Were Penalties To Norris And Perez Fair? | Jolyon Palmer's F1 TV Analysis | 2021 Austrian Grand Prix

[@bravo100th]

I love how unnecessarily intense the intro theme is.

[@lucasalexeipinkly706]

I know right, I get pumped up everytime

[@TheBlackopsbeast360]

It’s funny with his little smile. Doesn’t fit the music at all

[@patrickwienhoft7987]

The track is Bow by Nutty P btw in case anyone wondered

[@stefanoe.m.1540]

On the other hand the outro song gives a sense of release which makes sense after JP's clarifications haha

[@kermit90210]

Bop

[@kazimraza6278]

Russel and Alonso later in the race demonstrated much better example of "hard racing".

[@xxxzzz9327]

tbf, Russell is on another level.

[@goldenrevolver4460]

they did give russell a black and white flag for his defending style while he was defending against alonso. the fia was this close to also giving him a penalty

[@timbraska6750]

@@goldenrevolver4460 But that was for moving under breaking no?

[@nondos9742]

Great defending from Russell and they way Alonso set up the move laps in advance was just a thing of beauty. Much better racing than just going full send any chance they get

[@deliberation6022]

@@goldenrevolver4460 yeah his defending was very aggressive but I think it was warranted he really really wanted that spot. And if it was really worth a penalty then Alonso would have been yelling on the radio or something but he didn’t seem to think it was unfair.

[@alexmason7103]

So many languages in the world, and this man chose *facts*

[@mr.izanami1796]

@@staymadclown_ Handegg*

[@thalesrodrigo8452]

@@staymadclown_ ⚽ this is a football, believe you are a bit confused there

[@ct8618]

@@thalesrodrigo8452 Save your breath man, its futile. He's a Pats fan lol

[@carowithacam5695]

Jajaja I loved this

[@f.r.y5857]

@@staymadclown_ gtf outta here

[@MrFeldo]

That is the problem, the inconsistency of the Penalties. Would that be always a penalty, than there would be no problem. But since the example showed that on race it is okay to do it and in the other one is is illeagel. They have to make up their mind with it.

[@MGK-fm9hc]

I think the FIA have to start using the black/white flag more to still have drivers racing but also making it clear if they can't do something again

[@sadikurrahman4833]

@@MGK-fm9hc But then more people will be pushing to do it once at least, knowing that they can get away with it once.

[@okamileek006]

@@sadikurrahman4833 maybe make it so that black and white affects any infraction (like track limits) and not just pushing them of track, for instance, the reverse can also happen (black and white for track limits, push wide and penalty)

[@sadikurrahman4833]

@@okamileek006 Knowing the Fia they wouldn’t even be able to be consistent with that and remember all of the previous incidents that happened

[@MrFeldo]

@@sadikurrahman4833 That is the major problem. It does not matter what the Rules are. The FIA simply has to be consistent with the Penalties. In my eyes, now every time such an incident happen like Perez and Norris there has to be a 5 second penalty. Yes it may be hard but than at least the drivers know what is allowed and what not. It can not be that the same incident on another track than goes unpunished. Make it the same for every track.

[@Matt-xn7nt]

Absolutely agree with his point at the end: Perez cannot be overtaken if everytime he defends the inside, and forces drivers who try to overtake on the outside off of the track. People who defend this are just asking for the only action we see to be boring DRS passes, because there will be no alternative

[@yuriz7947]

But I don't think it was deliberate, just like with Perez and Norris wasn't deliberate. They just carry lots of momentum into those corners. The gravel is the problem in my opinion, because if you remember the Leclerc vs Verstappen battle on Silverstone in 2019, it was great racing to watch because there was no gravel. I'm not encouraging overtaking off the track, but the gravel just kills the battle instantly. These penalties are only given because of the gravel.

[@JebJulian]

Cheers Matt well put. Only thing I can think of is having Alternate racing lines. But yeah there's only one optimal. Do enjoy Kimi's overtakes where he forces defense and sets up for the next corner though

[@ronwiesel5120]

@@yuriz7947 In each instance it is possible for the car on the inside to apply more trailbraking to ensure that you don't run wide. But in many cases you lose the place because of that. The Drivers know that and just state, that their steering wheel was fully locked so that they could not have done anything about it. I believe the driver on the inside should only be allowed to push the oone on the outside off, if he was clearly behind in the braking zone, or, if the one on the outside has much fresher tyres, if he was clearly behind at the apex

[@Matt-xn7nt]

@@yuriz7947 But when there is no gravel people complain the race is boring and that they hate track limits being enforced 🤷‍♂️ for me it's simple: Force another car off the track and it impacts their race (ie they lose positions or fall far behind) is a 5/10 sec penalty, force another car into a runoff area and they can continue the battle is a black and white flag. That way they give the opportunity for the racing to continue without applying a penalty if possible

[@ohhDarkstar]

this is how racing has been for ever, don't come here and try to change it all of a sudden, it more a problem of the cars than the rules.

[@yindyamarra]

And yet Alonso and Russell raced lap after lap side by side and never touched ,

[@erdiro129]

The drivers are hypocrits. When they are on the inside, they think everything was ok, but when they are on the outside line everyone complains about being pushed of.

[@truedarklander]

@@erdiro129 I mean, Perez didn't make the complaint

[@hamzterix]

fighting for a single point vs fighting for podium. Big difference. They wouldn't be that gentle

[@erdiro129]

And my respect for Russell went up even more. ↗️↗️↗️ Enjoyed that battle

[@SirJohnsonP]

@@truedarklander he said the same second he finished in the gravel “He forced me off”

[@brentsaelens3174]

The battle of George and Fernando was amazing. No pushing wide, lots of respect, and fair racing.👍

[@Smainchoker]

Missed opportinity for Palmer to quote Alonso "You always need to leave a space"

[@TheLibermania]

"What a yoke" that would've been.

[@chazzabfc]

He cut his chicken

[@chazzabfc]

He needed to give it back

[@squidcaps4308]

* "You always need to leave da space"

[@TeamSukiyo]

*Karma*

[@collin7631]

I think that this has likely been the best Analysis of the season so far! Really broke down the penalties and lack-thereof through this push-wide tactic. Keep it up guys terrific job!

[@kartikgill7019]

Who else just loves his analysis? Better caster Palmer!

[@sofrimiento]

Yep, I love his analysis!

[@liljay4875]

' l seguro 8 7u7iii8 9otras h Que le

[@Rangifulla]

Shame about the pay wall

[@Nickelodeon81]

@Kyle Miller he would have to leave his current co-commentator role with BBC Radio 5 to do that.

[@johnpudney1266]

This guy should be a steward for F1...

[@WilGreen13]

Last lap 2020 Styrian GP, Lando goes round the outside of Stroll at T4, identical to the Perez/Norris move. Stroll gives Lando racing room, no gravel, Stroll keeps the position. None of the "giving up the corner" as Karun said, great, FAIR racing

[@defnotatroll]

Yes!

[@Lowdo1549]

There was no gravel because Lando backed out of it, quite clearly :)

[@WilGreen13]

@@Lowdo1549 Have you watched it? He literally is along side him until after the exit of the corner… You can find the 2020 Styrian GP highlights on the F1 channel

[@WilGreen13]

@@Lowdo1549 The time stamp for that video is 4:29 if you want to see them still side-by-side on the exit…

[@Lowdo1549]

@@WilGreen13 hey Will. Cheers for that. Lando clearly backs off… why would he do that? Because if he doesn’t, he’s going in the gravel. No way a driver would back out of a move if there was a sniff of making it stick, especially with 1.5 laps to go.

[@zhaviator]

The Fernando vs George battle shows how it's done properly with mutual respect between the drivers, honestly that's far more enjoyable to watch than 1 driver push the other off the track.

[@_qwe_fk_1700]

and Fernando vs Kimi

[@jesper4956]

Keep in mind though that Fernando never went around the outside, he backed out every time whereas Checo and Leclerc just sent it impatiently

[@_qwe_fk_1700]

@@jesper4956 the go watch Kimi vs Fernando

[@zhaviator]

@@jesper4956 Fernando did go around the outside once in T4 and once in T6, he just lost the next corner, and he never had to put a wheel on gravel.

[@fabian.a.p]

@@jesper4956 Ye, Alonso got all his wheel on the gravel. That's literally the same thing as Checo and Leclerc.

[@boxingtechniquevideos5755]

Fia: you are not allowed to force your rival off into a gravel trap

[@boxingtechniquevideos5755]

@@oaz8 Vettel crashed by himself in the gravel in Germany 2018

[@sadikurrahman4833]

@@oaz8 Why’re you asking about something that cannot be dealt with 3 years later?

[@mohammadryanfadhillah5577]

russell vs alonso and kimi vs alonso in this gp is the perfect example of CLEAN and hard racing

[@staymadclown_]

FOOTBALL 🏈 IS THE GREATEST SPORT IN EXISTENCE!

[@Durptankgobrrr]

@@staymadclown_ u mean 'american' football

[@Tech-cy9yo]

@@Durptankgobrrr if you live in the US, you don’t include the American part. That’s like going to Italy and asking for an Italian pizza. Like just say pizza

[@danielyt9887]

@Mohammad Ryan Fadhillah Yeah, because all the drivers that were going on the inside, they leave enough space for the one that was going round the outside :v

[@fabian.a.p]

@@Tech-cy9yo Well, what the world know about football is this ⚽, not this 🏈 m

[@UvanSankar]

Russell and Alonso were a perfect example ok how to do wheel-to-wheel racing. They were side by side in turn 6 and Russell did give Alonso enough space on the outside but still he kept the position. Then the wheel-to-wheel racing continued for few more laps until Alonso eventually got past Russell. This was hard racing, fair racing, and clean racing. Perez and Norris should take a look at Russell and Alonso's battle.

[@ronwiesel5120]

There was one instance where Alonso had a Look in Turn 4 but rather than sticking it on the outside, he did the switch-a-roo with a sharp angle und better traction. If he had continued on the outside, he would habe been pushed off. I believe in that battle it was Alonso who acted wisely, which made it fair. But I don't think that they should always surrender the corner, when they are on the outside in Turn 4. In both the Perez-Norris and the Hamilton-Albon case, the spirit of the rules should force Norris/Hamilton too apply some more trailbraking after the apex to ensure that they don't run wide. But as Jolyon rightly points out, that should first be clearly communicated. I think the Verstappen-Hamilton case in Portimao is different though. Hamilton was clearly ahead before the braking zone and was not on much older tyres

[@RodHammett95]

and it was an amazing battle, I want battles that last more than 1 corner

[@GamezGuru1]

Perfect breakdown by Jolyon, this is why fans get annoyed - inconsistent application of the rules, and often the penalty being depending on the effect, not the cause.

[@Screwy23]

Exactly. If Perez didn't lose so many positions and kept it in control like leclerc did in the gravel Lando would not have been given a penalty. Like the example jolyon gave with max and Lewis in Portugal. Had Perez backed off like verstappen did we wouldn't have had all this controversy

[@fabian.a.p]

@@Screwy23 I think it's more of how they enter the gravel, Perez is facing to the barrier a little (Because of the understeer amd avoiding probably?) and Charles facing more to the idk how to say this but you get it i think lol

[@raduantoniu]

It seems to me the stewards hand out penalties based on the outcome of an incident rather than the legality of the move itself. In this case they probably penalized Lando because Perez lost a lot of places. If this happened later in the race and Perez somehow did not lose any positions I doubt they would have given Lando a penalty.

[@nicolasestrella7735]

That’s sooooo unfair tho

[@stojo33]

So true! So inconsistent!

[@DedicationSi]

The big complaint about F1 is a lack of overtaking, but we'd say way more if drivers gave each other more space. No need for big rule changes or track overhauls.

[@Mali-qw7hx]

Thank you Jolyon. Finally not a person who claims "we wanna see hard racing" when this isn't hard nor racing at all. It's literally impossible to overtake someone if all they do is cover the inside and push the driver off. Actually no im wrong. There still is a chance to pass someone and that is an easy DRS overtake where the attacking driver gets ahead before the corner and then he covers the inside. Im sure a DRS pass would be soooooo exciting guys.

[@_qwe_fk_1700]

100% agree, people moan about the fact that we only have DRS overtakes on straights and no overtakes in corners, but if pushing others cars off track is allowed then we will only see DRS overtakes on straights because if you overtake on the outside if is your own fault if you get pushed off track.

[@_qwe_fk_1700]

@@333mystic being on the inside does not give you the right to the racing line. Nice that it is for you but that nowhere in the rules. But being on the inside gives you the right to push other cars off?

[@thelegendformula6695]

The car that is ahead has the right of way

[@gtray7]

@Mitch THANK YOU… overtaking requires track awareness from the driver doing the overtaking. In this situation Perez ran himself off the track. A driver should not be expected to concede a position because another wants to drive recklessly in order to gain on him. There are better places and corners to pass on track. I agree, sir.

[@_qwe_fk_1700]

@@gtray7 why was Perez reckless, Lando was behind an then just braked super late. Perez was ahead before going into the corner

[@MartinoMaroso]

9:05 onwards - Thank you, thank you thank you. If we want better duels, people should be able to try overtaking without being sent off!

[@bozzie_]

But at the same time it's irresponsible to go into a battle that depends on your rival acquesing to your overtake for it to be successful - which, as a racing driver, the're not going to do. See Leclerc's second overtake attempt on Perez as an example. He drove into a fastly closing wedge; what did he think was going to happen?

[@carlossolrac84]

@@bozzie_ if you can always close the door then there wont be any overtaking in the outside, ever

[@indiebekonn]

@@bozzie_ being on the inside technically is hoping that your rival will compromise his line and not push you off the track at apex as well. When there are two cars side by side at the entry and through the corner then both have to compromise. No one is entitled to the corner and line if they’re not in front.

[@metaltyre4894]

So he was penalised not because he pushed him off its because he pushed him on gravel which ruined checo's race

[@carlossolrac84]

but checo did not ruin leclercs race and yet checo got penalized, so i dont think that is the case

[@metaltyre4894]

@@carlossolrac84 but as palmer said if norris is given the penalty then they should also penalize checo also because it would've been unfair

[@dkhemmen]

I love that this on the offical F1 channel and that they allow critical examination of their (/the FIA's) decisions

[@erikkz]

Can F1 just have Jolyon on as a permanent steward? This guy makes more sense than the current stewards.

[@istherenofreename]

Everything was nicely explained, but what finally is he verdict? I think he agrees with the penalties, but he would not have given them in the past?

[@Timberwolf69]

@@istherenofreename His verdict is that the penalties (5 sec, I think) are okay, if they are applied with consistency. Which the recent stewardship lacks of quite badly.

[@erikkz]

@@istherenofreename no consistency over the season or with previous season so in this case a penalty wouldn't be right in the Perez/Norris incident. He views the Perez/Leclerc incidents differently and thinks these do warrant a penalty. Although he keeps pointing to the fact that the stewards need to be (more) consistent.

[@jogb9515]

Excellent review. And highlights something we see too often in F1: stewards penalizing the outcome rather than the act, leading to a lack of clarity for the drivers.

[@toptanupat]

Palmer is right, FIA is just so inconsistent

[@ivan_pozdeev_u]

Yet I can only applaud them for doing the right thing. Better late than never.

[@theGoogol]

The penalties should be consistent, not just over one race but for as long as the rules are clearly stipulated and unchanging.

[@Gengar094]

This pushing drivers off the track is the reason we don't see wheel to wheel action

[@fussel2107]

The problem is, the driver won't know where they stand moving forward, because next race, it will be fine again. And THAT is the problem. Or it won't be appllied to everybody. See Leclerc abusing the habit of not handing out penalties for first lap incidents. I mean, he regularly pushes people off or takes them out and has THREE penalty points, whereas Norris, who is an extremely clean racer, is looking at a race ban. Which brings up another point of punishing drivers for team errors but that's a different conversation

[@_qwe_fk_1700]

Also Leclerc just goes for every gap in the first lap no matter how small they are , this weekend others had to avoid him because he just sent it down the middle

[@hellnah5727]

@@_qwe_fk_1700 "If you no longer go for a gap that exists you are no longer a racing driver" - Ayrton Senna :) It's funny how people praise Senna for being a brave, ballsy driver, but are now turning against drivers like Leclerc because they don't... support Ferrari I presume? Also if you are talking about the gap that was between Russell and Vettel (turn 3), that was a pretty obvious gap that any racing driver would fill lol - it's literally their job to be racey.

[@oscarshen6855]

Very glad Palmer didn't jump on the "hard racing" train. This is no professional standard hard racing, this is what people do in online lobbies. If you don't know how to share the track with others and aways say something like "this is my corner", you are no longer a racing driver.

[@C3l3bi1]

Senna disagrees, and so do pretty much all the drivers of the past. IF you are "sharing" track in a situation like that you are losing its funny FIA will make vieos about the greatness of legends like "senna" or "Schumacher" but then talk about penalties to people because they take a faster line and cover the side to prevent a overtake The absolute hypocrisy of this

[@genesises]

@@C3l3bi1 times change, drivers want to stay alive too. funny how your argument is only used with drivers that aren't here to say it themselves in context.

[@C3l3bi1]

@@genesises Would be funny to hear them talk about it, because i can guarantee you they would still never accept this nonsense hypocrisy

[@gtdriver241]

if you give too much space and let everyone through, you are no longer a racing driver.

[@arturoespino7950]

@@gtdriver241 Alonso disagrees

[@GARBO96]

Until they finally realize that the only way to get consistent rulings will be to keep the same stewards for the entire season we're going to have stupidly inconsistent rulings That's just how life works each incident is viewed differently through a different set of eyes That's like basic common sense yet F1 still fails to realize this

[@ragemydream]

Does anyone know why this isn't enforced? Is it because being a Steward is voluntary and not paid?

[@ragemydream]

@awezmo I don't know, I was asking the question?Stewards definitely change every race.

[@dparag14]

So now you blame F1 fans? Wow, thats a first

[@GARBO96]

@awezmo The stewards are different for every race

[@GARBO96]

@@dparag14 🤡🤡🤡 please tell me where I mentioned fans anywhere in my comment

[@tpottrell]

I just dont agree with the whole "push someone off" tactic at all. I agree that Lando was unfairly punished here, given the previous incidents being ignored - but there should be a zero tollerance across the board - treat the edge of the track as if there was a wall there and show respect to your opponents. Just look at Alonso and Russel, thats how it should be!

[@2811JPR]

As a Pérez fan, I was furious when Norris squeezed him off track. But when he did the same to Leclerc I was just as upset. Really wasn't a great performance by Checo this Sunday.

[@imyourcreeptonight]

Fue como ver de regreso al Checo de 2017,perdiendo la cabeza como novato,indefendible lo que hizo con Leclerc.Pesima actuacion cuando practicamente ya se daba por hecho su renovacion.

[@2811JPR]

@@imyourcreeptonight 100% de acuerdo. Esperemos que haya aprendido algo de ello.

[@vincevanderperre8660]

Just because you like a driver doesn’t mean he can’t do anything wrong. The amount of Lando fanboys saying it is not a penalty is ridiculous, he just didn’t gave space and Checo had every right to make the move, a lot of people do it. Perez his penalty’s are deserved aswell, maybe not the second one but still, ALL THE TIME YOU HAVE TO LEAVE THE SPACE

[@spoot]

He wouldn't have made the turn with the line he took, braked far too late

[@TheBest14184]

In saying that, even if lando wasn’t there, Checo wasn’t even going to make the corner carrying that much speed

[@vzo14]

Did u not see landos steerimg wheel locked to the right...y must he leave his racing line n compromise his speed just bcos perez is on his outside....perez shidve known better....

[@lunaAvA]

right.. everyone praising Norris when he started everything. If he got away with it why Perez couldn't then race hard then...

[@TheJokerit19]

Russell-Perez & Vettel-Gasly incidents on the same corner brought me here. More or less entirely identical in angle & everything.

[@joaopinto415]

Jolyon has really nailed it this season!

[@josephyau979]

This is some of the best analysis on this issue I've seen yet. It is hard to divorce context from the act. If I push someone on a swing vs push someone in a crowd, vs push someone off a cliff, the act is all the same, but penalties aren't. Why can't drivers/stewards exercise the same judgement?

[@UtkuTurgut]

I still don't get how Verstappen's move on Leclerc back in Austria 2019 was not a penalty. He tried the same thing just a lap before, and both of them made the corner just fine, but Max couldn't overtake Charles. But next lap, he knew what he had to do and forced him off the track, and he even bumped wheels with him. I mean when you take a look at the previous lap, it's just enough evidence for a penalty, and this was a move for a win!

[@eggy6857]

Max backed out before being forced off.

[@jasonfiglioli6660]

Alonso and Russell showed everyone how it’s supposed to be done, other drivers should watch their battle and try to learn something.

[@kein_humor3933]

Note: Just divebomb up the inside and its completely legitimate to push the driver on the outside off. Edit: If there's tarmac on the outside obviously.

[@gimlu98]

tbh he was comparing it to other "forcing off" but everytime it was still on tarmac and never into a gravel pit with loosing 6-7 positions. Maybe thats a factor for giving norris a penalty.

[@defnotatroll]

If Max did that to Leclerc and there was gravel on the outside it would've been a penalty

[@VelTomic]

@@gimlu98 Correct. The gravel is the main difference to the others. Didn't Lewis get a penalty on the same corner when he pushed Albon off?

[@LordBillington42]

Also, divebomb round the outside and force your opponent to either back out or get a penalty. Either way you win (as long as there is tarmac run off, not gravel).

[@kein_humor3933]

@@VelTomic Yeah but thats wrong. There shouldnt be a difference between these two. If you push someone off, you pushed someone off, not matter what's on the outside of the corner. With the current rules you could literally just divebomb someone and push him off if there's tarmac on the outside.

[@PoYenTseng]

Coming back to this video after HAM-VER in Brazil.

[@Standaardnaam]

Great analysis. I think we should get calls like these more often. Leaving the space seems more fair and encourages exciting racing.

[@wernerheenop]

I love the show! Excellent analysis in every episode. I have watched about 10 guys analyse this exact incident and Jolyon's is by far the most objective, most complete and comes to a clear conclusion.

[@SAMX4949]

I think the biggest distinction to last weekend is the fact that Checo dropped to P10 because he went into gravel and not a tarmac run off and not just lose his position to Norris.

[@TheBest14184]

And that’s Landos fault how?

[@tonycox5625]

Checo knew that there was gravel, he made the choice to try the move and it just didn't work out. Nothing to do with Lando and no penalty needed. 👍

[@lunaAvA]

@@TheBest14184 yeah by not leaving space ! Side by side !

[@marcoc4932]

Great analysis Jolyon, and some well made points. Always worth a look.

[@mikelewis495]

"It feels a bit harsh for someone who's driven in the same manner" KARMA!

[@FencelineFilms]

Exactly what I was thinking

[@KalenvS]

"It's the inconsistency that's always the problem." What a great quote.

[@canchero724]

Interesting that he didn't choose to look at the Alonso Räikkönen battle in the same race who managed to both go through turn 4 side by side. That's how racing should be.

[@ajunta2270]

Yeah that was a perfect bit of racing

[@kimiicemanmz]

Jolyon is getting better with every episode...he's the perfect man to explain things whether you're watching F1 since the 1950s or your fresh on board. Mr. Palmer we salute you...fire boom fire boom fire boom!

[@ellazychavito9222]

I think the ruling should be the same no matter what’s off track but they track should define how drivers drive

[@Lowdo1549]

Agreed It's ludicrous that gravel is the determining factor here. Like Palmer pointed out, Norris took the racing line at turn 1, can you imagine that getting a penalty? May as well go home and not bother.

[@TheBest14184]

@@Lowdo1549 tbh I’m starting to again see why they moved away from gravel traps. They just cause to many hard to judge situations

[@BallisticTech]

I think in 2019 Max's move was more deliberate and in that regards worse. He missed the apex, reacted to the positioning of Charles and pushed him off track. Either that or he wasn't in control of his car. On the flip side Charles starts to turn in, sees Max isn't turning in yet or as much and takes avoiding action already compromising his line. If drivers know they aren't allowed to do this they would lift so the car doesn't "naturally" track out to the exit of the corner and leave the other car space. That would leave them compromised. Especially since the outside line could be carrying more speed and win out if they're wheel to wheel. But the ISC regulations say a driver can't hinder another by crowding them off the track. The ISC regs, Stewarding, and Driver's "Unwritten" rules need to come into alignment because it's quite frustrating for fans.

[@MarJov]

In Gasly's case it should 100% be a penalty for "Leaving the track and gaining advantage".

[@hellknightf1]

No he shouldn't have, and he didnt gained any advantage, if at all he lost time to the car in front, what you're looking for is perhaps "Failing to lose a position" but that's harder to prove, unless a driver completely cut a corner to avoid losing a position, and even then we've witnesed times when drivers get away with cutting a corner 3 times before being told to give the position to the driver trying to overtake.

[@igisanchez265]

@@hellknightf1 Prove he didn't gain an advantage. Where are the numbers?

[@ChrisMcLaren666]

@@hellknightf1 what th f...? He was well behind Norris, he gained the position back by going off track. What you're talking about?

[@zyxwl2015]

@@hellknightf1 He gained a position on Norris. Definition of "gaining an advantage"

[@hellknightf1]

@@zyxwl2015 are you guys new to Formula one or what? There's literally been worse offenders and never got an penalty, so I don't see how Gasly would get a penalty.

[@antpeters]

Very fair look at all the incidents with fair comparison to previous similar issues. It's clear that what the FIA have a problem with is drivers forcing rivals on to GRAVEL or GRASS and effectively 'ruining' their race. Pushing someone off on to huge run off areas is not seen as dangerous or worth a penalty (even though it's technically the same offence). FIA neeeeeeed to make a clarification on this ASAP!

[@crappytoast2441]

But how is the Perez defense against Leclerc not fair then??? I'm so confused at why Perez should be penalised for the same thing as Norris but norris shouldn't be...???

[@avbwubus]

because Lando is British

[@Chuyew]

@ CrappyToast Maybe difference was that Leclerc was more ahead in the apex.

[@broughy23]

Cracking analysis Jolyeon. It all boils down to inconsistencies with the stewards. One week pushing someone wide is legal the next it's illegal? How are drivers supposed to know what day it is? Its almost as embarrassing as VAR in football

[@LineMUp321]

The whole video could have been summed up as... "can we just have consistency" which the stewards THIS RACE were since every time a driver was forced off the offending driver got a 5sec penalty.

[@AMPJ08]

You could have shown Raikonnen vs Alonso on the same race! There you have the clean racing

[@johnsonian99]

If you want to do penalties for it, fine. Handing out points to the drivers for this is just dumb.

[@grojas1694]

Best explanation I've seen, thanks for the video!

[@chippy2097]

To me the Checo-Norris penalty seems clearly the right decision

[@bo5ibbs]

Why does this 3 year old video look like it was recorded in 1995? lol. Still love it and as always, great work from JP

[@vatsalsingh1179]

Perez : Norris pushed me off Engineer : Copy that Perez *copies that*

[@vatsalsingh1179]

@FunMedia185 irony😅

[@hannesflo]

Phenomenal episode! Well explained and I agree with you (in this case).

[@herobrinenuno]

just need to look at russel and alonso, great and clean racing

[@shoo_nl]

this man should be the perm head steward at all grand prix

[@MrMW2nd]

Stewards in recent years: the car ahead gets the racing line and dictates the corner Stewards in Austria: nahhh nevermind

[@McDaaniels]

HAM and VER in Portugal was the same. Gravel on the outside, defending driver takes to the kerb, no space on the outside. The difference was that VER backed out of the move and lifted off. PER tried to keep it and took to the gravel. NOR was penalised because PER didn't admit his defeat.

[@cfctvaus]

in conclusion, the fact that Verstappen was allowed to keep his 2019 win over Leclerc is the most ridiculous thing of all time.

[@Gorilla_warfare]

In hindsight it was pretty shameful. Basically shunted him off the track lol

[@joineralbert2493]

I think shumacher allowed to keep his championship after barging into Hill is !

[@MM-vr8rj]

Well Leclerc literally did the same thing to Verstappen and he wasn't penalized either. I think the difference is that there was room for the driver on the outside to continue racing even if it was technically off the track. Leclerc decided to steer into Verstappen instead of hanging on, on the outside of the track like Verstappen did when Leclerc forced him wide.

[@Gorilla_warfare]

@@joineralbert2493 true. Schumacher did a few pretty dodgy things and even though I was like 12 at the time, I still remember the commentators attempting to justify his actions when he rammed cars he couldn’t catch. It was egregious, but no one really held him to account with a lack of accountability in the sport.

[@tt5570]

Thanks for the analysis!

[@osirisgolad]

I could not agree more with every single thing he said.

[@mcfc6320]

Thank you for this video. I was very confused and obviously I'm not the only one. Gasly was a great example. It had been in my mind and how it was going to play out for the rest of the season. There will be more of this as the season goes. Pace is being matched at the top now. Thanks again.

[@Barceman]

Just imagine everyone do this kind of racing line is king stuff in a city track, say baku turn 19 and 20. It is just a balance between hard racing and safe racing, I think thats why the FIA handed different decision depending what's the surface on the run out area. Is it fair, probably not, but IMO it's kinda reasonable.

[@GonzoDonzo]

Why not just lung in on the outside everytime if the driver on the inside dominate line has to allow you space? Going around the outside has always posed the risk of the door being shut in your face. Thats why we want the inside line. How do you also defend a corner? Hard to decide if you keep the inside line or not if you cant own a line. Its almost like they want to turn F1 into slot car racing

[@assootoshmotah2350]

@@GonzoDonzo well what do you want, people not giving each other space at each corner. I get your point but what they are doing is not F1 racing but bumper cart racing. There should be a balance between what is right and what is wrong.

[@Barceman]

@@GonzoDonzo The car ahead can always choose which side to defend, if he truly think going outside can exit fastest, then he can give up the inside line, so the attacker need to take the inside and risk a penalty if he pushes u off. My point is it is very danger if anyone do it in a city track, therefor FIA need to come up with a solution.

[@ELSTERLING]

Absolutely agree with the conclusion here.

[@stevewogan]

"I can't see the difference..." - I can, Max completely missed the apex and Norris didn't. The wrong move was penalised!

[@stevewogan]

4:00

[@DavidCP524]

How many times did Lewis do that to Nico and it was never even noted.

[@ΓιώργοςΟικονομίδης-ρ1δ]

@@DavidCP524 nico to Lewis

[@DavidCP524]

@@ΓιώργοςΟικονομίδης-ρ1δ I recall Nico trying it and getting penalised.

[@G4B_]

Yea but u can’t take the apex into consideration, it doesn’t mean anything turn 3

[@arthurdent9160]

If we don't want overtakes around the outside to all but die out, these sort of penalties have to be dealt out. Great analysis!

[@powerofdreamx]

Lando simply didn't leave space nor from his steering angle even had control to leave space. Alonso vs Russel is a great example how to race and leave space. I agree with the opportunity for consistency and look to see this style "sending it" through corners which denies the possibly of wheel to wheel racing penalized.

[@chaitanyapatil1246]

mate just shut up and watch mario cart or make a track lines like u see in 100m races..

[@mauroeramos]

Excelent analysis!

[@jackjon7763]

We want hard racing not drives nearly killing each other by forcing them into walls or gravel etc. and this wasn’t gonna be a one corner overtake. Checo and lando would have been going back and forth for laps.

[@acenarula]

Absolutely love this analysis- i am a Checo supporter but what he did to Charles on 2 occasions in that GP was just not F1 racing. George and Fernando battled through pretty much the same corners without one trying to force the other off.

[@adrianapapado3417]

Me having the volume to 200% and trying to remember all the english words that I know to understand what is happening 👌👌

[@Gorilla_warfare]

This is close to my favourite f1 content! Jolyon is also great on the bbc chequered flag podcast.

[@paulmartom]

Yes I’m for keeping giving penalties in those cases, forcing driver off the track is not fair racing, I never liked that

[@grog6250]

great video wasnt really sure what the issue was this made it very clear thanks!

[@viksjolt1]

so at the end in this video is joylon suggesting that perez pushing someone out is wrong but there's no problem with lando doing the same, 'consistency is the key', did f1 stewards write the script for this video???

[@squerrl5851]

Try watching the video again. Palmer says the penalty was wrong because it was inconsistent with the previous rulings, not because driving someone off the track is okay. Plus, Checo did it twice, and with contact.

[@viksjolt1]

@@squerrl5851 uuuhhhh yeah, I did watch the video 'again', before commenting and wrote 'consistency is key' highlighting the lack of consistency on Palmer's part comparing the 3 incidents, perhaps you should watch the video again. I mean he spent 75% of the video just talking about the Lando and Perez incident and hardly 10 seconds on Perez and Leclerc incidents. He tried his best making excuses for Lando by talking about how many people thought it was a racing incident and then when he talked about Perez he said, it was an over ambitious move and that if Perez runs people off, what would be left of racing. Did he say that while discussing Lando pushing Perez off??? "Perez did it twice" " Perez had contact", yeah cause Perez went into the gravel, if he had stayed on the track, there would've been contact and how does that change anything. If I was talking to you, I might have spoken a bit slowly, but I don't know how to type 'slowly' for you, if you still don't get it.

[@squerrl5851]

@@viksjolt1 The Lando-Checo incident was about P2 and resulted in Checo losing many positions. It is the incident everyone's talking about so naturally it's the one Jolyon's also talking about. He made it plenty clear that Lando running Perez off was bad racing and "the penalty was fine", direct quote. He then further highlighted why it was bad racing by showing the Checo-Leclerc battle and the turn 6 incident which was a more obvious example. There were no excuses, just criticism of FIA's inconsistent stewarding.

[@marcmigneault8364]

Totally agree with Mr. Palmer. Thank you!

[@k0zzu21]

This has been only a problem in F1. Hopefully the stewarding from now on will promote hard but FAIR racing. All of these examples (maybe excluding Hamilton on Verstappen) would have been a clear cut penalty in GT racing, where the best racing is currently at.

[@Meloen83]

If verstappen hadnt lifted against hamilton there would probably be contact and it could have been a penalty. It was the only example where the driver on the outside was sensible enough to back off.

[@drawwithdan5821]

As usual for Palmer, great bit of detailed analysis.

[@shrirajprabhugaonkar180]

FIA to Palmer "save us or else you are fired"

[@yunan9610]

A very insightful 10 minutes

[@Housestationlive]

if it was monaco perez were in the wall, so gravels are an important factor to consider a penalty fair i guess.

[@aguirreignacio]

Finally a truly unbiased analysis!

[@vatsalsingh1179]

Perez was like : I am a BULL and RED makes me angry

[@Timberwolf69]

I'm still wondering what possibilities did Lando have to avoid this situation? Steering was on full locj through the entire corner, so there's nothing he could have done. Would lifting the throttle have had enough influence on his trajectory to change anything? I somewhat doubt that, honestly.

[@planetarian451]

Lifting the throttle a little bit would help a lot. You see him brakes late and checo was already ahead but he keeps on throttle that's why he goes off wide then checo goes off on the kitty lair because of lack of space.

[@darrenhayes467]

Agree. Lando had the advantage being on the inside. He didn’t deliberately push him off and Perez ended up worse because he risked continuing the corner instead of backing out when he clearly wasn’t ahead of Lando through the corner. Other examples shown in the video indicate that others drivers could recognise they would not overtake the driver. Eg. Verstappen and Hamilton in Portugal

[@planetarian451]

@@darrenhayes467 if he backs out at that point norris right rear tyre would hit his front right. Admit it mate they're favouring norris here. If norris was the one who got pushed off the gravel im sure f1 would show the data on the throttle of both cars

[@darrenhayes467]

@@planetarian451 Favouring Norris when he gets a time penalty for an incident that hasn’t been enforced for years as Palmer said. Albon incident last year, he was ahead. Difference here is Perez is behind Norris going through the corner. If Perez is ahead of Norris, Lando would have had to back out or the Albon incident would have happened again. Why shouldn’t Perez do the same.

[@Zubayer_Islam_Rezoan]

Perez's second penalty seems fair, but the 1st one was a racing incident. Same goes with Lando's penalty.

[@ellazychavito9222]

Nah the first one he bumps leclerc twice that’s not a racing incident

[@bigromelu8727]

At the first one he touched Leclerc that was not fair

[@pondaction9506]

@@bigromelu8727 understeered off the curb nothing he could do no penalty

[@sentientspaghetti1898]

other way around , the 1 st penalty was fair the second one was on Charles , that moves was never going to work . even Alonso tried it on George but backed off because he didn't want to get yeeted off

[@juang.kontigo9558]

@@sentientspaghetti1898 Then that means that in the Norris Perez situation. It was Perez's fault because well, its impossible for him to pass. But wait, remember when Palmer said that Norris was on full lock? Maybe Perez didnt know that Norris was understeering. Maybe im just wrong :/

[@jasonsmini]

I think you should be required to leave a car's width if at least half the other car is alongside you

[@hybridtrak]

Lando could have held delayed opening his steering to take him more to the right to still allow some space on the outside

[@md.shahriyarhossain9150]

No excuse after George and Alonso fight. Brilliance and experience delivering outstanding racing.

[@shobhitmittal4273]

Lando push Redbull on the gravel in Austria Meanwhile Hamilton on Radio: For all the kids out there who dream the impossible. You can do it too man! I believe in you guys!

[@bkbaughn]

Perfect explanation to this situation. I agree completely. If they want more wheel to wheel racing they had better get used to this type of incident and back off the rules to allow it.

[@SuperDesignermatt]

Checo should have backed out, of the Move on Lando, it was never going to stick. Sometimes I feel like drivers do this in order to get the driver a penalty.

[@Boerkreeelis]

Yeah because it got Perez so much right...?

[@tadtakuma]

That makes no sense. Nobody has received a penalty for this in YEARS prior to this race.

[@Release-Topic-b4d]

@@Boerkreeelis Bro is this english ?

[@djhokage1]

Wat. "Yeah, i'm going to show this dude with his slower car to not start on the podium next time by launching my own car into gravel and absolutely demolish my chances of a P2". Yes, that is probably the mindset. Makes total sense if you look at it really. Obvious /s

[@Boerkreeelis]

@@Release-Topic-b4d Hehe, it's perhaps not the Queen's English but it served the purpose I thought ;)

[@steviecreasy2837]

Great explanation, I think it very much falls in the grey area of the rules as these often do. I would say the only difference I could see while watching was that perez seemed to get oversteer both times Leclerc was going round which forced him out wide not to spin but either way it's a tough call to make