[Werewolf: The Apocalypse] The Get of Fenris

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

If you enjoy my game design thoughts or liked this video, please check out Curseborne on Kickstarter and sign up so you get notified when it goes live: www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/curseborne-tabletop-roleplaying-game 🐺🐺🐺

[@MaverickofThePeople]

Get of Fenris were always one of the most played clans as written. Players loved them. They needed no change and what they did to this tribe is shameful.

[@Gangrel442003]

Beyond shameful

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

I wouldn't call it shameful. It's one out of a wide selection of fictional tribes. It was a design decision, and I understand the desire. I just feel it could have been handled differently.

[@Brunavargen]

Definitely some interesting ideas in regards to one of if not my favourite tribe! The Get's path to redeption was something that really inspired me in older editions, so it made me quite despondent to see them completely ignore it in 5th. As someone from Scandinavia with an interest in the history and culture of my ancestors I have often tried to give more nuance to the Fenrir when I have felt that the books have been lacking. The idea that they are the warrior tribe amongst a warrior people, expected to be the first to go and the last to leave, makes them both great heroes and antagonists. Listening to your ideas made me think of the type of fatalism that define the old norse sagas. To remain stoic in the face of your inevitable doom. That sort of grim determination certainly feels like it could fit your description of the tribe! Loving the new videos, keep up the good work!

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

That's a fantastic way of putting it. Very good ideas!

[@viastephtop]

As a silver fang player, I can come up with a thought: Guilt. They've always been a bit akin to the get in the respect that glory and honor is a big deal to them, along with the need to hold onto what they've believed their entire lives: They were blessed and meant to rule, they were meant to always be the one in charge of a situation. It was ordained to them, blah blah...they have their reasons for thinking it, so what do you do when you lose the war you were created to basically fight and lead? What does that do to a person when they have to shoulder that level of shame and failure? Imagine a tribe that's already cursed with higher than normal instances of harano and, in many houses cases, a huge instance of low births and general mental decline/derangement, and a general feeling from the rest of the garou that you've fallen down on the job. And you got the shadow lords nipping at your heels. Guilt, gult over what your tribe is turning into, guilt over feeling like you failed your job as leaders, and so on. The rage of failure and guilt can lead to some amazing comebacks...or some pretty awful tumbles into darkness.

[@88Grabarz]

Cool idea. I might not get you correctly, or the iead of "Righteous Anger" for that matter but I'm tempted to show this as a Anger of leaders that was burdened with responsibility that did not ask for. The anger of stepping up to the biggest shoes for the betterment of people under your lead and protection. Only to have those people be ungreatful and for them to point out your every mistake (or previous mistakes of the ones that came before you). Righteous anger of duty? Or ambition? Does this have any sense?

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

What a splendid idea! Superb thinking!

[@viastephtop]

@@88Grabarz I think it makes perfect sense, and really, I don't find either idea to be mutually exclusive. Even in w20, the vibes of the silver fangs, if you read the tribe book anyway, is that there has been a bit of a division of mindsets within it, the people who think they need to go back to tradition, stick with how things were and are, and another that believes the only way they'll survive is to change and to allow new ideas and new blood into the fold. I can see one side taking one side of that coin and one side taking the other. The traditionalists who are weighed down by the guilt of their failures and those who want change and never asked for the burden of leadership in the first place and the resentment of having the failures of their ancestors on them as well. Or the general feelings of resentment of feeling like their best efforts are simply not enough. It's not a bad idea at all and has great merit!

[@viastephtop]

@@TheGentlemanGamer thank you, thank you...I just think the thing that made me fall in love with WOD anyway, and with the garou, was the complexities of the tribes. That yes, while you can see how and why they think the way they do, you can look from the outside at things and go "Man...if you all actually worked together, you probably could have won this thing if you hadn't done xyz." and I think the key to using their primordial rage/failings as a guiding point to how they evolve is to see what's great about them and then find the underside of that coin. Honestly...I'm tempted to kinda bring these ideas up to my friends, if you don't mind? I like the idea of this being a guiding principle in some of our games, since we kinda just do our own thing anyway and homebrew the crap out of it.

[@TurnerClassicNinja]

@@88Grabarz The righteous anger of obligation.

[@paladinebahamut]

Not only do the Fenrir have to fight battle after battle and war after war, they have to do it for the ungrateful, whether Garou or human or maybe even Gaia herself

[@yarothe_godslayer503]

Fenris player from when I was 16. Now I'm 33. The fenris inspired me to step into the ring many times. Boxing, last years barecknuckle and pancration. The Might is Right mentality is something that will always push against you even if you believe in it, damn, even more if you believe in it, because onyl believe that might makes right means that life itself is a constant battlefield to be better at best and dispotic at worst. I met and fought and laughed with many fighters. Not a single one wasn't imbued with anger. This leads, often to a more conservative mentality. Not necessary extreme, but almost always conservative. Why I'm saying this ? Because I think the Get were portrayed greatly. Maybe some stuff was poorly handled. But the Get righteous anger is perfectly portrayed both in their flaws as much as in their merits. I personally portray the Fenris in a conceptual way. They are a war cult. A kill-cult and a wolf cult. As any other handline tribe they indoctrinate. They raise young garou in order to kill the enemies of gaia and be ready to die. Can you imagine their mentality? I play werewolf first edition in a very street level style, and I also include Fenris far right npc. Is this supposed to be an excuse to play a neo nazi? FUCK no. I despise nazi. But involving those elements like in every other tribe, enrich the game with a unique take on realism and the price of consequences, consequences that in a rage filled warrior culture can lead obviously to disasters. The fact the fenris are heroes of their own stories and often villain in other's stories, allow you to remember that garou are often monsters to the eyes of others, but monsters with a history of anger, often abuse, traumas and a huge series of failure, everything on their shoulders. My fenris always strife with zeal, anger and disgust toward the world, for all of them, gangsters, bikers, backalley protectors, cults, its Us vs Their World. The Fenris is THE tribe of werewolves. Sorry for my english.

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

I appreciate the lengthy, well thought-out response! Have you checked out the Get of Lyka in Curseborne yet? www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/curseborne-tabletop-roleplaying-game

[@robmellesh1530]

Love it. I came up with a similar Get faction. The galliards noticed it first. The songs had changed. They began drawing parallels to the fall of the White Howlers. This group is slowly growing and referring to themselves as the Unbound. ( as in Fenris being bound.) The ideology of the Unbound is primalist, to return before the War of Wrath. "Ragnarok is ending, but we're still here. We are not casualties; we will not be corrupted. We are Get of Fenris, and will die preserving the remnants of Gaia. " Bluefang, Galliard of Fenris

[@hobobrett4564]

curseborne didn't kill my ear this time, thanks buddy!

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

The Accursed are using a new sound effect, it seems!😊

[@Eisenfurst42]

Great stream. I could see the Glass Walkers (who have turned in to my favorites within the last few months after sitting on the border with the Bonegnawers for awhile) as the righteous anger of progress or modernity. For all of the negatives of modernity, life is so much better for so many more people and yet they are part of a society that in many cases has much of its thinking rooted in ancient modes of belief and thought. You think there are demonstrably better ways of approaching things but most of your fellow Garou distrust you for even suggesting it. This is excellently summarized in the W20 Glasswalker line about the Silver Fangs "Are we seriously still pretending that a hereditary monarchy has some sort of intrinsically superior value?"

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

Great thinking! Excellent ideas.

[@TurnerClassicNinja]

I saw this, and my first reaction was "We are the warriors of Gaea. We are made for battle. We are made to take the injuries of war, to body, to mind, to spirit. Nature? Humanity? The other Fera? They are not made for this. That is why we exist. That is our duty and our purpose. To fight so that others do not have to. And those that are forced to wage war, through desperation, coercion, or trickery? We will honor the fallen, and we will care for the survivors. Even and especially when their own will not."

[@FatrickAteman]

The Glass Walkers represent the righteous anger towards bad internet connections

[@FatrickAteman]

On a more serious note, I see them representing the "Righteous Anger of Progressivism." They have all these ideas for how to make the world better and their fight more effective, but they're ignored constantly by people yearning for a past they can never go back to.

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

@@FatrickAteman That's a good take!

[@RantTheRetort]

Love Get of Fenris.

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

@@RantTheRetort They're a very popular tribe!

[@RantTheRetort]

​​@@TheGentlemanGameryup, fighting as a werewolf is always fun. I tend to think of them as the Spartans of Werewolf.

[@GothiGrimwulff]

​@@RantTheRetortSpartans were actually a highly militarized society with very little freedom and a slave economy. They kinda suck outside of any context unrelated to war. 300 set a false precedent lol

[@7HeavySteel]

As a Salacious Investor I am certainly looking forward to Curseborne.

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

Well there's a place for Salacious Investors and Crumbs.

[@krispalermo8133]

What always got me about the Fenris, Silver Sables, and Shadow Lords is the Cold War which wasn't really cover in the books during the 1990's. How they hid, bribe, tie up loose ends with the USSR political officers. Kinfolk was busy. Breeds: humans/Lupus, wolf or dog if Bone Gnarlers . Puppy mill/farm, each female rolls 1d10 on how many pups per litter, and 1d10 for each pup chances of turn into a werewolf or end up as kinfolk. 1's are treated as still births. Along with nine more sentences outcomes. My past two gaming shops did 1 hundred notebook paper sheets rolling d10 to get the bell curve average for werewolves in a given population aera. It was a mini game, no one could come up with an agreed upon game/plot. But we really wanted to roll some dice. So we rolled for puppy litter outcomes. How many litters over the years and the 3 to 4 years wait till the dog is ready to start carrying. Then we looked up the number of dogs hit by cars in the Usa on average. Or jump out of a second story window chasing a ball. Silent Striders base off of the African jackal, who human population culture is known to frown on very heavy on adultery or sleeping around. Now as for the current estimate African jackal population over the past twenty years or so. Base on their reproduction it will only take a few centuries for Every jackal to carry werewolf transformation gene.

[@ShieldWife]

I really like this take on the Get of Fenris. I always thought that it was a good thing, from a game perspective, that there was an fascistic element to the GoF. Just as every Tribe had their own extremists, their quirks, their flaws, their own biases and bigotries. That added character to the game and I think WW has lost something in eliminating the GoF in all of their merits and flaws.

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

Thank you for the kind words! And I agree!

[@NONO3441]

I don't think you have to change much to use the righteous anger idea you can use as a baseline for your tenants mechanically more rage, and this gives more flavor and distinction between the tribes, thank you Mr Dawkins for this gives me a ideas P.S love the idea of turning to get a fenris into the tribe of veterans /people devastated by war/conflict gives a really nice spin to it

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

Thank you for the kind words! Please check out Curseborne!

[@Dermeister009]

making them none playable was a mistake IMO.

[@trevor7861]

I respectfully disagree. The Get always seemed to be on the edge of going overboard IMO

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

I think so too, given their historic popularity.

[@Dermeister009]

@@TheGentlemanGamer Same I don't know whats so problematic with them? Viking warriors were super cool when i was lil. I don't understand the coments about them being a problem. In the lore it mentions some of the bad Get worked for the nazis but thats not all of them and those werewolves are dead by now. By removing them they remove my favourite bad ass werewolves that would let themsevles eaten alive just to tare the big monster from the inside out as a last FU. That's so cool.

[@Accolonian]

Wait... You can play characters with opinions other than your own in a roleplaying game? Mind blown! :)

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

Only if you're not a dick about it.

[@mitchistophelesr6756]

The Get of Fenris are my favorite tribe in Apocalypse but one thing I never knew was what the term "Get of" meant. Now that it's being used in Curseborne as well I have to ask what "Get of" means in regard to Get of Fenris and Get of Lyca. I did try to google this but couldn't find anything about it. I do love you're take on the Get of Fenris, as much as I do like the tribe, I never really wanted to play a might makes right character or a confrontational "bully" as I have heard some people playing them as such, challenging for leadership all the time and just causing problems using the "just playing my character" line. I want to play a strong warrior/defender character who can protect their friends and loved ones because in the real world I'm not that strong or courageous. Anyway, love the take and I am looking forward to Curseborne where I will absolutely be making a Get of Lyca.

[@krissaunders6418]

Get has an older meaning of child when talking about animals. So the Get of Fenris is the Child/Children of Fenris.

[@mitchistophelesr6756]

@@krissaunders6418 ah, Thank you :)

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

What the other guy said! And yes, I've no doubt you'll like the Get of Lyka. They have a fire too them I enjoy.

[@yogsothoth7594]

It does strike me that Fenris as a warrior cult you could play around a lot with honour and revenge as themes. At times this can be played for the cool and epic side of things but the honourable warrior can also be a deeply tragic figure, caught up in their need to satisfy their revenge and defend their honour such that the webs of their perceived obligations and self image slowly leave themselves eventually cornered in a situation where they must either betray all that they believed themselves to be or waste their lives on some impossible last stand because their honour demands they fight.

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

Exactly my thoughts.

[@woogieboogie547]

glad you make video about werewolf, your pentex guide to tribes were my very frist contact with WOD, keep doing amazing job mate!

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

I've not rewatched them, but I think those videos were pretty good!

[@HorizonSilver]

Interesting take! For me I think it’s a great shame that the tribe’s write-ups barely used the story of Fenrir’s binding. It’s just there to explain why the Get hate the Methuselah Odin. I would have magnified this aspect by having the Get of Fenris being the most zealous in terms of freeing people, whether it’s from slavery, poverty, or abuse. Even if some of the other tribes have these themes, as you said there is some overlap between tribe themes so I do not think this is out of the question. Even though I have all but turned my back on Apocalypse and prefer Forsaken (and I’m very interested in Curseborne’s Get of Lyka) this is what I personally would do. Though I know it might not work for everyone. As for the Get of Lyka I also see some Storm Lord influence from Forsaken thanks to them being associated with storms and thunder! Was that intentional?

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

It wasn't an intentional link, no! I just see the Primal as being more than just animalistic; they're primal, untamed nature as well. Each one has a different elemental feel.

[@MatthewJBarnetteOO7]

Will you be doing a Gentleman's Guide to the Curseborne once it drops? Feels very much like a spiritual successor to World of Darkness.

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

I can well imagine I will, yes!

[@MatthewJBarnetteOO7]

@@TheGentlemanGamer Wonderful news. I've been somewhat burnt out by the old World of Darkness of late, and with White Wolf gone and Bloodlines 2 showing little promise, it seems the IP has run its course. Some new blood in the same vein would do us some good.

[@KommSusserTod]

I love this idea for the Get! And for the theme of a righteous fury behind each and every tribe. I'm totally going to incorporate that into my game setting (playing old school/W20). Just backed Curseborne! ...and liked & subscribed. lol

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

Thank you very much! Have you checked out Curseborne yet, if you like this style of thinking?

[@KommSusserTod]

@@TheGentlemanGamer - Yup! Backed it on kickstarter and have been going down the rabbit hole of watching your videos/reading forums about it. :)

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

@@KommSusserTod Superstar!

[@thiagohayashi9936]

Silent Striders as a tribe of refugees. I sense gold in there, GG.

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

That's exactly what they are, driven out of Egypt.

[@thiagohayashi9936]

@@TheGentlemanGamer I'm not very knowledgeable about WTA in general, but I like the RPG. I knew they come from Egypt, but besides having gifts that turn them into "ninja werewolves", I don't know much. Cool to know they are actual refugees, and, resounding with W5 spirit, they can be refugees from anywhere. That's really cool.

[@robmellesh1530]

​@@thiagohayashi9936 I have them out chasing umbral comets with their mind.

[@mattp6326]

I will say: While I think the Get got done dirty, I do think there is an amazing little piece of meta commentary going on with the Cult that I haven't heard enough folks talk about. I have been in a lot of Apocalypse games over both tabletop and LARP spaces. And something that seemed almost inevitable was the Werewolf Paladin. See, once someone gets Sense Wyrm, they treat it like Sense Evil in D&D. This becomes especially problematic if you have Vampire players at the table, who look at the statement "A vampire with humanity 6 or lower pings as Wyrm" and extrapolates "well than low humanity humans should too!", and thus characters who are supposed to be the moral paragons of the pack become almost sociopathic in their hunt to "root out the Wyrm", and no one is safe from their fury. The fact that it was written into the new edition what a huge danger that is...I doff my hat to them. I mean, it seems pretty clear that was probably unintentional., since that level of competence seems missing from the bulk of 5e's writing across the line. I would have made a new BSD style enemy fill the interesting slot rather than have one of the existing tribes fall, for all the reasons you mention.

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

@@mattp6326 You are completely correct. It's something sadly a lot of the edgier players failed to pick up on.

[@AndyAttrition]

I dont think that GoF where unplayable in earlier editions. Yes, group compostition can be work intense but the extreme view of most tribes is what makes this Setting what it is.

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

I don't think they were at all unplayable. They were one of the most popular tribes.

[@christopherjohnromano3455]

I forget the name Get of Fenris camp Tribal leaders are actually the Ragabash. Remove & alter their pictogram Intolerance:Bullies,racists,etc One of my favorite G.F. Floki,homid,Ragabash Used his mentality & charima to galvanize the others to act.

[@christopherjohnromano3455]

Through trickery

[@RuneKnight3]

Rather than playing W5 and dealing with either the inadequacies of that edition of game or the "potential right wing" aspects of the Get of Fenris, one could play Werewolf: The Forsaken. The Lodge of Garm is right there and infinitely better written.

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

I do love Werewolf: The Forsaken, and I'm still very happy with my work on Shunned by the Moon.

[@RuneKnight3]

@@TheGentlemanGamer I'm currently running a chronicle where a megacorp front for RD-13 exploring how to transform supernatural energy from one state (essence to vitae and back again for instance) into another has made an alliance with the Merovech, but plans to betray it by setting one host against another in the form of an Azlu Hag, and only the Lodge of Crows infiltrators can stop them by descending on the winner. Too bad the Ivory Claws are waiting in the wings to steal a defeat from the jaws of Forsaken victory. Y'know, just a normal day in the World of Darkness.

[@HorizonSilver]

Exactly!

[@LongfusedbombasticBarbarian]

Love me some Get absolutely my favorite tribe and simplifying them as ultra right-wing Is terribly reductive I probably won't touch fifth edition but it's good to get some catharsis and Redemption?

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

Sure! This content isn't specifically for 5e, of course. I use it for any Werewolf edition.

[@spqr194]

I love it....thanks for another video

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

Thank you for watching it!

[@derkrischa3720]

So Silver Fangs have the Rightouse Anger of the rightfull king? Having a plan and wanting the good of all, but not getting it done because of people not following said plan? Could also work with their creeping madness, as kind of a "term limit" to prevent a good king to become first a bad king and then a tyrant? Or maybe even just Rightouse Anger of Order, even though that sounds too much like DnD. Anyways I really like this angle of portraying all ribes with this additional/general flavoring!

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

Hmm, I'll have to think on that one!

[@derkrischa3720]

@@TheGentlemanGamer It works a bit better if you think also about natural order.

[@oboroth51]

"the negative baggage" was the only cool thing about them

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

I disagree!

[@lichlord267]

Your description kind of makes me think of 40k commissars, but with all the over the top elements removed. Their job is to maintain morale and discipline within the ranks. On a good day, its hyping up the men with a speech and some extra alchohol ration. On a bad day, its hunting down deserters and having to execute them because they broke. You know why they broke, you understand, you might not even blame them for doing it. But you cant risk the rest breaking, examples have to be made (or maybe thats just what your telling yourself). There are alot of bad day, The get have to wield a heavy hammer, and i doubt most of them sleep well for it.

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

That's an excellent comparison!

[@MrZippidydoodahh]

Man. Hanging out in activist online spaces makes me think you can find rightous fury of any flavor. Just not all are as compelling. Heck, even the Fianna could be very upset about rudeness, fractured communities and moving into more isolated living. Is that on the same level as poverty? Objectively, probably not. Probably not that big of a problem. But, subjectively, maybe

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

I suppose it depends on what pricks your temper.

[@GothiGrimwulff]

As a Norse Pagan I hate the new depiction of the Get. They essentially took the stereotypes of Vikings (one job is not an entire culture) and then decided to go with the other stereotype, Facist. One of the things I personally do is fight against facism. I make content to teach inclusivity and dissuade newbie Heathens from Folkism. Folkism being the idea that blood quantums are necessary to be Heathen (Norse/Germanic Pagan). Which is bs that comes from 1940s Germany, and was never part of any pre-Christian society. Had the creators of W5 simply come to one of us elder Heathens, we could have given nuance to the Get instead of making them an offensive stereotype. The history of Ulfhethnar, for example, would be perfect for building a nuanced Get of Fenris.

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

It's a sentiment shared widely, it seems!

[@jaykaye594]

What of the Fiana?

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

@@jaykaye594 Nobody has picked up a copy of The World Below and requested a video about the Fianna!

[@jaykaye594]

@@TheGentlemanGamer Typical of the English to beholding to the Irish. So tell me this Trevelyan, if I buy the book would I need the video?

[@Bane422]

🇺🇸👊

[@TheGentlemanGamer]

Hello America.