We Actually Got Our Cat Back - The PoddyC Ep. 15

[@_Zir]

Dorki directly asking Dratnos a question , Max interrupts and answers... if that was a drinking game we'd all be dead.

[@CrippsyS]

Yeh couldn’t agree more. Max can be quite overwhelming on some of these podcasts. Dude just needs to let people speak and not jump in on every point 🫣

[@Physicalmao]

He just has really bad adhd. I’m sure Dorki and dratnos understand

[@budlifegreenhouse]

Idk dorki got annoyed for a min there lol 😂

[@BeepBoop335]

Max is clearly just very passionate and a pretty high energy personality. Dorki and Dratnos are pretty chill in comparison. Doesn't mean Max shouldn't learn to tone it down, but I appreciate someone who is clearly so passionate.

[@CrippsyS]

@@BeepBoop335I mean I get you but it’s no excuse for talking over people constantly. If it happens time to time sure but everyone has some control, even if ADHD. Dorki did sound a little….

[@beradical695]

Ive never clicked a podcast immediately, with no considerations for what else i might be doing, more often than i do this one. I've been listening to podcasts since they've existed. Yall got something here for sure.

[@Cornincarnate]

Dratnos bringing back the jailer wc3 bit was perfectly timed

[@ggKikyo]

Listen, I LOVE this Podcast so much. And while I never skip a beat on these, I give mad props to whoever adds the timestamps! Makes it nice and easy to go back and finds tidbits I want to share with my friends. So thank you for that and thank you for filling such a huge void in the community.

[@Nyrocron]

Gearing being the way it is is one of the main reasons this is the first expansion in a very long time that I've been playing for the whole time. It allows players with limited time to play to get to the content they enjoy rather than giving up before being fully geared. Waht I would love to see would be more cosmetic rewards for the key range between +20 and title.

[@mattstreet4104]

Shoutout to Dorki team Last Hope popped the fuck off, was cheering you along the whole way. 4th in tbe world is still huge. Congrats

[@dylan4948]

I LOVE PIRATNOS AND MAX AND OUR RESIDENT CAT

[@ThePoddyC]

THEY LOVE U TOO

[@EpicNinja989]

Dorki asks dratnos directly what they should do for fated Max answers. average max moment

[@mattstreet4104]

Yeah the podcast is multiple monologues from Max and then tidbits from the other two. A little frustrating at times

[@Wendygram]

ADHD things.... Its not an excuse for sure, but as someone with ADHD, its insanely hard to work through the impulsivity. I'm sure all 3 of them know it happens and allow space for it.

[@nathanmanchester1967]

@@Wendygramit’s not adhd it’s not respecting you podcast mates and thinking thinking you’re the main guy. He’s always been like this though I’m used to it lol

[@Wendygram]

@@nathanmanchester1967 I mean. He also has ADHD. It's a factor.

[@quintit]

imagine thinking having adhd is an excuxe for being rude constantly.@@Wendygram

[@painfullyavarage4316]

The shadowflame rockets give and the shadowflame rockets takith away. Seeing the tech win against bandits was insanely hype and seeing it go horribly wrong against perplexed was insanely funny

[@Brandonherrschaft]

Unpopular take: Aside from the acquisition method of corruptions, the Ny’zoth patch was FUN, visions were fantastic, the seasonal M+ affix was the BEST they ever came up with and to further add to the “after a certain point mythic raid should just be farmed” Nyalotha was a PEAK example of that. I like how you guys brought that up. BTW: Best podcast I have ever listened to for Warcraft. It’s refreshing to get takes from people who actually play the game at a level where discussion is constructive and insightful.

[@ahiwalter9153]

Max finding out he didn’t get invited to the SOD party is so relatable lol

[@kylebb96]

Not sure if it was that, or if he didn't want to give the perception that his guild is slaking off.

[@CalvinHavener]

Never invite the boss to the party.

[@kylebb96]

@@CalvinHavener true could be as simple as.

[@Juniper_]

Dorki's take on needing to be consistent for MDI, and Echo kind of "beating themselves" with their inconsistency, makes me think of the difference between Echo and Liquid during RWF. Liquid are insane, but most of the time, it feels like Echo is just being more consistent with their pulls. I also cannot wait for the next TGP, as it's just way more fun to watch over MDI.

[@LimitMaximum]

Didn’t realize it until I listened to this back again, but I am talking way too much during these. This is something I’m really bad at and actively trying to work on. I’ll try to tone it way down for the future.

[@WinterMythGaming]

No, majority don't feel that. Sorry but those who have the most are now complaining about having the most. I'm still missing pieces because they just don't land in my vault. But I get to play more alts than ever now and I consider that to be great.

[@OMGITSJAD]

Yeah, sometimes these people complain about getting gear too fast on their main never touch alts. If they slowed down gearing on one character, it would be harder to get gear on another, which is already not that easy and some people like to main swap across the season to keep things fresh.

[@ragondo1]

I feel like there’s a middle ground that blizzard should strive for. In season 2 I went giga hard on alts because the hearing was faster. But in season 3 I couldn’t be bothered. Gear in a vacuum is super boring (main stat secondary stats aren’t interesting to engage with) and you are doing the exact same content. I could have done keys on my alt warrior. But it’s not like warrior changes greatly. It’s gonna feel the same way for the most part. Alting is fine, but alts should not be the focus of blizzards endgame content loop. It should exist for people who enjoy alting, but there should be incentives to having one character that you push to the max.

[@motisvaritia6045]

oh i actually know what they need to do, each item from the raid needs to have a special modifier that only amplifies the item in the raid, but doesnt in m+. so getting gear in raids will keep making the raid easier, but for m+ (and pvp) it doesnt matter since the raid amplifier doesnt work outside of the raid

[@daddysplinter4125]

Big ups whoever does the timetable thing. As a WarWithinWaitingRoom boi staying updated and watching for the memes, saves me so much time being able to skip anything healing or pvp related

[@mateuszb6915]

Corruption works really well with dragonflight. What gave us resistance? Wrathion’s black dragon cloak - just give us his and Seballian’s blessing to match the corruption resistance and bring the corruption back

[@alansadowski1360]

on the note of Cosmetic Power, how cool would it be if Ascendance for shamans looked like the the avatar State and all 4 elements surrounded the caster every time it procd or was activated.

[@Nickystr1x]

“Nooooo you can’t just make Grimrail Depot m+, the affixes will make it a nightmare!” “Hehe train go burrr”

[@popojaga7312]

I was on TGP hype train, but to be fair now, you can watch top teams push highest keys any push week, mdi is unique to the event has more variety of what routes and tricks teams will come up with

[@patwike3397]

Bringing back raids would be cool if it was like nighthold or old expac raids and then scaled them up more to our gear score like the old mythic+ dungeons.

[@popojaga7312]

Best torghast version was in beta, go wild with unlimited power, then they tuned down it and made mandatory grindfest

[@jinxero475]

The gear progression question for me comes down to this: when did you ‘feel’ like you were no longer getting stronger. For me, it was that first time I took tokens over gear from the vault. Making that decision, to me, was acknowledging I was done progressing my gear. Was there some RNG drop I could get for a single digit percentage increase out there, of course. But choosing tokens was tantamount to entering the ‘this feels like a job’ grinding phase. Now, when did I first make that decision; I think it was on week 6…

[@superninja4526]

We have Dratnos, Stratnos and Catnos this podcast

[@ztormur6504]

great episode guys. always look forward to the next one !

[@SupaChalupa793]

I've got a cook for nerfing RWF gearing. Combine heroic and mythic raid lockouts until end boss dies per region. Kill splits, teams get one chance at raid loot, and then bosses can be tuned for regular human levels of gear. Might have to adjust M+ gear in some way to go along with it, but if this was a temporary thing that changed when end boss died I think it'd be a huge benefit.

[@funnynikko]

I feel like Echo will be back for blood in the next MDI, but it is as Dorki and Maz says in the intro aswell, it was the greatest MDI ever, it was so competitive, I enjoyed every single match up . One small mistake could be a diffrence between victory and failure. Of the matches I watched during this weekend most of the teams that knocked out was to their own tiny screw ups/failures. Mandatory just played the Grand Finals flawless, and they won! They deserved the win.

[@raymondandsweetheart7150]

I Just want to know what happened in throne of tides.

[@carlosisraelsantana1040]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Ephwood1]

Why I hated rotating raids: I'm in a casual aotc guild that raids one day a week. I loved Castle Nathria, and was really excited to go back there in Shadowlands fated, and was not so excited about the others. Going in I didn't mind that we were gonna be playing the others though because at least I had the Nathria weeks to look forward to. Then I ended up needing to miss two raid days in the first six weeks, which just so happened to be the weeks that Nathria was up. Burnt out so hard I stopped playing until 2024, though ngl that was probably really good for my health...

[@davidmeehan1599]

The Shawshank Redemption Dorki pic is 10/10

[@loganboyd10]

Dratnos your Jailer joke actually murdered me

[@TeamFiraga]

Imagine Season 4 fated raid is like one area like Violet Hold and different bosses from all 3 raids come out of portals XD

[@Glidegamer]

An extra upgrade path at .5 patch each season with vault tokens giving a +3 ilvl upgrade each week would feel pretty good imo. 1-2 upgrade steps per item or something like that perhaps? Would last more or less entire season. 100% agree that Blizz should lean into cosmetic rewards. A phat weapon mog or set at 3k rating would push me to go for it, now i sit a 2900ish on two chars and not bothering.

[@nemek2082]

I actually would get back into mythic raiding if the last 2/few bosses that are always harder become aspirational. It would make CE more fun to get while not having the dread of wiping 200-400 times on the last few bosses for no other reason than the CE fos, at least now it would give something maybe worth pushing for. I was ok with the entire mythic being aspirational argument, but I think this is just better because the first few bosses in mythic have always been super fun to me, the last few were always ehhh, too much wiping to be fun and burned me out for months afterwards every time I got back for a CE tier.

[@mattstreet4104]

I love how Dratnos calls that its episode 15 right at rhe start. He really is thst guy who just KNOWS the number

[@Pharenon]

Hey guys! Love the pod! For a season 4, what would you think of a "speed running" approach instead of boosting up the level of old raids? So keeping the raids where they are now, but letting the guilds test out some awesome tech for how to speedrun a raid from start to finish. I know this was super popular in Classic Vanilla era, with some of the tech people did in BWL for example. So let raids be "easy" for the top tier guilds, but have a focus on who can put in the fastest run in Season 4 Raiding, and maybe give an achievement or smth for having the best clocked raid or maybe even like a small tournament to close out the season and let guilds show off the awesome tech?

[@richardhadley7262]

Random idea, could ramping mythic gear from 4 upgrades to the full 8 help with the end of patch power? Gear ramp would be higher, but the ability to out gear bosses would be better. With crests being capped week to week would keep RWF at the same levels. Just a thought.

[@mehet__]

Re: Vault Tokens, i think Megasett has a great cook about rolling keys for tokens of merit late in the season, maybe there is something comparable raiders would cash in for

[@dtrgilmore]

The timestamps for these videos are goated

[@tommy4862]

In the world of WOW podcasts: The king is dead, long live the king!

[@Xadanar]

I know PoddyC members arent game devs but would be interesting to get their takes on some kind of new affix rotation. Maybe not specific Affix designs but general themes they would like to see. Maybe have a few guests with some suggestions.

[@Nightstalker314]

deactivating upgrades on heroic and myth track in the first 2 weeks might help with the raid tuning.

[@chiefputty]

Ramping crest drops fix the RWF problem and the 4th alt three months into the patch problem. Tokens for tertiaries is a great idea.

[@Mister_Vintage]

I think the issue with RWF is that the raid is tuned for you having near max gear. Meaning when us plebs go at it (with near max gear) we don't have a chance against wall bosses. Where before, when the RWF was tuned for 10+ ilvl lower gear, it allowed the pleb an opportunity to "outgear" some bosses. Which is what people are used to and that also making farm *FAR* more appealing.

[@hellsbolt]

Echos dominance in dungeon tournaments might be the greatest of any esport lol it’s crazy how much they won

[@gollese]

Aye, Sonicfox been like that in netherrealm games, especially Mortal kombat.

[@ThatOhhio]

To the point at ~1:14:00, other games that allow you to customize spell effects usually have the option to disable other players spell alterations (so they will only look like the default visual). Seems like a simple fix to the problem. Another example being Overwatch, they allow you to basically turn off skins (At least they did in OW1, haven't played 2 much) so even if an opponent is using a skin, you simply see the default skin.

[@carteks1]

The best way I can think of throttle RWF raiders power. Reduce splits. And make a smoother power curve for all players equally is this. Stop dropping tier gear in the raid. And stop dropping it in the vault. Let one piece of tier come from AOTC/ksm. And let every other piece of tier come from the catalyst. Get one charge on week one. So week one if you get AOTC or KSM you can have your two piece. Everyone can. And no one can get more. Week 2. You can get an extra charge. Week 3 you get another charge. Everyone can have 4 piece on week 3. Tune the rwf around the 2 piece. So when everyone else (including rwf) gets 4 pc it will all naturally be nerfed. Then have the final 2 bosses from mythic drop gear that can go one lvl higher 5/5 myth while all other loot in the game can only go 4/4. Including from the vault even if you kill final two bosses that week. Incentive to kill final boss. Smooth power curve. Natural nerfing Less splits.

[@kirst3925]

That pirate tooth is just too good😂

[@noamz9527]

Path of Exile is a mostly solo game, so they can make much crazier cosmetics without interfering with other players gameplay.

[@stoutside]

titanforging worked well week on week you would naturally be upgrading the raid teams ilvl, created re clear rewards not only from the current tier but from older tiers mixing 2sets with 4 sets, every piece of content had reward potential, social content was worth doing and my friend group wasnt dependent on how similar their skill level was to mine, it also blurred the line of ilvl gatekeeping into group content which allowed for players to creep into harder content even if pug groups had strict/ ridiculous entry requirements.

[@voodoo1069]

As someone that mainly plays the game for M+ and doesn't do a ton of raiding any more I don't care about being geared up instantly. I care about being able being able to hit comparable gear levels and around a the same rate as a raider because I want to feel competitive in my own content and not feel like I'm running around with a bum leg because I'm not doing all content at the same level. This was a huge problem in pvp and why they started getting that increase in ilvl so their gear would be bis for their content. Anyone that thinks m+ isn't comparable in challenge as raid just are not pushing high enough. Also m+ players generally invest a vastly larger amount of time in their content then a raider ever could or would be willing to do.

[@vustag6325]

the problem with vault tokens is that raiders stop needing the vault much sooner than m+ers due to them having access to so much more endgame loot. That means raiders would have also have access to more tokens and the gear gap would further increase.

[@Sadistichippo]

Raid has a weekly lockout, M+ doesn’t. So M+ has far more potential loot than raid as you can potentially pug M+ 16h a day every day if you wanted, but you can’t really pug mythic

[@Pro-Zylver]

@42:00 max was spot on to what they're doing lol

[@OMGITSJAD]

Max loves saying dobby as much as possible

[@Kozilak]

To speak to your final question here. When I was in a non CE guild with my friends ( this was the reason I left to pursue CE/BDG) we pulled FA 15 times after killing maiden, and just decided nope. We aren't this kind of guild. The next tier we Killed Aggramar and didn't even bother pulling Argus. I doubt we were or are alone in that. There's got to be tons of guilds who get to bosses like tindral and just nope the fuck out of there.

[@popojaga7312]

Legendaries being cosmetic cool effects would be the best way

[@crutchfield7231989]

I would absolutely love to see sick transmog like spell effects recolors or designs from last 2 bosses mythic this would also help the mplus people who don't want to raid and just want gear from raid because then they wouldn't have to worry about the last 2 bosses

[@enigmabis.]

I really hope max is correct about the hype for 10.2.6

[@Lionelhutz-attorney-at-law]

Same.. at LEAST tell me the freaking date. Give me something to look forward to. I'm so tired of content creators getting news before civilians

[@DaBombDiggidy88]

Tournament realms should just have a set Start/End date and a cap on time available to practice. Would reduce burnout and get everyone on a level playing field.

[@Tkzlol]

Baffles my mind why blizzard doesn’t want to use banger transmogs as a reward. Seeing how loved the challenge mode gear is you’d think this would be an nobrainer to add into mythic plus or later raid bosses. Hell, ffxiv ultimates are incredibly hard, but people still do them all the time. Just for that sweet epeen of having the glamour.

[@Tensooni]

I feel like its possible for them to make a TGP-like format for an MDI event. Name a key, give groups a certain amount of time to get a good time on the board, like they do for time trials. Slowest team is dropped.

[@cd2194]

Im ngl bro, i watch alot of esports espescially in cs and the tgp format is probably the most dogshit i have ever seen. How do you expect competitors to compete for 6+ hours and for viewers i cant imagine watching the whole thing when in theory only the last hour actually means anything. Watching tgp is like watching a keypushing stream but no comms or personality

[@radenkovic2856]

​@@cd2194for me it depends a lot on the casters. Since I discovered tettles and dratnos (and also trell but he isn't casting) they are just the goats for me. I also watched the first rfw streams from liquid whenever they were casting. I enjoy the humor of dratnos especially. But when I hear meeix casting I instantly alt + f4. And it's not because she's a women (before some white knight comes in) because I enjoy naguras casting. I just don't enjoy the things she's talking about and she's kinda the eiya for pve content for me. They both seem like they lack game knowledge. And in eiyas case, she at least is only the host and gotten much more knowledgeable over the years. But I couldn't enjoy listening to meeix so far.

[@cd2194]

@@radenkovic2856 i just think mdi is more like cs format where tgp is a whole tour de france. Even if the games are sometimes not competetive it is not a bad thing since its seeded double elim bracket so ofc some games will be less competetive

[@radenkovic2856]

@@cd2194 ye I understand where you're coming from. Just wanted to give my point of view of why I am watching at certain points.

[@RalphEvangelista]

On the note of tertiaries, i played a shaman in season 2 and by the time my guild got to forgotten experiments and called me in to heal it i had 15% avoidance. I could stand near the boss AOE and only drop to 80% health. Those stats fucking BREAK the game, and i just picked up playing my shaman again and getting rid of my avoidance gear feels so bad.

[@noamz9527]

With the way mythic raiding is now, where it is realm locked at start and id locked all the time, if the rewards there were more important then they are right now, it would feel really bad for casual players like me. If you want to to increase the importance of mythic raid's rewards you also need to remove these limitations on geared casual players (who knows the mechanics) from progressing it weekly in pub groups.

[@Rural-ds4ut]

not sure if you know, but mythic realm locks are going away in the war within when cross-realm guilds are introduced

[@luckdrivenluu6429]

I really liked gonzos take, More animations and special effect stuff would be sweet to move towards.

[@Tenezill]

the upgrade system in S3 is great, this allows me to play multiple alts, 1 we need in the raid and 1 i want to push keys with. so i can work on my CE and push keys on a different role. i rather have time to play a different game than be forced to play wow all day every day to be able to get CE

[@wowsew]

Good cast y'all. Here for my weekly comment for vault

[@SargeantBlue]

I hope it's not all dragonflight dungeons, I'm not walking back into halls of infusion

[@ZKrinny]

Do you think MDI would be better for competitors if they gave you like 3 months to practice instead of 2 weeks?

[@timothyduran2381]

To address the gearing question I want gear now and immediately I have always hated gearing it's not fun for me. All I want to do is grind out keys.

[@moireldsc]

another great episode!

[@linaori]

Whatever happens, having 3 raids available at the same time will mean trinket farming hell...

[@steelzeppelin]

Dratnos' beard lookin great.

[@handsomebear.]

They should just *remove all affixes.* The argument that they _"make dungeons feel different"_ is horseshit and the only reason people are repeating it is because they imagine that it would be boring without them...but the people who don't enjoy running dungeons beyond their rewards are hating doing them with the affixes as well...and those of us who actually just enjoy running dungeons, who enjoy the gameplay of our chosen classes and/or specs, who enjoy doing the mechanics and getting better at it and/or learning doing it on alts with different utility, we enjoyed spamming dungeons long before m+ as a whole was even a thing. _Aka the difficulty scaling is more than enough to change how dungeons feel and how you approach them for those of us who _*_>actually< enjoy dungeons._* Also they already removed *_the only affix that >actually< made the dungeons different,_* which was *Teeming* _(they could've just stopped duplicating the lieutenant trash mobs and it was perfectly fine)._ So...they should just grow a spine and remove *all affixes* at this point, including Tyrannical/Fortified. Maybe keep them as an optional for some additional tmog reward or someshit but having them be non-optional is just cancer with no upside _(except Bursting, as an Rdudu I love bursting :V)._

[@anba9499]

fated is an incompetence relic

[@kellanjones5588]

If they did the vault token for tertiary thing maybe they just turn off the tertiaries when the next season starts. Yes it usually doesn't feel great to get weaker but if you're doing new content and replacing it anyways I think it might be okay

[@deadclicks]

You gotta applaud corruption for being able to come up in so of these episodes in a positive light

[@xRip666x]

drink everytime Max says "cook"

[@SimonCoulton]

The only way it is possible for them to slow things down is to remove the RNG nature from everything and make gearing deterministic. I’ve run Rise at least 40 times between my shaman and Paladin. Yet to see a Tyrstone. Things are much different when you’re pugging…

[@orsikbattlefate3976]

well just to say my piece on this, if you're only killing gnarlroot once he/she didnt getting bis gear, he/she might of gotten to cap ilvl, but i know i play WW and like 90% of my gear comes from mythic track raiding, and if he/she is only killing mythic Gnarlroot, than he/she isnt even opening up a vault slot worth of mythic track loot in his/her vault

[@Ozeneu10]

I am a Torghast apologist. I think it would've been great if they hadn't made it mandatory. Doing it for the challenge and cosmetics like Twisting Corridors and Jailer's Gauntlet were pretty awesome. Having to do 2 runs every week on every character for the first 2 seasons was the opposite of awesome. And that the first 2 seasons it was such a hassle, and annoying and repetitive just left a bad taste in people's mouths and only remember it for that part.

[@gapplebees9295]

Is 10.2.6 bringing Solo queue rbg's???

[@Gowu26]

I'm only M+ player around 24 key levels. Every week I'm filling my vault with 3 options. Season is almost over (in 5 or 4 weeks probably) and I'm far far far away from getting my BIS max ilvl items. I don't agree that with current loot system for M+ the gear acquisition is too fast. And Dratnos point also reminded me something, in season 2 of DF there was BIS trinket for Warlock from raid without which you just should not even play the game. After 3 months of farming it and not getting one, I just logged of for rest of the season.

[@radenkovic2856]

I hate that nowadays everything needs an incentive to be done. Like is there nobody out there that plays the game for just the fun gsmeplay? I get to +25s on a main and play a few alts each season in keys and I just enjoy doing big damage. Or healing. Like I have no ambitions to get a title but only doing 20s is kinda boring cause everything dies so fast and then you don't do big damage :D if I play arcane and the pack is dead before my cds are over I'm just sad😂

[@zumzici1234]

Gearing fast is good for the game, it's just bad for raiding.

[@aidanth9264]

There is but 1 thing I don't like about gearing, after fully gearing 3 characters to 488.. I wanted to try something new and it was a total disaster and unfun challenge to grind it yet again! On my characters I have stored 3k+ crests that I have no place to use at all(already done with tmogs, even some lfr->normal). I cant give it to my new alts to skip all the time gating needed to gear(not to mention skill drop as season ends). Its not interesting at all to grind 11 keys to gear up nor its useful experience to do 16-20 runs. Just give players an option i.e. achievement - gear 3-4-5 characters to 480 ilvl and unlock transfer crests option. Even divided it by 2(4 is too much imo). Little to no players that aim to play at 3300+ enjoy to grind low level keys. p.s. or add a stacking buff, like the one with legendary quest.. That would add 50% more crests drop each time you gear up your alt to certain ilvl. So that players would skip useless grind phases quicker. If blizzard started to respect player time even a little bit. As you make gear obsolete each patch. And would make professions go obsolete in the next phase of wow addons "cycle".

[@tristan7708]

IMO i dont mind big ilv jumps season to season, you wanna a rewarding experience at season drop, if ppl quit and dont wanna farm thats ok. I do think there should be either crests tiers that unlock either weekly or clearing content to incentivize farm a bit and backload crest ilv without capping the amount which feels bad. think ilv jumps between raid bosses with more drops of loot a boss would help raid feel rewarding for its commitment compared to m+, but clearing the last bosses should be the goal for the best loot (like last 3)

[@Weslicus]

Imagine if every season you could run visions to farm a corruption you could place on a piece of gear HOLY!

[@MrBarrett50cal2]

What about having a crucible raid, kinda like how Arenas are in Monster Hunter where its just youre group and the boss in an arena and you just go ballistic

[@rockersheart]

Cooking. Let's say we cap rewards from keys at +10 and we cap the total dungeon pool at +20. With rewards being only at 10, I'd say most people could make that a goal but for the high end players you go hard. 11 to 20 is just hard as nails. Very few like .01% players can complete a 20. So once you do it's like damn that feels like a good accomplishment! To the point where you might need full bis mythic gear and can't complete a single 20 til like a week before a patch. That's how hard it could be and for us casuals. Maybe after a few heroics we could do +10 and just farm those for the patch

[@Vanthil13]

I think to improve the MDI Experience for the PLAYERS not the watchers -- they should shorten the amount of time people have to prepare. The big problem is you feel you need to prepare for weeks, hours on hours every day, because there are some teams that that is literally their Day Job and you'd feel you can't compete with them if you don't. I think something like open the tournament realms to see the affixes/dungeon pool on Thursday, Friday, then tournament on Saturday Sunday. Or do something like Saturday is the only Practice day you get and Sunday is the tournament day and it occurs over 4 weekends. Change all the dungeons and affixes for the next week so people can't prepare again ahead of time. Rinse and repeat till done. This will absolutely lead to more scuffed runs which might honestly be more enjoyable to watch but it also means less time investment from the participants and less competitive edge to those who play WoW as their Day Job. It just opens the playing field more and prevents burnout from the teams.

[@havtor007]

One of the problems with that is that it makes it easier for echo to be even better then the rest. They used to have less time to practice and missing just a little bit of time then messed the teams up hard.

[@godded]

I strongly agree with the Ra-Den (sans gear) approach. Lei Shen was a great heroic penultimate boss. Ra-Den (although arguably easier than Lei-Shen) was purely an aspirational boss (especially with the 30 pulls left achievement e.g. no wipe). Edit: Also a really cool unique transmog as a reward is not unheard of as we see in PvP. WoW PVE is moving into a compentitve direction anyway, at last at the top end. Gear progressions shouldn't be the aspiration at that point. Look at the 2.4k rating enchants and Gladiator mounts. The people who have the chops and dedication will seek out the rewards just to show them off in Valdrakken, which btw was one of the main reasons to raid back in Vanilla. Was Dreadnaught Armor good for a warrior? Yes, but what really mattered was that it looked f-ing awesome. The only reason i bothered to PvP again after many years in S1 DF was that the 1.8k rating variation of the warrior set is by far the best looking.

[@crazyphoenickss]

For fated raiding they should bring back a raid from a previous expansion and make it relevant. Like, for example, with S4 fated raid I'd love for them to bring back Black Rock Foundry and then tune it to S4 Fated gearing and update it. That would be very sick, but that would be very sick of them to do that every S4 fated of every expansion: just bring back a way older raid from long before. What do you guys think?

[@MrChiiZzel]

W INTRO HOLY, I'M ALREADY IN

[@kylechermak7092]

1:20:00 Dork is exactly right. I'm not trying to be rude, but anyone in the HoF or higher world saying that Tindral is "piss easy" is out of touch. Don't get me wrong- Max is right in saying the boss is a joke compared to its prenerf state. Except the version of Tindral that Echo and Liquid killed would be a 1000+ pull boss for every HoF guild and God knows how many pulls it would require for every guild after that. I'm in a world 1300ish guild right now progressing Tindral. Our best pull is like 20%. The boss is nuts. It's doable, but it's nuts. You can and WILL get one-shot by Beams, Dispell overlaps, and not soaking seeds over and over and over again. Now, you could say "well you're just not good enough to get CE, then".... Except, historically, every mythic end boss not named The Jailer has been killed by around ~1500 guilds each patch. Additionally, I could jump up to a world 500 guild (I have plenty of friends who raid there) and they would say the same thing. Even *with* the nerfs, the boss is still tough.

[@WraghEU]

I think pase of gearing should be balanced around time which players play weekly within their individial skill. For example - if season takes 6months then players should be 90+% bis geared in about a month if thats the time to progress to last boss of current raid for them, if you play 1 raid night a week or lets say run m+ for 4h a week you should take 3-4 months to get YOUR bis (at individual skill level), if you are suffering dad who plays 30min a week then dont expect to get to bis maybe even at the end of 6months but thats goes with time you are able to spend on game. Talking about mains ofc. My personal take - doing 4-6h a week on m+ and stopping around "i have all portals" level after ~8-12 weeks

[@TwinerJack]

Want my mistweaver mists to be bloody red! Just like when you play pvp against one!

[@billflynn9962]

100% if they make fated so you can solo heal and blast boses.. that would be super fun.. just like in Cata/ older raids where you get geared enough to just have fun... make a raid M+ where it's timed and you try to get as far as possible for better loot/rewards... as far as the gearing system, i love the new system. being able to get tier/ other gear that is NECESSARY to raid is someting that players should get in the first week.. make crafting even faster, make it so we can customize our tier sets with stats like crafting gear.. let us CUSTOMIZE our gear and give it to us very early so we can go have fun.. grinding for gear is not fun

[@zwabTheRealOne]

I said to the missus "Well my love, im gonna go get settled into bed, newest PoddyC just dropped". She said "Why are you calling it that?" I said "You have no rizz you wouldn't understand".

[@FishKnight]

Very right on borrowed power / non-evergreen content... even something as simple as tier sets, if its mechanically bad for a spec I dont want it, but if its good it still kind of sucks because they probably just throw it in the trash anyway

[@blaaargnn5619]

a thought on the 1:05 comment of old gear being completely irrelevant, if you look at like wotlk, you could absolutely clear 25hc ICC with full togc 25hc gear, and thats a whole patch/raid behind, it should still be viable doing new stuff with max old stuff imo