Welded Hydraulic Cylinder That Can't Be Repaired, Cut Open and Resealed

[@JimPalmer3]

I run a hydraulics manufacturing and repair company that specializes in heavy industrial applications. We refer to this type of cylinder as a mobile or welded type. Mobile/welded cylinders like this are in many cases considered throw away as they tend to be cheaper to buy new than to repair. Something like this could likely be purchased from a Tractor Supply store or something like it for a few hundred dollars. But, sometimes that is not an option. This is known as a volumetric cylinder, as the oil volume and pressure displaces the rod. It is single acting on the extend side, and uses gravity/mass to retract it, or other mechanical action of the equipment it is used for. It does not need a piston seal, or a piston for that matter. The "piston" on this rod is just a stop to keep the rod from being blown out by the oil and pressure at full stroke. It is an odd design though, being completely un-repairable. It really isnt the least expensive way to manufacture this type of cylinder, either. It would cost us more to build this way than to make it repairable. This is just a poor design. Most welded type cylinders have an open tube on the rod end with a threaded on cap that holds the rod seal, the rod wiper, and an oring to seal the outside of the cap to the tube, and it is very inexpensive to build them this way, and much easier to rebuild. This could probably be converted to that style easily, and then it would be rebuildable. When you assembled the cylinder, it took some good hammer hits to get the rod to load through the seals, i would recommend cutting a good load chamfer on the rod, something around 20 degrees, to make this easier to load, and not risk cutting or rolling your new seals. Also, if you dont have part numbers for your seals, you can measure the dimensions of the groove, which any seal company can use to find a seal that will work for you. Lastly, since this is a pressure vessel, be very careful with MIG welding, its very easy to end up with voids and holes that will not hold pressure and allow oil to escape, which can cause a dangerous situation. It can be done correctly with a MIG welder, but care must be taken. I would highly recommend testing this after the repair as well with a small hydraulic unit, utilizing proper PPE, and taking safety precautions. Ive experienced failures during testing where heads blew off, rods blew out the end, oil jets shot out from small holes in welds, etc... We have never had any major injuries from this, we use ballistic shields during testing, but there have been serious injuries over the years in our industry, and even some deaths from failures during testing. Just be smart about it if you do testing, its a pressure vessel, and if it bursts or breaks under pressure, a large amount of stored energy can be released in a bunch of different ways, so be careful. Anyway, you did a nice job repairing that very poorly design and manufactured cylinder, keep up the good work.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Thank you and great info. This particular cylinder wasn't available quickly, so repair was the option. Definitely a good learning experience. The cylinder was pressure treated and passed. I am always cautious when welding any pressure vessel. Been through some training on in and have a good friend to consult on the proper procedures. He is an ASME "R" & "S" stamp holder and a MN licensed pressure vessel inspector. I also have a WI inspector who is a good friend and stops by to give assistance and advise. Anyway again, thank you for your great and welcomed comment. I will pin this one for future viewers to read.

[@steveh8724]

Thanks for very helpful comment. My initial concern was safe pressure testing but Josh mentioned several time during the video that he would return the unit to the primary contractor who was going to test it before return to the customer. My only disappointment at the end of the video was not getting the rest of the story about the lack of a piston seal. I was planning to ask my dad who is a mechanical engineer, but your comment explained the situation! So thanks again to Josh and Jimmy, this was a great practical learning experience.

[@m16ty]

I've done these types of repairs before, and also welded on new fittings. I prefer to TIG in a root pass to seal everything up, then cap it with MIG.

[@buckinthetree1233]

I've never repaired a cylinder like this. The single action cylinders I'm accustomed to have a piston seal. One side of the piston is wet and the opposite is dry. At the dry end of the cylinder there is an air breather to allow air to flow in and out as the cylinder extends and retracts.

[@aerialrescuesolutions3277]

Excellent info there Jimmy Palmer.

[@brucetuckey7909]

Josh, working in the agriculture repair for the last 35 years that kind of cylinder is very common. They are used on combines to lift the head. The cylinders are built for the rod seal to hold the oil the ram is the piston. They haven't changed since the first combines were built. Good repair job on the cylinder. You need a ground clamp made like CEE made.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I've just started doing hydraulic work, and have never seen one like this. Even in 20+ years of working with railroad MOW equipment, I have never seen this. Was a fun learning experience

[@johnbaskett2309]

@@TopperMachineLLC The first one I ran across I also was totally confused.

[@GilmerJohn]

I like your reference to CEE (from Oz). When working on BIG cylinders he would find a center (if need be he would weld more steel onto the end) and create a center. He would turn the entire cylinder using a live center and a 4 jaw. Then he could machine "landings" for a steady rest. It seems like a lot of trouble but he has it down to a well practiced science.

[@sascandave]

Shouldn't you have pulled the rod to full ext before welding and melting the seals ?

[@jonka1]

@@sascandave There are no seals on that end of the rod. All explained in the video.

[@nathanweese3812]

CEE (the Ausie) made a pretty nifty earth clamp that spins with the work. You weld it on with a sacrificial nut, its just 2 brass discs that slide by each other while keeping ground. Just the tool for welding cylinders. -Another helpful message from Captain Hindsight! Jumping in with unsolicited help long after the work is done.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I have seen it. And it wouldn't help with the traction problem on the light cylinder.

[@phil6465]

@@TopperMachineLLC You maybe need an adjustable third wheel set up to apply pressure from the top?

[@kasuha]

@@TopperMachineLLC Wouldn't it really? I don't think it would apply a lot of drag if you welded it on the center axis, all it would apply would be the friction between the rotating and stationary ring, not the weight of the whole cable as with your clamp.

[@lancer2204]

@@TopperMachineLLC Maybe a wrap of 40 grit emery cloth around the cylinder where the drive wheel runs?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

@@lancer2204 This is a great idea, thanks.

[@carlwestcott5246]

When parting off the end of the cylinder, watch for a little puff of smoke. That indicates that the tool has reached the oil in the bore, and the cut is completed. Your camera did a nice job of capturing that on this job.

[@btrswt35]

It sounds like you have experience in this. Wouldnt it make sense to cut into the center of the weld and not worry about trying to measure the thickness of the endcap? Just seems like a waste of time that may not be very precise.

[@steveh8724]

Thanks for pointing that out--another great comment, I totally missed that watching the first time. Sure enough between 12:05 and 12:09, the magic smoke began to escape. But in this context, that's a good thing...

[@donferguson2495]

You can also look for a black line to appear when you get to the bottom of the weld. I have been machining replacement rods and retubing hydraulic cylinders for over 30 years.

[@rsz90182]

@@steveh8724 It is the smoke that occurs when the hydraulic fluid hits the hot carbide tip. The cutting-edge is so thankful and happy that it is getting cooled off !!

[@gregorywright2798]

Cutting edge engineering in Australia has a video about a rotating ground that welded too the object and as the object turns the ground stays Stationary. He Maked it in his shop. Great Video.

[@joandar1]

Gregory I was going to mention that but you made the comment long before I was recomended this video by YT. John, Australia.

[@jamesdanstudios5944]

pls whats the title of the video so i can go watch it. Thanks

[@sammorris2721]

Ah nice to see someone else who sees "Un-servicable" and hears "Yes- Take it apart and fix it"! Just like "no user serviceable parts inside" The first time. Totally subbed.

[@supernova743]

The difference between serviceable and not is usually cost. We routinely have our cylinders repacked. Each usually saves a couple hundred dollars over a new replacement. However we had one recently that rebuilding would cost more. That one ended up in the scrap metal bin.

[@sammorris2721]

@@supernova743 Yeah, that's a perfectly sound reason.

[@markmilam3152]

Yes I ran into those cylinders on JCB equipment and I did the same thing. Without a lathe it is impossible! I'm glad to see you passing on this valuable information to the world. Thank you

[@kalybnielsen4183]

I was asked to rebuild a cylinder a few months ago, a damaged one off a log splitter. The ram was bent and the gland was damaged, the guy took it to the hydraulics place here, they told him it wasn't rebuildable and they could build a new one for $200/hr and it was 4 hours minimum, a new ram about the same style was about $300, he had me take it, I honed with a cylinder hone, had a different shop make me a new ram and they gave me the seals I needed, it was $89 for the ram. I told the guy it sounded like the hydraulic place was trying to get a bonus or something, they have been really slow. This was great, I like watching different machining operations and skills of other workers

[@davidsteer8142]

When you think about it, this design is the cheapest & simplest way to get the job done if you only need hydraulic pressure to push one way. Only one pressure seal and a scraper ring to critically fit, plus only one hose at the same end to worry about. The cylinder bore / piston face gap is adequate to allow fluid to flow around and do its job extending, but tight enough to keep the actuator relatively straight. You could bury the end that he cut n welded into a hard to reach area with no hoses or fittings to attach. Brilliant design I say.

[@davidtyndall8880]

Over 50 years ago, I worked as a hydraulic mechanic. As I was taught, this is what is called a "displacement" cylinder. This is a "power in one direction only" cylinder. Oil is pumped in under pressure and the "rod" is displaced. Everyone in America has interacted with one of these cylinders at one time or another. Many elevators in a building of less than 7 or 8 stories have elevators that are raised by one of these hydraulic cylinders, where a pump lifts the elevator and gravity brings it back down. A hydraulic bottle jack, floor jacks and two and four post car lifts use these type of hydraulic cylinders. Just a little fun info.

[@darrenbrown4234]

Here in the Uk we would refer to that type of ram as a single acting displacement cylinder. You can tell this by there only being one hydraulic port on the rod end of the cylinder and no vent in the base end. Fully welded cylinders are not common but not something that I’ve not seen before especially on agg equipment. They are deemed disposable and cheap but as you have shown can be repaired if needed. My only criticism would be the welding on that base eye, I would have liked to see a root pass and a minimum of one cap pass, both in one continuous weld ie no stop starts.

[@aresler6085]

As soon as I saw this cylinder I was reminded of a hydraulic elevator that was being installed at my school many years ago: as the installer explained, and as the comment by Mr Palmer above also explains, there is no piston head seal; just the rod seal. Works by displacing the volume of the rod, again as explained above. In an elevator this design eliminates the need to worry about the inside finish of the cylinder, since it's not a sealing surface. The rod does have to be a good finish, but it's easier to get a good finish on the outside of a long rod.

[@ilane9]

We have big Hydraulics company in israel, and this is what we call a disposable plunger cylinder. There shouldn't be a seal on the piston and in this case it just forms as a stopper so the rod won't blow out when it's pressurized . Hydraulically speaking the force is generating only on the surface of the rod (since the pressure is generated equally in all sides) and not on the surface of the inner diameter of the cylinder (since there are no seals) . They usually make this kind to save space and gain much more stroke on the expense of force. By the way you should check that there are no scratches on the rod and not just on the seals prior to assembling. and regarding the cap , if there is no centering it is advisable to make one , it will prevent from the weld material to slip inside (later on the piston itself can scrape it from the inside while work is being done which can cause more damage) . Good work other than that!

[@chrispedersen5578]

I like seeing creative things like this. They always say you can't do things, but often times you can. I fixed a driveshaft everyone said was unserviceable. The new one was about $1500. so I made my way work. It ran smoothly and quietly when I was done.

[@leeklemetti1887]

I repaired the four hydraulic cylinders on my 30 ft Winnebago Sightseer. These cylinders are double acting. They leaked badly on lifting the leveler jacks back up. The rod end was down and the seals were shot. I loaded the cylinder into my 10X24 Logan lathe and mounted an angle grinder on the tool post, a vertical cutoff blade. I put the lathe in back gear and ground out a .250 thick wall. That separated the rod end with the bad seal. My neighbor has a Miller MIG welder to put the ends back on. A $15.00 wiper and seal on each fully repaired the cylinders.

[@BjornV78]

The piston rod was fully compressed so that the piston was very close to the welding spot, this can kill the seal of the piston as well as burn the grease/oil around the piston. With the piston half way into the cylinder, or fully extended, the most vulnerable area is safe during welding. Also, it's recommended to degrease the end cap and the cilinder inside near the area of the welding spot, at 19:12 you see the oil coming through the gap between the cilinder and the end cap, this can effect the quality of your welds. Other then that, a very nice rebuild.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

No piston. Just a plate on the end. No seal to worry about at all, safer to weld this way to eliminate potential spatter on rod. Been in service since with no failure. As far as oil, it was degreased thoroughly off camera.

[@stevehildreth1934]

Having spent some time as a hydraulic mechanic, I recognize your seal picks. I got a bunch from my dentist too!

[@jasonphtl1017]

good job, we are manufacturer of hydraulic cylinder in China ,you were doing right way ,

[@ericmcrae7758]

Have you seen the cyclinder CEE is working on at the moment? yours is its baby cousin uses the same sequence of operations to make the repair.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Yeah, he is copying my work. Lol.

[@hashirebo1922]

its just amazing to know that griffin is a good teacher thanks

[@rogerwhiting9310]

Nice to see a craftsman doing quality work

[@mattbash5372]

Hydraulic seal removal spoon set makes the removal and replacement of the seals much easier (easier is a relative term with some jobs). They're more robust than the small metal picks for prying. Also help with getting metal retention rings in place on reinstalls where metal retainer rings are used. Cheap and good to have around for hydraulic rebuilds or any o ring job. Good job on the rebuild!

[@mijodo2008]

Great Video Josh, As a Pipe welder of more years than I can count. On your welding Motorised Welding Jig, try building a Bail Arm that hinges over the top of the cylinder and clamps down with two bearing wheels to allow easy rotation whilst powering on. Make a fine adjustment screw, so you can push the pipe onto the alignment wheel by eliminating any slip, no matter how light the pipe. I have built many similar devices when I built my Pipe Welding Engineering Workshops. I like your Workplace Methodology. Top job Mate. Cheers from Michael. Australia

[@WesB1972]

As an old school apprentice trained machinist it does my heart good to see that shaper in the background. I love to do shaper jobs,big blue chips!!!

[@bostedtap8399]

Great trick on using the Ultrasonic gauge to find end cap thickness 👍👌. Thanks for sharing 👍

[@bulletproofpepper2]

The ground clamp thing CEE has a video on making a swivel ground. The cylinder is a single acting type, farmers love them. The rod pushed out with hydraulic flow, weight pushes it back in when the valves release back to tank. the UTI is great tool. Thanks for sharing, great work.

[@JimNichols]

You have a KZbin channel and I don't so doing your channel your way is important. Kind, thoughtful input from your viewers makes a better channel, more viewers and more income for you. Lighting was all over the place in the video and I realize the difficulty in lighting a scene in a shop with moving reflective surfaces. Also wear one of your T-shirts in the videos....:) constructive criticism aside thank you for the videos and the time it takes to conceive, create, edit and UL these for us to watch. Great machine work too sir.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Thank you. Yes, it's difficult. I switched cameras for some of it and it didn't like the lighting. I have ordered some of my shirts and will be working on improvement.

[@marka7831]

I like how you went from using precision picks to the snap-on screwdriver when you stopped kidding around!

[@Hydraulic67]

There are a lot of comments about the type of cylinder this is, and obviously it’s a single acting. This means it is either power out, or lower in, but it doesn’t get powered both directions. Lots of single acting cylinders start life as standard double acting, meaning they can power in and out, the port on one end can have a breather installed and the other end gets the oil. If it’s double acting it doesn’t matter which end is which, that is determined by the need of the application. This particular design doesn’t have a piston per se, it works on displacement. As the area of the rod is larger than half the barrel area, when the oil is pressurized, it will naturally force the rod to extend. There is some type of piston/washer/retaining device where the piston goes to prevent the cylinder rod from blowing out of the cylinder. For a common use of this type of cylinder, look at a forklift, lots of the mast cylinders only have rod packing as there isn’t a sealed piston. These cylinders usually have a piston with wear rings, or brass, so as to give lateral support when fully extended. These are single acting displacement cylinders, that’s what he has in this video. There are mast cylinders that have pistons with piston seals, the draw back to those is once they start to leak the cylinder has to be completely disassembled in order to get to the piston seal. Most mast cylinders don’t have that type piston, hence when it leaks it can be resealed in place, with some TLC and some foul words. Dump trucks also use single acting cylinders with no piston seals, their cylinders are telescopic, meaning it has multiple sections to the rod so it can tilt the bed high enough to unload (dump) the bed and it’s contents. These are more common than most people think, it’s just the design that changes, but there are lots of these out there. As far as it being welded together, this is done for one, or more, reasons. First reason is to get people to purchase new as most people don’t realize men like this can still fix them. Secondly, it’s done for safety, some Mfgs don’t want people working on it and use this to prevent them from trying, although this is normally done in more extreme applications where most people SHOULDN’T try to fix it. I hope this helps explain why there’s no piston seal and why a cylinder would even be made this way. It all comes down to money and safety, but mainly money. Even if it’s not the cheapest to make, it does help control who gets it fixed and who gets to buy new, or in my opinion, who gets screwed!

[@leesroom]

Next time extend the ram and hang a greased heavy timing chain or long tow chain drape across it as a counter weight to stop the knocking on the shaft. By sliding it in or out, you can find the "sweet spot" to stop the knocking of the ram. Another thing you can try for your rotating setup is to open the wheels a little wider so the tube is getting pressure from the sides as much as possible without falling through, then it is a simple as adding a weight on top. You can use greased heavy chain around the cylinder with a shackle to keep it from falling off. Worst that will happen would be a little paint gets rubbed off if there isn't enough grease on the chain.

[@curtismuma1931]

I did the same thing, to my cub cadet Power steering clyd. I just used die grinder wheel

[@kevinlloyd2707]

Well i thought i was the only one crazy. i just reworked 2 of these a few weeks ago. i built a new piston and installed new rings/seal that didn't exist before! much better performance

[@rajugeorge7771]

Good job sir, i have experience in the hydraulic services jobs

[@xenaguy01]

14:30 Kurtis of CCE did one just like this recently. Knocked when spun in the vise, no step on the end cap, and no seal on the piston end.

[@haroldsprenkle4173]

Hey I have to tell a story about one of the more difficult hydraulic troubleshooting experiences I have had. Log skidder, if you turned too far to the left it wouldn't straighten up unless you ran into something and moved it towards straight. Owner first brought me orbital, popped it apart, popped it apart, check ball springs getting lax, restreached them and reassembled. He put back together. Same problem. So I went to woods with him with air and blow nozzle to do some pressure checking. Left side steering cylinder was bulged on end opposite gland end. Piston ring cylinder. Took a lot of pressure to bulge that cylinder. Got a piece of dom tubing and remade cylinder.

[@larrysperling8801]

josh that type of cylinder is called a displacement style. it is single acting only. it is very common on forklift lift cylinders, they usually have a wear ring on the piston to protect the bore. thats a cheap throwaway unit you saved. nice job.

[@m16ty]

Yes, they usually have a wear ring to run on the inside of the cylinder walls. It's not so much to protect the bore (nothing seals on the bore anyway), it's to keep the rod centered and not get out of alignment with the end cap. With the slop that one had, I'm surprised it didn't bind in the end cap bore. I'm sure it's hard on the seals. You are right about that being a cheap "throw away" cylinder, and almost all welded cylinders are. They don't want to go through the trouble and expense to machine the end cap or cylinder bore to make a removable end cap, so they just weld it.

[@raymacklures5899]

I use to recondition old welded Moore double action Ag hydraulic cylinders who then became BTR hydraulics and is now Berensens Hydraulics I would knock them over in 20 minutes they are great no threads to work lose, strip, rust up or cross thread no gland O ring to fail.dont get me started on those wire wound glands. In the field I would use a 4" grinder took 10 minutes longer all you needed was a seal kit, vise, grinder and a welder. All steel construction so modding the clevis was never an issue. Loved them and cheap too

[@tomredmond]

Got to love those proprietary parts. Had a machine with 2 cylinders working in tandem for sled movement. One cylinder split the tube, no replacement available as it was a short run of parts to build only 3 machines of this type. Had to find a shop to build one from scratch. Not easy to do for a 12 foot long cylinder tube. OEM of machine was of no help.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

It's getting way more common to see odd stuff. And even more common that the OEM won't sell parts, just new equipment. Keeps guys like me in business.

[@gillesdelbreil5414]

Well done, it is good to see how you could manage to offer a new life to this cylinder. As an old french engineer I really appreciate how you take care of all details like rotation speed, angular position marking, electric connection making sure that current is not flowing through an undesired path. Despite the fact that you could not weld continuously the result looks pretty good. Congratulation for this good job.

[@Dimythios]

Anything can be repaired. You did a great job.

[@johnpope4464]

Change my mind now that I've seen all whole thing you .are the best choice in cutting that end off

[@swanvalleymachineshop]

Fluid displacement cylinder you have there Josh . Some air over hyd brake cylinders work a similar way way like the CA15's .

[@gwharton68]

Where there is a will, there is a way. Great job.

[@fredygump5578]

I came for the machining, stayed to figure out what that infernal knocking sound was!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Lol. It confused me too. Glad it wasn't the lathe. That was my first thought.

[@jerrypeal653]

Used to have to do those all the time thankfully not difficult at all .

[@sneakysnake109]

What i would do for the traction problem is use a round belt about the length of an old car fan belt. Place the belt over the tube. At the botton of the belt hang a small pully attached to a weight of the necessary size. Bingo! No complicated spring wheels or anything to get in your way when traction isn't a problem. Thanks for a great video. Really enjoy your channel

[@diyVT]

The spindle bore in that lathe is awesome.

[@athhud]

The last one I did just got hacked off with a bandsaw and has been running perfectly for the last 2yrs... I did do a heavy bevel at the cut and tig welded it back together. You don’t need a piston seal on this type of cylinder. The rod is the piston...

[@1607rosie]

Josh on your shop made cylinder rotator youbcould add a third roller that goes over the top that's spring loaded to add the needed down pressure. Just a suggestion.

[@haroldsprenkle4173]

Got it done. I have cut many driveshafts and cylinder ends through the years. 90 degree tool into center of weld, stop and look often, or run slow so you can see while it is turning. Frankly I have removed driveshaft and cylinder ends with a chop saw, rude and crude and be careful. Never trusted a wire feed for this sort of thing. I am a root pass with 6011 and then 7018 guy. Fixed a bunch of Ford tractor power steering cylinders, last welded together I did was a trencher-hoe backfill blade cylinder. Then there are the cylinders that don't seem like they would come apart but they do. In the last 44 years I have seen things. Ha

[@m16ty]

I repaired a cylinder like this back before I had a lathe. Just used a cutting wheel to remove the end cap. It wasn't all that straight of a cut but didn't matter, just index it before rewelding.

[@workingovertime4429]

The ones I did a few months ago were from a well known tractor manufacturer so they do come in from time to time but I think your video explains it better than mine

[@JerryDoe]

Next time pull the rod out when welding the bottom part of the cylinder, the heat generated from welding will fuck up the seal on the rod. Since you have the tools, you can also modify the bottom part to be serviceable, make a thick ring with +/- 6 or 8 threaded holes that fits over the cylinder, machine a cover plate with eye and matching holes, depending the thickness of the cylinder cut out a groove for an o-ring in the bottom plate with eye socket. use screw head cap bolts of strength 8.8 (not stronger). I'm an engineer in hydraulics, i reseal mostly 20 ton cylinders (that's the weight of the cylinder not lifting force) but sometimes small ones for palfingers.

[@djquick]

Did you watch the video? There’s no seal on the rod.

[@JerryDoe]

@@djquick my bad i just assumed, seal-less bottom parts are usually the design of slow hydraulics like hydraulic jacks.

[@dougvanallen2212]

Hey Josh we must have the same dentist he always has a few old tools after my check up no more suckers or treats

[@dsloop3907]

I took a 4 inch 3 foot long outrigger cylinder that the gland end was crossthreaded ( very fine threads) rebuilt it, welded the end on and made a wrecker boom lift cylinder. Used a 12 v emergency pump from a high ranger.

[@burtcmcalpine]

on the rollers for the turner. A few option, spray adhesive, glue on emery cloth, or glue on something like an old bicycle tube.

[@mike9500]

in the Maries, we used 1/8" brass rod and hammered a flatish end so it would help dig out the seals but not bend up liek those picks are.

[@jacquespoirier9071]

it is common on single acting cylinders, this is widely used on in ground vehicule hoists.

[@ToddKing]

When welding on the cap why didn't you extend the rod to get the internal seal away from the heat? That is what I was taught to do.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I explained that there were no piston seals.

[@ToddKing]

@@TopperMachineLLC I guess I heard you say that but that didn't compute in my brain and I saw a black band that look like a seal of some sort and I must have blocked out you saying that there was no seal. Don't know how I did that with all the banging. Sorry about that. 😳

[@TopperMachineLLC]

@@ToddKing it was an odd cylinder. Easy to forget that it didn't have piston seals.

[@JoeL-re1dc]

You could add a downward pull , spring loaded, belt and pulley arrangement to your roller stand to give you the friction needed on the light stuff.

[@LifcoHydraulics]

Love DIY's and how anything can be done if you need it to! Thanks for the video

[@johnlee8231]

Had the roll cage in a drag car certified and they use the same kind of ultrasonic device to check the tube wall thickness to make sure they were in spec.

[@alvarogeorgenobregeorge69]

Greetings from Brazil everyone.

[@garymurt9112]

For your traction problem on light weight stuff. Try tapeing heavy stuff around the middle or magnetic, possibly a spring loaded wheel

[@kalybnielsen4183]

Those flexible ankle weights, 2 x 5 pounders

[@jamesmorrison1884]

Nice work good video. Have a good day

[@vaderdudenator1]

Should the rod have been extended more when welding to keep the seals away from the welding heat?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

You obviously didn't watch the video. I explained that there were no seals on the piston.

[@thalx]

Displacement cylinder. Entire rod bathed in oil when retracted. Less rust for both rod and cylinder - cylinder inside wall never sees air, everything stays cleaner. Less seals to manage and rebuild.

[@AWDJRforYouTube]

Josh, do yourself a favor and fab a cover for that chain drive on the positioner. If your open welding jacket ever gets caught in there while welding, it will tug at your heartstrings...DON'T ASK ME HOW I KNOW LOL!👍👍

[@danielpullum1907]

The sound was good at normal distance. Another machinist I watch had a similar situation. The piston was loose in it. I would have run a center in there to keep that cap in place. That must be a real low pressure application if one lousy little seal is the "piston".

[@FisherCatProductions]

I've alway admired machine work, but never had the time to take up one more trade. A pleasure watching you work! Most impressive. I love the challenge of finding ways to make things work that other's say is "impossible". Cheers!

[@BobOBob]

Build a slip ring for between the wheels and hang weights from that. Slip ring could be something like large diameter roller bearing that isn't quite worn out, with some sort of grippy rubber applied inside like a tire inside-out. Then a ratchet strap on the outer race holds a basket below for weights. If necessary a couple of band clamps on the cylinder would force the "wheel" to stay in line lengthwise. A completely different option is another set of wheels, basically like what you have now, but pressing down from the top.

[@TheAlmightyBob04]

I think if you had a long length or stripped twisted copper wire, you could have ground the paint off a section of the cylinder. Wrap the wires around the cylinder and put your ground clamp on that. There would have been very little friction and you would still be able to use your rollers. Even better if you use the sand paper thought from a previous comment.

[@sleep1704-p5x]

how does the cyl work without seal on the piston, i guess it would be more of a shock absorber by haveng oil on both sides with calculated leakage around to guide speed of piston other wise to act as hyd cyl would need two oil ports and seal on piston end

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

Good job again. I always enjoy your videos. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.

[@smalltownmachineshop6860]

Very nice repair, they use those cylinders in power up but not down dump trailers around here a lot. I fix them the same way you did but have to cut the end in the steady as the through holes on my ancient lathes are on the smaller end

[@rustynail4676]

The grounding issue is no problem.you need a ground rotator easy thing to build and eealy saves your leads

[@lomax6620]

My old case tractor has a power steering cylinder that cant be taken apart.. I wasnt paying no $1200.00 for a new one. I done the same thing you did.. Easy fix..

[@n.b.p.davenport7066]

Growing up in the construction field I have done more than my share of that kind of repair

[@colinmuskett5465]

I like the new lathe.

[@allenhunt3070]

Josh, the enjoyment factor when way up when that knocking started! Just the anticipation of what could be wrong in there. Nice video!

[@DavoShed]

Very interesting . I did my apprenticeship 40 years ago with a company that manufactured hydraulics and pneumatics. Nothing we made pushed the Ram out of the cylinder without a seal on the piston. Maybe it was invented after I moved into IT ;) We were taught the force generated by the cylinder was calculated by the pressure of the oil on the surface area of the piston. I wonder if this cylinder generated a larger force as it’s pushing on the surface area of the rod itself? Although this would be less and less as the rod extends past the gland seal. I guess it can’t be fully extended as the force would decrease to zero. Gets stranger the more I think about it.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I was quite confused also. But, I guess it's a very common cylinder design. I'm guessing it's not berry powerful as you really only have the rod surface area. The little plate on the end just kept it from pushing out and I guess it doesn't add to the push. Fun job either way.

[@DavoShed]

@@TopperMachineLLC Glad your having fun! I’m getting back into machining as a hobby now I’m retired. I love saving stuff that was otherwise heading for the junk pile.

[@deconteesawyer5758]

I"m inclined to believe the company you worked for was quite liberal with using the term "apprenticeship".

[@DavoShed]

@@deconteesawyer5758 Not sure why you would make that sweeping statement. The larger the diameter of the piston the more force is generated. The out stroke generates more force that the return stroke as there is less surface area on the piston as the rod takes up some of the surface area. I have never thought about what happens when there is no piston. That thing on the rod is just a guide,

[@deconteesawyer5758]

@@DavoShed "I have never thought about..." That is what formal apprenticeships are designed to overcome, requiring formal classroom training covering the field as well as the company specific knowledge/skills. The idea you expressed that single acting cylinders were novel or something new to you belie classroom training that would have included both the basic principles of hydraulics/pneumatics and the common applications, a very prominent one being the single acting cylinder. I am more inclined to view such a situation as having completed a company entry level probationary period than as having completed an apprenticeship.

[@jamesward5721]

The initial knock had me puzzled - something inside is borked. I was looking to see if the cutter was touching - nope. So the piston inside is so loose it's not right. Back when we contracted, we'd to do these using just a grinder to get the end-cap off - and a stick-welder to get it back together - but they got done. Easing the new seals in was always fun,, as was making sure we didn't melt them with the welder. :-) Hoik the rod out as far as it will go so it stays cool, slice off the end, pull out the rod, fit new seals & packers, weld the end back on. No lathes got bothered - and they all worked just fine.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

This is actually correct. The knocking was due to the head seals being bad. There was no piston or seals.

[@davidschwartz5127]

I came across a very high-pressure hydraulic cylinder on a rolling mill's roll balance system, similar to your cylinder as there were no seals on the piston either, which I thought was very strange however, the designed clearance tolerance between the piston and cylinder wall was so tight that under normal operations 4,000 psi it did not leak. After much to do, we took the pistons out to check them. They would not move, I had to use a hydraulic porta power pump's pressure to jacked them apart, which was totally unnecessary since when I removed the top caps the problem was actually solved The actual problem was the cylinder had been previously been subjected to 5 X rated pressure in a PLC programming startup error and fluid had bypassed the piston under the extreme pressure then the mill's roll stack did not have enough weight and downforce to push the fluid back around the piston. It was a tuff problem to pinpoint, and a quite a learning experience as to why the roll stack suddenly would no longer close.

[@kentuckytrapper780]

Great video Josh, keep'um coming..

[@Daniel-np8zo]

Get you some seal spoons ( look kinda like flattened picks) i find those best for re-sealing cylinders.

[@merlepatterson]

It's loose because it's a one-way displacement ram and the incoming fluid flows around the piston end to the back side of the ram. I'm assuming it's a gravity (possibly spring) return system that it's used on.

[@tonythompson7448]

Yeah Josh just like Bruce said watch cee an his swivel ground clamps he makes you won't regret it an it will add to your design of your roller

[@ChrisMcCutcheon-wj2pp]

Use to fix them quite often, most of them leak from the weld, tacks have to be feathered to pass x-ray, goes back to if u want it done right, do it yourself

[@ssboot5663]

You remind me of myself.... Welding stinger just above the bare hands while tacking stuff together! One way cylinder with only seals on the end gland(:

[@theoriginalDirtybill]

you need more ultrasonic gel goo stuff on your transducer. we use those for testing pipe and pressure vessel wall thickness. a smaller head helps on smaller diameter pipes.

[@victorbrown3032]

Curious… I didn’t hear you mention finding out what the non piston arrangement was about…??

[@jimfarmer7811]

Sometimes these cylinders are built with a snap ring groove and pilot on the end of the rod. You can disassemble them by reaching through the port with a pick to dislodge the snap ring. Once the ring is out of the groove the rod can be removed and the seal replaced. To reassemble, place the snap ring on the small pilot, install the tube, and reset the snap ring using a pick through the port. It seems cumbersome but I've seen this process done many times.

[@bloodknottrevelian3396]

If you had centre drilled the eye on the end plate you could have used your live centre in the tail stock when cutting the plate off of the barrel and you could then have used the live centre again to position the plate to tack the plate back on before removing the barrel to weld up properly.

[@djisydneyaustralia]

I had a Saab convertible that had an hydraulicly activated roof, one cylinder was leaking rendering it inoperable. It was a non serviceable part and a hydraulic shop said throw away so I went back to work and put it in the lathe and cut the end off. A few scabbed orings from oxygen regulators and made a new cap, and it worked hundreds of times until the car was written off in a crash. Non serviceable means "hold my coolaid ,I don't drink alcohol"

[@CJ-ty8sv]

What you need to build onto the power roller side of you roller stands is a 3rd adjustable roller to apply down force to what ever is in the rollers to give more traction on the drive roller. You can make it hinge open too so that it can be out of the way when not needed or when trying to load larger heavier parts so you can still lower them straight down rather than having to feed them in from the side like you would if it couldn't flip open. Thank of a flip open style lathe steady rest.

[@JimMackHeavyEquipment]

It is a single acting ram cylinder, that is why it did not have any piston seals and only had one oil port. The only seals are the wiper seal and oil seal at the end where the ram extends out of the cylinder.

[@davidholder3207]

What was the reason for the piston having no seals?

[@riotwarrior]

Looks like a factory cylinder and if it's available it's likely way more spendy that what it was to do this repair. These are considered disposable, however as you found it is repairable. It may be that there is no longer a direct replacement for this and as such the repair is the only viable method of fixing the machine. Niecly done!

[@BruceBoschek]

Nice job on an interesting cylinder. Kurtis at CEE made a rotating ground clamp. It would be ideal for your use there. Cheers, and thanks for the video!

[@wallbawden5511]

he also has a video of how to make one start to finish

[@TopperMachineLLC]

@@wallbawden5511 he always releases a video of a job I have set up and running, the day before I start shooting. I think he knows I am onto him.

[@mikesfarmmikesfarm3977]

when rotating light cylinders you might try hanging a preload in the middle of light cylinder ? sandbags on a light rope in middle of cylinder loose so rope does not grab cylinder.