We Were Wrong About Molag Bal... - Elder Scrolls Lore

[@tomsimpkins1211]

"With these ingredients, Molag Bal had reached mustache twirling levels of dastardliness."-Drewmora 2023

[@DavetheNord]

hahahahaa

[@elfofcourage]

🤣🤣🤣

[@Pyrodorah]

Honestly couldn't have put it better myself.

[@Bullminator]

Was one of those ingredients by a chance a powedered deer penis?

[@weebobo955]

😂

[@Aaron-xo7px]

I like drew being a character in these videos, just a wondering traveler. Needs to be an encounter mod for Skyrim. Some guy in the library at winterhold or something

[@connivingkhajiit]

That would be amazing especially if he voiced it

[@Illitha]

I really need to learn how to male npcs. Having a custom dremora chilling in winterhold that tells of his travels through the oblivion realms seems hard tho

[@peanutbutter6720]

Ooh. Something like the storyteller mod for fallout 4. That’d be cool

[@badluck5647]

I prefer the Prince's name from the last Kalpa: Lygma Bals

[@mmyr8ado.360]

Lyg-ma Bal

[@ArcaneTuber]

@@mmyr8ado.360 That name seems like "Lamae Bal" (the first vampire, in the Elder Scrolls lore)

[@kittensareawesome2789]

@@ArcaneTuber Entirely possible he IS that same first vampire, history tends to muddle things.

[@ChiefderWahrheit]

I am more of a Molag Ballin' man myself

[@brunofeitosafl]

OMG there must be a mod for that

[@Liberater4589]

I would disagree with your main conclusion, I think Bal does care about mortals, a lot, he just doesn’t “care” in the way a mother cares, he is deeply invested in the suffering and subjugation of mortals (all beings to be fair but mortals seemingly in particular), if he didn’t care then why would have things like torture Quotas or like in the oblivion quest the corruption of upstanding people if he didn’t care about mortals or think of them as more than objects, I think he refers to them as objects and uses dehumanizing language deliberately as a means to belittle and degrade mortals not as a true reflection of his thoughts on mortals

[@DrewmoraYT]

This was the major dilemma for me that sparked the video. In a way I like the bully aspect. But if you humour the possibility that Coldharbour is Bal's attempt to hold on to his crowning glory, Lyg, rather than a deep longing to be part of Creation, and that mortals aren't valuable beyond being dispensable worker ants to this arrogant god, then my conclusion gives us some potential for discussing Bal's motivation, rather than him just being written off as a jealous cliche bully. But you could be right! And that's the fun

[@SobeCrunkMonster]

i think you’re being the “semantics police” on this one, and you spelled “Liberator” in your screen name wrong lol

[@mike-0451]

@@DrewmoraYTAll beings desire to become with the original source of their being. For molag Baal, he understands that source to be a fecund chaos mediated by power (or pure “vantage”, overcoming, triumph, “domination”), which means that he must of course worship rape and murder and corruption, rather than restoration and beauty, which according all metaphysical thought (pagan thought, of course, too) is an impossibility. One absorbed in this narrative of power, violence, and exile (remember he desires to be “part” of that original source, which is already power) one can see beauty, of course, but one can never see beauty AS the source, as the origin of all being. You’re absolutely right about the “autochthonic” pathos that pervades the thinking of the gods, but if gods are simply powerful beings, or even if they are “forces”, they are still beings, and in some strange cosmological sense also desire to be enfolded back into the source of their being, which is either absolute identity (the One, Brahman) or absolutely contradiction (Chaos)-both are the truths of each other and are convertible. Both are always absolutely other than the set of all beings, the “not” of all things. In either case, contradiction and the reverberation of identity, or identity and the reverberation of contradiction ring in the most pristine key in both, with the ultimate truth of both being the simple fact of contradiction: the only truth is that there is no truth, the “ground” of beings and stable representation is ultimately a rabid sea of alterity, coincidences of identity in singularities of accidental order, but always accidental, and always the excretions of a writhing, chaotic spring. For molag bal, the answer to nihilism is will to power. That means rape worship, since rape is, after all, a valid expression of the will to power, of desire and nisus. There is no good and evil, only force, only power. Azura is actually more similar to Bal than nah other daedra, since both have recognized the innner truth of being: back and forth, in and out, order and chaos. Where Bal takes on a distinctly Nietzschean key in his cosmological wailing, Azura is more of a pagan, or perhaps a more naive Deleuzean who has lapsed into myth once again (only it is a myth of pseudo-innocence, which has forgotten that even her “dusk and dawn” is also a violent gesture, where one erases the other to have their existence. The sun kills the moon for day, the moon kills the sun for night: they are erased). The elder scrolls universe cannot conceive of true transcendence for precisely this reason. More on this if you wish, but suffice it to say that the elder scrolls is a truly pagan cosmos, truly total, circular, Ouroborosian. It is entirely tragic.

[@badluck5647]

While Molag Bal doesn't treat his subordinate daedra well, his level of sadism towards morals is on a whole other level. His singular focus on possessing and corrupting morals suggests he either see great value in morals or he has special hatred for them. Hate and love are more closely linked than disinterest.

[@badluck5647]

​​​​@@DrewmoraYT I was hoping the writers would give a reason for his jealousy and cruelty towards morals beyond simple sadism. Based on his brief relationship with Vivec and past relationship with a wife, there is something more human about his motivations than initially suggested. Maybe Molag Bal' jealousy is similar to Hircine's jealousy of Y'ffre.

[@Liberater4589]

The sload, dreughs, the constant use of blue, cold-harbor, molag bal has a lot connections to the sea, even his constant theme of cold and darkness could be interpreted as the deep sea, considering there is no ocean centric deity in any of the pantheons I wonder if there’s any connection between that and molag’s close relation to the sea

[@oghaze9318]

Another interesting thing about the color theme is that his name is Stonefire (think of brimstone as an imagery of the Christian depiction of Hell). I think blue is used to depict his realm because it's a theme associated with blue fire, but it can also be a theme associated with cold weather because maybe because Coldharbour was made to subdue his fire (perhaps by Kyne, Meridia and other Magna Ge ?). By constantly being subdued by Ice he retains the will to always dominate with his Fire (ironically)

[@leonardomarquesbellini]

There's no singular ocean deity in main pantheons because the ocean is the essence of oblivion and a keeper of memory, in particular. Closest representative would be old Herma Mora.

[@EricIsntSmart]

I think there's no oceanic diety because in the mythology of the elder scrolls the ocean doesn't really seem to be treated as a place, oddly enough The sea is where ships go to die, it's what swallows continents and captains

[@chemputer]

I *really, really* want a Sload video, more than I care to admit. They seem fascinating but underutilized by Bethesda.

[@editorrbr2107]

Strongly agree. It’s hard to take wholly Thalmor seriously as ultimate villains in a world where the Sload existed.

[@rejvaik00]

@@editorrbr2107 I think it's because the sload are on the virge of extinction

[@crandleberrysadie]

A Drewmora video to start 2023. Awesome. Happy New Year, Drew! 🎉🎊

[@popguy2815]

There's a major contradiction here. If Bal sees everyone as sheep or insects or whatever then what does he get from dominating them? One might herd/breed/hunt them as needed but no one "dominates" them. And remember what Serana says about becoming a vamp. That clearly showed seeing individuals that have worth.

[@turdfurg765]

He does it to spite the Gods by dominating their chess board

[@mmyr8ado.360]

It's kinda like Nirn is being interacted differently depending who's playing. The mortal races might play it straight like an MMO, the Aedra might go for admin and civ sim and the Daedra might do their own thing and somehow it works out for all in the Aurbis. Molag Bal might be the one that shows off to prove his dominance by approaching his interactions with Nirn differently like being in an empire building sim in Lyg, civ sim through vampirism, dating sim because of that one time, and gacha for the main ES titles.

[@OrgusDin]

@@mmyr8ado.360 I would caution you against underestimating the intensity of the lovemaking by brushing off Vivec as "that one time." I'm pretty sure being outside of time because you're a god makes it only being one time irrelevant anyway. Vivec probably rocked his world with they/them godhood.

[@badluck5647]

While Molag Bal doesn't treat his subordinate daedra well, his level of sadism towards morals is on a whole other level. His singular focus on possessing and corrupting morals suggests he either see great value in morals or he has special hatred for them. Hate and love are more closely linked than disinterest. I think there is an untold orgin story out there to explain his hatred towards morals. Maybe it has something to do with his unknown wife that mentioned was in Khajiit myth.

[@mmyr8ado.360]

@@OrgusDin I understand, but I have said such to humor those who know about the event and its aftermath and invite interest to those who wonder. I also advise to tread carefully when discussing the different aspects of Vehk. The male aspect is ever-present most of his days, and the female aspect is beyond the present Kalpa. For they I will call them for they wear the secret word CHIM.

[@badluck5647]

People often misunderstand Molag Bal as the embodiment of corruption and domination when Bal's motives are actually much more individualistic. For example, Bal wouldn't be a supporter of Dunmer slavery, because he isn't the top of the hierarchy. He doesn't support slavery for the sake of slavery. Bal wants to be the one that dominates, and the Dunmer and their slaves aren't taking orders from the Daedric Prince. Molog Bal doesn't have an impulsive need to corrupt. He chooses to corrupt things due to a jealousy of the creations of others. Just look at how Coldharbor lacks originality as Bal's realm is mostly mocking imitations or things directly stolen from Nirn itself.

[@mike-0451]

Jealousy is just one form of corruption. It’s the corruption of desire. The irony is that Molag Bal is thoroughly fucked up to the point that he recurs on himself. Bal doesn’t need to “support” slavery; he is already slavery. Bal is both a corrupter and corruption. Corruption is not possible without a corrupter, and vice versa. Bal is not the demiurge of corruption either; they co-exist necessarily.

[@sionbell981]

I don’t think the lack of originality is a Molag Bal thing. In ESO (I think it’s a crow in crow’s wood that says this but I may be wrong) they player finds out that the Daedra in general are really bad at creating but really good at mimicking. Basically the reason why Molag Bal mimics lyg is simply because all Daedra are mimicking something.

[@humanitysfinest9795]

Its basically the middle finger to Lorkhan

[@stolengirlfriendclub8724]

Do you think Molag bal the lord of domination would so easily reward you?

[@neoqwerty]

@@sionbell981 It's not just ESO lore, that's from some lore book (there's many of them and I don't have them all memorized by subject yet). IIRC it was in Morrowind and discussing how Daedric armor and weapons are made. paraphrasing the lore: Daedric creations are always imitations of the best on Nirn, but they always look that slightest bit "off" from what a well-balanced weapon would be, for example, and are corrupted imitations of perfection; close enough for the untrained eye, but inferior and poorer than what a perfect mortal creation could be. Pretty sure that book is also in Oblivion and Skyrim, so if you hoard books check for one that talks about forging, I know it also tackled ebony and glass.

[@Sally4th_]

So basically MB is that kid who likes pulling wings off butterflies. I'd call "evil" on that.

[@ScythosMusic]

Starting 23 with Molag Bal, can’t wait for the Plane Meld

[@muslimcrusader5987]

An excellent video as always. My theory is that Molag Bal was originally a mortal himself, born from the Dreughs, and fought his way up to become the strongest amongst them. Then at one point he discovered CHIM, which gave him the power to rival the Et’Ada themselves. That would explain how Molag Bal was able to teach Vivec CHIM. I would imagine, in this theory, that Bal wasn’t the best user of CHIM, and perhaps struggles to tap into that power, which would explain why he couldn’t use it in conquering Mundus.

[@Phoenix-ej2sh]

"Molag Bal is not evil." - uh. Ok, I'm picking up what you're putting down with the ant analogy... I guess .... but damn. If Molag Bal isn't evil, then the word is meaningless as it applies to the ES universe.

[@Lyndonmaman]

12:26 "Using fear as his mind killer." You sneaky nerd, you.

[@gabenvandenbrink9114]

Hi Drew, if there is a tower in Coldharbour. Would that mean that the Thalmor would need to deactivate that one as well? Also, could it be that Talos IS Lorkhan now? Or more of an aedra that takes his place in the divine pantheon. You could argue that all shezarrine we meet are now actually Talos's mortal incantations. Also, i love your theory of Coldharbour having aspects of Lyg rather then Tamriel. It is so fitting and like you said, explains the 'old war look' really well.

[@neoqwerty]

Talos is Shor/Shezarr: the empty, cored-out part of Lorkhan. Lorkhan's divine fire lays in his Heart (there is a reason the song Red Diamond says that the Heart laughed in Auriel's face when it was torn from Lorkhan's chest-- in doing so, Auriel created Shor, greatest enemy of Mer), as we all know from the god-like powers the Heart can give, and from the reason Numidium and Akulakhan, both artificial gods, needed the heart of a god, or something close enough to confuse for one (11, the inelegant number; without a witness could you tell Lorkhan's soul apart from Lorkhan's husk? but only one of them is the king, and the other is his shadow.)

[@LICENFIREFEAR]

He may be evil , but he is one magnificent deadric lord, thank you for the legendary videos master drew

[@gavin_almeida]

Anyone else actually love how ESO portrayed coldharbour?

[@MLPDethDealr32]

No. I prefer how its shown in the mod Vigilant. ESO pisses me off Storywise/Lore wise.

[@HiAgainTheNameIsStillAyle]

​@@MLPDethDealr32Counterpoint: There is a dialogue that implocates that one of the arch mages of the Mages Guild was fucked by Shegorath

[@AeronHale]

Vigilant is easily one the best out there for both design and story. Vicn's mods are peak content.

[@malkeus6487]

Seems pretty sad to have all that power and be compelled to torment and dominate something you don't even acknowledge as a thinking being. That's like... Keeping a dog around so you can hit it with a stick and laugh.

[@brandonbest8489]

I'm loving these drewmora videos. Especially the deadra and entity focused ones. I've watched.. probably thousands ( I'm not kidding) of elder scrolls videos. I like this format.. I like the narration and video style.. and here's the cherry on top.. in almost every video I learn something I never knew.. at this point.. that's far and few.. but to bring up such details on a normal and consistent basis.. well done.

[@editorrbr2107]

I would listen to Drew reading insurance policies.

[@whyjnot420]

Why the hell do I keep watching videos like this when I haven't played Skyrim in 5 years?

[@MyUsualComment]

He's just misunderstood, guys. He's really nice once you get to know him.

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

Domination is just a nastier word for domestication. See horse and dog, and spare me illusions about them being "your best friend". Last time that I checked, one cannot make the call to put down their "best friend" out of convenience... Oh, wait. Boethia and Mephala advocate just that. Never mind.

[@torthos1]

"I can fix him"

[@lamontcranston1716]

@@DarkAdonisVyers you put down a dog out of kindness most times. Like you would put down your best friend. Who was suffering or if they asked you to. Domination in the way molag baal does it and how we domesticate animals isn’t comparable. Domestication has a distinct practical purpose, and we are meant to bond with the horse or the dog, it is a symbiotic relationship. We feed and protect the dog, the dog protects us and our house. The horse Carries us and our belongings, we give it a place to live, safe from predators, food and we look after it. Molag Baal dominates things out of no practical need, only to perpetuate more suffering, and because he can, as a display of his power. It’s self indulgent, and serves no purpose beyond this. He doesn’t bond with his charges, He doesn’t look after them He feels no obligation or responsibility towards them There is no quid pro quo between him and them

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

@@lamontcranston1716 No, in a lot of places, assisted suicide is illegal. As for the rest... Yes, I've heard all of that said as a justification for slavery. Also, whether intentional or not, there are many benefits to being a vampire.

[@lamontcranston1716]

@@DarkAdonisVyers illegality or legality has no bearing on your argument. If your horse breaks it’s leg, you put it down because usually horses cannot stay off of their legs long enough to let it heal. So they’re constantly in pain. If your dog is sick and pain you put it down because it’s kinder. If your friend decides they don’t want live because of the pain, you honour their wish. Medical assistance in dying is a thing. People can have a Do Not Resuscitate order at the hospital. Slavery and domestication of animals are different things. Just because you heard a dumb justification for it, doesn’t make the distinct difference between domestication of animals and what Molag Baal does any less apparent. There are no benefits to being a vampire in elder scrolls beyond surface level. It’s meant to be a corruption of the soul. You take something good, twist it inside out, and turn it to a monster. Molag Baal raped and tortured that woman to create the first vampire hence *“The King of Rape”* he invented rape as a way to corrupt the beginning of life and vampirism became a corruption of death. Also if you wanna be a pure blood vampire You gotta get *raped to death* by Molag Baal in his ritual sooooo yeah. I think you tried a edgy argument without fully understanding what you’re saying here.

[@RyuuKageDesu]

Perspectives like this always seem a little off, to me. And, not just Molag Bal. Even in game, most daedric princes act as though mortals are weak little ants, yet also seem to put a lot of time, thought, and probably as much energy into maintaining their public relations. If the mortals are so powerless, why even bother with them? As for the mortals, who would warship such a creature; what would they get out of it? It may very well be that mortal beliefs mold the reality of their gods, meaning that Molag Bal is this way because that's what people believe. The possible explanation helps, a little, but I am curious how that irons out in the long run.

[@benjaminrabuzin9957]

I wonder is his internal logic is challenged upon the creation of vampires. Seemingly giving humans not just the affliction of feeding on their own kind but the choice to do so. As a vampire if you don’t feed in Skyrim I’m not 100% sure lore wise If you would die, you just become weaker to the sun. It seems in his attempt to show humans how weak they are , all he honestly did is show how strong some of us can be. Physically or mentally.

[@badluck5647]

Molog Bal seems to lack imagination as most of his creations seem to be either twisted imitations or corruptions of the orginal. Maybe vampirism is an imitation of lycanthropy with the sole intent of mocking Arkay or Meridia.

[@benjaminrabuzin9957]

@@badluck5647 I actually really like that conceptualization, seemingly so arrogant and non creative that he has to resort to plagiarism

[@daedric1387]

He forces mortals to rise to the challenges he sets, to those who succeed he grows a modicum of respect. He reviles weakness. Even in defeat he is often more prone to praise his foe to possess such skill or strength.

[@OfficialChrissums]

i think bal is infact insecure about mortals. He fears that they have more free will than him, as he has nothing outside of his sphere. All he is, and all he is defined by, is his domination of others. Without free will there is nothing to truly dominate, and so, like it or not, we must remain somewhat free or he cannot dominate us. Jygyllag is the one who truly can and wants to remove free will. Jygyllag doesnt even want or have free will himself. For him there is only perfect order and that includes putting himself into that order. Bal doesnt want to control humanity, he wants to DOMINATE it. Jygyllag can take away your free will, bal can only torture the defiance out of you. I think Bal's insecurity comes from the fact that his own sphere is contradictory. He wants to dominate mortals and sees them as not posessing will, but if he truly could remove their will, or if they had none to start with, then there would be no psyche for him to derive pleasure from dominating. I think on some level he knows this, and the fact that Dagon was able to show him clearly that no matter how thoroughly he dominated the wills of mortals that will could be reawakened at any time bruised him to his core. He is perhaps the only prince whose sphere suffers from this self-contradictory flaw and I imagine that would make him feel very weak indeed.

[@azadisoleil6319]

You left me with more questions than answers(just like you always did) that makes you a good Elder Scrolls commentator. I’ve come to understand that if one speaks of the content, and the words flow smoothly without raising any questions nor concern, they did not do their homework well. The wisdom of the Elder Scrolls requires one’s mind to collapse to truly understand.

[@jokroast6912]

Was the Coral Tower in Thras one of the ones that was holding up the sky, holding up the Mundas? It would make sense that every sapient race be destined to have one (live near one) or build one at some point during each Kalpa experiment. I know that this holds true for the bird folks that inhabited the heartlands, maintained the White-Gold Tower at a different time from when Mer did, no? Maybe people cannot find Atmora because there is no longer a tower to hold it into existence, nor a sapient race wherein.

[@leonardomarquesbellini]

The (unofficial) source that lists the towers and their role have then all accounted for, but bare in mind actual official sources have the towers be a lot more flexible and being able to be created and re-created.

[@skipmage]

So, you are telling me; that if a Player were to stride into Molag Bal's palace, lay him low, defile his body and bind the pieces into tools for their own use: Molag Bal would not be angry, for this is merely the nature of a dog- to bite it's owner? I think he'd be mightily pissed, he's already angered that some mortals simply refuse his games. Molag Bal as depicted within the world of Nirn is a petulant man child.

[@lemonj3537]

In the previous Kalpa, Molag Bal was just as greedy and tried to hold onto fragments of Lyg as it was coming to an end. This caused Alduin to punish him by trapping him “in between places”, permanently altering his form. Edit - Source: “The Eating-Birth of Dagon” by Michael Kirkbride.

[@whooll]

This was awesome. It's been a while since I completed the main quest in ESO but some of the clips you got from it are incredible and makes me feel like I'm seeing some of it for the first time somehow lol

[@jcol1708]

16:57 “erasing half the mortal population of Tamriel far exceeds the necessity’s of natural order” Thanos dislikes this video.

[@Afrafasti]

So Molag Bal is like a pet. Don't bother explaining things to Molag Bal, just get the spray bottle. Put aluminum foil on all the entrances to the world, maybe he's like a cat and that'll freak him out.

[@codyskater6073]

Would love to see a video that talks about how liches fit in elder scroll lore

[@mattasticmattattack8546]

I believe there's one out there , but it's a manimarco vid

[@rejvaik00]

I don't think Molag bal had anything to do with soul trapping or knowledge of black soul gems I'd say it would be the ideal Masters instead

[@marisanya]

This video is amazing, but I think your conclusion on Bal is off, especially after all of that. Molag Bal has an aspect or nature to him that is intrinsic to him, just as it is for every Aedra or Daedra. Even between reincarnations this is true because the Godhead dreams this way consistently. Sheogorath is NEVER to suddenly become “The prince of” celebration or whatnot for example. In my opinion men and mer are given the most free will due to the power the Aedra and especially Lorkhan put into Nirn. My point is that Molag Bal’s primary unchanging aspect is his thirst for domination. He isn’t “special” in being this way as you claim at the end, he’s like every other prince being driven by their nature. That’s why I had to mention the Godhead. With this in mind, I think he has actual motivations for torturing humans as well. If a human for example DOES torture a lion, we consider that evil, because even if it can’t reflect on its pain and why it’s feeling pain it can still feel it just like us. However if that human tortures a lion because of a deep personal hatred of lions, it’s a somewhat different situation. On this note, I think it’s hatred. Whether it be human free will, or the Aedra/Lorkhan, there is a personal hatred behind his spite. That’s what I think anyways.

[@ericdane7769]

So, as long as you don't have a moral code or conception of other beings' independent agency, you cannot be evil? Haha, I know a few world leaders who would give your video big thumbs up.

[@cardemis7637]

I like the odea of colharbor reflecting Molag Bal's history with Lygg, but I also feel like it simultaneously reflects his desire for tamriel. If it is a reflection of Bal's psyche, then it may reflect more than one aspect.

[@OakandIV]

“He isn’t Evil, he just does not view mortals as sapient beings” suggests we need to define what the daedrologist thinks “Evil” means. ;-)

[@MediumRareBacon]

i skipped all the dialogue since the start of the game so i thought we were still fighting molag bal

[@TylerHolt-hh5cf]

Bro what?

[@markjacobs3232]

Molag Bal is the daedric prince of courage, willpower, and triumph. He talks down to those fearful or obedient to him, but respectful(as seen in elder scrolls online) to those who stand up to him. He punishes those without the will to hold to their vows in Oblivion. They are only punished because they broke their vows. And triumph, shown in domination and r word. He is the harshest of the daedric princes, as seen with the torture quota to those who fail to meet his demands, but he is not just ES Satan. It actually makes sense that he punishes so many of his followers. Many are orca who claim to be strong, tough, and to stand up to anyone, but they will kneel, grovel, and such as almost any other mortal when faced with a daedric princes wrath. He HATES them for this as it is exactly the opposite of the followers he wants.

[@markjacobs3232]

Orc, not orca, weird spelling change, though now the idea of orcas worshipping him I can’t get out of my head…

[@sevenheavens-gj9qq]

Indeed. As seen in ESO, after his defeat in Coldharbour, he even goes as far as manifesting in Meridia’s realm to congratulate the Vestige. He’s got plenty of oddly appreciative, obsessive quotes regarding the Vestige in his dolmens. “Ah, it’s my unwitting tool. Return to my realm and serve me.” "You've proven your strength. Again." "Bend your knee to me, I'll give you a minion for each enemy you've slain. You will have an army." "My plan comes to fruition, mortal. You serve me now as a vessel of destruction." "Your soul is mine. I own you! Come. Let us play." "Your strength is mine. Come. Serve me." "Your strength will be rewarded. One day." "I forged you in the soulfire of Coldharbour to be my tool. Prove your worth." "I don't want revenge. I want your submission." Even getting personal like a stalker, referring to some of the Vestige’s companions. “Are you still working for the dim one?” "You and Sai Sahan have much in common … except you're not a complete failure." "The Battlemage has the amulet, but you have true power. Fight for me." "Mannimarco was a pawn. You are another. Come. Let's play." And such.

[@markjacobs3232]

@@sevenheavens-gj9qq Exactly, it's what makes the daedric princes so interesting in ES universe. They have both good and bad blended together. They are not pure good, nor pure evil, they are their own beings with their own wills and desires, and the same can be said for the divines as well. Akatosh is time, but also the end of time, Dibella isn't just love and hanky panky, but also art, and beauty, Zenithar can be the willy merchant, or the honest benefactor. Sheogorath, is he the mad god of insanity, or is Jyggalag? Heck on the note of Sheogorath, we all claim to love him and "he's just a silly guy", but he is horrifying on how his whims can torture and kill so many for his own amusement that seemingly had no purpose or motive.

[@xskippysticky5092]

Molag bal lore is great but the in game content are just... basic. I mean there is a lots of stuff that could be expanded more in depth. Though there are a lot of princes who get even less attention so i might sound like im whining. All im saying that he should be Palpatine of elder scrolls, setting up master plans and people dont realise untill its too late but no, all we get is ego untill the end of eso main quest... 😬

[@hawkeyenextgen7117]

The only reason I chose to do Molag Bal’s quest in Skyrim was because I had beef with Boethiah. She sent a cultist to kill me after completing my quest in Goldenglow. So I figured what better way to lay waste to her cult than to smite them with her rival’s weapon?

[@afonsodealbuquerque1879]

I think Molag might desire to impose suffering on mortals because of the fall of his race as a Dreugh, and as a symbol of the ocean and a crustacean he represents the merciless cruelty of nature. Just imagine sailors being killed by a storm at sea, bodies lost not receiving proper funerals, eaten by crabs, souls forsaken in limbo forever.

[@FumblesWumbles]

Just discovered your personal Channel Drew. Easy smash on the Subscribe button. Hope things are all well with FudgeMuppet though. Don't wanna see you fellas ever fully split in your work, even if you go in your own directions. Looking forward to future projects of each of y'all.

[@Kardel_VA]

First suggesting Talos a liar, now Drewmora suggesting Molag Bal "ain't that bad". Nordbros are absolutely seething at this point.

[@crandleberrysadie]

🤣

[@DrewmoraYT]

I might have a nord focused video coming soon as an olive branch 😂

[@crandleberrysadie]

@@DrewmoraYT Can you think about a Lorhkan one too, please? 🙏

[@lemonZzzzs]

So, basically, Molag Bal is a player, messing around in a world of NPCs? Given some CHIM lore tied to self-realization as a fictional character, that may actually be his main problem... Still makes him a dick though :P

[@scroom1202]

I love how everyone unwittingly makes Bal sound not anywhere near as bad as he is. You can't sell just how terrible Lamae's fate was by glossing over the event. You wouldn't even say the word. Molag Bal raped and innocent woman. Brutally, and with the end goal of having her die in pain and hate, he stole her virtue. That's how you instill the disgust his name should invoke.

[@yammoto148]

Your conclusion makes sense but here is kind of where I disagree with you. You see in theology what we find constant with mythological deities is that they are bound to their domain which intrinsically influences their character, for example a sun god is usually viewed as powerful or a moon god is usually seen as wise or feminine. Molag Bal's domain is domination, and he seeks to dominate every aspect of life. I don't think he has an insecurity issue nor do I think he just likes bullying mortals as he doesn't seem to take pleasure in it. I think he just feels that everything in his existence is worse than him from mortals, to gods to other daedric princes. He comes off more as a Narcissist in that everything needs to revolve around him and if it doesn't he squashes it and doesn't see it as bad or dreadful. He makes everything simply about himself and its the reason why he wanted to plane meld with Tamriel. If he makes every realm his well then the universe revolves around him doesn't it? He basically only does things in his interests and his goals. Its also why he is the prince of schemes because he doesn't want to do anything that ultimately brings risk to himself, so he has to have a contingency for every event that could happen. Its also why he is so different from other Daedric princes in that they might co-operate on premise of mutual benefit (At least a mutual benefit from their position and very rarely from the mortals) but Molag Bal only wants himself to come out on top which means he will backstab and betray faster than even Mephala. In fact just submitting to him in any form is basically making yourself one of his fingers in the world of Tamriel and thus betraying yourself to him. Other daedric princes are twisted in that they will manipulate and toy with your nature but only Molag will legitimately make every single thing you do for him, only serve his interests and bring yourself to ruin. Because to him a deal or a bargain is just another way for him to dominate someone and step over them. He dominates because doing so elevates himself above others. He is the one with the right to dominate therefore everything else must become subservient. Its simple logic for him. I think the thing that makes him ultimately tragic is that despite only caring for himself he can't love himself or love anything for that matter. He only knows how to express himself through domination, as if its his only emotion. This doesn't make him insecure or anything like that, just absent to a concept so foreign he could never understand it as anything but through his twisted lens.

[@VonDesmond]

Amazing video yet again i am a vampire in almost all my games of tamerial i had to understand molag bal and you made that possible thank you again 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@aaroncoffey2109]

You all should look up the real world deity that Molag Bal is based on. Disturbing.

[@festro1000]

I'd have to disagree with the sentiment toward the end save for insecure (Molag Bal is in no way insecure). The only similarities I can see with Molag Bal and the kid on the anthill is the position of power and the sheer lack of empathy, that is practically where it ends, Molag bal is a learned divine being so he doesn't have the defense of ignorance, and his treatment of the other gods (Meridia in particular) show that it's not just the difference in power that justifies his antics, he knows what he's doing is immoral he just doesn't care. Take the school bully for example, he sees himself superior to the people he torments, but regardless how much bigger, stronger, or martially learned he is it doesn't change the fact he's still a bully. Another point are slavers, they generally aren't looked at as good, or neutral individuals so it's not unreasonable to see them as evil or at the very least even morally ambiguous, but unlike the Dunmer, Altmer, or even Dwemer those they enslaved served a productive purpose and were cared for (even if to some minimum degree), even in the case of the Falmer who initially choose to serve the Dwarves, Molag Bal on the other hand subjugates (more often without consent) twists and deranges his victims out of spite (in the case of Arkay, and questionably Meridia), his own pleasure, and for the pure sake of it. In the end, He's the textbook definition of a card carrying villain, who can't even be considered morally ambiguous as he would have to have some redeeming quality, or serve a purpose other than as an antagonist in practically every encounter.

[@alanolex3962]

Molag Bal is great because he's just so damn hateable. Sometimes you just need a villain who is an unrepentant piece of shit purely because he enjoys it.

[@anthonybullard4441]

I always kind of assumed his motivation was revenge. He seems to be lashing out at everyone responsible for the destruction of "his" world and doing everything he can to wreck the world that replaced it because he resents its existence.

[@eclipsedsanity9390]

Ruddy man: wow I achieved chim and now that I have come to realize that this universe is a dream and none of it is real I will use chim to become a God of darkness and corruption in the next kalpa and dedicate my newly eternal and infinite existence to take a constant S**t all over the entirety of the aurbis out of sheer spite and a lack of care due to the fact that this is nothing but a dream. I mean it isnt cruel and evil to harm and torture a figment of a dream right?.

[@vanyakalinka8305]

I am more intrigued by your definition of evil rather than your opinion on Molag Bal. You seem to be confused with what evil is.

[@SterbiusMcGurbius]

Did you know Lyg was just the first name? The whole name was Lyg MaBals.

[@Im-Not-a-Dog]

I can not wait for the next of our 36 lessons.

[@BlackHoleForge]

Glad to see you going strong with your new channel. Here is a subscription. May Shadows hide you.

[@jem_aquariusmoon]

I don’t know what it is but I am truly fascinated by Molag Bal and vampires in general lol Thank you so much for this excellent video on him, you’re such an awesome storyteller!

[@Stuffman1861]

It would honestly surprise if Drew doesn't achieve Chim at some point soon, if he hasn't already.

[@albertusvanlubeeck9161]

Solid work! I've never taken to the idea of any of them being "just evil." I think that idea comes from a narcissistic place of mortals placing themselves on par with deities. The only evil aspect would come from the mortals (not vampires) that partake in his plans. As mortals, they know the suffering and pain they will cause. An eternal being on the other hand will outlast not only your species but the universe as a whole. You are nothing other than fleeting ideas from their perspective.

[@badluck5647]

If Molag Bal sees morals as so insignificant, then why is there such an obsession with dominating them?

[@albertusvanlubeeck9161]

@Bad Luck it's not domination of them that is so important as it is spiting other deities. The whole vampirism is a perfect example. How does making vampires help him outside of spitting in Akays face?

[@death299]

@@badluck5647 boredom, spite and just what he quite literally is is the domination of others. if you view crops and animals we harvest as insignificant compared to you, why do you seek to control what they do and how they grow? if you view ants as insignificant bugs, why are they killed when they're in your home? domination has nothing to do with the view of others as insignificant or important, merely that it exists and you are above it.

[@badluck5647]

@@death299Your metaphors don't make sense. I like to eat beef, but I don't hunt down cows to mutilate them. I don't want ants in my house, so I don't capture them in order to torture them in my home. Clearly, Bal's active pursuit of mortals over animals or daedra shows he sees significance in mortals.

[@death299]

@@badluck5647 and how precisely do you get that beef? you don't "hunt" them, you keep them in cages subjugated to your will until they die prematurely for your consumption/use do you leave ants and other pests to wander around your home and property freely?, or do you engage in pest control and kill them when they trespass? but pray tell, do you think hunters and slave owners view(d) those they hunt and enslave as their equals? tf are you talking about? bal is constantly torturing and trying to conquer other deadra and princes you not understanding the metaphor doesn't make it bad, it just means you missed the point entirely, esp given how you act like you don't hunt and mutilate animals lol

[@iamfine2624]

1:47 Lygma balls

[@xel_los]

For how awful molag bal is I take solace in the fact he looks like the awful meme morbin time

[@D.Aniel89]

Awesome video by the way!

[@st.anselmsfire3547]

Molag Bal is the only Daedric Prince who is purely evil. The rest have some nuance. And I think his behavior towards Arkay, or rather one of Arkay's priests, shows that he's just an insecure bully. Boethiah was at least willing to take on an Aedra in single combat - and then get utterly wasted, so they had to use deception, but still, they eventually defeated Trinimac and created Malacath. Not so with Molag Bal. He never takes on other gods, only mortals. And the one time he did take on another God, Vivec, he got destroyed, multiple times. He's like the Donald Trump of Daedra. Yeah, he seems all big and scary, and he's the big bad for one game, but ultimately, he's a pathetic bully that goes down quickly when confronted by someone of a similar status. He is entertaining, though, if for no other reason than to see the frequent humiliations of the Prince of Domination, like when Vivec just regularly owned him for centuries, or when Sheogorath fucked him up as a joke.

[@oldmanodin3521]

Awesome! Are there more lessons of Vivec to come?

[@buffch1cken77]

Nice try Molag. I won’t turn coat that easily

[@jancerny3657]

Wait wait wait, you mentioned that gods (Aedra and Daedra) existed in last Kalpa, but didn't end of cycle destroy everything, gods included and start a world anew by new clash of Anu and Padomay?

[@DrewmoraYT]

The idea is that the mortal world (Mundus) can be destroyed or can 'restart' as a new 'Kalpa'. But that takes the Mundus back to the Dawn Era. The gods themselves are not destroyed, only the mortal realm. In the Monomyth, there's a good explanation in the Redguard story. The gods found a way to 'bypass the cycle by moving at strange angles'. So they don't reset with the mortal world. I hope this helped and didn't create more confusion 😂

[@mike-0451]

The particular stories and myths and metaphors are forgotten but the force of history (Geist) remains to ask the question “what is being?” giving rise once again to an innumerable amount of answers (all of which are true, thus false and insufficient as answers, inviting more answers-more narratives, more gods, redguards, CHIM, The aedra, the taste of canis root, the idea of a square… these “answers” are literally all beings come into answer the question “what is being?”. In Elder Scrolls, the grand narrative is simply the Brahman’s dreams, with godhead being the realization of the Atman (Satcitananda), sleeping and dreaming of what exactly he is, where he dreams of aedra and daedra and mortals and everything else. In any case his “consciousness” is always an infinite unconsciousness, because he is quite literally alseep and ever aware of his dreams. “CHIM” or “lucid dreaming” is a logical mistake. When one achieves CHIM, their eyes are closed forever, and they enter another dream not by transcendence, but by exile. They “leave”. They fall asleep and enter yet another dream, forgetting everything before, and desiring yet again to leave that dream. It is the journey from the alone to the alone. It’s tragic. The cosmos is a prison where every door leads outside into the prison. The truth is that “what is being?” is a rhetorical question, literally. There is no answer, because if there were then there could be no cosmos. The truth is that the inner core of all stories and metaphors and myths is utter nonsense, chaos, indifference, contradiction, death, dissolution, etc. it is from that sea of contradiction that every illusion of stable representation arises. Heraclitus is not missed here, but he wasn’t the first, no will he be the last.

[@ozgho09]

So Bal sees the Mundus as many of us do. A game and/or toy, its inhabitants automata to fill out this fantasy world, a fantasy world designed for one thing, to act as a power fantasy.

[@HiAgainTheNameIsStillAyle]

Molag Bal is pretty much an in universe incarnation of murder hobo players with a concerning amount of sex mods in their modlist

[@samfisher9413]

Am I the only one who wants to beat Molag Bal over the head with his own mace?

[@ChadKakashi]

So what happened? Why did you leave Fudgemuppet?

[@corneliuscarver8547]

I also like to imagine the name of his realm Cold Harbour as being a bittersweet title carved in the memory of his old life. Like when you experience a loss, especially the one that is deeply personal ....you are invaded by this coldness and your whole world feels barren. The harbour iin the title carries on a much more metaphysical meaning, because in a way, being within Oblivion... He is on the precipice of his home realm...but he can never go there again since its unmaking and He certainly cannot make it again. So he carries that title as a reminder to all the souls of THIS plane that he harvests from. Always standing on that "Cold Harbour", embittered and nostalgically depressed.

[@boldbearings]

Another fine write-up. 💎

[@Didymus20X6]

4:14 - "YOU CAN'T TAKE THE SKY FROM ME."

[@AlecEburhard]

Great video. I have a question. 🙋‍♂️ What is the the connections or “pact” between Akatosh and Shor you alluded to?

[@Kutamitasa]

If he perceives these mortals like a mindless drones, but spends all his time thinking about them, then what is the conclusion?

[@lorddeathofmurdermountain76]

What people don't get is both deadra and aedra contribute to the mortal psyche sure molagbal maybe cruel and unfair but without him there would be no courage to stand up to such atrocities that's where mehrunz dagon comes in without him there would be no opportunity for new oppressors they both represent two sides of a natural cycle Boithia may create a lot of bloodshed however she won't stab you in the back she will just stab you in the face because she represents survival and motivation to survive.

[@SaintBananaFATE]

This video is absolutely fantastic! I love researching elder scrolls and how you play yourself as a researcher in tamriel! Ekkk it just makes my nerdy side soooo happy! Can you do an episode on hermeas mora? He my favorite daedra!

[@gerbenvanegmond4007]

I loved listening to all this you're a great video maker Drewmora

[@TheGoatedPlum]

It makes me sad you don’t have more videos 😢

[@commando5872]

This episode was sponsored by: Mystery man Molong Bald, who is definitely not Molag Bal

[@OneTwoMark]

Since when was Mehrunes dagon a good guy? Didn’t he try and enslave the world in ES4? I’m guessing he had some form of arc where he was good and then was corrupted.

[@Indi.go1]

From what I remember he's the deadra of true freedom and revolution, however I don't think he ever stopped revolting. An example would be once he freed molag bals slaves, any leader among them would become the authority, and with authority comes rebellion, and finally revolution. And the cycle begins anew. He's neither good nor evil really, just an entity who gives freedom and revolution whether or not you want it. At least that's how I've always understood him. I'm highly condensing a lot, I don't remember enough details to give you a more detailed ansewer, it has been some time since I delved into an elder scroll.

[@ivoryowl]

Mehrunes Dagon is an entity that benefits from all the things he was originally created to fight against. You cannot liberate that which is already free, there is no need for ambition when all is provided for, and revolution and change have no place in a world where all is content with the way things are. Imagine an old-fashioned scale with two dishes, with Molag in one side and Dagon in the other. They indirectly benefit from each other's sphere of influence. Molag Bal doesn't care about his subordinates because, in his perspective, those are already his "property". What he cares about is the next thing he can conquer, be it a place or a person. He's after the thrill of the chase, so the speak. And if something proves harder to dominate or manages to escapes his grasp, that's when he becomes obsessed. So long as there's people with hope, ambition and sense of revolution, he will always have something to conquer.

[@classyrobot5648]

You have got to be kidding... the Lord of Domination, the Master of Torment, the King of R***, used to be a gods damned crab monster. Tamatoa, eat your heart out

[@isthatwhatemptymeans8222]

If u haven't seen the Oblivion/Andrew Tate meme.. u should. This is a great video as is usual from the Daedrologist... can't wait for the next Vivic lesson!!

[@philsoro491]

Clavicus vile always my favourite daedra 🙊

[@yourlocalcyborg]

BABE, WAKE UP! NEW DREWMORA VIDEO!!!

[@scuttleflip8650]

So in short, because his evil is more a force of nature, his intentions would be less evil than if he had a choice between baking you a cupcake or slipping you some liquid cyanide.

[@EnvisMavros]

Honestly, elder scrolls online may not be as good as oblivion or Skyrim, but I loved being able to rise up and fight a daedric god in one on one combat

[@PsychicAlchemy]

Lyg as the foundation for Coldharbour is an absolutely fascinating idea.

[@el-violador]

I really don't want to ruin the 666 likes from when I started watching

[@subtlegong2817]

It occurs to me that every Deadra Prince has a positive and negative aspect of their domains. Madness and subversion, free spirit and hedonism, grace and narcissism, honor and pride, domination and submission, revolution and destruction, order and tyranny.

[@Getmerked65]

Molag Bal is quite literally just Moloch Baal.. fools 😂

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

OK?

[@kilgoreclayton]

He’s awesome for the last 8 years he’s just been steady dropping anchors and giving us free treasure chests

[@soradero]

So... wisps are the fractured soul of the first daedric rape victim?

[@Ivan-qk2rn]

I would be that person, who ruins the mood at party. This whole video rubs me the wrong way very much. I hope you came to this conclusion about "maybe Molag Bal is not evil" just for the sake of pretending you have something new and smart to say. But Molag Bal is evil. Sure, I can dig in some mind-boggling philosophical discourse, but we don't need to do it to agree why he is evil. Where's your conscience, people?

[@katiecool70]

Daedric princes aren't inherently evil, they're the personification of chaos, we know this lol. To call them straight up evil is to completely deny their purpose on Tamriel. Also just such a low effort take at understanding/explaining how they work (which you can't) sooo much more complicated than haha evil guy

[@Ivan-qk2rn]

@@katiecool70 okay. Did i say he is inherently evil? This whole reading about "not evil, just chaotic" stands on a substantial understanding of evil: that there is a thing, a substance, of which the Prince is made, and this substance have a permanent property, an essential character - evilness. But I am not saying that. He is both an embodiment of chaos, though it's not a good line of conceptualisation again because then we substantiate chaos and create a body made with this substance, and both evil. By his deeds. He is utterly evil in relation to us. Maybe he is not for rocks. But he is absolutely evil to us, because his every action is and would be with a harm and ruin as a consequence to mortals at least, not to say about his goals and drives. He is relationally evil. And there is also no mistake, an error of "good intentions leeds to hell". He is not even an n*z* dictator who promises a better world (which in the logic of nz require a total war and gnside), he just does it with no excuses and higher promises, with no propaganda. Molag Bal, in contrast with floods, for example, is clearly designed as a character, a subject, a point of choice and decision. He is free to do, and he does harm. Azura, let's compare, is much more conflicted character and her actions are messy, her relation with mortals is both harmful and rewarding not only for us, but also for herself.

[@deptusmechanikus7362]

​​@@katiecool70 Molag Bal is not evil because he's metaphysical personification of chaos. Molag Bal is evil because he's canonically confirmed rapist

[@pancakes8670]

I agree. I feel like too many people have an aversion to calling something Evil because it makes them feel smarter and more "Nuanced". Some things are just plain evil, no "ifs" and "buts" to it. Yes, the other Daedric Princes are very nuanced and complex, with layers to their characters that offer more than what's presented of them in the games. Molag Bal however is MEANT to be just evil, because if there is no such thing as pure evil, then there can't be anything nuanced that's built off of it. It's not Anti-intellectual or Anti-Philosphical to acknowledge that some things are just fucked up and evil.

[@mjslack3073]

29:06 Bro yes. That was the whole point of “Ant Bully” ??? A reason is not an excuse. A child torturing ants should be taught that it’s wrong, you don’t just shake your head and go “well he doesn’t know any better 🤷🏻‍♀️”. That’s how shit gets this fucking bad 😭😭😭

[@critical3rrrornotfound]

Best way to start the new year! Great work

[@DarkrarLetsPlay]

I liked those alliterations :)

[@Eddn102]

Lyg mah Molag Bals. (Nice video, really liked it.)

[@YABBAHEY1]

Original spirit or 1st essence of a random ideal made corporeal is pretty basic by nature. Molag Bal = Domination The only complexity is the manner he/she, it uses to achieve this. Try to reason motives or origins & one will only find Molag Bal falling back to a simple bases : Domination, enslavement, general douche baggedness for it's own sake. Not to break the fourth wall or reiterate what you already know but all ES gods & demons are fashioned after ancient gods & demons from just about every major religion & minor idols on earth. I find that endlessly fascinating. The story of "One man's god , an other's demon", evolution of beliefs & methods of dating "The beginning time" etc... Myth, legends, Heros...all cool stuff. Baal - 2334 BC Mesopotamia fertility god later demonized by religious progression/change. Moloch - Same gen.time period (poss.) Argued deity involved w/child sacrifice. God of the underworld. (Demonized former idol) Possibly differing names for the same god, Rabbi : "I don't know, could be, maybe not, could be something entirely different, god bless, now go away, I just like debating things..." (So solid, irrefutable archeological proof) on ancient beliefs.