We can't keep letting Hollywood get away with this nonsense...

[@RyomenAyeni225]

The “both sides are the same” argument overall will forever feel stupid to me and the fact that these movies have to exaggerate the other side to even the playing field proves it to me

[@volodymyrbilyk555]

This argument is also mostly oversimplified bullshit all the time. Because why bother contextualizing things or presenting proper perspectives

[@ovahlord1451]

fax I'll never forgive bioshock infinite for pulling the same shit, it ruined the game for me

[@ssjbargainsale]

​@@ovahlord1451i still cant get over how disappointing Inifnite was. I just wanted a good Bioshock 3

[@qwerqwer-rt8wm]

​@@ovahlord1451 i didn't know it did that, did bioshock forget its own point? wtf lol.

[@eyerstrix]

I also immediately read that and thought of Bioshock Infinite

[@LovingSoul61]

The message is to marginalized people: "don't try. It doesn't matter how right you are. We know you're right. And you will lose anyway. Because we are more powerful than you."

[@wrestlinganime4life288]

There are moments where it feels like they're right. I've always tried to believe that all of africa would one day be truly independent free,less corrupt corrupt and in charge of its resources then reality hit. However after Assad fall in Syria...maybe..maybe

[@bezgual3408]

@@wrestlinganime4life288he fell to US backed isis forces so it’s not like it’s all about freedom there suddenly 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@WillElMagnifico]

"you under estimate my power" ​@@bezgual3408

[@efef6853]

The powers that SHOULD NOT BE are always waging a psychological WAR trying to keep people in a perpetual state of powerlessness.

[@efef6853]

The powers that SHOULD NOT BE are always WAGING a psychological WAR in order to keep people in a perpetual state of powerlessness.

[@IAmBrousse]

A french culture critic coined a term : the magneto syndrom, to concisely describe the trope of the well meaning villain turned genocidal maniac because of reasons (one cant possibly be in agreement on some level with a big bad)

[@ApexGale]

Shoutouts Bane having a point in the 3rd Dark Knight movie but because he also wants to blow up Gotham that somehow invalidates everything he ever said about how the system was corrupt

[@julianjpantoja4603]

​@ApexGale most batman villains are like this to the point that Mr Freeze, Ivy and Harley Quinn are barely even villains nowadays

[@TheSharkticon]

Magneto makes more sense once you realize that he is a mutant zionist, and was literally based on the founder of Likkud.

[@maggot_2]

Not le bolchegeek 💀

[@IAmBrousse]

@@maggot_2 definitely not the bolchegeek

[@KienDLuu]

The villain having a valid point is such a relevant issue this month though. LOL.

[@Mankam168]

Luigi = YES Marine = NO

[@Fuzzycuffsqt]

@@Mankam168 lets-a GO!!

[@zephshoir]

The neoliberal tendency in media to frame Rebellions and Revolutions as the same or worse than the oppressor and doing so by making the Villain be a key part of it. Lookup "Marvel Defenders of the Status Quo"

[@_FadedPolo_]

welcome to black culture. Welcome. Stay awhile

[@YukonBloamie]

My guy is gonna crab walk up a wall to escape prison and run for President because that is the stupid timeline we live in.

[@bennuredjedi]

What's funny is that both Greece and Rome had African Aristocrats that were natively born in those nations, that actually can be looked up. If people in places of influence stop hiding true historical accounts , then the ability to push past the ignorance of racism can begin.

[@SAINTMAURICE-tl7kb]

People know the truth! The lies will keep them warm for now. Darknes is soon coming 🕎

[@greendalf123]

Name one

[@stonedwizard0420]

All of them were North African, though, and more likely to be of Greco-Semitic descent rather than dark African. Historians are not hiding anything

[@Bluebelle51]

@@greendalf123 Septimius Severus for one, born to an aristocratic African family south of Tripoli, became emperor also assassinated, but most of them were during the "crisis" period There's also Maximinus Thrax, low born to an African farmer, worked his way up to Emperor, and was a mountain of a man, standing just under 7 feet tall, had a habit of punching horses to prove his strength Race wasn't a concept in Imperial Rome, so color was rather irrelevant, someone could also rise through the ranks, through military prowess or marriage

[@Bluebelle51]

To be fair, the idea of race as a concept isn't as old as Imperial Rome, that came later, mostly under British imperial rule

[@ajtaylor8750]

Denzel Washington's character basically had the "Watch the Party Die" mentality, and the movie was like "Nah that ain't gonna work for me, homie."

[@kloa4219]

That's why I think that complaints about media being "woke" are stupid. They're right-leaning/centrist because they kill off far-left analogues all time.

[@vincentparra349]

Which is so funny because the roman empire does literally fall

[@christianpaystrup4427]

@@vincentparra349That’s what I kept ranting about to my mom after I got out of the movie. Like, Denzel is right! Rome was built on oppression, and it deserves to and NEEDED to fall. But because they are using Rome to discuss America, it’d effectively say that we need to let America fall or whatever, so they pulled this neoliberal “Make Rome Great Again” speech for Paul Mescal to give about “returning to the past where Rome was good, actually,” out of their ass.

[@jsnaggz]

​@@christianpaystrup4427 It's clear which side the movie director chose to frame as "right" but it doesn't matter. As the guy you are replying to says, the empire does collapse. The son of Maximus delays the inevitable by stopping the revolution for a while. The speech at the end was amusing to me for many reasons. The young idealist killing a former slave who was branded by his own ancestor. Then telling the people who crucified the idealist's father's family 20 years ago that they can still make Rome great. No commentary on modern America necessary. 😂

[@thalmoragent9344]

​@christianpaystrup4427 Well, you could say nearly every country was built on oppression, the matter is in regards to how/what kind?

[@stepaion438eldon8]

Rome was a brutal slave society that was so socially stratified that the "civilized" ruling Patrician aristocracy that Macrinus was fighting against literally were legally encouraged to kill their children if they married the lower class. Also if you were a Freed slave the Roman government made sure that you were surveiled and corraled into specific neighborhoods in order to encourage them to become debt slaves since they weren't Roman citizens. There is a reason why Christianity was so popular among the unwashed masses that lived under that.

[@mr.uncleg5307]

Unwashed lol

[@qwerqwer-rt8wm]

because they didn't have the ability to identify cults would be my assumption.

[@pansepot1490]

You should cite some sources for your claims. “Brutal slave society” applies to all societies in antiquity, including the Jews. Read your Bible: there’s legislation on how to acquire slaves and how to treat them, which included the possibility to beat them within an inch of their life. AND the possibility for fathers to sell their daughters into (s3x) slavery (Exodus 21:7-11).

[@bajscast]

Rome was particularly bad about it. A man could sell his son, at any age, so long as he was unmarried, as a slave. If the father sold the son, and the son was freed, then the son would go back into possession of the father, and it sometimes got bad enough they had to make a law saying if it happened 3 times the freedom stuck

[@iseeundeadpeople9]

@@pansepot1490 Whataboutism is pathetic.

[@NoiseDayForCats0]

It was wild for a revenge movie to suddenly pivot to "No, I can change this vicious, conquering, slaving civilization from the inside because I'm secretly the Most Special Boy."

[@californiacombativesclub202]

I would blame Joseph Campbell

[@jarmandog413]

@@californiacombativesclub202as I often say, blame the transatlantic and blame Sarah Lawrence.

[@mburks3748]

Yup. Rome was heavily in the "meet the new boss, same as the old boss," syndrome. Every emperor was practically P Diddy.

[@murphybegood]

Ha ha ha love the video man! Gerard Crowe had me in lolololols. Gerard Crowe as you called him is actually an actor named Paul Mescal and you'll be happy to know he's from Kildare in Ireland 😂

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

Well, I already wasn't planning on seeing this new Gladiator movie, but now I have an intellectual sounding defense for why I didn't, lol

[@deankruse2891]

@@FishareFriendsNotFood972 this is not an intellectually sound diatribe

[@Tekknight007]

"Mufasa was lowkey running an apartheid" was too much for me to just hear on my lunch break. I need to watch this when I get home. 😅

[@elsamarks8477]

Rewatched it last night, I don’t notice in the old cartoon, but the remake it’s all I could see!!!

[@Doomer253]

Had me 💀😂

[@victor9]

Apartheid is not correct in the slightest. Lions and hyenas are not the same species. They are literal enemies in the real world, and it's not because of prejudice or any man-made concept like that. They are different species competing for the same resources and territory. You can reverse the roles, and the movie The Hyena King will have lions as the enemy and make perfect sense. The conflict in The Lion King is the most sensible conflict ever made, period.

[@GuntWastelander]

@@victor9none of that applies to the movie because the animals in it are nothing like their real world counterparts. They are as social and intelligent as humans, and can communicate with language. Kinda changes the dynamic

[@zzodysseuszz]

@@GuntWastelander so? The animals used were specifically used because of the real counterparts. Your argument is moot

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

I do love how these movies basically tell us "yes terrorism works" because the only reason the hero actually starts do their "ok we'll do reforms/give a speech to the people in power" phrase is when the villain has basically forced them to recognize the problem.

[@GregOrCreg]

Look at South Africa. Of course terrorism works. Obviously, the end of Apartheid or the Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland *should* have happened without terrorism, but the sad truth is that the establishment rarely if ever listen unless they're compelled to via violent rebellion. In the meantime, it's for the rest of us to put pressure on our elected officials to change things *without* anyone needing to lose their lives. Still, remember the expression "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." These films generally understand that, however hackneyed or clumsily they may occasionally approach the subject (and I didn't personally care for the way the 'terrorists' in Falcon and Winter Soldier were disposed of, even if I generally liked the story and the pathos they mostly gave the antagonists).

[@rejectionisprotection4448]

I'm not sure terrorism helped end Apartheid; it was more likely to do with economics (just like slavery); sanctions were starting to bite.

[@GregOrCreg]

@@rejectionisprotection4448 I think it was a bit of both, but I agree that ultimately economic sanctions is what delivered the final turn. It's also what might finally hurt Russia and Israel. Unfortunately, it takes so long to have a true impact and in a globalised world, not everyone is onboard.

[@StolastheDemonOwl]

@@GregOrCreg "What am I supposed to do // If I want to talk about peace and understanding // But you only understand the language of the sword" -Krigsgaldr by Heilung

[@MatthewBretton-cu2el]

Terrorism works is more evidenced by Western historical and current terrorism towards non whites. What do you call slavery? What do you colonialism? All taken by extreme violence and propped up by propaganda.

[@griffinshaffer83]

This is a funny day for this video to drop, with Luigi Mangione, the possible ceo shooter taken into custody. There is such a disconnect between how the news station cover this and how what feels like everyone else feels about it. They're trying to tell us who the villain is here, and nobody is buying it.

[@valentinomccoy8598]

Precisely

[@armaniesingletary8979]

Murdee is still wrong

[@f1mbultyr]

@@armaniesingletary8979 no

[@trill_is_bliss]

@@armaniesingletary8979it may be wrong but out of the 2 which man has more blood on his hands?

[@mel2000]

The shooter story is too early to conclude that he has support that extends beyond the young social media crowd, which tends to jump to conclusions quickly. Social media support often does not represent sane real world support.

[@Fazzieman]

Macrinus didn't want to tear Rome down, he just wanted to be the top of the pile - everyone else be damned. He was an embodiment of a corrupt Rome - an ex slave who when he became free became an arms dealer and slaver owner, and betted on those who he owned dying. He got his power through peddling death. He wasn't planning to tear Rome down. He wasn't the Joker or Kilmonger. He was planning on running it so he benefited, he was no Jugurtha. (who should have been in the film a lot longer) The only thing he said about the upper classes was he didn't like was Marcus Aurelias, otherwise he used them just like the did the lower slave class - there was no free the masses unless it benefited him. There was no feed the masses being mentioned. Or did I miss what he planned to put a better system in its place or any altruism on his part? The deal to kill the General with the main character (whose actor is Irish by the way) was made on Marcrinus' part because the General was a hero of Rome and had the chance of getting in Macrinus' way and he saw Lucius as a tool to get rid of that obstacle.

[@ijulius98]

yeah i must have missed it. i honestly don't see any killmonger or "wait til i get in. i'm actually for the people" in his character at all. at about the 2hr mark of the 2.5hr movie, denzel's character did start to "lean" into this anti-hero or anti-villain roll, but even then... i didn't perceive it as FD portrays. ima have to watch it again

[@Doriiaan]

I completely agree. I watched this take before I saw the film, but I couldn’t see much of FD’s take even tho I was looking real hard for it.

[@Dailyviralhiphop]

There are point on both sides

[@Fazzieman]

@Dailyviralhiphop if you want to take a step back from it Macrinus is the truth of the American Dream. What happens when it runs unfettered without any checks and balances. He pulled himself up by his bootstraps and stepped his way to the top and it wasn't his fault others couldn't keep up with him and he wasn't going to make a cushion for those behind him.

[@svenkampen1647]

Why does the revolutionary and colonizer stuff with Killmonger not add up? Didn't the movie itself point out how arming oppressed people to destabilize countries was how the american empire maintains its power? Well, I think it was a statement that Killmonger was doing exactly what the CIA trained him for. And it is kinda true the CIA helped a lot of people rise up against their oppressors if those happened to be foreign enemies of theirs and the revolution would give the USA more influence over the area. Wakanda in the Black Panther movies were always this power fantasy of a black nation being the richest most powerful in the world instead of the USA, so its really not that strange to have the worst stuff the US does be represented by the villain running Wakanda.

[@juuuu0]

I've actually been thinking about this trope a lot recently. I'm so tired of media depicting oppressor and oppressed as being 'all the same'/ 'two sides of the same coin'.

[@felipecouto1102]

This type of ''both sidsing'' in fiction is extremely common nowadays, pretending to be nuanced storytelling when its just the easiest and low effort thing possible.

[@ericwaffles2928]

Media depicts the oppressor and the oppressed as all the same? How do you mean? I'm not being critical or a troll, I am legitimately curious, because I'm a social worker in a large midwest metropolitan. I fight the good fight for those who can't fight, and what I've seen in media and society is that a very clear and firm line has been drawn in the sand between "the oppressor" and "the oppressed." Big media/big business want certain demographics to feel oppressed, because, in a nutshell that feeling ultimately holds a person and their spirit down. Limiting them from their maximum potential. So what do you mean about media depicting the oppressor and oppressed as all the same? Am I misunderstanding the point of the video? The bad guys at the top who rule the world want us to feel oppressed and want us to be mad at each other, because divided we are weak. If we were all to put our swords down, love each other, stop hating, stop blaming, and share bread together again at each other's tables, if we were to become one, that's the only chance we stand at fighting back. Which is why the "oppression" narrative, among many many others, has been pushed so hard.

[@felipecouto1102]

@@ericwaffles2928 I believe you didn't misinterpreted the video, but that you lost a part of it. The point is those movies are *always* about how ''The dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor''. It doesn't work in the way of making the oppressed feel tied down, it works as a stand-in for actual discussion, where the oppressed rebels but is portrayed as wrong for reasons like being ''unconstructive'' or too violent. It generally makes a character who is right on all accounts of his beliefs do absolutely batshit insane stuff JUST because ''if he is like that it means his objective is also wrong''. Those types of movies are arguably more to the general population rather then marginalized groups, because it makes them identify any type of heavy disagreement as radicalism that ''*always turns to violence*''. Its like FD mentioned in the video, this ''we don't need to destroy Rome, the empire can be better, stop the hate!!'' vibe is just an excuse to maintain the status quo. At the end of the day Rome continued exactly like it always was, *everybody loses* and its eventually destroyed.

[@TheSkyfolk]

@@ericwaffles2928 "The bad guys at the top who rule the world want us to feel oppressed" Source? Because it's very much the opposite. It's in the ruling class's best interest to keep the masses barely satisfied while also making them feel privileged over the Other (starving african children TV spots, for example). Being a social worker clearly doesn't make you very observant. Making people feel oppressed is the fast track to rebellion.

[@violetk8025]

I honestly didn’t get that at all. It felt more like that guy killing the ceo. If you keep stepping on the oppressed class they will eventually snap . There can only be rage and violence in the end .

[@legendswarble2845]

Going from Gladiator 2 to Wicked was a wild experience. One film says obviously correct black revolutionary was wrong for some reason, and the other says that the black revolutionary is goddamned right. One framed that characters death being celebrated as correct, and the other frames it as the great tragedy the story is building to. Honestly, wild that a film with talking goats and Jeff Goldblum doing a little dance had more radical politics than a film about the fall of ancient Rome.

[@sulimanthemagnificent4893]

Except Hannibal wasn’t black? (last I checked Rome enslaved many of their enemies, so how come Italy is tan not black) That’d be like saying Moroccans or Egyptians are black… like what? The thing is, there’s plenty of African epic’s they’ll *never* write about because it’s not actually about genuine representation. The first and second Italo-Ethiopian war, the chronicles of Askia, anything to do with Mansa-Musa, or even Tomas Sankara. Menelik of Shewa, destroying the Italians and making Ethiopia whole. Mansa-Musa literally being so wealthy he debased the currencies of entire nations. Sankara taking over his nation and attempting to transform it for the better despite internal opposition. But instead we just get black “inserts” instead of the real history.

[@pm0913]

I mean, Elphaba still kinda loses in the end so it's really not much better

[@legendswarble2845]

@sulimanthemagnificent4893 You see, I was talking about the difference in the films and not real life.

[@legendswarble2845]

@pm0913 I did note that in my original comment. I noted that the difference is how it's framed. One is a victory, and the other is a tragedy. Also, Spoilers for Wicked: Elphaba only loses by technicality. She successfully fakes her death. While she doesn't clear her name, the Wizard and Morrible are defeated, and Glinda is left in power to start enacting change. It's not everything, and it's maybe not enough, but it is something. It's a much more bittersweet an ending than what Gladiator 2 gives us for its black revolutionary.

[@aeoligarlic4024]

Gladiator 2 really knows their shallow fanbase. People who love that crap usually cheer on war movies anyway

[@mwhitcher]

A lot of cop/procedureal shows pull this same trick. Where they want to comment on topical issues, but aren't allowed to challenge anyone's preconceptions about anything. So they just make the "bad guy with a point" do and say awful things for no reason. So at the end the "good guys" can shrug their shoulders and say, maybe they had some good points. Idk. And move on to the next episode

[@darkblader06]

Or they write them out because of behind the scenes politics ( looking at you my gulity pleasure The Rookie).

[@rahbeeuh]

I'm re-watching Continuum (it's on KZbin) and it's just like you stated. The show tried to say sum'n but by the time it finally did Syfy cancelled it. The fans brought it back for one more season but it wasn't the same after that. It's a decent show it's just it falls somewhat into that trope.

[@rahbeeuh]

​@@darkblader06what happened there without spoilers?

[@darkblader06]

@@rahbeeuh FIrst season the training officer got written out with no explination. Rumor is she had filed an HR complaint . Second person quit because of the officer string involved shootings that year. The way they written off was kinda annoying.

[@rahbeeuh]

@@darkblader06 thanks for sharing. I've only seen an episode of season 1 and meant to keep watching but didn't. Sucks when characters disappear without a reason.

[@maganatalia8432]

"Russell Butler Jr." 🤣🤣

[@YukonBloamie]

A minute in and I'm already like "Don't you dare bring Luigi into this!" 😂

[@Eamonshort1]

A deeply honored Irishman checking in to bump the algo

[@pcaseyx]

Mise freisin! Beirt anseo, ar a laghad.

[@jacobbirkinshaw5359]

The whiplash between him saying "maybe I'm racist towards English people" when talking about not being able to tell Paul Mescal (Irish), Gerard Butler (Scottish) and Russell Crowe (New Zealander) apart and then saying "I only fuck with the Irish" was insane.

[@djsurelookit]

Yeah cool an all but Mescal is a proud Irishman lol

[@SantanicoDiabolical]

@@jacobbirkinshaw5359 maybe because they are all white and most likely share similar heritage? only difference is culture, which isn't genetic. Cant' tell an Irish person from Ireland apart from and English person. Just culture.

[@Li_Tobler]

@@jacobbirkinshaw5359 ayo what's his beef with the scots though? Aren't they as oppressed by england as the irish?

[@jordancantdie]

"Gerussell Crutler The Third" is crazy man lmaoooo

[@ash2dvst]

I was hyped when we signed Gerussell Crutler III to the Raiders

[@pahvi3]

Took me tf out, they really are the same guy lmao

[@itsdantaylor]

2:15 it also doesn't help that Falcon teams up with Sharon Carter who is revealed to be essentially the mastermind and was basically using him to cover up lose ends to her scheme. His whole 'Do Better' speech falls flat when we as the audience are thinking at the end 'dude your basically were HELPING the villain and not smart enough to realize it'.

[@LC_2012]

Very enlightening. Never looked at those movies like that. Great break down. Your word play on Russell Crow Jr. was hilarious.

[@leonxmeek9036]

luther on loop in the background makes this video so much more enjoyable 😊

[@MariahBunni]

Yeah I minored in Classical Civilization for my BA and while watching I was like “But he’s right?!” I do appreciate Scott destroying nazi perceptions by accurately portraying Rome as a shithole city though!

[@TheShut1]

The one time it would've been actually correct to use fascist instead of nazi, and you still screwed up.

[@cftpafan]

@@TheShut1they’re talking about how neo Nazis glorify the Roman Empire.

[@TheShut1]

@@cftpafan Still would be more accurately to call such people neo Fascist, but I guess all those people themselves barely know anything and are just muddied hate group taking inspiration from both ideologies, whatever it suits them.

[@Sillymodezeenith]

@@TheShut1But nazi’s DID notoriously create a mythology around Roman history- they based their architecture off of Rome, alluded to it in their art and media, and their entire idea of supremacy was built around the idea of being from a superior ultra-nation, like Rome. I’m not a historian but from the superficial research I’ve done on Nazi Germany, you see the Roman Empire EVERYWHERE

[@asinglebraincell6584]

@@cftpafan They're still weird for making Rome seem like a shithole though. Nazis believed all civilizations came from germanic people via a lost germanic civilisation, people today validate that by acknowledging ancient Rome as theirs; Germans, English, etc. When in reality Rome has a longer history in literally any other part of the mediterranean. Never addressing the underlying nationalist pseudo-history is weird. When is that going to happen? The internet "left" needs to do more reading and catch up cause the facts are rich and useful here.

[@shahzebhasan9995]

You can literally feel the movie struggling to vilify Macrinus as much as possible by switching his goal from scene to scene, he goes from wanting to destroy Rome to wanting to rule it as a tyrant to suddenly calling for radical reform with his final speech before his death. It really feels like they realised he was 100% right and so they scrambled to see which goal would make him seem the most evil.

[@sportel4644]

Yes that part. I was down with burning rome, then he wanted to rule it and I was like "ok I guess he is just bad"? At the end of the day he was someone they wrote to put in the bad guy spot so everything he said was just in service of entertainment and they never really gave the internality and goals of a Freedman too much thought because the writers knew that, whatever they had him say, this guy had been broken by his experiences

[@csd8204]

It was a murderous Empire so...everybody involved in maintaining or restoring it was bad. But that's just me.

[@mojrimibnharb4584]

"villainize" is the term in fiction. In real-life we vilify individuals.

[@arkady0]

@@sportel4644Macrinus was a real person who had Caracalla killed because he knew he would be killed for treason if he didn’t. He was later killed by Caracalla’s mother, who the movie ignores for some reason. Macrinus died before he could set foot in Rome.

[@aboulding]

It's like when they changed the whole plot of Frozen so that banger track "Let it go" could fit the plot. Ridley Scott knew Denzel was in the movie. How you think people are gonna react when he's on screen doing his thing

[@3l_Raro]

The way Denzel Washington ate that script and left the whole cast as clowns. The whole movie should've been about him, like who cares for The Dream of Rome™!

[@AlexandriaVirginia-s9t]

I hope he gets his 3rd oscar

[@efef6853]

They have to portray YT SUPREMACY as some sort of a good thing, they can't have a BLACK man shining.

[@AshenVictor]

Quite a lot of the scenery as well. Clearly having the most fun in the movie. (By the third century the idea of Rome as a republic was long dead and the city of Rome was relatively unimportant to the Empire. Macrinus had Caracalla murdered so he didn't get murdered first and he lasted 14 months as Emperor rather than about five minutes. He never even went to Rome as Emperor).

[@plainsaw3771]

😂true

[@Martinelli_1998]

tbf in relation to the dream of Rome i think we are meant to know that the dream of Rome isnt real as it will fall. I think both of us as the audience and ridley scott himself side with denzels character. Like as a director i think he would be good enough to portray denzels loss as a victory but it doesn't, we feel like we lost as well. I think its about the decadence of empire and the naive attempts to reform it portrayed by the dream of rome while fighting against actual change represented by denzels character but maybe im being too optimistic as i quite like a lot of his other films

[@jasonkinzie8835]

"What have the Romans ever done for us!" "The aqueduct?"

[@DuskyJewel]

“I don’t watch bad things. Good for you.” 6:20 This is not one of those things. Brilliant analysis! You fed my brain from beginning to end.

[@mohussain4792]

Denzel was in an intense Shakeperean drama playing the role like a combination of Othello and Richard III and everyone else is meandering around in a slightly higher budget version of Spartacus: Blood and Sand.

[@Pog_Hammarskjold]

Say what you will about Spartacus: Blood and Sand's 10 ft of set with all the scenery chewed, it had its politics right.

[@rodrigokels24]

It gave Aaron the Moor!

[@yelhsanosnhoj6602]

He’s highly overrated as an actor, he’s only good at playing the angry Black man

[@christopherrodgers815]

To say that the angry Black man is the role he most often plays is correct, but to say he is ONLY good at that is not true.​ @yelhsanosnhoj6602

[@Chessbox09]

@@yelhsanosnhoj6602Denzel the angry black man? Only other role I can think of is Training Day. Even in Training Day, he was just a corrupt cop and race wasn’t even in play. Other than that what roles did he play that trope?

[@ravenclawconfused14]

“I only mess with the Irish” then completely has no idea who Paul Mescal is 😂.

[@albondeb]

The reality is that you only knew Mescal before Gladiator if you like gay films or romantic comedy dramatics. The 'rocking with the irish' in the context of race issues pertains to how Irish were considered inferior by the colonisers

[@gravityvertigo13579]

I had to come over here from Nebula to see if someone else caught it lol

[@Fuzzycuffsqt]

I don't think "who paul mescal is" is common knowledge. Maybe it will be now

[@ravenclawconfused14]

@ the joke is he’s Irish. Not that deep.

[@ravenclawconfused14]

@@albondeb Paul mescal is an Irish actor. That’s the joke.

[@yash_kapoor]

Gladiator 2 is especially weird because like in a weird technicality Denzel’s character won in the end but he still has to be defeated.

[@Abjectbutterfly]

Says only the strongest shall rule the hero proceeded to disprove him by brutally murdering him in a sword fight. Truly the writing of all time

[@wtxcrazydonut]

Lol good point

[@Cdr2002]

Killmonger would be the same in a sense if the MCU as a whole actually put in the work to depict Wakandan outreach as happening

[@JoJoDOOM95]

😂😂 I'm weak​@@Abjectbutterfly

[@JulienCotton]

Sounds like a typical greek tragedy, Adam Freidland.

[@kallinhodotcom]

“GeRussel Crutler III” is the best name I’ve ever heard. 😭😭

[@actionboy3221]

Thank you for the matrix filter instead of just blocking out the movie parts. It was legit starting to feel like “why even watch this? It’s mostly censored down and I can’t pay for another subscription right now to watch it uncensored.”

[@MsTMB-g2d]

The MINUTE you started describing the character I thought "THAT'S why they cast a black man and not just any black man but DENZEL "😂😂😂

[@madison6932]

6:23 paul mescal being Irish makes this moment 1000x funnier

[@TheTrueThomayo]

Multiply by a couple more 10s

[@BathrobeKeck]

Gerard Butler is also VERY Irish

[@TheTrueThomayo]

@BathrobeKeck and, i might be confusing him with someone else but, isnt Russell Crowe Australian?

[@maggiemcfly5267]

​@@BathrobeKeckButler is Scottish, and Crowe is Australian lol

[@bullis1858]

@@maggiemcfly5267 He’s a NZer with Australian citizenship if we’re being pedantic. And the Aussies only gave him citizenship recently. 😂

[@nainai6030]

Not the picture of Sheryl “you can’t tell me Percy Jackson wasn’t a Black child” Lee Ralph

[@dublancdedinde]

i mean, he's from new york. he fights titans. there's gotta be a black percy jackson, somewhere.

[@nicolasnamed]

Funnily enough I always imagined Nico and Hazel as black when I read the books as a kid. No particular reason, it wasn't concious, it was just how I imagined him. It also didn't mean he wasn't Italian, I guess I just missed whenever his and his sister's skin tones were described? My best guess is that when I was a kid I grew up in a diverse area so it made more sense to me that a black kid would eventually show up and be important? Who knows

[@sigilyph_with_a_gun1184]

Reading the books as a kid I was under the impression that Grover was black

[@jordanpax9735]

​@@nicolasnameddo you mean Bianca? Nico's tragic sister who abandoned him as soon as it was convenient. Because it was kinda clear that Nico and his sister were white passing while hazel is black. The whole thing is made weirder that the gods can shapeshift

[@Numbabu]

@@sigilyph_with_a_gun1184he was in the movie 🤷

[@noinktechnique]

Russell Crowe is from New Zealand and Gerard is Scotch, come on fiq, damn 😭🤣

[@AdrianMoseley]

Them Jerod crowe jr jokes 💀💀💀💀, Ive been saying that for years especially at the beginning of their careers.

[@djtaytoman]

6:44 YES BRO much love from Ireland, we love your channel, power to the people and tiocfaidh ár lá ✊ ❤

[@lex_rodriguez]

Go get your boy, Ranting for Vengeance then lmao

[@adrianseanheidmann4559]

pathetic

[@funlilguy]

^^^^

[@funlilguy]

@@adrianseanheidmann4559no u

[@hibernopithecus7500]

Then point out that Paul Mescal is Irish then ffs! Plank!

[@andie599]

10/10 for that whole bit about getting Gerard butler and Russell Crowe confused 😂😂😂 that pic of Sheryl lee Ralph got me

[@moustik31]

Calling the MC: Russell Butler Jr/Baby Gerald Crowe is hilarious!

[@justinjesse2107]

Gerussel Cutler got me 😂

[@farrens_ak]

He looks like the disowned third Paul brother and it's not his fault to look like that.

[@EMItilIdie]

That joke sent me! I was on Mars!! That was funny too me

[@weranoutofgoodusernames3105]

@@justinjesse2107 thank you for explaining that, i didn't get it at first

[@tahaymvids1631]

I have absolutely zero problem with them casting a black person for that is not my issue with Denzel’s casting, but us north africans already have almost zero representation in popular media I was disappointed we didn’t get that. Not forgetting that Ridley Scott hates casting people of the same ethnicity he is portraying and openly said he doesn’t want arabs in his movies. If they wanted to cast a black person they should’ve cast a black arab/amazigh maghrebi person that would’ve been the way to go and much better I would’ve loved that.

[@RebelWithoutABoss]

Y'all get more upset or disappointed if a black person is cast, but when people that look like northern Europeans play North Africans (which is most of the time) this anger or disappointment is nowhere near as palpable. I've been the Egypt (business not pleasure) and the vast majority of people look nothing like Europeans, but for some reason the uproar only happens when it's black actors portraying Egyptians. Until you all have have equal disdain for being whitewashed, you'll never be represented

[@tahaymvids1631]

@ I literally brought up Ridley Scott refusing to cast arabs and said I had a problem with it, the reason I talked about Macrinus is that he is what the video is about and the topic and I am contributing? And I said it’s not because he’s black I said it’s because he is not Maghrebi, arab and black are not mutually exclusive there are many black arabs out there. Regardless, no matter what we do not get representation. I also have a problem with Joseph Quinn portraying a libyan/syrian but again that isn’t the topic of the video.

[@Esmexie]

? Some North Africans were black dark skin too

[@MrEzuma]

It was a weird choice not to cast a black man necessarily as a probably not black historical guy, whatever, to me it's weird they did that though, and then made his backstory slavery? Like Macrinus irl was never a slave...

[@dionjones6300]

I love your point. It would have been lovely.

[@moyo9907]

8:36- We just not gonna let u say Garussell Crutler III with a straight face !! 🤣😂🤣

[@RavenwingAcademy7511]

Bruh.."Gerussle Crutler" is NAAANNNERZZZ 😂😂😂😂😂

[@rjrgjr]

2:25 she randomly blows up a supply depot for refugees. This was the moment I gave up on all things marvel. I was like oh... This is very intentional. Just about cried during Mackie's imperialism good speech in the end (derogatory).

[@wrestlinganime4life288]

Makes me weary of how they handle the Xmen

[@Nerdish-o6o]

I knew the show/marvel was going to disappoint me after the hospital scene, but the speech Falcon gives at the end over her dead body literally had me screaming

[@wrestlinganime4life288]

​@Nerdish-o6o "YoU goTtA dO BettEr SenAtor" seriously that was some bs . Imagine if that was eric adams

[@ShadowProject01]

@@wrestlinganime4life288 I fear this too. You are not alone

[@ShadowProject01]

@@Nerdish-o6oI literally cringed out loud after his speech

[@minchin6924]

6:45 that guy is irish ahahah

[@MariahBunni]

He clarified that in the video

[@lockekappa500]

@@MariahBunni No, he didn't.

[@sp0ngeb00b7]

That sent me😭😭

[@cacholulu6749]

And Russell Crowe is from New Zeland haha

[@jacobbirkinshaw5359]

@@cacholulu6749 and Gerard Butler is Scottish. Literally none of them are English. But maybe that was the point?!

[@ImpendingRiot83]

Me, Parenti-pilled, watching any Rome movie where the villain isn’t Cicero, the Senate and the aristocrat class and the Praetorian guard: *_This is bullshit._*

[@jacobj3912]

The peacock show had a lot of flaws but, spoilers, when the villain just straight up bribes the Praetorian guard in one conversation I couldn't help but respect the accuracy.

[@18Hongo]

Hating Cicero when Marius, Pompey, and the second triumvirate are RIGHT THERE seems like something of an oversight, but go off, I suppose.

[@jacobj3912]

@@18Hongo real take but, Octavian. Real villain of history even if he was the most successful emperor, arguably the most successful tyrant ever.

[@18Hongo]

@@jacobj3912 Octavian was, in most respects, quite a subtle tyrant. He did some absolutely horrendous things, but he always made sure he wasn't alone when he did them, and he even reorganized the senate so that they felt useful and valued while he racked up his war crimes. I still think Appius Claudius would call him a punk though. "Oh, you built a lot of public works, did you? In your home city, rather than through enemy territory, AND without the senate whining about how you were causing numerous constitutional crises? Wimp."

[@acerazorakjsflasjfka]

Imagine getting your "education" on history from a hack like Michael Parenti lmao

[@twistingpath2378]

The gerard butler - russel crowe mix up is completely normal. I cant ever tell them apart either lmao

[@SaberRiko]

Just watched this earlier and complained to my friends before seeing this video. My immediate message to them at the end was "This speech about ending tyranny and bringing power back to the people rings pretty hollow when you know they have zero plans to end all the slavery going on here."

[@ptyten9718]

As soon as Denzel's character lost to Gladiator Jr. I left the movie theater while other ppl were applauding, I think I'm a communist now ✌🏽

[@volodymyrbilyk555]

Wait til you see Training Day

[@jeremybrown9611]

😂😂

[@Portosleeve]

🤪

[@JordanJumpin]

u aint one already? 🤣 welcome aboard

[@nicolemonroe3655]

My daughter screamed out that is elderly abuse.

[@giovannizerbini3119]

Disney did this with the villain in Secret Invasion too. He was an alien trying to find his people a home and only killing human people, basically preaching that Nick Fury aka the government offered them a home and never actually delivered so now he's going to fight the humans to take Earth until suddenly he decides he actually just wants superpowers and kills all of his alien people when they question him

[@jeremybrown9611]

SI was stupid and should've never been made

[@BeardedWolfKing]

Yeah wtf? They have the potential to be actually be greater that the comics one or atleast have a decent to great change of story from the OG source but instead it all boils to nyaaaa im a villain see?

[@zeframmann1641]

I normally hate unmarked spoilers but you just saved me 6 hours of my valuable time left on this planet so good looks. 👍

[@moustik31]

Omg I remember. I stopped watching this show after the pilot bec. btw the lizard people aesthetic (a classic antisemitic conspiracy theory) and the villainisation of in-world refugees, it was clear to me, that this show didnt have the range to tackle this issue meaningfully.

[@ADubbs-fd8xf]

​@zeframmann1641 Imo the ending was mostly not fun, there's good stuff in the series, but you can't find it in the villain story arc. There is a love story that I really liked, though, personally. I've pretty much given up on actually enjoying the social commentary in MCU films (aside from Spiderverse), they always get so close to saying something interesting or unique, and then cop out at the last second.

[@FailoReachForge]

I'm white so I obviously am not going to speak with authority on black panther but I think the key part that helps Killmonger is the synthesis of ideas at the end if the film and going forward in further films. It isnt "Killmonger did bad things so he was wrong and we defeated him" it was more "Killmonger was right but went to far, but we can no longer leave the the issue he was trying to address alone". And even how clunky the execution of the ending is, at least killmongers purpose and moral force is not killed with his death but synthesised into the ethos going forward.

[@randomfluffypup9608]

it was synthesised into NGOs and charity, which in the real world are usually set up to co-opt ideas that could threaten a state's hegemony not to say charity is bad but it's just a very... sad lesson to take from Killmonger

[@Seth9809]

Historically, and even just looking around, a lot of people don't actually want freedom and an end to oppression. They actually just want an end to their own oppression, or even to be the oppressor.

[@r13132]

Well educated and surgical breakdown. In future we wont b mad at spoilers. Ur explanations are spot on . Respect brother

[@crystaljanai2229]

I watched this video on nebula but I can't find a comments section. I came here to say that your analysis of the movie is EXACTLY how I felt and I was so disappointed with the outcome. It was good watching Denzel doing his thing but at that cost ewww! And also I said I bet everyone else on set demanded more money for being put to absolute shame whenever Denzel was around because that mean NEVER looked bad when he was in a room.

[@StephaniePerry]

Thumbs up for "We only rock with the Irish." 💗

[@stephensmith7327]

Although Crowe is Australian, Although his family is probably from England. Still, better than a South African or, God Forgive me for mentioning them, a "Rhodesian"🤢.

[@YakBat]

And please only real Irish, Bill and Tom from Boston who's never even left Massachusetts.

[@Leahcimmichael]

"Rhodesian" no God is forgiving you for that. Shoutout to Zimbabwe and Zambia

[@StoutCorvus]

​@@YakBatFunny enough I thought the same thing. Especially because those guys most likely the thin blue line hats.

[@SK-pb2nv]

As a Scottish I am outraged

[@Cbev1994]

Not for nothing but I know someone who was confused on why Roman soldiers and leaders were portrayed as malicious in almost every scene of the chosen and I'm like "...they're romans"

[@dionjones6300]

Biblically accurate, historically accurate Romans 😂

[@wrestlinganime4life288]

There's an insane glorification of empire especially ancient Rome. Like don't get me wrong I LOVE history..but I also know history is fucked up and so was Rome

[@efef6853]

The Romans weren't exactly a lovey dovey type of people.

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

@@efef6853 People who build global empires usually aren't yeah.

[@DeadKraken]

@@wrestlinganime4life288 Being confused as to why romans are portrayed as bad people is the same kind of surprise americans experience when they discover they are absolutely hated by anyone that isn't north american lol Empires be hated and power be bad, more at 5

[@fluffskunk]

The shitlib "If you do that you'll be no better than him!" trope is Hollywood's version of the Nicean creed, it underpins everything they do. Stand up, speak out, but don't you ever, ever dare take action that harms anyone in any way or you're the same as Baron Evilton von Puppystomper.

[@talscorner3696]

Baron Evilton von Puppystomper xD

[@albondeb]

B Signifier is so right about this and actually could have gone way harder on this film. The slaves were on Dwayne Johnson diets, Mescals IMDB, racism erasure, the king of Rome being a monkey at the end, Denzel having his hand cut off symbolically... theres more!!

[@ladariuslivingston6938]

Gladiator: Audience despies Joaquin Phoenix Gladior II: Audience praises Denzel

[@moondog548]

"Charismatic Menaces" oh shit, that is a GOLD nugget of rhetoric that I need to use thank you very much.

[@condensedman]

The movie being released in the backdrop of the crisis we’re going through right now cannot be even more on the nose than it already is.

[@moustik31]

Ikr? Denzel is Black (and queer?), the 2 Emperors are either gay or queer, etc. We (marginalised people and allies) are being told to sh*t the f*ck up and leave the "liberation" in the hands of the local w. and straight saviours of "noble" lineage. The fact, that the Pedro Pascal's character is rehabilitated in the end, while Denzel's is villified (?) is certainly a choice! It's so bad, Im not even mad, that the usual "culture warriors" will boycott this movie bec. of "wokeness"! 🙃

[@serialhealer5113]

What crisis?

[@chocolatespuds]

Very "Game of Thrones," in that the story takes fascinating characters and makes them stupid to make the story work. Why would a 70-year old former slave prefer to fight a 20-something who kills people for entertainment, instead of letting those two armies just go to town on each other and wait to see if Lucius gets whacked in the middle of all that? Loved Denzel's performance, but they didn't have to make him so dumb in the end. Also, Denzel dies in this movie almost exactly the same as he did in The Tragedy of Macbeth. Also... sharks in the Coliseum... sigh...

[@chitchat1212]

I agree. The script wasn’t good overall. Denzel being Denzel saved the movie.

[@innawoods2131]

Personally prefer the rundown from We're Not So Different podcast; medieval historians and roman empire historian for that episode. All leftists, great commentary.

[@curunir1961]

Honestly it’s the way he lost for me. He literally won the fight when he had Russell jr. down in the water. But he kept stabbing brodie’s breastplate, apparently not realizing he was stabbing in the same spot. If he’d moved his blade up a few inches, he’d have got buddy in the face or the neck. Battle ended, game over. But nah “i’M jUS gOn’ SIt hErE stABbiN’ hIS BreaStplATe uNtiL hE stANd bAck uP anD wHoOp Ma ASs” 🥴

[@nichescenes]

@@curunir1961wait game of thrones is considered badly written now?

[@fightingmedialounge519]

​@@nichescenesyeah, the last seasons did irreversible damage to its reputation.

[@TheCrimsonLupus]

The film is definitely reinforces the usual: "we don't need to burn it down, we can fix the system" BS. Which entirely misses the point that the system we live in is not broken, it is working exactly as designed. It oppresses all but the 1% and keeps the 99% down and in-fighting forever, the only thing the 1% fear is that we burn it all down. So many villains are shown with this agenda, especially black people or people who are different in some way, so that it can be used to justify stamping down on these groups. (sorry that turned into a rant, forgot to say; excellent video!)

[@meech5239]

Problem with Denzels character was in real life he was never a slave or a gladiator.

[@agent0fchange49]

I completely agree with your read. And personally I feel Denzels character should have not only been the primary focus of the film, but should have been the primary protagonist with the gladiators as tools. Also historically the person his character was named after ACTUALLY SUCCEEDED in becoming emperor for a hot minute. It woudl have been a better or at least more interesting movie.

[@MrMannnMannn]

you know luther is good when it beats out institutionalized for b sides background music

[@TakverReturns]

Chuckles...when I started watching the video, I was like...wait. Is that "Luther" or do I have some other video tab open? 😅

[@stupidteous]

i didnt even hear the bg music its so quiet

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

GNX replacing TPAB around here

[@notyet3dna]

8:33 the names you gave to the character throughout the video… “baby gerard crowe” lmfao

[@brendonwallace6640]

Jarussell crutler lll had me dying 😂😂😂😂😂

[@v2huhroon]

@@brendonwallace6640same 😭

[@SeanTanktop]

That's hilarious cause Paul Mescal is currently IRISH AF. Good breakdown.

[@spintech11]

I was not ready for G’Russle Cruttler the 3rd!!! 😂😂😂

[@pudding1255]

the lad in the movie IS irish lmao that's paul mescal 😭😭

[@wartygourd]

LMAO i forgot he was Irish.

[@dmonee6196]

I always find it disappointing that they don’t at least let the character who killed such sympathetic villains as at least coming to terms with what was correct about the villain’s goals. Like, not “let’s koombahyah and change nothing, really” messaging, instead a “his approach was fucked, but don’t think this place is safe. We’re taking actual action, now” Forget historical accuracy. Or maybe embrace the accuracy and have a few mins detailing the corruption and fall of Rome here, showing how every emperor was killed and terribly corrupt. Emphasize how right the villain ended up being about the problem, if not the solution.

[@qwerqwer-rt8wm]

i have seen this done and I WISH I could remember where

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

Hell, I'd argue that he was right about the solution. The sequel straight up tells us that no lessons were learned when Commodus died and Rome not only immediately returned to be a slave state with gladiator games but also somehow got worse and more incompetent with those two clown Emperor brothers running the show. Like... what are we supposed to take from that, especially when the film doesn't even bother to explain how things will be totally different this time?

[@lancethefilmguy9392]

It's OK for villains to be villains

[@dmonee6196]

@@lancethefilmguy9392 it’s okay to admit you don’t understand the words before you

[@lancethefilmguy9392]

@dmonee6196 Nice try, my friend. Nice try

[@kingofthegundam7974]

I like Denzel Washington's character in Gladiator 2 mostly 'cause I took him to be an honest scumbag. He was a slave and wanted to get on top as his turn to rule over people. He didn't care, but it's precisely because he was in it for himself that I found him more relatable than the actual main character, who's trying to fight for a version of Rome that never existed even in the first movie.

[@jamesbryant7751]

I got to said I felt Denzel’s character was actually acting out of vengeance and disgust for what Rome was.

[@jamesbryant7751]

I do agree with you.

[@kingofthegundam7974]

@@jamesbryant7751 I agree, and I think both can be true. His digust for Rome fuels him as much as his desire for power.

[@korefaust7260]

I have so much love and respect for your content. Thank you ❤

[@TheBellePerspectiveTV]

JaRussell Crowe, I’m 😂 DEAD!

[@orion0915]

Also, the twin emperors in the movie being clearly queer-coded if not openly bisexual is such an obvious mark against the whole "Gladiator 2 is woke" crowd. The whole movie is basically that super reactionary "Hard times create strong men" meme. It's Pedro Pascal and Gladiator Jr. being two strong, traditional men, taking down a black anti-imperialist and the weak, effeminate, decadent emperors. It's still a good watch, but it also makes me crave so badly for some non-Jesus related media in which the Romans are the explicit bad guys.

[@ToLovelyJesus]

There will never be anything non-Jesus related. Biblical morality is the basis of everything.

[@orion0915]

@@ToLovelyJesus I just mean something that doesn't literally have Jesus in it

[@sainttheresetaylor2054]

@@ToLovelyJesus yes because the world didn’t exist before the concept of jesus

[@ghost245353]

I was talking to my friend about Killmonger. His existence was kept secret from Wakanda. The movie doesn't tell you whether or not Erik knows this fact. He had no reason to be mad at Wakanda. The only ones we know who knew of Erik Killmonger were his biological uncle and his "uncle" James.

[@s.g.7572]

He had two reasons to be mad at Wakanda: on a personal level, they killed his father, and on an ideological level, he's lived as a Black man in America and he knows firsthand how the wealth they're hoarding could help oppressed people.

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

It's so weird how Denzel's character was talking about destroying Rome from within only to basically be like "I want power and to be Emperor" out of nowhere. The basically had to make him full of shit.

[@Ohmygatos35]

Thank you 🙏🏼 I noticed that and thought I thought he wanted chaos so Rome could destroy itself. It would have made a lot more sense. SMH 🤦🏾‍♀️

[@RavenwingAcademy7511]

Wait...is that NOT Brussel Gecrowler!?😂😂 fantastic.

[@l.a.w.6494]

Black panther was basically Malcolm X versus MLK Jr.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Not quite, or at all.

[@Seth9809]

I don't think X wanted to actually conquer all white people.

[@Jokoman019]

I remember watching the movie and when he kills the emperors it’s played in the movie as an extremely evil and unjustified act by Denzel’s character, but literally at the very beginning of the movie we’re told that they’re brutal, and cold rulers who only enjoy violence. The entire movie and even in the first one, Rome is depicted as a savage, deprived society that doesn’t care about it’s people especially the poor and with an insane class disparity that is allowed to worsen by the ruling class……what exactly did Denzel’s character do wrong in the context of the movie😭?

[@necinewton7672]

Denzel did nothing wrong but lose the sword fight. 😂 Both sides of the army let em duke it out in a fair fight. In fact, Denzel's character said he was going to rule Rome like this - the strongest survives. He fought hard though lol

[@roderickshaka3626]

⛳️Denzel’s xter was deceitful & manipulative; he connived to bring about the arrest of Pedro Pascal’s xter who was plotting to take down the oppressive brutal regime of the twin kings, he also plotted, manipulated towards the final Gladiator show, in order to kill Lucilla, where he ultimately shot the arrow that kills her; he was doing all this for purely selfish reasons i.e to gain power & control, not because he cared about the oppressed masses. Denzel’s xter is by no means someone to admire.

[@otg_dre]

I mean if you think of it on a personal level he killed Lucilla and tried to kill Lucious

[@VincentStevenStudio]

He uh, Killed the mom. There you go. He's "evil" now.

[@danieldacosta9157]

😂​@@VincentStevenStudio

[@AVClarke]

The issue with a lot of modern TV and Movie storytelling is a lot of creators have entered a kind of 'post-heroism' phase, where they want to paint all the characters with gray paint, where the hero isn't always right, and the villain isn't always wrong, and you end up with a final product that just feels weird and unsatisfying.

[@GregOrCreg]

WTF? There's A LOT wrong with modern media, but the drive to provide multi-faceted and deep characters that DON'T subscribe to MORONIC good v evil binary BULLSHIT, is NOT one of them. Only hardcore MAGA people, or their far-left equivalent (and speaking even as a leftist, I find that many extremists on all sides of the political spectrum tend to be fundamentally STUPID and unable to comprehend or deal with nuance) would have any sort of problem with more nuanced and complex narratives.

[@STARLIGHTCANDY4u]

Hmm, this is a really good point. Unfortunately, most people either just don't have the politics or don't have the writing chops to deftly write stories with that sort of nuance.

[@browniebear]

It reads like you're inherently against a story that isn't a simple "Hero vs Villain" narrative where the hero is nearly entirely righteous and the villain is just malevolent. Gray Areas are difficult to navigate which is exactly why they should be explored. Most writers will fail but that's par for the course as most writers anywhere fail in nearly everything all the time. Audiences should raise their expectations regardless because it incentivizes the best writers to be even better. Everyone deserves better stories.

[@womp3571]

@@browniebear it reads like theres a trend nowdays to make characters on-the-nose nuanced because of the rise of anti-heroes and 'post-heroism' etc done by more mainstream media to intentionally make the story seem like it has more depth than it does, even when the story doesn't call for it or it fits awkardly into the messaging. pulling of something like that has to be very intentional and thought out, when its not done right it feels aimless, contrived and unsatisfying because what is actually being said here? instead of a message delivered in a nuanced way, its slop of tropes for the purpose to be percieved as nuanced

[@browniebear]

@@womp3571 Did you miss the part where I mentioned that most writers will fail at nearly everything all the time? Do the number of bad stories that attempt to explore gray areas outnumber the number of good stories that attempt to explore gray areas? I'd say yeah with the caveat that that ratio is not exclusive to just gray area stories. Every type of story will always have far more bad examples than good examples because there are simply far more bad and mediocre writers than good ones. That's the nature of the game. I don't like shallow stories either regardless of style or genre. I want more compelling stories because I think we all deserve better stories. Better stories remind audiences to keep their standards high & inspire writers to improve at their craft.

[@c.c.8450]

Paul Mescal is literally Irish XD

[@havingfunisnthard]

Also, Scotland did not lose their freedom willingly. Lumping them in with England is… a choice lmao.

[@jaykaye594]

@@havingfunisnthard They have voted to stay in the UK.

[@kettleworks]

@@havingfunisnthardthe scottish people, sure, but the union of england and scotland was because the scottish king james vi inherited the kingdom of england and ruled as a dual-monarch (why he’s called James I and VI). all monarchs since have centralised their rule from england so scotland eventually became the lesser partner until 1701 when the two were formally united into the kingdom of great britain

[@wordsdistorted]

@@jaykaye594 This was before Brexit and now England is holding Scotland hostage by refusing them another referendum. A referendum they (England) know will result in Scotland's independence.

[@georgeykitheka]

​@@havingfunisnthardScotland was a willing participant of the British empire and are part of that legacy of brutal colonisation including occupied Northern Ireland.

[@oliviadiann1507]

7:04 Russell Butler Jr is wild

[@YoungClarke]

Absolutely beside the point, but Denzel was satisfying to watch every moment he was on the screen. Had the best lines, and delivered by probably the most charismatic man in existence

[@sliccthedestroyer1881]

Everyone else was so boring to watch i went to the bathroom in the middle of the movie.

[@Mischa1917]

1:10 I believe the technical term is "domtext"

[@tripod_loucastle1677]

Pretext

[@F00L_Of_A_Took]

You're hilarious just fyi

[@alanhorton7300]

The real emperor Caracalla was this big short-tempered macho military dude who kept a pet lion next to his throne and harbored a murderous hatred for his brother. I feel like he would have been a more interesting character if they hadn't just slapped on the "all Roman emperors = the specific portrayal of Caligula from "I, Claudius" trope.

[@vallium4940]

That "Trope" is the most accurate piece of Rome's historical recount.

[@alanhorton7300]

@@vallium4940 Just saying imagine if Caracalla had been played by Dave Bautista and he's not "crazy" but he's paranoid and full of barely constrained rage and is always staring people down and making them shit themselves.

[@TDSCymro]

6:36 fuck me FD, the actor (Paul Mescal) is Irish and Russell Crowe is Australian, not English 😂 Also as a Welshman I agree with your overarching point about the English 😅

[@LivDeSantos]

Was about to comment this 😂🇨🇮

[@turnerbyrd2025]

Yep! Was right there with y’all 🇮🇪

[@drew335]

Shut up FD never wrong 😂

[@Gorapita]

Crowe is technically from New Zealand, or so the internet tells me. Raised and lives in Australia, but technically a Kiwi. Also, not sure why the Dutch caught a stray in that rant lmao

[@fanboy50]

@@Gorapita *looks at white South Africans* I think we know why.

[@lesbusa]

“Ho Tep, old head, right of passage, bonding ritual”.😂😂😂😂😂

[@KamieNati]

Sounds like a another Oscar for Denzel.

[@Athanasius242]

Lol are you playing Luther in the background or am I freaking out?

[@sandenson]

He often plays Kendrick beats on the background of the B-Sides videos lol. Usually it's Institutionalized.

[@Athanasius242]

@sandenson ahhh okay make sense.... when I heard Luther Vandross voice I paused the video to see if I had Spotify playing in another tab lolll

[@helenm6754]

I did the same! Because I'd just been listening to it

[@cavemanm8]

1:18 i think its just 'text' bro 😂

[@ophist8399]

yea duuuude. i was thinking about it for a moment 🤔

[@patrick__swayze]

thank god

[@Iamchrisshorts]

We all have those days lol

[@wick3dwords]

Foretext lol 😂

[@justified_wrath_21]

Foreskin

[@flyingteeshirts]

Ridley Scott is an extremely reactionary filmmaker when it comes to his historical films. Anytime he makes a historical film, we should remember that this is the man who made 1492: Conquest of Paradise. He can't be trusted with presenting history in an accurate or even a curious manner. It's always propagandistic, a regurgitation of the most common tropes, and pure spectacle.

[@ClockwerkMan]

I did love Kingdom of Heaven though.

[@qwerqwer-rt8wm]

​@@ClockwerkMan boooooo

[@qwerqwer-rt8wm]

​@@Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0000 sounds like you think "its just fiction"

[@flyingteeshirts]

@@ClockwerkMan it's still straight propaganda and garbled history. Balian of Ibelin was not a blacksmith in rural France; he was a lord and grew up as a lord in the Crusader states. The art and costumes make no sense; it's all shot-through with British stereotypes of medieval Europe and orientalism when presenting medieval Islam and the near East. And, the plot is soaked in post-9/11 anxieties and politics. Ridley Scott turned Balian's story into an Iraq War vet allegory. It's such a boring use of fascinating history.

[@lesliedixonjr7509]

You made some very salient points. I enjoyed the shoutout to Limewire the tech covid carrier!

[@aaronwalcott513]

Russel Butler Jr. 😂😂 The most memorable portion of the discourse.

[@TherealHazlett]

There was no reason to make a sequel to Gladiator in the first place.

[@mindyours2024]

None at all! Wish they would leave all the good movies alone! I absolutely hate the fact that they're redoing Harry Potter!! Like, whyyy!?!

[@MinecraftRick]

There's a German series called Barbarians (or Barbaren), and the way it does Rome is how Rome deserves to be done in film.

[@Urmumlel7025]

And, this is why people like the Sonic Franchise. The villains are in no way "morally complex." Dr. Robotnic is an imperialist who actively takes joy in stealing lands and destroying environments. There has never been a story in the franchise that has taken revolutionary ideas and go, "Let's turn this into the bad guy."

[@zadig08]

Lmfao, did not expect to see a sonic stan in here.

[@playdischord1791]

Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if the comics did a storyline like that though.

[@julianjpantoja4603]

Sonic fans are NOT convincing me Sonic is any deeper than what it is

[@nicolasnamed]

​@@julianjpantoja4603 Someone hasn't read the comics!

[@FresasAgrias]

sonic fans will truly find any excuse to talk about sonic the hedgehog. and me too sonic is cool

[@Alvxlw]

Honorable mention: Magneto and Mystique are comrades

[@rayhanes1347]

This reminds me of a film called "A soldiers story" which started Howard Rollins. He film also starred Denzel Washington before he blew up. Another legendary actor in the film was Adolph Caeser and he was the antagonist or villian but when I got older I began to look at him differently. He was right all along. Everyone should watch the film.