Welsh and Cornish languages compared - numbers and questions

Welsh and Cornish are both Celtic Languages, and even closer, they are both Brythonic or British Languages. For this language comparison we look at numbers and basic questions in these two languages to see how similar they are, and what is different.
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[@adrianjones8060]

They were undoubtedly the same Brythonic language at one point, but isolation,the Breton influence(post Norman conquest) and the prolonged Saxon influence would all have played a role in differentiating the two. But interestingly, a Cornish speaker once told me he found Old Cymraeg to be far easier to understand than modern Cymraeg…Either way, the Corn(horn) Welsh and the Welsh are one in the same people, with a shared ancient linguistic culture we should ALL take great pride in.😊

[@BenLlywelyn]

Indeed. We have a common British root of where we come from in a way no other culture can express, and it is beautiful.

[@ayangdidi5524]

The problem is following: Cornish ( Kerneweg) has no native speaker any more in contrary to Brittany ( I anm one of them) and Wales.

[@edwardsaulnier892]

I really enjoyed this video a lot. As a linguist, such comparisons of these two Brythonic Celtic languages, is very interesting. Yes, please provide more examples if you can. Thanks.

[@notmyrealname01]

Meur ras dhe hwei for your content, I really enjoyed this video. Having not learned much welsh (yet, but other celtic languages) I look forward to seeing much more about it along with the other celtic languages. There's a long and almost forgotten history of the Celtic tribes that needs to be brought to light.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Dynnargh.

[@xeviphract5894]

Yes please, more comparisons and divergences! It feels like word archaeology to reconstruct the language and see how it develops over time. I have been watching Stori'r Iaith on S4C and seeing the connections to millennia-old language is really tantalising, but they didn't have time for a deep dive.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Mae'n bwysig inni cadw S4C. A diolch yn fawr iawn, thank you very much.

[@mathewmorgan1876]

Do some more big boy! really enjoyed this. Diolch!

[@mathewmorgan1876]

Ma’ syniad ardderchog (yn fy marn i) gyda’r boi ma hefyd. Bydd e’n neis i clywed dy farn amdani mewn fideo! kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2jMY4Wrebehqpo

[@BenLlywelyn]

Syniad da.

[@larrydykes7643]

Very interesting study in how languages split and drift apart beginning with small differences in pronunciation and word choice. Thanks, Ben!

[@BenLlywelyn]

Welcome, Larry.

[@highestsprings]

Really interesting clip, thanks. Its good to see these languages surviving and growing. Thanks for the details. It is good to see the comparisons.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Thank you very much.

[@jillball1082]

I would love some videos like this

[@michaelschudlak1432]

Yes please do more. Love your content. Trist i weld chi gadel yr Gogledd.

[@bradwilliams7198]

In answer to your question, more videos like this would be wonderful!

[@BenLlywelyn]

Will be making a Welsh History series which take up a lot but I will get stuff like this out and back to languages.

[@joalexsg9741]

I so love them!Together with Breton, they make my favorite branch of the Celtic languages and I'm so grateful to the scholars of both these languages for having chosen a more faithful spelling to their pronunciation! The only Goidelic I'm managing to learn is Manx, due to their spellings being not too distant from the pronunciation, unlike the insanity that has been made to both Irish and Scottish Gaelic. Meus ras/ trugarez mad deoc'h/diolch yn fawr for this most interesting video😊❤🎉!

[@BenLlywelyn]

You are welcome. They are my favourite branch of Celtic too.

[@NeroPop]

rly good vid, always been curious as to the similarities as I always seem to pronounce cornish words in a welsh way haha

[@BenLlywelyn]

I suppose those of us used to Welsh are bias.

[@ajayempee]

Yeah definitely would like more Welsh/Cornish comparisons! Vocabulary such as animals, vehicles, clothes, furniture, colours, concepts e.g. big/little, long short etc., syntax similarities and differences, wh- question words, negating a noun/verb/adjective e.g. not food vs no food, not running, not funny, noun inflection including comparatives, superlatives... I could go on, but those are just a few videos I'd be interested in watching!

[@BenLlywelyn]

Thank you. Doing a Welsh History series a present, but you and a few others have said this and I am taking this on board for the future.

[@mawkernewek]

Gwaynya actually comes from French. An Gerlyver Meur translates gwayn as n. 'gain, win, profit, advantage' and gives its etymology as MidE < OldF gain. This makes it a later loan than the Saxon period.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Gain came into Saxon from Norse. So we are both half wrong and half right.

[@gillesauffret9739]

Gounid in Brezhonek. Gagner in French . Hwyl/Kenavo !.

[@tedi1932]

Such an interesting video comparing the Welsh and Cornish languages, I would love to hear more of the comparisons, the differences and the peculiarities. For example cael means to get in Welsh not to have. Mae gen i gi in North Wales or mae ci gyda fi in South Wales is how you say I have a dog etc. Is that the same with Cornish and with the other Celtic languages?

[@BenLlywelyn]

All Celtic Languages have a narrower set of verbs, so we use mutations, linking words and word structure to convey meanings which English and French use a wide variety of verbs for.

[@davythfear1582]

Yes, but Cornish has two ways of saying it. [1] Yma ki dhymm (there is a dog to me) - I possess a dog, [2] Yma ki genev vy (there is a dog with me) - the dog is with me right now. Irish uses 'ort' so 'a dog is at me'.

[@thraciensis3589]

I love the comparison of Brythonic Celtic languages. It is refreshing indeed!

[@BenLlywelyn]

Cheers!

[@thraciensis3589]

@@BenLlywelyn Cheers! May they thrive and spread all around Britain!

[@aledmorgan4889]

Really enjoyed this topic found it really interesting, I’m far from being a linguist but cymraeg is my first language. Just a few comments on what you covered , I found “Niverow” similar to the welsh word nifer or niferoedd in Cymraeg which also means numbers but just in a different context. I’d personally say “6 o clock” in welsh as “wech or gloch” which would be pronounced as “whech” which seems similar to Hwegh. Finally I also thought the word “devedhys” looks similar to the word “daethost” ( you came) which in everyday speech I’d use as “O ble dethes di?” or where did you come from? Ta beth dal ati gyda’r gwaith da !

[@BenLlywelyn]

Mae S deheuol y Gymraeg mor debyg i Gernyweg. Y Gogledd sydd wedi newid ei Chymraeg fwy na'r De mewn gwirionedd. Diolch.

[@megan89]

wnes i sylwi ar y ch->h mewn tafodiaith ddeheuol hefyd! mor ddiddorol sut mae perthynas clir rhwng Cymraeg deheuol a Chernyweg, mae’n gwneud gymaint o synnwyr yn ddaearyddol ond dwi’n teimlo fel ditectif yn pigo fyny ar y manylion bach fel ‘cliwiau’ yn nirgelwch yr hanes ieithyddol!

[@ayangdidi5524]

..c'hwec'h o kloc'h pe c'hwec'h eur e Brezhoneg

[@jnib6090]

Dude i love the 1990s edits in this!

[@BenLlywelyn]

Authenticity.

[@fredericosampaio6457]

Ben, if you happen to discuss further about kernevek, could you eventually mention about a kind of verb "to have" which was developed in breton based on the local verb "to be"? I don't know if my statement is correct.

[@BenLlywelyn]

I do not quite understand. Maybe you want to know more about how 'to have' works in Breton?

[@fredericosampaio6457]

@@BenLlywelyn yes, indeed 👍👍👍...if you ever slightly discuss breton👍

[@ENGLISHTAINMENT]

Celtic languages don't really have verbs. They have verb-nouns (verbal nouns).

[@BenLlywelyn]

@@ENGLISHTAINMENT We certainly have fewer verbs in Celtic languages as we use them quite differetly - whicg may be why English uses 'to do' and '-ing' so unlike other Germanic Languages.

[@ENGLISHTAINMENT]

@@BenLlywelyn glanhau'r car (the cleaning of the car) No verb here.

[@Melvorgazh]

Very interesting @Ben Llewelyn Please do more. I noticed on some examples how Cornish was slightly closer to Breton. I heard that Cornish had 2 spellings and there were some arguments having just one. In Welsh only one spelling is used, right? Or several? Pob hwyl

[@BenLlywelyn]

Cornish is most definitely closer to Breton. Fisherman used to communicate with each other. Welsh spelling has changed slowly, mostly around the age of printing the Bible and immediately after due to restrictions in type.

[@bradwilliams7198]

As I understand it, Cornish spelling was never really standardized before it died out as a community language. So two questions in the revival movement that have gone through many iterations and much debate: 1. What should be revived: Late Cornish (the most recent version spoken) or Middle Cornish (when it hadn't yet started to lose its identity)? And how to write it? There's also the question of pronunciation, as sound recording didn't exist when it was a community language. Analysis of Welsh, Breton, and song lyrics/poetry give pretty good guesses, but they're still guesses.

[@BenLlywelyn]

@@bradwilliams7198 Very true. The eloquent Cornish writing we have from the 14/1500s is very different from theater stages when words became much shorter and syntax much simpler - but it was still a community language even into the 1700s. So how do you include both?

[@kernowforester811]

Breton came from Cornish, so not suprising it is closer. As for the spellings, there is the old traditional system, called kemmyn (common) that is the common form used, and the newer anglicised spelling of 18th C Cornish - less said about that the better.

[@Melvorgazh]

@@kernowforester811 I'd prefer to learn Cornish with the original and not anglicised spelling. Which method would you recommend that uses that spelling?

[@morvil73]

The traditional way of asking someones name in Cornish is “Pe hanow o whei?” literally “Which name are you?”

[@BenLlywelyn]

That's unique. Thanks.

[@Knappa22]

Cornish preserves old forms because o lot of the language has been reconstructed from late medieval Cornish literature. My favourite is ‘skovarn’ the Cornish word for ‘ear’. Its cognate in Welsh is ‘ysgyfarn’ though the modern Welsh word is ‘clust’. However it lives on in the Welsh word ‘ysgyfarnog’ meaning ‘hare’ and literally mean ‘Eary’ or Big Ears I suppose 😂 Other brilliant ones are ‘llwynog’ (Bushy) for fox and ‘draenog’ (Thorny) for hedgehog.

[@BenLlywelyn]

I did mot know that about Ysgyfarnog. Nice value added.

[@otakuleveledup8458]

As an Englishman I think we should teach Welsh or Scottish to everyone in the Uk. It feels like we should learn about our good celtic brothers and learn a cool language. Tolkien knew welsh. It’s awesome.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Agree, thank you.

[@Hrng270]

Very nice video bro, UK and Ireland should be receltized today.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Be nice.

[@poncut5074]

I used to think that the native name of Cymru/Wales maybe had the same root origin as Kernow/Cornwall because they both start with c/k, but some quick lookups seem to indicate that it’s merely a coincidence, with some stating that Kernow/Cornwall is derived from a word meaning horn tribe, (found that the welsh word for horn is corn according to google translate, so I’d say that’s a substantiated theory) and Cymru being derived from a word meaning comrade countrymen.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Yes, the tribal group would have been from a British word for horn as well.

[@jameshumphreys9715]

Wal both in Cornwall and Wales have the same etymology meaning foreigner.

[@kernowforester811]

Cornish for Wales is Kembra, means comrade as well, I have seen in sme old placenames, such as 'chy kembro' or house of the Welshman. Interesting the b remained in the old Welsh word for 'Cumberland'! Generally, Cornwall is assumed to be a Cornish and English merger, i.e. land of the headland Welsh. From Bodmin.

[@ayangdidi5524]

Remember: a breton province is named Kerne and the dialect spoken in it " kernewek".

[@SionTJobbins]

the soft or loss of 'ch' at the beginning of words also happens in southern Welsh - chwech can be 'whech', also peder would be similar to what southern Welsh would say for pedair. So, we can see there were different accents within Brythoneg before the split. We see this in Breton where strawberries are something like the southern Welsh sifis, and out is 'er maez' (lit. to the field/meadow) which is exactly as in southern Welsh, maes, usually pronounced 'mâs'.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Absolutely. Nice word for strawberry, Syfi

[@ayangdidi5524]

Inyeresting= Dudius

[@Knappa22]

@SionTJobbins Yes. Cornish was more similar to the Wenhwyseg dialect of south Wales, now all but died out. Many believe that the big difference between north and south Welsh isn’t because of geography and distance but because they are literally different tribes - the North Walians being from the tribe of Cunedda that came down from the Old North, settled in Gwynedd and drove out the Irish. They brought with them the tales and literature of Taliesin and Aneirin. It would be so interesting had Cumbric survived so we could compare it with northern Welsh and see if it was as similar as Cornish is to southern Welsh.

[@rhysbroome7318]

No it’s not strawberry in Welsh is mefus I’m from south wales and we say mefus

[@rhysbroome7318]

@@ayangdidi5524interesting = diddorol 🤣

[@EnglishOrthodox]

Would’ve been cool If Cumbric and the language of the Brigantes survived.

[@joalexsg9741]

So true! There's one site, or perhaps even more than one by now, trying to reconstruct it, based on the hypothesis that a text written in a Medieval Welsh dialect would be actually Cumbric.

[@andycoles4588]

Diolch, Meur ras . Excellent video.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Meur ras.

[@I_hate_roads]

I've been trying to find out when Welsh developed it's "U" sound and if Cornish has it

[@BenLlywelyn]

Cornish has an historical break between vernaculars, so we will likely never know.

[@I_hate_roads]

@@BenLlywelyn Diolch

[@katyoduinn3452]

I've been taught to pronounced U as an English U in cornish, and pronounce U like an english I in welsh... For instance the colour black being Du in both languages but pronounced dee in welsh and doo in cornish

[@stella8726]

Cyntaf! Noswaith dda Ben. Diddorol iawn, ond…it’s twisting my melon! Some of the descendants of Yr Hen Ogledd went to live in Cornwall.

[@BenLlywelyn]

They very likely did, ond eto mae un peth... Cybi left Cornwall and came to Cymru. Caergybi.

[@TheKyleodgers]

Gromercy a hedna mêster Angwyn, Saw Why a vydn merkya -in Kernowek- rag 'Beth yw dy enw di' yth yw possybl 'Pëth yw dha hanow jy'. Me a grës tell owgh why den colodnek dhe vos ow côwsel adro dhe'n Sowsnek i'gan tavas ny. (Yma meur a ankencolon ino). Gen oll ow colon vy, Kyle

[@BenLlywelyn]

Meur ras an ensampel.

[@treecology]

saeth = arrow, saith = seven; pump (not pimp) = five

[@grahamfleming8139]

Scots borders Agus ghaidhlig Yin/and Twae Thrie Fowwer Fyvve Sax Seeven Ayte Nine Tenn Ghaidhlig Aon Dha Tri Ceithir Coig Sia Seach Ochd Naoi Deich Some different tongues o these eelanns.

[@timflatus]

Meur ras dhis rag henna. Cornish orthography is still under debate and there are still variations despite the existence of the SWF. Some people continue to use English loanwords because they are attested, others prefer to create neologisms and reconstructions based on similarities between Welsh and Breton. So you could "govyn kwestyon". Moy mar pleg!

[@BenLlywelyn]

Meur ras. Cornish (as a community language) was spoken for over 1000 years and more. Naturally what we have recorded varies and trying to choose the point from which to begin again was also an issue for Hebrew.

[@Lampchuanungang]

Hi ben tell me the news, ya moved from City? Where are you now?

[@BenLlywelyn]

South Wales

[@Lampchuanungang]

@@BenLlywelyn Whats City bro? Nice well vibes and energies for you.

[@BenLlywelyn]

@@Lampchuanungang Dinas = City

[@Lampchuanungang]

@@BenLlywelyn In Dinas, south Wales..

[@BenLlywelyn]

De Cymru

Interesting video which would have been infinitely more enjoyable without the annoying music which intruded throughout the video. There are some ancient numbering systems in the north of England used for counting farm animals that bear a strong resemblance to Welsh and Cornish numbers.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Thanks for watching.

[@morvil73]

12 in Cornish is “dewdhek” (not “dedhek” as you wrote).

[@BenLlywelyn]

Oops.

[@morvil73]

“devedhys” is stressed on the penultimate syllable “de-VEDH-iz”.

[@marchuws4993]

How come Devon isnt included with the Cornish cause? They must be the same people.

[@BenLlywelyn]

If convincing Cornwall to embrace its native language is a task, convincing Devon to embrace its native language will be a challenge.

[@ENGLISHTAINMENT]

diw vergh (nid 'diw fergh'). the weakening of CH begins as you move down from north Wales. So south Wales has a weaker CH sound, but in Cornwall and Brittany, it's even weaker. And in one dialect if Breton the C'H in the beginning of words is F. FEC'H = 6 (this C'H sound also being weak, like H) "A oes rhagor o fwyd?" "Eus moy a voos?" (Cornish has A to make questions but not before some words starting with vowels, like EUS. Not sure where the EZE came from. Doesn't seem correct. Also, not HANNOW but HANOW. Caru steil y fideo gyda'r gerddoriaeth.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Diolch. I used Omniglot, and the Online Cornish Dictionary and a couple others.

[@imprint2030]

Gool peran lowen! Happy st pirans day from cornwall (5th march woohoo)

[@BenLlywelyn]

Gool peran lowen.

[@aaronvaughn2671]

Scary how quickly people invite English words in, I hope your warning is heeded. Fideo da!

[@BenLlywelyn]

Ydy, Aaron! A diolch am y gefnogaeth.

[@davythfear1582]

English words have been borrowed and used by the Welsh spoken language for hundreds of years, just as English has borrowed so many words from other languages. Licio, joio etc are part and parcel of the Welsh language today and Welsh would be poorer without them and all of the other borrowing which aren't so obvious.

[@jameshumphreys9715]

Unec or Uneg probably be the Welsh for 11 if you took it from the Cornish.

[@BenLlywelyn]

True. A lost D would give Unneg

[@jameshumphreys9715]

@@BenLlywelyn I wasn't quote sure if they be a doubling of n

[@Lampchuanungang]

A pan celtic idiom that unite basque, breton,lepontic, cornish, scots, irish, welsh and britonic gonna be marvellous and healthy.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Lepontic is extinct.

[@Lampchuanungang]

@@BenLlywelyn Yes bro we all know this, but lepontic left a rich archive of words and phrases to be used in pan celtic idiom, that's our walkie in this talk now. The legacy of lepontic, celtiberic should be integrated in a pan celtic idiom. All celtics countries gonna gain more speakers of celtic culture and idioms.🥂🥂🥂🥂🥂🥂🥂🥂

[@realitywins9020]

@@Lampchuanungang Basque is completely unrelated to Celtic

[@realitywins9020]

@@Lampchuanungang I'm all for reviving languages like Lepontic, Gaulish and Celtiberian. But a pan Celtic idiom would be self defeating. The point should be to revive and maintain our individual languages and dialects, while celebrating the links we have with one another

[@Hrng270]

@@realitywins9020 Not is the roots, walks and logic of celtic league of nations, they wanna be a common celtic to preserve specific and common cultures. Here in 21th century its gonna be a reality. Celtic cultures are dissapearing of britain Islands and in eire.

[@rhysbroome7318]

Got quite a few things wrong in this video about Welsh 👎👎

[@BenLlywelyn]

ok.

[@newg4515]

Comparing the two, it seems Cornish reverted to having a final Syllable like a/i, i was wondering the cause of this and looked into the Brythonic new quantity system (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Quantity_System#Rules) adopted in in the early first millennium which welsh seems to have stuck to while cornish has gone back to the ancient way of speaking, you can see how similar cornish used to be to welsh (using ai and words ending with t becoming s like nant/nans) until other languages such as french and english impacted it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_phonology#Late_Cornish_c.1600_%E2%80%94_1800_AD good video and interesting stuff!

[@BenLlywelyn]

Meur ras / Thank you. Yes, Cornish used to be much closee to Welsh. In its later stages After 1550 as it was shrinking Westward, Cornish deteriorated, took in more and more English (and French actually) and changed quite fast.