Way Of The Chi Arts- A Tierlist - Shogun 2

[@oldrabbit8290]

6:55 - what about the actual legendary building? it gives +2 rank for ninja agent, which when coupled with ninja specialty building mean rank 5 ninja from the get go.. Furthermore, if you are the 1st one to build it, you have another 5% of ninja success chance. Of all the legendary building in the game, the Ninja chain is the easiest to attain, and has the biggest impact; so i don't see why not go for it.. And in term of investment, you only need 2 art. One (the ninja one) is A tier, while the other (Noh) is F.. However, Noh is just tier 3, so it's not that big of a time sink. Ninjutsu Mastery greatly improve your ninja agent, which is the most powerful agent in the game. It's weird that the 2 metsuke tech got B tier, while something universal useful like Ninjutsu Mastery only got D.. PS: and then at 12:06 you put the monk 10% success chance a tier higher than ninja 10% success chance..

[@MrPathorn]

Well Ninja specialty are limited to Kansai region only. You would see little chance to utilize if you are not Hattori Ikko Ikki or Oda or Togukawa.

[@jlima5509]

@@MrPathorn you can still make use of it with other clans. Being able to recruit rank 5 ninjas is essentially a failsafe in case you lose your ninja or if you dont want to train 5 of them.

[@oldrabbit8290]

@@MrPathorn most Southern Clans (ie Shimazu, Otomo, Chosokabe, Mori) can grab the Kansai region (or at least the Kii province) once they finish with the 2 islands and still have a few provinces to spare before hit Ream Divided limit. Takeda, Hojo and Uesugi could also move South if they do wished (Omi is 4 provinces away from Takeda's home province; Hojo could easily reach it by sea; and Uesugi may soon find themselves butthead with Ikko). Only Date is truly hard to grab Kansai region. and even if you don't have ninja province to recruit rank 5, you still be able to recruit rank 3 ninja with max army sabotage skill, which is miles better than rank 1 nobody..

[@TheVikingGeneral]

You know, I really managed to completely miss that fact. The Infamous Mizu Shobai district is a good building, especially if you construct in in the omi province or other provinces with fertile lands. This might actually bump it up to B tier, but at least C indeed. I put the monk art a tier higher simply because of the difference in the required arts. But with this new insight even with the worse requirements I'll definitely choose Ninjutsu mastery over Scholarship.

[@MrPathorn]

@@oldrabbit8290 Not on higher difficulties, you can have about 10 provinces. And even if you already hit realm divide, you will already be steamrolling and have less use for ninjas. Only good thing is to replace your ninja who died but it is still too much effort (art, goods and building) to get instant level 5 ninja. And Level 3 Ninja with Burakumin can already do enough (misdirection rank 3) with mastering any arts. And forget about money, even merchant guild got more money from it lol.

[@DarthFaded80]

It's wild how this game still slaps 10 years in. Great videos btw!

[@miauw8762]

It's one of the best games ever made. It's so timeless. It's 10 years old and still look great

[@AvengerAtIlipa]

Secret Police is actually S tier as the Tokugawa, since it's the only way to get a sixth Metsuke in the vanilla game (assuming you already have 5 before you research it).

[@TheVikingGeneral]

Haha, it's true about being able to get 6, but you'll probably lose one of them soon after anyway ;)

[@AvengerAtIlipa]

@@TheVikingGeneral Don't remind me. :(

[@MikeDerucki0]

Great guide but inciting revolts is VERY important in taking key provinces without declaring war

[@jesserayparker6592]

I have done a Chosokabe game where I did epic architecture, built a citadel and imperial roads, got the kinza mint with the last tier building of the market chain once. All I had was the 5 province shikoku island you start on with 5 full stacks, half samurai, on hard and I was still making 20k a turn. I steam rolled after that. It was fun

[@kyokushinbaka6046]

I would rate School of the Shinobi at S tier since the smuggling network building allows Kii and Omi to become 2 out of 5 richest provinces in the game and also Ninjas are a great shock infantry unit, the cost reduction from the art stacks with defender of the people and noble bandit to reduce ninja action costs to 0 as well. School of the shinobi is also a super easy art to get only requiring 12 turns to get all the way from Way of Chi. Chonindo for me would go down to A tier because of how late game it is, Bow warrior monks can easily reach 100 acc without master bowmaker, so the only reason to get chonindo would be land consolidations, which you can delay or even do without. I would also put Calligraphy a bit higher especially for Takeda, Hojo, Uesugi, Date, Ikko Ikko, Hattori and Oda since you can get 4 philosophical traditions very fast and that would equate to a 52% reduction in research times, which mean you get all other arts much faster allowing you to get the entire tree researched by the end of the game on a domination campaign.

[@TheVikingGeneral]

There will always be different nuances depending on play styles and clans. I tried to make them as broad as possible and not look too much into what certain clans can do with certain arts. But I do agree with what you're saying!

[@Vincrand]

In my first playthroughs I always went for chonido, but as I moved up in difficulty I dropped it and even equal fields get's barely picked. The payback time for the farms you get in those tech is simply too big for provinces that don't have a metsuke in it. I'd rate the 2nd ninja tech higher as well as sumo tournament. Sabotage armies is a very powerful tool. Increasing the succes rate by 10% is significant. Also if you have that tech you'll be able to recruit lvl 5 ninjas. These buildings will also boost your eco significantly, especially when build in Omi. You can get up to 3k+ tax income from that town (yes tax income and not town wealth). The Otomo can conquer the entire map without triggering realm divide by using it's rebellions. So maximising the missionaries in this is a very good strat (reducing cost + increasing succes rate).

[@Geekman333]

Great videos Man. Currently learning this game. Really enjoying your work. Thank you.

[@nishimio1974]

Thank you for all the useful videos! Shogun 2 is one of my favourite games, I always come back to playing it. Your videos help me get back into the after not playing for some time. I never bothered learning about some things, such as skill trees, especially since there havent been good videos about it. Plus you make all kinds of videos to broaden my knowledge. Much appreaciated and good luck with your future endevaours! :))

[@spicyt1494]

Anyone from 2024-2025 and wish there will be a shogun 3?

[@lanixgaming5114]

Thanks for these videos man I’ve learnt a lot more about shogun 2

[@TheVikingGeneral]

I'm happy you did! :)

[@dudeistpreist5721]

On citadel "you'll never get to this art in a normal campaign " I'm not good at these games which is why I'm watching this. I never know what to prioritize and I want to get everything because I hate fighting everyone all at once which is why that's a normal campaign for me. Also I want to capture the dammed blackship and get all the trade routes. A trading superiority and a few good chokepoints would make me happier but I can't get to that comfort area of expanding and risk but I hate risk and time limit games. I like to build up as solidly as possible and overwhelm the opposition. Making one mistake and losing everything is so infuriating that I become scared to prioritize any units in upgrades. I like bow units and Spearman but would like a few focuses that any clan could use. I think the right side of bushido is typically more useful and religion is very useful for expanding territory but I have problems knowing what to prioritize and what upgrades to get for achieving dominance and a good economic foothold to expand without my prvinves falling apart.

[@miauw8762]

It's possible to get it but people just play way too fast

[@MrBanks2024]

Is it possible Ninjutsu Mastery has a special case for the Hattori? Firstly you'll be incentives to get to school of shinobi soon anyway as there is a free Kiso for you and you will then get a chance to make a big boost to 2/3 local economic stations in the centre of the map. There are 3 specialist ninja locations around where Hattori start. That means unless you go east and abandon post, you will always have a chance to make best use of the tech tree; with this last step I have read that you can recruit 5* ninja, a geisha (and Hanzos Shadows as well well as blinding grenades for your 1+ Kisos). This seems to me to be a recipe to have eyes far beyond your area, to lock down a small area with your agents and rely on them rather than large armies you have to pay a heavy amount for Kiso training on (Kii is a nearby rich provoince with a specialist ninja building chain and both a monk / netsuke chain building adjacent - this also speeds up chi arts). You may also need money normally spend on upkeep of troops to make use of the building slots where a market might normally fill the space to ensure that units can be made quickly to order and cheaply, this means castles and encampments and military buildings, leveraging the fact there are no overheads on garrisons too. I've seen a video where Kiso can demolish a Katana Samurai with very few losses when used micro, so this seems like a recipe to anticipate trouble far off, have the funds and cheap effective actions to deal with it (assassination / sabotage but all agent action) and clean up and mess for relatively cheap (kiso on walls and one or two to disrupt an otherwise orderly army. I'll give it a try but I'm wondering how you see it and what I should anticipate as problems?

[@saulescolar333]

Acabo de terminar una campaña larga con los shimazu como cristiano. Puedo asegurar que los monjes se utilizan principalmente para iniciar revueltas en provincias budistas. De hecho, puedes conquistar todo Japón sin declarar la guerra a ningún clan. Lo digo porque yo colocaría las dos últimas artes del chi uno o dos rangos por encima. También es una campaña que te recomiendo, shimazu o mori cristianos. Siento no escribirlo en inglés, pero no es mi primera lengua, y para esta explicación me veia muy limitado.

[@TheVikingGeneral]

Don't worry about the spanish, I have google translate :P Missionaries can definitely be used for revolts as well! However, I personally don't tend to rely on them too heavily, that's probably why I would rank them a bit lower than you might ;)

[@joshmaverick6692]

Can you also do a character skill tier

[@TheVikingGeneral]

I covered each character on their own, but I might be able to do a short tier-list overview for them too as an extra. I'll note it down!

[@judgegabranth2188]

Isn't tax reform one of the best arts? The amount of money it adds is insane. For example, if you have 10 settlements with 2k wealth on average, that's 1000 koku per turn. Merchant's guild is also worth the trouble in a settlement that has a good metsuke.

[@miauw8762]

I don't get why people say you never gonna build it anyway. You don't have to finish campaign in 1575, you still have 25 years

[@maxmustermann-zx9yq]

you are wrong about markets though, 1 food throughout your empire, even at 20 provinces gives only 20 extra koku at a tax rate dipping under 20% aka 4 koku meanwhile even the first tear of marekt upgrades in a wealth focused province gives 5 koku at a 70% tax rate meaning also 4 koku plus the wealth bonus this 5 super wealthy provinces play style fits especially well with central clans and a slow expanse at about 1 province per year this way clans will like you and not declare war across the map prioritize getting reseach and the diplomatic arts, central clans can grab 3-4 in the early midgame monks are really good for that too, skill them into demoralize and farm XP (plus recruit at rank 3!) this way you start with 5 monks giving you +30% chi research and when reaching top rank they will be giving +90% this will easily escalate your campaigns into chi heavy fast reseach campaigns where you have research so fast you will get to the bottom of chi reseach quickly this play style you can and should go for the the +5% replenishment bushi still though since you are heavy into chi early, might as well pick up ninjas, you still get all the samurai, might just not be the first to build legendiary dojos at least you'll be the first to afford full samurai stacks

[@Vincrand]

I usually get the top 3 techs from both sides (unlocks rapid advance which can be used for heaven and earth). In that time train up monks and then as you mentioned you have high chi research rate. I'd say ninjas are worth it in any campaign. Tier 3 ninjas can have 7 stars in army sabotage, which is a very powerful tool. Targeted army can't move and on top of that takes damage. I partially disagree with your market statement. Metsuke have deminishing returns if you stack them in the same town. So it's usually best to spread them over your 5 most wealthiest towns, unless town 5 has significant less value than town 1. So if you have them spread over 5 towns, than that 1 food drop will also result in 5x -1 wealth/ turn in higher tax provinces. So the +5 local ton wealth from the market upgrade gets cancelled out by this. All other towns will also lose town growth, but as you stated that isn't very significant. The town wealth increase is more than you'll get from that 1 food over non-tax provinces, but it's probably not worth it in the mid-game. Early on when you don't have many towns I'd for sure upgrade 1 market in a already rich province.

[@MrPathorn]

Hahaha Again, My Prediction Just for S Tier : Zen, Todofuken, Equal Field, Chonindo And you don't have to research anything else in Way of Chi tier EVER, really, just spam Market/Rice exchange Merchant guild level 4 Farms everywhere and you will be rich enough. Master bowmaker for accuracy. Of course you need Way of Chi and Tax reform but it is required for Chonindo anyway Read more for other Subpar tier list Religion arts - Warrior Monks are too expensive and required too much investment in one province to build tier 2 buddhist and tier 2 spear/archery, while one building can give you Samurai unit which have more armor and have 75% attack of warrior monks which built in same turn. I've never used warrior monks in Short campaign ever. Otomo Religion arts - A bit better since you need to spam missionary Ninjutsu arts - Kisho ninja are also situational and if nothing else, too micro intensive to use outside siege battles. Hanzo shadow is good but only 1 can exist. Tea Ceremony - redundant since you can vassal farming/Heroic victory farming. Sumo tournament - just worse version of Zen and Sword hunt since those Sumo eats too much lol Traditional building -You don't want to make castle every town to preserve food or use it for market chain Ginza mint/Epic Architechture - Too late in the game to be really useful, you might have just become Donald Trump of Japan already. Noh - Just make your Daimyo Powerful and Harakiri all your bribed General and betrayal will not be your concern. Caligraphy - Too much investment for little boost in research, get Magistrate for money instead Metsuke Chain - You mostly use Metsuke to mine bitcoin anyways and Sword hunt have too much investment for just +2 repression while you can just hire 2 ashigarus for few turns.

[@MrPathorn]

Wow, a bit close.

[@TheVikingGeneral]

@@MrPathorn Not too far off indeed, but definitely some interesting insight. :)

[@reton8279]

Tea cerenomy?? Just make one vasall.. :D

[@TheVikingGeneral]

Eh, vassals will stab you in the back, tea ceremony won't :)

[@williamroevik9746]

What happened on your tierlist of the military arts? Music was way too loud from 2:50 to 6:10

[@TheVikingGeneral]

Yeah, apparently there was something wrong with my software and it randomly decided to ignore my volume settings on certain sections. I'm working on fixing it right now.

[@anthax908]

It sounds like he is talking in stop motion.

[@hamsternumber1]

ARIGATO