We Test 7 Drogues - with and without chain

[@williamwallace176]

Is there not a recommended length of line between the boat and the drogue? It appears you are using a very short line.

[@ParaAnchors]

Fiorentino recommends using its Shark drogue with ten feet of rode x boat length in worst case scenarios. The average length deployed is usually 300 feet. The video you were viewing was shot in flat calm seas which only requires a short length of rode. We believe your intended use is a big factor in how much rode to deploy. That’s why our company publishes online manuals and videos about rode use. Fiorentino currently is the only manufacturer to provide instruction on how to make rode adjustments for various boats and changing seas. You can find the information at para-anchor.com/info.perform.html. What’s published from other manufacturers at the moment: Delta: Min. 200 ft., Galerider: Min., 350 ft., para-drogue: 263 ft., Seabrake: 3 x Boat’s length, plus 30% surplus, Seaclaw: 177 ft.

[@nniicchh]

How much rode was deployed for these tests/comparisons? The drogues look pretty close to the stern of the boat.

[@ParaAnchors]

The anchor rode used for the test was a 40-foot (12.2 m) length of 5/8-inch (16 mm) rode. The 40-foot length was chosen because it was unnecessary to pay out larger amounts of rode in flat calm weather and it made it easier to observe the behavior of these devices since they were closer to the boat. Technical Report FPA-136 on our website explains all of this in complete details and much more. para-anchor.com/reports/tech.report.136.pdf

[@nniicchh]

Fiorentino Para-Anchor Thanks so much for answering my question and posting this technical report. It really helps to have all this information, and to deal with such a responsive company.

[@duaneharnes]

Great info. I wonder if you think the "series" test w/weight should have been done again with a proper deployment to get a more accurate reading. I do appreciate the knowledge that entanglement is a potential with the device as demonstrated.

[@ParaAnchors]

Because of past experiences testing the device (many of Fiorentino’s sea trials are published online) we felt it wasn’t necessary to redeploy it. We believe our testing makes it clear that the “series” has close to double the drag compared to speed-limiting drogues. This extra drag can be a problem with a flat transom boat as the device may hold too much water permitting waves to catch up to the boat and swamp it. A double ender or canoe stern vessel can usually get away with a wave strike.

[@ParaAnchors]

In reference to the “series” rode tangle, it’s important to make sure all of the rode is carefully flaked before any storm drogue deployment. Fiorentino’s Zack Smith explains in his seminars that “Storm drogue deployment tends to be more difficult because it occurs under very fast conditions that can cause rode to wrap around itself and tangle. The fact that cruisers frequently have lots of equipment stored at the stern of the boat can also add to difficulties in deployment as well as retrieval.”Fiorentino Para-Anchor

[@ParaAnchors]

What's recommended by suppliers is to place weight at the end of the series drogue, not the middle. They also suggest to slowly payout the rode. This can be difficult to accomplish with a fast moving boat, especially if you follow the U.S. Coast Guard recommendation of adding 35 to 50 lbs. of weight to the series drogue. The reality is tangles can occur. Most other devices require either no weight or a limited amount averaging out to 10 lbs.

[@hunsadersrockinranch]

No swivel on your shackles? 13:43. Never mind! Thanks! This vid. was very helpful! Para-drogue seems the best buy? Besides the yawning. Still interested in the Shark tho.

[@ParaAnchors]

Many manufacturers have little to no instruction at all. Many do not offer swivels as part of their purchase. Second, swivels commonly lock up under loading. Hence the importance of designing a storm drogue, which doesn’t spin or yaw. Another question to ask. If you wish to use the storm drogue for emergency steering can you bring it close to the boat? We suggest you directly contact the manufacturer to see what discounts the company can offer.

[@hunsadersrockinranch]

@@ParaAnchors Thank you!

[@geofftrott4268]

Great job Zack! An inventor myself, I appreciate your research efforts toward building better safety equipment.

[@jackneff179]

I believe the yaw could have been avoided if you had a "Y" or two point connection to the boat. With out it the drogue is pulling on one side of the boat against the course being steered and being overwhelmed by the screw.

[@ParaAnchors]

We used a bridle in Tech Report FPA-124 and it has no effect on drogue designs that cavitate, sit above the surface, or yaw. Some of the storm drogues, as shown in our video, tracked straight as a storm drogue is supposed to, others did not. Fiorentino’s well established tow test parameters using load cell equipment as outlined in our video, has been accepted by Naval engineers working with the department of the Navy and has been adopted by sailing experts in our industry. More recently, Practical Sailor conducted similar tests, but primarily deployed 1/3 scale models in their comparison. Real-life deployment in gale or heavy weather scenarios, then yes, we use a bridle. For this type of load cell testing, no.

[@DonutDean]

thanks for doing the test. I wonder how a tyre would have compared?

[@ParaAnchors]

+DonutDean We reviewed several Fiorentino tire drogue deployment tests from the 1990s and early 2000s and found the devices effective; as long as chain was added to them. One 29 lb. tire drogue, hand-made by commercial fisherman, Gerrard Fiorentino, had more drag than a speed-limiting drogue and during some instances, had the same holding power as a stopping drogue aka series drogue. However, fabric drogues like the Shark are easier to handle and store. Fiorentino’s early research has been registered with the U.S. Copyright Office. facebook.com/fiorentino.anchor/photos/a.188750021277080.1073741826.175899672562115/612855245533220/?type=3

[@ParaAnchors]

+k price Yes, many things can create drag. How it performs in varied weather conditions is a different story. Fiorentino has learned from experience that metal anchors and warps frequently lack enough holding power to successfully slow a boat. Boat design does play a role. For instance, a full keel sailboat might track well with a makeshift device, whereupon a fin keel vessel tends to jog around too much. Multihulls with their fast speed usually require extra components. The purpose of a shark drogue is to improve performance and to simplify.

[@homefront3162]

Fiorentino Para-Anchor I just watched his video on his tire drogue.... All these videos are very informative, I am only a Beachcat Sailor but love learning about all of this

[@ParaAnchors]

Please make sure your google plus setting permits everyone to reply to your comments. Otherwise we have to post separately. Here's a good how to video for changing your settings: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3vWpYuFpZWdoNE

[@ParaAnchors]

If you liked this video then might like seeing a close up comparison of the world’s top rated parachute style sea anchors: Parachute Sea Anchor COMPARISON for Storm Use

[@bitclear670]

Once caught by heavy sea and stong winds in my way from Montevideo to Falklands I come to learn it would be nice to use a "drogue'.. So found 1 small carpet, 5 towels and a pair of jean trowsers and tied them up separated to a long dacron At the end my chain and anchor did the job On bare poles, such infantry never emerged but did a pretty good job on waves! (Don't know on engine) Hod did they perform? Well; I am commenting.. Ah; in addition the clothes returned onboard clean! Nice stuff! Take care and good winds!

[@ParaAnchors]

Very Funny....thank you.

[@ParaAnchors]

The US Coast Guard supports Fiorentino's “Setting the Record Straight” article about drogues: www.para-anchor.com/reports/yachting_world_drogue_article.

[@rhadash]

Thanks for posting these videos. They gave me a lot of information that sales people have never mentioned. I was particularly interested in the information about the 1987 USCG report. I actually got a copy and read it. It does say all drogues work if they are properly sized and gives no endorsement to any drogue or sea anchor. I think more people should read it as well. After the posts and reading the report, I realize how much mis-information is out there. It's going to make me a lot more careful about just accepting what anyone says, particularly in magazine articles.

[@ParaAnchors]

+rhadash Articles written poorly or paid advertorials (Ads made to look like a legitimate unbiased article) can be problematic. Fake bloggers can also contribute to misinformation. And it’s important to remember that none of the newer storm drogues or para-anchors in our videos were tested in the 1987 USCG report. In reality, only a make-shift cone style drogue was tested against the series drogue. Both devices were referred to as a drogue, sea anchor, and parachute anchor in the report. This can make reading the report confusing. Maybe this is why sales people inaccurately claim that the USCG “recommends” their product or why the sales people might inaccurately say their “device tested better” than another. As you already stated, there was no endorsement.

[@roddycoleman6169]

It is important to realize that this comparison and comments by Fiorentino are totally BIASED. They talk about safety concerns, yet parachute anchors are notorious for being dangerous to deploy and recover, require constant monitoring resulting in endangering crew who have to be on deck and can result in damage to rudders. The majority of accounts by sailors who used a parachute anchor report that they could not be recovered and were cut adrift.

[@ParaAnchors]

Your post is puzzling because the video you refer to is about storm drogue comparison testing, not parachute sea anchors. The video shows a Fiorentino test of seven storm drogues each of which was towed behind a boat with a load cell to measure force on the boat accurately and impartially. You seem to be confusing the para-anchors with stopping (series) drogues as both are passive tactics that require equal effort to deploy and retrieve. Although, the stopping (series) drogues are known to be more dangerous because equipment tangles are more likely to occur around the prop since deployment takes place at the stern of a boat and not the bow. Not to mention that a 1987 USCG report outlines the significant danger of cockpit flooding by presenting the stern of a boat to weather. Nonetheless your statements about parachute anchors are inaccurate. Fiorentino para-anchors have been tested and are in use by NASA which has determined they are safer to use than storm drogues.

[@Cyrusmagi]

all your negative remarks are about poor planning and storage/ deployment. Properly prepared sea Anchors are very useful and will safe you and your boat in very rough or high conditions. Ensuring chafe reduction and retrueval are in place. yes it does take time to retrieve a sea anchor but you only does this as conditions moderate. It dangerous riding a push bike on any lroad but millions do it!

[@malchugan2469]

Many thanks, good job!

[@ParaAnchors]

Thank you.

[@malchugan2469]

@@ParaAnchors How many cones did you use on drogue for this test (164 kg resistant)? I think your line could handle ~5000+ kg

[@ParaAnchors]

@@malchugan2469 At least a hundred. The Fiorentino deployment rode used during the test has a published break strength of 16,000 lbs. (7257 kg) so good guess.

[@ParaAnchors]

Seaya's series drogue video: Anchoring the stern to the weather to slow the boat down to ½ a knot of drift is extremely dangerous and can easily swamp a boat. Fortunately the sea state in your situation was mild. Speed-limiting drogues or a makeshift device are much easier to deploy and reduce a boat’s speed to a safer level. This would have kept your boat moving so you could get out of the shipping lanes safely.

[@ParaAnchors]

In response to Klaus Beckmann (Wind-Sonne-Segeln) post from one day ago. How’s there a bias when you read our report and decided that a drogue we don’t supply is better? Our video gives sailors impartial information so they can decide, as you have, which drag device is better for them. That said, speed reduction can be a potential danger with the series drogue since it can create too much drag leading to cockpit flooding (pooping). This warning was issued in the USCG report that tested the series drogue. Additionally, the series drogue requires specialized deck fittings, is very expensive because of its bulky design, and is unreliable as an emergency steering device since it slows the boat too much. As you point out, the series drogue is also difficult to handle. FYI, all seven of the storm drogue manufacturers in the comparison video claim you can steer through the wind and reduce vessel speed.

[@rhadash]

I noticed that seaya pulled their video advertisement after you posted your comments below. Guess the truth hurts. Keep up the good work.

[@rhadash]

I looked at the storm drogue comparison video and didn't see any of the bias claimed by Roddy Coleman in his post. The video showed straightforward and balanced testing of various storm drogues. Para-anchors were not tested or mentioned in this video

[@ParaAnchors]

Pooping has been the biggest safety concern with the series (stopping) drogues. Additionally, retrieval is very difficult with the stopping drogue as it has a lot of holding power and there are published reports of this device wrapping around the prop or rudder. Some sales people may omit this from their blog posts on forums. To learn more about stopping and speed-limiting drogues take a look at the Shark Drogue Technical Manual located on Fiorentino's website.

[@ParaAnchors]

In response to Klaus Beckmann (Wind-sonne-Segeln) post from one day ago. A USCG report produced by Donald Jordan states throughout the report how the sea anchor, drogue, and Jordan series drogue all tested the same as long as the devices used were properly sized. You write in reference to one of our videos “I find it always difficult to believe these kind of reports which are executed by someone who has commercial interests in selling one of the testing candidates…” In reality, Jordan had a commercial interest during the USCG test favoring his product and later selling his series drogue through Ace Sailmakers. Despite the kind of commercial tie you view as a bad thing, Jordan still admitted that a sea anchor, speed-limiting drogue, and series drogue can do the job if properly sized. We believe, as long as the testing process is easy to understand, all equipment is deployed with the same gear and test parameters, and a reasonable attempt is made to include all pertinent information, then test results have value. That’s the kind of impartial information we always try to provide to sailors.

[@davep.720]

In reality, Jordan had a commercial interest during the USCG test favoring his product and later selling his series drogue through Ace Sailmakers.... Wrong . Why say this stuff? Don Jordan Did all his research and consulting free of charge , "to help sailors" You have no idea what you are talking about, call me. re Spreading bad info... Dave [e-mail]

[@ParaAnchors]

@@davep.720 The US Coast Guard confirmed Fiorentino's accuracy regarding Donald Jordan and the 1987 report. Here's the report reviewed by the US Coast Guard: www.para-anchor.com/reports/yachting_world_drogue_article. Fiorentino is committed to providing accurate information. In the case of the JSD we did just that and our opinion was backed by the USCG. Someone from Fiorentino will call you.

[@homefront3162]

Ignore the naysayers, It is good to see a solid attempt at testing and comparison.

[@ParaAnchors]

There will always be some individuals who are negative or choose to push hidden agendas. Fortunately, all most all sailors prefer comradery and true freedom that sailing offers. Thanks again for your support.

[@easemailboxes]

I reckon home made rope and tyre fenders would work better than these and they are dual purpose and cheap to make.

[@ParaAnchors]

A tire properly weighted can be beneficial as a storm drogue. The trick is rigging it properly to avoid failure. Storage space is something to consider as well. Boat design can factor into using any storm drogue so practice is important. Thank you.