Were We Wrong About Drop Bar MTBs?

[@gmbn]

Would you ride drop bars on your MTB?

[@tim__sadler]

I rode in Marin with Jacquie Phelan who wouldn't shut up about how awesome drop bars were on her Cunningham frame - good old WOMBATS (that's a reference for Owen...). I did try it for a couple of weeks on some of the NorCal trail near where I lived, and to be honest it was pretty good on fireroad climbs and flats, but as soon as it pointed down, i.e. the good stuff, it was rubbish

[@TheDarKris]

I already do 😂

[@rumberitoboricua]

Snake oil salemen

[@Paganiproductions84]

i am curious the conversion is pretty expensive i would to try with my older xc hardtail

[@K9Manhunters]

No, because I lack the skills on the downhill. I have a gravel bike and on technical terrain I am slower downhill than on my HT MTB. Generally I prefer flat bars with innerbarends.

[@hail_sagan2830]

I think this video is missing the point. The question isn’t whether a drop-bar MTB is faster than a flat-bar MTB on traditional MTB courses-we know it’s not-it’s whether this bike is faster than a gravel bike on rougher, chunkier gravel courses OR faster than a flat-bar bike on milder, marathon MTB courses. I don’t think anyone is under the impression that drop bars will be faster on very technical single track with berms and features. Additionally, the test is somewhat invalidated by the discrepancy in lockout. Average speed is HIGHLY dependent on climbing speed, and not locking out the suspension is a significant loss in efficiency. Finally, there are seemingly some build issues. The drop bar cockpit should not be using the same length of stem as the flat bars, as it will position the rider’s weight much too far forward. And those brakes seem to be set up incorrectly, with too much lever throw, naturally leading to a loss of braking power and confidence. A more valid comparison would have also included a fully rigid bike, which would be much more illuminating re: the purpose of this kind of build.

[@zegomabeach]

@@hail_sagan2830 The lack of lockout may have been a bigger factor than the aerodynamic advantage from the drops.

[@richsydenham8536]

😂

[@mkamstrup]

This!!! They don't get it. Completly useless 14min of video on youtube.

[@stefanvasilev2013]

True, and there are other things to consider as well. Coming from road, I personally feel more at home on drop bars, even on my MTB. I also don't have the skills to ride where flat bars really make a difference. Add some kms on the pavement to go to the trail and back, and a few more to connect trails if you're going out for a big day, and suddenly the drop bar MTB starts making huge sense (or a gravel bike with a suspension fork). I am currently considering splurging on AXS shifting since you can just swap bars and have both setups available if you route the brakes externally. At the end of the day, the flat bar setup will always have a higher ceiling on technical terrain though.

[@egoinjury]

yes you nailed it

[@williambrazil3760]

Good to see Dylan getting kudos from other channels

[@jonahdewitt8464]

He’s somehow going to still be salty about GMBN / GCN

[@2001MBKBooster]

Leadville isn’t really a “technical” course. Yes, there are a few sections that classify as single track but the vast majority of the there-and-back route is on dirt, gravel and forest service roads. For the most part, drop bars are the way to go here as you’re mostly riding a rougher ‘gravel’ course. As Neal mentioned, ‘monstercross’ bikes have their place - on longer, less technical terrain. Look at the Continental Divide race for instance. Most of the riders are on mountain bikes with drop bars. At the end of the day, it does not really matter as the entire point of mountain biking is to have fun - and you can do this on a flat bar or drop bar bike.

[@Hilirimpsuti]

Agree on a part. For me the fun aspect is also to explore new trails and to challenge myself. I found my local, familiar and well ridden MTB trails to be more exciting with a gravel bike after riding the trails years with MTB. Don't know if the difference is as significant with dropbars in MTB frame but as Neil mentioned dropbars give an extra excitement and for me that excitement is also part of the fun, especially on trails that are much easier with ordinary MTB. This also gives a big improvement on riding skills with MTB as well.

[@zap...]

Drop bars are better on technical trails. Ask anyone I ride with.

[@petrd1104]

Tour Divide is the answer, as you correctly mentioned. Women's record is still held with dropbar MTB. I have one "monster" too, and for my purpose it's best bike I ever had.

[@almabatekert_villanykorte3387]

​@@zap... Dunno how to tell you this but you're not riding actual tech then

[@zap...]

@@almabatekert_villanykorte3387 Actually, you dunno much at all.

[@michaelcorriveau4944]

I was looking into gravel bikes and saw that the momentum in design is moving towards bigger tires. I decided to get a cheap 29er MTB and convert it to drop bar. I also have a retro road bike and a fat bike MTB. I like quirky bikes and drop bar mtbs look like so much fun

[@bentonvanderwege7634]

I did the same thing and am loving it so far. It's a super versatile bike.

[@Frostbiker]

With bar-end shifters?

[@bentonvanderwege7634]

@@Frostbiker nope, I got a set of Microshift levers that worked with my deore derailleur. Had to switch to cable actuated brakes which was a bit of a bummer.

[@robertlangland3351]

I took a hard tail all arounder kept the fat tires put a rigid carbon fork on it and 105 shifters with drop handlebars. Great bike to go out and just ride wherever I want.

[@Kristian_Saile]

I remember watching Tomac racing drop bar at NORBA Nationals back in the 80’s. Had that Tioga disc rear wheel too. Some good memories, man it’s been wild watching the sport evolve from that period till now

[@ExplosiveNotes]

Now compare those with steering wheel setup, which Sam Pilgrim used couple times 😁

[@ExplosiveNotes]

@@iansingleton I think you replied to different comment than you intended.

[@iansingleton]

@@ExplosiveNotes cheers mate 👍

[@kidShibuya]

Faster on the bike you are used to riding? I am shocked.

[@stigmaxxiii]

Dylan Johnson has been the driving force for drop bars being introduced and popularized for a long time now......and also, wider tires in gravel.

[@hereticyogiexpectationsups4037]

As Keegan won the race, he had zero F%#@$ to give about what his bike looked like.

[@paulagius1480]

I started cycling on mountain bikes. When I switched on to a gravel bike I found much comfortable. If you have a 2 by 11 gears, it will be much faster. I still use an MTB occasionally, but prefer the drop bars, especially for longer distances.

[@luis__jrtx]

Built up an old Jamis Dragon 9r frame with 27.5+ , drop bars and fixed drive. It ALWAYS puts an immediate smile on my face.

[@KevinT3141]

The conventional bike would be faster if it had maroon grips that matched the seat stays.

[@gmbn]

Probably true 😅

[@tossemanden]

Thanks for the video! Great production and interesting topic. Well done.

[@Mtb9r]

As you say old school as can be, it was cool watching Tomac first hand. We used to flip them over on our 10 speed shwinn bikes. Rip it up.

[@cokebottles6919]

I don't think many would claim drop bars are better on technical terrain, it's a pretty specific use case for gravel courses. Aerodynamics on gravel and road are extremely important... on even mild mtb courses, that extra control with flat bars is gonna come out ahead every time.

[@luoneil1]

And most important he won with hard tail.... that today 95 percent of racers rode full suspension

[@joelstewartinstruments]

Interesting to see that inner bar ends are also banned for xc. I run them on both trail bike and hardtail. The hoods position was all I missed coming from gravel to mtb and inner bar ends are near enough (whether nice SQlabs ones or perfectly fine eBay £7 ones), with actually better access to brakes.

[@irfuel]

But outers aren't ... God knows why ...

[@rothermelyer6049]

Wich ones are you using?

[@joelstewartinstruments]

@@rothermelyer6049 Two different kinds of cheap eBay ones (one that you can’t get any more which I think are the old style of Spirgrips, the other are these simple hollow ones that I really like). My girlfriend has SQLabs ones on her ATB type bike. They probably are the best.

[@bcmtnbka]

This is a drop bar conversion . What if the drop bar bike has a geometry designed around the drop bar? Shorter reach and taller stack may make a difference

[@chris_noswe]

They're called adventure bikes, or all-road bikes and some even call them - you guessed it - drop bar mountain bikes. It's not a new thing. but if your only cycling media consumption is GMBN I guess you'd never heard or seen one.

[@bcmtnbka]

@@chris_noswe I started riding in the 80's and I know that they are not a new things and I have use drop bars on my mountain bikes for over a decade.

[@stefanvasilev2013]

Man's got a valid point. The longer, lower, slacker trend may not be the best for drop bars if you associate them to the responsiveness of a road bike. As such I wouldn't necessarily put them on any random modern MTB, but look for an older, as mentioned shorter and taller bike, also with steeper head angle. It doesn't hurt to turn the stem upwards, too, to avoid the drops being too low. The video feels lazy and sloppy in that regard.

[@DanielGonzalez-td4mo]

The results vary because you are not used to drop bars and using leg movement to take the curves, so you mostly rely on your arms and the flat bars to control the curves while descending. If you want to understand the concept, you could watch any Tom Pidcock descent video, and watch closely to the leg movement for the curves

[@whssy]

Notice also higher BPM average on the flat bar.... On an endurance ride that might make a difference.

[@lovenottheworld5723]

It's how the bones and joints in the arms, shoulders and wrists line up in the individual.

[@ChampyOnPC]

Great energy in this one Neil! :D

[@stormeporm]

For me drop bars are more comfortable on really long rides. And it makes things just a bit more sketch which can be a good thing where I live.

[@erents1]

I was bike packing the Appalachian Trail on touring bikes with drop bars back in 1977. I rode one in 82 in Leadville while working in the mines. I now ride a mountain bike in the high Sierra every day at 67 years of age.😬

[@BrotoGP]

I rode a lot of the flat Leadville sections with my hands near the stem. Drop bars would have been nice.

[@clarklowe5632]

My gravel bike is a drop bar MTB hard tail built it back during Covid as a project, works great for non technical. I generally keep with my 140/130 bike or my big bike for real Mtbing. Mainly made the change after riding a rough gravel race on my old Cyclocross bike ('90 steel) and having issues on long down hills with out suspension as an old man with a rebuilt shoulder from a high speed downhill crash and wanted real suspension.

[@samclarke9254]

I’ve seen quite a few XC MTBs running TT bars for long distance events. Would be an interesting comparison. The main benefits of running these types of setups is comfort and better aero positioning on longer rides which may be an advantage on non technical sections.

[@DavidDuchodca]

i had TT bars on my HT... Will say this. If you are comfortable enough in that position you can make it work. You will definitely be faster and a lot --> good 15-20% in my case (avg speed 28km/h to 34km/h), but comfort took a hit and used them less and less. Now back to my innerbarends for longer rides on pavement or on gravel on my HT... but it's definitely fun for sprints, surprised my friend on gravel couple of times that i can be faster than him if need be :D

[@Paganiproductions84]

i would live a more longer test of this concept

[@Paganiproductions84]

i would like to kown how they would do a xcm style race

[@phrides]

You definitely looked better riding the drop bar bike though, and that's what really counts on KZbin. I think of a drop bar MTB as an alternative to a gravel bike, so you can make gravel rides more interesting by linking gravel roads together with sections of technical single track, rather than sections of pavement. It's a longer-distance application though. I doubt it makes anything faster, but it sure allows for some interesting routes where you can both cover a lot of ground and get well off the beaten track.

[@zubayrbhyat8077]

Riding big distance with drop bars probably helps. For shorter techy trails I'll take flat bars. My wrists, arms and shoulders took a beating over the last week on flat bars and I wish I had more positions to play with. There was all sorts of nasty corrugation and sand over 340kms or so.

[@tjb8841]

You didn’t shorten the stem on the drop bars. Most drop bars have around 75 mm reach, so you need to shorten the stem by the same unit, or a bit less due to the narrower bars. With this set up, you are reaching a lot further forward on the drop bar vs the flat bar

[@briancooker2723]

@@tjb8841 I agree And I would say shorten the stem even more , In the video the rider is descending on the drops The new RED brake and shifter are designed to be ridden and braked on the Hoods . The only reason you see people descending on the drops is because the braking on the hoods is insufficient. Basically the video is super out of date

[@jramirezar]

Great video, I have a few bikes at home, and the last try was a gravel bike, but didn't like it, so I decided to convert my 29er HT, and installed a corner bar knock off, si that I could still use my MTB components, it has been better than the gravel, bike, very stable on and offroad, a bit difficult fit because of increased reach, but swapped stem and has been great planning on changing tires, and maybe use an old set of wheels with road tires...

[@tonysadler5290]

I see the reasonng, and although the benefits are there, I wouldn't want to try more than a blue on drops - plus at my age I don't bend like that anymore! Horses for courses - if it works for you and your style I can't see why anyone else should criticise anyone for their choice, and aero' is a thing. Good video Neil thank you.

[@johnpriolo4026]

I remember attending the Thanksgiving Day Ride on Mount Tamalpais back in the day and Tomac showed up n his Yeti with drop bars.

[@bk83082]

I seem to remember that racers were using drops, specifically in the Leadville 100, like 15 years ago.

[@MJQuintana]

That bike looks great!

[@anthonyharris483]

I had a 89' Speshy Rockcombo which I should've keep dammit. It was a drop bar hybrid mountain bike back then

[@AidanHoggard]

If you get a Surly Corner Bar you can try it out something similar for under £100 (the cost of the bar). All your MTB controls can just swap over (and back). You don't have to compromise on braking as you keep your MTB brakes.

[@stevenr5149]

I like to have my drop position similar to my flat bar position-as I use it in more technical situations. My stem puts my drop hand position at about 20- 30mm ahead of the headset-which makes my steering input fast & reactive for those technical areas. The tops are much higher and I cruise in comfort in that position they are 60mm from the headset-more mellow & forgiving steering control for cruising. A key is a small drop like in the Ritchey Becon. Since the mid 90s, the flat bars gave me numbness and pain in wrists & hands.

[@stevenr5149]

fyi if i am on the drops and i need to have my fingers ON the brake levers, it does move my hand position more forward-but I don’t ride that stuff as much now. You may want a shorter stem if you like to ride the front of your drop bars. NOT a simple swap.

[@basengelblik5199]

You should have done this test with a powermeter. Simple addition and it makes it a fair comparison.

[@gregallen9643]

Interesting comparison. Cannot get behind drop bars on XC. Will stick with flat bars. Great job!

[@gmbn]

Thanks for watching!

[@PoorWorksmanship]

Jeez that bar tape job needs some attention

[@danielcedolin2034]

Brilliant 😂. What happened to the 50 to 70 mm riser bars

[@thecakeisalie7070]

Next up. Is a beach cruiser handlebar faster than drop bars? 😂

[@milengerov1940]

I ride drop bar on my DH bike. And droper on my roady. Without saddle.

[@CristoffelBonorand]

Maybe to have the different hand positions for long rides a Surly Corner Bar would be a better choice, it gives you similar positions while accepting the existing mtb controls. Doesn’t look any better, but for sure more accessible if you just wanna try it out.

[@stevewaslin7171]

I remember putting bull bars on our racing bikes years ago

[@diegoeleazar9154]

To go fast you must be comfortable and confident. This is why such thing were made.

[@willyolio]

I wanted to make a gravel bike, but all gravel bike tires were still too small for me. I wanted to get into XC mtb territory at minimum, 2.0" fast rolling tires. And lightweight, of course. So i got a carbon hardtail frame... Then a solid carbon fork... Then drop bars. Works great. Fast on the road, light on the hills, great on gravel and occasionally some green runs in the mountain.

[@ptchristanMTB]

Hi Neil, try the same setup 3 more times just to get used to the setup and see if there is time improvement or better yet if you can beat the flat bar. 😁

[@TheProjectX3]

Sam Pilgrim rides a steering wheel, he is ahead of time!

[@yeahboiwahoo]

The real abomination is the headset cable routing.

[@tailswinsmore5054]

I've never used SRAM and dont know if i ever will but it's the obvious choice for a mtb with drop bars.

[@glynrs2147]

Compatability is easier with SRAM. If you have an Eagle AXS setup on your MTB XC bike with Level 2 pot brakes, if you swapped to drop bars you would just need to fit a set of SRAM Rival or Force AXS brake lever/shifters. I think the cross over is more with hardtail XC bike and the extreme end of gravel/adventure bike spectrum

[@G60syncro]

As a roadie, I'd be totally fine with running drops on a MTB.... Actually in the winter I run a beater road bike with wider bullhorns for more leverage in the snow... And wasn't that the MTB setup of the 90's of straight bars with add-on horns?? My winter setup mimics my summer bike but better suited to sketchy situations. I think a MTB with shallow drops with lots of flare are a totally sensible idea!!

[@Shane_has_a_muddy_bike-rx2dv]

Done it to an old Cannondale lefty hardtail. Reach is too far, really need a smaller frame but i added 2.6 plus tyres and its really good fun :)

[@maxritter7868]

I have an old cross/mtb thing which I'm planning to give drop bars to. It's on 700x40c tires but has a spring fork. I was thinking about using something like the Curly bar for the conversion so I don't have to mess around with the shifters and brakes and what not and just use the stuff that's already on the bike to keep cost down.

[@someoldguy5181]

I think SRAM make it even easier with the AXS compatibility between drop bars and MTB components, your GCN stablemates would have different idea of a mullet setup, there is an idea make a bike with a double mullet, it would be awful

[@simonpowell2559]

We moved on from skinny tyres and drop bars, now going back? Crazy.

[@szymonz.8448]

I ride my 2015 Santa Cruz Highball with Surly Cornerbar which gives kinda same sensation as Dropbar but my bike is completely stiff. No fork sus so basically I’ve made a gravel bike. It’s my ultimate city machine and I call this bike „Bandit”

[@whssy]

Kudos for mentioning Cunningham bikes. No kudos for not mentioning Jacqui Phelan!

[@OriginalTrev]

Flat bar gravel bike with a carbon fork and suspension stem isn't a race bike, but it's sufficiently fast and comfortable on smooth and rough terrain riding 700x35c Conti Speed King CX

[@Cg-fh5re]

I think it’s a bad choice though I thought about it myself. Better is either proper gravel or hardtail with inner bar ends

[@davidpinnington213]

Aero is everything (see bike fit comment too on frame size and cranks come to that too) - particularly on gravel - however i don't think we'll see drops on free xc dh rigs anytime soon unless it's someone with attention seeking issues

[@nicholkid]

Just FYI, Keegan also said he wouldn't have done this without the new Sram Red groupset. Apparently the brakes in the hoods on the new Red is way better than any other drop bar brake. I imagine the GRX ones aren't as up to the task.

[@alanross7979]

Can't you stick the squid lockout somewhere without changing lever or cables? On the bars would be a lot less reach than reaching to the shock. Thanks for the content. Drop bar MTBs are interesting at present. Cheers

[@budycelyn]

i have a spare hardtail that i put my old gravel bike groupset on, reason for it is a trail i ride around 15 miles is 85% nice gravel "fast on a gravel bike" 10% rough gravel "not so much fun on a gravel bike" and 5% mtb territory "wrist smashing on a gravel bike", mtb is slow on the 85% but a drop bar mtb with the gearing of a gravel bike is just right for the route.

[@erlendsteren9466]

A big difference between dropbar and flatbar OIZ is that Keegan is a virtous on his flatbar OIz but new to the dropbarbike. My first high end "gravelbike" was a narrow flatbar fullsuspension Rocky Mountain Element Race, with the steeringbar very low. Low bar made it fast on gravel. I sometimes do some gravelriding on a Cannondale full suspension mtb with wide flatbar. Its fast on gravel, but I go on Tarmac half the distance, and on Tarmac I am a lot faster in the drops (or on a vey low crossbar). I think the OIZ dropbarbike is a good hybrid/compromize for going all places, including tarmac, gravel and singetrack and that its better than gravelbikes on gravel when the gravel is loose or rough. I guess its faster than flatbar mtb on Tarmac.

[@VeselenyiVlado]

I was / still thinking of doing this, for short corses doesnt make a difference but I get a wrist pain on long rides on my MTB which I dont get on my road bike, due to hand position an many more options on grips, also if you dont get trails as much on the 100km+ rides but mostly dirt roads it will be probably faster, so would make sence for me / most people i guess, of course not if you ride bike parks and too much tech stuff.

[@PatrickPecoraro]

I wish you guys would do 3 runs over 3 days and average the ride times.

[@danielsimmonds5162]

Good video, Not for me, for the simple reason that I want to sit up and see the world, not just the track in front of me, That's why I ride a MTB 👍🏻😁

[@mogwai888]

Why not use the hydro GRX top bar brake levers ? Save the drops for the gravel sections.

[@charlesstafford1564]

I think the drop bar Oiz looks hot! Would I want to ride drop bars on singletrack? Not so much. I have flat bars on my gravel bike (an old hardtail with gravel tires).

[@Bob_Shy_132]

Probably be a little rougher on the shoulders. In the trail stuff that is.

[@johnnigri7269]

Ride whatever makes you happy but nobody can rock Drops on a mountain bike like Tomac back in the day!

[@christianluff]

I’m just waiting for an MTB bar end revival.

[@Coastal_Cruzer]

Drop bar hardtail/rigid MTBs are great for flat offroad. Can't really speak for anything else though as I'm stuck in the Central Valley

[@anyssen]

You look faster in the down hill with the drop bar bike...

[@heywood165]

Okay, so a while back I said GMBN should try drop bars on a new style mtb similar to the Evil Chamois Hagar, but this wasn’t what I was thinking of. I actually meant something long and super slack, something with a 63 degree head angle and 77 degree seat angle. I was expecting a crazy looking hardtail not an xc full suspension with drop bars.

[@Jarymut]

Can you imagine building bike for particular race or series, winning it and people commenting that they do not like this winning bike? Drop bars are as bad as downhill bikes - ugly machines for one thing, not for daily use? 😅

[@DuskPatrol]

No you weren't. Keegan Swenson is just that fucking sick. Carry on.

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

Inverted bar ends on flatbars coming back to trend? 1990's NYC courrier vibes

[@uldi1s]

I can see why the drop bars worked on that specific race: it was a gravel race, which is basically a road race without the asphalt! Who are we kidding? really not MTB at all 🙄

[@petrokemikal]

My guess is there is nothing wrong with them, but marketing is a helluva drug..

[@justingagnon668]

what lever/caliper combo you running? Flat mount grx with post adapter? or are the grx levers compatible with slx/xt/xtr line?

[@sandbugg2977]

Dont know why but there being a measurement called Dropflair made me laugh

[@OffroadAlwaysBetter]

The world is getting it 😊

[@gregstevens2917]

Good one, I don't get how they can give an advantage for 99.999% of riders out there.

[@The_Tree_]

somewhere Dylan johnson is watching this and the bonk bros are out there talking about it on the podcast because they did it before Keegan.

[@lunasmokezim1718]

Been riding like this for 5 years at least.

[@Diabetykwruchu]

I think you need to be definately technically skilled to conquer some of the trails using drop bars even on MTB... Some riders including me shouldn't even give a try to do it 😁 Regards to all fearless people ✌️

[@bluemootang3239]

Idk man when im flying down technical stuff on a drop bar i definitely feel the lower center of gravity doing stuff when im flying

[@sim999]

XC with dropbars awesome - just geometry needs to be adopted to dropbar

[@SergioCristancho]

GGBN ... Comming soon 🔜 ... But not expecting presenters from GMBN to cross over... 😅

[@philipholenstein5685]

Use SRAM and the swapping around of parts would be far easier. No cable and all cross compatible.

[@jonoharper4729]

Exactly right.....but most the Shimano peeps don't want to hear it.

[@markianross]

Apart from the brakes

[@petrd1104]

I have one. It's not for shredding downhills. But for cross-country distance riding it's the best bike you can have IMHO. Btw Lael Willcox holds the woman's record on Tour Divide with dropbars MTB. And 2024 winner (women category) as well. If someone makes 4400 km in 15 or 16 days, through Rocky mountains... It can't be that bad, or?

[@chrisjong8412]

Next time let a pro wrap the bartape, it hurts to see it like this 😮

[@dangolfishin]

Don't get the point of a drop bar for mtb. The advantage is aerodynamics. The disadvantages are less stable, less comfortable, less responsive, etc... A bit less wind resistance is hardly beneficial for mtb

[@whssy]

Point would be the different ride positions that might be attractive for some kinds of longer ride. Obviously not relevant on this course or any trail centre type riding - but for all-day rides on mixed terrain, it would be worth considering - but then a gravel bike might be a better option for that anyway.

[@talos935]

The biggest downside for myself with the drop bar MTB conversion is that GRX is road compatible so most MTB components are kinda moot. The dropper compatible LH leaver is cool, but at $200+ for a singular leaver it's a bit of a joke and the compatibility of dropper posts is limited.

[@fpeter01]

Every hardtail bike on the market is basically a gravel bike with wide tires. Sooner or later they will die/fade out like 27,5" or plus tires.