We Built an AI to PROVE that Win Rates Don't Matter

[@ann18o96]

I'm a developer and I have a damn well idea how much effort that must've been! Thank you for making it free! For once AI wasn't used to steal Art, take it apart and reassemble it for money. By the way in german on the loading screen it reads: "Overwolf genießt das Vertrauen führender Ersteller und Marken" Is it supposed to mean content creator? I think I'd use "Influencer", it's Denglish all the way cause we just steal all the modern internet words. And even then "führender" is kinda a weird word to say they are big, idk. "etablierter" maybe instead?

[@BlazenMikay]

So why do I face people with 1 million mastery and barely have 1 champ with 100k mastery in rank?

[@inLogiex]

If they have 1m and they are low elo, it means they have mechanics and no brain.

[@Tonylaces]

Or they play a team dependent champ and they play with sub-humans 60% of games 😂

[@kuban2356]

@@Tonylaces If you are good with team dependent champ you will climb, slower but you will.

[@aice336]

@@Tonylaces keep telling yourself that

[@Tonylaces]

@@kuban2356 I know and I do climb, improving every season, but its way harder than use Kayne or Eve jungle and 1v9 every game (I don't really like to play jungle so I'll stick to my champs :D )

[@brotendo]

Props to building the tool, I guess. But you're super wrong about a lot of things. Mastery score does not equal mastery on a champion lol. Look at how many million mastery point Zed, Kaisa, Katarina, etc. players there are in Iron and Bronze lmao. It just means they've played A LOT OF GAMES on them, not that they've mastered them. Secondly, you referenced Lolalytics, but it's surprising that you missed out on a huge and crucial piece of data that the website actually offers--win rate deltas. To anyone that doesn't know, the win rate delta on Lolalytics is calculated by averaging the win rate on a champion for the BEST PLAYERS OF THAT CHAMP, then comparing it to the win rates of that champ at the selected tier. This means if you take the best Katarina player and say they have a 56% win rate, and you take your average gold or plat Katarina player and say they have a 49% win rate, the delta is 7. This means Katarina is a DIFFICULT CHAMPION. If you take the best Amumu players and they average a 53% win rate, and the average plat Amumu has a 51% win rate, the delta is 2. DEAD EASY CHAMPION. So it's not that win rates don't matter--in fact win rates kinda tell you everything you need to know about how difficult a champion is when looking at the overall win rate AND the win rate delta.

[@aquiledelrosa]

I guess you are both right and wrong at same time, yeah theres ppl that will braindead while playing but repetition leads to learning, they may never learn macro thats the reason of stuck. And in this equation we need to genuine ponder how many of them are mentally incapable (mental imparement, low iq, etc...). I will say about myself here, averege IQ (tested) low EQ (so somethings makes sense) had played for 2 seasons (2y) with ads like twitch vayne ez, not good macro but i could go to platinum,diamond after 5y playing averaging silver/gold, only when i hyper focused on a limited pool, yet i didnt learned the tricks / math etc..., theres plenty of variables, but if you genuine want to improve, is usefull to know the tool i think

[@flowbie-1336]

That kinda flew over you really. Champ mastery is only one of over 50 diff skills/metrics/parameters in the equation of player skill, but behind fundamentals being #1, champ mastery is a very close 2nd, and you took it way too literally like most of the world sadly

[@brotendo]

@@flowbie-1336 Nah it sounds like it went over YOUR head lmfao. You must be below gold.

[@yowu69]

@@brotendo he never said mastery was the only determinant of a champion's success in winrate, he said that on *average* there were certain statistical advantages. You are pseudointellectual, this tool seems to be quite amazing, as it will provide statistical data on draft compositions. Yes the winrate delta is a thing but it still doesn't show draft compatibility, unless u want to manually search each combination this tool seems very efficient and insightful. You aren't as smart as you might think, writing 5 paragraphs to explain something so simplistic while sounding arrogant is laughable. I started playing 9 months ago and mainly played soraka and ended emerald last split with a 24 mastery on soraka, and it is plain obvious when someone doesn't know the limits to their champion. But you don't seem like the perceptive type. Also u can be good at a champion yet be low elo. League is a strategy intensive game, it is not nearly as mechanically dependent as shooter or fighter games, which is why some may be stuck low elo. As they simply don't understand the goals of the game and events that should be happening.

[@yowu69]

@@flowbie-1336 every challenger player would tell someone to have a low champion pool, he is just too slow to realize mastery is a factor, too focused on disproving others than focusing on the objective truth.

[@ren6140]

Im an undergrad in data science and recently got into league, and had a similar idea. Because I still don't know sh*t about the game I thought it would be neat to have a tool that looked at your opponents' items and itemized for you. I already understood very early on that focusing on a few champions and learning them would ultimately be better, but I still struggle a lot picking which build to go for. It'd be thrilled to see follow up vidro that covered more optimizable aspects of league.

[@pedropimenta896]

My tip for begginers: train your fundamentals. Every champions has to Last Hit, Position, avoid enemy Line of Sight...

[@myselfski]

i really like the idea of the project, maybe i could help you game-wise and provide some theory and we'll see how your program develops?

[@ann18o96]

@@ren6140 Items are changing a lot in league for my taste. But I'd recommend checking out the common builds for your role. Then look at your champs builds and why they work. Lastly there are some situational items like qss that you want to know the use for. You can also create item pages with builds for specific champions. I know it's a lot to learn with all the items and different effects, but honestly it's part of the skill to know and pick the best ones for your specific game. I'm not sure an app could do as good as a player that's > gold.

[@Olenderman]

Damn. You sold that to me, I’m testing that stuff

[@KajiKintsugi]

Between this and Xpetu's master thesis it feels like we are entering a bold new era of league statistics.

[@goldensea03idk51]

OK, whoever is writing the script for these videos and doing the voice over. Keep doing whatever the fuck you’re doing I love this shit

[@simonhradetzky7055]

Nice Job, as a data Scientist and LoL Lover, I appreciate your effort very much! Thank you, for providing the AI for free!

[@ivantheturtle3701]

Shoes are a fine delicacy, I don't see how having to eat them would be a downside

[@revivedsoul1099]

What he referring to is champs and game amount which then the WR varies is. Sone champ be getting 1% increase by more games while others get high as 5%. Playing around enemy team rather focus on lane is fair point, but also team. Think , team, enemy more important than just 1 lane. Its bit difficult stat to find. Guess those inbuilt wr checker is handy, but never seen those i believe in champ select. Know your champ and macro, you be good most of the time. But comp knowledge also a nice plus. Interesting video. Dope that you even made app for it. Make sense.

[@mellongod1874]

used this tool for my climb to masters this split, and ive always been the type to just pick whats good in the comp out of my champ pool and was able to utilize the app pretty much to its fullest by getting a 70% wr to masters at the end of last split

[@mellongod1874]

like i had games where i DID first time a champ and still 1v9 cause how good the pick was in the specific comp

[@ivantheturtle3701]

I have not tried it yet but one way I could see it fail is not taking into account ally mastery as well (which is sadly impossible since the lobby anonymity changes). I'm afraid nothing is going to stop my soloq teammates from first timing a champ in ranked 😭

[@NasEjos]

Love Itero, been using it for months now and not once have i felt like my champion was not playable / useless. Mostly great, sometimes good, but never bad :D 100% recommended

[@Deathstroke24120]

Conclusion : If a champion you already master a lot if meta, abuse it. If none of the champs you master is meta, choose your favorite champ where you feel most comfortable with:))

[@rajuraiden6323]

Instant like when Yasuo is mentioned 🎉

[@ann18o96]

"I didn't even know you could play Yuumi wrong" xD I guess... maybe if you build normal health items but never attatch to the carries?? I guess that would be wrong. But who does that xD

[@kogmawmain8872]

Well one thing you can do as Yuumi is block skill shots which I have seen some people not do.

[@arigatameiwaku]

@@kogmawmain8872 because if it's a stun she can't reatach for some time. So she can only block non stun ones.

[@Temhy]

I Was actually going to make this if someone else wasn't so thank you for saving the effort

[@MagicalBirb]

As a guy who touched on programming, i tip my hat for you people

[@ixxxy_8639]

oh my god I love your editor so much much much ❤❤

[@shindigfreak5277]

Oh, not doublelift asserting the wrong again!

[@JimJPoggers]

I get the point of the ahri yasuo comparison but they didn't take into account the champion play rate/main rate ahri has about 7% pick rate, and yasuo has about 11% pick rate. The statement ahri loses in a vacuum but wins outside the vacuum is true, but the premise that the yasuo ahri matchup winrate is significant is hurt by the fact that on average yasuo players have more mastery than ahri players (based on pick rates for the patch) the 2.6% in favour of yasuo is insignification, every ahri main knows the yasuo matchup is a skill matchup.

[@ArkeniusTV]

Pick rate means yasuo is more popular, it doesnt mean its more mained

[@JimJPoggers]

@@ArkeniusTV agreed but a popular champion tends to but not always have more mains. the real metric riot uses internally according to riot august is 'champion depth' (how often the champion is played by the same people on a given patch) unfortunately riot doesn't release this statistic so we don't have much else to go off for it.

[@nojaodoggo2896]

But with mastery examples we see, Katarina even mastered has 51% wr meanwhile Nunu has more than 52% that gives an idea of in wich champions you should master.

[@OnlyTidus]

Yuumi mains are duo with their daddy 😂

[@keanu3260]

Daddies

[@Mario-mw3hb]

What an incredible video 👏👏👏

[@undo9498]

Winrate=ballancing list for riot if its under 50% its getting buffed if above 50% nerfed

[@chienanh3732]

*cough* old Evelynn *cough*

[@vinzer72frie]

Its easy to prove winrate is meaningless, the game is team based winrate only works in games where you alone can turn the outcome of the match

[@o0_Karim]

I main Aphelios with 2m mastery points who is one of the HARDEST champions in LOL and also a champ with the lowest ADC win rate. I can confirm your thoughts, he is so powerful the rate he can OP any other ADC just if you MASTERED him cause he is one of the most difficult champs if not the top difficult one in my opinion. My winrate with him higher than the known rates by 7-8%, thats because i spent a lot of time losing with him at the beginning, but now I believe if I excluded my learning phase games and counted only the late ones I guess my win rate will be higher than 10% above the average Aphelios winrates.

[@crooked53]

2:26 nunu has low win rate with low mastery for when people int with it

[@ChannelAxiS]

Wr matters... Let's say there's a champion that is pickabble in 80% of the games has 7 build types that can built up from 1 core item has aoe CC true damage 2 stun gapclosers % damage and a spamabble almost medium range ability that reset's cd after it get's hit negates damage scaling by armor/mr + base and ofc 1 taps the adc without items and kills a renekton while being 2 levels down... and then there's lee sin for an example you cannot blind it... Killing an adc next to a support is a pain if you're even and the moment you get close to renekton you either precast ult to not get w oneshot comboed or you don't go in at all xd

[@JimJPoggers]

The only winrate that matters is your winrate xD

[@DemonTom]

Brother! So true.

[@ThatsOurRobert]

Honestly counter picks and mastery points are close to meaningless 99% of the time. OTP's that are actually looking into their stats and see what they did wrong in their previous games would be way more ideal. You are generally in a 1vs9 situation most of the time and knowing what move to make in a losing situation would help way more. Yes other champions on your team can benefit you, but you are not in control what they do. So you honestly can't rely on what they do in terms of their kit.

[@neon_chill2623]

Below 47 winrate isn't good and everythings above 47 winrate is based on your skills. You can win with below 47 winrate sometimes when team is fine or luck is on you but it doesn't mean that champ is good on player's skills. Moba games are always unbalance because they have different types of champ, legends or heros. If you are playing for master the champ that below 47 winrate, you don't need to worry about winrate.

[@Gosuuya]

when i was 100k Kayn Mastery, i thought it was a lot of points. After reach half million, i think 100k mastery isn't enough to call someone "Master". A lot of players have 100k mastery on random champions from drafts or arams.

[@taibeo1212]

Sound good

[@lb-zm8kd]

low mastery yuumi would have wr affected by literal bots to sell iron smurfs

[@strongporco7670]

Honestly, mastery don't tell that much, just tell the guy had a plenty of time to play that specific champion, on Normals, Ranked or even ARAM. There's a lot of +1kk mastery players in low elos, for example, and they're there for a lot of different reasons. Winrates mather, but you need to consider others factors too, like pickrate, the meta, impacts from the last patch, counters who got nerf, items that are strong or efficient in gold, and even more aspects... You just can't see one number and ignore the real reason why this number is high/low Good edit as always, but I don't agree with a lot of points.

[@talhabora5408]

Good work 👍

[@player5969]

Those are called lucky champs

[@pwnwin]

Ok this stat you just gave is fkked. There is autocorrelation. Higher elo people tend to have more mastery levels in a lot of champions.

[@Basichamp]

Nice, but I have 600K Masterypoints on Vi, I went straight from Gold to Iron in a month ;( The Champion IS Gigatrash right now..

[@hejdy1337]

Ur trash my friend

[@AMindofPower]

6:26 💀

[@MOTOR-er1vg]

first of its not a surprise that winrate isnt better than winrate + additaional information. That is just the most obvious conclusion. Secondly, if you enjoy this game and want to continue enjoying it delete this program right now. every time a computer solves parts of the game for us players you do what? Dind Ding, take part of the game away, it happened to Hearthstone, Tft and probably every other game where computers can calculate the meta. So as impressive as this seems to be, this is the kind of shit that will kill the fun of playing this game.

[@g3rajz]

Yeah im a Sylas OTP and atm hes S tier but.... Id say B tier. I hate em. Sylas is strong unless... U go againts abunch of tanky BullS high damage tanks. You'll never kill them but theyll kill u. Yes items. Yes i know. But the time it takes for u to get ur 3 tanky Ap bruiser items. Ur enemy adc is fed, top si feed and they will stunnyou for 4 sec kill u all bc it took for ever for ur power to come online. I mean hes good but not always

[@poom323]

Most of the time meta in this game is more like "the easiest way to get win", which usually mean more likely to win with less pratice. Many time, the best champion to secure the win has quite low winrate, because it require more practice and most people give up before mastered.

[@hgamerking4155]

yes mastery help u win more but still if a champion win rate is lower then it means that the avg playing this champ will give u this % to win if u are a 1 trick u will win more but u will confess that its harder then if u play other higher winrate champs we seen that in worlds psg went for confort but picked nigative win rate champs and decided there experirnce will cancel it but it didnt happen

[@mathiasandersen3762]

This and Coachless will be a revolution leading us into a new era of league, where people actually understand statistics, and more importantly has the proper tools work with.

[@abhisheknaithani3647]

K sure😂