We're Being Manipulated - Safety Third #9

[@Jabrils]

this was a lot of fun, great conversation, & I finally get the Nigel Milk Reference 😂

[@chinmaydubey5408]

Sir sleeping at 4 AM in the morning My idol 🎶🎶🎶

[@kadensharpin2156]

I finally broke my terrible sleeping habit of falling asleep at 4 am and waking up at 9 am

[@debashishkaushik6933]

@@kadensharpin2156 it's not terrible, that is just what society tells us😔

[@DanielDriverA]

I was pumped to see you on this episode. Love your work and general demeanor. Keep it up, man

[@psychopomp1940]

gomad

[@Kibaomaru]

i miss hearing nigel’s near death experiences but it’s refreshing seeing new guests and seeing caretaker on the podcast

[@whichline8408]

nigel is there alright, in the spirit of his milk story

[@steven95N]

Caretaker is a saint 🤣. Also, no one ever explained how Cameraman John is in 4 locations at once.

[@Jeremy_Bones]

Shadow clone justu

[@endergamer794]

he's like the potato heads from toy story, he gives each of them one limb, and controls them remotely

[@Socrates_Nuts]

She actually sounds a lot like Scarlett Johansson and I can’t unhear it

[@coenfurtner515]

He is a 5th Dimensional being he is every where but no where that’s why we don’t see him

[@demonfrog9070]

@@Jeremy_Bones HAHAHAHA

[@pnwscitech1589]

Caretaker: "You were trying to get free food from me. That's what you were doing at 18." William: "So Jabril!..."

[@trapadvisor]

I know these don’t bring in a ton of views but the people who like the podcast love it. Please keep going as long as you can

[@DanteEhome]

I watch this multiple times, in case I missed sth. So fun.

[@jamesporter628]

totally agreed

[@Voyajer.]

Is this channel even promoted by anyone? I stumbled upon it by random chance.

[@DanteEhome]

@@Voyajer. Promoted by algorithm perhaps. If you have interest in science you have higher chance to get advertised to these videos.

[@jonathanedwards8913]

The channel is gaining about 1k subs a day at the moment. The algorithm has finally kicked in

[@BeanerMan13]

Caretaker doesn't get enough credit for keeping William alive. Thank you caretaker!! Lots of love and support!

[@_BangDroid_]

Id this literally the origin of her nickname?

[@DaimyoD0]

@@_BangDroid_ Of course. That's the meme-that she treats him like a man child. It's like how he is a self-described "Soy Boy."

[@tk421dr]

i always regretted not studying engineering in school. a few podcasts ago, i realized, via these guys, there is nothing holding me back from self teaching. bought several used college text books off amazon for cheap, and yeah, every day im reading then outlining chapters, then hitting the workbook and self testing 8 to 10 hours a day apx. maybe silly but i love this podcast, today i learned a lot of interesting stuff such as 'state tables'.

[@dontask7657]

Just showing my support with this comment

[@eli507]

This is just a suggestion, feel free to ignore. There's a sweet spot for learning. Set a project for yourself, between 'I can do that' and 'I wouldn't even know where to start'. It should be like, "I don't think I could do that", and work on it. So much learning is done trying to figure something out.

[@zuha8272]

this makes me so happy

[@cancertomato1798]

a lot of what colleges teach are just taken straight from textbooks. good job

[@alienworm1999]

@@cancertomato1798 that's what zoom university taught me

[@pogo1027]

"Boobs is the input, and everything is the output" - Allen Pan, speaking the language of the gods

[@TheGrumbliestPuppy]

That whole convo was both hilarious and frustrating. Seeing Jabril try to patiently explain what AI is to this pack of goblins who immediately jumped into explaining super wrong ideas of what AI is to eachother, but then jumping wayyy over to neuroscience. You could see my man just give up at some point, lmao

[@damon9443]

Jabril seems like a really nice roommate. Stays up really late but is concerned about noise. Even the creaking of the floor.

[@feugera1796]

Nigel is the best host and i miss him but this episode is still good

[@ronanshimmon2328]

I love how we got so many different perspectives. Having a teacher, a programmer and a bunch content creators talk about social media was real interesting.

[@wh1t3b4nd1t]

not only "content creators" these dudes are engineers, problem solvers of the highest caliber imo.... if anyone should be having these types of discussions its exactly this group of people. Really hope we see more Jabrils in the future and caretaker

[@theokid2000]

Was driving me nuts how Jabril basically said "the algorithm/ai is only a problem because someone is benefiting off of how its made so you should blame them and not the tool itself" and everyone kinda ignored it and then said "they should regulate it because the algorithm is dangerous" which is essentially both exactly what Jabril is saying while missing his point.

[@ablak3712]

I never noticed that Chelsea sounds the same as Scarlett Johansson but now I can't unhear it

[@Propulus]

Jabrils is actually a fantastic guest, loved every second of him. Also that ending alone is enough for a like.

[@paydirt4996]

AI and Machine Learning get conflated a lot. An AI just needs to act "Intelligently" whatever that means in the context. Machine Learning is a way to generate a complex AI that couldn't be hardcoded.

[@Socrates_Nuts]

Yep, most of their takes on AI were really about ML. Computer scientists have been designing AI since the 50’s, but true ML is only a few decades old.

[@DanskerneFraDanmark]

@@Socrates_Nuts is it not 1st in the 2010s we 1st get a propper working ML ?

[@ShynRou]

@@DanskerneFraDanmark Nah, ML is also fairly old like 80's. A simple ML system is nothing more than an Algorithm that automatically fits its parameters to get a better results. Though it only got real traction around 2010, because of bigger projects and investments, mostly for image and audio recognition projects.

[@DanskerneFraDanmark]

@@ShynRou ohhhh okay

[@AGP510]

William and caretaker have a cute homer and marge dynamic, adorable.

[@ethangoldsmith9332]

You right

[@4doorsmorewhrs]

You right

[@THENOOBLEGACYTEAM]

Chelsea made this episode waaay more refreshing! Her takes are golden!!!

[@safko_dsp]

I liked the part where everyone but Jabril got confused about AI

[@TheGrumbliestPuppy]

"Is the machine making decisions, no matter how rudimentary? Then its AI."

[@doxinn8879]

Woah i cant believe they got scarlett Johansson

[@tybird131]

I want someone to look at me like Chelsea looks at Will

[@leaftruft1837]

check your window

[@LynxBlack]

I'm so glad I discovered this when I did, binged the whole thing in like a day, this was an awesome idea and I'm glad that y'all came together to do this and I hope it stays around cause it feels super natural and about as chaotic as you can expect with William involved xD

[@KaterenaTheRed]

Jabril was an amazing guest! He knows how to steer a conversation and lead to some very entertaining discussions! 10/10!

[@idkartist]

"I went to bed at 4 am because it was the only time I had to myself" Holy fuck, that's the most relatable sentence I have ever heard in my life ;_;

[@4doorsmorewhrs]

bàofùxìng áoyè It means revenge bedtime procrastination in Chinese. I have it as well for about 7 years.

[@wflagg]

something about the camera angle/lens focus allen was using makes it look like he has big head mode enabled on the on from the old NFL blitz games when its in the 4 way split.

[@red_freckle]

Please tell Kevin I like his depth of field, he has a really nice focal length.

[@ac.creations]

Its an effect. It doesn't look as bad as iphone fake boca but still obviously fake

[@jamesramsey2400]

@@ac.creations lol no

[@jamesramsey2400]

look a bit more carefully you can see how the part of the mic that is close to him is out of focus and his right shoulder that is slightly further from the camera is also starting to go out of focus also i think ive seen it adjust in other videos too

[@VinegarPotato]

Caretaker’s teaching stories are great.

[@daephx]

Everyone dodging Alan's 'huge posse' comment like the fastest gunslingers in the west

[@EmyrDerfel]

53:50 this reminds me of Hitchhiker's Guide, where the Nutrimatic machine produces a liquid everyone finds unpleasant that is "almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea". Arthur Dent then dumps a bunch of info into the machine, including the history of the East India Company, and the the Nutrimatic co-opts the ship's main computer to help it work out how to make tea, leaving it unable to respond when the ship gets attacked.

[@imsoemo2234]

Kevin is a real one. Jabril too, ahead of the curve trying to solve problems at the root. Keep Kevin and Allan as staple guests please.

[@AgentMattox]

William Osman single-handedly disproves free will. We are just if-then statements.

[@TheBackyardScientist]

yeah that kind of broke my brain a for a little after he said that

[@AgentMattox]

I’m not going to lie, I love conversations on philosophy and theology. It’s one of my greatest loves besides technology and science.

[@roneyandrade6287]

@@TheBackyardScientist when did he said that

[@Micreathonn]

we should get gus johnsonn in on this

[@garbagetrash2938]

Wasn't Will on the Gus and Eddy podcast?

[@danielnunez1587]

Uh oh

[@Ari-ez1vj]

@@danielnunez1587 this one hasnt aged too well

[@DKF_oli]

he tried to come back lol

[@shahared1]

Jabril was a great guest, really enjoyed the show.

[@Big-boned_Pikachu]

I really liked caretakers views and thoughts on this. She seems like the kind of teacher that is really good for the students.

[@falafel420]

"I might be stupid and ugly but atleast I'm smart." Clapback of the century right there

[@djbassaus]

I think people overlook the meaning of Artificial in Artificial Intelligence, "made or produced by human beings, simulated, imitation". If it were emergent or naturally occurring it would simply be Intelligence.

[@-mystic-93]

19:20 Chelsea "Our mascot was a dragon." Alan "Hahaha... Nerds"

[@nithazra]

Love the real conversations delivered through this format. I won't ever complain about more gallon-of-milk-a-day and high-voltage-misadventures, but this is golden.

[@lw8882]

I didn't understand the caretaker memes till now. She's so considerate and lovely. Chelsea

[@FrancescoGhedin]

These podcasts are so nice! I honestly love the natural conversation that takes place between you! Really cool and refreshing!

[@turtlesrawesum]

What Jabril is describing at 38:05 is more specifically a Markov Process, which is a kind of machine learning algorithm. Neural networks are generally use to define ML algorithms that use hidden layers. The cool thing about a Markov transition matrix in the context of tic tac toe, for example, is that if you define your rewards properly, the transition matrix will give you the optimal move for a given state. In a sense, it is the same as a long if-else chain, but is more algorithmic with how the agent explores each path. This is 100% a machine learning process as it requires iterations and updates to reach a convergence, but it's just not as "intelligent" as the term "artificial intelligence" would make you believe.

[@frizzyacademic]

For the last 6 years I’ve only check social media at most once per day. Same time every day. It was a challenge to begin with, but stopping the urge to open up, TikTok, Instagram or Facebook during many moments of boredom during the day has been great.

[@UnderfundedScientist]

Nice you guys were just mentioning how you knew jabrils and now he's a guest. You're all amazing, it's like the fellowship gathering

[@annonone93]

My partner is black and we have never not needed to provide a criminal background check when we were living in ND

[@MeiGunner]

16:33 I love how Kevin looks up like he's looking at a past memory and he shakes his head yes like he can relate, so funny 4 the record on the same way

[@Gunbudder]

30:28 My friends and i cracked the code on standardized testing in the mid 90's. we all realized that the standardized test has literally no impact on us as students at all (this was before NCLB). It was like a massive weight was lifted off our shoulders. It was a pointless test with NO SCORE and NO GRADE. We would have assembly after assembly with the staff literally chanting "DO YOUR BEST FOR THE TEST" to the point where its the only thing i remember about school now. When the day finally came for the test, my friends and i just scribbled all over the packet, drew on the page that said not to draw on it, and wrote in random answers. After it was over, we made it about a few hours before the teachers came and rounded us up. they were furious and kept grilling us on why we didn't take the test. i remember just asking them how many points the test was worth, and they just wouldn't answer my question. ultimately, they threw our tests out and made us swear not to tell any other students what we had done. i'm glad we saw through the bullshit as kids though, because the relief from all the stress was amazing. And i made it as a engineer without EVER taking a single college placement test. No SAT, no ACT, NONE of that. Standardized testing can butt chug a gallon of Hot Ones brand name Last Dab hot sauce, with Pepper X.

[@wonderwhatsnext5408]

It's crazy the amount of stress you go through as children in elementary/middle school over tests that will literally never affect you as an adult.

[@FullThrottleAxolotl1]

Hey as a casual fan and watcher, I just wanted to say, please keep the pod cast going, like forever. I watch/listen to every single one. I listen to about 8 podcasts religiously. And as soon as I saw u guys made a podcast i put it near the top three that I listen too. I enjoy this podcast so fucking much. My top three don’t have places but, Gus and eddy as 1 or 2, ymh as 1, dr drew after dark as 2-3, and then safety third.

[@bolasamiright8975]

I don't know what's supposed to be bad about anything, I've been loving these podcasts.

[@isntthatsomething8928]

Curious what the ratio is of YT viewers : Spotify/Apple/Google Podcast listeners if you'd be willing to share. Watched all your channels separately for years, loving the pod. I personally find it more entertaining seeing everyone because it just adds a layer of comedy with the reactions and everything. Great stuff all

[@metaleggman18]

I love that Allen is thinking podcast time is modelo time. Man is truly a genius.

[@DaimyoD0]

1:13:25 *Jabril:* _What would you say if your grandfather said, 'Well, the healthiest time of all history was the age without video games.' What would your reply be?_ *Allen:* _'Shut up old man!'_ *William:* _I'd be like, 'Oh my god! You're alive?! I thought you were dead!'_ Please enable clipping on this channel! Being able to make clips of golden moments like these would be great.

[@potatofuryy]

“You’re right grandpa, I too miss tuberculosis”

[@cachecoder]

Will, thank you for starting and organizing these pod casts. I really enjoy when you get really quite and then just come back to the conversation with these knowledge bombs. It really highlights the intelligence behind your clown facade.

[@DrQuestern]

Perfect ending. Also, she really wouldn't sell her socks for 10000 bucks?! What's insane!

[@bytefu]

That's obviously not true, unless she's rich, crazy or paranoid about the buyer planting her socks at a crime scene.

[@Geekygamenerd]

Okay so I haven’t been subscribed for long bc I only heard about this podcast on Kevin’s channel just a few weeks ago. I have loved all of your guys content for years. I have never realized how much I connect with Kevin and William more then when I watch this episode. You all brought up the best things about everything in life it needs to be about morality and moderation. I feel that everybody wants everything and they want it yesterday and they don’t care who gets hurt. As long as they get what they want. My one and only podcast I listen to that I will look for actively. I have tried multiple podcasts and seen other KZbinrs do it but I fee they aren’t as connected to their followers the way you do.

[@makfunction1214]

i love how Chelsie always mentions puberty and hormones.

[@mgratk]

I worked in the testing industry for many years. I worked with several US states to make science tests. What my company did was try to help the states come up with standards that were actually what students need to learn. A big part of it involved teaching AND testing critical thinking skills. It is possible to make great testing programs, so that if teachers do "teach to the test" they are teaching critical thinking and a great foundation in the sciences. Also, even back before 2000, states had sensitivity committees made up of teachers and community members. They reviewed each and every test question before kids ever saw them, and the sensitivity committee could veto any question. THEN they reviewed the data from field tests of the questions. It should be noted that science teachers from the states we contracted with also had their own committees to review the test items and then field test data as well. The vast majority of the teachers and administrators I worked with cared deeply about giving students a strong science foundation, and even more about teaching critical thinking. And by the way, the strongest predictor of performance on a test is socioeconomic status. There are many reasons for that: from poorer parents not having the time to make sure their kids are studying, to nutrition, to a million different things. Anyway, if the standards are good and include scientific method and critical thinking, it is possible to make tests that are worth teaching to and will help as one tool in the education toolbox.

[@fergusoddjob]

Your comment reminded me of the high school physics curriculum in my state of Australia. For roughly 15 years the curriculum avoided basically any complicated physics concepts and instead had a bunch of 2 page essay style questions like, "what was the impact of the transformer on rural Australia?", apparently this was done because teachers were complaining that real physics was too hard to teach. Luckily the curriculum changed the year I took it and instead focused on more maths, and combining different equations on the spot to fit a certain previously unseen problem. If I had done the previous curriculum I would have been in for a rude shock doing university physics. Curriculum design and the test that goes with it is so important.

[@jcwalker722]

Allen just casually drinking a beer during the podcast is hilarious to me for some reason.

[@leilawhite6810]

thank you will !! please stay philosophical and abstract. I feel so at home 🖤 love this podcast and how fast it comes out

[@joki9121]

Yo jabril is legit the best host.. He includes everyone, goes back to topics, plays devil's advocate, tries to have some semblance of structure. Also caretakers takes were very informative. Honestly terrifying how kids are with online media.

[@omarg2079]

In Texas, we not only do we do the Pledge of Allegiance, but we also do a State Pledge. It's not really enforced (some people stay seated through the whole thing), but they do have it over the intercom at the start of the school day.

[@BrayXKun]

fun fact: the Kansas Board of Education has a rule that the pledge of allegiance must be recited every day otherwise the school can be punished and after not having to do it since sixth grade some kid in my class decided that he should bring it back, so in the last year of my public schooling this kid now gets on the intercom every day at 8:00 AM as the school day starts and has us recite the pledge and it's so god damned annoying.

[@jepanama]

I really enjoyed the conversation about social media @ around 1:11:00. My life splits in nearly half with the feeling of caring about numbers on social media. Granted that I'm older and began attending high school in 2015 and attend college now. Everyone is different but as a guy, I use to care more about doing numbers but that wasn't my life or like some raining cloud over my head in high school. Once I got in college it's like something snapped with my feeling of social media. I LOVE it for entertainment but now I hardly post anything of my actual life. I shitpost stupid images with captions that occasionally relate to my life but its like in a journal entry type fashion to have something to look back at. I take photos and videos of things but I just don't typically post them. I hardly like putting anything of myself out there.

[@user-ys4op3ux1p]

The education conversation reminds me of the Carlin standup about the gov programs. "No child left behind? It wasn't so long ago you were talking about giving children a head start. Someone's fucking loosing ground here!"

[@grithic]

As the parent of a Kindergartener, I can confirm, she does SOMETIMES pretend to be talking to a camera (in addition to tea parties and building forts and all the stuff a kid does.). I pretended to make radio shows when I was her age, with my tape recorder so I kinda see it as an evolution of that same concept, only just with more modern contextualized technology.

[@Industry-insider]

Dude the EPA is actually really fucking over companies right now for making aftermarket parts, everyone should look into it

[@murderouscroww]

i just need jabril to act as referee on every episode of the podcast from now on. always refraining from talking over people, getting everyone back on topic and even asking others to let kevin finish his point. its a nice change of pace from the usual chaos

[@basil127]

this is podcast that give the most value I've ever listen..

[@joemontgomery6658]

My highschool did two years with classes at a local college, and we had to do a placement test for math. They had just switched test providers, and the system messed up. Everyone of us got placed in the lowest bracket, despite that half of us had already taken Calc. They put the calc kids into trig, so we still all had to retake calc :(

[@jacoblara4175]

AI has been used so much by marketing that it means nothing. A neural net is just a bunch of complex algorithms that adjust based upon measurable metrics. It’s just a statistics problem. It’s not magic. It’s just data driven algorithms.

[@jim4556]

Care taker is cool! I'm glad she's finally in content in a meaningful way.

[@AceOfJokers000]

Will: Wake up, take a shit, get out of bed A man of true talent

[@Ozification]

Can we have more Jabril please! This podcast was amazing!

[@MikeStavola]

Yeah, like 15 years ago, I was looking for an apartment in a racially diverse, lower income neighborhood. I was given the okay to move into a decent apartment, and the landlord was going over the lease, and was like, "yeah, you don't need to worry about the criminal background check on the lease, you don't /look/ like a criminal." I noped the hell outta there.

[@azimby2844]

Jabril is an awesome guest and was really interesting to hear from, can't believe I've never heard of him until this, what a smart guy

[@MaxPrehl]

Wow, came for Jabrils, stayed for the great conversation and the laughs! Great podcast! Subscribed! Also lmao the ending 😂😂😂

[@thoufeekbaber8597]

I love this podcast so much. Damn this was so nice and at the end cutting abruptly when william just said it was hilarious. The thanks to jeff bezos for sponsoring is another amazing thing. dude this is so cool.

[@JamMan02]

"is your dad like that too" *never answers the question and stays silent*

[@HoneyMike]

This is the best one yet. Also I'm surprised nobody brought up the best thing to do at a doctor's office when we were kids; playing N64. I was in that waiting room playing Super Mario 64

[@jonconway912]

William mentioned how you where forced to sign to draft. I’m 16 and sighed that 2 weeks ago when I got my learners permit.

[@mrzozelowh]

I never pieced it together but them talking about school and signing up for the draft made me realize that's why they had physical fitness tests in public school

[@gun5219]

one of the major factors on why social media worldwide is massive is because of how integrated it is a lot of systems, most prominently Facebook for android. its so built in that you need to connect your pc and use the Android tools (adb and/or SDK) or root your phone (which manufacturers brick your phone if you try to) just to remove it completely.

[@dokuujin1851]

"Who hasn't come back bigger after being cancelled" actually had an answer. LeafyWasHere. He tried to come back and the internet just laughed at him.

[@gabrielleme3608]

This conversation actually took a very deep and interesting turn! Great podcast!

[@DaddyGamerReviews]

Great episode. Was talking with some friends recently about how millennials are in a unique situation where we have to teach both our parents and our children how to use the internet safely. I have regular conversations with both my child and my parents about being on the internet. Not letting an algorithm tell them what to watch on youtube and what to read. How important it is to step away and go do something else. How to spot scams. How to check sources and research. Its wild.

[@aidancampbell7935]

These episodes are one of the highlights of my week for sure

[@albertbuzek5007]

Oh wow! Loving the more serious conversations. Best episode yet!!!

[@JT-xn9ei]

This was a really interesting episode, even if it reminded me of some harsh truths. I still wish things werent so economy-driven, and selfishly at that. It's so imbued into history that I'm not sure if we can ever find a viable alternative that everyone would be content with.

[@general_grime]

41:40 I love how hard Allen laughs at his own joke

[@TBH_Inc]

I definitely didn’t do anything to sign up for the draft, I’m pretty sure it was included when I signed up to vote.

[@sakekasi]

A definition of ai that i really like is that it’s a program does things without being told exactly what to do. State behavior, minmax, neural nets, and sat solvers/logic systems/expert systems all fit that definition

[@mickeybuzzkill]

Thank you all for making the episode a little longer! I appreciate you all! Great episode! P.S Allen couldn't hide the fact that we was horngry this episode

[@gymcelsocialism]

Crazy to hear how Jabrils pointed out that capitalism drove the AI scare, and then everyone discussed ways that algorithms drive behaviour, and everyone accidentally perfectly described Jabrils' original point. The monetized algorithm is dialectically reflecting onto the user, changing how they act in response to increasing success. They are describing one of the purest examples of dialectical materialism in action.

[@UnderfundedScientist]

Can you imagine living in a house with Jabrils and Will

[@dukesvhs9062]

This is one of those episodes where i'm just dying to chime in, cause every fuckin argument that gets thrown out sends my brain into jimmy neutron brain blast mode

[@DukeBG]

at some point this podcast felt like "Jabrils, Chelsey and three clowns"

[@cubeboy5526]

Please keep doing these podcasts this really makes me happy

[@lordglobgalab4992]

That cut at the end tho😅 Im currently studying as an electromechanic and I have a schoolmate that went to university and he's well versed in philosophy and tbh hes a bit of a know it all. Anyway those two trait mixed makes it so we can have conversations and debate about pretty much anything anytime anyday in class. Funnily enough we recently had a debate about social media and AI recently. And this podcast was particularly interesting because of your takes on the subjects and it was very interesting ! I wish I could have been part of this conversation as there are so much to be said about it ! I love your podcasts and Im looking forward for the next one !

[@Nazerithe]

"The pledge is okay to do and also an expectation." That was said in an email from my principal to staff during the first week of school.

[@alexvaldes6299]

Such a great podcast. great topics covered and for a naturally good test taker the school topic was very interesting to me

[@perryallen9058]

Caretaker was a great guest! Love to see her pop in too chat with you all

[@chloebourassa4115]

Love this podcast! I think you guys are doing great for have never done with before!!