Wayland Is NOT Ready ...

[@naskue4187]

DISCLAIMER and please pin this... The "Works on my machine" shtick is not a good way to start off a comment. Please refrain from falling in that hole and refrain from discarding the information here.

[@raute2687]

But isn't it important to point out that some people have a great experience where others report issues? Don't want to scare off any newbies. If they have issues when they try it, they can switch to something else.

[@MichaelNROH]

@@raute2687 I don't think that's a solution since it would mean, that some need to switch their hardware just to "try" something. Not a great experience for starters. More advanced users are already considering stuff like that when upgrading

[@ArunG273]

Works on my machine.

[@DashieTM]

I usually agree, but there are certain things in this video that aren't wayland problems but are on another end. For example scaling with different resolutions, works on kde, perhaps a gnome issue then? It would be unfair and also illogical to be blaming wayland here. I understand this aspect from the users view, I switched to wayland now it doesn't work, but this doesn't help devs if the problem wasn't the wayland protocol, but the implementation that gnome did. Or the pipewire lag, yet again not a wayland or pipewire issue, but something with either obs, or nvidia, or the xdg-desktop-portal, whatever. Gsync doesn't work, well, not a wayland issue since vrr is supported, this is actually the big reason I am using wayland now. Yes that's the AMD implementation, but what can wayland or any DE do here? GSync is proprietary and not accessible to anyone but nvidia. Conclusion, for lots of users the implementation in their DE really isn't ready, but none of the problems here are with the protocol itself, there are problems but not these ones. So please, instead of blaming the protocol, point out issues so gnome, kde, nvidia and co can fix their implementation. Sidenote for Vsync, there is a merge request that is gaining traction right now. So vsync might soon be fixed in gaming. Also, recommend it for AMD users in general, especially if they have a vrr monitor.

[@DashieTM]

@@raute2687 It's important to be clear what works and what doesn't. Which in the case of wayland and its implementations sadly isn't. There are people who look at me like I am crazy when I tell them I had a better experience on wayland for gaming, but that is because I have multiple monitors, an AMD card, and the main gaming monitor has VRR. So yeah, it does work better than Xorg. Even the most devout fps gamer would agree when they would see the comparison. But that is only because I do have an AMD card AND VRR. 60hz monitor? enjoy locked vsync. Nivida? ehhh, yeah. right now, don't bother with wayland. For example, Michael has the worst setup possible for wayland as it seems. Not his fault, but it also doesn't paint a fair picture.

[@vaxryy]

Hi - a developer of a somewhat big Wayland compositor here. (Hyprland) A fair bit of points you bring up are valid, but some feel, off. Multi-mon with multi-res: I have not had a single issue with my laptop (2880x1800 iirc) and external 1080p / 4K displays. Works fine, scaling is absolutely ok. Rarely do I hear complaints about this. One issue that there is (at least on wlroots, and not GNOME / KDE) is blurry XWayland on scales that are not integers. Ugh. Screensharing - seems like an issue on your end, with the performance. On my system, and many others', OBS has the same CPU/GPU impact as on X11, and seems to work just fine. Streaming and recording works without a hitch. V-Sync - Yes, it's there. However, I wish I could measure it with some tool. A lot of the complaints are usually actually placebo - most people complaining about "lag", when asked to provide the output of debug profiling show that the ENTIRE composited frame renders in WAY less than 1 / [Monitor Hz], meaning the max lag would be the rendertime, being like 1-2ms, on top of the lag behind the most recent frame from the game (but that's both x and wl) I mean come on, I play CS:GO on Wayland and notice 0 difference from X11 other than the fact that I do not have to kill picom every time to have > 60Hz. I see your point though, but am unsure of the ability to implement it given the current model. Nvidia - yes. Is a pain. However, I'm pretty sure a bunch of issues Nvidia is being an ass about would be fixed by the community if they actually open-sourced their drivers. I'm surprised you didn't touch on the more annoying issues though, like for example the idiotic "fractional scaling" that is not actually fractional scaling - that's still "wip" and the protocol is still being worked on. Slowly. Ugh. Or explicit sync. Adding to the previous point - the snail's pace in developing wayland. I am more and more thinking of reading a bit and helping those people out, as they are slower than my dead grandpa. Wayland is being worked on because X11 is a massive old codebase with tons of band-aids that everyone in the dev teams just wants to get rid of. Wayland, overall, usually feels lighter and smoother for the average desktop user and allows for less garbage being done in the background, as is common with X. Overall - good video, but I disagree with the "is not the future part". "is the future" implies things need to change for it to become accepted, and that's the status with wayland. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

[@EpikIzCool]

I use wayland for multi monitor and xorg sucks with multi res multi refresh rate. Made all wine games run at 60hz. Kde wayland fixed everything and generally felt smoother. Kde just has wierd wayland bugs like hdmi and dp not wanting to reset correctly. Dp will break the shell. Gnome everything works perfectly but its not my taste.

[@mortiganto]

The forced vsync is quite strange, but im quite sure there is a solution being worked on. On AMD there is no additional latency as long as you have freesync enabled.

[@MRDaved]

There is a solution being worked on

[@oappi4686]

When i made switch from xfce (mint) to fedora 36 with Wayland, I literally saw no performance drop when friends window was closed, if anything it was slightly better. (using amd vega 64 & threadripper 1950). If anything alt tabbing from game became more stable. Only problem I have with wayland is that steam's friend window cannot be on same "desktop view" as main steam window. It can cause huge lag, like occasionally if stars are aligned badly i get 5fps, but most of the time it is 60fps vs 80fps when friends window is on different desktop. I believe there is somekind of bug in steam that causes this and running steam in Xorg mode does solve the issue. Also why wayland: No-one wants to develop Xorg anymore. It will never get HDR support nor different refresh rates to multi-monitor setup. Lets not kid our selves either. Xorg has it's own multimonitor problems, and I am sure Wayland issues will be fixed eventually by community... Xorg is pretty old and it still has multi-monitor issues. I must admit though that XFCE with Xorg was more snappier experience on desktop, but comparing gnome Xorg and Wayland variants, i cannot see any difference. I also hate to say this, but using NV hardware for gaming is going to be bad experience. Just check steam statistics. In windows Nv crushes AMD, but on linux AMD users seem to have much higher retention numbers. Some may conclude that NV experience is just horrible in Linux and their users are running back to windows.

[@TheFezIsAwesome]

Untrue... Freesync still introduces extra latency when you're outside of the freesync range

[@connorazzarello5514]

What compositor are you using? I get horrible flickering with it enabled

[@mitch7918]

Whats the status of this in 2023? After giving wayland a go multiple times, (Gnome, Sway, others) the input delay drove me INSANE. And people called me crazy when I tried to say it was a thing. Watching this video at least helps restore my sanity that I'm not alone. Can you still not disable vsync on wayland?

[@antoinepins8322]

I've been using wayland for almost a year on my fedora install, and encountered (or at least felt) no issue at all. I game, have two monitors with slightly different resolution (1920x1200 and 1920x1080), and record with obs from time to time. Maybe it is because I run an amd gpu (RX 570) but I am a bit surprised by your hassles. I guess I'm lucky.

[@klashnikov22]

exactly my experience with an amd rx 570 and a r3 4100, in my case using vkcapture for obs.

[@MichaelNROH]

Not all issues have to do with Wayland as in the protocol, but also the compositor and the hardware. While AMD and MESA integrates way better with Wayland (and even using VRR), API integrations and broken extensions are still some problems that can occur there as well. Just google: "Blur my Shell extension wayland primary monitor" and you find a lot of posts that also use AMD

[@antoinepins8322]

​@@MichaelNROH To be clear I'm not questionning nor discarding the point of this video. I knew Wayland had some issues but I thought they were fixed by now, at least for amd gpus. So thanks for enlighting me, I hope Wayland will be usable for everyone at some point. And I should have said it in the first place, but nice video btw, subscribed 😄.

[@roccociccone597]

Same exact experience. Due to my monitor layout xorg has always sucked for me

[@luisortega8085]

Both on AMD igpus and on intel igpus, wayland has worked well for me.

[@rvmiv_]

I disagree, I think Wayland is the *future* just not the present

[@source2get]

Lol

[@computernerd8157]

The problem is not Wayland, the problem is that distros are making beta software default. No doubt Wayland will probably take over X11 but this need to happen after intens testing.

[@dcs-kc]

My biggest issue with Wayland is the near total lack of color calibration support. You can import a ICC profile in Gnome but the colors remain extremely over-saturated. Everything looks blown out like the TVs at a retail store. This is not the case in Xorg. So, for me, it's either Xorg or Windows for anything that requires accurate color.

[@MichaelNROH]

Hah, so it's not just me. My monitor is still within it's color range but I did notice a slight difference in vibrance, back when I was dual booting 🤔

[@dcs-kc]

@@MichaelNROH Definitely not just you. It is a widespread complaint among content creators. In my case, I can see a change in white point when I add the ICC profile, so the profile is recognized in some way, but the saturation level doesn't change at all. I find it so distracting that I don't even use it for things like watching YT videos. It just makes everything look garish. I can understand Wayland not supporting the color calibration hardware yet, but not being able to properly implement a industry standard ICC profile seems like a massive oversight.

[@_DT_]

Hopefully this gets solved as a step towards HDR support

[@dcs-kc]

@@_DT_ It's interesting you mention HDR. I am of the opinion that HDR is actually the problem. That feature has such hype behind it that it has leap-frogged a lot of other features that many of us believe to be much more important. I would take color accuracy over HDR any day. Besides, the Linux community isn't exactly clamoring for HDR. Hell, most of us are running Linux on hardware that can't support it anyway! I wish they would fix the basic things that affect people on a daily basis before throwing resources at nice-to-have features. Say what you want about Windows, but it's been reliably supporting ICC profiles since Vista. The lack of proper support in Wayland and, to a lesser extent Xorg, is one of increasingly few things that keep me working in Windows. Unfortunately, it's one I can't work around.

[@Иван-ы4с5ц]

It is? I had loaded ICC profiles for 2 of my monitors and it is looks just like in Windows. It is SDR displays, maybe there is the point.

[@mateusantunesoliveiraleite7672]

I've tried wayland on both Fedora and Ubuntu. There are a lot of issues that are showstoppers for me, like broken screen sharing, flickering on steam and video players segfaulting on startup. I've heard a lot of complains about dual monitors on X. However, it just works for me on Linux Mint.

[@szymonagiewka4513]

You lost me on "Wayland is not the future, as of right now". Well, duh. No one calls it the present yet. As for experiences with Wayland, until nvidia catches up, YMMV. All of these huge issues you mentioned: gaming, varying screen resolutions, screen sharing are working way better if you use AMD and KDE. KDE enables vrr automatically for full screen windows. FreeSync confirmed on my rig. I use a QHD (vertical!) and 4K @ 200% scale. No issues here. Only caveat is Xwayland games that think they're on 1080p. This will most likely be gone with Plasma 5.26. Disabling scaling temporarily for now. I screen share at work and it's just working. For games you should try out obs-vkCapture and obs-gstreamer. Glorious Eggroll has few videos on that. Last but not least, my PC with Wayland serves me not only for work and games. I also successfully run it to play games over network with Steam Link on my TV.

[@lennart3100]

AMD + KDE + Wayland is just awesome. To work around the xwayland scaling issues for games I just made a shortcut to temporarily set scaling to 100% on my 4k monitor when I want to game. After that I just set it back to 150% scaling. Works good enough so far.

[@ahmet05ac]

i dont agree with you about if wayland is the future or not. sure it has problems but we are in a transition process. i thought to myself if we need yet another display server troughout the video. but these problems are solvable in my opinion. gamescope xwayland should be improved. v sync should be optional. (i dont think it is the core element of wayland's way of work. so it can be disabled by the developers) aannnd discord developers should enable screen sharing by updatimg electron framework... last time i checked it was still unavailable

[@offertunatea]

Wayland focuses on very strict security so some apps won't work or their keyboard shortcuts are not working.

[@MichaelNROH]

Yes, I forgot that actually

[@myownfriend23]

Having used a multi-monitor mixed DPI setup on Windows, X11, and Wayland, Wayland is absolutely the best multi-monitor experience I've had. Under X11, my non-primary monitor would black out if refresh rates didn't match. When I'd use XRANDR to scale the monitors so that things appear the same size on both monitors, my mouse movement would slow down and the image on my primary monitor would look worse. I've even had scenarios where a window was scaled down on my lower DPI monitors so that text becomes completely unreadable. All of that was gone once I switch to Wayland. In fact, it was such a good experience that I actually opted to use computer with LLVMpipe for non-intensive work just so I could use Wayland, then I switched to X11 if I needed to render alot. I've been pretty much exclusively on Wayland for about a year now though. Also X11 doesn't really provide capture APIs either. X11 just has a vulnerability that allows any client to access the contents of any window. XCOMPOSITE just allows windows to be drawn into off-screen pixmaps instead of directly on the screen. This allows the DE to use compositing, thus the name. Since this separates a windows content from the rest of the screen, the aforementioned vulnerability can more easily access the contents of just that window. XSHM is closer to a capture API because it allows the server and client to share pixmaps but it's not really enough. OBS requires using XSHM, XRANDR, and XINERAMA in order to capture a single screen. The performance issues with OBS's pipewire capture are an issue but as far as I can tell that's only on Nvidia GPUs. If you look up issues on OBS's GIT, you'll see that they repeatedly say "OBS does not support Nvidia on Wayland". As for the latency in gaming, I understand that Vsync can tend to add latency but in regards to the latency that you're actually feeling, are you sure they aren't the result of XWayland?

[@kittenzrulz2314]

I dont feel any difference between Wayland and X11.

[@MrjinZin0902]

you can feel when you try to use pure X program in wayland and gnome wayland is not perfect. Also many none GTK programs don't behavior properly in many area. wayland have came long way and yet still left to go. probably you don't use wayland. you are using xwayland. ibus is still using xwayland and ibus is part of gnome. why on earth do we use wayland. it doesn't make sense.

[@MichaelNROH]

It depends on several things: 1. Do you have a high refresh rate monitor? (>144Hz) 2. Do you have a mouse with a polling rate of 1000Hz? 3. Do you have VSYNC enabled ingame or globally? If one of these things does not apply, then you won't feel a difference, simply because the latency bottleneck is not VSYNC in this case.

[@kittenzrulz2314]

@@MichaelNROH My monitor 60hz and I dont know the rest.

[@mizhimo]

I'm using Plasma and Wayland right now on a laptop because the trackpad gestures are kinda great. It is tough for me to return to X11 and not have them. However, Wayland still feels like beta software, at least in plasma. Not being able to share my screen on apps, having problems with some apps (like Rstudio) and dealing with multiple monitors is annoying; rn, not thinking of switching to Wayland on my desktop any time soon.

[@JoeSwansonsLegs]

For Discord, since its officially unsupported, you are better off using a separate client like discord-screenaudio, webcord, or Brave (if you want to stream youtube videos, since you can stream tabs w/ audio). I personally use discord-screenaudio from Flathub, since you can stream your desktop + any x/wayland application with audio without any microphone getaround. Ultimately though, screenshare on linux in general is infinitely worse because webrtc on linux uses software encoding instead of hardware.

[@galileotime]

Wayland is years away from being feature complete compared to X11, It's cool that so many popular distributions made it default but it isn't something as simple as adopting Systemd or switching to Pipewire, X11 has been the protocol for Linux since inception and it's going to be a long and hard process to be able to switch over pain free for every user. My own experience was logging into a Kde Plasma Wayland session and immediately noticing that scaling was broken for monitors above 1080p, Because every DE integrates Wayland in their own way the experience is never going to be uniform between what WM/DE you use.

[@vvgr409]

Wayland probably will never be feature parity with X11. Not all X11 features makes sense to be supported by Wayland.

[@GoatzombieBubba]

@@vvgr409X11 will die in 2029 that is the year they made that all work to be stopped, RHEL have deprecated X11 other distros will soon to follow. X11 is almost 40 years old and the original code is about gone due to all the hacks people put in to make it work with modern hardware.

[@damianateiro]

​@@vvgr409that does not mean that using gnome is 100% different from using KDE or using hyprland or developing apps for these

[@ParinyaTeerakasemsuk]

To me, it's a fractional scaling support for XWayland apps that hits me the most. Every XWayland apps with fractional scaling look extremely blurry. It's WIP at the moment, but it's very slow in progress.

[@MichaelNROH]

Yeah, a VSYNC fix is also on the way, but like fractional scaling, very slow

[@zeckma]

Knowing that I have two Nvidia GPUs (a 1050 Ti for video encoding and a 3060 Ti for gaming), as well as the general knowledge of less support and more headaches, it isn't worth it to switch to Wayland yet. I have little issues with X11, so why should I switch?

[@tobfos]

I agree with everything in this video. The only reason I use Wayland on my laptop is because of the superior touch-pad gestures that X11 doesn't have. But I'm using X11 on my desktop still for the foreseeable future, until Wayland actually improves my experience at all.

[@MichaelNROH]

Generally speaking Touch gestures are way better on Wayland. X11 can support them with some effort (not sure which Distro uses that), but generally speaking Wayland has better support yeah

[@tobfos]

@@MichaelNROH I've heard that Elementary OS has them on X11 but I've never used that distro so can't speak on the experience.

[@MichaelNROH]

@@tobfos Oh yeah, that one

[@paulocavalcanti2011]

@@MichaelNROH Deepin has had great touch gestures for many years already.

[@beyond9thousand]

What are these touchpad gestures exactly?

[@tui3264]

weird that I have exactly opposite experience even with Nvidia GPU, I never preferred Linux as Desktop before Wayland even though it was not made for Desktop usage (wayland was originally meant for embedded). but overall Linux Desktop development is pretty slow

[@craigw4644]

Been working with wayland last few weeks, Arch & Fedora 37. Lots of little annoying issues. Just about ready to pull the plug and go back to X11

[@JulezChilluminati]

I recently installed gnome on my moms laptop, which lagged like hell and the cursor had a really weird ghosting issue until i noticed that gnome now uses wayland by default. Switched to Xorg, now everything runs perfectly fine.

[@tobfos]

I've had this experience before...

[@Amos_Huclkeberry]

Is Wayland the slowest software development project of all time? It may be outdated before it's even completed.

[@Viktory_MkII]

I don't like Wayland for many reasons, but Xorg is not currently capable of handling freesync when 2 monitors are connected. That is a deal breaker for me. It might not be for some people, but I've been using freesync for quite a while and it's just a waste not to use that feature whenever possible.

[@LampJustin]

I don't necessarily think you're wrong, but you didn't quite think it though enough. Forced V-Sync is great for everything else other than gaming. I hate remembering all the tearing I had under X11 and the hacks to make it bearable. Also on AMD variable refresh rate does in fact work! It works better than in X I might add! If you have two monitors and want to use vrr, but they have different refresh rates than it won't really work as it connects all monitors to a big framebuffer. Also the screensharing problem is much more a feature than you made it look like. For gamestreaming it's shet, but in terms of security it's much better. With X any program has total control over the framebuffer and can capture your screen. I most certainly don't trust all the programs I (have to) use. Only because of this shortcoming there was room for desktop portals to chime in and create an API. It took some time but finally most/almost all video conferencing software finally support it. (except Discord, but you can easily use it in chrome),

[@MichaelNROH]

I don't hate VSNYC and would even recommend it for everything besides gaming (like you said), the problem is that you can't disable it completely. Yes, VRR and Freesync do work on AMD but it's still not quite as responsive as no VSYNC at all. Not really noticeable as well. VSYNC on Desktop is great, but in games, OFF should mean OFF. Oh yeah, X and multiple refresh rates can be bothering, especially when the gap is pretty big

[@somesalmon5694]

On my monitor I get really weird flickering when I use VRR it's the only reason I don't use wayland :( I hope it's fixed soon or at least I learn how to make it go away I really want to play with it more

[@typingcat]

This is bizarre. I am using Nvidia+Wayland+ multiple monitors with different sizes/resolutions. That multi-monitor support is the main reason why I chose Wayland. I have had no problems in setting different scalings in Wayland, but in X11, the same scaling was applied to all monitors. And there are screen recording tools like Kooha. My main problem is Nvidia. The screen becomes black when waking up from sleep.

[@IdeasAreBulletproof]

I would not say wayland is not the Future. But It will take years for it to Iron out a lot of the problems that it has If it wants to dethrone XORG

[@pell7737]

Great video! This video actually covers pretty much all the downside when I use Wayland on my AMD/NVIDIA hybrid machine! Like in the video, the main problem for me is the OBS capture stutter. It was just horrible and a disaster. I wish one-day wayland could make an API for direct video capture to solve this. But besides the video capture issue, things working pretty fine for me. And I like to continue using Wayland once I address the video issue.😃

[@pialdas6835]

Since Wayland is just a protocol it's up to DE devs to implement it on their compositors. I'm not sure if this is the reason ppl get varying results. Here's my feedback: On my system, I run Fedora 36 Silverblue with the default Gnome 42 DE. I use a Radeon 6700XT. I also just use the Mesa drivers and haven't installed the AMD Pro drivers (is that even possible on Silverblue?). I have multiple monitors with one at 1440p@144hz, a 1080p@60hz, and a 4K@60z TV. For gaming, it doesn't bother me since I have VSync on but I can see this as an issue (I don't play competitive games that much). Multi-monitor support has been fantastic for me except that I can't do fractional scaling recently (perhaps some sort of bug was introduced in an update) but when it did work I saw tremendous performance improvements vs on xorg. Screensharing has honestly been fantastic as well through Pipewire. Discord doesn't work with screensharing since they haven't implemented Pipewire properly for desktop screen sharing. OBS works perfectly and I use it as a workaround for Discord. The main big issue is that remote desktop functionality is broken. While g-r-d works fine, I was hoping for the return of something like xrdp where a local user is not required to be logged in. This is where I am at the moment. However, I will say Wayland has overall improved my desktop experience. Things are much smoother. I remember on xorg that moving windows around would be at ~60fps on my 144hz monitor. But, yeah, they still have a lot of work ahead for them and gnome needs to improve their g-r-d.

[@2CPT1MP]

Been happily using Wayland on Fedora with no problems =)

[@ari-mcbrown]

There's so much difference per distro.

[@MichaelNROH]

I'm on Fedora and I don't have a good experience. Overall desktop use is fine, but the extension bug, mouse delays (rendering lag) while gaming and poor video capturing forced me to switch back to X11. All issues disappeared then

[@ari-mcbrown]

I’m so confused. i’ve noticed so much improvement the last couple of months. The only thing I haven’t tested is streaming. Here’s the thing, I’m on a old cpu (intel i7 3770) and a gtx1070. So any performance issues I would notice them really quickly on my dual 4k monitors… and i did… when 36 was just released. But over the months everything started to improve, after (almost) every update. With also falling back to Nouveau driver a couple of times. But fixing itself after a reboot and permanently after an update again. I’m on acceptable framerates (capped to 60 with vsync, i do get tearing) I am aware obs had it’s own issues with Wayland specifically. While other capture apps seemed to have solved some of the issues (like screen sharing through Jitsi )

[@JessicaFEREM]

the more people that use wayland, the more eyes will be on it, the more support will be given to it, meaning the better it will be.

[@MichaelNROH]

True, but one very annoying and hard to solve problems drives users away and if they have big communities themselves, they won't recommend it 🤷‍♂️

[@JessicaFEREM]

​@@MichaelNROH that's true. it's a catch22 situation. if they can't fix this then it's not gonna be used and it's not being used because it's not fixed. xwayland needs to support Hi-DPi better than X, wayland itself handles Hi-DPi screens very well including independent monitor scaling without rebooting, but xwayland doesn't scale at all, making applications blurry on scaled screens.

[@roccociccone597]

@@JessicaFEREM I heard KDE has is working on something to make the scaling for xwayland better

[@JessicaFEREM]

@@roccociccone597 KDE is already doing it the best, and it's getting better is good to see

[@johnwpierce3]

@@JessicaFEREM scales fine for me

[@yuryzhuravlev2312]

If you are using an Nvidia card, you are not ready for Wayland! PS, but most annoying in Wayland, it's not ready protocols parts for support IM properly. Without it, it is difficult to type Japanese, Chines, Korean, etc languages. Hopefully, developers are working on it. Also, if you have a normal card (AMD, Intel) and you want to play, much better to do it on KDE.

[@viktor330]

Funny you mention KDE, in its Wayland implementation I have mouse acceleration issues when the flat profile is selected, making games where accuracy is required barely playable.

[@Roruoni]

i think he may have better performance with video capture using the nvidia encoder (nvenc) through the NVFBC. Consumer targeted GeForce graphics cards officially support no more than 3 simultaneously encoding video streams, regardless of the count of the cards installed, but this restriction can be circumvented on Linux and Windows systems by applying an unofficial patch to the drivers. Doing so also unlocks NVIDIA Frame Buffer Capture (NVFBC), a fast desktop capture API that uses the capabilities of the GPU and its driver to accelerate capture. There is a keylase github hosted project with patch shell scripts for patching NVENC and optionally unlocking NVFBC.

[@kanishcktewatia597]

So linux has a history of every good linux distro, DE etc destroying itself just when it starts to get really conpetitive with windows. and just when the only selling point of windows is gaming, the new display manager is bad at just that AND the devs don't want to fix it. hmmmmmmmm

[@MichaelNROH]

The basic concept of security is understandable, but the removal of often necessary features like capture APIs for Screensharing, etc., is poorly implemented (not at all, that is)

[@josephdegarmo]

The way that Kubuntu 22.04 still uses X11 by default totally makes sense here. Wayland is buggy on KDE.

[@HowToLinux]

this vsync and scaling issue is not existing for me. Atleast at KDE ArchLinux wit han GTX1080TI, 1x 120hz FHD + 1x 165hz UWQHD Monitor. I feel the latency even better on Wayland in some game like Witcher 3. Im an Osu Player and very sensitive to latency :) But all the other issues are true for me and even more like Electron Apps partialy not working on Wayland with nvidia

[@GabrielM01]

I agree, my friend has a rx 5700xt and wayland just works in his pc, but in mine? (Gtx970) simply wont, and i think it wont in the near future either

[@MichaelNROH]

AMD and MESA have way better Wayland support yeah. I think even the Pro driver does

[@JahidulIslam]

You need 16xx and newer models to use updated driver. Nvidia cut 6xx to 10xx series cards at 470 or 474 driver. 474 is probably the first version that got GPU acceleration for xwayland apps. So you are out of luck on wayland. Nvidia still needs to work on wayland support. Something like nvfbc but for wayland, night light support, freesync support in wayland and so on

[@MichaelNROH]

@@JahidulIslam Do you have a source for that by chance? NVIDIA still supports them according to the Driver's page and I'm not aware that they use hardware features that are not in older GPU's

[@GabrielM01]

@@JahidulIslam using the 510 driver with that 970 for a about 2 months now

[@JahidulIslam]

@@MichaelNROH older GPU may have problem with games that utilize vk3d to translate dx12 calls. I was wrong about the driver version though. But you will surely get less performance in GPUs older than 16xx series if the game uses vk3d under Linux.

[@tamino3777]

Same experience! OBS is laggy, discord not updated and nvidia drivers make the screen like „hang“ after logging in…

[@MrYossarianuk]

You can't share screen in zoom using KDE and Wayland. So I can't use it for work

[@MichaelNROH]

Yeah, that sucks 😔

[@BUDA20]

my issue is LACK of G-SYNC and the possibility to disable Vsync things that I can use in Nvidia using a 165Hz panel that means input lag, stutter, that I don't have on windows or x11

[@Mythologos]

Wayland doesn't work with any of the potato-boards I'm using. They're all low-end Celeron boards on Dell/Lenovo machines running Fedora/KDE, and for some reason copy/paste breaks every time under Wayland and I need that for work. Opening mounted volumes and using my server are also inconsistent under Wayland and screencap didn't work - I need screencap for work. I had to go back to X11. It's a shame, I liked a lot of things about Wayland, it was faster and smoother.

[@DBumple]

I find it odd because I don't have these issues. Streaming my screen works great, performance of games is smoother in Wayland, and I've noticed my mouse screws up when moving in certain angles only in x. For me at least on a 6900xt it works significantly better.

[@MichaelNROH]

Smoother can be explained by the implemented VSYNC method, probably Freesync on AMD. AMD has this advantage right now, since Freesync on NVIDIA does not work through Wayland yet. But nonetheless, there still remains some delay, simply because it is near impossible to generate frames in such a constant way that there wouldn't be any waiting time. That being said, freesync is nowadays so good, that unless you are a professional gamer, you probably won't notice a difference. It's like 144Hz. If you've never tried it, you won't miss it.

[@vvgr409]

Most of these issued are present only on Nvidia GPUs so the fact you have AMD GPU makes better experience for you.

[@MichaelNROH]

@@vvgr409 Well, no. Even though AMD handles these issues better, they are still there nonetheless. *Forced VSYNC is there. *No global Hotkeys are there. *No video capture API (two sided blade though *Native application support. Now a few of those issues like the last one are not always Waylands fault but as a Desktop experience, it is not ready for production use.

[@vvgr409]

@@MichaelNROH Forced VSYNC - Sure, I agree. No global hotkeys - Initial support for global shortcuts is merged in xdg-portal. That should bring support for it in near future. No video capture API - I've explained that in my other answer but in short - Pipewire handles that in better way than X11 does. Native application support - What do you mean by that? A lot of applications already have Wayland support. Sure there are some issues but overall things are working fine and in many cases Wayland can be usable as daily driver. X11 is also not issue free and in some cases it can be pretty difficult to use as well. For example poor multi monitor support is no go for anybody that uses multiple monitors.

[@MyAmazingUsername]

Your OBS pipewire capture framerate is an NVIDIA issue with fullscreen/full desktop capture. If you change to pipewire's window mode to just capture a specific window, it will be smooth. No idea why. I hvae NVIDIA too which unfortunately is terrible on Wayland. Mostly because they don't implement implicit sync on Linux so Xwayland apps (most electron apps etc) will stutter like crazy and will show a jumbled mix of old and new frames. It is being worked on by NVIDIA. I hope they fix this within 12 months. As for the other issues, such as forced vsync, this is being changed. There is some feature for Wayland which allows specific windows to request "no compositing" which in turn disables vsync for that window. And a universal way to enable that extension will be to use the gamescope wrapper around the games, which is a good idea anyway since it fixes lots of alt-tab/focus issues with Windows games on Linux. But yeah things aren't great with Wayland yet. I think the main reason it is so far behind is because NVIDIA held it back for decades by not supporting its proper implementation and therefore fracturing the desktop. Wayland is already really good on Intel and AMD and mostly suffers from specific apps not working on Wayland itself yet.

[@stevenmishos]

Admitted Linux noob here (so perhaps there are ways to address these issues with X11), but I switched to Wayland because it fixed my screen tearing, and offered 125% scaling. I'm getting weirdness with context menu placement, and window positions after sleep, but those are livable for me. System - NUC11 with Intel iGPU running a pair of 4K monitors (no gaming).

[@gorudonu]

1. Multiple resolutions - I am not sure about that one because I only use 1 monitor but I've seen videos showing that you can set it up - at least with wlroots 2. Regarding mux switch - read post on arch wiki from the guy who's done it - not ideal, but unfortuetly that's on nvidia 3. vsync - there's protocol for that "Tearing updates protocol" already merged so should be resolved soon. is wayland not ready? Valve uses it for steam deck with, I'd say, great success :)

[@NarendraU23]

Screen sharing on Wayland is broken yet again (on my device), and the solution I found is to use the 5.15 LTS kernel which isn't available on Fedora. It drives me mad enough to return to Windows 10 lol, screen sharing is too important for my college needs. Now I'm on Fedora again but I'm staying with X11, seems to be fine so far.

[@randomname2437]

Wayland just isn't for me rn. But I'm excited for it to mature

[@4cps777]

That's why I'm always switching between Xorg and Wayland. Wayland is great for coding and watching videos while X is great for gaming.

[@Noahrama]

yeah if you capture the screen with hardware acceleration, it will look terrrible (i KNOW that's what you are doing) . That's not a Wayland problem...

[@ultrakill5712]

Wayland feels like minefield u dont know which thing gonna work. Some windows gives u tiring, other provide wrong scaling and Games yes. I still cant fix my mouse problem in MMO game with dual monitor setup cuz mouse just went to another screen when i rotate character. Thats why i cant switch to wayland. Where wayland is good - native apps and raising. I really like how Hyprland feels and looks but cant completely switch on it cuz of gaming

[@expectnull]

forced vsync: nvidia problem. bad support for multiple resolutions: nvidia problem. high cpu load in wine: well not a nvidia problem, but will hopefully be solved when wine-wayland gets merged into main. low frame-rates: nvidia problem. why is almost everything related to nvidia? because nvidia like to stay proprietary. it's really just that. wayland for nvida is more like wayland shouldering a beastly child called nvidia on its tremendous shoulders. towarlds openly stated, how he distastes nvidia. maybe he is sick of living with xorg aka 1980s display manager, where everything is one screen, where you get the lowest screens refresh rate, when we have a so much better alternative with backwards compatible wrappers waiting to be harnessed.

[@yogapratama5225]

the opposite things happened to me, glitch issue screen recording in KDE Plasma X11 session solved when I'm using Wayland Session

[@brunovila100]

I installed Fedora 36 a few days ago and was wondering why i was only getting 60fps in csgo. Also flameshot, my favorite screenshot app, wasn't working either, switched to xorg or whatever and it worked, gotta try csgo now to check how many fps i can get on my poopoo laptop. Thanks for the video!

[@infinitycoffe]

Screen sharing on Ms Teams is the main issue for me, I use Fedora at work and I have a lot of meetings every day. It's a shame that this issue exists for years without solution.

[@motoryzen]

you mean....there exists a problem with a lie e or microshit software...that HAS NOT been resolved yet after multiple years!!? *makes sarcastic shocked face*. in other news...was is wet.lol

[@infinitycoffe]

@@motoryzen This issue affect ANY software or screen sharing tool! This is a Wayland problem.

[@motoryzen]

@@infinitycoffe it may be a Wayland involved problem. But it's also a problem sometimes on winturd too. Teams , like zoom, is $hit... Wendell from Level1techs has already explained there are better coherent software choices out there

[@infinitycoffe]

@@motoryzen Which choices? Anyway Teams is an application massively used by many companies. I think Gnome team should concentrate efforts for a solution.

[@motoryzen]

@@infinitycoffe I don't recall what choices Wendell mentioned because that episode was easily a year ago or more ago..

[@Tala2n]

It seems this thing was designed for the developer usage at Redhat, so no video games, the hardware has all the time for drawing a perfect frame. And its fair, everyone can do opinionated systems if they want, but the problem is Wayland is considered a general replacment X11.

[@Volian0]

sometimes I run weston, because I like playing with weston-flowers xDDD

[@chishingchan6069]

Future prove, good point. This may be the reason why Nvidia not motivated to dev. on Wayland. While there is a more stable X org. I think we need a new X server more than just replace it with Wayland.

[@TheShawMustGoOn]

A lot of utilities such as Guake/Yakukae, Kitty terminal don't even render properly on Wayland. But those are application issues. What throws me off is that I can't share my screen over video calls with Wayland. Same for camera. There will always be glitches. So I gave up on Wayland long time ago. If X11 is a 38 year old standard still getting the job done, I'm more than happy to use it everyday.

[@MichaelNROH]

Screensharing will be difficult to do, as long as they don't provide a capture API. Wayland tries to be lighter and faster, but if you have to use different solutions like pipewire, it's questionable if it really remains as light.

[@ZaberfangX]

So far on my AMD card, no gpu on my cpu and just 1 Screen max 75hz. I had better time with Wayland on KDE Nobara, then on Gnome Nobara. if I open Steam on Gnome under Wayland, I get system lag. KDE worked just fine and OBS no problem I seen. Can be a kwin and mutter thing, as kwin may have better updated to Wayland. Yeah Wayland need a lot more time it's not going work for everyone.

[@AyaWetts]

I play games... and almost all my games stutter too bad to play with Wayland, but run perfectly with X.

[@toordog1753]

Is is false that you need a server and a client for a display. That is just how x11 chose to implement it which xorg chose to follow.

[@YonnjiNyyoka]

The only issue with Xorg that you can't use G-Sync on multi-monitor setup, you have to switch off all other displays. But the Wayland have even more issues like G-Sync is WIP, laptop hybrid multi-GPU setup is partially working. And now I learned about forced V-Sync and game capture problems.

[@MichaelNROH]

Yeah, Wayland is getting adapted too quickly. Right now, for normal use cases, it introduces more problems than X.org

[@ricky12awesome]

The biggest issue I have with wayland is screen capturing/window capturing, if the only thing you want to capture is a vulkan game (includes DXVK), then you can use obs-vkcapture plugin which has basically no performance hit, the plugin also supports OpenGL but doesn't work with Nvidia currently The main reason I use wayland over X11 is that it handles multi-monitor support much much better then X11, since it treats each monitor differently and I can actually utilize the refresh rate on my main monitor, and I also have monitors with different resolution (4k, 1440p) and it works fine after I set the 4k display to 150% scaling (experimental gnome fractal scaling feature) everytime I use X11 it felt sluggish (because of the 2nd monitor), just moving windows, scrolling, etc just felt bad, but on wayland I had none of those issues and doing things feels much nicer for forced vsync, if you're playing a game in exclusive fullscreen (not borderless) it should disable compositing due to fullscreen unredirect in mutter, and every game I've tried felt fine (didn't feel sluggish and felt the same if it was on windows) I'm currently using Nobara and a 1080 ti gpu

[@MichaelNROH]

Mutter does disable VSYNC on fullscreen applications but it does not work with Wayland, since it's designed for perfect frames.

[@ricky12awesome]

​@@MichaelNROH I read an article on GamingOnLinux called "GNOME's Mutter gets 'fullscreen unredirect' supported on Wayland" it was from 2020

[@yeoldestuff]

I don't game on my Linux laptop, but Wayland is way better for general use. My laptop has a 14" FullHD screen, and my desktop monitor has a 24" 4K panel. There is simply no way to make this setup work under X, but in Wayland everything works "automagically" with proper per-monitor scaling.

[@MichaelNROH]

Mh, funny. On my system it's more broken. I've managed to fix some issues by reapplying all resolutions, monitor positioning and scaling options but still, sometimes folder and their contents are smaller than they should be

[@roccociccone597]

I do not agree with you. Wayland is the future. Both xorg and wayland are the present. I for my part have been a happy wayland user for over a year now. Though I had to switch to an amd gpu for that. But that’s the great thing about Linux. You can choose.

[@darsparx]

Heck with the multi monitor thing I hate that they don't remember where they are when I reboot or something forces them to stop for some reason. I have my windows where I put them for a reason....leave fhem there when on a multi monitor setup XD

[@danknil7097]

i've been using wayland for a while on my laptop(sway compositor), and yeah, screen sharing my minecraft gameplay in discord(browser) was terrible. But for me battery life improvements > screen sharing

[@danknil7097]

also there is plugin for obs - obs-vkcapture that reduce lag a lot

[@musthafakdml]

Wayland works well for me. With Xorg I had screen tearing issues.

[@roccociccone597]

Yes and major stuttering

[@Mendaz]

1:42 How did you get that look, by chance? It's so nice, sleek, and modern. Is it possible to do this on Debian-based distros?? Looks like the Cutefish desktop, but I'm not sure. Any assistance or tips are appreciated:))

[@MichaelNROH]

It's cutefish, yeah

[@wayland7150]

Give me 10 minutes, I'll be ready.

[@MichaelNROH]

K 😅

[@regbot4432]

I have intel mesa and wayland is a better experience. With X11 I have a lot of weird stuff popping up on to the screen like black triangles here and there, flickering etc. I need x11 only when I use renderdoc which is unusable with wayland.

[@motoryzen]

usually that black triangles or odd glitches problem is either a hardware problem (such as a failing psu or bad overclock on the cpu ) or often a driver issue. there are more variables that could be involved though

[@ioxic_yt]

Well, Wayland is the only way for me to get 144Hz when using linux, because X11 doesn't even have this option, max I can get is 120Hz, added xrand mode gets deleted after restart, so wayland is the only way to get a hassle free experience with refresh rates. Didn't have this problem when I was using GTX 1660 Super, now its present with RX 6700 XT

[@MichaelNROH]

Sounds like a driver issue to me. A similar behaviour can be observed when using Nouveau on NVIDIA. MESA probably broke something or it never worked in the first place.

[@ioxic_yt]

@@MichaelNROH But the interesting thing is that on any distro that's using X11 I can only get 120Hz, on Wayland distros and in windows 10/11 all is fine, been dealing with this for a while now, so whenever I have a chance I turn on Wayland, because nobody seems to have a solution for this.

[@euphanasia210]

Very good video, I tried so hard to make Wayland work on Nobara, not to mention other distros, but it had all the issues you mentioned. Back to Xorg.

[@MichaelNROH]

But isn't it the default on Nobara?

[@mhavock]

Also, how does screenlock work on Wayland with multiple monitors? Does it have issues or do you not sync so? LOL

[@MichaelNROH]

What do you mean? Works as intended

[@chrismcdonaldracing]

I will agree with you on the vsync issues but that's it. Every other point can be countered with this simple fact. In open source if you don't force change in the way apps are built then developers will not write there apps for the new technologies. You may not have been around for the switch from 32 bit libraries to just 64 bit but it was a mess. Distributions had to ship multilib for years because of devs not wanting to update there projects for 64 bit. Now we have the hole issue with glibc breaking user space because it no longer supports DT_HASH but dt_hash has not been the write hash to use in over 15 years but devs still do it.

[@jyudat4433]

okay, the forced vsync explains the horrible mouse feel on my laptop running fedora 36 + wayland (amd apu + dedicated gtx 1650). i was wondering this whole time why it felt like straight shit. lack of screensharing in major apps drives me up the wall too ! especially when i have important zoom/teams calls. i could rant too about suspend breaking when the nvidia gpu is in any use at all other the idling (extremely frustrating losing my entire session after closing my laptop, causing loss of data etc)

[@realquincyhill]

The issue with multiple monitors with 2 different resolutions is what really puts it off, xorg has no problem with my current setup.

[@Spartan322]

Wayland is still massively experimental despite technically working now (I remember when it never really worked, also it feels like Ubuntu and Fedora have turned into Pulseaudio 2.0 AGAIN, WHY? Did we really not learn our lesson last time with pulse?) but the thing that really hampers wayland seems to me more like echo chamber problems, it is exceptionally difficult to convince wayland work on some of these issues, like the pipewire stuff because last I remember wayland opposed screen capture for security reasons.

[@MichaelNROH]

Yeah, they also prevent global hotkeys

[@Spartan322]

@@MichaelNROH Yeah, but last I recall, might be wrong though, they claimed to at least consider working on that somehow, I know with screen capture they had said a lot more on opposing it, maybe its changed since then, this was a while ago, but wayland for a while now has had what seems to be a massive echo chamber issue.

[@cokesucker9520]

You seem to have very strong opinions.

[@user-lb1ib8rz4h]

@@cokesucker9520 if you need global hotkeys and screensharing, and the people who write a display manager say "no you can't have it due to our ideology", i'm sure you'd have strong opinions too.

[@cokesucker9520]

@@user-lb1ib8rz4h Citation needed.

[@Иван-ы4с5ц]

Graphic glitches, scaling mess, bad performance is what you get on X11. No, thanks, Windows is great option in front of xOrg. Wayland has problems, but it should be the future in Linux. Not might, not could, but should.

[@MichaelNROH]

I haven't had a single issue with X11 yet, besides using touchscreen gestures, even tough I have a mixed DPI setup.

[@Иван-ы4с5ц]

@@MichaelNROH on KDE and Gnome panels and cursor does not scale with all system on X11. Gnome loses his gestures, KDE loads first screen in 2 steps (left, then right part of screen). It really looks like outdated technology in front of Wayland. I use Wayalnd Gnome with 4k display and one big problem, that i experiencing - xWayland apps with fractional scaling, it is blurry. You need to scale through Tweaks → Fonts, but it is not perfect.

[@DominikZogg]

The only device I am using Wayland is my gaming PC (6900xt), on my notebook (Intel onboard graphics) I had stability issues with Wayland and yes, screen sharing with outdated tools like Ms teams doesn't work yet

[@MichaelNROH]

Sadly there is no "native way" to share your screen on Wayland since it is considered a security flaw. Programs and Applications that find their way around this issue (like Pipewire) do exist, but it's a lot different then to just access an API like on X.

[@DominikZogg]

​@@MichaelNROH for me it would be ok, if i have to agree each time i start sharing, but have it integrated, so apps don't have to adapt to thirdparty as pipewire

[@axonn101]

I have two different refresh rates, 240hz and 60hz, and Wayland is the only way to run both of them on AMD. On X11 with AMD 60hz was forced and if a game tried to go above that it became a stuttering mess. But to be fair I never had that issue with X11 when I used Nvidia.

[@EpikIzCool]

I use kde wayland on amd. It seems to run flawless besides kde bugs. Everything just works for me atleast. I game alot

[@andrebrait]

I don't get why my comment keeps being deleted, but anyway: some measurements out there have shown input lag on Wayland and Xwayland is just as low as in X11. It seems you're experiencing an NVIDIA issue.

[@MichaelNROH]

I guess you are referring to this: zamundaaa.github.io/wayland/2021/12/14/about-gaming-on-wayland.html The problem with these measurments is, that VSYNC cannot be disabled entirely for Wayland. There is always going to be somewhat of a synchronisation going. Setting VSYNC to off in game does not deactivate it and this increase in latency can be seen in the 99th percentile. Like I showed in the video, for a human to recognize a delay, it takes approx. 10 - 13 ms, which can be seen here (median -> 99th). Now, Wayland is getting some option to force of VSYNC entirely, but it's not known how long the development is going to take. It is coming, and it will fix the human perception. So in conclusion, Wayland is slower when wanting the lowest latency.

[@andrebrait]

@@MichaelNROH yes, that was the link I was trying to post. I get now what you meant. Thanks for showing where it showed up in the measurements

[@myrtle_arehone.16]

Ubuntu Wayland isn't A stable release, every time I open my Recyle Bin the OS with crash That's when I decided to go back to windows 8.1

[@MichaelNROH]

Not that great of a experience, yeah 😅

[@QIZI94]

I have exactly the issues you mentioned on X and fixed them by using Wayland(except the screen recording that is garbage on wayland). I am using AMD I think you suggested you are using nvidia so I think that might be the issue. A major thing that wayland fixed for me was when you have two screens with different refresh rates.

[@agathalorenzo4224]

Wayland does NOT work on nVidia optimus Tried with latest Tumbleweed & Fedora

[@MichaelNROH]

Ok now I am confused 😅 I told someone it probably doesn't work, but others said it does. Gonna take a look at this

[@agathalorenzo4224]

@@MichaelNROH Wayland work with nVidia *ONLY* when the nVidia card is the main card.

[@jamesm2075]

I admit that I have been using wayland for a few months now and I didn't even know about the forced V sync... I will have to investigate this further. Appreciate the information

[@MichaelNROH]

Wayland can use different VSYNC methods, if supported (Freesync, VRR, Adaptive, etc.), so you need to be careful when looking at latency measurements

[@Deserio2004]

I play fighting games a lot but only notice forced V-SYNC and therefore lag in Gnome/mutter but everything is smoother as in X11 with my RPi in Plasma/kwin. I believe the compositor is a major culprit here, thats the reason valve make their own "scope"

[@MichaelNROH]

Gamescope is a very good compositor and will certainly influence others in terms of feature priority

[@roccociccone597]

Which I believe is a wayland compositor right? I forgot

[@MichaelNROH]

@@roccociccone597 It is, but it works a bit different then most. It still faces the same issues when it comes to API's tough

[@TechJolt3d]

It makes my desktop faster and smoother, applications start faster, but my apps work worse. And i'm using my operating system to use my apps, so I am sticking with x11 for now.

[@SriHarshaChilakapati]

This could be only you. I'm using Wayland on two displays, a 1080p one and a 4k one and both have different scaling applied. It is seamless for me. I have a discrete NVIDIA RTX 3060 M GPU in my laptop and I'm able to play games (I'm not a competitive gamer) such as Plague Tale Innocense and Spider-Man Remastered at 4K through Proton GE. Since Proton GE 38 I'm not even seeing screen tearing which used to happen before. The OBS issue is present for me though. After like 10 minutes, OBS crashes with NVENC timeout error. Other than that, Wayland is working fine for me. Maybe you should try KDE's Kwin instead of GNOME's Mutter.

[@raute2687]

I don't know why I always have a different experience from anybody else, but my multi-monitor setup with wayland does not have issues like you described. One is 4k, the second is 1080p and everything works just fine. I'd really like to know what the difference here is.

[@MichaelNROH]

What Desktop Environment are you using? Maybe the compositor also has to do something with that. All I know is, that the folders in the Gnome menu are sometimes smaller for me. Still sharp, but somewhat shrinked

[@raute2687]

@@MichaelNROH I run Ubuntu, so Gnome. GPU is 6900 XT

[@YannMetalhead]

Good video.

[@jNayden]

What is the background at 00:39 it is awesome

[@MichaelNROH]

Some minimalistic sunset wallpaper. I dunno where I got it though

[@Sqwert-g6h]

I've been loving gnome wayland on arch... Until I needed to share my screen in Discord for my class. That was embarrassing

[@MichaelNROH]

Oh boy, the same happened to me on my surface 😅

[@Sqwert-g6h]

@@MichaelNROH I just added you to my growing collection of Linux youtubers lol. You have great content!

[@Sqwert-g6h]

@@MichaelNROH I'm using a little Dell XPS 13. It is my first experience using wayland. Seriously all was fantastic until that happened literally today. Next thing I see is your video. Fantastic timing lol.

[@xard64]

All these screen synchronization issues are inherited from very bad IBM PC hardware desicision choices: Up to this day there's no way of knowing what has been drawn and when. The 8-bit and 16-bit home computers were synchronized to a CRT on a level of knowing which scanline was precisely done when executing the code without any added latency. Monitor syncing to PC seems like a way over the top mitigation for such a seemingly simple design flaw but it's the best what we currently have. On linux with Nvidia fixing the vsync on desktop to work reliably on a single monitor using X11 without huge latency has been only a thing for around 6 years. The monitor handling is relatively new ground in that sense. I don't know if multi-monitor setups are also fixed but back then in around 2014 vsync did not work most of the time on Nvidia. To combat the issue there are all kinds of hacks put on top of hacks which kind of work when they work and if they work even on Windows (I've encountered multiple vsync stuttering / sudden tearing issues with my work laptop running win10 with two external portrait monitors).

[@Pracedru]

To answer your own question: My experience with wayland on Gnome is great. But I have also replaced my Nvidia GPU with an AMD GPU. And btw.. Pipewire is working surprisingly well considering how new it is.

[@nezu_cc]

> Multi-monitor support Well, IDK about that one bud. Wayland has per-monitor DPI scaling (impossible on X), Wayland has per-monitor refresh rate (impossible on Nvidia on X, fuck you Nvidia). For me, Wayland is the only reason I can even use more than one monitor and not get a headache from 40-60fps choppiness on a 144Hz. Also idk about the scaling thing you mentioned. I have a 2K ultrawide at work + my 1080p laptop screen and everything works and scales as it should. Yes, vsync is there, but at least it syncs to each monitor appropriately and not to the lowest common denominator. You can force the framerate on x, but that introduces more issues than it solves and a horrible stutter and insane tearing still remain. Another thing I love about Wayland is input support. Multi-finger gestures on a touchpad on X? maybe? but definitely not smooth. Touchscreen outside of basic point and click on x? forget it.

[@mimillie]

While Screensharing is a pain on Wayland, I disagree with the performance side of things. I've done comparisons on my own system between Wayland and Xorg and I can say that I have 20 more fps on some games with wayland, Maybe on the Nvidia side it's not working well but on AMD (especially on my low power hardware) Xorg even stutter with GNOME and when wayland is here, it's smooth. another issue with convertible laptop like mine with wayland is that it doesn't go to tablet mode automatically and no auto rotation too. but the performance I gain with Wayland are definitely worth it.

[@MichaelNROH]

I did some benchmarks myself for some gaming optimizations and the performance of all of the games I tested was either identical or within margin of error

[@mimillie]

@@MichaelNROH I think it's true on high end hardware but not on low end hardware. Xorg hit a bit more the CPU and on integrated graphics it does count.

[@MichaelNROH]

@@mimillie It does. I'm not even sure if it can address the GPU seperately

[@mimillie]

@@MichaelNROH it's computed by the CPU first (because Xorg use a server side and client side) and Wayland have less steps so that's maybe the thing on low hardware that make the difference.

[@dsngjoe2]

I been using wayland now for about 4 months full time and have had no real breaking issues other than not being able to share my screen on zoom. They see a black screen. I game alot on my machine and have not had issues but im running a 5900x with a 6900x. I also have 2 monitors a 34440x 1440@100hz and a 1080p @165hz and no issues there.

[@CesarPeron]

Intel GPU here and with two different resolutions (HD and Full HD) and with any graphic or composition issue at all.

[@vanodon2257]

Thank you for educating the noobs once again. For gaming its atrocious on latest tripple A games

[@MichaelNROH]

Not really tbh. Vsync is not that bad when playing single player games besides lower fps sometimes. Heck, most consoles use it. Competitive games or Shooters in general are a different topic since your arm and hand are way more sensitive to latency than moving a stick.

[@vanodon2257]

@@MichaelNROH I mean like wine specific really like I have had ghostwire tokyo outright crash my desktop environment and I think Far cry 6 actually worked fine other than some gamescope wayland glitch. Native games like warhammer have crashed it too but i only daily drove for a week. Still really appreciate the unbiased copium free video.