if its not windy. The old saying goes 'any XXXX can be uncomfortable'

[@johnmca5643]

An umbrella is always in my pack. Best rain gear ever.

[@npwn6569]

Breathability is overrated in my opinion. You're much better off with a non breathable jacket that is loose fitting and has venting options (pit zips etc)

[@guy35451]

Relative air saturation levels are more important than breathability. Doesn't make any difference how breathable a fabric if the outside air saturation is greater or equal to the inside of the fabric. It's like trying to find a parking space in a car park that's full

[@neonsamurai1348]

Breathability does help if it is not heavy rain and the humidex is not 100%, having a good DWR coating is also crucial as no jacket can "breath" once the outer fabric wets out. I would still go with a loose fitting jacket that has vents as well. Generally though I tend to use a large poncho with snaps and some rain pants (frogg toggs or whatever).

[@Lands_Solo]

I completely disagree, once gore-tex wets out you're going to get cold, paramo may wet out but it dries out far quicker and works well with a poncho over the top, you don't need to get cold and wet. You can leave a wet paramo jacket in your tent overnight and put it on in the morning and it's warm, dry inside and comfortable in my experience. I'll take paramo over the crisp packet experience all day long.

[@truepaulesko]

I've hiked with a friend trying oaramo jackets several times. I was wearing a paramo enduro, he was wearing a Patagonia windbreaker and a polartec alpha hoodie. Both were wearing a grid baselayer. The result was that there's little to no difference between the two systems. At the end of the day paramo jackets are just a windbreaker and a fleece, the directional stuff is ok, but water gets through it anyway, so I assume it's just marketing stuff. I agree that waterproof jackets are overrated, but so is paramo, if you are ok with getting wet, just buy your favourite windbreaker or softshell and a fleece that works well when wet. And the most important factor to be warm when wet? That grid base layer.

[@matthewwakeham2206]

Not really, I've tried non breathable coats and as soon as you're warm the inside starts running with water. I'm talking the really cheap farmer type coats. Great if it's to cold to sweat but rubbish otherwise.

[@beauboydave]

I once washed a woollen jacket with Nick wax DWR, only because it’s very mild, detergent wise. And I tell you what, it’s ended up being the best waterproof jacket I’ve ever had, but it’s boiling hot 😂 loving the Vids by the way🥂👍

[@andyc3088]

Was in a monsoon up at Wick, the top of Scotland. With with a single layer Gore-Tex Berghaus jacket and Rab Men’s Downpour Eco Waterproof Pants. Only Rab pants failed and I had wet trousers and wet legs. I still have my British Army Gore-Tex jacket still going strong after 40 years of wear

[@richardcook2970]

My £30 poncho from Decathlon has never failed. Bought it 20 years ago.

[@SietzeFliegen]

Hi Paul. Nice video! I did an 8 day backpacking hike in Norway this summer. We had almost constant rain until the last 3 days. Clothes were all soaked, boots soaked because the rivers were so high we could not get across without getting knee keep. Luckily I had a pack cover and a drybag for the sleeping bag/pad and some dry clothes. 400 euro raincoat and pants did not help much after 2 days!

[@garyhopper882]

X military poncho totally waterproof and bullet proof

[@philotown]

100%

[@scotbotvideos]

Well, maybe not bullet proof. Not in the way that you mean anyway.

[@andyb3712]

but not lightweight .. ok to walk the dog, imo.

[@composedlight6850]

are you sure its bullet proof -- like to see you test that !

[@timsimmons5953]

I have one totally waterproof but you get wet from your own sweat and cold if you do not have more to put on after..

[@Bob-67]

Anyone else constantly getting ads for the Baerskin waterproof jacket at the moment?

[@swanseamale47]

Yep, and I'll never ever buy anything advertised on KZbin

[@happycycleboy6807]

Neither would I....😂

[@andydowden8117]

Yep

[@ISREALHASGOD]

Inceasent

[@infoillness4222]

Errrr yes I even went to an Army Recruitment Day afterwards to complete the militaristic vibe...

[@verykeen2please]

I thought the only waterproof was the pub, but even that rained in recently

[@littlegrandadoutdoors]

Am glad I watched this all the way through before commenting!. My british military waterproofs are the best of all my waterproofs, bulky and heavy, but guarantee dryness for multiple days in torrential rain. I have a set of waterproofs from a company called frogtogg ( somthing like that ) , they have never let me down, only two problems with them , 1 can't sinch the hood up completely so water can get in there: 2 it's like paper, tissue thin and just as delicate, so the terrain dictates when to use them. My berghaus jacket is good ( lost the trousers before I wore them ). My fjallraven kit is good , apart from the cap. Have a few other jackets by other brands but never gave them a true testing yet... Take care out there.

[@RalfPinkaire-f7w]

Mentioning brands and not models is useless.

[@Bam123412]

Great video. Ive come to this conclusion myself after various jackets. They all let me down in wet hill walking after a while. Ive decided ita not worth paying more than £100 for a jacket and replace it more often. It seems to be a rare case of buying cheaper regularly than buying once that is expensive.

[@davehumpleby3440]

I have a 20 year old eVent jacket made by Endura that is still 100% waterproof. I use it every day cycling for my work commute. It has been worn to death, but all the seam tapes are bomber, and there is no de-lamination of the fabric anywhere. Old school eVent outclasses Goretex or any other waterproof/breathable fabric every time in my experience. The same holds true for my 15 year old Montane eVent mountain jacket. Interestingly, both are heavier weight fabrics than what you see in shops today. I don't know the science behind it, but I believe heavier weight membranes work better at keeping water out than lighter ones. This may explain why your military jacket is still going strong. I also own an Austrian military Goretex jacket which I use for camping/bushcraft. It has never let water in, unlike the lighter Goretex fabrics I've had in other high-end mountain waterproofs. There is a fad for lightweight gear but I'm not a fan. It probably helps with breathability but it is definitely a hindrance when it comes to keeping the elements out. Next time I need to replace a jacket I'll be searching for old-school heavyweight fabric (preferably eVent) or military surplus. It might mean carrying a little extra weight and bulk but I want my waterproofs to be waterproof.

[@Shewie01]

I had a Rab Demand smock in eVent, had some great adventures with it, TGO, CWT etc, lots of wet trips to the Lakes and north of the wall. One monsoon day on ML training on Yewbarrow it totally failed on me, tried everything to restore it but nothing worked, tumble drier, hot iron, Graingers, various Nikwax treatments, I nearly cried the day my pristine looking Demand went in the recycle bin. I heard something weird went on with eVent and some licensing arrangement several years ago, it still crops up in odd places but none of the big brands seem to touch it now

[@ipedros7]

The best I ever been kept dry was at Ben Nevis in constant rain. My feet were drenched, my legs where clinging to my trowsers, which were clinging to the rain pants. My bag was drenched, even though stuff was in a plastic bag (not well sealed). I had a basic Tog 24 3 in 1 jacket with a fleece inside. I then topped it all with a plain inexpensive packable rain jacket I happened to have on me. It seems the combo stopped any water in, however the layers also created a little ventilation from below and separation which kept my torso pretty dry and comfortable. Perhaps not the most ultralight etc but it impressed the idea upon me. I used that same idea a number of times in down pours all with good success. A good barrier outside on top of the breathable water resistant, ensure there are gaps inside for ventilation and a good layer (fleece) between you and the first water proof fabric.

[@dareekie2074]

I run cold and dry so a simple packet jacket works as well as anything. Nothing really stays waterproof for more than 2 hours of rain.

[@paultrussy]

I've been given a DLX jacket which is much more durable than any other I've had (Berghaus / Mountain Equipment) ...and it's not specifically made for the hiking marketplace. I use it in all inclement weather conditions on an old fuelboat narrowboat on the Macclesfield and Peak Forest canals, it small has to withstand handling bags of coal, logs, kindling, gas cylinders etc on the move. I'd say it keeps me 95% dry in the toughest of conditions.

[@magneto263]

Duck Dri. A very small manufacturer based in Ibstock a village in Leicestershire make real waterproof gear. All the local keepers, Beaters, pi kers up use them. Get yourself one of their coats, lined or not and a pair of chaps. I have been beating across fields in sideways rain a remained dry. It doesn't lose its waterproof quality for years and even then it can be re proofed. Made to measure as well 👍

[@danielduesentriebjunior]

I use a very light umbrella made by Japanese supplier MontBell. There's other brands of cause. As long as it does not rain from the side in strong winds it solves the problem of getting wet from the out- or inside. You may even fix some of these umbrellas to your backpack in order to have both hands free.

[@madbrad5596]

I just wear wool bush shirt and a non breathable waterpoof jacket. The wool soaks up any sweat and if it a hot summers day but has few hours of rain, i just get wet and let my cloths dry out later on. Works perfect for me

[@Howling-Mad-Murdock]

I think the key with gore tex and the like is trying not to get too hot. I’ve never had a decent waterproof leak but I’ve ended up damp from sweat lots of times.

[@jamsams]

GoreTex is all about layering up wisely underneath. Only wear enough layers as is needed to keep you comfortable. Too many people wear FAR too many layers and don't remove them when they start feeling hot.

[@toocleanpappas5397]

A plastic poncho is probably the best rain jacket, and an umbrella helps too. I don't like poncho's but I have friends who use them and they love them, and it keeps em dry. Plus they're cheap. A UL umbrella was my surprise enjoyable piece of kit on my hike in Ireland and Scotland. Not great when it was lashin, but when it was just coming straight down it was really pleasant and kept me dry all day. I never used them in the States hiking and in New Zealand it was just too tight conditions for an umbrella.

[@muskett4108]

No one system works in the British variable weather. Thick heavy wool does work, but only as hot and steamy, and most people can't do the weight necessary for wool to actually work well. For me it's heavy duty goretex style for soaking wet, as found with my ex military heavy waterproofs. The design is comprehensive too, just zip up fully and leave zipped up. To bin moisture and excessive steam, then open up fast, give it all a shake out, and then close up fully again. Next choice is a lightweight breathable like eVent. They need fresh DWR coating, and are cold because they are barely windproof, and can get overwhelmed. I'll sometimes wear one under a gaberdine windproof. Wax type can work but always cold. Wool under helps, but then gets the hot and steamy. Last is ventile, for its breathability and windproofness, but gets heavy when soaked and cold when drying. Again needs a wool or fibre pile to stop wetting out and through. To warm up after a wet chilling use a fibre pile against the skin, or a dry wool, even if you put on the wet water proof over the top. Whatever, get that soaking shirt off and away from the skin, even if it means a fast strip. Never try and dry out the wet once chilled, as then the chill will set in deep. Basically be proactive rather than expect any of them to do it all.

[@Stoitism]

I've been using a sleeved poncho thats 100% waterproof and has pit zips for the last month or so. It drops heat out like nobodies business being so loose fitting and it covers my pack too. It also has slots in the front so you can use your pack hipbelt to sinch the front down if the wind gets up a bit. The only drawback is its very flappy in high wind but I bought a quick release belt to tie the whole thing down with in windy conditions and it works great. I wouldnt use it in really warm conditions as it isnt breathable whatsoever but in summer I prefer to use a packable storm-proof umbrella (Senz Mini) and a light jacket anyway. Different times of year and different conditions require different solutions. I also now feel like poncho and cagoule type jackets is an area where some great innovations could be made nowadays.

[@jellysansboi7453]

How come your sleeved poncho didn't have pit zips up until a month ago?

[@effectivemelody]

What model of ponch is that? Sounds good. Is it like the snugpak enhanced patrol poncho,which has sleeves?

[@Stoitism]

@effectivemelody Its similar yeah but has a bit more functionality from what I can tell. I might still try the snugpak one just to see how it compares. I think the snugpak one is shorter which may be more useful in some scenarios. Mine is the Turbat Molfar Pro.

[@PaulSmith-pi4om]

A wax coating homemade works pretty good. I just bought a pair of tenn waterproof shorts which seem to be made of groundsheet with a lining. I bought these in a charity shop for 9 bucks and unfortunately the company is no more.If they get wet the wind blows it away. Genius!

[@adif7542]

Paramo, is good. But as an expedition leader, if working in a wet environment, like we have in the UK I always use PU coated waterproofs. Seal Flex is my favourite brand of PU waterproof because they have some breathability. Seal Flex is an agricultural brand. Helly Henson PU workwear waterproofs are nearly as good but don't have the breathability but are a little more stylish.But I use both brands. Another advantage is PU is that it is light.

[@RegEdmunds]

When I first started to hike I belived the marketing and bought a £220 Paramo Alta 2, only to find that it leaked and has always leaked. I now use it locally when I go to my pub. I would never make such a purchase again, I now use a full zipped poncho, £40 and it WORKS!

[@adif7542]

@@RegEdmunds I like paramo, it is great for activities like cycling for a couple of hours, even running but no I would never wear out day hikes, mountaineering or multi day activities. PU for those actives for me. 80 quid for a light yet 100% windproof and waterproof jacket that does not require DWR to work and consistently works for decades. Technical rain gear, such as goretex and the like is just a very expensive con that only works in a very narrow temperature range.

[@timh847]

yes i agree. Where do you buy PU Nylon these days? I find most shops dont sell them anymore

[@crappymeal]

​@@timh847Peter storm

[@martinknight510]

Flexothane by sioben are the ones 👌👌used them when pressure washing for years theyve unreal

[@jonparr1148]

Agree that every ‘breathable’ layer can let through. I’ve Used a Rab Latok which is eVent from around 2006 as my WP layer. Usually I swear by the Rab VaporRise soft shell for most weather as my jacket, been through 3 in the same time as the Latok ! If actual rain starts to happens for more than 20-30 mins then on goes the Latok and an old pair of Burghaus over trousers, bit like yours ! But continuous hours of rain will surely test any modern clothing.

[@rcullingworth1661]

French army goretex jacket. Very thick but not hugely heavy. 15 years old. Never treated. Still looks new. Never wets out. No idea about the science but it’s bulletproof.

[@affalaffaa]

I might look for the one that isn't bulletproof. Should be a fair bit lighter.

[@davehumpleby3440]

My Austrian military jacket is the same.

[@peterdallyn6440]

Ive got one of those too, off ebay, great for doing the horses in all weather. Has excellent pit vents. Its all about being able to vent.

[@kierandoherty1600]

​@@davehumpleby3440 same as. They're brill

[@marcomcdowell8861]

I have a few US military Gore-Tex jackets. They're called APECS. Issued out to us, but once you've damaged it or gotten it filthy, you have to get your next one out of pocket. Madly expensive, but they're layered and unless you fall into a body of water, pretty much waterproof for years. I don't know if they're NATO spec, but I've seen French ones made the same way. The current issued ones are a shell, not even Gore-Tex. Just rubberized on the inside. Still effective, but I've only had it for 3 years.

[@TacBlades]

I do like a poncho sometimes, totally waterproof, but lots of air underneath so no sweat.

[@juliankerrell7281]

Keela ventile smock has been an outstanding waterproof for me.

[@davehumpleby3440]

I've been researching this. Looks interesting and it may be my next purchase when my current jackets give out. I'd be interested to know why you think it is so good. Cheers.

[@mattwright2964]

​@@davehumpleby3440had a ventile for years, no answer is perfect. Stop looking for perfect and have options in your sack. UK weather is the worst in the world.

[@Lastaii]

Huh, this might explain why my early 90's gortex jacket is still going strong :)

[@Simon_W74]

My old Army Gore Tex waterproofs were still go many years after leaving the Army. The Jacket seems to still work, but the trousers not so much. they have been used more over the the years. They are coming up to 30 years old. I do have other Gore Tex waterproofs that I prefer to wear, and as a Kayaker I have a Gore Tex Pro dry suit, I only went of it for the extra Breathability that it offers over other materials used, as an unfit version of my once very fit self, it tend to leak much more than I did when I was younger. Now trying to work back to being fit but old injuries are say bugger off we like being less active. I am however interested in how your Boots held up on the walk in the video as you have had then a while? As I have moved over to Barefoot shoes, and am looking at getting some myself. I have to be careful these days getting too wet and cold as it plays havoc with my Arthritis.

[@johninman1354]

Just got the keela pinnacle.. wasn't too sure about buying it because I've had all the other big names and keela are a smaller name.. but it seems to be doing the business for me..

[@matthewstones6906]

Glad I read your comment I'm so close to getting the pinnacle jacket read alot of reviews but thought can't be that good for such a cheap price, good to know they are decent ill now purchase one 👍

[@wpherigo1]

Back 20 years ago I had a great water proof jacket from REI I used when my son’s scout troop went on their monthly camps. Guaranteed to rain, every time. At home, I’ve used ponchos very successfully. The military uses ponchos. I’d think that covers everyone else’s needs for sure!

[@InimitaPaul]

If you give your jacket a wash in Nikwax tech wash occasionally your jacket will always be waterproof, I bought my mum a lovely goretex jacket for Christmas a few years ago and just happened to tech wash it before all these recent storms here in the UK and she’s couldn’t speak highly enough of it, she was layered up underneath so stayed warm and dry and the jacket dried in no time.

[@kenaddicott5569]

Yes mate I got an RAF 3/4 heavy gortex coat extremely well made but heavy ish no hood great for cycle touring had 3 weeks of cycle touring in nearly all solid rain and wind and bloody cold up past arctic circle in Norway 🇳🇴 had to sleep in it coat some nights ,climbing up mountain passes and hills covered approximately 800 miles it’s slightly to big so no sweat problems it comes with detachable sleeveless quilt lining as well all extremely well made and has big pockets it helps immensely as the bike carries your kit

[@hannahbazley3626]

My favourite, out of the limited ones I've tried, is a Columbia Outdry jacket. Got mine off ebay and it's been great in some pretty nasty weather. It's got massive pit zips and it's quite a robust jacket. I was out for hours during an ultra, in horizontal rain and wind earlier this year. It was only when it started getting dark that I stopped and added a long sleeved top to the technical t-shirt I was wearing. It works differently to gortex so doesn't need reproofing.

[@tbo2120]

Frogg Toggs. Cheap. Lightweight. Wind proof and actually pretty good! It’s all I wear now

[@stancampbell1270]

Agree. A bit flimsy but for £16 or so can’t complain

[@INSOLESandLACES]

I like paramo but have moved over to Hilltrek which have a number of options. Pump liner with a ventile outer, double ventile both are classed as waterproof and single ventile that's classed as water resistant. Like the fact they are made in Scotland.

[@alangauld6079]

I used to use Ventile back in the 60s and 70s. The biggest issue was that it increased in weight dramatically when it got wet. But it was at least as good as most modern shell jackets.

[@INSOLESandLACES]

@@alangauld6079 yes definitely and they become like cardboard but apart from that I do enjoy using them.

[@Lands_Solo]

Paramo plus a lightweight poncho is the best solution I've found so far, I stay relatively dry and warm, the poncho can also cover my backpack which is also a bonus.

[@ktm-bc1dw]

Just returned my own and wife’s paramo alt 2 under warranty for wetting out. Taken 2 weeks just received them back. Great warranty service

[@LoxleyOutlaw]

I'm entirely in agreement. I've never found one waterproof that I'm happy with. I've moved to Paramo now and am looking forward to testing it when away this weekend.

[@DW-dd4iw]

The best waterproof coat i have is a Ridgeline Monsoon jacket. Although it has never failed me in ridiculous deluges of rain, it gets hot. It's okay for a casual walk, but if you're trekking or walking for hours it needs to be less than 5C. Ideally around zero!

[@bugoutbrad8395]

I have used old, new stock. You know unused. Military Gortex for years. It's to heavy for hiking. But does keep you dry. And like everything. High activity, you will get damp. A poncho will work sometimes. And yes, Military Gortex is different. Cheers Paul 🍻. Thanks for your videos.

[@chrishamilton2527]

yes, also been there and bought just about everything. If its winter I now use a DCF smock with lots of ventilation zips - on each side I have a double zip from wrist to armpit to hip in one continuous zip as well as a front half zip. During the other seasons I use a lightweight waterproof. Regardless of the time of year, I only wear my waterproof if it's actually raining (pretty hard). I wear a long DCF kilt and long gaiters to protect my legs and to reduce the chance of my Barefoot Vivo boots collecting leg run off.

[@hooareya6261]

had my Berghaus 8 years no problems, regulaly machine was it as well.

[@Ken-jp1gr]

I've been using the same jacket as your Paramo even same colour for at least ten years. Love it, its full of oil and ground in muck now from off road cycling. I really need to get get a new one and it will be the same make and model.

[@JakeLDS]

I'm also a sweaty beast! I've been finding more and more that I prefer natural materials. Merino wool base layer etc and then if i get sweaty i stay warm and it's wicked away, plus I don't stink. I've been trying to work out if I should get a Paramo jacket or something natural that I have to reproof with wax. Natural materials often require more work to look after them but I find it's worth it.

[@Dogbury]

That's what we call a quality mountain day!

[@PeterMorley-ks1xg]

Many moons ago I used Buffalo special 6 and belay jkt as a two layer two layer system for autumn to spring , I've now added a ventile smock from Hilltrek with a double layer on shoulders and hood for seriously poor wet weather. Occasionally I still use my keela Munro jkt, which performs well in extended cold wet conditions, over my base layer and or my special 6 smock. I've also found army issue micro fleece type smocks very useful alternative to Buffalo systems teclite range.

[@garethblake7374]

The really important thing is staying warm enough. I find it helps to have long sleeves beneath the jacket. The cuffs always get wet. When I cycle tour I wear one jacket on the bike and swap it for a different one once my tent is up, along with everything else I was wearing. Nothing lasts when it is hammering down all day for two consecutive days, which I've had to cope with. Always been cosy in my tent though.

[@JakeLDS]

I've got one of those British Army Gore Tex jackets. I used to lay in muddles with it on and still stay dry. They're not breathable though, I used to put it on in big downpours and try and stay put. If you try and do much with it on you just get drenched in sweat.

[@michaelharrison9445]

Arcteryx Beta jacket I’ve had for many years has kept the water out. Just finished the Pennine Way and had some awful conditions and it kept me dry from the rain. I did get condensation but not surprised as I had a huge rucksack and went up lots of steep ascents.

[@mattwright2964]

I've been hiking on the hills for 40 years. Tried it all - wax cotton, ventile, goretex, event, pertex, paramo etc etc. None are the perfect answer, esp in UK weather. What I do now is I have a lightweight windproof paramo over a light layer. This reduces wind chill, is breathable and has some showerproof ability (so ok for typical mixed UK conditions). In addition to my warm layers ready in the rucksack I have a lightweight Alpkit 'waterproof' smock. If it turns nasty I put that on over the paramo. This works brilliantly. Now if I'm out in cold weather and it turns nasty wet as well I have a buffalo style smock in my rucksack and put the Alpkit over that. Overall this approach withstands most things very well. In 24hr rain you will still get some bits wet, that is just the way but you need stuff that if it does get wet it doesn't matter too much eg will keep you warm and/or dry out.

[@jonison6847]

This chimes with my experience - "doubling up" (military gore-tex + buffalo for me) works very well. And nice bit of flexibility. It takes about 40 years to figure out what works :) Happy hiking!

[@phil.clarke]

Awesome conditions to go walking in the fells in - a great test of resilience, hill skills, and kit selection. I love my Páramo and now wear that almost exclusively in awesome conditions. Oh, my army gore tex jacket did wet out when spending days in Sennybridge!

[@davidcann6021]

Same as a lot of other comments, can't beat a poncho, I've got an OMM windproof jacket that weights 54g and a ponch around 200g. It's like walking in a tent.

[@scotbotvideos]

Paul's got a Snugpak poncho that he has used in his videos previously. In fact, he even made the same tent joke that you've just made.

[@aafgahfah]

I have an old arcteryx theta AR and it has worked extremely well for well over a decade. I do not use it often though.

[@petemulhearn7787]

In persistent rain I prefer a Poncho. Mine is a Forclaz 75L It keeps the rain off me and my camera backpack even after years of use.

[@theom7476]

Paramo is my favorite when its cold and wet. i've got an Alta 3 and a pair of velez trousers that haven't let me down. When it's less cold I have a Rab Kinetic alpine jacket that has kept me dry, even though its halfway between a softshell and a waterproof shell. It's very breathable and its stretchy so it's very comfortable and i haven't got sweaty inside it when i've been out. Also Paramo and Rab both have good repair services so they can last a very long time

[@KD__.]

Paul you should try to get a company that still makes ventile fabric jackets to give you one to try. It was invented in England for the military and is very expensive but apparently really waterproof. I'd love to see that put to test. Not many places make it now as it's expensive to produce. Great video 👌🏻

[@jimtitt3571]

Only one company makes the fabric, it isn't waterproof and still relies on a DWR coating. Heavy and even heavier when it gets wet and takes days to dry out which is whole extra problem, I am also a motorcyclist and my 3 layer Goretex suit is definately waterproof for eight hours at 80mph in pouring rain, it's advantage being a thick layer of Cordura and ballistic nylon on the outside which stops the impact pressure of the raindrops. Unless you overnight in heated accomodation this is disastrous for the weight so a PU coated riding overall is the standard solution. We had Ventile in our youth, durable but not waterproof!

[@davehumpleby3440]

Yep. I'm interested in the Keela Ventile Smock for this very reason.

[@mattwright2964]

​@@jimtitt3571correct, had ventile, will still get wet and when it does a bugger to dry out. As many are saying, there is no one perfect answer. I have options in my rucksack.

[@INSOLESandLACES]

Hilltrek uses ventile, used their stuff for quite some time.

[@KD__.]

It was an English invention designed for pilots immersion suits so I'm guessing it is waterproof if used correctly. It's ment to be double layered. If only we kept our tech and marketed it correctly rather than losing it to foreign companies, we might all be using it. ​@@jimtitt3571

[@TheCarmacon]

My method: allow to get wet, but get quickly drying clothes. I carry either a hiking umbrella or a poncho + rain skirt. If anything underneath gets wet: so be it, it dries quickly. Ponchos and umbrellas have a way longer lifetime than any of those fancy jackets.

[@heighRick]

Paul, I lost my Quito jacket probably 10yrs ago, I was completely gutted, still gutted today ...I've just got no idea how it disappeared. Thanks for the video, helps a lot!

[@LaziUK]

You can't beat the Berghaus workhorse waterproof trousers...got the Deluge and Paclite and never ever had wet trousers/legs in downpours. On the cheaper side too! Really interesting vid Paul

[@hixyhicks]

I have a french army goretex jacket which i cycle in,its heavy as ,but never once got me wet .50 quid brand new of ebay .

[@davehumpleby3440]

Ditto for my Austrian military jacket.

[@Detectingthepastuk]

Have you a link to the French goretex Jacket

[@jamesnurgle6368]

I've got a lot of love for sheepskin with G-wax put in with a heat gun. not exactly hike friendly but its nice that even if it eventually gets wet you wont notice until you take it off. I do want to try some sort of very waterproof non-breathable material with just a ton of vents.

[@laurieharper1526]

The problem seems to be that we all want high breathability in waterproofs. I'm an angler and have a jacket and salopette set that is genuinely waterproof. Great for sitting on the riverbank in a downpour, but you wouldn't want to walk far in it because you'd end up like a boil in the bag chicken. My cycling and walking waterproofs are OK up to a point, but I do get wet in heavy rain. You just can't have it all.

[@Nbstevens78]

For me.. as long as the wind doesn't get through and you're moving it it what it is.. my best running jacket has to be my Montane hard shell original Spine jacket.. been a solid jacket

[@alangauld6079]

I remember the days when we had a choice of 100% waterproof 0% breathable PU Nylon cagoules or 70% waterproof, 70%breathable ventile cotton ventile jackets that got three times heavier in rain. Goretex when it appeared was indeed a miracle fabric. But you are right, nothing is perfect. I use Goretex and Paramo. Goretex wets out and stops breathing so you get wet from condensation. Paramo wets out but pushes the wet away until it can't push the water out as fast as it's coming in. The end result with both is you get wet after 2 or 3 hours of steady rain. The big difference is how much they breathe (and dry out) when the rain stops. Paramo dries out much faster, so in typical UK showery weather (or in snowy winter conditions) Paramo wins. But in continuous rain (and for lightweight backpacking) I prefer Goretex. And if it's predominantly dry then no contest - I can wear Paramo all day and it will breathe but Goretex stays in the pack.

[@pjagger69]

I made this point when giving tips on the West Highland Way FB forum. ANY waterproof you wear, £500 or £8, will stop rain water penetrating. Put it on in a humid climate, go outside in the rain and start to move, condensation builds up on the inside, and stay outside long enough, and you end up soaked from your own sweat. No fabric lets all the water vapour out via venting. None. Not 1. You will get soaked one way or the other. This opinion is based on my own experience over 11 years of exercising outdoors, riding motorbikes in all weathers etc with every cost bracket of e-Vent, GoreTex, Go Outdoors cheapest options and everything in between.

[@carraw3501]

Ive never had a waterproof jacket that does what it claims in the wet or regards breathability. Some i reproofed, no difference. In the Scottish Highlands all sorts of factors come into play, the temperature differential within the garment and without seems important. ie its often very wet, but not that cold. Rain is often wind driven and gets in. Im thinking optimal conditions for breathability would be cold and dry, which isnt worth paying a big amount of money for.

[@davidalderson7761]

I avoid being cold and wet at the same time even if it means getting in a bivi bag and heating up. Some companies advocate warm even if you are wet but it’s too easy to be both if you’re not careful. I walk a long way and cycle a long way too and being cold and wet at the same time is my key avoidance. Wet and warm till you stop of course then your wet and cold. The companies talk crap all the time. The wet out nowadays seems to be every product regardless.

[@TheRealColt]

looks like youve overlooked wool garments there matey. instead of resisting the rain and fighting it why dont you embrace it in a natural way with wearing wool outer. if you use a felted dense wool outer it will resist getting wet for a long time as it can hold upto 2/3s its weight in water and when it does eventually get wet it wont feel it nor will it sap as much heat energy from your body because its still insulative with micro air pockets within the fibres, the fibres also are hydrophobic and thus are always moving creating micro amounts of heat helping the garment to dry and also self cleaning. plus its hypoallergenic fire resistant, does not make loads of noise when rubbed againts itslef unlike those cheap garbage binbag like waterproofs you get and its anti reflective. its that good sheep have used it since the dawn of time and you dont get sheep complaining in lashing down rain or in blazing sun.

[@ferruccio4531]

how do you know sheep don't complain? my neighbour's sheep fight for a place under a canopy when it rains.

[@chasdart7298]

Yes, you have a point. I wear and swear by a "Swanni", but have you ever had to walk any distance in one when it eventually gets sodden?

[@PamelaD963]

I noticed in old films a tweed jacket and a wool polo neck are usually worn in the rain.

[@tom9979]

I’ve got a Rab downpour jacket, I think it’s the plus 2. After trying loads of coats of the years that always let water in, it’s the only one that has been totally waterproof. It perhaps suffers a bit with breath ability but not terribly. On the other extreme, I have a cheap pair of hi gear waterproof trousers that have never failed me! Sometimes you just get lucky I think.

[@bdavidson5187]

Ave got an old Berghaus AQ2 from 2012.. All a do is soak it with Fabsil gold then air it... Works for me...👍

[@scotbotvideos]

Is that like Cuprinol?

[@bdavidson5187]

​@@scotbotvideos is that no for painting sheds n fences 😂😂

[@scotbotvideos]

@@bdavidson5187 Yeah, but maybe it's works on your gear as well. ;)

[@bdavidson5187]

​@@scotbotvideosnah nae sure aboot black ash or urban grey... Mind you coastal mist sounds lovely... 😂😂😂

[@LowPlainsDrifter60]

I started using oilskin (waxed cotton) in 2008 & haven't used anything else since. Having spent hours under rain & walking in thunderstorms (I don't do that anymore 🙄) I never got wet underneath. They are heavy though, hot & definately not "breathable" I used ponchos a lot in the 80s & with adequate clothing underneath, are prehaps the only true "breathable" option due to the airflow & they help keep a backpack dry too. The perfect material though hasn't yet been invented but as you say in your closing comments, it's better to be little damp than soaking wet.

[@Hudsonnn52]

I work for the biggest telecom company in uk and the gore-tex coat they provide has kept me dry for 8 hour shifts out in it all day. But similar to yourself I go camping/hiking and get drenched wearing my own 😂 don't fancy wearing big high vis with company brand all over it

[@francoisgirard8399]

In France the Raidlight GM advised using a waterproof and breathable rain jacket under a waterproof and NON-breathable jacket or poncho to ensure moisture evacuation through the breathable jacket and avoid the hypothermia. As long as the humidity gradient remains decreasing everything is fine but when it reverses, the humidity is no longer evacuated. I use two rain jackets, one breathable and one non-breathable. The umbrella cannot be used in windy weather, you are too tall, in the forest...

[@rcole134]

It sounds silly, but learning how they work and then planning around how they work is the best thing you can do. A membraine such as Goretex for example will keep the rain out but if your very active whilst you're wearing it then your bodies own sweat will make you wet. The goretex hasn't failed to keep the rain out, it's just not breathable enough for the ammount of exertion. Something like Paramo on the other hand is excellent when you're working hard but if you decide to wear one whilst say belaying in heavy rain then it will fail to keep the rain out because it's not designed as a stand around in the rain jacket. This is why there is no single piece of clothing that's good for everything. It all just comes down to knowledge. Another excellent option for keeping you dry whilst being very active is a good old fashioned single membrane poncho. It won't keep your legs dry, but its more waterproof than any other membrane and way more breathable than any jacket. The other problem many have is that they don't really understand what the word 'waterproof' means, but advertising can be somewhat blamed for that.

[@jonison6847]

Absolutely !