We need to talk about mage items | League of Legends

(Check pinned comment) Mages quite literally don't have enough item slots to have any build variety, time to discuss why that is and how it could be changed.
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[@minimoYT]

So guys, we did it. We got mage item changes: twitter.com/Spideraxe30/status/1726639865717203321

[@rosao6997]

And apparently they are the opposite of what you were trying to say in this video... They are just making the problem even worse...

[@minimoYT]

@@rosao6997 I think they were spot-on tbh. My main problem is current mage items being just stats, the new ones, like Cryptbloom and reworked Shadowflame have real unique passives that you can't just replicate with raw stats

[@lucassanto3392]

I love playing as a mage, most of my main champions are mages. But I feel desapointed how a class that have a great variability of playstyles just have "one build path" that is rlly good. I expect that riot change this and make a variability in mage's build path. And I also miss the rilay+imperial mandate in azir, even though this was an error.

[@laerson123]

Well, tbf it is somehow better to have the playstyle be defined by the champion, than the build path. Think about it, which is worst? Two different champions of the same class having different gameplays even with the same build, or two different champions that are supposed to fill different niches doing the same thing if they build the same core itens? If the playstyle is defined by the build, you get the problem that the strength of the champion is more inclined to whom can abuse better those more cost effective itens, and midlane casters are one of the least affected roles by this issue (only second to junglers). The only reason we do not have the same diversity on AP champions as we do on AD champions, is because mages don't have the issue of having a specific subclass that RIOT wants to buff with items, without buffing another subclass. TBH, the whole issue of itemization is due to design philosophy that they've been following since S3 to create itens that enforce the established meta, and modifying things whenever something that devies from the meta gets popular.

[@aurah8245]

Wait till you hear about the other classes of champs who have even less variability 👍 Adcs have less options to build and the only one who can flex builds well is Kaisa. Assassins are practically locked into 2 builds right now because the variation is so bad and half of the assassin items are useless. Mages have the most items and the most broken items aswell

[@Chaslayer]

Bro rylai mandat Azir were disgusting play him with normal build

[@Lyres-Liar-In-The-Lair]

​​@@aurah8245...mages need the most items, because they have 5 different subclasses that all share the same items. ADCs are by default, a role that's exclusive to dealing damage, so their items can only allocate that, because otherwise they just gain such a massive amount of importance that a game centers around them (now is a almost good example, but its no ardent meta) Assassins build on the same principle of a mage, they adapt their build into specific situations. They are not useless, simply not bruiser levels of universal, as every class should have

[@billybobbobson3797]

​@aurah8245 here come the adcs to batch and cry. You guys get complimentary reach around from riot nonstop and STILL cry and moan about your class. You have numerous options.

[@igorlopesribeiro8781]

Ive been always so used to building the same items every match that i never realized that was the case lol

[@alexursu4403]

Tank support here and it's no different.

[@dde8721]

​@@alexursu4403it's sad because even if you wanted to build other items you literally can't. They don't exist. You have like 3 items to choose from

[@HelpMeFindMyDad]

You don't need to build any other items. So much damage and utility to be had from them. Only reason people don't build anything else is because it's just that broken

[@sylent0253]

rylai and void staff being 1 item for assasins - serylda is such a spit in mage's face

[@nghiatrantrung834]

Bro the item is expensive as fuck and everyone has higher armor than MR and as everyone know, AP hit harder than AD always. And with the ammount of useless MR item, Serylda isnt a problem, it's like a must have or else AD arent doing any damage because the lowest armor at lvl18 is already 105

[@puddingcomet7325]

@@nghiatrantrung834 MR items arent trash, you literally need only one MR item and every Mage needs a void stuff to do anything to you..

[@degenxayah]

​​@@puddingcomet7325 and who gets to build these items? Tanks and bruisers? AD assassins? I think pretty much all MR items are useless outside of stuff like Spirit Visage and Force of Nature. Wits End only works on specific AA champs and Maw basically provides nothing but an AP shield. Merc Scim gives practically no MR and is just a qss with crit chance, Abyssal Mask is only good if you deal AP damage, merc treads are for tenacity not the MR Anytime you build an MR item you either were getting it anyways for a different reason or are shooting your build in the foot to slow down one or two guys. MR items are only worth going off build vs 4 ap comps.

[@puddingcomet7325]

@@degenxayah Merc Treads are still so underreated, i see a lot of high elo player rushing it because the 25 mr is enough to survive a lot of bursts in the early/mid game. Building it early vs Leblanc for example and she is literally f.. most of the time i see Toplaner, Jungle and Support building one Mr item and its enough to feel useless as a Mage when you dont have a void staff but to actually do something with void you stll need DC because otherwise your AP is so low that you dont deal any dmg. The Problem is as the Mage you pretty much always need 3 items (Mythic, DC and void) to feel impactful and you dont really have a voice to build something else

[@OdysseyNaafiri]

​@@puddingcomet7325 we need ap bruiser items. That's what we need. If a vayne can build hydra then so should mages

[@sentireswastaken]

Unpopular take, demonic should be reworked entirely into a bruiser item. Most non-bruiser AP champs also build liandrys, but it’s just a weird unnecessary double-up. If they were unique passives like spellblade, lifeline and etc, then the items and champs could be adjusted to accomodate this

[@NRVNQSRR]

Yeah, I mean.. Demonic used to give you stacking MR for hitting someone consistently, so..

[@errorman1217]

Cho'gath with stacked R, Heartsteel and Demonic Embrace = real monster. In my opinion Demonic has sense at very little number of AP champions (for example mentioned Cho'gath, Swain, Akali under specific condition , Vladimir)

[@_sanygame_921]

Most mages are not even building it, except if you have built-in Liandry in your kit (Malzahar, Teemo, Lillia, Brand) to infinently proc it, and sometimes it still considered situational on them, or if you are a bruiser mage (Vladimir, Swain, etc.). It's most abused by tank mages like Amumu, Maokai, Cho, Zac, Tank Shyvanna and etc. because it gives you both damage and survivability, so calling it a bruiser item is not far from true

[@sentireswastaken]

@@_sanygame_921 I was mainly referring to those champs with built in burn, yeah

[@guifdcanalli]

i guess the main problem here is the fact what makes demonic difficult to balance rn are tanks and bruisers that build it, Maokai Morde and Chogath usually abuse the item, and they had to nerf both meele burn and HP convertion some times already champs like Malz, Zyra and Brand wont take too much of the item anyway

[@yohamida3624]

I am so glad to see people acknowledging the issues that Rabadon generates. I've thought for several years now that Rabadon should get "split" among other offensive items, that Void Staff should get derivatives like Last Whisper did with Dominik and Mortal Reminder, and also that Zhonia needs a deeper look at, its effect is so strong that you hesitate to do it even when you're against more AP than AD. Nonetheless I've got to admit Riot at least improved the first items recently with RoA, Seraph, Rylai, Cosmic Drive, Horizon and even Demonic. From my point of view as an Ekko main, the itemization for ranged mages got significantly better and I'm almost jealous since I (almost) didn't change a thing in my build since season 8 (idk how protobelt survived this long when Stride and Prowler's dash already got removed).

[@azaphakaylock2789]

Protobelt is here to stay and I doubt its going, I don't think its even fair to compare it to stride or prowlers. the Issues stride had was it was giving champions that are balanced by limited mobility a great gap closers while still providing good bruiser stats, Prowlers was an issue because the champions that used it already have at least 1 if not more dashes already since assassins typically get S tire mobility already Mages and marksmen have way less abuse to a mobility item, I can't think of a champion that truly makes rocketbelt broken or galeforce.

[@jimk.9959]

​@@azaphakaylock2789 Galeforce is giga cancer on Yone/Yasuo

[@xolotltolox7626]

​​@@azaphakaylock2789rotobelt has a 40s cooldown on its Dash... Don't tell me that isn't fucking retrded

[@danielb.3515]

@@azaphakaylock2789ekko ‘low mobility’ XD

[@azaphakaylock2789]

@@danielb.3515 Ekko is a mobile burst assassin, respectfully he's a melee champ with a burst and get out . he doestn' represent the rest of the AP roster that well

[@capt0range162]

I used to play Mages like crazy, but then I played one game of Gangplank and the amount of builds he could go, while also being effectively an AD burst mage was crazy. Now I only play Gangplank while only occasionally playing mages

[@yoshiagiota5299]

Rabadon's passive should be a mythic passive that scales along your build, so rabadon could cease to exist and mages would actually get to choose items

[@joaquincaceresguibovich3182]

If that's the case they should at least add around 6 new items to give variability

[@guifdcanalli]

the problem is: adcs have both guinsoo, quickblades and galeforce to choose besides IE, yet 90% of the adcs will build Guinsoo or IE, and thats mainly because Guinsoo is completely broken RN, or else IE play rate would be even higher, as its just a fundamental item to make damage, on a class that wants damage Now imagine this same change on a class like mages where damage is also essential, but without any kind of counterpart the have in the ADCs, EVERY SINGLE CHAMP would build the mythic that has the rabadon passive

[@matheusmattos8196]

@@guifdcanalli i dont see any adc building IE in my games the item is garbage the few adcs who could pick it prefer to build galeforce for his busted active

[@marixsunnyotp3142]

​@@guifdcanallinever saw an IE in my games

[@kwestionablplus]

just make deathcap a mythic and replace a bunch of mythics with other items like they did with ADCs

[@trireme5276]

This is exactly why Veigar is the only mage I play nowadays. His passive lets you build utility/tank items while still having meaningful damage. "Want to be bruiser-y and survive assassin burst? RoA and Seraph's coming right up!" "One enemy is too fed? Anathema's Chains that is!" "Enemies are mostly AD and you also want to run fast? Go Dead Man's Plate!" "Enemy AP is too strong? Abyssal Mask will help!" "You want your autos to add to the burst? Lichbane/Statikk/Stormrazor, pick one or all!"

[@tcs.eldavido701]

Shhh, we aren't supposed to talk about the forbidden Dead Man's tech.

[@H2SO4pyro]

Every single game I just build lost chapter > tier one boots (predator) > rabadon > statikk lmaoo

[@ajakayejoshua9886]

I picked up viegar lately, I'm gonna screenshot this.. thanks alot man

[@DJ-wy6vq]

@@ajakayejoshua9886 this is an int build fyi but go off

[@Dnzn]

thats so cringe

[@floofzykitty5072]

I feel like Rabadons has the same issue Fireball has in D&D. It's so iconic that if you make ANY significant changes to it, people are frothing and foaming at the mouth in anger that their beloved isn't how they remember, and how "it was better in the good old days". It doesn't matter that these both are causing problems in the game and the game would be healthier with changes to these problematic aspects, the most they could do to Rabadons other than slightly tweaking the numbers is change its' art and even then PEOPLE STILL COMPLAINED. It's almost like an item that has remained basically unchanged because it's placed on a pedestal throughout a highly lucrative and ever-evolving game will cause issues.

[@kwestionablplus]

just do to deathcap as they did to infinity edge

[@NineTailedVesani]

Honestly, it doesn't stop them. There is tons of items that was right out removed regardless of its popularity with the players.

[@krovlood]

​@@NineTailedVesanithank you Deathfire Grasp RIP

[@InquisitorShepard]

That's why you add consequences for using fireball. Or more preciselyz you add consequences when they use it without thinking. Use it in a city/village? Congratulation you set fire to everything around the zone of impact, and now some people who saw you call the guard, and you got to pay reparations Konosuba style. You use fireball in a big? Well you just set fire to a pocket of methane and your front liners now lost HP because it blew in their faces. Use it at sea? Well your boat is on fire, and the captain wants to keelhaul you. This spell has some uses but you got to take in consideration where you use it. Of course deathcap doesn't have this level of customisation a DM can give to a story but this was just about fireball specifically

[@racoonmaster5713]

i almost always play ap champs, so when I'm in aram and am forced to play a tank or an ad champ, I'm always surprised at how much build diversity there is for them, it feels like you can build so many different things for them and have them work, while with the characters i play... the only choices are if i want the burn build (liandry and demonic), the burst build (ludens and shadowflame) or the terrible build (anything else, really)

[@mylynguyen6512]

I love thé terrible build ! RoA Seraph's Embrace 🎉

[@forest-goddess]

so real, i've always had the reverse, honestly, the main thing that put me off playing mages is how little build variation there is. i started as a hecarim main and he could build anything from utility tank to full damage. i mostly play bruisers and when i'm forced onto mage in aram i always get so sad at how little options i have compared to if i was a renekton or a zed or a lucian, lol

[@adrianramos11]

I totally agree with every point. Mages need some different options depending on the enemy. I play with the exact same items every game except sometimes I get to choose between zhonya or banshee for 2 extra sec to survive against these overpowered assassins and bruisers. also if I play long ranged mage like lux or xerath I have to get fed and play extremely good or have bad opponents to be able to win and even if I get 10/0 I still I get one shot by 0/10 talon or riven once they get 2 items. as a mage lover in every game, league is the game I have the least fun playing as a mage in it.

[@minimoYT]

Lux is crazy though, you could be 20/0, full build at 15 minutes, and if you miss one (1) skill shot, you're probably dead. Can only kill people when ult is up, and her skill shots are bizarrely easy to avoid after laning is over, so you can only fish for Qs from out of vision. Shadow Wizard Money Gang really does feel bad in League 😢

[@stealthgamer4620]

⁠@@minimoYT It was a scary time tho when Lux could have ult on a 30 second as a legitimate build. could ult wave and have ult up for a soon team fight. ik that’s not the point but yea.

[@Bad_Posture_]

​@@stealthgamer4620 wait... That's her legit rn. Lvl 2 R and 2-3 items in lol

[@fabiangonzalezreyes]

@@stealthgamer4620 I play lux and if you go ultimate hunter + 1 cdr item you have ult around every 25 sec in late game

[@vultionsin3028]

almost every champ from 2011 has insanely low ult cooldowns and odd ratios that SHOULD be changed to fit the design of league in the current. i feel like they should forsake adding new champions for a year or two and focus instead on updating these old champions to the standard so that they dont feel so ancient to play with

[@Beahemoth]

I just love how there's a ton of AD armor items but barely any AP armor items- and force of nature got a pretty big nerf

[@espinozamarko6118]

Yeah, but Is also undeniable that first there has to be a separation for battle mages, long range mages having access to good defensive options would be a whole lot of cancer. The problem is not really lacking defensive options, is the easiness of people to get on top of you, If a mage fails their cc they're fucked. But giving them range would be too much of an advantage if they're ahead or even neutral. It's a complicated issue.

[@angelmarinos3910]

Whatchu mean? Deaths dance and thats about it

[@trafalgarlaw8373]

"A ton" Deaths dance, hullbreaker and GA. GA sucks and is never built, hullbreaker is for splitpushers not adcs or so, and deaths dance is solid. Meanwhile ap has zhonias in turn. It's pretty even.

[@ruinxd3925]

​@@angelmarinos3910 50 armour item , mainly catered against ad champs ap champs can build zonyahs,evershroud etc. ad champs can legit only build wits end (3100 gold for 40 mr, 900 gold cloak gives 50) and seryldas (most fighters dont go this either.) (im excluding tanks in this btw) the issue is that ad champs get punished for going defensive against ap beacuse they wont have much damage while ap champs get defences against ad while still boosting their damage without punishment.

[@rogersowden2369]

AD champs tend to need to be up close and personal (aside from ADCs, who's items dont have armor), where mages can be safe for an entire duration of a team fight. Fighters need armor. Mages dont.

[@YugoShokan-t8w]

I feel like rabadon could simply use a new build path kinda how they change the build path for morello’s. That way you don’t have to make extremely awkward recalls just to buy a needlessly large rod Void staff I think is fine. The magic pen is so high I can see why it doesn’t give that much in stats considering most mages needs sorcery boots which already give magic pen. I do agree that mages do need an equivalent to serylda’s and Lord doms just with adjusted numbers. Good video.

[@Enavoid]

I love your ena pfp

[@Indigo24485]

the reason rabadon has such a bad build path is because its op as fuck

[@victorgalva23]

​@@Indigo24485 but it wasn't always like that

[@aster011]

Old rabadon used to have more optimal build path. it used to be 435+850+1250 from ap components + some gold i think

[@trafalgarlaw8373]

They absolutely don't need those items. Mages are categorically different because they have ranged aoe dmg dps. Giving them a slow and heal reduction on that is much much more broken than an AD assassin who can jump on one target and now keep them there, or an ADC who can attack one target to get through their armor, which is already higher by base.

[@765craven4]

Another channel made a video about AP itemization and brought up a good point imo. Because AD as a stat has a few built in modifiers such as Attack Speed and Base AD and crit it allows them to tune AD items to be used by specific classes. You don't see ADCs building Edge of Night all that often, for example, or Assassins building Divine Sunderer. Obviously there have been exceptions when they're overtuned but those are exceptions, not the rule. AP has the issue of every AP champion working off of only 1 actual damage stat. AP. The only exceptions are individual champions who scale off of a secondary stat, like Ryze with Mana, Vladimir with health or Azir with Attack Speed. That leads to what he referred to as "item poaching". Essentially items designed for one AP class happen to be strong enough that they're desirable enough for other AP classes to build them over their intended items. The example he provided was Demonic Embrace. It had high enough stats and a good enough passive at one point that it was common on most Mages, not just as an Anti Tank option or an option for AP Bruisers like Morde. This happens with AD items too like how Duskblade was recently incredibly powerful or a few seasons back Goredrinker was. But since AD has those other stats to adjust it's easier to make an AD items less desirable to a specific AD class.

[@autistictyranitar414]

As an adc main, the item rework we had for this mid season should happen with every other role (with adjustment to champions) . I actually vary my items much more than before and I don't feel forced to go the same exact build every game. Also items feel unique now and I adapt to whatever it's happening in the match.

[@apexcryptlord]

The item rework was literally one of the worst patches in a while. Better to rework the adc changes

[@sadscientisthououinkyouma1867]

The mythic item rework is where this entire problem started. We literally just need to go back, especially the jungle. Fuck the pokemon starter shit, I want to actually have a choice.

[@mylynguyen6512]

​@@sadscientisthououinkyouma1867yeah with some champions i think the mythic useless, some still doesn't find their mythic but we are forced to buy one or it's considérés as trolling

[@TheMehkey]

i felt this 5 years ago, thanks

[@H2SO4pyro]

I think Rabadon is fine: mages need an item to leverage their midgame when they manage to get a massive lead. The actual issues are that other mage items are a bit lackluster as raw AP, rabadon should fill the same kind of niche as the mejai (but as gold funnel while mejai is a betting minigame). It needs a little bit friendlier buildpath too. Actually i think it should be a mythic just as IE now is.

[@ДенисИванов-э9у]

if rabs is mythic ludens is no no you got 0 mobility 0 pen so you are playing defensive close range mage. If you play artillery you just quit the game i suppose without both items in kit

[@H2SO4pyro]

@@ДенисИванов-э9у I don't understand your point. If they happend to switch Rabadon to mythic along with others, they'll change some mythic to legendary as well, and change the stats of all legendaries. We can't know how the whole item pool could be balanced. It's all about options and what playstyles you want players to engage with.

[@mylynguyen6512]

​@@ДенисИванов-э9уwhat do you mean "no no" How do you think ADCs deals with IE being a mythic ? They get no mobility, just pure damage as Rabaddon would give In case ADCs need défensive mythic, they take galeforce, then as a mage you have many options🏋️🍑

[@thecolor3]

One thing I don't see being mentioned is dark seal. I understand the idea is risk vs reward but when you can buy an item for 350g that is already 131% gold efficient that becomes 380% gold efficient at max stacks, its basically a large rod with +5 AP and +150 hp for just over 1/4 of the cost. Buying this item after a single kill in lane lets you out-stat anybody for the cost of a longsword and keep those stats by just playing smart (which you should already be doing). Mejai's is a trap, but dark seal can just carry you to 3 items on its own (if enemy team doesn't ff 15)

[@evelynnholmes301]

Ok this might sound really dumb because I didn't think about it alot beforehand, but what if they just moved the rabadons %ap to every mage mythic passive, as in each mythic gives like 8% ap to all legendary items, this would mean that they can hit all necessary items in their functional buildpath and still have enough damage late game to matter to tanks.

[@GrandLufaine]

Those suggestions at the end were actually really really interesting. I like them a lot.

[@emptyptr9401]

While I do largely agree, I think that they would also need to add a few more items instead of reworking the old ones only. Ad Items are basically split into Buiser, Assas8n and Adc Items, and AP Items would probably need a similar split into Mage, Bruiser and Assassin Items. With your suggestion, AP Assassins would loose their main Damage Items in Shadowflame and Morellos. The problems with this of course is that AP champs are more similar and can build each others Items (Which isnt even a bad thing nessesarily, it what differentiates Ap and Ad champs) so this would have to be kept in mind and is probably the ma8n reason why AP Itemisation is what it is right now

[@zariosmation3462]

bro I NEEEED YOUR PLAYLIST MAN PLEASE, the music you use in your videos bring back such good memories and nostalgia, great work man keep it *UP*

[@minimoYT]

Thanks! I'll be honest, I just throw all the songs I like into a gigantic, completely unorganized playlist, but mostly I use OS Runescape songs and Undertale. For this video specifically I used Food for Thought from OSRS, and Forest Kingdom from NieR Automata

[@Pineapple-hx9ty]

I am 100% in favour of deleting deathcap and dispersing other ap items its bonus

[@gaartes]

I am a Mage main, like 90% of the champions I play are from that class and I couldn't agree more with the video, whenever I play a AD champ I ALWAYS get confused with the sheer number of possibilities for building items, but as a mage main I see myself often bored out of building basically the same itens across my mains

[@DriftingSands]

Yeah I'm super disappointed how one force of nature makes Azir basically useless, especially when the DPS build is actually good now, and back when it was the norm he was known as a tank-killer

[@minimoYT]

Any "tank killer" mage gets kind of negated by high magic resist, Azir, Cassiopeia, and Brand mostly rely on either low cooldowns and high damage up-time, or %HP damage, they have no penetration in their kit like Mordekaiser or Rumble, for example. Thankfully they did nerf FoN pretty heavily, but now Abyssal Mask is the new "mages BTFO" item

[@Pineapple-hx9ty]

at least FON got nerfed now so that magic %pen and flat pen affect its passive now

[@gabet.1880]

You voiced something I never consciously realized had upset me. ADC and assassin players can seamlessly combine on-hit, attack speed, move speed, haste, crit, lethality, healing, and AD items which allows so much build expression. Tanks have all these options to choose from between MR, health, armor, shielding, AOE, and healing. Bruisers can easily flip between tank, sustain, and dps-focused builds depending on how they're feeling. Supports can build almost whatever they want situationally in addition to support items. But mages? Reiterating your point, they can go for poke, burst, utility, or bruiser, each of which has 2 essential items for their respective build with 4 viable filler mage items remaining for them to choose from. Whenever I play a mage, by mid game, I always find myself buying the same 4 items (Shadowflame, Zhonya's, Rabadon's, Void Staff) in different orders no matter who I play just like you mentioned. It just feels so repetitive-the excitement of exploring new builds is gone when there's a predetermined correct path you end up following no matter your build, play style, or champion. I agree with another commenter that beyond just reworking existing mage items, I think we need more altogether. Thanks for making this video, and I really hope Riot sees it.

[@GhostHunter-kj2er]

I liked smites take on this issue long ago. They gave tahuti, their version of deathcap, more ap, and % pen, but the 33% ap passive only worked against targets below 50% hp, so it was better for execute mages and no longer a mandatory item. So then they put more ap and stats on other items because it was no longer mandatory as a mage item.

[@HelpMeFindMyDad]

Smite is also the only game that has more damage, cc and executes than league has

[@GhostHunter-kj2er]

@HelpMeFindMyDad I've been playing it after a good two year break. And I'd have to disagree, only because of the DR system is there less CC, yeah everyone henerally has access to more in 1v1 and 2v2's, but I don't know what they did the game has so much less damage than it used to. I'm not the biggest fan, I miss the big numbers

[@bocchitherrat1798]

Brother, I was about to chalk this up as another "one of those" type of vids, but holy moly. Your whole take on the item counterparts near the end would feel amazing. I do feel like it would end up making both AD and AP be interchangeable if we make them a 1:1 change, but it does open up discussion a lot better than other vids I've seen.

[@samuelpanak2087]

Riot probably specifically doesn't just change the whole AP itemization to be just counterparts of AD because they should feel like different item paths. As in, mage items should be fundamentally different so that you don't just build "AP Serylda's" into "AP Duskblade" into "AP Collector". The items shouldn't be just counterparts of AD items, because then, why even bother having two different sets of items for AD and AP? The only reason magic damage even is a mechanic is because it creates many more dynamics of how things can be designed and played. So, it makes sense to make the items that belong to mages and the like feel distinct. If they change AP items, they should NOT make them like AD items, in fact, they should make them more unique and interesting. For example, Horizon Focus makes you deal more damage when far enough, but how about we decrease how much damage it deals to 5% bonus after 700 range, but between 900 and 1100 range it would have a "sweet spot" and deal 15% more and farther it would fall off again.

[@andrealasorte7747]

i agree they shouldn't be 1:1 copies but should follow the same philosophy you can't have an AD item being literally 2 AP items (void staff + rylai) combined,if AD items always have some utility attached like movement speed,slow etc. so should AP items,no the very same effects though

[@rytispalionis2077]

@@andrealasorte7747 no they shouldnt, ad items have utility because ad champs kits dont, and mage items dont have the utility because their champs do. If you could build utility items without loosing damage on mages, every mage would become another asol which is the biggest cancer to play against. Like you meet late asol and you cant move, get burned for max% hp damage, also cant kill him because funni seraphs and roa giving him 4500 hp, now imagine you meet katarina who also built all these util items, but still has 800 ap

[@boxxik11]

share this around! Riot needs to see this

[@Relogion]

I agree that mage itemization is bad. But I would like to point out that some mages do have different playstyles based on their itens, more than other classes. Vladimir can become a drain tank by going rift maker and cosmic. Aurelion can go burst damage with ludens and shadow flame, but going RoA and Rilays makes him play like a control mage with E and Q applying slow on enemies together with pull and stun from ult. I don't know if deathcap should deleted. They could change the buIld path to Blasting wand, amply tome and large rod thou. It would make the transition a lot better. The item is so iconic that deleting it should be a crime. But I woukd like having more ap on other itens. Maybe they could turn deathcap into a mythic? Like they did to infinity edge? Since everyone likes to build it why not make it a mythic already? And maybe add more special effects to other itens? Rilays for example, make people freeze(stun?) enemies after slowing them for some time, I don't know. But the itens designed for a magical class should be more creative.

[@zzz01f]

but it would be so bad if rabbadon were a mythic, every mage would be forced to buy the same mythic if they want to do any damage they said they were removing mythics soon so i think its pointless to talk about them anyways

[@Relogion]

@@zzz01f where they said that they will remove mythics?

[@zzz01f]

@@Relogion kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWOtYnuci9ulq9E in this dev update, around 1:50, they said that they were going to try some things and depending on feedback they will decide on deleting the mythic system or not

[@JustaChomik]

btw congrats its now your most viewd vid keep it going man. when dc serwer,when streams:(

[@minimoYT]

Sorry for the radio silence, DC server is something I'm still pondering if I should do or not. As for streams, I've been a bit busy these days, but tomorrow I'll stream 100%

[@JustaChomik]

@@minimoYT so like now or am i dumb

[@_________-_______]

The problem lies within mages as a whole, they are super hard to balance so a single change like making one item give hp etc would break the meta. Ryze, veigar, cass, karthus are some champions that would become too op if the items were given too much utility or hp or other things.

[@Ezurial]

I think that's a symptom of magic damage being so broad in league. Physical damage options have attack speed, on hit effects, lethality, crit, etc. Imagine how hard it would be to balance AD items if talon, sett, and jinx were all forced into the same item item choices in the latter part of their build, but somehow it's expected that velkoz Diana evelyn and cassiopia will all share. Anything that gives an artillery mage good damage and utility would be broken on an ap assassin. There's no ap equivalent to crit, attack speed or on hit effects. The only way to deal more magic damage is to have more ap or higher Mpen, which is basically a lethality build, but it has to be balanced around ap ratios attached to utility effects tied into kits made to scale off of just ap.you can't have an item that gives excellent damage and move speed to an artillery mage because there is no trade off that stops cassiopia or evelyn from instantly becoming it's best user. Can't give cassiopia damage and resistances without balancing it around swain instead. I think the smallest scale change you could make to actually fix the issue would be adding an entirely new damage type and stat to scale with to stop wildly different champions from benefitting from the same items. Until then boring generic items are the best we can really hope for

[@WizardKingSolo]

This video is so good, I completely 💯% agree

[@brnddi]

They should make Banshee's Veil an active item so it basically works the same as Sivir's and Nocturne's spell shields.

[@deadhuman1343]

That's a great point, I've never thought about it in that way, but you are 100% right

[@-B.L.E.S.S.E.D-]

I think one of the major problems is that mages only need one stat , and they're the only class that are like this. You can't build Riven with only ad items but no cdr , can't build Jax with ad but not AS , same goes for adc's wich generaly like to have some life steal + crit + ad + as (ofc there's niche builds like full lethality Cait or some other bs but you get the point). Assassins could be the exeption but it's an easier class to balance (and create interesting items for) because at the end of the day all assassins have to put themselves in danger to do their job if enemy's play well , the same doesn't go for mages. On the other hand you can build only AP on every mage and will be just fine , it would be a bit sub optimalof course but not as impactful as it would be on any other class. So creating new items for mages is very hard because thechnicaly they already have everything they need.

[@-B.L.E.S.S.E.D-]

Oh and also , mages already have a lot of utlity in their kit.. Giving them more through items would just make them OP in high elo and pro play. There's really little room for changes IMO

[@minimoYT]

Mages do need some other stats as well, Luden's movement speed is very underappreciated, and haste is extremely important on any caster, though their options are very limited compared to other classes. You make a good point in that mages have more utility and safety than assassins, for example, but they do have a vulnerability: they're mostly very squishy, have little to no mobility (Ahri being the exception), and the few who are beefy enough to not die to someone sneezing in their general direction have little range to compensate

[@wnsjimbo2863]

@@minimoYT my dude mages are created to deal alot of fucking dmg (if they have 3 items ) and mostly aoe , you cant expect them to have mobility too

[@puddingcomet7325]

@@wnsjimbo2863 I would say that ADCs deal way more dmg then Mages when both have 3 Items,

[@legatuslolicon]

ngl, your suggestion for rylai's is really good, it'd be a dream come true for making malzahar feel more "complete"

[@ZeckNyron]

Great video, but I think the discussion should be extended to every AP champion, because the flaws in AP itemization is what leaves us with no AP bruiser that's actually fun to play. I really can't understand what's the problem of having magic vampirism back, we don't want mages to be healing themselves, but to prevet that they could just make the heal weaker for ranged champions, like they already do with some effects in AD items. Every AD bruiser have different item paths, several options and possibilities, but AP melee champions are all stuck to the same boring build that fits them and most of the time can't even heal properly through items. How many items that give armor and AP do we have? One. How many items that give MR and AP? One. Attack Speed and AP? One again. That's just completely terrible.

[@Ridley_Prime]

As a fighter and Morde enjoyer I have a lot of the same pain points with bruiser items. Cleaver, Steraks, mythic, and sometimes deaths dance is basically the only teamfight fighter build you can go. Maybe you mix it up with a hullbreaker, but if you want an item thats synergistic with your kit, you basically have to sacrifice your teamfighting ability. Seryldas, serpents, botrk, sunfire, chempunk, dmp, any MR item, a hydra, hullbreaker, shojins... very few of these items can compete with the cleaver steraks DD core. Mordes high base damages, ratios, innate pen and max hp dmg and tendency to prefer demonic make rabadons and void not mandatory on him, and it frees his builds significantly. Outside of Rylais (which you can sub out for iceborn gauntlet) he really doesn't have any required purchases. Zhonyas is good some games. Nashors is good in others. Maybe you do want a rabadon here. Maybe you go demonic and tank. Need haste? You can buy cosmic. You do need SOME damage, usually demonic, but he can kinda go whatever and make it work in the right situation. I want other fighters to be flexible like that. Cleaver and steraks currently pull so much weight they crowd out other options. Sounds like mages are in a similar situation

[@maksymiliank5135]

What I would like too see is riot adding one or two item slots, then nerfing all of the items so you would reach a similar level of stats with a full build and lower their prices so you wouldn't have to farm for 40-50minutes to get to a full build. This would allow you to have more utility items with passive effects, rather than just a bunch of stack sticks.

[@edvardandrehuamanidelgado9102]

I'm a supp main and yes, I agree completely. Why? because I like playing support mages. The utility of the non-flat ap items it's good... _for a support_ because the differences in damage with the mid mages are very noticeable. And speaking of game design... The support items are so much expensive for their stats that many times is better to buy a supposed "utility item for mages". We are still waiting for rylai's becoming a support item with ah and another one "better designed" for mages. Even the support item for anti-healing was reworked so it's more like a mage item but with less cost. (They reworked the passive so you need to actually deal damage instead of just healing to activate it)

[@noobshot9470]

I feel like mages' kits have a lot of utility and get items to do more damage while their AD counterparts have kits to do more damage or be more tanky and get items to get more utility

[@noobshot9470]

And you can choose items but kits are attached to champs

[@dankmemes8254]

Items more utility for ad my ass my last items on enemy viego dealt the same damage as his rotation thanks blade of the ruined king

[@rytispalionis2077]

true, like imagine for example enemy kata gets 2 kills in river comes back to lane with rylais (which as the video suggested should have mr shred). She spends 2600 gold to have 100 ap (because rabadon is removed and other items have more ap now) 450 hp, a slow and 30% mr shred. Meanwhile for the same gold talon has a dirk and a warhammer. How tf is that balanced

[@mylynguyen6512]

That is a smart analysis ! But look at Kai sa, Akali, Katarina, their kit doesn't have a lot of utility, they are pure damage. And when they build AP, they build more damage😂😂😂😢😢

[@RisottoNero-z1w]

maybe older champs, new ones seem to have utility in every skill.

[@LuxminosityBoy]

Maybe I'm kinda late to the conversation, but just hink about it, ap champs are screwed by default, even if subpar, a bruiser or an adc can situationally build items that don't belong to their class (maw isn't a typically adc item, death's dance isn't either, you can even build edge of night if the game suits it). This means that any ad scaling champion has around 10 good items to choose from each game and at least another 5 that can be built situationally, then we find ap champs who literally only have 1 build path no matter which one you playing, to be honest, riot needs to: At least add 3 real ap bruiser items (this could also help ap scaling tanks), better differenciate between ap assassins and artillery by dividing ap items into burst and spam, if you are playing a burst champ you should be punished by having at least a 10s window without cd's, whereas artillery should have abilities and resources to cast them often enough (Maybe make an item version of presence of mind that rewards you with mana regen and low amounts of ap when constanly hitting enemies with your spells(excluding DoT cause that'd be free mana 4 everyone)) Anyways sorry for my rant and random ideas, I'm just a frustrated mage enjoyer that hates the fact that mages haven't had real variety since we had the almighty item rework that promised us """""variety"""" by making mythic items that supposedly change your build depending on each match

[@thezintere-sanchannel3294]

I think mage's items being stat sticks is fine because their kits usually do much more than the AD champions.

[@nathanmello4407]

Do much more in which aspect? Because AD champs tend to have a LOT more things in their kit than AP characters do

[@makk3400]

Most of those changes sound pretty solid but they would definitely have to nerf Hourglass then, this Item alone makes mages so much stronger than a lot of the AD alternatives since there is no counterpart

[@minimoYT]

Yes, I would like to see Zhonya's stasis effect nerfed. Either massively nerf the stasis duration (0.5s instead of 2.5), or reduce/remove the armour. Right now, stasis is too good of an active for an item that gives 45 armour and a solid armour of haste as well. The only downside to Zhonya's is that building it early leaves you without damage, but if you do build it early, you were probably behind anyway

[@Visualize01]

I'm so happy I found this video - finally something that put my thoughts into words. After many many years of not playing and recently returning to the game, I was shocked to see how much utility assassin, bruiser, and tank items offer while mage items are still extremely one-dimensional. It makes me feel like the Mage class as a whole is severely underpowered at the moment, since you have basically zero itemization options and only one or two targets on the enemy team that you can actually deal damage to. I remember back in Season 4 and 5, mages and assassins were by far the strongest classes. Mages used to be able to deal severe damage to any champion unless they had massive amounts of MR. Now it feels like you never reach that point unless you get extremely fed very early since the items other classes get simply offer more for the same amount of gold.

[@mustangcody]

About morellos, you're forgetting that it applies on abilities compared to just autos like mortal and chainblade. Meaning champions with huge aoe spells apply max value to every target hit.

[@minimoYT]

Chainsword does apply on abilities as well, it's just most users will be in the middle of the enemy team if they want to apply it AoE, which is where most bruisers want to be anyway. But I don't think Morello being a super strong anti-heal item would be too broken, it would depend on how healing is balanced in general, since nowadays most healing-centric champions don't really heal that much (Aatrox, Rhaast, Renekton, etc.), and most of the heavy healing comes either from items, or supports like Soraka and Sona TL;DR.: It's complicated

[@trafalgarlaw8373]

@@minimoYT Difference being that mages have ranged aoe spells with low cds to constantly apply it to everyone, compared to AD champs that will be single target and probably melee. Completely unfair comparison that ignores the differences between mages and bruisers, assassins or adcs

[@matusvacho7782]

Based on what I heard, mage item REWORK is coming probably NEXT PRESEASON. Its not officially confirmed, but I follow one league creator, who was invited to the MSI. He talked about a meeting, creators had with some higher ranking league developers ( I think there were LoL game director and lead game/balance designer, but I may be wrong on that). in the meeting they were allowed to ask anything "behind the closed doors". One of the questions asked was "What are you foing to do with midlane? and Why are marksman items getting reworked again, when mage have clearly bigger problems?" (this was couple of weeks ago, when the last adc item rework was about to come out). Their answer was something like: "We know about the mage item issue, but adc items are easier to fix right now. We need more time to figure out how to rework the ap items." From the context of what he said, it sounded to me, like its pretty likely, that mage items are going to be changed in preseason S14. Also, if anyone wonders, there was also a question "what can you tell us about the riot MMO?" ... and the answer was "cant talk about that" :/ PS: Sorry for any grammar issues, english is not my main language. xD

[@minimoYT]

I don't doubt they're cooking something for mages, I just worry that they put it off for as long as they have the top lane satisfaction stuff

[@stealthgamer4620]

@@minimoYT top lane is still a bad island 😵‍💫 the minion speed change is i suppose a neutral change, and the tp cooldown it’s better but doesn’t change the state of top lane. old tp is just better to fix waves and impact the game more. minion change kinda made things more isolated in a good and bad way (neutral).

[@luccamaino4118]

I love rabadon so much, and I've never tought about deleating rabadon, but now after this, I think it would be so good.

[@ajatajuta]

Imagine if Black cleaver had a slow, I think Rylais having mag pen would be a bit too nuts, but I like the general idea flow, good content !

[@minimoYT]

I think the balancing factor would be that Rylai's wouldn't offer the 30 haste of Black Cleaver, even though haste is pretty important for AP bruisers and battlemages. That then makes Cosmic Drive more appealing for the 30 haste and movement speed, despite being a squishy item. Separate item balancing should still be necessary, like making Rylai more expensive or give it less HP, something along those lines

[@the_last_ballad]

It does, it's called Seryldias grudge. Which gives 45 ad(about 75 ap if it gave adaptive force), 20 haste, and 30% mpen. To be honest, I would be OK with removing the health for ability haste. I have literally never bought the item for its health anyway.

[@Archinemi]

So, AD has 3 different ways of doing damage: AD, ATKSP, CRIT. AP has only 1. Maybe if they made some kind of AP crit ot would give itemization options. Building armor requires thought: what kind of AD damage are they? Do i need Randuins for Crit? Frozen Heart? But MR? 1 kind for 1 damage. This has always felt like part of the problem for me.

[@Archinemi]

I don't think it should be double damage like AD crit, mind you.. just, gimme something different. At least Adaptive Helm gave burn resist before.

[@kuala3840]

Since Shadowflame is an item against squishies and Horizon Focus is garbage, i made an idea for Focus' rework. Passive should activate also when silencing, blinding etc. and increase damage by 8%, but this number gets increased by 0,3% for every 100 of enemy bonus health, so it now busts tanks. Also stats should be 115 AP and 15 haste, buildpath: Needlessly large rod + Fiendish codex, cost is 3000.

[@HarpieLady683]

U just want to benefit a single champion u probably play with that change

[@douwemusic]

There's a fundamental paradox esp. vs MR tanks. You need Liandry's to deal any damage, and then as much CDR as you can get to make the Liandry's worth anything (unless you have DOT). But then you don't have AP and deal no damage, no matter how much you spam. Also, Demonic doesn't even give CDR, barely gives AP and feels even more like a waste if you don't have DOT.

[@andrealasorte7747]

most mages don't need AH to keep up the liandry burn,liandry into shadowflame is really strong especially with aery (it's bugged and keeps proccing off cd with these 2 items combined)

[@douwemusic]

@@andrealasorte7747 Well, I was specifically talking about vs. tanks. I agree that it's a good item in a lot of other situations though

[@michapiasta3072]

Its very funny how the ap black cleaver existed already in arena gamemode. It gave you 70 ap 30 armor 30 mr and 15 haste, with its passive being the mr shred. It was so broken on champs like singed, amumu, mordekaiser.

[@-B.L.E.S.S.E.D-]

Just finished the video and i've got to say I disagree with most of your changes.. The reason Cleaver is a bruiser item is because bruisers have to be in the middle of the fight for a decent time to proc it fully , meaning they will take damage CC ect. Same goes for most other items. I think the only one were I agree with you is the removal of rabadon , it's kind of an outdated item.

[@minimoYT]

The Rylai idea is mostly to benefit the AP bruisers and short-range battlemages that use it. The mages with enough range to be out of danger would benefit more from Void, since their cooldowns are long enough that they'd take a long time to apply the shred, and if Void and Rylai were mutually exclusive, that would probably sort out the issue

[@dante6841]

Removing death cap would be so good for champs like swain, seraphine and Ryze. They generally don't want to build raw ap since it destroys their itemisation but are often forced to do so and would lose way to much damage otherwise

[@trafalgarlaw8373]

Boohoo, you have to spend money on damage to get damage, instead of being tanky, doing equal dmg to multiple targets at once and having CC.

[@ozthebeeman]

"there are burst mages, artillery mages and control mages" and then there is ryze who just goofs around building whatever the fuck he wants and it will probably work

[@minimoYT]

I'd count Ryze as a battlemage, not because he's meant to be in the middle of the fight, brather because he can't help but be in the middle of the fight by rooting himself longer than he roots other people to cast his shit lol

[@ozthebeeman]

@@minimoYT xdd as a ryze main ye I know the pain

[@TundrousOfficial]

Ahh the runescape stronghold of security music. "Food for thought" Good song choice.

[@ΠαναγιώτηςΘεοδώρου-ι8ρ]

Veigar, first back at around 1100 for lost chapter, 2nd base for something that you can afford, 3rd base for everfrost at around 9-10 mins. Then you time your backs for needlessly large rods and sorcerer's shoes and try to have Rabadon's at around 20-22 min then you one tap every squicy.

[@ianellsworth1186]

As a Mordekaiser main I would cry tears of joy for magic shred on rylai's 🤤

[@Sploberrie]

I'm in an interesting position, as a Seraphine main, who usually builds only utility items (and with her AP ratios nerfed to hell recently might not even need Rabadon's anymore). I REALLY like your idea of making mage items similar to the AD items, where you have a few items that give percent-pen but you can only build one. I especially like the idea of making two of them be the ones that give one slowness and one anti-heal, because having to choose between the two would add a fun dynamic to Sera's itemization. But just for the sake of keeping the frosty imagery, I'd make Rylai's the slowness item and Voidstaff the shred item.

[@rckbrch]

subscribed to your channel bro hehe was recommended great video! im a mage main since the early days of League hehe

[@gaze2156]

It'd be cool if Rylai's would stack the slow with spell hits, and at max stacks, the target loses a big chunk of their MR. This would keep the extended fight pattern of Black Cleaver without making it a direct ripoff. Something like: "Dealing ability damage slows the target by 10% for 3 seconds, stacking up to 3 times. At max stacks, the target is inflicted with 30% MR reduction until the effect ends."

[@minimoYT]

This would also make it less viable on burst champs and better on low cooldown mages and AP bruisers, so Void wouldn't lose its niche, super cool idea

[@anaxagoras9812]

every thing you said made sense...and void staff getting a slow makes sense because it looks like a black hole xd

[@punishedsneed]

I like Veigar itemization because it's mythic, boots, deathcap. From there, you can do so much. You wanna have more survivability? Build a DMP for mobility, health, armor. You want move speed and more damage? Build Cosmic Drive. You want more damage from CC? Horizon Focus. Enemy built MR? Void Staff.

[@ozthebeeman]

hy guys you like mages? yes good ok which mage item do you want? the stat stick, the stat stick, the stat stick or the stat stick with *gasp* a shield passive

[@lol-mp8zs]

I switched from mages to assasins like 3 weeks ago And builds feel so much more satisfying, there‘s actuaal options, no 1300 gold gap when finishing ludens and items feel like they have more impact

[@Grubber69]

loves these ideas, mages build path is a railroad and rarely is it worth it to go off the track

[@0blacklightning046]

Its funny he mentions Morell getting penitration and antiheal. In wild rift morell had 15% magic pen plus applied grievous wounds. The devs took away the magic pen. We also had mercury treads as a tenacity and MR boot set. Now mercury treads has lost it’ tenacity and MR but has gained like 8 flat Magic Pen.

[@Nearnae]

I fully agree with your suggestion of removing Dcap and spreading damage to other items. Another thing that really hurts me is how Hourglass has gone from 2600 to 3000 in gold cost. If you were behind (a couple seasons ago), you couldn't build Dcap, cuz you were broke. So Zhonyas was a great item to build, as it was cheap and was very cost efficient. However, if you are playing from behind now, Zhonyas will also take too long to complete, so you are doomed.

[@OldandAbandonedHarcorte]

I agree heavily with most of the points made in this video. Rabadon's is an item which is virtually required if you want to deal any actual damage, and the only time you don't build it is when you're running a bruiser build with riftmaker, I.E lillia, Mordekaiser, Akali. But even then those builds get nerfs for performing too effectively ironically. It is super weird that void staff and Rylais are just one item for Assassin's which gives them a lot more in terms of options depending on who they're playing. Items shown in that graphic like Horizon Focus, Cosmic Drive and ETC. just never see play because you need a mythic and rabadons to do damage, and then either banshees/zhonyas to stay alive, with shadowflame for extra damage or void staff if the enemy team has tanks. And thats basically the whole fucking build right there. I'd argue that mythics all have their place (Aside from Crown which is genuinely pretty bad most of the time) But the other legendary items besides those overly core 3 are really damn rare. Most builds are just Boots - Rabadons - Mythic - Void Staff/Shadowflame - Zhonya's/Banshees - MAYBE 1 item of your choosing, otherwise just build the other of shadowflame/void staff since theyre like the only penetration items mages get period. I think not only do items like cosmic drive and horizon focus need buffs and changes around rabadons removal but we probably also need like 2-3 new mage items for newer concepts. The reworks put forth in this video are a neat Idea and I support them. like the Morello change.

[@notthisnow589]

The man solved all the probs with the itens with a 10 min video. And this is exactly the problem I have with so many itens... I thought cosmic drive was so cool before the rework, giving you ms based on AH, but simply wasn't worth. It's a shame cool itens ideas don't work in the game.

[@trafalgarlaw8373]

Bro idk what youre smoking if you thought this was feasible or reasonable

[@ricardobujedo7880]

what do you think that flat armor penetration was transformed into lethality for AD assassins, with their own category of items, but something similar has not been done for AP assassins such as katarina, leblanc, fizz, diana and etc.

[@samfriend3675]

I remember seeing a video (I can't remember by who, sorry) that explained part of the problem - AP champs all share one item set. AP assassins and bruisers and mages all share the same items, so changes to one affect the others - some of the items are the way they are to prevent, say, Ekko running away with them if they were buffed. This isn't a problem for AD champs, because of the difference between base and bonus AD. Bruisers use base AD on their abilites, so gain less from high damage items which encourages them to build the defensive or utility ones. Assassins scale off bonus AD, so need every damage item they can get their hands on, and can't afford to take anything else most of the time. This means that you don't have to worry too much about the items crossing classes where they shouldn't. AP doesn't have this distinction (there is no base AP), and so there's no way to stop an assassin building bruiser items and becoming tanky if the item provides enough AP (which it has to, or the bruiser does nothing because there is no base AP). Unfortunately, I have no idea what to actually do about this. It would require a rework of mages on the scale of the item rework in order to have a hope of fixing the fundamental issue, and that's unlikely to happen.

[@-nomercy-642]

Mages should not have any flat pen on their items. As lethality stands for AD assassins this type of pen should stand only for AP assassins like Eve, Elise, LB etc. Now you can have up to 70 flat magic pen on every mage in the late game and of course the 40% pen from the void staff which pretty much makes every mage an assassin rn. You can literally one shot people using one ability which should not be allowed at all as it breaks the rules and makes AP champs work wrong according to their initial design and purposes. By the way, your mr and armor are not increasing the same way by leveling up system. Every champ will have at least 90-100 armor at level 18 when mr will grow only by 18-20. So if you don't have any resist items on adc for example you will have like 50-60 mr at level 18. And as I said before mages can have up to 70 flat pen w/o percents from void staff which not only makes their damage pure but also increases it due to negative mr. You can build 5 mr items on adc and still get killed by 3 or 4 abilities instead of 1. And that makes mages so op rn. Mages like Syndra are designed to be an actual mage version of adc so it's apc but rn they're being played like an actual assassins being able to one shot every squishy champ with only one or two items. And that's disgusting.

[@adrianbunea2006]

This video is spot on. I play Xerath and Ziggs, and I always go the same build. On Zoggs it's Luden's or Liandry's, Archangel, Rabadon, then Void Staff and whatever last item makes sense, usually Shadowflame. I know the only way I can be useful is if I deal damage, and for that to happen, I need my AP to jump exponentially with each item. With Xerath I learned to skip Zhonia's entirely, and learn to play without it. Buying Zhonias second would literally make me useless for the rest of the game until I get my Rabadon's. I'd be playing with 1 item behind in terms of damage, and without damage, I'm useless on those champions.

[@adrianbunea2006]

And the mage item reworks have literally been a 100% nerf for me. I lost AP for stats I don't need, especially on Archangel's, like Haste and especially health, which would make no difference. Normally I was reaching 1000 AP every game. Now I'm lucky if I have 800 at my peak.

[@minimoYT]

Yeah I get that, I haven't built Zhonya's on Azir either, doesn't help that he can't use it to wait for cooldowns like most mages. Before Deathcap it just feels like you need 4 spell rotations to kill a 3 levels down Nami

[@lorenzomeulli750]

The problem with Mage items -outside of Mythics- is that those that matter are such because of their stats, not because of how they work precisely. Shadowflame was essentially the only option between that and HF until this second had its tweaked couple of months ago. Their passive doesn't matter apart from some overly specific situation, because their effect are still negligible and only about dealing damage. Compare Shadowflame to Serpent's Fang to see my point. Both have effects related to shields, but Shadowflame is "you get your full MR penetration, wowzers!" while Serpent's Fang is "You reduce the target shield directly". At a surface level they might be similar, but they aren't at all. The AD item still gives you some Lethality but also helps your whole team. If you are an Assassin jumping a tank with a shield ability, yo are effectively helping to set up the rest of your team kill by reducing that shield immediatly before their own damage is mitigated. This is only an example, but you can play the game with other items and comparisons. At the end of the day, as a Mage you need to build AP and gain AH somewhere. Your mythic is going to define mostly your playstyle while everything else just gives you bigger numbers to play that style.

[@notyouraccount6038]

This issue is smaler on wild rift, where epic items dont exist. Death cap is usualy the 3th item instead of the 2th, and some Swain builds dont even have it.

[@nastaselalexandru7947]

The problem would be kinda hard if you go for all your proposed changes you will have a Veigar with 1.2k ap nuking you tank with a void and staff of slow. Also you will have 2 types of slows applied from items and let's say you play a champ with slows that will make you a zilean with 2 items. As well most AD champs are based on autos, while most mages on abilities. Basically removing Rabadon you will make ap champs more likely build around autos too like a teemo or a ziggs with 1 shot turret powers

[@minimoYT]

Those are all fair points. One way to balance Rylai's could be to make the slow weaker on ranged champions, so it's still there, but not as potent, or make it stronger on melee. Zilean's slow is strong because it's a 99% slow, so it brings you to the minimum movement speed threshold, Rylai's is 30%, which is noticeable, but not as crippling

[@nastaselalexandru7947]

@@minimoYT to make it weaker will do no good maybe to change it back to that 60% for 0.5. Also today I checked the new champ kit and that thing would need buffs, vision, and a bit more and would literally do all the things you can do on a champ, also it can reach 106% armor pen

[@znerb7716]

"Tickle tanks a little less politely" bro made me spit my coffee

[@murmel3405]

personally, i play ap bruisers, and one of my favorite things to do is build health ap items. if i loose the health on shadowflame, sadge, just sadge. i'd loose the bonus ap i'd get from demonics, and i'm more squishy. i'd core build demonics into night harvester, then build shadowflame, then rabs, and then titanic, and then i have a bit of ad dmg on top of my hardcore ap

[@minimoYT]

Imo there should be a clearer separation between the AP items for each class, that way they could add more items that supply the needs of AP bruisers, and others for AP assassins, so they don't have to share a small item pool

[@delta_8870]

As an ADC main who has been dealing with the IE issues im fed up with mandatory statsticks with awkward buildpaths but there's no way in hell I'd take another item like rilay and serylda. There's very few things that frustrate me as much as getting my entire mobility and speed items neglected because one champ has a dps with wide area of effect ability (like swain R) and rilay together. Such an annoying effect

[@nielsvanlierop749]

Since all ap champions are classified as either enchanter or mage (thank you riot) there is barely any difference between ranged and melee ap users. As an Evelynn main I can sometimes forego building deathcap when I'm 6+ kills ahead of the enemies with Mejai's, this means I get to build cosmic drive to zoom around the battlefield. Having options other than "just damage" makes for actual interactive gameplay.

[@giant4527]

I like your ideas with pen mage items but I would do this instead, void gives 30% pen and a bonus to high health targets, morello gives 30% pen and anti heal, and rylais gets mr shred and a slow. That way it isn't just a 1 to 1 of ad items while still having options available that allow for individuality with builds and itemization

[@elitenoob2141]

Yeah, this is why I enjoy tanks. You actually have a choice in the items that you buy and doing it correctly helps you out a ton. It's very satisfying.

[@leonardo5645]

Thank you for speaking up about this!

[@benyseus6325]

Bring back zhonya’s ring and deathfire grasp

[@gamingdragon1356]

My solution 1. Bring back dfg. 3400 gold Give it a 120 sec cooldown. For 3 sec the target takes 50 percent of the total damage done as true dmg. The whole point is to give burst mages the thing they need that is burst. Counter- morgana shield, guardian angel etc Late game item to shut down that yone, belveth or jaxx who are unkillaable or an adc. 2. Make shadowflame an exclusive shield burst item. 3. A specific item for spell heal. Like the item they deleted. 4. Banashee's veil grants bonus ap, spell heal or movement speed if the shield is broken for a time period so that it could be a viable alternative to zhonyas. 5. Lich bane and nashor should grant bonus movement speed on hit. It could make low mobility champs viable again. 6. Give morello flat 20 magic pen, some ability haste and anti heal. It should be the go to item for flat pen as such buying it just for anti heal is very nonsensical. 7. Make the non mana mythics to give mana while adjusting their hp, while make mana items to give appropriate health instead of mana to champs who dont have mana. This can create a big pool of items for all ap champs. 8. A few new ap items, for niche characters. Also removing rabdabbon cap would be a mistake since it would nerf all mages heavily. Rather alternatives should be available so people can make a better choice.

[@deejayf69]

Rabadon's feels like it's the equivalent to Infinity edge. Both imo are unsatisfying stat sticks. I prefer AP items still though. At 2 items you have more impact than ADCs. If they reworked the items to feel even better then I'd be ecstatic

[@elianzxd37]

The real problem with mages is that it's always been like this, since the beginning, there was a Brazilian pro player called kami whose favourite item was death cap, he used to rush this item every single game(for Viktor, orianna, zyra mid, veigar, etc), but it was back in 2015, almost 10 years ago, and the item STILL is a must for all the mages, it almost seems like riot doesn't want to change the mage's itemization or is scared of supports start building them too often, anyways that's a pretty good video and this is the reason why I love so much playing as a tank, because every single game I have a different build(most of the time xD)

[@marcustulliuscicero4386]

1) turn all tear legendaries into mythics (archangel's with lost chapter in it) 2) turn liandry into a legendary (old build path) 3) alternator should give mpen like old oblivion orb 4) give void staff a similar passive to LDR

[@arminarlelt7471]

Nice video, and also I just started playing Nier Automata so nice song choice there

[@xDraga]

rabadon's deathcap has been important for mages since the 1st season it just had better build paths for sure.

[@dozrFAB]

I don’t think any changes need to be made. Mages get variety from their abilities, and there are different items you build in each game already. For instance, I main syndra. I always start tear and go into either ludens/crown/liandry as my mythic. From there i complete my seraphs because i like surviving fights to more dps instead of raw burst. I’ll get sorc shoes in there at some point as well, but some games demand defensive boots like armor. I will then build either shadowflame/deathcap/zhonya/void depending on enemy comp or gamestate. Sometimes i’ll buy oblivion orb/morello. Minor differences in items are still relevant, but it’a mainly a tradeoff of offense vs defense. Weird utility actives like Twin Shadows were cool, but the stats were always the main concern unless your kit directly needed something like rylai’s slow (like seraphine or Asol) Mages feel strong and rewarding right now, i don’t think they need big changes.

[@zagerman9250]

Well... that's a problem with all items in lol. It's just stats, I came after Dota2, and kind frustrated by items, you just get stats, it never changes you, it's never a new play style. And 99% of items are passive, it trains my mind to completely forget about active slot I bought thinking 'cool... Should I cast this in a center of fight it's a game change!', and after my death 'how come... that I forgot again!?' So, I don't really see any problem here, the problem is fundamental, everything you get is just passive and boring, except for the sandwatches ofc.

[@minimoYT]

Boy do I have bad news for you lol, next season is removing mythics to put more of an emphasis on champion kits rather than items, so stuff like Galeforce and probably Everfrost is getting removed. Next video will be about that whenever I can get it finished

[@ahubb21]

I 100% agree with your shadowflame change idea. I don't want to hit enemies a little harder if they're shielded, I want to instantly cuck all of their shields.

[@bayanzabihiyan7465]

Deathcap I believe exists to smooth out a mages power level. It nerfs the mid game/laning by making items weaker but buffs the later game by letting their damage keep up. Without it, you’d either have to buff item AP (possibly breaking support champions whom don’t build deathcap) It’s supposed to be the infinity edge of AP characters to boost their late game relevancy. Unlike AD assassins whom are designed to fall off, mages should scale. As for penetration being more accessible on AD (grudge, lord doms, mortal, cleaver), keep in mind how much more common armor is compared to MR. Voidstaff imo should give much less AP and haste to solidify as an “tank buster” item. Shadow flame passive could be changed to “deal true damage against shields”. Less powerful against squishy champions, but makes shield-heavy tanks easier to deal with. But honestly assassin items aren’t much better. Banshees is a lot better than edge of night imo. Sorc shoes would be straight up busted as lethality. (Event though lethality needs to scale up while flat pen is fully effective right away), and the assassin grevious wound item just blows.

[@minimoYT]

To be fair, assassins don't even have a GW item, they poach it from bruisers, that's why it's underwhelming on them. They do get Serpent's Fang instead, but then the stats on the item are so bad that it gets benched just like Morello

[@SploodgeGuy]

Great video, loved the NieR music in the back