Were The Loyalist Primarchs Friends? | Warhammer 40k Lore

[@ynpavo]

spongebob meme in the beginning is back, my boi got that job he was applying for

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Got an internship with one of the biggest newspapers in the country!

[@CptVargas70]

​@@livefromtheblacklibrary That's amazing! Congrats 🎉🎉🎉

[@cadettrev762]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary🎉🎉🎉

[@anthongonzalez6021]

A blessing from the manperor, congrats!

[@Nibelheim1989]

😭👏👏

[@Book_worm.75]

Fun fact: wolves and ravens are considered friends. Each is willing to help the other, especially when it comes to hunting food and protecting each other.

[@codysing1223]

Corax saving Russ was a highlight of the Heresy for me. Russ was weeping and broken and Corax broke upon seeing the Wolf so shattered.

[@codysing1223]

@maltheri9833 alot of good stuff, so much it's hard to talk about it all. With so many Heresy books there's plenty to learn all the time

[@josephboustany4852]

​@@codysing1223can you tell me which book that was ?

[@codysing1223]

@@josephboustany4852 I read it in the Corax anthology, the story is "Weregeld" The last stand of the Space wolves, surrounded by Alpha legion, Sons of Horus and Thousand sons... Corax comes in and saves Russ and his legion from Abaddon.

[@josephboustany4852]

@@codysing1223 thank you!

[@kederel7756]

Rogal Dorn being the "you are what you eat" logic with his brothers. A fuc*ing brick wall.

[@leonardogomez8812]

Rogal Dorn shits bricks

[@zeppelincraft1443]

Dorn: You cannot fornicate solid brick walls brother. Unless you really want to.

[@Canadian_Zac]

Dorn: incorrect. I have not eaten any brick walls

[@Henrex2000]

​@@Canadian_Zacincorrect: a brick wall can't reproduce

[@Sole-Witness]

It's weird that Lion El' Johnson considered Khan a close friend and one of the closest of his brothers when Khan doesn't mention his relationship with the Lion at all in his novels.

[@raymond-reviews]

Kinda reminds me of Ron Swanson saying his favorite work buddy was a guy who’s name he forgot a long time ago & barely even talked to

[@RealRogalDorn]

Ngl as a man your best friend is the guy you haven’t talked to since kindergarten. Miss that guy, wherever he is now.

[@georgereevesjr8289]

It could be a one sided relationship thing. Johnson thinks the Khan is his best friend bit the Khan barely knows the Lion even exists. Pre return Johnson comes off as socially backwards and autistic after all.

[@jacksonbedgood2877]

I’m glad someone brought this up because I’ve only ever heard it once and it was weird enough to stick in my head I just can’t remember where I heard it. It is odd considering how opposite they are but maybe that’s why it worked? Or it could be the authors trying to set the groundwork for future stories/when the Khan does come back.

[@thisistherevolt]

​@@jacksonbedgood2877 It was in the new Dark Angels Codex I think. And it does seem like a Chekov's Gun.

[@Ceiling_Gato]

In my headcanon, Guilliman ordered Cawl to create Phobos pattern of MK X armor because he remembered those three lost simulated battles against Corax.

[@ianharrison5758]

⁠@maltheri9833Fr tho I wish we got more Ravenguard lore, Corax is one of the most proficient tacticians, one of the best combatants and actually based as fuck. The raven guard could be doing a hell of a lot more than they are even with Corvus on hiatus

[@alexstan414]

Not THIS I like!

[@codysing1223]

@@Ceiling_Gato Remember when Corvus rammed a flying city into another one to hide his assault? Or maybe when he fought lightning fighters, flying at mach 3. Denying the traitors the 40k Defilers in the Heresy, or when a child saw him scaling a building during a stealth mission, and used his Shadow-walk to vanish from the child's sight. Killing Space-marines at the drop-site by flying invisibly and cutting them with his wings. Or when he demanded to talk to the Emperor upon Terra, Rogal and The Regent denied him... But The Emperor possessed Malcador to speak to his son personally. His "Girlfriend" Nasturi has to be my favorite... She outranks everyone but Corax (even his captains) and they share a special frequency that they can only use, when Corax needs advice or wants to talk about his feelings... He loved her, from the moment he saw her. "You are the first human I ever saw... am I a good man Nasturi?"

[@ohnoastein4441]

I find it really funny that whenever horus talks about ferrus because he says stuff like "he was the only one who understood the dance of war as well as I do" but the one time we see ferrus he just runs straight into a traitor stronghold and dies

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Hearing any Primarch praise Ferrus as this like absolute genius commander always feels like people on Facebook talking about someone who recently died that they went to school with 6 years ago

[@user-kq5ci7ol8o]

I'll say that to be fair, the fact that Ferrus was able to get so far into Istavan without help, after being ambushed, does speak well of his legions' strength, power, and tenacity, specially since if Fulgrim wasn't buffed by his magic sword, it seems like Ferrus would have just won that duel, and then walked away and retreat the ambush with one traitor primarch as his trophy, though granted, that's less strategy, and more so "Me and my legion are so nigh unstoppable, that walking straight forwards towards our enemy without regard for how theyll react, IS a valid strategy for US, anyway BUM RUSH THAT FOOL, GET HIM GET HIM GET HIM"

[@armaanallidina7916]

I'd say that ferrus being called a military genius was his usual self, but like dorn during the iron cage, his temper got the better of him

[@sovietunion7643]

honestly ferrus kinda had the opposite problem of corvis corax. while corvis would win battles and skirmishes but struggle at the longer campaign, ferrus was too focused on the bigger picture to really understand realistic ground combat and duelling very well, and it was out of his area of expertise. as such he overestimated his ability to defeat fulgrim. mix that in with the emotion from having one of his better friends betray him and you can see why he failed so grossly.

[@g.sergiusfidenas6650]

They went all "tell don't show" regarding him, Guilliman and Horus revere the guy but the writers made him a total meathead, unlikable and dumb, sadly having such an underwhelming primarch has made the Iron Hands almost a joke too, great potential all wasted.

[@wumb0kurkkusalaatti609]

Also Corvus was a liberator of the opressed and weak and Vulcan was their protector, hence they had likely similar ethical views to further boost the good terms they were on.

[@robertheinz825]

This is what makes them my two favorite primarchs and the next duo of them I hope to see return.

[@pinetree7296]

*Guilliman:* ''I told you. What did I tell you? Didn't I tell you? Cause I told you. Mmm-hmm. And when did I tell you? A long time ago. And what did I say would happen when I told you? Exactly what just happened.''

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

GOD WHY DIDNT I MAKE THAT THE MEME XD

[@spacedude5208]

He warned them they just had to learn the hard way

[@jaegerbomb269]

I want Corvus Corax back. I can dream.

[@JustaRandomGuy-el7sg]

We can all dream

[@lillithyukiutacrow2532]

​@DogseatDogs the only problem I can see is... HOW IN THE FLYING FU** DO YOU REPRESENT WHAT HE IS NOW PROPERLY????????

[@pitchforksdragon1252]

Logar doesn't want that smoke

[@codysing1223]

@@jaegerbomb269 he isn't a daemon, it's his Shadow-walk... He appears as a flock of Ravens, but is actually just attacking with Lightning claws, it's an Illusion, that's kind of his thing. 👍

[@Vincent_A.]

Quoth the Raven, “Lorgar!!!”

[@Narrmo]

About Guilliman and Corax, I would in fact go as far as calling them friends. From their interactions in Corax: Lord of shadows, it seems like they genuinely liked spending time together, and upon leaving Ulramar, Corax regretted he could not stay longer.

[@g.sergiusfidenas6650]

It's funny they both were kinda talking shit about Fulgrim, nothing very harsh but they both agreed the guy was peacock.

[@worldman3218]

I mean, it makes sense. Crovus despises tyrants and oppresive governments, and G-man is almost the complete opposite of that. Sure, g-man holds total dominion over his planets, but he's the type of leader that would place the right people in the right jobs and is beloved by his people.

[@ShadrackMeduson]

and also one of the reasons why he accepted the codex astartes was because corax had something similar called the axioms of corax, a set of rules and guidelines of how the raven guard should approach guerrilla warfare and many of those rules were included in the codex.

[@ceejno7861]

Corax even thinks to himself that he likes this particular brother - which, after seeing his interactions with several of the others, is a thought I don't think he's had very often. XD And Guilliman at one point notes that while smiling doesn't seem to come easily to Corax, he laughs sincerely enough. Which makes me wonder what he said or did to make Corax of all people laugh.

[@georgereevesjr8289]

Ive always read the Emperor using Guillaman for the burning of Monarchia as him giving a warning to Guilliman as well as punishing Lorgar. "This is what will happen to you too if you get too wrapped up in Empire building and forget why I made you"

[@declanlee6894]

Emps might have been the worst communicator of all of them. Like mans could’ve seriously benefitted from just sending clear messages that made sense instead of doing the most extreme thing and explaining his action to nobody

[@georgereevesjr8289]

@declanlee6894 Big E is one of those guys who thinks what he sees is obvious to everyone, but forgets that nobody can actually read his thoughts

[@GCheckCentral]

​@@declanlee6894 if big e just showed lorgar the destructive nature of chaos he would've been fine. It's like just saying drugs are bad instead of showing its consequences.

[@sovietunion7643]

@@declanlee6894 i think one of big E's biggest follies is that he thinks himself above human failures. yes he is powerful, yes he is wise of tens of thousands of years, but at the end of the day he is still a human with all the tendencies and problems that entails. thats why i personally prefer sigmar from fantasy as a god because there is no question in his mind about his humanity. he accepts that he is a god but he just feels more down to earth and understanding of his own human nature, for lack of a better term sigmar has humility. old legends go that Marcus Aurelius had a servant with him at all times that would whisper "you are but a man" at intervals in his ear to remind him that despite any amount of power he had, or wisdom he could learn, or nations he could conquer, he was still a man, with all failures and folly of human nature should he become lax. honestly i feel like had the emperor had someone like this it would have gone a lot better for him because he would not think himself above the mistakes of those he viewed as unwise.

[@chigozirimudeagwu6749]

​@@sovietunion7643He had malcador, but he didn't do it enough times.

[@tomrude5865]

Rough quote from Scars, "Guilliman famously thought little of Alpharius. (Bjorn) Knew Russ, less famously, felt much the same."

[@trajanfidelis]

Good you underestimate the Alpha Legion at your peril

[@gamechanger8908]

Russ and his Legion proceed to get ganked by the Alpha Legion in Alaxxes Nebula

[@randomcenturion7264]

On the matter of Russ vs Angron, Lorgar actually spelled it out perfectly. "No Angron, you spiteful fool, you did not "win."

[@silent_stalker3687]

Meanwhile… Russ’s legion was losing everywhere so Russ could try and teach Angron a lesson. If that continued worse case is they both die. Russ lost the war to try a single battle to try and teach a lesson to Angron. Russ started the war, Angron legit just was like ‘fuck i just have to meet quota.’

[@leandrocastello309]

​@@silent_stalker3687for real. Russ lost a lot of sons trying and failing to acomplish a single objetive, teach a single lesson. While Angron just wanted to kick Russ' ass.

[@silent_stalker3687]

@@leandrocastello309 and not even that, but remember the lesson he was trying to do was… because he decided to attack the lion. Now instead of Angron attacking him he attacks Angron to teach a lesson he learned from attacking the lion… “Boi, have you not learned!” -the Lion, hearing Russ explain this to him.

[@krel3358]

@@silent_stalker3687 Angron has that terminal case of traitor primarch syndrome where his life experiences before being found by the Emperor completely tainted his viewpoint on what his ultimate goals were and what he valued. In Angrons case he literally just treated everything like he was still a Gladiator on Nuceria and not part of a bigger conflict, a general, or having responsibilities, coupled with the nails warping his brain he literally could not comprehend what Russ was trying to teach him. Its ironic that the only primarch who kinda came close to him was Lorgar simply because Lorgar knew about Khorne which gave him insights on how to either communicate with him or help him along his path to damnation. To Angron essentially every war is just an arena fight where he needs to kill as many people as possible. Its why he decimates his legion when they cant win a planet in 31 hours. Basically Angron is so "fucked in the head" by the nails that he cannot abstract thoughts or ideas outside of Nuceria so everything has to be translated through those terms to him.

[@silent_stalker3687]

@@krel3358 not quite, he didn’t treat everything like he was a gladiator as we can see in a few ways, he only treated a few that way- one of which was Lorgar. But of all the traitor Primarchs Angron is the one to know the eternity wall was doomed and offer the defenders and citizens the opportunity to surrender.

[@NoName-lo9ym]

Fulgrim desperately needed to be perfect, Ferrus Manus desperately needed to be the best and strongest. Interesting little co-dependent relationship they had.

[@denorge]

I really appreciate the moment after the Horussy and Leman Russ was lamenting on the Lion’s “death”. The lion actually did Leman a solid and never told anyone what happened to the VI’s 13th company and the Wulfen. The Lion even had the footage erased from the record. That’s a hell of a bro move if I’ve seen one.

[@KaziMazi]

I really hope Vulkan is the next primarch to return cuz the current 2 primarch could really use some mental support and hugs

[@DepressedSlavicPepe]

they the biggest hugs they can get, even a Vulken death hug would make them both feel better

[@tuckhoichan6638]

Well, Vulcan is a nice big boi, so I'm pretty sure all his brother will be so happy to see him.

[@dagdamor1]

All of these interpersonal relationships make me even more curious about how the Lost Primarchs fit into the dynamic, because you don't just have a lasting impact on Horus, Alpharius, Jaghatai, Dorn, Roboute, Sanguinius, Russ, and Fulgrim without being immensely integral to the overarching family in some way. All of the aforementioned brothers are so varied in their approach, philosophy, and values, that it seems at least one of the missing two served as spiritual glue to appeal to such a broad array of them. I'd even bet that some of the serious gaps and shortcomings in some Primarchs' personalities are the result of the Emperor and Malcador psychically CARVING the vital memories of past close friendships out of them. Imagine the thoughts of a beloved sibling being cauterized out of your soul. That would cause genuine damage, make no mistake.

[@blam320]

This is exactly what happened; their very memories of the Lost Primarchs were erased, and worse yet it was the Primarchs’ own idea to do it.

[@DepressedSlavicPepe]

​@@blam320wait wait wait they wanted to forget their own brothers. that is f#cking cold. even for Dorn and evil Dorn

[@blam320]

@@DepressedSlavicPepe Malcador and Dorn had this conversation; Malcador even briefly restored those memories, and Dorn was so overcome with horror at just what the lost Primarchs had done that he asked Malcador to re-wipe his memory. So it’s not without cause; whatever the Lost did was so unspeakable that only Malcador, Valdor, and the Emperor likely remember.

[@DepressedSlavicPepe]

@@blam320 it is still cold to even forget the (hopefully) good times they had with them

[@olenickel6013]

@@blam320 do we trust Malcador not to have played some trick on Dorn here?

[@Psyker_Unredactus]

I dunno if they all universally loved each other. But everyone can agree that Sanguinius was the most beloved by his brothers out of all of them.

[@maxnovakovics2568]

"Don't you talk shit about my fabulous fucking hawk boy. He died for me so be grateful..."

[@JZ0UK]

16:25 Underselling how much love got shown between Rogal, Vulkan and Sanguinius during the siege a bit I think... Was all very moving 😊

[@BENR8108]

You missed the relationship of The Lion and Horus. While Horus loved Sanguinious, and would have been fine with him being war master instead; it was not the same with the Lion. Simply because the Lion was “better” than the Horus in nearly every way; a more capable commander, delayed start but quickly catching ground; a better personal combatant and was trusted with weapons of Old Night and missions from the emperor not privy to Horus. Where he was better; and it’s a big one; is that Horus was able to convince his brothers to follow his lead (in most cases) where the Lion could not (he didn’t share intel well). He also looked at the Lion as his greatest rival for the war master title. And when he won it; he was most concerned with the Lions response; and when the lion gave a “meh” public response that bothered Horus immensely. Horus wanted The Lion to embarrass himself and/or concede Horus’s superiority. It’s also why before he rebelled; he sent the Lion as far away as possible and had Curze keep him occupied; effectively out of the fight from Terra.

[@aarovit4257]

Just read Corvus’s primer book with the war game simulation and calling them truly good friends is indeed a stretch but as the book points out they are truly brothers. Not just like in the literal sense but Older brother and younger brother. Corvus I believe even calls himself that he acts like Guilliman’s younger brother never achieving what his older brother could but finding his own niche to work in an excel where his older brother can’t. Corvus is quickly becoming my number 2 of favorite loyalist Primarchs

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Yeah that’s a good way to say it, not really friends but definitely family and yeah Corax I’d actually REALLY interesting it’s a shame he’s so overlooked

[@Sinnerage]

Corvus and guilliman are my 2 favorites so this makes me happy to hear.

[@shinryu129]

​@@livefromtheblacklibraryI just remember that Guilliman actually has a table built with 20 chairs and his wish was to sit with all his brothers including the traitors and have a meal and talk with them again.

[@houseadams4841]

You’re leaving out the entire point behind Russ’s fight with Angron…. He roped Angron in using his own anger as a weapon against him…. Angron thought he had Russ… when Russ told him… in a nutshell… “Sure… your anger and blind rage won you the fight / battle… but it has lost you the war…” Angry Ron looks up to see that he completely surrounded and the Wolves have him dead to rights… all Leman had to do was say the word and Angron would have been lit up… and then easily finished by Russ… Lorgar explains all of this to Angron…. Who is completely blind to it… although I believe he definitely could see the lesson Russ was teaching him… he would just never admit it.

[@MacroLore]

Corvus corax is the best primarch left. The only primarch who didn’t have beef with anyone who didn’t deserve it (Konrad deserves it)

[@djashovel]

It nice seeing you here 😊 I hope you Checked out the warhammer 40k vs star wars series

[@MacroLore]

@@djashovel It went hard, I didn't agree with the Psyker Force comparison, but aside from that the scale was really good

[@2guys1cliplol]

Konrad got off easy tbh

[@clan741]

@@2guys1cliplolkinda fitting that of all deaths his was the most sad, pathetic, and with no pizazz. No traitor primarch cared and no loyalists even thought to celebrate his death.

[@Dogue83]

@clan741 but his death was also a statement about everything he believed in.

[@wadegeorge1591]

No Leman did not get "dog walked" Leman succeded in showing Angron a lesson. Leman tricked Angron into being totally enveloped.

[@houseadams4841]

Yes, exactly….. Lorgar even explains this to Angron… Lorgar also sees exactly what Russ did and why he did it when Angron tells him the story… It’s extremely obvious to Lorgar

[@robertheinz825]

For Vulkan, I’d say he also didn’t get along with Mortarion. The 14th’s use of chemical weapons was seen as way too overboard and permanently damaging to newly found worlds for the big guy. To a point where Vulkan would deliberately move 18th legion assets away from 14th legion war zones. As for Corvus Corax, the pro arch he hated the absolute most was Lorgar. I know this hatred didn’t really take root until the drop site massacre, but to be hunting a guy for a good 10,000 years after that takes a special kind of hatred. I also think he wouldn’t have gotten along with Fulgrim, they are just so diametrically opposed I can’t see them even standing each other. Just subscribed by the way, keep up the great work.

[@joekane1844]

I feel like Russ is an under appreciated character, he seems like the most emotionally intelligent primarch besides Sanguinius

[@YungFozz]

I agree but this guy is too drunk on the haterade to see straight

[@andresperedo1275]

He is the only one who tries to help Angron. Probably not in the way Angron needed because he did not know him enough. But at least he tried.

[@jannovy7229]

He is a fuckin furry. He also made at least 2 Legions turn traitor, did jack shit during the Heresy and chose not to kill Horus because he suddenly found some empathy, then proceeded to get bitc* slapped and sat the rest of the 13 thousand years as a dog water.

[@bmad1386]

Yeah the guy genuinely tried to be a brother to most of the primarchs, he was surprisingly more understanding than the others (excluding the Magnus situation)

[@thatfrog05]

15:57 Horussy???

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

I have no idea why the audio clipped like that oh my GOD 😭

[@HerbertWest519]

😂

[@JustaRandomGuy-el7sg]

I want to see Corax return because of his relationship with Gorillaman and Lion el Johnson

[@PLpatriot999]

We all love vulkan

[@DepressedSlavicPepe]

VULKEN LIVES *STOMP STORM* VULKEN LIVES *STOMP STOMP*

[@p2a7t31]

VULKEN LIVES STOMP STOMP

[@Rapture-nv5vj]

VULKAN LIVES *STOMP STOMP*

[@Cmdtheartist]

I think that the story about Guilliman getting the easy childhood is a bit misleading. I think that several of the Primarchs would have thrived on Macragge, but several would have crashed and burned there. The Lion was too paranoid, Conrad would have been Conrad, Jagatai would have turned it all down to be free, and Lorgar would still have ended up a lawyer/preacher/politician. Funny enough, Angron would have been fine, possibly doing better than Guilliman in some ways. Something to think about.

[@hugisdb]

If anything, Magnus is actually the one who got it easiest. If he lands in almost any planet, off the cliff he goes

[@MrPsych77]

I think Conrad would have been significantly better adjusted with a father figure and well not exiting his pod in lava

[@joshuavazquez5240]

Literally most of the traitor primarchs would have a better chance of remaining loyalist if they landed on Macragge.

[@dollarsignmexican]

Lorgar the lawyer. Kek

[@Cmdtheartist]

@MrPsych77 Conrad (gives his adoptive father a hug, sees him killed by "Uncle Whatshisname"): AAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH! (snaps)

[@pineapple4112]

Didn't say how Vulcan and russ were friendly with trading weapons and just enjoying their people

[@jasonbeatty831]

Valdor and Russ seemed to get along pretty well, and it was noted that he was genuinely sad of Sanguinius’ death. Maybe he was uncertain of the Primarch after their expulsion from Terra, but you make it seem like he had no respect them when he clearly did.

[@SmileyBoi21]

Sanguinius is just the bro everyone vibes with it. He can be the soul of a friend group heck he might be the big brother the one we flock to for advice and a source of admiration.

[@2guys1cliplol]

Its odd that guliman admired ferus but ferus never felt the same. Like bro thats youre brother. Get to know him and maybe you would have before getting your head chopped off 😂

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

YEAH LOL, like whenever I read about Ferrus I’m just wondering what his problem was

[@d.staten1958]

​​@@livefromtheblacklibrary Someone pointed out on reddit that Ferrus Manus could have been suffering from something like mercury poisoning or metal toxicity when he got his metallic arms.

[@2guys1cliplol]

@d.staten1958 necrodermis poisoning would be a Interesting theory

[@everythingsalright1121]

Given Ferrus had a big obsession with being the best, I have a feeling he didn't like Dorn because of his upbringing and much like Angron probably saw it as "you didnt have to work hard to climb to the top you were born into it", as well as Guilliman not really pushing himself, but Guilliman as in this video, it's stated he got off easy most times

[@cia8613]

Moral of the story is that Sanguinius is perfect and he is simply the best

[@Arizto7828]

Btw all this talk about how much primarchs loved and respected ferrus is going to set a veru high bar if he returns and odds are he is not gonna live up to the expectations of the fandom

[@013wolfwarrior]

Ferrus shouldnt come back, It sucks, but hes dead

[@dollarsignmexican]

​@@013wolfwarrior if they do anything, then probably a Great Crusade series

[@jonharrison9222]

What does?

[@Bleakertube]

Guilliman, the Lion, and Corax are my favorites for different reasons. Also I think many of the primarchs are on the spectrum. The Lion is just the most obvious because he was raised on Caliban.

[@013wolfwarrior]

He was raised by the wilderness and couldnt fully intengrate into normal human society

[@wailmerpail]

Lorgar thought the look Guilliman gave him on Monarchia was hate but he only knew Guillliman true hateful face after Calth

[@dreadcthulhu1439]

Resting Primarch Face

[@andresperedo1275]

About the fight between Russ and Angron: Of course Angron won, no denial. But Leman was fighting looking at the big picture, he knew that if they would be fighting to the end, the dead one would be Angron (as they were completely surrounded by Space Wolves when the duel ended). We don't know what would happen if they would be fighting isolated from everything else. Maybe Angron would have won nevertheless, but Russ would have fought differently. Besides, yes, there is a lot we don't know and a lot we have to make up in our minds (Like Russ and Corax getting along. Maybe that was the case, but we don't really know anything about their relationship).

[@sonicsucks20]

Russ lost fairly and failed to realize Angron would feel better about dying and taking out russ also because he suffered the nails pain and wanted to find an outlet where he could finally end himself thusn Russ giving him what he wanted, Peace.

[@sonicsucks20]

Russ lost fair and square because Angron wanted an out and to die taking out russ was a bonus.

[@houseadams4841]

It was clear to Lorgar that Russ was teaching Angron a lesson… and initially let Angron use his rage and anger to “win”… Then show him he was actually fucked bc of it… Also…. Corax speaks some Fenrisian… It seemed to me that CC and Russ clearly got along well enough and were most likely friends… Just what I picked up from it… But as we know… they will / can retcon anything…

[@andresperedo1275]

@@houseadams4841 where is it shown that Corax speaks fenrisian (I am kind of avoiding the corax novels cos I really don't like how Thorpe writes :P )

[@alastor8091]

12:30 IT WAS A DRAW. BOTH SIDES EVEN GAVE THE WIN TO THE OTHER BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

[@Vincent_A.]

15:57 The Four were all up in his Horussy

[@WilliamDeemer]

Didn’t Sanguinius have a good relationship with J Khan ?? I believe he was the only person that could make the Khan laugh.

[@sanguinius_yt]

Khan and Dorn didn’t get along in terms of tactics but Dorn and The Khan where a fantastic duo. And both became very close over the course of the siege imo.

[@barbehenn8786]

I have a headcanon that Vulkan traveled to Maccragge at some point and got along well Tarasha, hence why he came to her defense against Curze

[@shinryu129]

She probably heard he was Guilliman's brother baked him some cookies and called him nephew and continued to dote on him all the while.

[@hugisdb]

Interesting that there’s zero talk about the relationship between Sanguinius and Guilliman. Their interactions, especially the solo ones, during Imperium Secundus, and especially during the Siege of Terra showed how much Sanguinius thought of Guilliman. At the end of Saturnine, he mentioned Guilliman first, saying he’s coming; during the epic speech at the Eternity Gate, he talks about how the 13th will bring liberation or vengeance, and Guilliman message at the end of the book was directed at Sanguinius, even knowing Dorn would be in charge.

[@Fyrijou]

Isn’t the relationship between the Raven Guard and White Scars more akin as rivals trying to up each other than full on dislike?

[@gzusfishlives8897]

You say he got "dogwalked" but Leman Russ literately lead Angron into a trap and won the battle

[@Jack-0-lantern]

Lion el'jonson was not part of Guilliman's Dauntless Few.

[@slymarbo1183]

Love you content! Thanks for making it!

[@kgb85MD]

Dog walked yes sure sure

[@2Based23]

No because friendship is magic and magic is HERESY !!!

[@federicocartasegna4654]

Holy fuck Ferrus Manus is so insufferable that I'm incline to believe it was actually his true ability

[@arcredemption7603]

I really like learning about the interactions between all the primarchs. My favorite are when they get surprisingly touching.

[@degamasters]

when i was at Ferrus Manus part i got distracted for a second and thought "Dorn part is gonna be very brief" and then i just looked at the markers. Loved the video

[@gamechanger8908]

Horus did not like Corvus. But he contemplated why he got Alpharius over the Raven boi. Since the Hydra always gets tangled in their web of lies. Still he shot himself in the foot. Since it was him who guaranteed the loyalty of the Ravenlord.

[@NoahNaugler]

Jaghatai also had a fairly good relationship with the angel and his legion , in addition from the book scars , the white scars offered safety for survivor marines from the iorn hands , salamanders and raven guard and when the salamander died in there company it affected the marines that they interacted with (to my knowledge)

[@jaanikaapa6925]

When Angron and Rus fought Rus allowed Angron to win the fisticuffs. That was his point. Angron's legion would have died if Rus had been all in. Khan went to see what happened. He waited to see what's going on.

[@justsomeguywhowantsamust-iw1yj]

The Wolf of Fenris also lured the Red Angel into a kill zone whilst MANY onlookers noted that Leman seemingly wasn’t fighting at full capacity. Even after the fight Leman lists Angron as one of the other primarchs he could handedly kill. Just sayin.

[@DINOROAR2912]

As others have pointed out, you misread Angron V Russ, the Night of the Wolf was actually a choice made by Russ because he loved Angron, not because he was ordered to

[@THOTHGames]

I can only imagine that if they learnt more about the Khan, the Loyalists and even Traitors, would come to trust, respect and maybe even fear The Khan. I only hope when he returns they can keep his mystique to the other Primarchs but the Khan energy to the Chapter

[@JZ0UK]

I dunno how real the emperor's much touted distrust of Guilliman was... Given the last time it came up was during the siege of Terra the emperor just said he was building an empire and didn't seem to be overly concerned... Given the circumstances you'd think that'd be more of a big deal.

[@hugisdb]

Exactly this. I just think it’s leftover hate from the Matt Ward era. People are too blinded and like to pick and choose their lore from what they want. The Emperor knew, and the fact that the three primarchs at Terra all fought with one thought it mind…we hold out for Guilliman, and the second he arrives, it’s over.

[@ph1shstyx]

@@hugisdb Even Horus knew that once Rowboat Gorillaman arrived, the siege was over, and If I remember correctly, when Big E boarded the ship, the Ultramarines were only a couple hours away from Terra.

[@RageAgainstTheDyingOfTheLight7]

​​@@ph1shstyxhe was but the astronomicon wasnt lit until too late the Emperor was already on the Vengeful Spirit

[@patrickdees5256]

Vulkan gives the biggest hugs. But with corvus, the biggest smiles

[@Darkangelnum1]

I still think that leman russ could beat angron if he wasn't holding back

[@sirdanthechipwright821]

Long after the night of wolf, Leman states quite bluntly that he still believes he can kill him because he's "too angry". Which, to me, only further cements the probability that Russ willingly took an L to teach a lesson

[@andresperedo1275]

@@sirdanthechipwright821 Not exactly. That is what Leman says out loud, in a chapter were the reader is constantly reminded that what Leman says is a pose and not necessarily what he thinks. It may be a part of truth in how he describes his chances fighting other brothers, but probably he would not believe most of what he was saying (I doubt he thought that he could beat Jaghatai as easy as snapping his fingers)

[@yomommashouse9594]

Jaghati meeting the soul shard of magnus on prospero after the burning is downright heartbreaking.

[@ssjjshawn]

10:40 Well if Leman is going through an Odin arc, of course he is gonna like Ravens. Thats Odins Bird

[@Arcanyum]

He even has a spear that he throws away but keeps coming back to him

[@The_1_witness]

Slight mistake with the dauntless few. It's Russ but Lion.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Yeah I meant Russ, that was a slip of the tongue

[@brya9681]

We keep being told some primarchs were friends but virtually never see that. The HH books fumbled the bag so hard in convincing me there was ever a chance the HH wouldn't happen. They all hated each other from jump

[@computermaster50]

I find it extra funny that you took the same takeaway from the night of the wolf as Angron did, yes Angron won the fight between himself and Russ, but he was cut off, severed from support and about to be killed for his reckless gladiatorial combat tactics.

[@MarkStorey-dc4tm]

Great video! It did look like some of the Lion's attitudes may have changed after his return.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Yeah he’s mellowed out a lot and done some reflecting

[@everythingsalright1121]

Seeing the sad state of the galaxy probably does that to someone. But hes also having a bit of a midlife crisis as it is stated hes feeling the effects of age

[@sillylung]

I know its gonna be a good day whenever i see a new long form live for the black library upload. It always makes my day better.

[@GlamdringandOrcrist]

I find it odd how this vid leaves out Guilliman and Dorn’s relationship. Out of all the Primarchs, Dorn valued Guilliman’s return to Terra above everyone else and never believed that he wouldn’t arrive to aid. That’s an incredible amount of faith to have in a man. Guilliman on the other consistently speaks highly of Dorn and considered him one of the Dauntless Few.

[@dac314]

You sorta glazed over how much mutual respect the Khan and Sanguinius had for each other. When the Khan rode out before the wall to save innocents, it was Sanguinius who led the party to retrieve his fallen brother. Sanguinius recognized the strands of fate that demanded Jaghatai survive that day, and could not let his brother's valiant actions result in his sacrifice. Theirs was a remarkable kinship.

[@dac314]

Leman Russ stole a 1v2 Corax V Peturabo/Horus battle from us, and, as a long-time Thousand Sons fan, I'll never forgive him for that 😢

[@silent_stalker3687]

12:30 At the Eternity Gate, Angron was the one who offered safe passage to those who would turn away and gave them days to prepare. Rus on Magnus’s legion targeted civilian targets, and never voiced anything other than to someone who was asleep they believed was a spy. When Rus tried to ‘teach’ Angron the lesson the Lion taught him… Rus: gets mad and attacks the Lion, loses and is left knocked out to show how bad it is to go head to head. Rus’s attempt Rus: antagonizing Angron, trying to make him angry. Angron: loses the fight against Rus on a technicality of ‘oh i will die but sons have you surrounded’ as his sons lost every other position in droves and had his sons out numbered and corned but for the ravens. At best both legions would have lost their Primarchs that day, at worse they would fully go to war and be wiped out.

[@jakubchmiel6211]

The positive relationship between Russ and corax could unironically be based on the relation between crows and wolves in the wild, where in a symbiotic relationship ship exists. Where the wolves often stayed near the prey they have devoured to let the crows to scavange the remains, and to scare of other scavengers, while crows would act like a alert system, letting the wolves know that other predators are about, or if there is any dead animal nearby for them to eat

[@CliffCardi]

Are you two friends? Vulcan: “Yes” Lion: “No”

[@LordyT34]

Small correction, Leman Russ was not assigned to bring Angron and the World Eaters in, that was actually part of the problem and why the Space Wolves ended up retreating was because they weren't acting on orders, but was acting outside orders

[@Sugarierspoon99]

I hope ferrus especially but sanguinius aswell come back as angles who temporarily return to speak to members of thier legions or primarch brothers and ferrus has done this before but they could be leading the legion of the damned.

[@kellypulse6285]

Curze was mentioned as loving Sanguinius, but he also loved Fulgrim at first. Fulgrim was the only person that smiled at him when they came to Nostramo and treated him well when teaching him how to be a commander, to the point that Curze trusted him enough to speak of his visions of the future. Of course that soured when Fulgrim told Dorn, and Curze almost killed Dorn and then fled. I've also heard he got along well with Mortarion (probably because Morty would similarly be as brutal as he needed to be to get the job done and they were both dour and pessimistic lol, plus they both disliked warp corruption).

[@Joseph-mw2rl]

Valdor: *Sees Dorn's color scheme* Valdor: At least THIS one has tastes

[@CrimsonTemplar2]

Great video. It was neat spotting the parts where you snipped out some of your recent shorts.

[@jamiearmstrong3487]

I recall in the Ferrus Manus book, he has a flashback to when he got beaten by Dorn, and was still rather miffed about it.

[@VeraTepes]

Yes. They were Best Friends. Best friends of all Best Friends.

[@miguelperez9906]

The khan and sanguinious trusted each other almost implicitly and complemented each other to there faces it was in front of sang that he was extra sassy towards fulgrim

[@ColinScott-m8u]

Russ vs angron was not a matter of 1 v 1. It was a lesson on Angrons unchecked rage and lack of tactics.

[@DarkCatfish]

The more I learn about Jaghatai Khan the more I like him

[@brandonlyon730]

Lion also apparently trusted Perturabo enough to hand him over a bunch of big doomsday weapons at the start of the heresy the Dark Angels were trusted over.

[@Ali-c1s5i]

Something I think people don't bring up enough is the relationship between Leman and Lorgar. They were actually on pretty good terms. Both saw the universe in a very spiritual way and took their rituals and the beliefs of their homeworlds seriously in contrast to the atheism of their brothers. Russ actually spoke up in support of Lorgar before Monarchia (told to him by Magnus, ironically) and Lorgar being the diplomat was able to diffuse tension between Magnus and Russ that almost led to a battle between their legions during a compliance, because they respected one another and Lorgar was able to calm him down through his latant abilities. On the flip side a demon tells Lorgar that it would have been Russ (and Konrad) who execute him if he didn't stop after Monarchia in another timeline, and I don't think they get many scenes together in the books so someone would have to chime in if there's any more to their relationship. Still an interesting bit of lore from two legions one would think are diametrically opposed.

[@Cryonfrost]

Our glorious shadowseer pots again

[@thomasplanquette424]

If I may : you made a mistake , Vulkan was friend with Horus , even looking up at Lupercal as a leader to follow the example. That's why he created Dawnbringer as a gift for Horus. But when he was going to give it he felt that something has changed in Horus that kept him to give the Warhammer. The date are not clear but it was probably as Horus was already preparing the Heresy

[@fablion6324]

vish constantine valdor got more love, even his "primarch" book isnt about him

[@BeggarsNight]

That was actually the SECOND time that specific group of White Scars and Raven Guard had to work together. Damocles is a sequel work to The Hunt For Voldorius, where the two groups work together the first time. That’s why they’re already on decent speaking terms when they meet in Damocles, even though they didn’t part on 100% perfect terms.

[@RedAngel813]

One thing that was metion in "Ferrus Manus: Gorgon of Medusa" is that at the beginning he was interested in being the Warmaster but by the end he tells Fulgrim that he no longer wants it but says something along the lines of "whoever gets it will have my support." So he may feel responsible for that. Also, in the same book, I remember Guilliman didn't like Ferrus due to something about an order that got his sons killed though i dont remember what it was that or the fact he showed up guns ready thinking he was going to save the day when the battle was concluded 😂

[@peterthompson5785]

Pretty sure the lion wasn't one of guillimans dauntless

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Oh shoot did I accidentally say lion? It was Russ, Dorn, Sanguinius, and Ferrus

[@peterthompson5785]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary to be fair I would include the lion in my dauntless few

[@forestjohnson7474]

24:05 I think it was the reason he went to confront Horus himself.

[@EmperorsVenetians]

Something that doesn't get brought up that much, despite being literally everyones favourite pick, Sanguinius wasn't put in command of the defence of Terra, like we can rationalise 'oh dorn was the builder/seige expert' but much of the war for Terra wasnt a seige, it was a fight for a whole solar system. And yet the 2nd choice for Warmaster wasnt asked to take command. Why? Dorn was bullheaded but he accepted Horus as Warmaster & would've accepted serving under Sanguinius both during the crusade and the seige of terra.

[@John333Scout]

Youd think if Guilliman and Dorn interacted more with them both being very disciplined in structure and organization and you know well administrators and stern but fair. Having like the utmost honor and duty above all type of attitude, that they would be instantly best friends like step brothers but way less dramatic. Like they would talk see each other as competent and work near each other and then recall how the other was the best friend they ever had because they both will just work and run shit properly and by the book etc.

[@MandoSki464]

Really would love to see the wolves and white scars develop a stronger kindred bond between chapters because I love both and could see them complementing each other quite well and heck for giggles and awesomeness add in the raven guard for some badass trifecta warfare abilities

[@watchonjar]

Rus didnt loose he lured angron into a killing field and let him go because he didnt want to kill him

[@bmad1386]

Pretty ironic how Ferrus and Sanguinius, two of the strongest based on fellow primarch descriptions alone, are the ones that are actually dead-dead😢