We're Still *So* Victorian // what is the victorian era (and how it defines us today)

[@EllieDashwood]

👒🔍 Download June’s Journey for free now using my link: woo.ga/8329bqtn (ad)

[@tessat338]

Many people don't realize that the white wedding gown was popularized by Queen Victoria at her wedding to Prince Albert. Before that, the bride wore her best dress and hopefully a new dress for her wedding. Before the Victorian era, white dresses for young women were popular in general but wedding gowns weren't defined as being white. Royal brides wore cloth of gold or silver and rich velvets or silks in different colors.

[@caram4746]

About the whole, "you can be maimed in my mill and that's fine," attitude, it makes my blood boil when politicians roll back the rights we have today. People don't remember how our ancestors literally fought for the better working conditions that we take for granted today.

[@EllieDashwood]

A lack of historical knowledge can be incredibly dangerous!

[@estrella125]

There are currently state governments in the “good olé’ US of A who have installed or are attempting to install laws allowing children under age to legally work in industries most of us would consider to be dangerously unsafe and/or unhealthy. And they consider it progress. The industrial revolution may not have improved after all.

[@litera_cj]

What I find most interesting about this conversation is the notion that, before the Victorian era, there might have been some cultural values/ideals that were less extreme than I've come to expect from historical periods. I think I have a tendency to view history as a long progression from "less civilized" to "more civilized" or "less enlightened" to "more enlightened"-incremental, but ultimately linear in its overall trend. But hearing the segment on how "traditional" gender roles were amplified due to the public discourse at the time gives me food for thought.

[@EllieDashwood]

This is such a good point! History isn't anywhere near as linear or positively progressive as we like to think it is sometimes.

[@katyb2793]

I am not a feminist in the sense of the word today, but I do believe in equality for all, and all throughout history in almost every country and culture, and to a point even today, women have been universally suppressed. It really makes you ask the question - why? I believe in part it's because women have an awful lot to offer. And because if women and men worked together, respecting, valuing and celebrating each other's strengths, we could achieve so much more good in this world. It's very sad what has happened all throughout history.

[@cmm5542]

When I started reading Shakespeare and Austen, it was quite a shock to find that the heroines were far more similar to the sassy, resilient heroines from WWII movies than the delicate and restricted heroines I was used to in Victorian fiction. Fun(?) fact: the first time I read Ivanhoe, I couldn't get through it because I was expecting Rebecca and Rowena to have Victorian-esque 'love interest' roles for Ivanhoe. Actually, they barely interact with him at all; they have their own stories as, in Rowena's case, a powerful noblewoman in her own right; and for Rebecca, determined mistress of her own fate despite her underprivileged position as a Jewess. I'm reading it again now. It's absolutely incredible.

[@cmm5542]

​@@katyb2793I don't actually think it's a difficult question to answer. At the end of the day, it comes back to physical strength; 'might makes right' thinking which unfortunately is prevalent in every era including our own. I'm just re-reading Northanger Abbey, and I've got to the part where John Thorpe drives past Henry and Eleanor Tilney despite Catherine's insistence that he stop. She knows she's right and she doesn't hold back in what she says about it; societal proprieties would have absolutely supported her view on it as well. But she still can't do anything; Thorpe simply drives on. If Catherine tries to grab the reins herself; he'll push back and the carriage will likely overturn and CATHERINE will be more likely to be hurt than he will. When she later apologises to Henry for her seeming rudeness, Catherine keeps repeating 'I would have come, if only Mr Thorpe would have stopped.' Henry, being a GENTLEMAN, understands that she had no power over the situation, because Thorpe is simply a bully and a brute and there is nothing Catherine or any other woman can do about that. But Catherine doesn't let it control her, which at the end of the day is all anyone can do with bullies who are bigger than you!

[@katyb2793]

@@cmm5542 yes I guess that's why men have succeeded at putting themselves in a more superior position over women. Women who say we are just as strong as men have wishful thinking. For the majority this is not true, and men use that advantage sometimes for evil. It's a sad world we live in where having the power is so prized..

[@lexanneklimes5411]

Queen Victoria re-popularized knitting and crochet as a woman's hobby. Knitting remains a fairly well-known hobby nowadays, because the Queen was like, "I like this", and everyone followed suite.

[@raphaelledesma9393]

That angel in the house stereotype was briefly discussed in Little Women the 1990s film: Men discussing the vote: Maybe we should let women have the vote. They can serve as a moral counterbalance to the men. Jo: Women shouldn't get the vote because we're angels and men are scoundrels but because we are also equal human beings.

[@EllieDashwood]

😂 Jo, always so shocking in her viewpoints.

[@MsJubjubbird]

Even then,until very recently, women, either directly, indirectly or subconsciously, took voting advice or instructions from their husband. Equality in education for women in western societies has only really levelled out in the last couple of decades. Wen in older generations may not have had the same income, professional status or education and many were home makers, or gave up their careers to be homemakers. Therefore, women would take some form of direction or indication of how to vote from their husbands. Only in recent elections had it been really important to appeal to women, as the younger generations have the education and independence to make their own decisions.

[@MiljaHahto]

Or the men tried to give them, but it varied a lot if the women actually followed the advice 😅

[@raphaelledesma9393]

It puts undue pressure on women when they are relegated to being merely a moral pillar. Women, like men, are not perfect but unlike men who could be morally imperfect but still have value because they were the prime movers and workers at the time, if women fell from that pedestal they were forever judged.

[@ingridaguero6460]

I always felt that Jo was kinda ‘not like other girls’ vibes. I never read the book so I’m only going off of the movies, but I felt that she only did and said things because she didn’t want to think of herself as girly.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

As much as the Victorian Era was about science and the next step in the Age of Enlightenment, there was a Mary Shelley who wrote ‘Frankenstein’ as a fierce critic of industrialisation.

[@LedgerAndLace]

P.S. My very proper British nurse mother stitched up my brother's finger at the kitchen table when he was eleven. She gave him a washcloth to bite on and told him, "Just think of England!"

[@EllieDashwood]

😂 He'll be prepared if he ever gets sucked back to the Victorian era. He has practice thinking of England. It's an essential skill.

[@LedgerAndLace]

@@EllieDashwood That should be a T-shirt! I'll tell him you said that! 🙂

[@LedgerAndLace]

It would be nice to think that we evolved not to allow child labor and awful working conditions. Once laws were put in place for the humane treatment of workers, corporations just moved to India and China. Victorian conditions are alive and well in those factories. As much as history changes, it stays the same.

[@EllieDashwood]

Yes! In a lot of ways, I think we're even worse than the Victorians. They lived off the backs of child labor and poor working conditions but they also had to live with it and see it in their cities. They admitted this was their reality. We live the same way but we hide it away as far as possible from us so we can live in denial.

[@cmm5542]

​@@EllieDashwoodI agree with you, Ellie!

[@HermioneGirl1987]

I have a good book to read if you like the Victorian era. It’s a small book (not long) called Lydie. It’s about a young girl about 14-16 named Lydie. She has to go to work for her family to help them because they’re poor. She gets a job at a cotton mill and it’s a good look into how the lower class carries the factories. And her personal life in the society. It’s great for any age of about 5th grade to adults. I think it’s a good look into the real world of Victorian life without the whimsical stuff we see in the upper classes. The things that we don’t usually see. I think it’s something everyone should read. It showcases the hard work and dedication that laid the foundation for our regulations we have now and why they are there.

[@indiegirl100]

I would recommend "Larkrise to Candleford" by Flora Thompson, as she discussed what is what like growing up in a rural area in the late victorian era, and how some of the attitudes were very victorian or even older, but in some ways women and girls had more freedom.

[@debbiegauvain8539]

I second the Larkrise series! I didn’t read the books, but love the bbc videos!

[@indiegirl100]

@@debbiegauvain8539 I love the series too, they create storylines for the characters - the book is mostly descriptive, but it's interesting to hear the details of daily life she includes 🙂

[@mikakestudios5891]

The Victorians were definitely present when my mother (at 17) told me "its best to wait for marriage" and never said a single other word. Fortunately, I had the internet 😅

[@EllieDashwood]

Oh no! 🙈 She was keeping the Victorian spirit alive. 😂

[@tell-me-a-story-]

Why is that bad? Waiting for marriage solves a lot of problems. And it’s a fact that 17 year olds aren’t ready for sex anyways. And I don’t think it’s best that you learned this stuff from random weirdos on the internet.

[@mikakestudios5891]

@@tell-me-a-story- My parents didn't talk to me about consent, condoms, or WHY waiting until marriage would be good.

[@tell-me-a-story-]

@@mikakestudios5891 I guess you probably wanted more answers than just that.

[@mikakestudios5891]

@@tell-me-a-story- I would have killed to have someone like Dr. Mama Jones give me the sex talk. Instead I had to go to gay, Gundam, fanfiction to learn the most basic of basics.

[@ThanksHermione]

Lots of people point to the Victorian Era as an ideal time where wives staid at home with the kids instead of having careers. They don’t get that this only applied to families who could afford it. The lower and at least some of the middle class families had wives who worked. Also, the wives who staid at home paid for governesses to care for the kids so they could focus on running the household. They had servants like maids, housekeepers, and cooks as well.

[@archervine8064]

I think one book that really gets at the vulnerability of the Victorian woman is tenant of Wildfell Hall. The heroine is from a reasonably well off family and marries a wealthy man and has an adorable child. Her husband however turns out to be an alcoholic, gambler, and abusive. She is only able to flee because of a kind relative and her own skill at art, which she uses to earn some money and barely scrapes by. She is found, dragged back, threatened with the loss of the child as he has sole custody as the father, etc. Certainly, not every Victorian marriage was like that but just the possibility must have been terrifying.

[@cmm5542]

I think George Bernard Shaw's Pygmalion explores the different standards for different classes best, with the running gag about 'middle class morality.' Didn't apply to the working class, OR the nobility who were much more casual about morals. And how much an issue it was in the middle class depended on how much money you had (Higgins' mom does just fine, because she's well off. Freddie's mom, on the other hand, or Eliza's own prospects . . .). And no one ever talks about Mrs Pearce, educated, professional, almost certainly single ('Mrs' was a courtesy title that did not necessarily denote marital status back then), in control of her own life and household and frankly Higgins! I learned so much about the Victorian Era from that play.

[@hjpngmw]

You're awesome, too! Growing up on the Southeast coast of the U.S., I feel like many Victorian ideas are still alive and well. These are especially obvious during "election season" when it feels like every candidate wants to restrict something (women's rights) or keep something quiet (old white males with power/money having affairs).

[@Turquerina]

It's the whole thing of wanting to go back to the gilded age of workers having longer hours and lesser pay while the wealthy get to have their balls and social seasons. Obviously, that still happens today with many conflicts and poverty around the world while the rich hosts events like Met Gala, Olympics and extravagant celebrity weddings.

[@kirstenpaff8946]

I wonder how much Victorian gender roles also had to do with the rise of the middle class. It was the first time in history where a significant portion of women didn't have to work to support their families. Obviously working class families still depended on two incomes to make ends meet. A woman being able to dedicate herself completely to the home was a marker of class and so the women's rights movement went beyond just defying gender norms, but threatening the class structure as well.

[@cmm5542]

I completely subscribe to this theory. The more I read about the Victorian and preceding eras, the more connections I see between 'middle-class morality' and the changes in gender expectations in the Victorian Era. Even reading Jane Austen, I think she would have been surprised by how much more specific 'women's roles' would become in a couple of decades. Her characters are far more varied than most female characters in Victorian fiction (and I have read a LOT of Victorian fiction!)

[@cmm5542]

Oh, and also what you said about defying class structure - we often forget the suffragists were fighting for the WORKING MAN'S right to vote as well as women's - the defiance or at least restructuring of classist norms was a huge part of it. Women's education as well - one of the issues with women's universities like Girton at Cambridge was that they accepted students from all walks of life. It wasn't just that the men didn't want WOMEN at university, they didn't want to change the whole classist structure of the universities to match the more egalitarian format of women's education!

[@penni1153]

Women’s rights had zero to do with the middle class coming into existence. That’s a change in economic principles. Meanwhile, the fools of today will vote for their own economic enslavement by supporting romanticizing socialist ideology. Every era has its positives and negatives but throwing the baby out with the bath water is intellectually ignorant

[@booksandtea1663]

Please make a longer video on this topic if you can! Love your videos Ellie!

[@rosannasordo]

just seeing your video pop up was a huge emotion! And your voice is so lovely that I did not skip the AD. Money well spent, sponsors! ;)

[@EllieDashwood]

Awwwwwww! Yay. I'm so glad! Thank you so much!!!!!

[@ActonBell1848]

It was nice to see a video about the Victorian Era. My favorite authors are the Brontes who wrote during the Victorian period with the elegant but pointed critiques of ideas held by society.

[@chibigirl1233]

One thing I found rather interesting about Charles Dickens novels which are set in the Victorian era is how he gave some of his female characters grace to be imperfect, namely Emily and Dora from David Copperfield, Louisa from Hard Times and Nancy from Oliver Twist. I assumed that maybe women weren't being looked down on as much as I'm the past, for instance, when Emily runs away with Steerforth in David Copperfield, her uncle isn't angry with her and her fiance says that it was his fault for pushing his feelings onto her rather than asking what she wanted. I guess it didn't quite reflect all of society but did it at least reflect some of the changing ideals?

[@cmm5542]

Actually Dickens was pushing back on the more recent trend of looking down on 'fallen' women. It was far worse in the Victorian Age than it had been in previous centuries. I was shocked to learn how in the Tudor and Restoration periods, being a king's mistress was a ticket to an upper-class marriage/inheritance - Victorian mistresses were essentially off the marriage market! Medieval women ran guilds and were more likely to be successful professionals than Victorian middle-class women (obviously the working class was another story altogether). The Victorian Age probably had the LEAST rights for women since ancient times. Which is why it was also the period when revolt against it started.

[@cathipalmer8217]

My grandmother (b.1907) was told by her grandmother (b.1840s) that there was no need to give in to her husband more than once a month. Her reply, "I guess if I like it, I will."

[@cmm5542]

Your grandmother sounds amazing!

[@EllieDashwood]

Your great-great-grandmother was doing her best to keep the Victorian tradition alive. 😂

[@Patricia-kk8tr]

Restricting sex allowed women to protect themselves from annual childbirth. A world where contraceptives were unreliable, and annual pregnancies exhausted women.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

Back to Friday uploads? WE ARE SO BACK!

[@EllieDashwood]

🔥🔥

[@helenenichtfischer6181]

I simply adore your channel. This video is both really short but still manages to be very informative AND humorous! ❤

[@JBabyLeather]

Another great video. It’s amazing how many standards were set during this era

[@cmm5542]

Victoria was a powerful woman. She made a LOT of changes to British society without even seeming to try very hard! I still prefer Elizabeth I, however.

[@N_0968]

Oh I used to play June’s Journey a few years ago. Haven’t been keeping up with it recently but it is a fun game. Nice to have a new video to watch while I’m having my afternoon coffee. ❤

[@EllieDashwood]

It is a super fun game! I'm obsessed with my garden. 😂I hope you have the best coffee time!

[@ladykatietx]

So glad your videos are back! I would love to see some Emma and S&S content if you get tired of P&P at any point. Thanks for all you do! ❤

[@EllieDashwood]

Awww! Thank you! I actually try to include examples and information from all of Austen’s novels in my videos. For example, in my next video I discuss Pride and Prejudice, Persuasion and Emma. The video after that I talk a lot about Mansfield Park. But the reason I title them to relate to P&P is purely for the algorithm. After much testing and learning about what will do well on YT, I know that if I lead with S&S it simply will not get views. But if I lead with P&P in the title and thumbnail but then slip some S&S analysis later in the video too, then it will. 😂

[@ladykatietx]

@@EllieDashwood oh that makes total sense! Looking forward to whatever is ahead on the channel then. "Keep being awesome, because you're awesome!!" 😎

[@katiekiyokogammon]

Immaculate video Ellie!! I’d watch hours of you talking about the Victorian era if I could lol

[@EllieDashwood]

Awwwww!!! That's so sweet! Thank you so much!

[@PokhrajRoy.]

7:16 Dame EMMA THOMPSON had a sketch based on this where a young Victorian girl talks about ‘an animal’ that her husband had. That sketch series was how she was approached for adapting ‘Sense And Sensibility’ by Lindsay Doran

[@debbiesivertson817]

You make learning history so easy and fun!!!❤❤❤

[@EllieDashwood]

Awwww! Thank you 😊💕

[@jonythemoony]

Glad to see another of your awesome history videos, Ellie. And love the red blouse 🙂 I found interesting that Victorian era has been used for fantasy and sci-fi elements on the past years. Like in The Nevers, Carnival Row (the series takes place on a steampunk victorian world) and Bodies (alternating between 4 timelines). And they introduce these kind of characters who feel modern but accurate to the way people lived on the Victorian era.

[@debbiegauvain8539]

I’m learning so much about the Victorian era! Both from your video and some of these posts. Thank you, Ellie, for the topic! Also- re: June’s Journey- I played a year or 2 ago, downloaded it again after you talked about it. If you create a team, please let us know. It would be so much fun to play with people you can relate to! 😊

[@mileyrodriguez9432]

I have a question? Well 4 question, What the difference with the different types of dukes like duke, archduke and grandduke which was higher and most powerful? What each did? What are the different noble titles and courtesy titles? What each did and which is higher and powerful? I hope it's not a bother.😁

[@Draconisrex1]

Ah, my favorite young lady KZbinr that discusses the 'Novel of Manners' coupled with the 'realism' genres in fiction.

[@EllieDashwood]

Awwww!

[@keiryko]

Ellie! Good to see a new video from you! Hope you're doing well 💖

[@cent178]

Loved all your regency videos and used in a library presentation with attribution. Thx!!!!🌸📚📚

[@Historidame]

Love the illustrations you used in this video! Were they all from the same artist?

[@alinaruff6540]

I was really interested in a similar kind of video about the Georgian gender roles and family dynamics.

[@cmm5542]

That would be cool, but much harder to research. Ellie is right that the Victorians left their marl on our current society to a much greater extent than any other; it's much easier to learn about them. I've just started researching the Georgian period myself, and it is a regular treasure hunt!

[@VeganDiyeBiri]

They way got excited and charming, hahahha enjoying your videos so much you are so sincere! Keep going thanks for the content. Good stuff Ellie!

[@kristina_vikev]

Such an entertaining and educational video! Thank you ❤

[@angelavonborstel185]

Defense grew up with life is hard deal... learning that balance as a woman that works with children and wants them to thrive but also show respect, be polite, and care for others. It's hard to do it all and still prioritize your own self-worth and care.

[@giadamarinangeli9358]

Hi💕 could you make a video about the difference between the regency and the Victorian era? You are amazing💕💕💕

[@PokhrajRoy.]

6:56 Watched a period drama based on this: ‘The Bostonians’ (1984). You’ll love it

[@luigi-1545]

Ellie! I liked this video is yours, it's always interesting to find out & understand the culture of past eras. Do you think you'd be able to comment on these principles while highlighting themes and situations presented in victorian era novels/movies, like you did with the regency era and jane austen works? Little women and gone with the wind could be good candidates ;)

[@cmm5542]

Technically Gone With the Wind isn't a Victorian novel. It's a historical fiction written in the 1920s that demonstrates more how they VIEWED the Victorian Era in the 1920s than the Victorian Era itself. Which is still very interesting, but exaggerated and oversimplified and lacking the nuance to be found in novels written about the Victorian Era actually DURING the era. I always say, 'When you read historical fiction, you tend to learn as much about the era it was written in as the era it was written ABOUT!'

[@luigi-1545]

@@cmm5542 i know it isn't! but considering it's one of the bigger pieces of media centered around that time and also the story touches upon most of the points discussed here i think it'd be interesting to have ellie talk about them even if it's for fact checking!

[@cmm5542]

​@@luigi-1545Oh yes, I completely agree! That would make a VERY intriguing video!

[@here_we_go_again2571]

We in the modern world do not give the Victorians enough credit for the way they adapted and changed their society in their attempt to cope with the massive changes in their lives. We make fun of them and call them prudes or secret degenerates., ignorant, etc..

[@EllieDashwood]

They definitely had so much they were dealing with!

[@here_we_go_again2571]

@@EllieDashwood Even if you were financially stable; having to deal with new forms of transportation, rapidly changing investment opportunities, new requirements for education, farming, running one's household (wood -->coal, water supplies) and the crumbling of social structure based on life-long acquaintances, niches within a stable, relatively unchanging society and types of labor would have been overwhelming. Let alone if you were a tenant farmer thrown off marginal farmland because it economically made more sense to change the use of the land to grazing. Where would you go? What would you do?

[@PokhrajRoy.]

I want to imagine a reality where Queen Victoria could’ve met Jane Austen and dedicated a book to her or something

[@EllieDashwood]

Ooooo, that would have been so cool! Those dumb aliens kidnapping Jane Austen to outer space at such a young age so she wasn't here to see the Victorian Era. 😭

[@veronicaleighauthor]

Yay, a new video! Another great one! Probably the stiff upper lip thing carried on down through my family and is still present in us. I'll have to look into June's Journey, sounds fun. I'm getting bored with FarmVille.

[@EllieDashwood]

I love June's Journey so much! I'm obsessed with my Estate's garden. I just got a Venice canal garden feature in it that I'm very excited about. 😂 Also, the stiff upper lip thing is a hard one to unlearn!

[@sputnikone6281]

What was so special about the Victorian era for me personally is that it was the last time my boss gave me a raise!

[@Joannachin]

Not me reading wives and daughters from the first time and learning who she ends up with in this vid 😅😂

[@marroosh]

In terms of workers rights we haven’t really changed have we? Well perhaps somewhat. We care about workers in western countries but we are happy to buy clothes and goods manufactured by children in Bangladesh and the Congo or forced labour by imprisoned Uyghur Muslims in China. In that sense we haven’t changed much!

[@cmm5542]

Sadly only too true.

[@ThanksHermione]

We still see the victorian idea to have a stiff upper lip when bad things happen today. "Just pull yourself up by your bootstraps." "In my day we didn't cry or whine when things got tough. You're making too big of a deal about this." People's feelings are dismissed and getting help especially for mental health is looked down on by some.

[@cathipalmer8217]

Didn't fit in well in the mills.

[@cent178]

Hope you dive into Victorian Era too!

[@PokhrajRoy.]

5:56 I just learned about how coffee and tea were gendered because coffee was for the ‘thinking man’ and tea was for ‘leisurely ladies’ atleast among a certain strata

[@BCKammen]

Gotta love some Jules Vern....

[@penultimateh766]

This woman should be teaching university courses. Of course in America a lot of this was profoundly influenced by the Civil War, and how women were kind of put on a pedestal and thought to need protection from all the horror and unpleasantness....Also I wanted to watch your vid on hosting a regency ball again but I can't seem to find it. Hope you didn't take it down.

[@BethDiane]

Both Virginia Woolfe (in Three Guineas) and historian Theodore Roszak (Masculine/ Feminine, "The Hard and the Soft") have suggested that a big cause of WW1 was antifeminist backlash.

[@lipingrahman6648]

It could be argued that the Victorian era was the age when pity and humanity won over the darker aspects of species. We have the Victorians to thank for large scale labor movements, defending democracy, advancing science, rationalizing law and bureaucracy, and most importantly freeing mankind from the degeneracy of the agrarian life.

[@kerriemckinstry-jett8625]

I mean, if you're female or female presenting and living in the US today, you've been dealing with conservative ideas about gender roles your entire life. It's crazy to watch a movie from, e.g. the 1980s & see what attitudes towards women were. Things are largely better, now, but...

[@EllieDashwood]

Watching movies from the 70s and 80s is always so crazy to me too. Like, why did they think so much of this behavior is okay?!

[@kerriemckinstry-jett8625]

@@EllieDashwood Hi! A lot of that was leftover from Victorian attitudes. Don't worry, sweetheart, I will lift that heavy object for you. (Picks up a small stack of books, shows off way more muscle than necessary for the task). 🤮 Don't go into a Home Depot unaccompanied by your own guy. 🙄

[@PokhrajRoy.]

6:16 To quote Lois Griffin: “That’s right: I do groceries.”

[@VineAL-d9h]

Lord byron🗣🖋📝🔥

[@EllieDashwood]

The OG

[@yperman2025]

The regency (and 18th century) made the 1960s Woodstock hippies look puritanical. Please note your 7yrs ago trip to Pemberley in England the town of Reading is pronounced Red...ing not Reading.Really impressed with your analysis of Mary Bennets role in p&p. Suggestion look up the Regency 11th Duke of Norfolk who sired 56 children outside of marriage Note do not get confused with the current 18th Duke of Norfolk who is totally respectable!

[@cmm5542]

Yes, so much of what we believe about history as a whole tends to be only true of the Victorian Age! They definitely left their mark! 😂

[@PokhrajRoy.]

2:27 Jago Hazzard has great videos on demographics changing over the years through the prism of railways

[@PokhrajRoy.]

I don’t have any sympathy for her personally but I liked the love story between Queen Victoria and Prince Albert. (Royalty Now has a great video on it)

[@EllieDashwood]

The love they had for each other really was incredible, especially given the circumstances and everything.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

8:45 Literally the whole Indian education system especially the All-Boys Boarding School ecosystem

[@BladeRedwind]

I have to disagree on the point of a man not being able to enter or dictate a woman's sphere. If a man wanted dinner or his home a certain way, he could very easily get it that way. Men were very much allowed to enter many women's spaces and did so; whereas women were strictly forbidden from ever entering men's spaces. Women did, of course, but consequences and uproars happened. Great video, Ellie! Thanks again for the deep dive and explanation. And covering why we have these traditions now.

[@cmm5542]

No, that's simply not true. Men who tried to intervene on a 'woman's sphere' would be looked down on and scorned with the exact same contempt as a woman trying to muscle in on a man's sphere. It frequently occurs in later stories, where 'modern' young men are trying to 'do their part' in the household, getting kicked out and told in no uncertain terms to stay out of the women's way. Men were not even supposed to talk to female servants, let alone give them instructions. And a cook would not listen to a mere MAN trying to contradict 'Madam's' instructions. Other men would laugh at (and possibly accuse of 'effeminacy') any man who tried to get involved in female pursuits. And getting told to 'go down to the pub', get out of the kitchen, out of the HOUSE, out of the women's way, you have no place here, was very much standard practice. Even today, the old ladies in my village whose grandmothers passed on their Victorian ways to them, run the local festivals and 'teas' for cricket games, and their husbands had better not express an opinion! They can carry the food and put it down where they are told, that is all. This is where the ladies rule. It's VERY Victorian. Edit: Men were not allowed to visit ladies' clubs without invitation any more than ladies could men's. It would have caused a HUGE scandal.

[@ingridaguero6460]

It seems like those strict, Victorian rules were mostly fallowed by the small 1% of rich people. It seems that the everyday, lower class people were more “free” with sex and moral and even gender roles.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

Have you ever read ‘Vile Victorians’ by Terry Deary from the Horrible Histories Series?

[@martinmaynard141]

When I was in my late teens (early 1980s) used to work with an older woman who loved Mrs Thatcher and her "return to Victorian values" rehetoric. For her it was all about sex!

[@fmcg5364]

I don't really think that we are out of the Victorian era in the US. So many social issues are still the same.

[@jldisme]

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[@duncanward1718]

Victorian family values from my Grandfather. If you're going to cry boy come with me to the workshop and my rubber strap will give you something to cry about. I was 6 and that thing stung, but I know how to keep a stiff upper lip and carry on.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

5:56 This whole gendered sphere was the basis for colonialism: The hard, rough industry would ‘tame’ the primal forces of nature. I’m paraphrasing stuff but I hope I made my point.

[@Richardsonprincess00]

What if these couples divorce in Victorian era there?

[@cmm5542]

Divorce was entirely legal, but not 'no fault' divorce. You had to have a reason why your partner had failed you (cheating, abuse), and provide evidence of it. I'm watching the 1970s (right before this started to change) TV show 'Randall and Hopkirk (Deceased) right now, Jeff Randall and Marty Hopkirk are private investigators and much of their work is finding evidence for divorce cases. Whenever Marty complains about the state of their finances, 'We haven't had a case in weeks!' Jeff just retorts 'It's not my fault if the husbands are behaving themselves!' 😆

[@cherylbrooks7005]

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[@Heothbremel]

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[@adorabell4253]

My thing that most was present in my life is the dog poop takes of victorians on the middle ages.

[@mariar3767]

Unfortunately we see today a push back to less workers rights and the all traditional gender roles . All these conservative saying that the man works sbd the woman stay at home talk a lot about a farytale version of society , about rich people lives . In poor families everyone worked , kids too. My grandfather worked since he was 7 . His family wasnt even super poor . His father had a job and they also had land to grow food and they had animals . Still it was not enough to support the family so as kids got a little older they got jobs . Real life is not a movie . The rights we enjoy now are also a resoult of the 2 world wars . During the first people realised aristocracy was not superior and also lower class got jobs in town , less people accepted be servants . On the batle field those officers from aristocracy were a disaster and made oeoplecwuestion the the divine right to rule . During the wars women took a lot of jobs and reslised they can very well do those men jobs . A lot for stuff like home apliances and prepared food in stores are a resoult of no servants so some other type of help was needed and it came from technology .

[@PokhrajRoy.]

My favourite thing about the Victorian Era was the lax business ethics. I’m sorry, do you want fur? Let me destroy indigenous ecosystems for your effing coat

[@EllieDashwood]

Ethics do have a way of opposing the plundering of the world. It's rather inconvenient if you're the Victorians. 😂

[@janiecehamblen933]

I would rather have a Regency era world. My grandparents were from the Victorian era. 3 out of 4 were not very moral.

[@faithful2thecall]

I think you could make a solid argument that the stiff upper lip attitude from the Victorian Era is what helped carry England during World War 2 long enough for the US to become an active combatant instead of just selling things to the allies.

[@EllieDashwood]

Ooo, that's an interesting thought!

[@markbenyon8813]

It is more likely that the British understood the morally bankrupt nature of the Fascist forces. The 'stiff upper lip' only really applied and applies to a small section of the UK (and Empire) population. The resistance was based on an ethical choice.

[@cmm5542]

Ever heard the song 'Stiff Upper Lip' from the film 'Damsel in Distress' with Fred Astaire? It basically makes this argument in the very time period you're talking about! Obviously anything can be carried too far, but I think we have lost this sense of courage and resilience to such an extent these days that it's unlikely my generation could win ANY war!

[@charis6311]

@@markbenyon8813 You are kidding, right?

[@markbenyon8813]

@charis6311 Much as people enjoy a good stereotype, and it is no doubt fun to play such characters, it is naturally not representative of the UK population. You should still e joy the comedis stereotype! 😉

[@leilawilliams8175]

As someone who was raised in a manner that was the closest thing to Victorian (except for perhaps some conservative non-electric communities,) I have a lot of understanding of the way they lived and thought. When a person has never watched bedroom scenes in movies or had sexual experiences before marriage and only read 1 book on the topic that was purposefully vague... yeah, you don't feel super prepared when you try the marriage bed. My husband was equally ignorant, but we have no regrets! When you both love each other and are determined to make sure the other person has a good time, it's fun to learn sex together with no pressure or baggage from previous relationships!

[@writer1986]

This was such a hypocritical, confusing period to be a woman. Firstly, the British empire was ruled by a woman, yet women were told be "domestic angels in the home". Secondly, women were told to be a wife and mother, yet they had to send their young children to work and be ok with their husbands doing who-knows-what outside of the house. Thirdly, if they wanted to look like the Jones, they had to hire women to cook, clean, and care for the kids--meaning they were not wives nor mothers during the day.... As much as this is my favorite time period, I would have been extremely depressed, had I been born during this time.

[@cmm5542]

You're assuming the Victorians thought the same rules applied to everyone. They didn't. It was a very class-based society. Staying at home was a middle-class thing, showing off how well you had done for yourself that you didn't have to work. Yeah, going to work when your husband made more than enough money to support the family would have been seen as an insult - and a suggestion that you weren't really as well of as you pretended! No one expected working-class women to stay at home. The sexual and behavioral mores were extremely varied by class and situation. No one Victorian woman would have been expected to uphold all the standards you've listed at once. Also, simply because romantic fiction of the time always presented women as perfect, does NOT mean they were EXPECTED to be perfect! We are talking about idealized FICTIONAL characters, and it's hardly offensive to women that women were always used to personify virtue and men vice! Men were; however, expected to treat women AS THOUGH they were perfect regardless of whether they were or not. Though even this only applied to 'gentleman' and 'ladies', not the working ot merchant classes. Finally, most of these strictures were imposed by Victoria herself. She was a very conservative and highly controlling monarch. It's usually other women putting social pressures on women, throughout history.