MIG vs. Flux Core vs. Metal Core

[@Welddotcom]

Visit store.weld.com to support the channel.

[@stanervin6108]

Wow! A mathematical wizard with a degree in Business Administration who probably minored in QC that welds! 🧙‍♂️

[@zackaryrients1863]

This video is a bit beyond my grasp as of now, but it's extremely interesting. Ty

[@kevinpiltz7922]

@@stanervin6108 !!!

[@railfanjames7699]

What is the main purpose of metal core

[@simonkuhl6793]

You spelled efficiency wrong...

[@OMCanam]

Starting at 0:45 Explaining terms checked at 2:35 General end results at 13:57 Detailed/explained end results at 15:17 Awesome audio & video guys. Gj to your team. Thanks alot for these perfectly explained informations. Greetings from Canada!

[@GAIS414]

Would be cool to see a side by side penetration test and a bend test.

[@GAIS414]

@Wroger Wroger Don't think so. Just changing the gun angle will affect both the penetration and bead profile. I bet there will be some interesting differences between these wires.

[@LordButterstotch]

@@GAIS414 Ers70-6 wire is rated for 70,000psi, flux is rated at 72,000psi That's only a 1/35th difference between the two

[@alienpoker]

@Patrik Einarsson Disagree. Process will change the bend characteristics. Spray transfer, the wire is sprayed into the melting weldment. The wire never touches the metal. Also gas changes will affect properties of the weld when you bend it to failure.

[@GAIS414]

@@alienpoker So what's your point here? Would it be a bad thing to perform penetration and bend tests while comparing these wires? At least in my shop the structural properties of the weld is of great interest as well as getting the most bang for the buck. Also you don't need to school people who watch this particular video on how the processes work. I bet most of us are here because we have a professional interest in welding.

[@GAIS414]

@S14kabuild Yes. This is exactly why some further testing would be cool. Also in my experience gas shielded flux core equals deeper penetration. So, there must be more to this than just different deposition rates by weight. However interesting that is in it's own regard.

[@carolshawol6699]

Man this is what I'm talking about absolute golden information thank you guys so much your helping alot of people out

[@rondumontier1187]

After studying the history of welding in America it good to aee flux core is still holding it,s own. I keep 1 machine loaded up with fluxcore. Great vid Men.

[@danielkennedy8530]

I used to work at a shop on second shift when I was going to trade School. We ran 060 flux core wire. 30 volts and 275 on wire speed. This was required. It made great welds just like the ones you just tested. Thanks for the educational videos.

[@JFirn86Q]

Jerry is a boss and a wealth of knowledge, thanks to him for coming on the show!

[@kartnerds]

I thought you guys were welders but your scientist that weld. What an incredible video!

[@Elfurzio86]

NASA secret force

[@jamescameronmitchell4501]

Welding is a science my friend

[@mikeundereood1071]

Weldingtolage

[@OffGridOverLander]

I had really hoped to see the difference in the cut n etch

[@JnC445]

Wish there was a way to like a video more than one time, what an absolute gem; so full of information and well thought out production. The knowledge level and articulated way of putting it into words that almost everyone can understand makes it even better to enjoy, no personal preferences or BS beating around the bush just cold hard facts backed by solid data, thanks a lot guys.

[@XirisAutomation]

Glad you were able to get some great shots using the Xiris Weld Camera. Awesome video!

[@BlankityBlank]

Our shop is right in the middle of moving from flux core to pulse metal core. A large percentage of what we do is out of position but if you learn to pulse that stuff vertical up you're golden. Thanks for a great video, very informative.

[@TheLettich17]

Hey I know Jerry! From a certain company in Hanover , PA, unnamed of course! Good guy

[@shimarlie1]

Oh you mean Jerry from Jerry's Giant Dildo Emporium? Yeah, top guy. Knows his stuff.

[@derek9217]

Like to see some bend tests with those parameters.

[@gordonclark7632]

Who would have considered that there so many variables to obtain a production cost outcome. So interesting.

[@quietprolink5322]

Thank you for sharing. Very satisfying to hear the chiselling and see the melting process of the welding. That is the sight, sound, setting, angle I am trying to embedded or etch in my want to be welder of mine. cheers!

[@benjamintaylor3962]

Man I wish I could make a bead like that! Looks awesome! Thanks for all the videos, always helps me to get better!

[@anagentorange8611]

Nice having Jerry on here! Tons of knowledge between the 2 of you!

[@fluxcore4901]

Salute to you Sir in the blue shirt, you def know your shit 💪💯👨‍🏭👨‍🏭💯💪

[@BigPowerAL]

New Sub here. Just bought my first welder and learning a ton from your channel. Appreciate all the help!

[@WTFisAuserFRCKINname]

My favorite part is when you did the welding thing and showed us how the weld went and then went back to welding. Eye lyke weldinz.

[@Marco-uw9xd]

13:59, que aula, nem sabia que existia MCAW, muito parecido com FCAW aqui no Brasil trabalha muito com FCAW(arame tubular). Parabéns.

[@joopterwijn]

To make the test complete you should cut/polish/ets the samples and look at penetration, many a bend test. But overall a super interesting video! Well done guys keep them coming!

[@huntercolbert6879]

*laid down the nipped off wire* "There ya go little feller" lmao

[@ASAPJermz]

Wow just wow... So many gems in this episode! 🤯

[@snowkracker]

I’m on FCAW-G right now. I just passed t-joints yesterday so today when I go in I’ll start on my plates. At my school we use a 22.5 bevel on both with a ¼” gap. What I’ve realized is that you can’t be afraid to experiment with the settings a bit to figure out what settings fit best for me. Just turning up my wire speed 10 and I went from having spatter everywhere to not having everywhere.

[@mikeford963]

That's the whole point of welding school. Experiment there, remember what works for you, and take that out to the real world

[@aaronmccrary8085]

What gas blend where you using in the spray arc?

[@powerstroke0459]

Been running Hobart FabCor Edge on pulse for about two weeks and love it. Dont know if I'll ever go back to solid wire 70S-6

[@JT-91]

i just started welding and your videos are really helping me thanks

[@loganketchum7819]

The shop I work at we use almost only Hobart metal core. We weld a lot of 1" thick up to 6" a514 at 29.5v and 350 wfs with .045 wire and 90/10 gas. I would say we get an almost excessive amount of spatter.

[@ChromeToDaDome]

Hobart wire sucks. Hobart anything sucks lol

[@lunchboxproductions1183]

That makes sense because they're getting that wire to spray at 25.5v in the video, that extra 4v is just turning wire into spatter. Try turning the voltage down and bumping up that wire speed.

[@SteadArcFab_Ministries]

Wow now that was an awesome video you guys!!! The numbers really tell it. But it’s so cool to be able to do a comparison that way. I kind of suspected some of this with the tests that I’ve done. Of course they were nowhere near this detail though! Thanks

[@shahbazkh2885]

Beautiful and wonderful illustration

[@Hitman-ds1ei]

This is the type of comparative testing I like to see

[@dogwatchbyk9keeperfencingl507]

Shouldn’t the relationship of the deposition rate to the melt off rate coincide with the electrode efficiency? I’m coming up with 98.1%, am I missing something?

[@Welddotcom]

Rerunning the numbers. I think we may have just swapped the two when we recorded them on the whiteboard.

[@robertalexanderhoffmann8229]

Thanks for the calculations and the practical automatic welding for comparison !! THat will help me to choose the right possibility !!

[@adamreynolds3863]

That was a really neat video, a lot of time and effort was put into setting everything up and recording data, and you guys did a really good job with it, Kudos

[@raulrubio2862]

The dude in blue is super specific and articulates info very well lol wish he did more videos.

[@walterforsiethe2567]

This video has some really good information and I'm going to apply what I have learned every time I use my everlast mig.

[@georgewilliams6328]

Very informal, I just got a Lincoln 140 HD from Home Depot And will be doing around the house jobs for myself. I was a combination welder in the industry in Houston Texas for right at 20 years. Most of my welding was heliarc and stick welding and very little MIG welding. I'm kind of leaning towards the MIG welding part of my wire feeder because I feel like it has a much cleaner weld verse flux core. I didn't know that there was a difference between MIG welding and flux core welding just that the flux core had flux on it. And Mig you can use C25 from what I'm told. What do you think?

[@johnsellers2999]

Very good video thanks. One question,when you run double shielded flux you don't or can't reverse polarity,right? Where regularly on plain flux core single shielded ,no bottled gas you reverse polarity,correct?

[@scottpella7419]

This is an AWESOME test! What did you do with the wire in the whip? Didnt see that on the scale? Now that you have the samples, I'd love to see part 2, bend test/ penetration differences.

[@Welddotcom]

We retracted it back onto the spool before we weighed it

[@davey2k12]

I herd them say that they retracted it lol

[@Ali.g.97]

Keep on killing it you guys 🤘we appreciate the knowledge you bless us with🤣

[@TeamDeXtreme]

Gotta admit you guys are BY FAR the best welding channel on youtube...keep up the great vids! :D Learning TIG atm but its been too long since iv'e done MIG....might give flux core a go or just mig anyway with the argon i have already :P

[@evanburton1271]

Why do you limit solid wire to 5/16” and less(just curious)? I work in a machine shop and weld 1/2” and 5/8” plate all the time with ER70s-6 I normally run around 33/34 volts and around 600 IPM (my machine uses number dials for WFS :( ) and my amperage dial normally shows around 320 amps give or take with a short stick out. I’ve cut and etched scrap plates of this thickness before when I’ve had some down time to see if i need to adjust my settings. Needless to say i was fairly satisfied with the results, root and fills all looked good, so did my fillets.

[@BG-hs4qo]

⁵/¹⁶ is the filet weld size maximum for single pass. Not the material thickness. If you try welding a ⅜ single pass filet it doesn't penetrate as well because of how slow you have travel

[@nameofthegame9664]

Great video as always! Keep the quality content coming!

[@jimzivny1554]

Great test I'd love to see a cut and etch to check differences in penetration.

[@gobear83]

One of things I’ve always wondered.. between flux core and using a gas , which requires more ventilation when welding. Could I use mig with gas and weld in a closed garage ? Thanks Gobear

[@radishfever]

A smart human would ventilate and wear a good respirator every second of hood time. You don't want to breath the fumes from any process. Just how I roll.

[@TheMetalButcher]

@Swampy Inhaling argon is really bad? Really? Really. I guess that's why we all die then eh, because 1% of the air you're breathing is Argon.

[@ump107]

They both require ventilation, flux core you “see” the need more than you do with argon. The fumes and smoke from flux core go up right at your face and mask. There is less smoke and fumes produced when your using argon or C25 when mig welding but it is still produced. Argon and Co2 are heavier than air and will “fall off” your welding table and down to the floor. While the gases are falling away from you they can and will fill low lying areas displacing the available oxygen in the space. If you have an attached garage those gases can go into your house and displace the oxygen inside there. While it takes a fair amount of gas to completely displace the oxygen in the garage enough could accumulate to be a hazard to small ground level children and pets. Venting by drawing fresh air in from up high and blowing old air our from low when using gas shielded is always a good idea. Sometimes just leaving your garage door open a few inches and running a fan may give enough air exchange if you don’t have a hood or exhaust system in your garage. Additionally if you are using a respirator as good practice to filter out metal particulate or fumes you still must ensure that you have proper ventilation. I have seen body recoveries due to a respirator being used in an oxygen deficient environment.

[@JSuparman]

@@ump107 Thanks for comprehensive explanation about toxic welding gases.

[@scottharvey7730]

We tested metal core SMAW at work. A code shop. Running the wire wide open I could not get over 720 amps with 1/8 inch wire. The deposition efficiency and rate is crazy. Still think the solid wire looks better.

[@SirFuseable]

Great info, thanks. Just one question: Why do you never (rarely?) ever use or mention gasless flux cored? Perhaps you could do a video explaining why you don't use it in a professional environment. As a retiree (AKA hobbyist) I find gasless to have a number of advantages for the small amount of welding I do these days.

[@GodslilRedneck23]

SirFuseable check out some of our other videos. We’ve done a bunch on self-shielded flux core. Thanks for watching man.

[@Welddotcom]

Friday's video we are running t8 self shielded flux core.

[@RBAERO]

Nice video and nice weld jig. Has a videos about that weld jig you using on that video?

[@05RangerXLT]

Absolutely invaluable information here, thank you guys for it. If it's not too much to ask would you be able to cut and etch them to show weld nuggets?

[@Welddotcom]

We ran out of tim while Jerry was here for that, but we can post it up as a photo after we do it.

[@FishFind3000]

8:20 did you make sure you leveled your scale for accurate measurements.

[@michaelcoyle7071]

Solid - fcaw - mcaw : which one had the best penetration ?

[@jeanpierredaviau7478]

Did you used the gaz with the metal core?

[@lonnygehring3043]

Excellent test guys! Thanks for doing this.

[@patrickfarley8036]

This is the part of welding I like everybit as much laying down a beautiful bead! Gimme the "nerdy" stuff all day long! Metallurgy videos would be nice too! 😉👍✌️

[@dogwatchbyk9keeperfencingl507]

That’s amazing! metal core deposition rate is higher than the melt off rate! I’m assuming you reversed those numbers.

[@aristotelian9693]

He had to have. They also fixed the efficiency from the flux core (initially they calculated as lbs/hr, instead of %).

[@kain0m]

I don't know what they did there. According to their numbers, they deposited 0.162 lbs of weld, using 0.278 lbs of wire. Doesn't add up, that'd be 58% efficiency...

[@zod-engineering-welding]

Excellent info. Metal core on pulsed spray runs nice too.

[@bruced1429]

does the weight of the flux itself not have a bearing to the weight/per /hour etc. for deposits ?

[@ch2305]

Do you have a video that shows 'The Complete Welding Overview' ? It would be good for subscribers to be able to refer back to a complete overview. That would explain all the different processes (stick, tig, mig, pulse, with shield, without shield gas??) , transformers vs inverters, mobiles and how you would or wouldn't be able to add a mobile suitcase welder into your shop and truck. Great channel!! Thanks

[@beachboardfan9544]

What equipment do you guys use to get that 10:18 shot?

[@jamesgulrich7416]

I'm behind the times! Although I have heard the term metal core wire, I just figured it was a fancy way of saying solid wire. Thanks for the video because I did a little research to find it's a very interesting product. Something that I probably won't ever run through my 40-year-old miller wire feed though.

[@mikeford963]

Why not? It's hot, but it has it's place.

[@brendanstevens1855]

We run metal core in all positions and on scale. What is the disadvantages? Is it a bad thing to run it in all positions? I would love to know. We run .45 hobart fabcor edge

[@ryanjones9305]

I’m interested to know the product line numbers you used from selectarc for this test.

[@chuckmellor6507]

Would have like to have seen cross sections to show the penetration of each process.

[@caravantuggers1608]

Was the fillet leg sizes the same?

[@gtown_cowboy]

Crazy coincidence, Jerry was at my shop the other day doing a demo. Then he is in a random yt video I find.

[@yaishk]

So I was wondering, economy wise, are the throath thicknesses all the same? I imagine that with all parameters the same that one should be smaller with flux core

[@mattobermiller5041]

So why shield the flux core wire? I know double shielding makes for way cleaner welds than flux core alone but what was the point of it here?

[@cmjbrodman]

How is your deposition rate higher than your melt off rate on the metal core? Possibly got your numbers switched? with the numbers as they are, your electrode efficiency should be 102.8%...

[@HAMBURGERTIME1000]

Are the deposition rate and melt off rate switched on the board for metal core?

[@Welddotcom]

Rerunning the numbers. I think we may have just swapped the two when we recorded them on the whiteboard.

[@johnw4590]

I want to know how the your shop stays so clean? All the walls garage doors and everything in my shop is ruined... from the smoke and fumes..

[@Welddotcom]

Just gotta stay on top of it. Plus we use fine extraction for smoke

[@impregnate.]

John W damn grinder dust

[@Soldaduragal]

Amazing and educational video. I suggest two improvements for future videos: 1- Use international units too ( you got worldwide audience strugling with unit online converters). The AWS recomends use it in the Welding Handbook and is a common scientific practice. 2- Cut, polish and Nital etch a cross section, to compare penetration.

[@johnjacobjingle8302]

You would be suprised by how much the change in gas affects the process.. Also your voltage "legnth of arc" will also affect this more than you would think...

[@zod-engineering-welding]

electrode efficiency for solid wire on spray transfer is incorrect: 10.5/10.7= 98.1% efficiency. For metal-cored wire, deposition rate cannot be higher than the melt-off rate. Assuming these got mixed up, then 10.62/10.92= 97.3%.

[@hachemeachi]

I noticed that too

[@rickychavez7693]

Great video, very informative! 🤘🏽 anyone know the instrumental playing in the background during the arc shot? 😅

[@w4shep]

Great video! Maybe next you could see how these do against death core and grind core 😁

[@Then.72]

You try and tell me that bare (solid) wire doesn't spatter as much as Flux core? Try it on DIP and bare wire isn't allowed on pipe and vessel work in the UK

[@johnw4590]

Dual shield Flux core still the best heavy structural steel wire. Runs great vertical up and overhead. Smoother flater weld

[@blueside1999]

Im curious about the cost of using gases, esp vs. flux no gas.

[@a.s.c.2909]

What is the difference between solid core and metal core wire? I have never heard the term metal core until now. Great video as always.

[@andrewmeers2086]

may i ask what feeder do you have on your dc400

[@Gregwiebe375]

Would the solid test be .035 or .045? Just curious

[@dannyboy1794]

Awesome video, enjoyed the content. Great job!

[@jrstow86]

How does the efficiency compare to strength?

[@georgesimpson3113]

OK, I think I missed something - what is the difference in solid wire and metal core? I've heard of solid and flux core(s) but never metal core...

[@abpsd73]

I was wondering the same and had to do some searching and reading. Solid is just solid wire with usually a plating to reduce oxidation during storage. Metal core has a core of a blend of metals in powder form, the outer sheathing is there to provide a current path for the arc.

[@georgesimpson3113]

@@abpsd73 Yea... I think I'm looking at the same googled site you are. I'm reading the same thing. Funny I've never heard of metal core before...

[@Welddotcom]

Metal core is a cored wire that has alloy in the core rather than flux. Check out Select Arc's website. They have some good information.

[@danl.4743]

@@Welddotcom So it's a metal coated by another metal? Isn't that the standard MIG wire? Where there is a protective copper like colored ER70S-6?

[@Welddotcom]

@@danl.4743 No. The core is not solid like a standard solid wire MIG

[@DvS2171]

What's the song playing around 6:20 during the GMAW arc shots?

[@sebastiandieu2366]

The tune is called "Salt lake seagull"

[@DvS2171]

Sebastian Dieu thank you. I was able to find it with Shazam but I appreciate your help.

[@BLOOJ97]

I weld with the metal core at work every day. its crazy to see the difference between man and machine

[@182corbin]

Yup metal core is best bang for your buck. Lots of production shops out here will run 1/16 wire in big barrels of it.

[@mikegpunk4559]

What settings would they use for that 062

[@mrgreenswelding2853]

Face is awesome for vertical up. What is metal core?

[@thomasroberts2132]

This was insanely informative

[@scottycollins131]

Flux core rocked this test. Production cost?

[@canadiantrucker9574]

Ever since Chucke2009 went nutzoid you've been the go to channel to watch

[@ShainAndrews]

The few videos I watched of hers years ago told me that. You probably grew up, which is a very good thing.

[@canadiantrucker9574]

@@ShainAndrews well he wasn't a bad teacher but he went kookoo for cocoa puffs

[@canadiantrucker9574]

@calee4nyaboy I wouldn't say I'm stupid but okies

[@javiergarcia4818]

Mepuedes dar los amperajes y la salida de alambre Pará soldar con metalcor

[@boltonky]

Great information and very clear, tell you both are very knowledgeable. I would of been interested to see the self shielded wires used in this test also as comparison, i use a lot of shielded wire myself due to my workspace and price of gas in my area but its good to know both sides :)

[@JSuparman]

awesome scientific experiment here. Thanks.

[@bentlikeitsmaker]

Would love to have seen a cut to see penatration but honestly in canada for structural we can't run sold wire

[@muhammadsheharyar3506]

how come your melt off rate is lower than the deposition rate, incase of metal core wire?

[@fryreartechnology7611]

Love how y’all gave all that data. There is a lot to learn. FLUX-CORE amazed me. Good old idiot wire lol.

[@lprkon72]

This isn't standard flux core it's what they called double shielded which means it also uses gas

[@TheOutdoorMentors]

@@lprkon72 ok thanks. i was confused why they were gas shielding flux-core

[@Ratkill9000]

Yeah, majority of the Flux Cored wire small shop or hobbyists use is gas-less. Dual shielded is what larger job shops will use. You have to get a specific Flux cored wire to do it that way.

[@klaychesham1791]

Awwwweeesomeee video dude, I love getting deep into this stuff 😁. Just one thing bugging me, are the values for Dep. rate and melt off rate swapped around? Without Elec. efficiency above 100% it doesn’t add up 👍🏻

[@Welddotcom]

Rerunning the numbers. I think we may have just swapped the two when we recorded them on the whiteboard.