Well There's Your Problem | Episode 22: Tenerife Airport Disaster

[@louiedelk592]

As someone who found this podcast like two months ago and is watching the episodes very out of order, it feels like digging up gold to have found the first appearance of the God Damned News.

[@scout8145]

Seconded, from 9 months in the future!

[@JulianFortune]

Either of y’all know how the tacoma narrows gag started?

[@Tzilandi]

@@JulianFortune I think the Tacoma Narrows bridge is a subject that's been covered so often by so many people when discussing engineering, the joke is that they don't actually need to talk about it, because everyone and their mother has already covered it.

[@racheleast688]

@@JulianFortune it does eventually get covered and the gag episode changes.

[@cheekyninja8983]

So glad to finally have had the joke explained. Ive been binging every episode for months and consistently have the thought "man are they just putting it off? Whats up with that?" Then occasionally hearing a different one and being even more confused

[@katamariroller2837]

Hey, I´m a Spanish fan of the channel. "Hucha" means piggy bank, as in the piggy bank you give children. The place called "Churrasquería" north of the airport is not about churros, it´s a grilled meat restaurant (churrasco means grilled meat). So I guess the lady was having some damn good grilled meat while the passengers in the plane she was in got grilled as well. Don´t worry about alienating Spanish speakers. Only fascism and taking serious things seriously can do that to us.

[@loplopthebird1860]

Ya somos dos :DDDD

[@MaikMakensi]

I probably should get mad, but it's siesta time and that comes first

[@do_care919]

I still remember how my student exchange hosts in Poland once said Spain was all about "Siesta, Fiesta y mañana". I'm sitll simultaneously triggered and like "well, they kinda have a point"

[@MaikMakensi]

@@do_care919 Them not mentioning the cuisine superiority of the paella and the tortilla is a big trigger for me

[@do_care919]

@@MaikMakensi of course, my immediate response to that was sth in the lines of "well, at least my national cuisine doesn't have cabbage in every freaking thing." Because for some stupid reason, Poland uses cabbage even on its kebabs

[@Grimpy970]

In future aircraft videos, I think it's worth mentioning a human factor that most people are unaware of. Most airline staff are only paid for the time they're physically in flight. Taxiway frustration isn't just being stuck in traffic, it's unpaid labor. This pressure causes people, especially seasoned veterans, to lose their cool and make decisions based on years of frustration and disgruntlement. Small, understanable acts of rebellion or 'short' communication can contribute to a disaster. Most accidents and disasters are not caused by a single fault or incident, but multiple. This human factor, which is coincidentally a labor issue (which you guys looove talking about) is routinely stripping away one layer of safety every single day, at airports across the world. Thank you for coming to my ted talk

[@ClaudiaNW]

"Nanny had an unexpected gift for languages; she could be comprehensibly incompetent in a new one within an hour or two. What she spoke was one step away from gibberish but it was authentically foreign gibberish." Terry Pratchett, about Alice

[@johnbrearley9791]

Episode 22: In which we learn that Liam hates the Dutch because he lost money betting on them in the 2010 FIFA World Cup Final, also colonialism.

[@grizzly3793]

As a Dutch, I think those are two very valid reasons to hate us.

[@melissametivier4]

I live in Western Michigan, where people say things like, "If you ain't Dutch, you ain't much!" and think Betsy DeVos's ideas are great.

[@notthedroidsyourelookingfo4026]

Didn't he misidentify the match? It sounded more like the 2006 one with Zidane vs Materazzi.

[@zeitgeistx5239]

@@melissametivier4 NW Iowa is entirely Dutch. But I have a feeling your Michigan Dutch might just be the English pronunciation of Deutsche.

[@melissametivier4]

@@zeitgeistx5239 No, no, they're Dutch. Netherlands Dutch.

[@asimplekraken1318]

The Ice-breaker should paint the silhouette of the navy cruiser on the side

[@jeova0sanctus0unus]

I mean that counts as a Kill, right?

[@Ometecuhtli]

@@jeova0sanctus0unus Still counts as one

[@embersaffron5522]

I wonder if that's the first cruise ship to have a confirmed kill

[@kaustubhillindala2643]

@@embersaffron5522 Olympic sunk a submarine

[@therealuncleowen2588]

The Stockholm sunk the Andrea Doria. No word if a silhouette of the ship was painted on the side of the Stockholm.

[@EyeMWing]

"The goddamned news" is a good name for the segment

[@justanothersam5708]

Culture man see I you of are ahh a too

[@justinokraski3796]

what is that a reference to?

[@cashnelson2306]

@@justinokraski3796 it;s a reference to goddamn current events

[@synthgal1090]

I've got some god damn news for you

[@weatheranddarkness]

I think Ros agreed

[@kwarra-an]

As a South African, genuinely enjoying all the anti-Dutch sentiment

[@andrevanderleeuw8070]

We deserve it.

[@arkadeepkundu4729]

Aren't South Africans, especially Afrikaners, basically the Dutch equivalent of British Australians? Like how people make fun of Australians for being basically British Texans.

[@kwarra-an]

@@arkadeepkundu4729 I'd argue it's basically just the hardcore Afrikaners that like the Dutch, and just the hardcore English South Africans that like the Brits. They're v obnoxious

[@TheBananenbeer]

@@arkadeepkundu4729 well we did do similar racisms in those colonies

[@loplopthebird1860]

But dutch people are bike-friendly :-(

[@Raptor747]

Some explanations about some of the major points you guys didn't really catch on to or know about: 1) The reason they built an airport at high altitude, in a place that has a tendency for fog, is because on small islands, you have very little choice at all for locations to build a runway. Having a long enough, flat-enough runway with acceptable wind characteristics is far, far more important than visibility, since instrument landing systems exist (and did back then), meaning that landing a plane in heavy fog would be tricky but feasible, which is far better than literally having nowhere to land the plane at all. For all the people that died in the ensuing tragedy, the alternative to not having the Tenerife Airport would be to have all of the planes land and unload passengers into an airport that had a nasty bomb problem. 2) The reason the planes had to taxi all the way down the runway just to take off in the other direction is, as you guessed, the wind. You actually WANT a headwind when taking off or landing, because it means that you can go slower while still achieving adequate lift for flight (which is critical in either landing or takeoff); taking off with a tailwind means that you need to go faster and use up more of the runway, which also makes it harder to slow down if there's a problem with the takeoff. 3) The whole American 747 not getting off at taxiway three was a combination of factors: the thick fog made it hard to see; the sharp turn combined with the unfamiliar airport led the pilots to believe that that turn couldn't be the one they were being told to use, and they had to make that decision in the span of a few seconds. They didn't want to risk taking a wrong turn and getting stuck in the back of a massive traffic jam with no way to see where they were. Lastly, it just plain made sense to use the taxiway entrance that they could easily identify and use to get off the runway, especially since no sane or remotely competent pilot would take off down a runway where they (and the tower) had no visibility but KNEW there was a fully-loaded 747 following them down it. It would be suicidal. 4) Ultimately, despite all of the incredibly difficult conditions and lacking equipment, the key reason that the accident occurred is because the KLM captain--over the objections of his own co-pilot--decided to take off with zero visibility down a runway there was a good chance still had a big plane on it...without even trying to get clearance first. There were plenty of reasons why he did this, but none of them come close to excusing the sheer recklessness, insanity, irresponsibility, and pointlessness of him doing it. 5) It is, or at least was, routine for air traffic controllers to give clearance for a ROUTE before a plane takes off or gets clearance to takeoff. Getting takeoff clearance is explicit and differently worded. It's also worth noting that it truly takes a suicidally reckless idiot to firewall the throttles of his fully-loaded 747 in zero-visibility conditions down a runway that they aren't sure doesn't STILL HAVE ANOTHER 747 ON IT. Especially when getting clarification would have taken another 30 seconds at most. The fact that the KLM captain just proclaimed "We're going" without having actually received explicit takeoff clearance or having his own co-pilot say that they had clearance really says it all. The KLM captain DECIDED that they were going, rather than the entire principle of takeoff clearance: it's something you ask for, and are explicitly granted by another. If the pilot declares that they're going, that pilot has no business flying anything. 6) One of the major changes that came from this accident was a huge push for ground radar to be installed in airports, especially ones with low visibility issues (like fog). The biggest challenge for the ATC at Tenerife was that most of the time, they couldn't see fucking anything through the fog, and were reliant on radio to know where anything was at all. Of course, no radar in the world is going to protect you when a captain decides that he's going to floor it down the runway in zero visibility without clearance.

[@sleatersan]

This was super interesting and a lovely supplement to the podcast; thanks for sharing! (Oh god, this might be the most sincere youtube comment I've ever written, and now I'm looking it over and can't stop misreading it as sarcastic. I'm not being sarcastic, I promise! I genuinely enjoyed your comment.)

[@Ometecuhtli]

That's not true of the airport of Los Rodeos, though, they already knew it was a bad location yet the council decided to build there temporarily and improvements came slowly. There wasn't a ground radar at the time of the accident (or was not in service, I can't recall) and the new airport was still in construction, unfortunately too late to save the hundreds of lives lost on that fatidic date.

[@Altoclarinets]

"Nasty bomb problem"???

[@kalindastrome2182]

Thank you for this very detailed and non rude addendum, very useful information

[@dexterpoindexter3583]

@SaltyWaffles *Very* well summarized. I've been binging on Tenerife videos for a few days (to get ready for the 46th anniversary in under two weeks' time?), so when you sagely remarked that "no radar in the world could protect you...", my sleep-deprived only thought was "No, but maybe a cop tossing spike strips onto the runway would do it". Sorry. 😔 Had to share; misery shared is misery halved, y'know.

[@Comnlink]

Funnier fact about that Venezuelan patrol vessel, they had just finished paying for it. It was also one of only three ships in its class. So, in other words, the Venezuelan navy lost 1/3 of its modern patrol vessel fleet to a cruise ship

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

…does that mean that Venezuela has (and continues to have) a larger modern patrol vessel fleet than the Royal Navy

[@jacobs2099]

@@RoamingAdhocrat Lol Mexico has a bigger one and most people dont even know they have a navy

[@Comnlink]

Roaming Adhocrat nope, the rn has got a couple of brand new, as in commissioned in 2018-19 offshore patrol vessels, the Venezuelan navy’s opv fleet was commissioned in the 2000s the one in question being finished around 2008

[@teslashark]

@@Comnlink Didn't Britain give them an extended financing program?

[@Comnlink]

teslashark I cannot remember

[@Yora21]

"This is going to be someone else's problem in about 15 seconds." seems like a good attitude for facing certain death.

[@WHYSMYUSERNAMETHAT]

the basque space program isnt funny cars only do that when they are very distressed and full of fascists

[@TheBananenbeer]

thank you this is hilarious

[@vienlacrose]

You do realize that's literally every american on the interstate, right?

[@loplopthebird1860]

@@vienlacrose Even anarchists or communists riding a Greyhound bus or a shared car if they have no other choice?

[@Frommerman]

What if there were no basque antifa bombers? What if cars full of fascists just do that?

[@albertovillaescusarico9456]

Car = bad, unless it sacrifices itself to kill fascists.

[@panicpillow6097]

As a Dutch person I can confirm that everything said about the Dutch in this episode is 100% accurate.

[@urbandiscount]

I can confirm this confirmation

[@Turpin_Paints]

ATCO here, I was shown this disaster three times while I was training (including the Smithsonian doc) to emphasise the need for standard phraseology. If I recall correctly, the Dutch captain was also in danger of busting his duty hours due to all the delays at Tenerife, which would have resulted in him losing his license, that explains why he might have been in such a rush.

[@ExperimentIV]

Ryan Palmer damn that’s cool. seems like a cool job, but i don’t think i have the focus for it, and when you fuck up working ATC you usually fuck up pretty bad. the modern standard is to not say takeoff at all until actual takeoff, using departure instead, right?

[@Turpin_Paints]

@@ExperimentIV It's particularly difficult to focus at the moment with such little traffic, it's surprising how many incidents occur with 1 or 2 aircraft on frequency. That's correct, in the UK we're also extremely careful with the word "departure" too, if giving a change of clearance just before take-off we include "Hold position. After departure..."

[@ExperimentIV]

Ryan Palmer oh yeah, totally forgot about hold position! yeah, i can’t imagine it’s easy to focus with so little going on. when you’ve got regular air traffic, it’s consistent and probably feels more pressintg. when you have that sudden change from your regular pace, it can be extremely jarring. i’ve experienced similar things, though obviously not in aviation.

[@theryanbard]

The Dutch officially join fish as the enemy of the podcast.

[@Cynon]

Dutch fish are in a bad spot

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

@@Cynon especially lutefisk and that fish that wishes it was lutefisk which is rotted and smells like the Hostel in Hostel.

[@WebertHest]

@@PanAndScanBuddy You know lutefisk is not Dutch, right?

[@MrxstGrssmnstMttckstPhlNelThot]

@@PanAndScanBuddy pretty sure lutefisk is... Scandinavian?

[@deeznoots6241]

WebertHest the lutefisk is culturally dutch, you can tell by all the blackface they wear

[@williamheayn3760]

When KLM first heard there was an accident involving one of their planes, they actually tried contacting Captain Feldhausen Van Zanten to lead their investigation. For some reason, he didn't pick up.

[@xmlthegreat]

He let his phone plan lapse, how silly of him!

[@DiamondKingStudios]

Now I’m thinking of the Texas City episode where they talk about the one fireman that survived the explosion, but pretend he got a text from his boss and just replied with something along the lines of “sounds rough, well good luck”

[@jadebullet3884]

Not to be pedantic, but we actually did shovel coal into planes and flew them during the Berlin airlift. Man that's a fun topic. The planes were flown in a state of deferred mainrianance, with things like logs reading "pilot: Engine oil light keeps coming on. MAINT: Removed bulb from engine oil light. (resolved)" Also, when KLM started their investigation prep, they actually called the pilot involved because they wanted to bring him in to help the investigation into what happened. This was, obviously, before they knew he was the one involved.

[@OriginalPineapplesFoster]

To clarify what you said about calling in the pilot: As I recall, they specifically called him because he was a lead investigator for situations just like this. 😂🍍

[@RavenclawEaglet]

@@OriginalPineapplesFoster Veldhuyzen van Zanten was the chief training captain and principal check airman with speciality in B747's. Basically if some junior pilot was being trained on the Jumbo in KLM in the 1970's he was the go-to-guy. The new duty time limits of the KLM in '77 were so strict that if van Zanten didn't turn up in Amsterdam on time with his plane on that day he would be flipping stroopwafeln the very next day outside Schiphol, seniority be damned. That stress basically turned what was usually a fairly genial man into a temperamental tyrant with extreme get-to-Amsterdam-itis. The KLM CVR even included moments where van Zanten was trying to get the flight engineer to stop stressing out the copilot and the next moment he was flooring the throttles.

[@xmlthegreat]

@@RavenclawEaglet Now I kinda feel bad for the guy. Only slightly.

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

There was a guy convicted for intentionally derailing a train in England. Early 60s, east of England, a railway signaller with a sick curiosity about just how robust the interlocking was at the signalbox he was working. He managed to find a way to move the points while a train was moving over them at speed, derailed several coaches, killed several. He'd previously been discharged from the Royal Marines for being "hysterical and emotionally immature".

[@CreeperOnYourHouse]

Roaming Adhocrat how robust was the interlocking? Did it require repairs after the incident?

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

Basically the interlocking was fine unless someone with expert knowledge and malicious intent decides to derail a train with it. Given British railway safety culture they probably applied some gold-plated remedy nationwide. Stand by and I'll find a link…

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

Connington South derailment of 1967 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connington_South_rail_crash

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

Actually having re-read the Wikipedia article I think there's some unexplained and obscure jargon - he's quoted as saying he was "swinging" the levers and that made the points move accidentally. The interlocking won't let you clear a signal if there's something dangerous beyond it - like another train, or points set on a conflicting route. You need to provide a safe space for the train to travel into before you can clear the signal. However, if there's two routes beyond the signal and the desired one is temporarily unavailable (usually because it's full of imminently-departing train) you can set the points for the other route and clear the signal so the train can approach. When the desired route is safe, _and before the approaching train has arrived_, you can change the points to the desired route and avoid unnecessary delay. This late changing of the points is called "swinging". His defence probably wasn't that he was using the lever frame as gym equipment… (the above is a gross oversimplification of aspects of Absolute Block Signalling and clearing points, something I learned about this weekend playing SimSig. Look on their forums for "clearing point violation" for more.) (EDIT: I was mistaken. He literally told the police he was swinging on the levers and moved the points lever by mistake. A lengthy investigation found that this wasn't possibly true. BR had torn its hair out, trying to figure out how this derailment could possibly have happened, when the track and points and train all appeared to be fine.)

[@pkunkbwok]

I didn't realize that was a disqualification for military service

[@stupititykills]

Hi! Plane nerd here. You actually got the origin of the 747 the wrong way around. It was designed for an Air Force contract for a very large cargo plane capable of carrying intermodial containers. To do that, the nose needed to be hinged, which precluded the fuselage from being pressurized. Also, the Air Force didn't want the control linkages to be hinged, so the flight deck was placed in a pressurized hump above the cargo deck, along with the air conditioning equipment. In the end, Boeing lost the contract to what would become the C-5, however Pan-Am expressed interest in a passenger-carrying variant of the plane, with the caveat that they had to move the aircon down between the wings to make room for the bar. The bar ended up being too big, and the hump had to be enlarged to make room, so you can tell if a 747 was originally a passenger or a cargo plane by the size of the hump.

[@elijaha773]

Thank you for representing the avgeek population! Your spreading of knowledge is appreciated.

[@Udontsay948]

Love yr handle

[@AsbestosMuffins]

and yet they would come up with endless amounts of silly things to sell the 747 to the airforce on for the next 40 years

[@andrevanderleeuw8070]

Scary thing is there are still a lot of Dutch people who think our VOC (the spice traders that went to Indonesia) was great because we got so rich and they gave us our "golden age". I got taught in school how glorious we apparently were, but barely anything about what we did to the Indonesians. My history teacher had to make that clear to us.

[@TheImpossiBelle]

@CommandoDude acquire nutmeg, discard nutmeg for mayonnaise

[@SadisticSenpai61]

Why does that sound familiar? Oh yeah, that's very similar to how US history classes teach settling the territories the US currently possesses - except our actual territories ofc. If you only read the textbooks, you will never know the US _still_ has territories that haven't been made states, nor will you know how the US acquired those territories. Oh and there's zero mention of Hawaii until Dec 7, 1941 when Pearl Harbor was bombed. I remember reading about it and then pausing and asking myself, "Wait, when did the US get control of HI? They mentioned us buying AK from Russia, but never mentioned HI." There's vague references to "interior wars" with Native American tribes, but it's implied that it was mostly busy work for the US Army/Cavalry and that they only were deployed after tribes attacked settlers - you know, completely defensive.

[@tardvandecluntproductions1278]

I hear the history lessons are getting better these days. And with better I still mean lacking a lot.

[@grmpEqweer]

Our U.S. history books, as I remember them in high school, were so sanitized they might as well have been hosed down in hand cleaner.

[@ridnaw9796]

As an indonesian, all i can say is fuck you, and i forgive you.

[@The_Random_Aussie]

One note about the Dutch captain & the KLM plane, they were getting really close to their allowable shift hours before the mandatory rest period, as they were due to fly the plane back to Amsterdam. Hence, the captain was in a rush to beat the rapidly closing shift time window or risk major repercussions.

[@SpeedbirdNine9]

Hours of Service did him in.

[@OriginalPineapplesFoster]

Yes, this is an important point. There had recently been a change making it _illegal_ to work beyond a certain number of hours without a rest. I believe some conversations about this between the crew were captured on the voice recorder. ✌️🍍

[@Riotdrone]

43:20 AHHH AALICE YOU ACTUALLY *WANT* A HEADWIND BECAUSE OF THE AIRFLOW OVER THE AILERON AAHH THANK YOU

[@fitandhappy42]

Love the trajectory of that train terrorism effort, if he’d actually somehow got the speed and momentum to go far enough he would have utterly decimated...the parking lot.

[@wkiernan]

I think he was planning to _steer_ the train toward the ship, but he could not find where they put the steering wheel on one of those things..

[@weatheranddarkness]

the most charitable possible explanation was that he he was hoping to he would be derailed by going too fast in the bend and thus have actually had a chance of a slightly different trajectory from the straight section after the bend.

[@ewanhogg3068]

Good. Car bad.

[@Kamikrazey]

current news segment should be "There are additional problems"

[@marko8095]

+1

[@gotnothingclever]

"The plane people who will never fly a plane" Bleak

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

WTYP: we don't know much about planes lol, get mad plane nerds also WTYP: i listen to air traffic control for fun

[@gobarn1877]

@@RoamingAdhocrat hey! Us plane nerds can be self-aware.

[@Full_Otto_Bismarck]

I dont know about other countries but the cost of getting time with an instructor in the US to learn to fly small aircraft like a Cessna isnt entirely unreasonable. If the angry plane nerds are angry because they'll never fly there really is no excuse for it.

[@gobarn1877]

@@Full_Otto_Bismarck Yes, but it's still expensive and the cost of upkeeping a general aviation aircraft is ridiculous. Sure you could rent one. Then you also need to store the plane somewhere, you need the avgas for the plane you need to keep your licenses by flying it often and this is all for an asset which likely won't earn you money.

[@Full_Otto_Bismarck]

@@gobarn1877 Well its certainly not an impulse buy and your average joe like myself will have to save up for quite awhile but my point is its still not outside the reach of the average American to go fly a plane at least once.

[@saturnusdevorans]

Alice is gonna be so upset when she goes into the churrasquería for dessert and gets some churrasco

[@Ometecuhtli]

It reminds me of this scene... kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3jQkpuoaLFpZtk

[@Devingreasemonkey]

Dutch guy here. yes thank you the language is absolutely horrendous and I can confirm the people here are terrified of any spice more complicated than pepper

[@OriginalPineapplesFoster]

This explains so much. I had been attributing my spice-free taste to neurodivergence, but it's actually a much deeper component of my genetics. Thanks!

[@DiamondKingStudios]

As a white American, the only time my mother uses anything other than salt or pepper in a dish is when the recipe she’s reading explicitly calls for it. The spice rack is in one of the cupboards that gets opened the least at her house. We’re not even aware of any Dutch in her ancestry this must be a broadly northern European thing. Luckily for me my father’s side is half Sicilian lol

[@deeznoots6241]

Fish bad, plane bad, car bad, helicopter chaotic neutral, train good. Edit:ship people good(as a ship person hell yeah)

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

are you confusing helicopters with horses

[@forcea1454]

@@RoamingAdhocrat Horses don't exist.

[@DistractedGlobeGuy]

@@RoamingAdhocrat what are horses, but helicopters for cowboys?

[@jgraaay18]

Helicopter chaotic evil. Ten thousand moving parts in loose formation, looking for a place to crash.

[@ericjamieson]

Still cackling at "Geert Wilders: Boytoy of the SS"

[@daltonkraft4241]

Instead of a news section it could be a weekly Shake Hands With Danger Award

[@JamLeGull]

I think you mean in addition to The Goddamn News, but that’s a great idea

[@Full_Otto_Bismarck]

Yes please, i need more of that guitar riff in my life.

[@weatheranddarkness]

@@Full_Otto_Bismarck bahdownt deedle duhnt dooowwww

[@Summer-it3wh]

Trying to ram the cruise ship into venezuelan waters is like watching a cop on a segway trying to PIT maneuver a petrol tanker.

[@blackriver2531]

Im a trans girl who doesn't really put any effort into the voice thing either, you ALL make me feel more comfortable and feel more valid, thank you Alice, and all your friends who support you! Edit: I know Alice isn't necessarily transgender or at least they're still exploring themselves but they're still encouraging!

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

…how did you possibly get alice's pronouns wrong tho (also, hi, welcome, solidarity, i'll delete this comment if you like, hope you're doing ok with the lockdown, my pronouns are he/him)

[@blackriver2531]

@@RoamingAdhocrat I've heard Alice say multiple times on this podcast stuff about potentially being non binary or something in that vein and I was trying to be sensitive by avoiding gendered pronouns. Using neutral pronouns is not "getting something wrong" especially since the given context my tone was that of understanding and admiration.

[@flametitan100]

@@blackriver2531 Alice is explicit that she uses she/her, regardless of whether she's nb or not. Admiration and respecting that she might be nb are not an excuse to ignore what she asks to be referred to as.

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

I mean I use they/them too when I don't know or can't reasonably guess someone's pronouns, and when talking about an abstract person ("when a user signs up, they will…"), but would never use them instead of someone's explicitly-stated choice of pronouns

[@NeighborSenpai]

I'm glad this podcast makes you feel comfortable

[@FriendlyCobblestone]

Can't believe Liam doesn't even hate the Netherlands for prety much inventing capitalism.

[@insatsuki_no_koshou]

I was under the assumtion that capitalism emerged in northern Italy.

[@FriendlyCobblestone]

@@insatsuki_no_koshou All I know is that the first stock market was in Amsterdam.

[@jizburg]

Nethelands, Dutch.. same thing.

[@DiamondKingStudios]

I feel like capitalism’s origin story probably has to do with some monks, like so many other aspects of modern society strangely do. Like over in don0teat’s video about the Budd Company how he talks about the Cistercians running the most sophisticated metallurgy facilities in medieval Europe. I know monks were some of the first pawnbrokers out there.

[@mahj]

As a Dutch person I'd like to say we probably deserved it. Also; if anyone ever comments "GEKOLONISEERD" on your videos, ban them. It's a dog whistle. (If that means banning me as well- worth it.)

[@HendrikTheThird]

@Socialist Survivalist Colonized. Most people just say it for jokes, not really thinking about the connotation it has but it is still a weird edgy online identifier based on a history of conquest and oppression.

[@Stijning]

Why say "gek*l*niseerd" when you can say "GENATIONALISEERD"

[@HendrikTheThird]

@@Stijning O N T E I G E N D

[@pedroalvarez713]

ALICE CHURRASQUERÍA MEANS THEY SELL STEAKS NOT CHURROS. CHURRASCO=STEAK

[@Superbouncybubble]

This is really tragic I'm truly upset that there isn't a churro joint next to the worst disaster in civil aviation history

[@excitableboy7031]

DO NOT TALK ABOUT CHURROS I HAVE NOT BEEN OUTSIDE SINCE MARCH 24TH I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL LICK MY SCREEN GOD DAMN YOU

[@sweetprimrose]

They might have churros for desert goddamnit or there's like a cart out front cuz after a meaty meal you want a little bit of sweet.

[@do_care919]

Four comments in, we already have a freak talking about having churros for dessert. PUTOS. GUIRIS. CHURROS ARE A FUCKING BREAKFAST MEAL

[@pkunkbwok]

Mmm. Steak churros.

[@timmylean]

I once flew from Munich to Amsterdam on KLM and because they had to give the announcements in English, German, and Dutch, we were already landing by the time the safety announcements were done.

[@DistractedGlobeGuy]

Imagine if they'd just done it in Finnish...

[@Prinsgezindepatriot]

Declaring war on Germany was a prerequisite to joining the early UN, so most of the world declared war on Germany during the final days of the war to be able to get in on that sweet UN juice.

[@Ometecuhtli]

Is that what ruined Argentinian and Spanish economies, not getting the (IMF equivalent at the time?) pardon and getting low interest loans?

[@benjaminbittle8192]

KLM stands for Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij, which just means Royal Aviation Company, Inc. if anyone was intrested

[@xmlthegreat]

Not a real language anyway.

[@Pants4096]

43:25 "you don't want to like take off into a headwind" Um, ma'am, that is specifically EXACTLY like what you want to do. It's tailwind that you don't want when taking off (or landing).

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

I think you mean COMRADE

[@SantaFebuff]

"disclaimer: we don't know much about airplanes"

[@ericjamieson]

Deliberately derailing trains used to be a whole thing in America, that's why there's a specific law against it and the penalties are so severe. In the 19th century people would derail them to rob them - later on radicals like the IWW did it as a protest. Kids would do it as a prank (early 20th c. juvenile delinquents were pretty hardcore). I think the last person to be convicted of murder by train wrecking was the guy who caused the 2005 Glendale Metrolink crash.

[@erikawhelan4673]

The name of the gentleman in question is Juan Manuel Álvarez. According to Wikipedia, he was acquitted of the murder-by-train-wrecking charge (Cal. Penal Code § 190.2(a)(17)(I)). Álvarez was, notably, charged in LA County Superior Court, under California law. The gentleman in the USNS Mercy case is being charged under Federal law.

[@ericjamieson]

@@erikawhelan4673 Interesting. I thought he'd been convicted of it. I suppose they couldn't prove he'd specifically intended to derail the train.

[@erikawhelan4673]

Indeed, the jury did not believe he intended for anyone to die. However, because he was found guilty of arson, which is a felony, the jury had no choice but to convict him of felony murder.

[@michlo3393]

@@erikawhelan4673 Haha right! because he dowsed his jeep in gasoline.

[@jadefalcon001]

@@erikawhelan4673 Makes me think of some advice I got from a professor in college. "1) Do not break the rules. 2) If you MUST break the rules, do not break more than one at a time!"

[@clifford87]

"Ha! I'll financially support them! That'll sure show those... transgender goofballs!" I would... like to know the thought process behind that one? Regardless, thanks WTYP, you're all real champs.

[@zacharytaylor2983]

Speaking of the Dutch... A.P. Hamann, the city planner of San Jose, CA was on the Pan-Am flight and died in the crash. Hamann was responsible for the city’s rapid growth in the 1950s-60s, via aggressive annexation of surrounding suburban developments. His nickname was “Dutch” Hamann.

[@zacharytaylor2983]

Chris p Funny enough, you know the best way for San Jose to improve traffic congestion? Build more trains.

[@t.o.6953]

Thank you Cincinnati Bengals coach Zac Taylor

[@DiamondKingStudios]

I wish this had blown up more as a comment. Liam would have probably brought it up in later episodes if it had.

[@zacharytaylor2983]

@@DiamondKingStudios Yeah. But it’s one of the highest-rated KZbin comments I’ve ever posted, so I’m happy with it.

[@DiamondKingStudios]

@@zacharytaylor2983 that was quick. Hope you’re still doing well after two years. Around these parts in GA, the county seat of Marion Co, Buena Vista, is named in honor of one of Zachary Taylor’s most important military victories in the Mexican War, and probably what helped him get the Whig nomination for the presidency in the 1848 election.

[@pedroalvarez713]

The E is never ever silent in Spanish ever, so it's tenerif-EH

[@gregl6619]

Well, it is in LSE. Need the cam to confirm whether they made the hand sign

[@windwalker5765]

Nah, things only end in "eh" in Canuckese

[@michigan2974]

As a pilot this episode wasn’t as painful as I thought it would be, some parts were thought like the “they probably couldn’t take off that way because of headwind” (the whole point of having more than one runway is to take off with a headwind) but beyond that and a few other small mistakes it wasn’t that bad

[@TheGreatPurpleFerret]

Not a pilot but I am familiar with aviation and agree, though its understandable that people who don't know enough about aviation to think the opposite, that the opposite direction runway is for a tailwind thinking that a tailwind would be better for forward speed rather than a headwind for upward force.

[@theryanbard]

Hey the pronoun checks are supposed to come before the alienating the Spanish check!

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

nobody expects the Spanish alienation

[@katamariroller2837]

@@RoamingAdhocrat As a Spaniard, I think it´s funny how every time I reveal I am from Spain to English speakers, they will immediately try to speak in my language, usually producing a mangled mess. Nothing´s come bursting out of my abdomen, though, so I guess it´s fine.

[@Redshirt214]

I vote for the new segment being called “The Gottdamn News”. This can be Episode One: “Why Are You Hitting Yourself?”.

[@Redshirt214]

Also I think the English equivalent of that store would be Piggly Wiggly. Three guesses which state I’m from.

[@phathumdeep]

​@@Redshirt214 Kentucky?

[@iannesbitt]

@@Redshirt214 south carolina

[@Redshirt214]

@@iannesbitt Oh, no much more North than that ;).

[@Redshirt214]

@@phathumdeep You're warm, Phil. Not there, there!

[@scarylion1roar]

"Well, There's Your News" or "P.i.E.N.N.: Problems in Engineering News Network" (yep, the acronym is pronounced Peen. I think I'm funny.) or "E.G.O. News: Engineering Go Oops" (they/them)

[@NuttyJakKicks]

i second E.G.O. news

[@bittersweet5161]

I was gonna say Well, There's Your News as well, but I like both of the other suggestions as well xD I love the "Go Oops" bit. (she/her or sometimes they/them)

[@scarylion1roar]

@@bittersweet5161 my grandpa's a retired engineer (civilian corps) who worked at an army ammunitions plant, including rebuilds of the nitroglycerin factory. "Go oops" is one of his favourite technical terms, and keep your office windows open.

[@kensurrency2564]

E.G.O. Has so much potential!

[@teslashark]

Peen? Circumcise it!

[@Ormurinn]

The Naiguata thing reminds me of the Cod wars where the UK sent frigates to intimidate the Icelandic coast guard patrol boats from harassing trawlers. A bunch of them got torn up like tin cans by ramming or being rammed by the more iceberg ready patrol boats that were otherwise just armed with cannons from the 19th century. Although the Icelandic government tried to buy a Soviet frigate to use against a fellow NATO country, which is a very classic cold war Iceland move.

[@flyingskier1913]

Instructions unclear; bridge blew over in high winds

[@flyingskier1913]

It was pretty cool. You guys should do an episode on it

[@scarylion1roar]

@@flyingskier1913 Don't worry, it's the next episode.

[@misium]

I thought this accident was not just "a little spur of what would eventually became crew resource management". It was the sole reason for crew resource management becoming a mandatory part of civil aviation. It totally changed the culture, empowering crew members to make decisions and take action when they realize their captain had gone bonkers.

[@DistractedGlobeGuy]

You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? But then Air France 447 proved how little had actually changed.

[@BigHenFor]

@@DistractedGlobeGuy Culture - the way people do things - is the hardest thing to change in any collective effort, especially when it's inadvertently toxic and reinforced by by said bad behaviour not being controlled or being tolerated. And no-one, given the right context, is immune from stupidity. Sadly the Dutch captain lost the plot, gave his ego the lead, and killed everyone in this disaster. CRM changed the airline industry, but deference to status, or overbearing captains still has been a contributory factor to crashes after Tenerife. It just happens less. And that's better than nothing.

[@BlakeBigfoot]

First major plane person moment at 43:25 when discussing takeoff direction... you ALWAYS takeoff and land into a headwind if prevailing winds exist. It increases the lift while decreasing the ground speed relative to the airspeed and allows significantly shorter takeoffs.

[@effluviah7544]

I followed the uploading timeline of this one on Twitter and I think in the end it took 6 hours to finally make it to a KZbin server in hell so honestly I'm just glad we can all be here, wasn't too sure we'd get to see this one lmao 👍 EDIT also I'm trans too so I'm here for my sister, fuck the haters lmao my pronouns are he/him love u صديق ✨

[@effluviah7544]

@ThisIsMyRealName Thank you, Comrade. ❤️

[@DC4260Productions]

Two podcasts in one week. Now that's impressive.

[@tomcoletti3427]

i am absolutely enamored by the idea of a carefully sculpted aerodynamic fuselage being completely marred by the presence of a massive K5LA horn mounted on the roof

[@d-rot]

My buddy flew a Beech King to Hawaii. Left Santa Barbara, he was copilot w/ the pilot at the beginning of Indiana Jones, Jacques. (real name Fred Sorenson, legendary pilot) Sitting on gas tanks, the GPS goes out. He wakes Fred up. Fred points at airliners above them "those are going to Hawaii. Those are going to Tahiti. Follow the ones going to Hawaii."

[@NeighborSenpai]

Ok so the podcast is: Dutch people don't know how to talk property, crash a plane into an American plane then blaming the Spanish ATC for being Spanish and the American plane for being American. Can't wait for the Tacoma narrows bridge disaster

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

you're too late, it happened years ago

[@scarylion1roar]

It's the next episode.

[@gwynjudd]

@@RoamingAdhocrat spoiler alert please

[@stargazer79]

Well one of the things making the Dutch captain impatient was a duty time limit.. if they didn't take off before a certain time and complete the flight, then KLM rules would mean they couldn't fly and a relief crew would need to be flown down to take over the aircraft, which would cost the airline for the relief flight and hotel costs for the passengers(and the captain's rep of course.) Also, according to the rules of the day, the visibility restriction should have caused the crew to abort the takeoff (below minimums)

[@franciscoduarteauthor]

Ie. There was no way that day would end well.

[@DiamondKingStudios]

I wonder how much of Reagan’s cracking down on the airline workers for striking was inspired by a vague memory of the time limit and the Tenerife disaster.

[@GorgeDawes]

I’ve always felt the focus on which exit the PanAm was supposed to take was a bit of red herring. The fact is, the tower controller had no way of knowing where on the runway the PanAm aircraft was without them reporting their position over the radio. At no stage did they report being clear of the runway, so the tower controller never issued a takeoff clearance. The fact that the other flight took off without being cleared to do so was the ultimate cause of the accident.

[@Furore2323]

News name - WASH HANDS WITH DANGER

[@scarylion1roar]

DONT SPIT WITH DANGER

[@R._B._Victor_Hugo_Ashford]

My roommate is a bridge guy, and I have recommended this podcast to him multiples times, but because he's working he hasn't listened to an episode yet. Even though he loves him some engineering disasters.

[@deeznoots6241]

Reginald Benedict Victor Hugo Ashford he’ll cross that bridge when he gets to it

[@NeighborSenpai]

5 minutes into the podcast and we already have someone attempting to do a train 9/11, seems good so far

[@teslashark]

Oh god, as fortold by the Grenfell episode.

[@idcanthony9286]

This should be the like top review comment for the entire show.

[@DiamondKingStudios]

I’m getting flashbacks from the previous episode about the _Federal Express_ wreck in DC Union Station, 1953.

[@phathumdeep]

I recognize that flying is safer than driving. It's just that if you die while flying, you Extremely die.

[@DistractedGlobeGuy]

Whereas if you die from driving, it might take several years of being like Jacqueline Saburido. I guess if a trip is going to kill me, I'd rather it get the job finished thoroughly and efficiently.

[@dexterpoindexter3583]

@Phil Hodgins Extremely dying... It's a nightmare for many. 🛬🔥 All those who Moderately died in ground vehicle crashes can take comfort in this... hm? 😪 🤦‍♂️ ⚰

[@xmlthegreat]

The radio thing is because older radios used Superheterodynes, which to simplify is basically a wire with current passing through it, and to be tuned it has to resonate at the frequency it's trying to catch. Basically it's an active component. I don't remember why exactly this is bad (not sure if this is constructive/destructive interference or solstice else entirely) but it means two transmissions occurring at the same time will overload the circuit and cause it to produce a single tone. This is the first time a piece of knowledge from my communications engineering class has been useful, especially since I dropped out of college at that point.

[@GunnarMiller]

It's actually the opposite. AM is used for aircraft communications because multiple simultaneous transmissions can be heard at once, whilst a stronger FM signal completely supresses a weaker signal due to what's called the capture effect.

[@EvelynnEleonore]

Seeing an empty comment section on youtube several refreshes apart is an uncanny valley experience, for anyone wondering. Feeling like I'm the first person to the arctic circle or something. Such peace. such quiet

[@martinda7446]

That was what my high street was just like...

[@EvelynnEleonore]

oh fuck i didnt even consider the fact that i had a fully socially distanced comment section to myself

[@patrickminer7017]

here's a BRIDGE GUY listening from Madrid! I work for a Spanish structure/bridge design firm, I was a SEPTA and BEN FRANKLIN BRIDGE engineer guy for a good 7-8 years...fell in love eith this podcast on the PENN CENTRAL episode ✓

[@ClaudiaNW]

A suggestion: Have you considered doing an episode on Thomas Heatherwick, Boris Johnson's favourite artist/designer/architect/real-life counterpart to Bloody Stupid Johnson? Apparently he has been responsible for a succession of engineering disasters including an extremely expensive pavement in Newcastle, an art installation in Manchester that had giant metal spikes falling off it, a London bus where the upper deck reached near-fatally high temperatures, and of course the ill-fated Garden Bridge.

[@OkSharkey]

The Dutch do have a certain something when it comes to water barrier engineering, but damn if I can't quite put my finger on it

[@DistractedGlobeGuy]

**in

[@MrJohndoakes]

55:00 They can blank each other out because aircraft use AM-mode VHF or UHF radio, so only one coherent transmission can be made at a time on a specific frequency. Only the tower can hear all of the various frequencies, including the ground crew. The Soviets were using 10 meter and 6 meter band transceivers, so you could hear Moscow's airports on ham radio in West Germany if the ionosphere was good.

[@GunnarMiller]

It's actually the opposite. AM is used for aircraft communications because multiple simultaneous transmissions can be heard at once, whilst a stronger FM signal completely supresses a weaker signal due to what's called the capture effect.

[@danielodette6013]

"That's the Goddamn News" is a perfectly good name for a news segment, I say stick with it

[@mbilbo]

"A quasi facist dictatorship." - "How quasi?" "A four."

[@matt39581]

"this week in Your Problem"

[@J0NES250]

"Your Problem This Week"?

[@global-sequence]

you guys should do the Tacoma narrows bridge bit but eke out a small fact about it each episode and release the Tacoma narrows bridge episode as a cohesive compilation of all those bits.

[@mikeblatzheim2797]

25:30 They did actually do that during the Berlin airlift. Considering the weight of coal, it was more like 5 bags in the back of a DC-3 though.

[@Kiriduala]

Segment name proposal: “ShipTalk with Captain Alice”

[@shadeitplease7383]

Damn did I just go back in time to the birth of the god damned news?

[@shtehfaw]

"The God Damn News" has a decent ring to it, but I don't think it'll catch on.

[@TuckerWhite94]

What's next? Safety Third?!

[@heavymetalcommy]

I have waited for a podcast that mixes left wing analysis of disasters and Texian folk singers, the mention of Townes Van Zandt has made that mix. We are now one step closer to the technological singularity and i thank you for that!

[@sparkpenguin]

$1500 will more than cover the transport fee from FL to you if you want my 91 firebird for $1. you'll even have enough left over in your budget to fix the shot electric. when it DOES run, it's LIKE a pickup truck. he's a burly boy so you can tow, the tailgate flattens so you can haul, it smells like coal, and it's only a dollar. what's your delay, liam. future episodes don't write themselves.

[@KevinSiebert]

This is a good investment

[@Zizzily]

Boeing actually came up with body gear steering for this issue on the 747-400. A Boeing 747-400 has a turning radius of ~150 feet/46 meters, which is pretty impressive and almost exactly the width of the runway at Tenerife Airport.

[@Ometecuhtli]

So the captain asked us all to move to the right wing just for the lulz...

[@laceneil4570]

Now I'm imagining a passenger on KLM shutting the window shutter and shouting, "Change the channel! Change the channel!" like Zangeif in the Streetfighter movie, but in Dutch.

[@fanboycrossing]

WTYP - Officially shipping ship people.

[@CaptainProton100]

*plane nerd voice* actually, taking off into a headwind is good because it means that you already have some air speed, so you need less runway to accelerate to take off speed.

[@joshuahadams]

Clips of bush planes just kinda floating with a good headwind are always fun. Saw one that was pretty much just sitting in one spot when the pilot matched the airspeed.

[@dpa5097]

"I heard the traffic controllers were too busy making paellas to do their jobs right" "well I heard the Dutch pilot wasn't paying attention because he was too busy looking for his blackface marker"

[@scrungly]

“the goddamn news” is an extremely good name for the segment

[@whoever6458]

Speaking of overweight planes... I had some friends who brewed beer and some other friends who brewed Pisco when I lived in Perú and I was trying to bring back a bunch of alcohol. I didn't want the pressure change under the plane to fuck up my bottles so I filled my carry-on suitcase with bottles of beer and Pisco. Then, I made sure to pretend like I was fat and not strong, which usually works, especially if they also take you for a women. As a result, they didn't weigh my carry on when I checked in and then I just lifted it into the overhead compartment and acted like it weighed maybe 20 pounds. It probably actually weighed at least 80 pounds but I pulled it off because I'll be damned if I'm not getting my boos with me. Note that this was after the attack on the world trade center but before they stopped letting you bring your own water on the plane. In any case, I think I got a gallon of Pisco and at least six beers that were either liter or liter and a half bottles. I had some clothes in there too but it was mostly to prevent the bottle clanking problem since all of these fine alcohols were in glass bottles.

[@jizburg]

The "communication bug" is that only one person can send at a time. That is why talking on a radio is highly ritualized. You start with a virtual handshake were you ask for someone and they say that they are listening. That is a signal for everyone else to shut the fuck upp on the radio and wait their turn to talk. And every time you say something you repeat who you are and who you are talking to and end every sentence with "over" and the last message is "over and out" and then someone else can talk. Example: "PA123, PA123" "PA123 over" "From ATC to PA123 you are cleared for take off over" "PA123 to ATC Roger, i am cleared for takeoff over" "ATC Over and out" If they would have just followed basic fucking radio protocol and waited their turn to talk for like 3 seconds then this could have been avoided.

[@GunnarMiller]

It's actually the opposite. AM is used for aircraft communications because multiple simultaneous transmissions can be heard at once, whilst a stronger FM signal completely supresses a weaker signal due to what's called the capture effect.

[@jizburg]

@@GunnarMiller okay? I did not know that. But radio protocoll is still important and stops communication errors from occuring.

[@EvelynnEleonore]

sometimes, you get here before the video does, and that's ok

[@randomjunk1977]

"There are only two things I cannot stand: people who dont respect other cultures, and the Dutch." -Austin Powers' Dad

[@jorgeguimaraes8820]

as for the "pass only on the left joke"; that's actually a thing while flying. there's a standard way to deviate (always to the left, if I remember correctly) in the case of a possible head on collision. that is without any atc advising VFR etc

[@alstorer]

I mean they built the airport there as it was a flatish bit (rare on that island) and close to the capital. I'm not yet at the point of collision, but one of the things with Sud airport is that they has to heavily engineer the land to make a flat bit. It is however on a part of the island that is in a desert rather than a cloud forest. And is close to the bit where all the northern europeans (including brits) go to drink crap lager and eat unadventurous food.

[@alstorer]

so the actual geography- North airport is sat at the lowest point between the massive mountain that makes up most of the mountain, and the small mountain that is the north east end. These days the capital has merged up the hill to make it a single urban area (mmm sprawl) . But yeah, the north side and north west corner are very wet. Thus fog and clouds. The south side/south west end is meanwhile a desert which is why when I went to cycle up it on that side it poured with rain

[@ehsn]

I'm from the Canary Islands. What you wrote is accurare. There is a joke here that says that when they were on the early planning of the airport, they gave a guy the task to find a good location to build it. After a while, the expert returned a map with a big red X placed in where the airport is currently located. So they started to build the airport there, and one day the expert called them angrily when he noticed the construction works. "What the hell are you doing?" he told them. "Why are you building the airport there?" "Well, we are using the location you gave us..." they replied. "No, no, no, no" said the expert "read the goddamn map legend. The X meant 'anywhere but here', you morons"

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

you forgot the fact that the tower controllers in Los-Rodeos were not really controllers at all!!! they were some fairly random dudes that volunteered to sit in the control tower for the weekend (members of some local aeronautic fans club )... no knowledge of large airport operations, part of no system, they were something like an intern but with 0 supervision & given formal training at all. the airport was formally considered closed to traffic but for 2 small local planes a day. also, the taxiways used in the day were numbered using two different systems, one used for civilian operators, the other for the military and GA flights that sometimes used the airport. one system had was to name the exit Taxiways : Charlie-Alpha, Charlie-west, Charlie-Charlie, & Charlie-Delta, another was, Taxiway 1, 2, 3, 4 (though the tower often called them C1, C2, C3 to distinguish them from taxiways A1 and B1 & B2 which lead parallel to the runway... however this was not on any of the Charts); more so... the two systems started from different sides of the runway, so that the taxiway called 3(or C3) was Charlie-west not Charlie-Delta (the third taxiway in the direction of PanAm's movements)

[@Ometecuhtli]

Damn, as if watching football and having a burro for comfort wasn't enough ...

[@ExperimentIV]

honestly if you needs someone who knows a lot about planes for an episode someday... i have read far too much about plane incidents and almost know what i’m talking about so i think i am definitely qualified

[@ExperimentIV]

also im good at pronouncing all sorts of dumb shit and it’s perfect for dunking on

[@ExperimentIV]

also also, she/her

[@nearlyautomated5928]

going thru WTYP pod from newest to oldest and its amazing to see the birth of the God Damn News in this one. Also: HEAVILY disappointed that they never called 747s AirTrucks. wtf smh

[@icarus313]

When I saw the word 'Tenerife' I smashed that Like button so hard that my finger nearly punched through my phone screen. This is the kind of quality content that dreams are made of. Love you guys!

[@raptormaster666]

You'd think ramming something named "Resolute" was a bad idea to begin with, if I be honest. :P Score one for the Icebreakers.

[@nathaniellindner313]

Not to mention, cruise ships are serious vessels. RMS Olympic was, a century ago, (accidentally) rammed by the cruiser HMS Hawke, and the result was the prow of the Hawke was completely mangled while the Olympic suffered comparatively a good deal less structural damage. And modern warships don't have belt armor. Cruise ships (even at moderate size) are going to win any shoving match against anything outside of serious shipping vessels, and yeah the icebreaker part certainly helps.

[@Ometecuhtli]

Maybe they confused it with the false cognate "resolano", or sunbathing spot...

[@lfraser7128]

I know the perfect siren noise for you guys, the Ontario emergency alert noise

[@abandonedchannel281]

L Fraser Can confirm, it’s fucking earrape

[@MrxstGrssmnstMttckstPhlNelThot]

Pls no it's such an awful noise and we use it for every kind of alert natural disaster potential and Amber alerts. In the summer it can be so horrifying when you hear it and go "oh god oh fuck is there gonna be a tornado? A flood?" But then it's just some shitty missing kid on the other side of this massive fucking province I couldn't help even if I wanted to! Hate that noise! So it would make a perfect irritating siren for the Goddamned News segment.

[@MrxstGrssmnstMttckstPhlNelThot]

Seriously listen to this shit and freak out before the alert is read out telling you whether you're going to definitely die or some kid just got lost in North Bay or some shit! kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJCpnoCPo7qWe7M Use different sounds for these things AH!

[@gonzoengineering4894]

If you can dig up the 20s central committee transcripts, there is some premium Soviet ice cream discourse. 1 line laser etched into my brain is "We are not for ice cream production because we want children to have treats, we are for ice cream production because it is good and nutritious food."

[@Rolo-Tony]

Future episode: The US presidential election

[@r2dezki]

Which one?

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

@@r2dezki maybe just the whole system.

[@lithostheory]

Democratic primary

[@loplopthebird1860]

RIP Sanders :((((

[@JohnThelin]

Because Dutch is ridiculous, Geert Wilders' first name is pronounced "chaert", which I only mention because it sounds more or less like the Swedish word for "arse".