We have a paddle problem

[@AdventureOtaku]

Hey everyone, thanks for all the comments. I want to point out something I should have said in the video. This isn't about "I need a paddle." this is about the state of paddle industry and will happen if these two companies leave a void. Yes, there are a bunch of other paddle companies but in my opinion no one is doing it better than these two companies - at least of the paddles I have used that made in North America. There are some smaller brands I haven't paddled. But I would be happy to if they sent me a paddle. But if these two companies falter, it is going to lower the bar for quality and design across the entire industry. That was my point.

[@thepieman2742]

Interesting scenario indeed.

[@paulyg743]

Never fear, the UK is here. Over the pond we have 4 quality sea kayak manufacturers - SKUK(formerly Nigel Dennis Kayaks), P&H, Valley and Northshore - as well as boutique makers like Big Pond on the Isle of Man. SKUK also make Celtic paddles after buying Lendal Scotland, and then there are equipment manufacturers like Peak UK and Palm - the owner of Vertical Elements paddles. Hoping we got this covered.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I’d really like a valley… I’ll be in the uk in January and think I might bring back a paddle.

[@NickSchade]

It is a long standing concern of mine that manufactures of top end sea kayaking equipment have a hard time surviving in North America. There used to be a long list of companies making a great selection of composite sea kayaks with national reach: Easy Rider, Eddyline, Current Designs, Wilderness Systems, Seda, Seaward, Mariner, Dagger, Necky, Pacific Watersports, Betsy Bay, Lincoln, West Side Boats, Impex, Boreal and probably more that I can't remember. There were more that were making very capably rotomolded full-on sea kayaks. Many of these are now gone. Others have been absorbed by conglomerates but barely dip a toe into the sea kayak market or don't address sea kayaks at all. Some brands still exist but are super local brands with little visibility outside their local region, or are boutique brands. Some exist as brands that offer composite sea kayaks on special order, but don't actively produce them. Some exist on paper, but don't really seem to be active. While roto-molded and vacuum-formed fill a necessary market for entry-level and affordable kayaks, they don't really fit the needs of paddlers looking to take the experiences to the highest level. And even some of those are no longer going to be made in north America. I would be interested if anybody has purchased a newly built North American made composite sea kayak from any of the above companies in the past year. There are a couple newer companies trying to fill the void, but it is a hard row to hoe given the quality and quantity of internationally manufactured sea kayaks, such as UKSK, P&H, Stellar, etc. For sea kayaking to thrive as a sport, we need enthusiastic companies making high quality equipment. While we can just buy from some international brand (Celtic, Segla, Gearlab, etc making paddles), but I don't know that they will necessarily innovate to fit our needs. International manufactures have advantages that US companies don't. The UK has a robust, national club system promoting paddle sports. Other countries have low labor costs. These make it hard for local companies to compete. I agree that changes and Werner and Lendal are concerning. I build my own boats and paddles, so this situation doesn't directly impact me, but it is not a sign of a healthy sea kayak market.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I don’t disagree with any of this. I paddled seaward at NOLS and really loved them. I know that they buy boats every year from seaward (they have the largest fleet of seawards in the world) But I am with you on all the others (I will confess I don’t know easy rider, Betsy bay or West side…)

[@NickSchade]

@@AdventureOtaku Seaward used to come out to the Castine Sea Kayak Symposium up in Maine, but I don’t know that I have seen one being paddled here on the east coast, unless it was one of their Nigel Foster designs. But basically they don’t have a presence here. West Side Boats mostly made racing kayaks, but a few designs were sea kayaks. Joey at Turning Point made a few after the original builder retired. Betsy Bay specialized in Greenland Style kayaks, they stopped building kayaks a few years ago. Easy Rider was one of the original big names in sea kayaks, but they dropped off my radar years ago. Current Designs was a fairly national brand, they technically still exist, but the brand was sold by Wenonah, and I’m not sure the new owners have gotten production restarted yet. Eddyline still exists but only do vacuum form and are apparently moving production out of the country.

[@beezknows]

Wow, I just finally ordered an all carbon fiber Werner paddle yesterday after a lot of back and forth about spending the money. This makes me feel better about my decision!

[@AdventureOtaku]

Agreed. Good call.

[@kathleenarchambeau7592]

Thanks for the heads up, brought that second Werner paddle before things change😊

[@AdventureOtaku]

No problem 👍 we should probably all be stockpiling paddles for a little while.

[@craignelson3566]

I paddle a low angle carbon Werner and Aqua Bound Tango, they have similar blade shape, weight, and shaft stiffness. I feel both are very good paddles, if price is an important factor Aqua Bound Tango wins. Touring kayaking ten plus miles is all about having a good quality light weight paddle (saves shoulders) below 26oz and light weight kayak (loading/water speed) under 48lbs, hull width of about 22" and hull water line length of about 16' long.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Yeah I need to try the tango.

[@maxinemead8918]

I've drunk the Greenland paddle Kool-Aid ;) so I almost never paddle with a Euro blade nowadays, but I do have a Werner Athena and a Werner . . . Camano, I think? from maybe 5-6 years ago. I might take another look and get another one (maybe in a different length) just in case . . .

[@username-rd7ju]

Greenlandpaddle coolaid😆👌

[@AdventureOtaku]

Ya know how it played out for those kool aid people right?

[@maxinemead8918]

@@AdventureOtaku :D :D :D yep!

[@RobBrown2288]

Jackson buying Werner doesn’t concern me as much as it would if, say, Pelican bought them (Pelican buying Confluence is more of a concern for me). Potentially good news for Aqua Bound, which is owned by Bending Branches. The only surprising thing to me is that small, profitable, independent companies that operate within large industries have actually remained independent this long.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Thank you for new nightmare fodder….Pelican buying confluence will now be keeping me up at night.

[@jerrys576]

@@AdventureOtaku You did not know? Oh it's been a nightmare to get Info on Perception yaks.You cant call the SC office. All calls go to Canada.

[@AdventureOtaku]

@@jerrys576 no...I did not know this. But I know a dealer who works with confluence a lot. I'll touch base with him.... crazy.

[@scottpiner2149]

Yeah, Pelican bought Confluence back in 2019

[@RobBrown2288]

@@scottpiner2149 I did not know it was that long ago. I just took notice, while browsing Confluences product line recently, of the "Pelicanized" color options on Dagger's lineup.

[@Heavenly-Yaking-f3d]

I attempted to order a Lendal Voyager but the web site wouldn’t even accept my mouse click on the order it on. This happened around the same time that all the computers went down around the world, I figured that was the issue. I was waiting until the first of the month to try again, I’m very disappointed like you to hear all of this. I do currently own a Werner Kalliste, looks like it might be time to order another.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Well, I just went to their site, and it looks like you can order one…. If you do I would love to know what delivery date you get.

[@kdogg7882]

I have the carbon shaft paddle from Sea Eagle and have been debating how much a brand name paddle would help. I wonder how it compares to something like Werner

[@AdventureOtaku]

I haven't paddled with one, so I can't say. But I can say it takes more than making a paddle out of carbon to be a great paddle. There is a level of knowledge, design and care that goes into it.

[@georgemorcom9700]

I’ve been a Werner customer for a long time and even a dealer in the early 90’s. This is very disheartening. It seems that every time a company is acquired by another in the paddlesports world, they get phased out in a little while. Not only are we potentially losing a great paddle company, what about repairs. I recently broke my Kalliste and I immediately contacted Werner. They quickly repaired it and returned it to me for what I considered a reasonable price. Dane Jackson is a Werner user himself and that’s good given he is world class, however he is whitewater. I just purchased an Athena and so glad I did. Tempted to buy more paddles. Thank you for sharing this information on Werner and also Lendal. What about VE?

[@AdventureOtaku]

"It seems that every time a company is acquired by another in the paddlesports world, they get phased out in a little while." Exactly my point. Yeah, there are a handful of other brands that could fill the void. When I am in the market I'll check them out. But here is the thing. This isn't about "I need a paddle" it's about the state of the industry. One of those little companies isn't going to fill Werners shoes in terms of sales. It's going to lower the bar for quality across the board.

[@superfly9478]

glad i got an aquabound tango... looked hard at werner, but got a deal on the tango, sad to hear when big business buys up the innovative young businesses

[@AdventureOtaku]

I guess I need to start paddling some aquabounds….

[@jerrys576]

Aqua-Bound best paddle $$ can buy. You wont be sorry.

[@barry4fish19]

Aquabound does not make an all-carbon paddle with a blade that has a smooth back face. Werner has at least 5 or 6 models that do, some like them better for smoothness and less cavitation during blade entry.

[@Neragera]

I placed an order with Lendal today for one of their Storm paddles. The order went through without a hitch. This video makes me worry, however.

[@AdventureOtaku]

That is very surprising because after I released this video I got an email from their director of sales who said he didn’t disagree with anything in the video. Let me know when you get it. He did say they had a very small inventory and I would bet (but I don’t know) that they had storms. Their most popular paddle.

[@viaujoc]

I don't think that Jackson has any incentive to shut down Werner because they are not currently, like you said, competing for the same market. I see this acquisition as a way for Jackson to make Werner more cost effective (and profitable) by merging their administrative services and supply chain. They can also combine both products distribution networks in order to get a larger market penetration for both brands, it is a win-win situation. By doing that, they create better market conditions to compete against AquaBound. As for the Werner brand, it is so widely know in the kayaking world that, I think, it would be a mistake for Jackson to kill it and replace it with Jackson's name. However, I would not be surprised to see that the Werner logo on the paddles will change from "Werner" to something like "Werner by Jackson kayaks". As for the move from WA to TN, summer is probably the best timing to do it because their stock sold for the summer season was manufactured during the winter, so their production is currently in its off-season. This is just like halloween candies, they are made in March and April. Unlike you, I am not worried about Werner's paddles future.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I hope you are right, I would be happy to be wrong. Time will tell.

[@viaujoc]

@@AdventureOtaku Have you tried Select Paddles? It is a French company but their products are sold in the US too.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I haven’t but I’ll look for them. I need to try the high end aqua bound (the tango maybe?) a bunch of people have said how much they like it.

[@tommycheshire5508]

I have noticed in the last few years the that sea kayaking seemed to be getting pushed out the door. I subscribed, about seven years ago, to a publication that review all sorts of kayaking gear. Every category was covered in these reviews, whitewater, canoes, paddles, helmets, and just about anything related to water sports. There were manufacturers listed their new boats with the usual descriptions and promises. That most current issue had almost nothing about sit inside kayaks not a comprehension review of any products that I would use. There was no Current Design, no P&H boats, and very little Wilderness System boats. I can see the door closing for sea kayaks. I predict that in five years that sea kayaks will be gone and all there will be is rec kayaks.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Check out this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/q2S8fp1jiKlgaaMsi=rSSLW79naWjdXEXR I essentially agree…. 5 years may be a little quick. But yeah. We have a problem.

[@Kayaking_to_escape_family]

I hate to say this but its a life style issue. You cant get a fat man in sea kayak with a max paddler weight of 100kg. And I feel this is the reason few people are buying sea kayaks. I cant think of anyone who's designing 4+ meter kayak's which allows a person with 90cm waist. I'd love to own a surf ski, but I'm never going to fit in it. I think you will see more sit on kayaks like Perceptions triumph at 4 meters and take's 160kg taking over but even this is a bit too small for the US market. I feel this is the main reason rec kayaks are taking over, they can take the weight and waist of most people. The kayak industry need to wake up to the fact there target group is overweight men and start building kayaks for them.

[@Danthemant1000]

They just updated their IG.

[@AdventureOtaku]

except it is a repost from another account about a paddling clinic. I did see that their website says they will be moving into a new facility on October 15th. So I am hopeful.

[@raynorgilliam1055]

Commenting completely off subject of this video but you mentioned video ideas. Need help with local kayak community. I have it set in my mind that I want to make the Harkers to Shackleford/Cape Lookout trip. I have 0 friends that are interested in such adventures and sea kayaking. I seem to lean more towards going alone because I focus better that way it seems. Im just not sure if this is a trip I should do alone. The idea of just meeting up with someone randomly from a kayaking FB group page to go on a coastal kayak camping trip just seems uncomfortable. Should I feel differently? Is it normal or ok to go alone? Should I seek out people to make these trips with and if so how?

[@AdventureOtaku]

Just got off the water, and am seeing this for the first time. Email me. BrettATadventureotaku.com. I can give you a lot of beta on cape lookout. And I have some thoughts on doing it alone.

[@RayFreemanleftcoastinsights]

Aqua Bound, Nimbus, GearLab, Kajak Sport, Blackwater, Bending Branches, Riot, Accent…some other options.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Aqua bound and Bending branches are the same company. Kayak sport only makes Greenland, I paddled Nimbus with NOLS and wasn't impressed. I hadn't heard of Blackwater, when it's time for a paddle I would give them a shot.

[@RayFreemanleftcoastinsights]

Aqua Bound also makes high quality performance touring paddles. GearLab (like Kayak Sport) also only makes Greenland style paddles. I use Werner, GearLab, and still have some older Current Designs carbon paddles. I’m confident market demand for higher end paddles will create supply.

[@AdventureOtaku]

@@RayFreemanleftcoastinsights yeah, I need to test the Aqua Bound Tango. In the past I haven’t liked the Aqua bounds, but its been a while. In regards to supply/demand, I hope so….

[@maxinemead8918]

@@RayFreemanleftcoastinsights And GearLab isn't North American, which was what this video was focused on

[@RayFreemanleftcoastinsights]

And neither is Lendal.

[@lenjanssen9600]

Is there a reason you don't mention AquaBound? I've been paddling them and their high end paddles are great.

[@AdventureOtaku]

In fairness, I haven’t paddled an aquabound in a while. But I haven’t paddled an aquabound in a while becuase my experiences with them were HORRIBLE. I should probably buy one and do a test.

[@kdogg7882]

In one video he said he doesn’t like how they snap together

[@lenjanssen9600]

@@AdventureOtaku What was so horrible about them? Curious

[@AdventureOtaku]

@@lenjanssen9600 they were heavy, the joint in the center was clunky. And the build quality wasn’t great.

[@kdogg7882]

@@AdventureOtaku I have a carbon Sea Eagle paddle. I’ve wondered how they compare to these more expensive ones

[@lauraphillips6512]

I’m concerned that Jackson will pull Werner out of the small shops like they did their kayaks. That would definitely make a difference in the ability to buy a good NA made paddle. Lendal has a great paddle, however, with the slow production and now no production; I don’t see them surviving.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I share both of these concerns

[@prophecy66]

Interesting, around where I live the only place I can find Jackson Kayaks is at an outfitters and not big box stores.

[@barry4fish19]

@@prophecy66They do have the Journey as their touring kayak, it has no skeg and not very good tracking, but some instructors do use them in classes. Also there is the Tupelo 12.5, you can edge turn with it, but certainly not a real touring kayak. One could be an optimist and assume Jackson would now design a real touring kayak, but they probably see that as a really small market for what they are used to doing.

[@swimrski]

So, I'm going to be VERY VERY careful with my Werner paddles

[@AdventureOtaku]

ive never actually broken a paddle, so I wouldn't be too worried....but yeah

[@swimrski]

@@AdventureOtaku Neither have I, but I've seen other people break them

[@prophecy66]

I'm not sure im concerned about Werner paddles no longer being available or no longer being a high end option because of the purchase by Jackson. Werner paddles are used by pretty much every whitewater kayaker I've seen, and I imagine Jackson bought them for that reason. I doubt they would stop making sea kayaking paddles as well, given they're pretty popular and there isn't a ton of competition at the high end in North America. I'm not a business person but it doesn't make much sense to me to buy up a well known, successful company just to stop making their products. I could see that happening if Jackson was making a competing paddle and bought out the competition.

[@AdventureOtaku]

In reverse order, Patagonia bought Lotus Designs and shut it down a year or two later. That is just off the top of my head but I am sure there are other examples. Eric (or was it Dane?) partnered with Werner to make whitewater paddles per their designs. But what I said was, we wont see similar innovation in sea kayaking going forward. I would also be willing to bet that the ratio of sales for sea kayaking paddles to white water is 1:10….. but I don’t have data to support that.

[@prophecy66]

@@AdventureOtaku hmm perhaps the innovation could stop in North America, but there are British companies making paddles still. Lendal isn't out of business yet either, so while no production is a concern, I wouldn't count them out just yet. As for lotus, the original founder then went on to make astral. Whenever there is a gap in a market it tends to get filled. So even if Werner stops innovating, which to be honest I'm not sure they've done much in that department lately anyways, another company may pop up in it's place. I think it was Dane who partnered for whitewater paddles. Eric hasn't really done anything with Jackson Kayaks for some time, now running his own company apex while his kids control Jackson.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Im not counting them out, and confessed in the video I know nothing about running a big business. So maybe they will be fine. But the finances of it dont make sense to me.

[@prophecy66]

@@AdventureOtaku I don't disagree there, not having product to sell for a year doesn't sound good. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[@roastawk]

What a winning streak. First again!

[@AdventureOtaku]

Dude. You’re outta control

[@Dagh1]

Tales of your exploits will be told for generations!

[@Kayaking_to_escape_family]

Have you hack his computer or just watch him thru the window?

[@Simon_W74]

I was caught sleeping again. One of those involuntary ones, where your only aware when you wake up kind.

[@Thomas-h4n5h]

Jackson will either continue innovating in the sea kayak paddle arena, or they'll lose to competition overseas. I think that, as a company, they know that they need to continue innovating, and that this means having more than just whitewater people involved.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Let’s hope.

[@Kayaking_to_escape_family]

There is no issue with Werner paddles right now. They wont lose the brand name, it would cost them way too much in sales. The overseas export market makes up a lot of Werner business. Who would buy a Jackson paddle? Outside the North America there relativity unknown. I cant remember ever seeing a Jackson kayak in the UK or EU. I feel it will take Jacksons a min of 10 years to establish the new name brand outside America. Lendal seem to always be in trouble. I feel they will go back to making paddles at Celtics factory in Holyhead, Wales. If I was looking for a new paddle, it would have to be the VE Aircore Vanda. I did try out the old model VE Aircore Fara and love it. I'd email VE and get a paddle on loan to try out. I'm not sure if they export them to North America yet but they may want to break into that market. There selling in the UK at £430... about £40 more than the Werner Camano Straight Carbon. But the main question is what to do about cheap Chinese paddles? They're starting to pop up on a few suppliers webs sites in the UK. I've just look at a Chinese crank shaft carbon fibre kayak paddle selling for £325 on UK site. Its about £200 saving.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I said 36 months on a name change. We will see. Though the export part is valid. I didnt take that into consideration. Lendal NA is a completely seperate company from what was Lendal UK. They bought the name, but not the designs. So they cant go back to Wales because they didn’t come from Wales. I found out last night, I think I am headed to the UK in January. I immediately decided I was bringing a paddle back with me. I’ll look at the Vanda’s. Thanks .

[@Kayaking_to_escape_family]

@@AdventureOtaku If your coming to the UK, take the factory tours. VE, Celtic or even Ainsworth wont mind if you pop in. Its how things work here. They will make you a nice cup of tea too. You'll be surprised how many paddles they sell this way.

[@AdventureOtaku]

@@Kayaking_to_escape_family thank you, that is a great tip. I need to start researching.

[@markkinnard796]

Sea kayaking is a dying sport. I am 63 and all I see are guys older than me or young people with a guide.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I did a video about it.... yup... Im working hard to save it.

[@RobBrown2288]

Dane Jackson is the Michael Jordan of whitewater. Eric was the Dr. J.😎

[@AdventureOtaku]

Yeah, this is on the money. Thank you. But then who was Kareem?

[@Usonian7]

Those weren't kids were chomping at the but to sell the company. So sad

[@AdventureOtaku]

Yeah… I suspect you are right.

[@Simon_W74]

I was only just looking at Werner Paddles this past week. As I was looking at an Alternative paddle to Celtic, if they came back with a very high price. I was looking at the Corryvreckan as it has a similar blade size to what I already use. Luckily it turns out the Celtic even being custom made for my is slightly cheaper then the Corryvreckan at it's discounted price from my local Canoe Shop. By the time I am ready to buy one there could be potential supply issue with a move of production, and that will see any discounts gone our of the window. As supply isn't that great from looking around at different outlets for the best price and many didn't have the length of paddle I want. It would have to be ordered in. It will not be the last time a company has bought out another brand and changed things. Apple and Beats is a good example. Even Lendal USA are different to Lendal that I have, and it is over 12 years ago that Nigel Denis started making Celtic Paddles which are basically the same style as Lendal Paddles when they were made in Scotland. Hopefully Jackson will continue to Produce Werner Paddles to the same level of Quality they are known for, and continue to push innovation and bringing us new and better products. Which brings to mind your pervious video where innovation is pushed by smaller companies, and not by large companies that acquire smaller companies. In regard to Lendal Paddles USA, you would have thought that they would have found somewhere to start production by now as the longer it goes one and the coast of retaining staff can not be sustained for the long term without damaging the brand as people will simply look at other brands like Aqua Bound and Werner if they keep production the same. Very interesting Video Brett.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Yeah, if I was in the UK I don't think I would buy a Werner either. I really hope Lendal can pull it off, but I think it's gonna be a challenge.

[@Simon_W74]

@@AdventureOtaku We do have a few Paddle makers here, but for what I am looking at for I narrowed it down to Celtic because they are the closest to Lendal and Werner as they offer the length I want without going custom. Plus I line clean lines, I am not keen on Lever Lock or the ferrel system that Aqua Bound use or similar joining systems. After watching your video I ended up looking into Lendal and Alastair Wilson. I once again found his videos on here from 16 years ago. which would have been in the latter years of Him and His Wife Marianne still being the owners of Lendal Paddles. Which then lead me to watch one of your videos from Last year The Prince William Sound on with Nols. very enjoyable. so If you keep seen random likes coming up on your previous videos, it is only me.

[@AdventureOtaku]

@@Simon_W74 I appreciate all the likes!

[@davidmanevich1040]

Ive been wanting to buy a werner camano in 220cm saw one with a mountain scene in REI but at the time i couldnt justify almost 500 for the paddle at the time

[@AdventureOtaku]

(Whispering) shhhh….it’s time…..

[@n-da-bunka2650]

Why are you COMPLETELY ignoring "Bending Branches" paddles?

[@AdventureOtaku]

A couple of reasons. Bending branches doesn't really make the kind of paddle I use. BB is primarily known in the canoe world, they do make two touring paddles neither of which are full carbon. Aqua bound, who is owned by BB does make full carbon but my experiences with them in the past haven't been great. But I stated in another comment that I should probably give them another try because it has been a while.

[@n-da-bunka2650]

@@AdventureOtaku Thanks for the quick and informative reply. Their carbon or Kevlar shaft with the wood blades seems to be popular with a number of other KZbin kayak channels as the wood helps it pop out of the water after the stroke so it is one that I have been considering. Thanks for the great content and insights into this industry

[@AdventureOtaku]

@@n-da-bunka2650 You are so welcome. I don’t like that wood “pop” I had a Werner with foam core inside the blade to get that same pop and because I use a really loose grip on the paddle (which is common in long distance touring) the blade can wiggle in the water, which I don’t like. The wood is also about 4 ounces heavier than the all carbon paddle I use now. 4 ounces doesn’t seem like a lot, but it adds up. Thanks for watching! These were great questions.

[@shaneshankly4518]

No idea why werner are so highly rated ?? Their connection in two piece paddle is awful I will NEVER buy another

[@AdventureOtaku]

Ive had zero issues with the connection on any of my Werners. And we used the Skagit at REI where they got ABUSED by people. But, to each his own.

[@shaneshankly4518]

@@AdventureOtaku ABUSED ABUSED ???? I bought a Ikelos their top paddle and certainly wasn't ABUSED and after being used 5 times it broke . I know many other's who haven't ABUSED them which also broke . Hopefully Jackson s will bring their faults up to stamdard

[@AdventureOtaku]

@@shaneshankly4518 sorry that was your experience. it hasn't been mine.