Were the Spartans allies of the Jewish kings?

[@PopGoesTheology]

Great work. Might I add that it was fairly common in the ancient Near East for the ruling elite of one nations to forge a historic connection with a new ally. What come to mind is a text I once read wherein an Egyptian emissary (tasked with strengthening trade relations with Lebanon) announces to his audience that the two nations had been worshipping the same national deity through the ages without realizing it. And it was this god who made it known to him that the deity wished for the Lebanese to trade cedar wood with the Egyptians. Thanks so much for your hard work!

[@ntonisa6636]

Back in late 2018, the international Jewish advocacy group *B'nai B'rith* (or its Greece based "Philon" chapter) with support from the Mayor of Sparta and the Greek-Israeli Cooperation Institute organised an international confererence titled *“Sparta-Israel: Renewing an Ancient Friendship”* with various academics and officials and even the then Greek Army Chief attending. So this type of cultural diplomacy continues to this day, just instead of being mediated by gods and priests, it's now mostly done by academics and lobby groups...

[@qboxer]

I really adore these Q&A sessions. They answer questions that I didn’t even know I had.

[@speederscout]

Thanks, Garrett. One of my favorite teachers (even if it's just online).

[@TetsuShima]

10:53 The Book of Maccabees is a pretty underrated part of the Bible, to be honest, as it tells the story of the Jewish war of independence against the successor states of Alexander the Great's Empire and the formation of the last independent kingdom of Judea. There is in fact a 1962 movie about this conflict called "The Old Testament"

[@TheZinmo]

The Maccabees were the Taliban of their time.

[@Poqanics]

@@TheZinmo I second that

[@grugnotice7746]

@JoeBidenIsTrash 1 Based baby seal clubbers.

[@danielcharba8342]

One and Two are of my favorite books from the Bible. Fortunate enough to be Catholic and grew up knowing about them.

[@parvonik1359]

well, technically, theyre not part of the bible.

[@kuglepen64]

BTW: Did you see the news about the Sponsian coins? A video on this would be interesting I think.

[@QuantumHistorian]

I've noticed a lot of push backs from others saying that it is a fake and the analysis was poorly done. Would love someone who actually knows about coins presenting both sides of the evidence.

[@toldinstonefootnotes]

I've read a few articles about those. I'm far from an expert on aurei, but I have to admit that I'm puzzled by some of the characteristics of the Sponsian coins - in particular, the fact that they were cast, not struck. If they're real, they're absolutely unique. If they're fake, they're very bad forgeries.

[@Agraves35]

Love the channels and content you make, and I have a question I’d like to ask as well. How much did the Romans know about Babylon / Greater Mesopotamia? The cultural Babylonians/Assyrians existed still but I recall reading once that Trajan had entered the city of Babylon itself. I also have read that the Babylonian Akitu festival may have been exposed to Rome as well. Keep up all the amazing work, I always love my daily dose of unique history!

[@QuantumHistorian]

Babylon, as a political and cultural centre, declined steeply over the whole of the Seleukid Empire as the Greek cities they founded took over its economic, religious, and administrative function. The Parthians continued the trend. By the time of Trajan there would be very left of the actual city and knowledge of it would have been very faint and distant indeed. Here is an excerpt from Paul-Alain Beaulieu's _A History of Babylon 2200 BC - 75 AD_ : After the middle of the first century BC cuneiform texts from Babylon are all astronomical, the last one being datable to the year AD 75, although arguments have been advanced that one isolated astronomical text from Uruk might be assigned to the year AD 79-80 but this is a moot point. Knowledge of cuneiform probably ceased around that time. It seems likely that excerpts of Babylonian scholarly and literary texts continued in Greek or Aramaic transcription, but these would have been written on parchment or papyrus and all disappeared. According to the testimony of Classical writers the site of Babylon had become deserted by the second century AD. After that the memory of Babylon was preserved mostly in the Bible and the works of Berossus, Herodotus, and a few others. In the sixth century of our era the Neo‐Platonist philosopher Damascius, in his treatise on the First Principles, quoted accurately from the list of primeval gods appearing in the first tablet of Enuma elish, the Babylonian Epic of Creation, but this constitutes an exception. The world had to wait until modern excavations in Iraq and the decipherment of the cuneiform script to rediscover the lost history of Babylon.

[@samuelmelcher]

The Historian’s Craft has a cool video on that called “Did Ancient Civilizations have Ancient Civilizations?”. I’d love to hear Garrett’s take too, but in the meantime that’s worth a watch.

[@folkemillbourn5714]

Have subscribed to all of your channels and love your content. One of the best on yt!

[@StephenAslett]

Love the channel. My questions are about Roman furniture. What would the typical furnishings be in a middle class or poor Roman insula? Dining table and chairs? Chest of drawers? Were there stores that sold standard sized things like beds? Was everything ordered custom from a carpenter? And how would you get furniture to the top floor of an insula? Just hire some burly guys to carry it up?

[@marshalleubanks2454]

Excellent Q&A.

[@QuantumHistorian]

For the measurements it would be nice to have them in metric too... But on that question: how standardised were there? Was there an attempt to make the same units be used everywhere in the Empire? Was there the concept of a standard?

[@toldinstonefootnotes]

That's a good question. Locally, at least, units were standardized (we find modius containers approved by civic officials, for example), and Diocletian's Price Edict assumes basic Empire-wide standardization, but I'm not aware of any concerted government initiative to that effect. In matters ranging from coinage to religious customs, the imperial administration was generally content to leave local conventions in place, and I imagine units of measurement were no exception. The influence of the military was probably an important means of standardization.

[@QuantumHistorian]

@@toldinstonefootnotes Thanks for the speedy answer!

[@Jazmillenium]

I've been loving these Q&A's. The questions are so interesting and you do such a great job at explaining and painting a great picture of the topic you cover.

[@Reziac]

A "pace" is not a leaping step; it's a left-right, so two easy steps, or about five feet. -- I've used it myself to measure a plot of land, and found I was only about ten feet off for a boundary that was 660 feet long. (But that's how I found the buried survey marker.) How Rome dealt with malaria would be an interesting topic.

[@overcorpse]

5 feet? Are you a giant?

[@Reziac]

@@overcorpse A "pace" is a right step plus a left step. It's not just the one.

[@overcorpse]

@@Reziac I know what a pace is. A pace is generally 30 inches, which 2.5 feet. Not 5. What you stated is wrong. A pace is a single stride. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pl7CpWmQYreAiJo&ab_channel=AdrianSnood In the United States the pace is an uncommon customary unit of length denoting a brisk single step and equal to 2+1⁄2 feet or 30.0 inches or 76.2 centimetres.

[@Reziac]

@@overcorpse Not as the Romans used it.

[@overcorpse]

@@Reziac You must be the only person on the planet to still use a 2000year old measurement. That, or you obfuscating.

[@BenjaminIMeszaros]

Really love this QA series

[@eutropius2699]

Such interesting questions that get asked. I think these Q&A’s are my favorite of your videos.

[@markp44288]

Excellent questions. Thank you so much for this!

[@brianj5635]

Thanks for this. I’m in Michigan - any chance you plan on doing any live lectures in the region (Chicago or Ann Arbor for example)?

[@toldinstonefootnotes]

I do the very occasional book signing, but unfortunately that's the full extent of my live appearances. If I'm ever asked to give a lecture, I'll be sure to mention it in a community announcement!

[@Lisa-ol1ih]

I love hearing you answer questions! I'm trying to think of a good one to ask :)

[@cerberus6654]

Great, as ever. Thanks!

[@JaronLukasXYZ]

Very interesting topic!

[@marioconte6223]

2:10 Goths and mullets Always has been a win combination I see

[@keithagn]

Very informative and interesting . Thank you!

[@evillyn7895]

Verrrry interesting!

[@nathanielscreativecollecti6392]

Other than the golden age of the Adoptive Emperors, when were the most stable times to be a Roman? What about in the Republic?

[@erics7992]

There was a lot of factionalism and instability during the Republic because all of the rival oligarchs were always fighting each other.

[@alext2300]

How popular was Marcus Aurelius while he was in power?

[@gajofre]

Some Jewish kid that thought he had spartan 300 blood, just got his heart broken.

[@bob-wo3ir]

As an Israeli and a Jewish person, I never heard of this claim. Like Ever. It makes no sense.

[@TVYL3IGH]

@@bob-wo3ir Free the apartheid Israeli state to the hands of the rightful Palestinians.

[@through-faith-alone]

@@bob-wo3ir it makes perfect sense, satan

[@QuantumHistorian]

A question for future Q&A: What was "guest friendship" exactly, and how did it work? I know it involved members of the elite of different cities (or states) and was somewhat formalised, even to the point of being hereditary, but nobody ever seems to mention any details.

[@simplepixel5617]

What would be one fact that fascinates you the most about the Etruscans? Big fan of Etruscans asking.

[@craigpage2638]

Thanks for all the fantastic content you provide! Your sound is definitely too quiet in this video though!

[@redjacc7581]

I have a question please : It's clear that Athens and other greek city states had either fear or at least a very healthy respect for the Spartan land army. They also don't seem to me to be the sorts of people to have these opinions via legends or hearsay, but considering how indecisive and poor the Spartans seem to be during the peloponnesian war with Athens being far more aggressive and innovative with their strategies where does this fighting reputation the Spartans have actually come from? It's clear that these city states had these opinions before and during the Greco-Persian wars so what wars before this time was this reputation forged? or is this lost to history?

[@toldinstonefootnotes]

I'll add your question to the Q&A list!

[@VulcanLogic]

The Spartans conquered their neighbors around the late 8th early 7th century BCE, and then created a militaristic society in order to control those neighbors as what amounts to serfs. While the Athenians and other city states had slaves, those slaves were in the minority. The helots in Sparta outnumbered the Spartans by as much as 8 to 1. The way their society was organized, the Spartans were effectively all warrior nobility in order to control those helots, who did all the farming. The other city states relied on part time citizen soldiers and mercenaries. The Spartan army was professional, with every male getting years of training. Now, 1 on 1, Spartans weren't any better than the best warriors of other city states. But battles were not fought 1 on 1. They were fought in phalanx formations, which require a high degree of cooperation and coordination. The Spartans simply spent more time drilling that anyone else could, and because of that, they were the best at phalanx warfare. Before Thermopylae, they'd only lost two battles in the prior 300 years, neither on their own territory. And they did win the Peloponnesian war in the end.

[@faithlesshound5621]

@@VulcanLogic The Spartans were greatly admired by authoritarians all over Europe in the following centuries. Those who came nearest to emulating them were the Teutonic Knights who "crusaded" and colonized what was then heathen Poland and Lithuania. Their protestant successors formed a militaristic society In Prussia, whose Dukes and Kings kept a large standing army of mercenaries who were hired out to other rulers when they were not expanding Frederick the Great's domains. The Junker warrior class provided the officer corps in exchange for a free hand with their serfs and exemption from taxes: in return they made no fuss about democracy. It was all funded by Brandenburg, of which their King happened also to be Prince-Elector. In our times, militarised societies who controlled large subject populations were found in Rhodesia, South Africa, North Korea and Israel/ Palestine. Maybe also the antebellum South of the USA and the European colonial regimes in Africa, Asia and America?

[@VulcanLogic]

@@faithlesshound5621 Yes, that is unfortunate. The American republic is more closely modeled on Sparta than Athens or even Rome. You see, Sparta was a democracy. As long as you didn't count the women or helots.

[@musashidanmcgrath]

@@VulcanLogic Sparta wasn't a democracy, it was a constitutional monarchy. They had 2 kings, and this is where the Romans took the idea for 2 consuls. The Romans invented the Republic based on a mixture of Spartan and Athenian political systems. They borrowed the 'best parts' from both. The American Republic was modeled on Rome, not Sparta. As I mentioned, Sparta was a monarchist system.

[@hglundahl]

7:06 Wasn't the acre later called iugerum in Medieval texts? Was the definition fitted to a larger area (10/6 of original) by the early Medieval improvements of ploughs?

[@alext2300]

What is a common misconception about Ancient Greeks or Greece that you find funny?

[@andreavgr]

What do you think about Greece and Italy today? Is it extremely hard to stand up to the overglorified past? And the main question is whether or not you think that these two countries will ever produce anything as memorable as these overglorified pasts that will actually stand the test of time like say democracy of Athens, fighting spirit of the Spartans or the overall glory of Rome in its height? Like in the year 3500 will these countries have anything to be remembered for other than what we already know about them?

[@erics7992]

A curious thing which may or may not have anything to do with Sparta: Abraham took another wife after Sarah died and fathered several children with her whose names and descendants are listed in Gen 25 I think. That chapter was the first and last time that any of them are mentioned in the Hebrew Scriptures. If there was any link in Spartan lore it was probably through this connection. Maybe once the Septuagint was published and Genesis became known to the Greek speaking world, which took place around the time of the Maccabees, maybe they saw a name they recognized. Or maybe like you said it was all just politics and diplomacy.

[@deutschermichel5807]

didnʼt the Spartians firmly believe that they werenʼt native Greeks but rather immigrants, who conquered and subjugated the native Greeks? Is this true? And where did the Spartians think they came from?

[@erics7992]

@@deutschermichel5807 That is interesting. I wasn't aware that they believed that.

[@abyssimus]

The suggestion I'm seeing for where the idea that both Spartans and Jews were related is that the Spartans claimed descent from Danaos, who was expelled from Egypt supposedly around the same time as the Exodus. Doesn't necessarily establish relations by our standards but would have been regarded as absolute proof by many pre-modern standards.

[@gregstephens2339]

Coppicing and pollard were both employed. They were actually very efficient more like every one or two years. Coppicing is for trees like American poplars that grow from the stump. Pollarding is from hand reach height up from the trunk. A pollarded tree is one that might today be trimmed for power line access. Smaller branches grow from the trunk continuously. Most trees do this. Many tree species die when cut at the stump. A few grow sprouts from the stum very quickly. These are coppices.

[@ChopinIsMyBestFriend]

Very cool to hear you talking about the apocrypha. Very interested in non canonical scripture.

[@KennethJArthofer]

Please do a video on the Gemonian stairs or stairs of sorrow, in the ancient Roman Forum.

[@bluenoteone]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Miles Passus is from: "Miles" which is the singular of the Latin Noun for soldier, while "Passus" is pace. Thus, 1000 Roman soldier paces was the mile. Could you imagine if you had to be the pace counter for force marches of the legion? I suppose miscounting might cause you that number of lashes per pace either way.

[@ntonisa6636]

Toldinstone this Jewish-Spartan story has a modern afterlife too that you may find interesting. Back in late 2018, the international Jewish advocacy group B'nai B'rith (or its Greece based "Philon" chapter) with support from the Mayor of Sparta and the Greek-Israeli Cooperation Institute organised an international confererence titled “Sparta-Israel: Renewing an Ancient Friendship” with various academics and officials and even the then Hellenic Army Chief attending. I wanted to quote some excerpts of Dr. Noah Hacham's lecture on this topic from the Jerusalem Post's coverage of the event but youtube censors my comment for whatever reason 🙄

[@paulkoza8652]

Thanks Garrett, you really know your shit!

[@chrisd997]

Your content and delivery is amazing . Your voice , narration and delivery is what makes this channel even more awesome

[@lsmith6036]

I love this show

[@dukecity7688]

I just began The War with Hannibal by Livy. i cannot believe how they tore up the land. I try to imagine the damage inflicted by Hannibal but most of all i don't know how he lost. i am blown away by how superstitious the Romans were- The chickens won't eat - no fighting today. They consult Gods bfore any decision.

[@viatorinterra]

I was reading about Sparta and the Maccabees when I see this video pop up

[@bob-wo3ir]

Hammer of Judea was an epic name

[@justinspringstun5836]

Another fascinating video, I highly recommend buying Dr. Ryan Book it’s fantastic! Keep up the good work!

[@blaqueup]

The yogum (spellling?) if about 6/10ths an acre woudl be ~0.24 hectares. At least based on quick Googlin'. I kind of always have an issue even visualzing an acre to begin with.

[@HebaruSan]

A Roman pace sounds pretty close to a running stride. Maybe the idea was to be able to measure distances quickly by having runners count their steps.

[@jensphiliphohmann1876]

I understand the Roman measurement system better than the Imperial one: The word "mile" comes from "mille" meaning 1000 and a mile being 1000 passi is feasible. BTW: The Roman foot seems to match a light nanosecond quite precisely.

[@serslack6175]

Has there been any serious attempts to find Alaric I 's tomb in Italy?

[@Happyfsscist33]

Could they have used wood as ballist dropped of for goods or stone?

[@mikeh7917]

Wasn't Caracala nicknamed after a Gaulish cloak??

[@TheZinmo]

A passus is not a single giant step, its two steps (left-right). So it was much easier to count while marching.

[@RammsteinFan1100]

I love all of your videos. My kind suggestion would be to try to improve your pronounciation of old greek and latin words to try to say it how would greek and romans say not to implement american pronounciation its not correct.

[@Timrath]

Regarding the first question, I remember reading that Roman women at some point wore wigs made of blond Germanic hair, and dyed their own hair to make it look like that of their Germanic slaves.

[@graphosxp]

💯👍

[@pauljthacker]

What did the Greeks/Romans know about Sub-Saharan Africa?

[@bosertheropode5443]

The romans made a couple expiditions down the nile and also south of the sahara, around the area where modern day Mali is. The carthiginians also travelled down to western and possibly even central Africa, so they didn't know nothing to say the least.

[@Michelle-Eden]

How was Roman concrete made?

[@musashidanmcgrath]

I think it's important to differentiate between the Spartans of the Trojan epic and the later Spartans of Thermopylae. They were not the same people.

[@WTFisDrifting]

As a kid I loved the Spartans never knowing enough of their culture and history. As an adult I basically see them as the bad guys now 🤷‍♂️ That whole purging of the helots thing

[@guygustard3340]

Original Spartan contact was to secure a friendly port for an expedition... forgot the details, been 40-yrs.

[@orestes87]

You briefly touch on evergetism, but I wonder how this worked. What were the incentives that made the elites spend large amounts of money on public works. From what I understand provincial local elites did most of it. When did it start and what motivated it?

[@faithlesshound5621]

Rich people still do a lot of charity work and donate public buildings. Owning a sports team should probably be included. This enhances their reputation, takes eyes off their business dealings and at least in the UK can also bring then honours and titles of nobility.

[@johnrodgers2018]

Probably the Jews were on the side of the Persia and Xerxies during the battle of thermopylae as it was a satrapy at the time.

[@jonathanjochem7289]

You're talking olive oil exclusively? Or including animal fats as well?

[@professorsogol5824]

If the Romans were trying to connect themselves mythically with theGreeks, why did they select Aeneas as the link? Wasn't Aeneas, the son of Anchises, a Trojan prince and a cousin of Priam, and Aphrodite? Other than the divinity of his mother, it seems a rather tenuous connection.

[@jakep6660]

I don't think it's a tenuous connection to explicitly tie themselves to one of the central characters of the Trojan war. They were obviously of different stock to the Greeks, but by claiming descent from the Trojans they could tie themselves to most important mythological/historical tradition of the Greek world and the prestige that came with it. Secondly, though they had more respect for the Greeks than any other civilization, they also liked to contrast themselves to the Greeks, who they'd stigmatize as effeminate, sometimes impious (or subverting Roman institutions with Orientalizing influence), as well as "tricky". This negative archetype could be seen with their negative valuation of Odysseus/Ulysses as a dishonorable trickster. Third, I think there was a pre-existing notion in the Etruscan civilization, which obviously influenced the Romans, of having been descended from the people of Asia Minor / Anatolia, which some modern scholars have also speculated.

[@josephtrahan8045]

Now I have a new movie I need to watch

[@alecmisra4964]

The relatedness probably stems from the era of the sea peoples and is not wholly fictitious. Sea faring lost tribe of Dan from greek Danaans for example.

[@Theaddekalk]

on the subject about judaism, and the dwelling into christianity and the new testament. whe jesus is taken by the romans to in the end crucify. There is a word that say there is a cohort (john18:3), getting him in the garden of getsemaneh. now cohort is alot of soldiers and in my own country sweden the cohort translation dosent exist. So my questions would be some of these 1. how big was teh garrison of jeruslaem 2. is it really a cohort in the oldest manuscripts, and would someone really write cohort if it wasnt 3. would a roman guard really sedn so many soldiers for one person? (altough they might have seen him as a trouble maker and he had a big following)

[@musashidanmcgrath]

The Persians wore trousers too, and the Greeks ridiculed them as 'effeminate' for wearing them.

[@lenormand4967]

There is evidence of their relation. The Greco Romans were the notable Israelites who departed by ship before the main exodus. Spartans were tribe of Simeon and Shelah-Judah. Common Romans were Zereh-judah, and elite Romans were Phares-judah.

[@NeuKrofta]

The Spartans resisted the market bankers. They were so adamant that they banned silver and gold and put into circulation iron coinage and went so far as quenching it in vinegar to make the iron absolutely useless.

[@staceytaustaceyla1676]

the ancient irish chronicles will show you sparta are related and much more ...

[@waltervanderkamp742]

I read somewhere that Roman slaves were freed/discharged by a slap on the cheek. Could this be related somehow to the famous maxim "turn the other cheek'?

[@WagesOfDestruction]

Why would the Spartans or the Jews think that either was important for them? More importantly, the book of Maccabees talks of a Roman alliance.

[@jsoth2675]

We're there ever any attempts to recreate the legionaire, that came even close to being successful? I understand mithridates tried but didn't quite pan out. So anyone else give it a go and have any success?

[@Kourash]

Hello, I have a question for you an upcoming Q&A How did the Roman’s and Greeks know what a godlike, chiseled, and perfect body looked like for artwork such as paintings and statues? To achieve such perfection in modern times would require at least some kind of steroid. It’s hard for me to imagine these bodies being possible for models even if they were in an army or an active athlete. Are we unaware of the exercise and eating regimens utilized by those of antiquity to obtain these physiques?

[@QuantumHistorian]

There's a chapter in his book about exercise regimes and training methods. But you definitely don't need steroids to get a body like that seen on statues.

[@VulcanLogic]

Short answer for the statues, math. There's a lot written about the proportions used by sculptors. Athletes, soldiers, and gladiators trained with weights, gymnastics, and cardio. We've found examples. As for the body fat ratios, these were people who walked and ran everywhere they had to go, and didn't have any processed sugars or trans fats in their diets.

[@InnesHeppler]

I live in the UK. The Romans referred to us as "Brittunculi" - little Britons. Are you aware of any tribes they did not patronise?

[@medwayhospitalprotest]

Viz trousers / pants, the Russian for trousers is брюки (bri-ooki), much like breeks (Scottish). Breeches are not really trousers in England, breeches end just past the knee.

[@00029percent]

Spartans had to have no individualism. So that's out also

[@through-faith-alone]

Why would the Spartan king say that about himself? What's the gain? Who's the one asking for help? You're attempting to wave this away without making a real argument against its validity.

[@lkrnpk]

So you want to say that Popular Front of Judea supported Hellenization but People's Front of Judea did not?

[@bassinc3039]

Every major empire has excepted merchant marine banking families' services that were in the interest of the empire. This has never changed.

[@bfrehksdhf]

Most underrated history comment of the year.

[@sonofapollon447]

This sounds like a joke but it's a serious question: Were Roman men allowed to bottom in sex during Saturnalia? Considering all societal rules were suspended during that holiday.

[@andrewhaycox]

i though this was going to be about gangs in LA

[@keouine]

Did literate non wealthy Romans have an equivalent of our disposable note pads and erasable message boards for short messages, lists, reminders?. id est writing not intended to last or impress

[@thilomasonry]

I can tell he's not a perpetual adolescents agenda Psy-op asset, no toys on shelves and not just answering contrived prompts with the rest of the class.

[@texasRoofDoctor]

I daresay that the Maccabean claim of kinship with Sparta probably has more merit than that nonsense by Virgil.

[@galaxyn3214]

Maccabees unite!

[@PalleRasmussen]

Gallons? Why not measure in hogsheads and bushels? As logical.

[@kierondillon4458]

The problem with the " barbarians is they looked effing great!!!!!!!!

[@omosango7870]

ALL of the Maccabees books are apocryphal. 1st maccabees prob should be canonical imo fwiw ( little)

[@thumper8684]

Were stinging nettles a form of biological warfare?

[@pound7816]

i suspect the jews hated sparta because the empire had no money

[@thomaslthomas1506]

Fear the mullet!

[@HistoryHunter3000]

Bonobos connect with bonobos

[@garybusey7625]

After the Jews tried to steal Spartan gold, they got their asses kicked by the 300. THIS IS SPARTA!!!!

[@Diogenes_43]

They were a mostly irrelevant province until Christianity made them famous.

[@kowalityjesus]

Which Roman Emperor was the most racist?

[@Ian-yf7uf]

Hellenistic societies like the Romans and Greeks had a weirdly antagonistic relationship with the Jews

[@Sapnfap]

The romans warred with virtually all surrounding peoples but when you consider this as normal then Roman Jewish relations weren't actually that bad. For example Jewish religious freedom was tolerated at a far higher level then early Christianity.

[@Ian-yf7uf]

@@Sapnfap early Christianity was seen as a hostile outside religion. Interestingly, archeological findings for philistine graves in Israel show very close genetic relationship with Mycenaean Greeks. Initial Roman interaction with Jews involved genocidal warfare and the maccabean rebellion killed something like 600k Roman civilians around Jewish occupied territories.

[@Sapnfap]

@@Ian-yf7uf I don't debate any of what you've said but I don't find it particularly different from the status quo of how Rome interacted with any of the other surrounding peoples. Still there was a Jewish Quarter in Rome itself and Prominent Jews like Josephus were integrated into Roman society.

[@Ian-yf7uf]

@@Sapnfap yes, what you are saying is true and I agree with it. Jews were treated much like many other people in ancient Rome. The main difference is the Jewish people were able to keep their ethnic identity which sparked much of the precursors to anti semitism in Europe.

[@billrosenstein]

Spartans were way before the jews

[@kaykay865]

Lol