We Were Super Wrong About Mental Illness: The DSM's Origin Story

We reference the DSM pretty frequently on SciShow Psych, and for good reason: it’s considered the gold standard for professional mental health diagnosis in the United States, but it was an interesting journey to get there.
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Sources:
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/9781118625392.wbecp012
play.google.com/books/reader?id=AjFNAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&hl=en&pg=GBS.PA27
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC402979/?page=1
www.dimdi.de/static/en/klassi/icd-10-who/historie/icd-vorgaenger/icd-6/index.htm
psychcentral.com/blog/history-of-psychology-the-birth-and-demise-of-dementia-praecox/
www.researchgate.net/publication/5295166_Psychiatric_genetics_Progress_amid_controversy_Nature_Reviews_Genetics_9_527-540
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181586/
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10902952
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/1097-4679(200007)56:7%3C935::AID-JCLP11%3E3.0.CO;2-8
www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/21674086.1946.11925643?journalCode=upaq20
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1079301/
www.simonwessely.com/Downloads/Publications/Military/unlisted/Wessely_2006_Harry%20Farr.pdf
www.sparknotes.com/biography/freud/section7/
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0928425710000276
www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists/practice/dsm/history-of-the-dsm
www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zwg9kqt
tpcjournal.nbcc.org/the-removal-of-the-multiaxial-system-in-the-dsm-5-implications-and-practice-suggestions-for-counselors/
www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev-clinpsy-032814-112800
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4081715/
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Images:
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Battle_of_Brittany_-_Brest_02.jpg
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bomb_damage_in_Cherbourg,_France_after_its_liberation,_ca._June-July_1944._-_NARA_-_540061.tif
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sigmund_Freud_LIFE.jpg
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:DSM-5_%26_DSM-IV-TR.jpg
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dsm-5-released-big-changes-dsm5.jpg

[@SciShowPsych]

Correction: The American Medico-Psychological Association became the American Psychiatric Association, not the American Psychological Association, and it was the American Psychiatric Association that put together the DSM. Thanks to those who pointed that out!

[@somethingsomething404]

SciShow Psych I didn't even hear the mistake because I knew what you meant, but yeah most people probably wouldn't lol

[@emilylegel1093]

Thank you for owning up to the mistake. It shows your commitment to science education, and makes me respect the channel even more

[@TheXtremeDrums]

You really have to differentiate more clearly psychology and psychiatry, specially when talking about things like the dsm and psychopharmacology which are mainly part of the biomedical approach to mental disorders.

[@koalafromtomorrow5656]

DSM is bogus

[@koalafromtomorrow5656]

There is no emprei evidence

[@VictorKibalchich]

You've completely missed out how the DSM was developed as response to medical insurance companies wanting to know how to charge people. There's a reason that the DSM is only valid in the US, while everyone else uses the ICD.

[@famnfren]

Hi, thanks for ur point. Fyi, not everyone except US uses ICD. An example is Singapore.

[@allisond.46]

Are you serious?

[@Skye-ve6tc]

Tbh that doesn't surprise me, also, Canada uses the DSM-V as well.

[@Menddoxs]

@@famnfren can confirm, I am from Singapore, they do use the dsm-V I heard other countries use the dsm-V as well(like Australia and Canada) but ICD is still used by the majority of countries today

[@famnfren]

Singapore uses both DSM and ICD

[@pynkfreud]

The DSM, in addition to trying to understand and identify mental disorders, is based on a medical, not a psychological, model, and is a political document, as well. Hank refers mostly to psychologists, but it is written primarily by psychiatrists, MDs, and is a publication of the American Psychiatric Association, not the American Psychological Association, so calling it "the *psychiatry* bible" is accurate. And even though people do not usually fall into discrete categories of disorders, insurance companies won't cover a mental condition unless certain DSM diagnoses are used. It contains helpful information, but should not be thought of as "the gold standard." Unless gold stands for money. It presents good summaries of research, but a primary use is for justifying payment. Many of my colleagues use it solely for finding a reimbursable diagnosis and refer to other works for a more in-depth and multi-level understanding of the human condition. And The World Health Organization's reference publication, the International Classification of Diseases (ICD), is a more theoretically comprehensive, culturally informed, and helpful manual for diagnosis, which is why it is gaining prominence.

[@thofus]

That is, what I've tried to say all along this series. Thank you, sir :-)

[@JakeLovesSteak]

Jon Patrik someone in a comment section on the Internet who actually knows what he's talking about? Amazing!

[@ojiverdeconfleco]

++++++++++

[@psychclone]

Bingo.

[@Th0rodin]

Couldn't have put it any better! Although I wouldn't entirely agree on the ICD part....but then again I am not a doctor, but a nurse^^ So my perspective is quite different. I think the ICD has still a long way to go, but I do agree it's better than the DSM

[@juangaby]

This system has killed, cheated, stolen, mistakes should have consequences for anyone involved whether its a so called professional or not

[@stevekaylor5606]

Handing out disease-like Labels, neurotoxic drugs and then bestialization!

[@elsie3916]

Compared to other medical disciplines we are so horrifically far behind in understanding about, recovering, and caring for people with psychological illnesses.

[@stevekaylor5606]

If boys are distracted and girls are sad - have them sing in a chorus every day after school!

[@naomistarlight6178]

I thought you were going to talk more about the later 20th and early 21st century and detail, you know, all the ways that the DSM and the process of writing it is flawed, all the mistakes and controversies, there is so much more to this story.

[@farcenter]

Yep. But don't you know we reached the finish line? we know just when it's the brain, when it's biology, and when it's environmental.

[@ryanliberty]

Now if only we could get society's understanding of mental illness to catch up...

[@jacob2359]

Ryan Liberty / Mental Health Yeah, well that's going to be tough when we change the models of mental health so often. Especially now that we've complicated gender from sex to some elaborate spectrum with 72-1000 new options.

[@gordonlawrence4749]

At best I find that medical professionals are about 35 years behind the research. I have Asperger's and getting some of the idiot psychiatrists to understand that painkillers do not work because of a defective CYP 2d6 gene not expressing cytochrome p450 2D6 which is needed to turn the oral form of for example tramadol and codeine sulphate into the active forms is near impossible. I would not mind but there have been so many papers published on this in the last 20 years it's unreal. There have also been studies going back 50 years that found that this was happening but the exact mechanism was not understood.

[@SerDerpish]

Gordon Lawrence well, in all fairness, the odds that any practicing psychiatrist is up-to-date on biochemistry is almost zero, since that is forgotten pretty quickly after Step 1, which is taken (usually) between first and second year of medical school. Secondly, unless you have had genetic testing done to definitively show you have said mutation, the doctor is going to assume it isn’t a factor and go in order of cost so the insurance company doesn’t deny your prescription, or make you have to pay for something more expensive than you need if you have to pay it yourself, and moving to something more expensive or different after seeing the current medication is ineffective for you. Thirdly, if all else fails, nothing is keeping you from showing the psychiatrist a copy of one of the many papers written on the subject if you really think it is important for them to know about it. I guarantee you they will not look it up on their own because 1) they don’t have time to go search esoteric stuff like that (unless you genuinely piqued their curiosity) and 2) no doctor likes or is interested in biochemistry (unless they did their undergraduate degree in it). Understand the doctor is a person too with experiences and knowledge coming from them, and they sometimes forget things they read in books, especially if they have never seen it, is not relevant for their specialty, and there is no upcoming test they must take which demands they know it. As for the “behind the times” pattern you mentioned specifically, you have the current medical education system to thank for that. Doctors are not tested on or even taught anything too recent or uncorroborated by experimentation until after graduation, when they often have to relearn “facts” they were taught in medical school because recent literature which has not yet been incorporated into textbooks is now the new standard of care for whatever reason. Generally, the gap is about 10 years between the publishing of the findings and its incorporation into medical school curriculm, but it varies. 35 seems a but high, but it may seem that way when you are expecting a paychiatrist to remember something they forgot so long ago that they barely remember what a P450 even is, lol. So please, help psychiatrist treat you better by sharing your knowldge with them, and they should respond well to your proactive approach to your own care. Patient care is a collaborative effort, after all 👍🏽 If you stuck with me for all that, I appeciate it. Cheers 😊 EDIT: problems with writing walls of text on your phone include typos and poor grammar. Fixed them now 😑

[@mina0rahman]

@@SerDerpish thank you for that

[@allisond.46]

@@gordonlawrence4749 What does the painkiller thing have to do with Asperger's?

[@nowhereman4488]

This is scary because as a society we give so much credence to these people, and in my experience with psychiatrist and psychologists they really seem oblivious to this perception.

[@stevekaylor5606]

Freudian ideologues! In a similar vein, I ask people: Would you trust a Ph.D. in Economics to run your economy or 1000 of them?!

[@teambeining]

Hank, you have a talent in presenting this information. Entertaining and informative.

[@caratomaso3725]

I'm a grad student in clinical psychology, and I'm constantly impressed by the nuanced approach that SciShow Psych takes to psychology. Your research/writing team is fantastic. Thank you for all that you do!

[@bullsquid42]

Always makes me wonder what they'll say about our psychology ideas in a hundret years

[@gravijta936]

BDSM is far superior to the ordinary DSM!

[@Stilllife1999]

Gravijta disgusting

[@eclipseslayer98]

We all know that A, O, and Z-DSM are all superior to a mere "B" DSM.

[@janosk8392]

Would you kindly elucidate - b is for 'big' 'bad' 'better' 'beastly' 'beginners'......?

[@thekamakaji]

Janos K Google it

[@adityakochar3676]

It is Beginners. BDSM manual is used for students, a lot, and it available online too.

[@7lllll]

is freud discussed too much in psychology textbooks? if his theories are wrong enough to be cleansed of in dsm, they shouldn't be taught to high school students and freshmen in college. they should be exclusive to history of psychology

[@doctorwhoinfinite]

fair enough in my opinion, but it does serve as a good jumping off point since a lot of (far more) accurate theories do have Freud as an inspiration, and he did get the ball rolling so to speak. still, if i would cut down parts of the textbooks, Freud would certainly be a bit more of a target, even if it does give context to later work

[@custos3249]

Most texts don't mention him at all or do so out of contextualization for modern though, such as his hilarious ideas about psychosexual development contrasted to basic learning theory and attachment theory. The only concept of his that has much weight these days is the idea of the unconscious (not "subconscious") since we have some data that may validate it in the sense he intended, specifically the liminal nature of action potentials and the delay between neurologically making a decision and being consciously aware you've made that decision.

[@TehKirby04]

Much of what I learned of Freud in my schooling and training was done in a historical context. The reason we still here so much about him is because 1) he kind of put a start to the whole therapy movement and formal [applied] psychology, 2) his controversial theories sparked dissent and created different schools of thought in regard to theories of personality and therapy, and 3) his ideas about repression, neurosis, and childhood trauma are often credited as “somewhat correct” in terms of what we know about PTSD now. Honestly, with that last one, I think some just don’t want to say he was wholly incorrect on everything he ever said, but, I think some people get a little nostalgic about what they learned while in school when they teach it.

[@gordonlawrence4749]

Freud was taught to me as part of my degree along with Yeung and a few others. My course was unusual though in that it did not only teach the current position but who thought of what and when and how we got from there to here. This has been extremely useful in terms of evaluating research validity etcetera and was used to highlight the fact that you must not stop studying because in 20 years a good deal of what we "know" now may be thought to be wrong or indeed even be wrong.

[@j73991]

Main Street Boxer in my AP psych class he had more pages in the chapter on psychological theories than anyone else...

[@lazyperfectionist1]

Now, if we can just start making more dramatic progress in the fight against the _stigma_ surrounding people with psychological disorders.

[@watching99134]

"More dramatic progress"? Most recent efforts have arguably made things *worse* (saying people shouldn't be stigmatized because they have genetic-biological brain disorders which aren't their fault has been shown in some studies to *increase* stigma because they....have genetic-biological brain disorders).

[@andrewcrawford2977]

Nope. Freewill stands in between you and making others' thinking like yours. And you'll have to kill me, if you want to eliminate freewill from this planet; that's just by principle. Meanwhile, I'll patiently wait for the would-be movers-and-shakers of what "society thinks" to realize they're on the wrong side of history here. But I won't "make" you do that before you're ready.

[@astralcamisado648]

@@andrewcrawford2977 Noone's going to 'make you think like others' by force, but people's attitudes are generally not based on free will, they're based on automatic cognitive processes and biases it's unlikely you're going to be conscious of or have insight into. These processes are going to be influenced by factors outside of your knowledge or control. You might get taught to 'not believe everything you read' but that won't stop the media or other people from influencing your thoughts. People engage in confirmation bias all the time, and usually seek out people who believe what we do anyway. Though of course, you can be wilfully ignorant as wanting to maintain the status quo is fairly normal behaviour. Behaviour that limits your development as a person in many situations. Where 'change' represents 'threat' to people it's obvious they'd get defensive but that doesn't mean 'change' and 'threat' are the same thing. It's interesting you'd say 'you'd have to kill me'. It's almost as if new ideas or people disagreeing with you makes you feel persecuted in a way, which seems pretty contradictory to the idea that you believe in freedom of thought.

[@farcenter]

This is a comment that is seemingly impossible to disagree with, yet often harbors a ideological position that many would descent from. It's similar to the statement of "We need to empower the lower in middle class" It's like no s*** that is a good thing, however it's often left unsaid that The way through this would be fewer Marxist ideology and the subsequent lowering of the upper class. The use of stigma in this context could be talking about the generally universal good of ending our culture's tight-lipped inability to speak about mental health. Also, to advocate for the acceptance of all people no matter what conditions they have. However, oftentimes when stigma is used in this way within psychology today, what is actually being spoken about Is the abolishment of the use of disease categories like schizophrenia, many arguing that It doesn't actually exist, And that the trauma of the diagnosis itself is often more deleterious to one's mental health than the underlying symptoms. This is really dangerous and it's gaining a large amount of steam. Look up the continuum model of psychosis, It's becoming mainstream, yet has really no empirical evidence to support it, and on the contrary much that disconfirms it. If anyone actually reads this and wants some papers from both sides hit me up

[@stevekaylor5606]

@@astralcamisado648 If an outsider like the actor Michael Landon were in charge of Mental Health - he would simply encourage dedication and Talent Training. Today, this is the Empathic Training of Howard Glasser and the Emphatic Therapy of Peter Breggin!

[@thofus]

Thank you for the "... in the US".

[@watching99134]

The DSM is also used in other countries as a result of American cultural influence for better or worse, along with the ICD.

[@hufflebuffben]

We still have a LOT to learn. With only a few hundred years of study, defining, diagnosing, and treating mental illness still really new. We've grazed the surface.

[@levoGAMES]

It's not until the last (very) few decades that we have a deeper understanding and public awareness about mental illnesses. And we're still learning a lot. Be born 30 years earlier and you might have gotten locked up into any asylum whereas now you'll receive professional treatment or ease of symptoms.

[@Samrules888]

yeah, now we just let crazies roam the street because it would be "uncool" to lock them up.

[@mid1429]

What I have I wold just be lazy and all that I dont know if I wold have been locked up

[@guardsmanom134]

I was locked up. For having been diagnosed *WHILE* under the influence of mind altering chemicals prescribed by a "psychiatrist". Twenty years later, I have no outward symptoms of the diagnosis, and inwardly, my body has replaced the liver which was destroyed by pharmaceutical chemicals. I used to not be able to get drunk. Now, one beer is enough. I was days from liver failure, all because a "doctor" said that I couldn't possibly function in society without venlifaxine HCI (Effexor XR). I don't take a single pill, today. I've been clean since I was 21, and actually stopped having auditory hallucinations seven years ago. I had had auditory hallucinations since I was 5, a year after the first medical trials. It was just a whisper of my name, nothing else. But it caused doctors to diagnose me with schizo-effective bipolar disorder. I don't think that there's a worse misdiagnosis. The stigma that follows, is worse than if I went to a trump rally with a Hillary t-shirt on. Everyone fakes a smile. Everyone talks in hushed tones when they think you're not paying attention. Newsflash: I am a genius with a flighty attention span. I see and hear EVERYTHING. That's my curse. And I watched as doctors killed a teenager, in the next room where they had locked me up. I watched as a nurse(who obviously had no business around prescription drugs) mixed up dosages and medical charts, as she passed out the poison Skittles. Honestly, in my inebriated state, I could have doled out the "medication" more precisely and more carefully. And that is precisely why I believe that psychiatry is just a racket, where it's legal to knowingly poison people who just want someone to help them. If it was up to me, you couldn't prescribe a drug until you had self tested it for six months. Meaning, if you hadn't experienced the effects of the medication you are prescribing, you could face SERIOUS penalties for prescription to a patient. That would fix the problem. No more easy guinea pigs, no more psychiatrists poisoning the population.

[@nategalvan3907]

We know less than we think. These "doctors" are perpetuatingg this mental health crisis through psuedo science and improper treatment.

[@DR---]

Nowadays they just give people drugs that make the problems worse.

[@TheKgal89]

Hank is actually wearing a John Green pin/badge! Lol, that's adorable and awesome :D

[@MarieHolestad]

As a person who just recently got the diagnosis complex trauma ptsd, this is really interesting to me. Thanks for the brain food, Hank.😀👍

[@annanicholson5309]

Complex trauma ptsd.. never heard of that one.

[@allisond.46]

Are you okay?

[@sofitocyn100]

Man the whole Internet gets diagnosed with PTSD these days

[@Skoopyghost]

I have a ASD diagnosis. It's a mild PDD-NOS. It's life ruining. I am barred from 99.9 of jobs. I am not mentally ill. I describe myself as a eccentric stoic. It's all shrödinger cat. None of mental disorders are even testable using science.

[@ttaaddoo111]

This, I think, is probably your best video yet :D

[@cluckeryduckery261]

Ahhh I feel old. When i was studying psychology in college we were still using the DSM IV-TR

[@onlyrick]

Don't feel too bad - geologists are still studying ROCKS!

[@bingkurger4673]

Oh thank god that people are finally figuring out Freud was bonkers. Warms my heart cockles to see it here.

[@MissyM68]

Freud was also a cocaine addict and had a large part of his jaw removed from smoking cigars (16 surgeries and he never quit).

[@makeupbyushna3085]

What I learnt from DSM history is that our current ideas of mental illness might be wrong too. DSM is designed to be changing as our understanding increases. There is still a lot of science needed. And one problem with DSM is that I think it is too focused on the American culture.

[@Raiden-the-Goat32]

Mental disorders are defined by social norm's so that is to be expected.

[@EBR1]

You're not kidding when you say that's there's still a lot of science needed. Psychiatry has very little science at all to back up its claims.

[@michelej9496]

Outstanding. Thanks.

[@Xaero9019]

There are still psychoanalytic influences in the DSM 5 like the personality disorders and how they are categorized based on Kernberg’s ideas. I get you aren’t for psychodynamics but it would of been cool to hear a side note on how Freud’s influence is still in the DSM in some ways like the personality disorders section.

[@angeleyes7401]

Who gave Freud the baton? Freud was involved in witchcraft and the occult.

[@Bennick323]

I actually saw an article recently where they traced certain symptoms of PTSD to actual brain lesions caused by physical blasts from explosives, which are actually operable. So... partial credit... maybe? I need to find the article...

[@liawatson5789]

BennickGAdeus please find it.

[@jumpyspiderlady8454]

A friend of mine got PTSD from a house fire. He wasn’t damaged physically, but he did have to save his two little sisters.

[@Bennick323]

Lucky Kitty www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/06/09/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-linked-to-shockwaves-from-bomb-bl/

[@ttaaddoo111]

BennickGAdeus But, dude. That is a regular news-site; they aren't the most reliable and accurate, when it comes to faithfully covering topics of science...

[@Bennick323]

Hey, that's fair. I brought it up because It seemed legit. I will fully admit that I am a game programmer, not a researcher of any kind. I got it from a friend who comes a little closer to that title. If it's not true, that's fine. This is definitely not a hill I need to die on. It would be nice if we could find such a connection though, something that's more physically treatable, perhaps.

[@abdobedo9428]

Hank, you're always welcome !

[@NewMessage]

"Sometimes a cigar, is just a penis. I mean a penis. CIGAR!.... Oh, dammit." - Sigmund Freud, 1927 -

[@onlyrick]

Don't send him out for cigars!

[@OtseisRagnarok]

"Not everything freud said was right" bracing for the neo-freudians in the audience to flip out.

[@Trekki200]

Onar isn't it more like : everything Freud said was wrong?

[@OtseisRagnarok]

Only if you're not a freudian.

[@barbarahouk1983]

Too many could not really understand German. Many who translated were oh so wrong in what he meant often. I got tired of the mistranslations.

[@barbarahouk1983]

Not everything he observed was wrong. But if one understood he understood things through the philosophy of Kant and Hegel, one could understand his views. An important observation is humans have stages of development. He attempted to relate these stages to what occupies humans from about 9 yo to 40 yo. These are the reproductive years. And the common person often is fixated on this. In Freud’s early life life expectancy was 50 yrs. Aperson 60 yo was OLD and Benjamin Franklin was ancient. This has changed bc of capitalism’s incredible wealth around the world has increased life expectancy across the world for so many. More of the population are planning life after the reproductive years. Piget , Fromm, Miller also characterized life stages. Bertram White videoed mothers raising children from newborn to 6 yo. This showed actual changes. Much has been learned. Not all of what Freud had to say was wrong but one must read carefully (that means no learning German by translation only bc that method is in correct in understanding, one must understand the philosophies under which Freud lived bc that guided his behaviors and thoughts). I have enjoyed my studies and yes I am fluent in German.

[@custos3249]

Indeed. There's a reason why English and (worse) philosophy departments can't stop sucking that cigar while modern psychology mentions him only for historical context towards how far we've come.

[@gingerredshoes]

You left out the part about how current diagnoses are all dictated by what medical insurance companies will cover and what pharmaceutical companies have a pill to treat.

[@pegasusted2504]

Interesting as always, but I wondered where you had escaped to Hank, missed you in Space and others :~)

[@k1tkat-kate]

I actually learned this in a WWII history course in uni! Well, the the part about the diagnosis of PTSD and a little bit of the origin of the DSM. man that prof was amazing....

[@earthrocker4247]

Good vid Hank, cheers. As someone who has suffered with depression/anxiety & was diagnosed (im in my 40's) last year with ASD; I'm still learning and navigating my own psychological map.

[@sutapagoswami116]

Hey! How are you doing now? I hope things are going well for you.

[@Prin7er]

So, a new haircut. So fresh it stands out Hank.

[@elanianiyvwia8687]

Thank you for posting this. As a person with mental illness anything that helps clear up the social stigma is good!! I have mdd (major depressive disorder) Although there is no absolute defined specific cause for it I do believe mine was cause from my abusive violent childhood!! Please if you or someone you know suffers from a mental illness please seek the help of a qualified mental health professional!!!

[@psychclone]

No need to feel any stigma. Depression is very common and nothing to be ashamed of. And you're right, seek help; effective treatments are available.

[@darktwistedlady]

Elani Aniyvwia If you had a traumatic childhood you probably have Complex-Trauma PTSD. That certainly explains the depressions. Another common combo is C-T PTSD and ADHD (or executive function and motivational disorder), often with some form of anxiety and major depression.

[@makeupbyushna3085]

Dark Twisted Lady please avoid diagnosing people

[@katiekane5247]

Elani Aniyvwia , I have been treated for decades for depression & lots of folks have made big $$$ off of me, including big pharma. Now 60, what I really needed 50 years ago, was someone to let me talk about the abusive alcoholics that raised me & then tell me; this is not your fault & you don't deserve this abuse. I'm off antidepressants finally & trying to right the wrongs. Much love sister!

[@allisond.46]

@@psychclone You're not wrong, but that's not how stigma works.

[@thatcatdraws7658]

I love videos like this more history of science plz 💙

[@freewilliam93]

The inability to think trauma could come from horrible events tells you everything about why so many people are crazy....

[@Skoopyghost]

I like philosophy. Mental illness is philosophy, not science. It can never be science because it doesn't have real mathetics.

[@Kaylad8528]

In my PSY101 class last semester, I learned about the history of American psychologists using hypnosis to treat traumas, but also about how it 95% backfired into psychologists accidentally implanting memories of traumas. I also learned a little bit about how insurance companies backed WAY THE HECK away from anything that had to do with trauma treatment because of this problem. Is this part of why health insurance doesn't really cover mental healthcare today? How do we correct it?

[@watching99134]

That's grossly exaggerated; there were a small number of psychologists (mainly in California iirc) who were suggesting childhood abuse to their clients back in the 1990s, but the whole thing was blown out of proportion by a coalition of people/groups who wanted to protect certain institutions (Catholic Church, Boy Scouts, etc. etc.) Insurance companies try to get out of paying anything if you haven't noticed. (The studies that purport to show memories can be created are substantively different from those of a therapy encounter; they involve the use of family members as confederates and false props [doctored photographs, etc.]).

[@marim0y]

Thanks

[@fransinclair3356]

the more i read it the more I think it is a crock. You can read it and think oh wow i have that and that. My old psychologist said when she did her studies she thought oh i think i have all these disorders too as everyone in the world has most of the symptoms.

[@InfectionFever]

I'm glad that they decided to change the manual and the illness's names. Great decision on their hand.

[@MissyM68]

The DSM5 still needs a major overhaul. By the time a new version is released it is already out of date.

[@Rakscha-Sun]

Psychiatry and Psychology have not gotten better but more destructive. The number of people who are deemed mentally ill is rising instead of falling the more research on the concept is done. This is a sure fire way to be sure that this is not science or medicine (what illness get less easy to treat the more research we do?!?) but a lethal chase on those that are genetically different.

[@sr.mental5876]

@@lamdafinity Psychiatrists are drug dealers.

[@chrrmin1979]

That enterprise comercial was gold

[@malikathueler2529]

We need the rest of the story !!!

[@PennyDreadful1]

Some of the DSM is more like a taxonomy of extreme human character types of which we are all on a spectrum on and theories of their possible genesis.

[@watching99134]

The current DSM doesn't address etiology whatsoever.

[@kcain64]

Nice haircut Hank. It looks good on you.

[@dennisplayinglacrosse]

It's actually pretty interesting to think about what other scientific ideas we think are correct now will be disproven or modified because of future discoveries/morals. As time changes, we do too, and our ideas will probably never reach a state of being completely 100% correct or accepted by everyone. But that's what also makes life interesting, because it would be very boring to already know everything there is to know in the world and not do anything.

[@tempusnostrumest]

The problem is that psychiatry can messes with people lives, so when they lock people into psych wards mistreat them while drug them up, do lobotomies like they did before or even give dangerous unnecessary drugs to their patients, isn't just considered a "scientific mistake" that can just be replaced after, in fact, it's called a CRIME with long term effects.

[@thstroyur]

Having understood the angle here, I'll just say: psychology is still mere applied neurology, we just haven't gotten there yet ;)

[@williandalsoto806]

I'm often somewhat scared to watch videos in this channel, thinking it may be triggering but i was wrong. This is very good and I'll watch more often.

[@williandalsoto806]

Ben Schofield Ok

[@williandalsoto806]

Main Street Boxer thanks?

[@williandalsoto806]

Main Street Boxer Thanks for real then. I find them annoying rather than triggering.

[@billyosullivan4514]

@@williandalsoto806 How do you deal with life if you find everything triggering?

[@christophermcewan-np1qs]

With the millions of books that are written, can you imagine how many voices are created?

[@mulatdood]

When Hank said "...they went looking for some help understanding what was happening to people." I knew things were going to get better. Maybe uncertainty is good and certainty is evil. Or is it just that I knew they were misguided in the first place so I knew uncertainty was the right direction?

[@cajagato]

Could you do a SciShow Pysch on the history of considerations of combat disorders? They've been noticed since there have been wars, right? Haven't there been different names for the same thing? Shell Shock, Battle Fatigue?

[@watching99134]

American Civil War = "Soldier's Heart"

[@mattiewho]

Great video as always! I was thinking, I know you've already done an episode on "Sybil" (Shirley Mason) focused on DID. I've been very interested in this story since I first saw the movie in high school. Then I read the book when I was 19 or so. Most recently I read a book focused on the relationship between Shirley and her therapist. The dynamic of that and how it could of been enhanced or unintentionally fabricated by a codependency they developed. I would be really interested in a video on something like that, this case specifically or even just a power dynamic between patient/dr thing, maybe touching on implanted memories or something... just a thought keep up the good work and thank you all! Sybil Exposed by Debbie Nathan is the book I was referring to btw.

[@a-goblin]

freud roast by hank. god, i love scishow

[@nerysghemor5781]

Interestingly enough the more we learn about traumatic brain injury, and the fact that simply being hit by the compression wave of a blast can had the brain, we are now finding that in ADDITION to PTSD, there can ALSO be neurological problems that are indeed physical in nature and caused by artillery, IEDs, etc. So in that case both were right!

[@joebrewer4529]

Yes exactly I've been trying to explain that to people for years. Being someone who is in a go-kart wreck at 8 years old and then had 30 plus years of really f***** up symptoms they got worse as I got older. Pretty much lost my entire adult life. Because after what I went through and understanding how easy it is to acquire brain damage. Yeah the whole magnitude of a missile or bomb grenade whatever something of that magnitude going off near a person would send off damaging energy that would penetrate your skull case. And the whole thing's so transparent to the person who this is happened to they have no idea that once they go into the actual painful symptoms that end up making you crazy. Once you reach that point you're mentally insane and so you're not going to sit there and tell the people around you that you have a problem that after you slip into Insanity you'd never be able to describe that to anyone to begin with. So if you're not lucky your life can go to s*** very quickly and never recover.

[@randomoverpopulatedworldid3286]

Thank you for this video. They need to add Complex PTSD/Trauma to the diagnostic list. Not everyone qualifies for PTSD but a TON of diagnosis arise from trauma's throughout our lives that add up and cause other symptoms.... usually lifelong.

[@projectbirdfeederman5491]

This society doesn't want to acknowledge abuse and prefers to cover it up and gaslight the survivor.

[@barbarahouk1983]

DSM5 also needs rewriting too. They still leave out the importance of CHOICE in development. I am a retired Psychiatrist and I say the model of Nature vs Nurture (genetics & environmental influences is DSM5’s terminology) works up to 21 weeks of gestation only. After that it is intertwining of the 3: genetics, environmental influences and the individual’s choices. Until Psychiatry/Psychology acknowledges that we will continue to stumble miserably.

[@Willow4526]

Barbara Houk do you account for weightings of the 3? As in how much each individually affects development?

[@celinak5062]

Barbara Houk habits 60% genes ? epigenetics

[@custos3249]

......which is why the biopsychosocial model is taught in psych 101 courses. We threw out the moronic "nature vs nurture" argument decades ago.

[@TheLastScoot]

But choices are determined by genetics/environment, albeit in an extremely complicated manner.

[@shanestrickland5006]

Did you study into how nutrition and external factor's culture and so on decide's how a person chooses ? As in every choice a person make's is caused by factor's that person does not have control over. Hell a person can do what they want but not choose what they want. So a person's choice is not realy their choice.

[@fsihfhsifihsfshifhis]

can you guys sell the "wrong about things" shirt in your shop? I need it for a uhhh thing

[@issolomissolom3589]

I love you hanks

[@sisyphyus]

The DSM is really helpful, but when the book contains only faults it can only see people as faulted or disordered. There is no "baseline" or "normal" in the manual so I guess the question would be how do you know if anyone is ever "cured"?

[@sweeneyrob]

Never say, 'now we know...' about anything in psychology. What we 'know' changes with every generation.

[@sapphirII]

I noticed my mother has the DSM4 manual. I guess it comes from when she worked as a psychotherapist.

[@onlyrick]

"The study of psychology is at the same place surgery was when it was being performed in barber shops." - probably Churchill or somebody.

[@FoamKittyGamer]

"Reactions to social factors or the environment" yes, somewhat... however the social and environmental factors can influence them... mind you, there's not always that explanation to mental illness, but it's interesting to point that out. The severity of it seems to depend on outside factors.

[@bigboy7927]

The APA still gets a lot of things wrong

[@amermeleitor]

CIE vs DSM, the ultimate battle!

[@druanddevarnold896]

i REALLY want to watch you're vids

[@worri3db3ar]

Mmmm now that DSM history been talked about now curious about the ICD one?

[@empathylessons2267]

Deviant, Dysfunctional & Distressing works for my usage.

[@ThcPatient]

Took me awhile before I figured out SciShow wasn't retracting something they said about mental illness. Rather, "We were super wrong about mental illness" is referring to humanity in general.

[@bw1247]

Is the camera angle usually that low? I'm a tall guy. Makes me feel like Hank is over 7ft at eye level with his chest.

[@michellewolf3153]

Trauma will mess you up. I know I am...

[@watching99134]

Depends what you mean by trauma, most people survive life-threatening events without disabling sequelae (it may be the added component of not being able to discharge the event which results in what we call PTSD).

[@CommanderLVJ1]

From Star Trek TNG:”Kill shem…kill Shem all…” one of the most humorous and disturbing things I have ever witnessed!..;D

[@RiveraFilmsPR]

As a psychologist in training, I have to say: I love that there is a psych show to educate people on misunderstood topics. You guys do your research well. But I would like to add that after watching a couple of videos from this channel, I see a tendency that the hosts constantly state how psychology was SO wrong in the past. And I get it, they are historical facts. But after hearing it so many times, it sort of gives the viewer the impression that they might be trying to minimize this field of study because of it's past mistakes. I just wanted to point that out for your future works. Other than that, I do enjoy your content.

[@cosmosofinfinity]

Missed opportunity to call the channel Psych Show

[@farcenter]

Psychology history based on what sounded good in the moment. Now psychology is based on empirical evidence taken from a collection of theories which themselves are only based on "what sounds good"

[@rhodeislandstreetpreaching4252]

I don’t know this doesn’t have enough likes

[@nattupper6585]

Freud was definitely wrong about, yeah, most things. But I think that he was right about the trauma bit. Trauma really does have lasting (but treatable) effects. I experienced that as well and have a lot of problems because of it. And from what I've learned in life, you can't just stuff EVERYTHING people who are mostly wrong said about stuff under the rug if there's still something to be learned. Take ideas from everyone and think about the ideas presented. Use your sense of logic and reasoning to determine if something is likely right or wrong and come to your own conclusions.

[@watching99134]

But Freud said that people's traumatic stress reactions were not the result of childhood sexual abuse, but their fantasy of *wanting* to be abused (Oedipal/Elektra Complexes). Neat way of keeping his clients while continuing to get their parents to pay his fees.

[@thechaoticphoenixx8963]

*Freud and his unconscious mind theorys:* Cant prove it wrong if you cant prove it right either :))))

[@paavobergmann4920]

That´s why it is, technically speaking, not a valid scientific theory.

[@thechaoticphoenixx8963]

I know that. I have to study some of his theories for psychology class. He makes it interesting that's for sure.

[@thechaoticphoenixx8963]

The most interesting one was when he explained a child was afraid of horses because it reminded him of his dad,who he was unconsciously afraid might castrate him for being sexually attracted to his mother. Some weird weird stuff

[@Myk3916]

Should do a video going back to bedlam ...and ww2 eugenics... And Pavlov

[@morganz.653]

THEY FINALLY MADE IT

[@BReal2023]

You forgot to mention how i the people who write and produce the DSM are indirectly or directly financially backed by the people who produced the medications to treat the diagnosis, forever widening the breadth and scope the ability to treat you forever growing amount of diagnosis.

[@hoguesteele]

There's good evidence that the physical effect of exploding artillery near a human body does cause lasting physiological damage. Changes to hormone production/regulation is all I can remember right now, but new hormone replacement therapies have been very successful at treating soldiers PTSD by reversing some of the problems caused by "shell shock". Doctors were onto something back then.

[@sum_dood_]

"A diagnosis isn't a cure, it's an excuse to take away a citizens agency." - Sum Dood

[@aellalee4767]

DSM is still more based off of what sounds good than what's scientific. And you can't get grants without saying what DSM disorder you want to do a study on. Do a video on the RDoC.

[@watching99134]

As you point out, the NIMH no longer uses the DSM but RDOCs.

[@TheJwebb7]

Even the environmental factor inducing a mental illness might cause changes in microscopic brain architecture, especially at an age when neural pruning is high during brain development.

[@ZAIENAFIT]

thank you for this although its true DSM was for medical insurance purposes with alot of empirical evidence being nullified except DSM3

[@Guys_Love_Each_Other]

00:03 Early psychologists had a limited view of mental illness 00:54 Historical lack of standardized definitions for mental illness 01:43 The DSM's original approach to mental illness was narrow 02:33 Impact of World War II on understanding mental illness 03:17 Psychologists realized shell shock might be a mental illness post-WWII 04:05 The DSM's origin story is intertwined with Sigmund Freud's theories. 04:50 Early DSM influenced by trauma and combat stress 05:36 DSM 5 focuses on describing and categorizing symptoms.

[@captainzork6109]

So everyone seems to rely on DSM-V nowadays. But did everyone also rely on DSM-I when it came out? How quickly did it become the psychiatry bible?

[@sebastianelytron8450]

Where's that Sigmund FRAUD guy when you need him?

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

Actually, Freud has been very successful. Not in psychology, though. His greatest success was actually inspiring the creation of modern public relations (PR), thanks to his nephew Edward Bernays (google him). I don't get the Freud hate, personally. He may have been wrong, but at least he wasn't malicious. That nephew of his, though...let's just say I wish he was more well known (and not because I admire him).

[@hauntedshadowslegacy2826]

The problem with Freud has nothing to do with intent. There are people *to this day* who still believe Freud's theories. Some of them now practice as 'holistic psychologists'. (Not all holistic psychologists are Freudians, but I'd rather not take my chances.) At least his most widespread mark is overall harmless if not annoying: The Meyers Briggs Personality Test.

[@gordonlawrence4749]

There is a Hanlon's razor which states "never attribute to malice what can be adequately attributed to stupidity". I believe there should be a slight modification for Freud as he was not an idiot: "Never attribute to malice what can adequately be attributed to being more crazy than a box of frogs".

[@decepticonne]

Freud's banana bonkers theories still hinder people's path toward better mental health to this day... the hate is perfectly understandable imo

[@nataliarodriguez3740]

Sebastian Elytron Can someone actually point out what was he wrong about, with like, some sort of evidence?

[@SneakySteevy]

Oh we were so very wrong that it helped countless people. If you think perfection exist than good luckto be happy.

[@1mc568]

It was Called Shell Shock, Battle Fatigue, Operational Exhaustion, Then lastly PTSD. The softening of the language has robbed all Feeling from the Actual Condition.

[@watching99134]

So what do you think it should be called? It applies to a lot of people who have never been near a warzone.

[@1mc568]

@@watching99134 distinct conditions should have distinct different names.

[@sr.mental5876]

It should be under an array of disorders labelled “Trauma based,” but in a different subcategory than simple PTSD.

[@AwesomePossum1987]

yes! thank you scishow! Sigmund Freud got most of his theories wrong. God damn, i've been in a lot of discussons with students about his standard about ego consciousness.

[@thenormalizer532]

"You have the DSM?" " We got it sir" "Good, that's one less loose ends"

[@williamoldaker5348]

I have Aspergers syndrome and that was removed from the autistic spectrum, where does this leave me???

[@ayuxx10]

From what I understand, Asperger's was removed as a separate diagnosis, and an autism *spectrum* was created. What was previously labeled as Asperger's syndrome was found to be high-functioning autism after more research on it had been done.

[@brebeeb]

is that an Olan Rogers pin?!?!

[@tranquilanimaljamlover66]

1:02 😂😂

[@jacfalcon]

Freud got a fair amount of stuff wrong but not "almost everything"

[@neymarsenna787]

Freud has only gotten better with time

[@Just-A-Guy-TV]

Everyone has everything in that damned book.

[@elaineandjohn9599]

See George Carlin’s bit on soft language or euphemisms on the development from shell shock to ptsd.