What a Tunnel Should Do: The Exclusive Bus Lane, Lincoln Tunnel, and the Port Authority Bus Terminal

'Defeating traffic is "the ultimate boss battle," claims the current wealthiest person in the world. It's a pretty debatable claim, but traffic congestion and delay is definitely a nemesis for people who live in many areas of New Jersey and have to contend with New York traffic every day to get to work. If you live and work near commuter train stations, PATH stations, or ferry terminals, you are probably managing to win the boss battle already (no Tesla tunnel required!).
But if you live in other outlying areas on the New Jersey side of one of the world's busiest cities, you don't have convenient train service. What you DO have, though, is access to what is probably the world's most effective peak hour bus system. In the weekday AM peak hours, buses from all over northern New Jersey converge on the Exclusive Bus Lane (XBL), which runs in a contraflow lane on Route 495, through the Lincoln Tunnel, and directly into the Port Authority Bus Terminal.
In this video we'll look at the history of the Port Authority Midtown Bus Terminal, the implementation of the XBL, and future plans for adding new capacity to bus terminal. Along the way we'll talk about the traffic dynamics of tunnels and portals, the person-throughput value of transit lanes, and the classism of how our nation views bus riders.
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Special thanks to KZbin channel Timosha21 for use of the XBL video!
Check out the channel: / timosha21
Original XBL video here: • A Ride on the The Linc...
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/ citynerd
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Twitter: @nerd4cities
Instagram: @nerd4cities
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Other CityNerd Videos referenced:
Urbanist Ballparks: • What Is Urbanism? 2022...
Best Ferry Systems: • Transit On the Water: ...
Busiest Bridges and Tunnels: • Busiest Bridges and Tu...
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Resources:
Mode Capacity Graphic By Transformative Urban Mobility Initiative (TUMI) - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, commons.wikime...
FTA and PANYNJ Bus Terminal Replacement - Final Scoping Report - Appendix A (PDF, 9.5 MB): www.panynj.gov...
FTA and PANYNJ Bus Terminal Replacement - Final NEPA Scoping Information Packet, January 20, 2022 (PDF, 1.6 MB): www.panynj.gov...
Trans Hudson Commuting Capacity Study Appendices: www.panynj.gov...
Trans Hudson Commuting Capacity Study Summary Report: www.panynj.gov...
Port Authority Terminals: www.panynj.gov...
Port Authority history: www.panynj.gov...
NJ Transit bus schedules: www.njtransit....
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Image Credits:
Penn Station Greyhound Terminal By Berenice Abbott - Flickr: Greyhound Bus Terminal, 33rd and 34th Streets between Sevent... New York Public Library, Public Domain, commons.wikime...
NY gridlock video Video by Life-Of-Vids from Pixabay
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Music:
CityNerd background: Caipirinha in Hawaii by Carmen María and Edu Espinal (KZbin music library)
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Contact: [e-mail]

[@andrepoiy1199]

When I went to NYC for the first time and I had exited that tunnel, there was literally a traffic jam in the XBL lane. I was amazed that there were just so many buses that the bus lane had its own traffic jam.

[@CityNerd]

Yeah, it's funny to think that the NJT bus schedules are maxed out. Like they literally have to prioritize how to allocate buses from all their service areas in the peak 8am hour, and then try to backfill the shoulder hours. It's nuts.

[@zeroone8800]

There is definitely demand for greater trans-Hudson capacity. The fact that the slowest and most expensive method (ferries) are on the rise is a sign that there is significant demand especially to Midtown. The problem is capacity is capped without a rebuild and expansion of either Penn Station or the Port Authority or ideally both. New Jersey is where most of the new housing in the area is being built, so demand is increasing.

[@katjerouac]

@@zeroone8800 the problem is we havent built more tunnels and bridges in the last 100 years

[@zeroone8800]

@@katjerouac The George Washington Bridge was expanded 59 years ago. The Tappan Zee Bridge was rebuilt with additional capacity 4 years ago. The tunnels are not the choke point. The New York terminals are. They are supposed to start building new tunnels for Amtrak/NJT, but they will only increase reliability, not capacity, without Penn Station improvements.

[@zorkmid1083]

@@zeroone8800 I think the new tunnels can increase capacity marginally, if nobody minds having trains going back out to NJ for storage. Currently, I believe NJT & Amtrak trains have stuff themselves into 1 East River tunnel for storage in Queens.

[@harktischris]

I am just absolutely floored by the throughput and capacity from "just" a bus lane. I'm not even sure trains could replace it, since it sounds like these are a lot of different bus routes with a large geographic catchment. Mad props to NJ/NYC for pulling this off. They should invest in it more, probably extremely great ROI for the regional economy.

[@Novers]

I always appreciate you calling at stuff that's classist when you talk about stuff like the bus terminal

[@timosha21]

Thanks! Timosha - is Timothy in Russian :D and the pronunciation was spot on!

[@NotDanValentine]

As a New Jerseyan I've been on this route hundreds of times. Cool to seeya cover it.

[@Leenapanther]

Are these buses old do they just like it. I mean they still have stairs to get in...

[@HallsofAsgard96]

@@Leenapanther They are coach buses which are normally more comfortable for commuters. Think padded seats and storage for luggage.

[@Free-g8r]

I've taken the Greyhound into the port authority a few times and I always thought it was an underappreciated facility. It feels dilapidated but actually does its job pretty well.

[@natsfan100]

Growing up the coolest part to me was always how the were gates for the buses like an airport.

[@stickynorth]

I hear ya! Just like the buses they serve, they are generally low-rent and grubby but do the job well... Of course trains are better in every way but maybe mobility but I still have fond memories of riding the inter-city Greyhound here in Alberta to visit family... Even if service/ridership ended rather abruptly across most of the nation following that beheading/cannibal incident outside Winnipeg...

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@natsfan100 when I visited a bunch of people, that’s how I arrived in New York from Boston, and it was quite an experience going down the busy streets and then suddenly into a long tunnel and then into a huuuuuge bus station

[@iamweave]

The advantage of running busses through that tunnel is they can fan out and go into different directions to their destinations whereas a train would require a lot of the riders to transfer to a local bus at some point. So that's a potential three seat ride -- one on the subway in Manhattan, another to get through the tunnel, then yet another for a bus on the other end.

[@markovermeer1394]

The disadvantage of the bus are: higher cost in maintenance and driver salaries. 40 busses per hour carry max 40x50=2000 passengers, which would fit easily in two metro trains. Two trains per hour is nothing. With a metro or train line running every 5 minutes, you do not really have to wait in town. A large bus terminal outside the center is much easier and cheaper to operate.

[@yatil]

@@markovermeer1394 I was thinking the same thing: Built a bus terminal or two outside the city and then have a high-speed, high-frequency, non-stop pendulum service into the center from there. Of course, Mr. CityNerd points out rightly that new infrastructure is always hard to build. But you could probably sell/lease the land for a lot if you put an underground train station on it.

[@HesJustSteven]

But that one seat ride advantage goes out the window when you’re stuck in traffic, when a train has a better chance of completely bypassing it and can get you to that interchange point faster. Sure you make a transfer, but your commuter time is way lower.

[@Joesolo13]

@@HesJustSteven exactly If anything what's needed is a acceptance that regional transit is needed. The 7 train to Secaucus proposal, for example. Maybe extend the yellow path line there while they're at it. Do that and add a bus terminal there and you've got a 2 seat ride to a lot of new York, and pretty painless 3 seat transfers.

[@dlazo32696]

@@Joesolo13 Definitely agree with you. I was bummed when I heard the 7 going into NJ wasn’t going to happen anytime soon(or at all). Everything needs to be much more connected on a regional level.

[@justinoboyle5767]

Great video! I never quite appreciated how unique it was until your video about tunnels. (also, thanks for the shoutout!)

[@CityNerd]

I couldn't do it without you

[@Big.hossss]

Wow! When I took my first trip to New York a few months ago, I stayed a block away and saw the building every time I left the hotel. I never knew what it was but finding out it's the busiest bus terminal in the world is crazy to think about

[@CityNerd]

Had no idea until I started researching it. All the action is at the "back" of the terminal, sort of hidden from view.

[@finnrummygaming]

This is why the George Washington bus terminal in uptown Manhattan was built; to get rid of some of the Port Authority demand, especially for limited intercity bus services.

[@trainluvr]

The GWB terminal deserved a mention in the video, though its use has declined dramatically since opening. Short video on my channel if you want to see how it looked in the 90s.

[@VinayPai]

I've lived in Manhattan for 15 years and this is the first time I've heard of the George Washington Bus terminal. It's amazing how much infrastructure there is to move people around on this tiny island.

[@dannybau]

I live in a part of Bergen County, NJ where I have access to take multiple bus routes and a train to NYC. One bus goes to the GWB Terminal (take A, C, E trains or M4 bus to everywhere), another goes to the PABT with local and express service, and a NJT Transit train. I did a race with my friend to get to PABT by bus via direct to PABT or GWB and the Subway (178th St to 42 St). I was coming from a town 15 minutes farther away but the advantage of GWB busses is many of them avoid local roads leading to the Lincoln Tunnel. If you get an A Express, it is 7 stops away since it skips between stops 125th to 59th St. If I didn't get lost navigating the new renovated GWB Terminal, I would have gotten there faster.

[@MrSloika]

@@dannybau Right. I live in Paramus. I'll hop on the 171 NJT bus which takes a straight shot down Rt4 to the bridge. From there I go to the basement of the bus terminal where there is a pedestrian tunnel that connects to the 175th St subway station (A Train only) I get on the A and alight at 42nd. This is almost always faster than going directly to 42nd St from Paramus.

[@BRadensky]

They did an excellent job with the renovation of that terminal too. It would get a lot more use if there was dedicated bus lanes on the GWB (which is sorely needed)

[@icedragon769]

I commuted by the 123 from Union City into Port Authority for two years. It was mostly basically fine, but late-nights got weird because they changed the gates, and occasionally the tunnel plugged up for some reason or the other and you randomly have a nightmare commute. Also, I think this video would've been served with a look at NJ's unique geography, which rules out trains as an option for Hudson and Bergen counties because of the enormous cliff that bisects its cities. The extreme geography of the Gold Coast makes trains and even bicycles impractical, it's a region that's uniquely well suited to bus transport.

[@zeroone8800]

I disagree Hudson County used to have many more train stations and local streetcars. The railroads and later NJT removed almost all inner-suburb stations except for Hoboken and transfer stations from the 1960s through to the closing of the old Boonton line with the opening of the Montclair connection. Kearny has some of the most dense passenger rail systems in the world, but no longer has any stations. The current NJT rail system was designed to avoid the minority areas.

[@RobertWilke]

@@zeroone8800 Yes I concur, there was a line that followed RT 1&9 from Jersey city up through Teaneck. Currently there's a rail transfer site there in North Bergen. There were plans to revitalize it again and use it as an extension of the light rail system that currently terminates at 50th and Tonnelle Ave (1&9). Also in Upper Hudson County there was an above ground Trolley service that ran from Union City through West New York, Guttenberg and North Bergen Turning around at the border of Hudson and Bergen Counties at the Park. It's not for lack of Demand, You have small Gitny Busses that take people from there either to the GWB or the Port Authority (NYC and JC). They BIGGEST problem really is the congestion. Too many people and Too many cars. The main business road through this are is called Bergenline Avenue. For the most part its a 2 lane road through 3 of the town (NB,Gutenberg and WNY). When it reaches Union City it shrinks down to a one lane chokepoint of a road. There will be days on a regular basis where it's bumper to bumper as far as the eye can see with traffic. If ever an area could use an actual subway this would be it. Now finding the funds and the willingness to do it. That's a whole other story.

[@qjtvaddict]

If NJT added an infill station at Lincoln harbor the 123 would no longer need to exist. And many 150 series buses won’t be needed.

[@zeroone8800]

@@qjtvaddictInfill on what? There is already a light rail station there. Do you think a station on the Northeast Corridor is possible there? It isn't. The tunnel is too steep and the ground too wet.

[@cypher50]

I'm tearing up because of this video: my father was a bus driver for Shortline Bus Company out of Mahwah, NJ when I was growing up. He would take my older brother and I on his runs from Middletown or Monroe, NY to the "Port Authority" in midtown. I remember the red brick inside, getting bagels on his short break in the morning, always wondering about that midpoint in the Lincoln Tunnel between NY and NJ. My dad passed away on the job in 1997 and I only rode that ride from upstate NY to the bus terminal a few more times before moving south. It might be just a bus terminal but I miss it.

[@CityNerd]

Thanks for sharing -- really puts some humanity to all the numbers I was looking at. The Lincoln Tunnel-Port Authority is such an important connection for so many people, and it's great to hear from someone who really lived it.

[@charleskra]

I've taken Greyhound busses from Mt Laurel, NJ into the Port Authority many times. It's quick, easy, and relatively cheap. You are right that there is a bias against it. People that don't utilize it have the impression that it must be the dregs of the earth that do. However, I have shared the bus with fashion models, corporate execs, construction workers, students, and day-tripping tourists. The efficiency is amazing and I have a bit of reverse snobbery towards anyone stupid enough to drive into the city, fight traffic, pay the tolls, and pay a small fortune to park.

[@CityNerd]

Great comment, appreciate it!

[@pickled51]

In the late 1950's and early 1960's, prior to getting a driver's license, a bus into the Port Authority from NJ was the best system for my friends and I to reach Manhattan. We just happened to be located at the end of several local bus routes from other parts of New Jersey which meant we had express service into Manhattan. Faster than the train for which a station was a long distance away from home. In the late 1960's we moved and now a train station was closer to home than the bus. When younger, I was always impressed by the Port Authority terminal as I had no experience with NY Penn Station. But when I converted to using the train, I saw the big difference between PABT vs. Penn Station (even though this was after the real Penn Station replaced by the station under Madison Square Garden). I am still surprised that the AM express bus lane is still be using today along 495 into the Lincoln Tunnel.

[@Joesolo13]

My town is on the coast line but also has buses to the port authority, its kind of funny how random the preference is between people. Really shows how both work well

[@r.d.9399]

This is your best video yet. Most people have no idea how serious traffic and public transportation are in New York City.

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

CityNerd: The Port Authority Bus Terminal, it's not only the nation's largest bus terminal Me: It's also the worst- CityNerd: It's the world's busiest Me: ...well I guess that too I mean the bus terminal got its own episode of Everybody Hates Chris and a John Oliver segment...that says a lot

[@CityNerd]

I know! I had to address the reputation.

[@bellairefondren7389]

It shows that New York is the setting for a lot of TV shows and writers know about people hating on the Port Authority.

[@zorkmid1083]

@@CityNerd Among New Yorkers, it still has a bit of that extremely seedy reputation when prostitution and drug use was rife. Runaways who came through there were frequently caught up in the dark side. That's the reason why Covenant House(?) is located nearby. PABT was cleaned up to pretty much what see now in the late '80s to '90s.

[@DMCollmer]

The only time I’d used the PABT was in the late 70’s when visiting a friend who lived in Manhattan. I parked at Newark airport and took the bus into Manhattan and was met outside by a mentally disturbed woman screaming at random people. That is the image that stays in my mind. The next time I visited him before he moved away from NY, I flew into LaGuardia in the early eighties. NY transportation termini was at its nadir during that era.

[@chrispontani6059]

Port Authority is one of those underrated infrastructure/transportation geek facilities. I only took Greyhound and Peter Pan to Boston, and that was in the basement…easy connection to the subway, one stop to Penn Station to the LIRR. But buses aren’t sexy, so we all cry about the knocked down original Penn Station. Because of geography and existing infrastructure, there are many places in North Jersey where you can walk to your street corner and hop on a bus that takes you to Midtown. The geography east of the Hudson funnels people onto the rail lines, where Jersey is a vast expanse. Instead of converting the XBL to rail, what Jersey needs to do is look into building commuter rail lines where they currently aren’t, like say Route 9 in Middlesex County. Bring back the Amboy Secondary, and/or build the Middlesex/Ocean/Monmouth rail line they’ve been taking about for decades now.

[@jackgibbons6013]

The productivity and value produced by that lane and building is just astounding. An absolutely massive amount of trips catered for.

[@rnunez6398]

Understandable that you didn't cover it since your focus was on the XBL in the morning but the lack of it in the evening rush out of the city results in other issues. For evening rush hour the Lincoln Tunnel operates 4 lanes out of NY and only 2 lanes in. Due to lack of storage in NYC, buses have to travel in from NJ to pick up commuters. It doesn't take much for them to be delayed in the tunnel getting there. Then the PABT becomes extremely crowded with commuters standing on the escalators from the platform levels (3rd & 4th floors) to the gates on the 2nd floor.

[@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un]

New York: Have fun in NJ, no toll from us! People: Sweet! Meanwhile NJ: *You can check-out any time you like, but you can never leave!*

[@fszocelotl]

That's rather in Todos Santos, Baja California Sur, but ¿who's checking that?

[@CityNerd]

@@fszocelotl Another Eagles lawsuit down in flames

[@justshady]

You know it's the opposite? NJ doesn't collect any tools from those tunnels.

[@jeromemckenna7102]

I commuted to NYC from Montclair, NJ from 1969- 1977, starting just before the bus lane was opened up. No it wasn't the ideal solution, but it worked. I could have taken a train but the train stopped in Hoboken in that era, so all commutes were a bit longer. Today I might take a train but at that time when I came home from NYC in evening hours the trip took about 25 minutes. (During rush hour it took about 45 minutes.)

[@zeroone8800]

As someone who lost access to Hoboken because of the Montclair connection, I would greatly prefer a train still be available even to Hoboken.

[@jeromemckenna7102]

@@zeroone8800 I agree. On weekends I used to park in Hoboken and visit NYC. Parking in NJ is much much cheaper.

[@Fan652w]

Thank you, sir, (and Timosha21) for an extremely informative video. I am Roger Sexton, a British bus enthusiast, and I had heard of both the PATB and the XBL, but I had no idea how they functioned. One point I would stress is that the huge number of buses using XBL in the morning peak is only possible because there are no intermediate stops on the XBL. There is also the problem of the congestion at the entrance to the PATB. (Rather like the congestion experienced on the approach to a dead-end railway station.) (Your comment 'Lack of Respect' for bus passengers unfortunately is also applicable here in Britain.

[@allene2307]

"Goofy casserole" is one of the funniest things I've heard in quite some time!! Thank you!!

[@jdillon8360]

Excellent video. Thanks for highlighting the under-appreciated role that buses play in cities. Imagine if everyone of those passengers tried to make the trip in a private car. There we can see just how much space private cars eat up in cities. Sure, rail can move even more people, but buses are a massive step up in efficiency compared to cars. Great job.

[@RaghunandanReddyC]

Problem with replacing bus lane with railtracks is, these buses come from different directions. Railway line might not be effective. Even if it is for one route, it would compromise others that might just see handful of buses. So, build a new tunnel for trains if there is enough demand but continue bus lanes.

[@diezel5267]

Thanks for covering the NY/NJ area! Transportation in this regional is outmatched in rest of the country. I like to think of New Jersey's density and transit networks as more akin to Europe. The number certainly support that view.

[@benhanpeter4790]

40+ buses an hour is insane, in a good way. I'll have to check out the terminal the next time I'm in the city. Cities in CT could really take a hint with their bus frequencies. Norwalk's system is basically unusable.

[@Transporter_Not_Statham]

I can honestly tell you during the pandemic, to see an empty area void of buses at a time that you normally would see lots of them (parked or otherwise) at one time was very surreal.

[@gcvrsa]

Being as I was born in NYC, but my parents moved to South Jersey shortly after I was born, I have ridden buses and trains to and from Philadelphia, New Jersey, and NYC for much of my life to visit my family, particularly during the years when car ownership was not an option for me. In my college years, holidays meant getting from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia, Atlantic City, and New York City via some combination of Amtrak and Greyhound. Yes, the PA Bus Terminal is utilitarian, at best. And yes, on some level, we can say "these buses should really be trains". However, one must consider the fact that there are just two train tunnels underneath the Hudson River that carry all passenger and freight traffic, and a century of attempts to build more have been met with the fiercest opposition, most notoriously NJ Governor Chris Christie's outright criminal derailing of the ARC project. The fact that there is no room for more trains to enter Manhattan is the reason why there isn't greater buildout of commuter rail in North Jersey. So, while it would certainly be preferable for these buses to be replaced with trains, the fact of the matter is, that simply isn't possible, and the incredible level of demand for express bus commuter service for the NYC workforce servicing towns all over North Jersey is exactly why the buses actually carry more people than the trains.

[@robertkarp6336]

Fascinating video. No mention of the George Washington bus terminal also run by Port Authority with about 20k daily riders? It’s an interesting station with a long history. Thanks for giving busses their due.

[@CityNerd]

Really wanted to focus on the XBL for this, but George Washington Terminal and Lower Manhattan are super important too.

[@bryanCJC2105]

Buses have the ability to bring people in from hundreds of different locations in a one-seat ride, whereas rail requires all those people to get to it first. Rail can't be everywhere. Buses can. That said, buses do get a bad rap. Rail is sexy with fancy stations and slick rail cars (especially in Europe and Asia) and the bus is pretty homely looking. Latin American BRT systems really spruce up bus reputations with some of the same attributes as rail. I rode an express bus from Midtown to Bay Ridge in Brooklyn and it was a great ride and no transfers. It might've been as fast as the subway. I will usually prioritize fewer transfers over time unless the time is a huge advantage and by that I mean, 45 min or more advantageous.

[@CityNerd]

Yup, I'm with ya

[@thajemm4371]

Facts

[@AL5520]

A good and efficient system cannot "bring people in from hundreds of different locations in a one-seat ride". Buses are great and they have their place but they are not meant to bring large amount of passengers from one place to another. A good network must be built on changes but you can, and should, minimize those changes and spread the location of those changes. bringing hundred of thousands of people to one location is a bad idea and today the goal of both buses and trains is to create smaller changing points instead of one huge and problematic location. In Paris, the RER is a regional express network that instead of stopping in one central place crosses the city, like any other metro line, with many stops so people can get closer to their destination. It also serves as an urban city metro line. The same (although not on the same level) is true to the S-Bahn popular in Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and Denmark, Belgium or the Czech Republic and in the end of this month the first stages of the RER style Elizabeth Line (AKA Cross Rail) will open in London. Buses are great for short distance lines or to bring people from smaller, less dense, locations to a central transport hub that should rely on trains. One RER Double-decker train can carry about 2,600 people and the RER has a frequency of 3-5 minutes on peak time - no bus can compete with that. If you expect public transport to act like a private car it will never work.

[@bryanCJC2105]

@@AL5520 Buses can and do bring people from hundreds of locations in a one seat ride all of the time. That's exactly what NJ Transit buses do everyday and it's working well. I'm pretty sure all of those people using buses to get into Manhattan have the option of getting on a bus to a NJ Transit rail station but opt not to. I don't know if you caught it but the busiest NJ Transit express bus lines into Manhattan have frequencies of less than 2 minutes during peak hours 43 buses/hr. That's 36,000 people in the 8am hour alone. That is the equivalent of an entire RER Line at 4 min frequencies and 2600 people per train. Rail can be a great part of the solution but rail can never be the only solution to moving massive quantities of people. All of those people coming into Manhattan on NJ Transit buses could never be accommodated on rail lines that are already very crowded. Buses, especially express buses, must be integral components of a transportation system and frequently fill the gaps that even the most expansive rail system can't do as well as supplement the same services that rail systems do. You can't build a rail network to do ALL of the commuter work. Even Chicago has a network of express buses that closely parallel the L lines and they are packed all day long. I'm pretty sure there are tens of thousands of people commuting into Paris and London on buses from the suburbs that would overwhelm the existing rail networks. That single bus lane into Manhattan brings in more people than all NJ Transit rail lines do at a fraction of the cost of building it, most of who will transfer to NYC subways. That sounds pretty efficient to me.

[@Joesolo13]

Bit of a silly argument. Busses don't go everywhere, they go to the places with the largest collection of people Given we're not terribly nomadic, those tend to be fairly dense places Especially in new jersey, almost any reasonably sized city or town has rail at one point in the not too distant past. We've just subsidized the hell out of roads since then

[@bikenorthbergen]

Thanks for the North Bergen shout out! The lowest hanging fruit is making the Port Authority XBL 24/7. The amount of buses stuck in the same traffic as private vehicles on evenings and weekends is insane.

[@clnre]

Really interesting video, thank you for explaining the details of this unique bus priority route. I travelled from New York to Washington by Greyhound bus in 1984, via the Lincoln Tunnel. Despite working in transit in the UK, for a company which was to merge to become First Group, which later purchased Greyhound, I was completely unaware of this bus priority route before my visit. I was amazed to see so many buses using this excellent facility during the morning peak, as I had been led to believe that public transport was very much the poor relation of the car in the USA and that no such bus priority route could possibly exist there. I have worked on EU transport projects during my career and despite travelling extensively in Europe, I have never seen anything to rival the number of buses using this excellent New York public transport route.

[@qjtvaddict]

Europe has trains tho

[@BellaBellaElla]

Pizza joke was a low blow!! hahaha First of all, not really casserole, though casseroles are an awesome midwestern staple and should be respected! Second, there are two Chicago styles in the city, the other is a tavern... And three, I can only speak for myself but, second is nothing to be upset about :) but with the Wrigley vs. Fenway instance, it wasn't deserved. :) Keep up the great work!! :) :) (Saw cars in our bus only lanes in the loop today, that was very bothersome to say the least, yet topical!! lil :) )

[@notsavingpvtbrian]

As someone has a long history with this piece of infrastructure I had two thoughts. One is that I don't think the view of Port Authority is classist in the same way that busses in many places are. Like you said it's not pretty and it's a workhorse. The goal is to get through it as fast as possible, but at least for New Jersians its not viewed as a low class thing because busses are often the best way to get into the city. I've met managing directors of large banks who are easily making $400,000 on these busses. They're large comfortable coaches and are often the fastest way to get into the city. The second is that growing up I lived half a mile from a NJ transit train stop an a full mile from a bus stop. My dad still took the bus in every day because it was faster. It's not uncommon for towns to have busses run from them straight to the port authority without any stops in the middle and to run every few minutes in the morning. That wasn't possible with trains that would stop every couple of miles and never really build up much speed. Sometimes a bus isn't a stop gap it is the best option.

[@Jondude11]

Thank you for this video! I always thought the PABT got a worse rap than it deserves. It may not be the cleanest place on earth, but it is pretty easy to get around and is airier than Penn Station (not counting the new Moynihan Train Hall).

[@microcolonel]

I took a transfer in NYC at the Port Authority bus terminal, my first impression is that it was kinda dingy, but everyone there seemed like they were there to travel, there weren't any fights or anything, so it's one of my better New York experiences.

[@benlewinter144]

PABT is a fascinating place. I can think of a few other efforts going on to fix this issue. One is expanding George Washington Bridge Bus terminal which is complete. Secondly there’s extending Hudson-Bergen light rail, but idk what’s been up with that. Also, I’ve seen some NJ suburbs start to provide free shuttle/jitney services to rail stations, which relieves bus demand. I think there’s even been moderate ferry expansions to some towns. Even with all of that, it’s hard to imagine a version of PABT that can really keep up. Trans-Hudson bus demand is seemingly endless.

[@CityNerd]

I'd have to look further into the Trans-Hudson Commuting Capacity Study to see if they accounted for all that in the forecasting. Usually if there's "reasonably likely" funding for a project over the 20-year horizon (like Hudson-Bergen LRT maybe), then it's assumed as part of any transportation forecasting. Maybe not jitneys!

[@zeroone8800]

The capacity study only included the central business district of Manhattan, which the George Washington Bridge is significantly north of, and so has a hard time including in the calculations correctly.

[@LeemeSeeYaJAZZhands]

Great video! I’ve spent many commuting hours crossing the Husdon over the last 9 years using most of the modes described in your video. The map of commuting modes by town is fascinating. I was surprised to see such car-heavy commutes in Bergen county. I assumed that LI and Westchester would be primarily rail commuters, but I was surprised by the homogeneity. I’ve come to appreciate having multiple transit options when commuting to NY.

[@youngscrappyhungry4570]

That describes a good part of my life! But the 128 bus doesn’t use the XBL - it runs north/south on Blvd. East, right on top of the cliffs.

[@ThepoLarbear-le1yz]

Video suggestion - Best Cities to visit national parks on transit? Probably just for the US. Even in an urbanist utopia it's nice to get back to nature once in a while.

[@NathanRixThroughGlass]

43 buses in one hour for one line just really boggles the mind

[@rnunez6398]

One reason for the back-ups is that generally buses discharge passengers along one extended platform with multiple stairs & escalators (seen around the 9-minute mark). Let's say the first few buses finish their drop off, the 10 or 20 buses behind don't automatically move up to occupy that empty space, so those behind them are still stuck on the ramp unable to get into the terminal. Some buses do bypass that row in the left lane to get to an unused gate but not all are available since some are still used for boarding in the morning.

[@BanyanTree1]

Late nights in Port Authority are a hellscape. All the buses go the mysterious 3rd floor, so all your familiarity with the buses that you normally take is useless, and there's just giant masses of people who repeatedly can't get on their bus because it fills to capacity. Hey Port Authority! If there are so many riders that they can't get on their bus, maybe don't reduce capacity!

[@CityNerd]

Ha, that does sound awful. I focused on peak hour (because I wanted to talk about the XBL), but mid-day and late night are super important for the Manhattan-NJ economy too.

[@neolithictransitrevolution427]

I really enjoy that you have a heavy consideration of Buses in your videos. I mean, I love a train, who doesn't, but buses are most of our transit is buses, and buses are the easiest transit to add. Giving some information and respect to what's possible is a great vibe. I know you have a top 10BRT video, so maybe this is to much overlap, but I would love see either a top 10 Stroad to BRT conversation, Top 10 Stroads that should have BRT, or how yo convert a stroad to BRT. Just some lanes not the entire Stroad.

[@CityNerd]

Stroad-to-BRT is a cool idea.

[@LeadTrumpet1]

The PABT is very much needed. The Hudson Tunnels that carry Amtrak and NJ Transit are aging and at capacity. New York, New Jersey, and the Feds have been arguing over who should pay for new tunnels (that are owned and operated by Amtrak on the busy NEC) and how that delays have become more and more common. I remember being on a train outside Secaucus for over an hour during the morning rush because delays in the Hudson Tunnels. So “just running more trains” was never a solution.

[@markstocker5121]

My grandfather lived in Weehawken, NJ just on the other end of the Lincoln Tunnel. My first introduction to NYC was the Port Authority bus terminal.

[@R4baDader]

I definitely think that a good solution to the trans-hudson commuter issue is the construction of an RER style network in new york. Penn station isn't cutting it, and we need a new station that can get commuters from both sides of manhattan into the city quickly and efficiently. But an RER isn't just one station, it's a series of them, so one of said stations could be a dedicated interchange between buses and high frequency, high throughput trains across the hudson. think a secondary PATH that can take you across the east river, or connect you to trenton.

[@bellairefondren7389]

Get commuters from both sides of Manhattan into the city quickly?

[@Joesolo13]

I think 7 train to Secaucus would fill some of that need. It was largely billed as an alternative to the new Hudson tunnels for NEC trains(which are badly needed regardless, for redundancy if nothing else) but itd fill a need

[@Tengokujin]

As someone who used to use those buses regularly and have plenty of complaints about them, their existence and relatively reliability aren't part of those complaints :p

[@stickynorth]

So... rail! ;-) Seriously though, NY and NJ need to get over their rivalries and differences and get that Trans-Hudson railway line built already... Enough talk and planning studies... Clearly the need is already there!

[@davidlampe4153]

I work in the sub-basement at the Port Authority bus terminal and repair the servers. The PABT is an amazing place.

[@hotbeefo]

I just got back from a visit to Prague and wow their public transport is amazing. I'd definitely watch a video about why if you are interested in doing it.

[@davidschmidt5507]

Watching this on a NJ Transit Bus on my way to Port Authority. The bus is great. A car commute would take 1.6x as long (I’ve done the math). Plus no paying for Gas (besides the fare obviously). Now I get to watch KZbin on my commute. Big fan.

[@georgekaufer6738]

Not all of the buses in the Lincoln Tunnel go out to the PABT. Some are NYCT buses from Staten Island towards East Midtown (and one to West Midtown), as well as a few other Coach USA routes that terminate in other parts of Midtown.

[@aph757]

There’s also lots of Gua gua buses - these are the smaller buses used in Spanish speaking communities that drop off on the street in Manhattan, there are hundreds of these buses and they’re cheaper to use

[@simondunham9998]

Learning something new every Wednesday! Thanks for another great video. Something I picked up while researching MTA and NYC transit in general is how many people commute to the city for work. It's hard to find this data for other cities but I think a top 10 list of cities (proper) with the highest concentration of jobs and what that implies or should imply for transit in the area would be super interesting. I live in the sprawling mess that is Fort Myers FL, and I was somewhat shocked to find that a very small percentage of the people who work in Fort Myers actually live here. Most of them commute 45 minutes to Naples, and most of the Fort Myers workers are from Cape Coral. The whole thing makes no sense (nothing makes sense here in Florida) as compared to NYC where some 80% of all employees live and work in the city. Transit access, overall density and a plethora of other factors play into those numbers obviously, but it would be interesting to hear if you have any thoughts on this, since we talk a lot about infrastructure and services in cities and not so much the lives of the people in the city and the job is arguably the #1 reason people live in any given city.

[@BuildaSkill]

Hey, I know this one! So many hours of my life in that tunnel.. Until I got an electric bike and commuted over the GWB. Interesrinflh2 for how busy it is it has some of the worst bike lanes and approaches. There were lawsuits over head on crashes due to narrow widths. PA is redoing the bike approaches, but kept the bike lanes too narrow.

[@nefarious_kitty]

"Mistaking a goofy casserole for pizza" wow shots fired! What do you have against Chicago?

[@GojiMet86]

Maybe you should check out the New Jersey Jitneys! They are privately owned companies that service JFK Blvd, Bergenline Avenue, and other corridors. They run from Hoboken, Journal Square, Fairview, Bergen, and Bayonne into the Port Authority (with some stops outside the terminal). They provide a lot competition with NJT buses. The equipment itself is more rundown than normal buses, but they are starting to get better buses. Fares are similar to NJT (with different zones), with any bus going to the PABT costing extra.

[@ryan225360]

I am FLOORED. This is one of the coolest things I’ve ever heard. A BUS LANE is the highest capacity transit link?

[@ryc2236]

I watched this video the day it came out. I’m visiting NY today with my parents and they happened to take a wrong turn. I instantly recognized the curving on ramp… yes, we drove through the port authority bus terminal. As a fellow city nerd, I got a personal tour of the busiest bus terminal in the world. 😂

[@bjoe9542]

I think your excellent video fails to spell out maybe greatest virtue of the XBL lane: that it creates an incentive for commuters who live far, far from the city, who would otherwise be utterly car dependent, to choose to rely on mass transit options to commute to work. The extra 20 minutes or so it shaves off of commuting times makes it a viable option for those who live even 50 miles away from the urban core of Manhattan (looking at you, 139 line riders!) Also, a correction. The 128 line (my line now!) with its 43 8am-hour buses does NOT use the XBL (though it does use the dedicated ramps into the Port Authority. Like what I think are all or nearly all of the other high-frequency lines you allude to, it services city-adjacent commuters from Hudson County and northeast Bergen County, and relies on local approaches into the tunnel, and not 495 or the upper stretches of the helix.

[@michaelpepe105]

I love riding via bus into Port Authority. Easiest way to get from Philly to NYC

[@ReggieRichardson]

The XBL was a beauty on my commute when I was working in the city...until the day a bus broke down in it while my bus *just* entered it. I ended up 80 minutes late to work. 🙃😂🤷🏾‍♂️ It's about as good as a bolted-on solution could be though.

[@gamelord12]

I use PABT all the time, on the Greyhound. I grew up in New Jersey but now live in NYC. If you want to know why I take the Greyhound, look at the NJ Transit rail map, and find the biggest dead zone in the state; that's where I need to get to, haha. For a video suggestion, what's your take on the current state of protected bike lane infrastructure in major US cities? And do you think we're on a good pace for it being respectable in the near future? (The cities I spend the most time in all seem to be making improvements to their bike infrastructure.)

[@EmperorNefarious1]

First time I ever went to NYC my family found parking in New Jersey and took a bus in, much much cheaper if you factor in the cost of sitting in all that traffic and parking in the city as a tourist (I'm sure locals know how to find it cheaper). I would think it would be more efficient to build a terminal on the other side of the river and run a special rail connection across, but since I know the rail system is also at capacity it obviously won't work for now.

[@amazingkook143]

I have never seen this lane before in my entire life. I've lived in NJ for most of my life and I use the Buses from time to time to get into NY if I can't get there by car. I guess it's because I rarely use the Buses on a weekday in the early morning. I always use the busses to go to a sports game on the weekend or the afternoon.

[@h.d.h]

I also live in New Jersey. I have only chosen to drive into New York City 2 times (except Staten Island and not including on my motorcycle). The bus is almost as fast but muuuuch cheaper and less of an overall hassle while affording me more flexibility. I don't feel as stressed either.

[@halleradam]

I lived in Hoboken in the late 90s. The bus was very effective for getting to midtown, picking me up closer to my apartment and putting me closer to work than the Path. It was actually maddening though that local buses from Hoboken and Weehawken (at the time at least) did not get to use the XBL lane, so we’d sit in traffic while watching suburbanites get to whisk by faster.

[@CityNerd]

It's gotta be a tough job for the NJT service planners to figure out how to allocate peak hour slots to different routes. Super fascinating.

[@davidfrischknecht8261]

When I drive into the City, the PABT is where I usually park. I know it's more expensive, but I'm pretty much guaranteed to find a spot. Plus, it connects directly to the NYC Subway.

[@ThermoMan]

Fascinating video, infrastructure and problem!

[@lizcademy4809]

There is definitely a stigma against bus use in the USA. I'm an urban professional without a car. I normally walk the 2 miles to my downtown office, but an injury has me taking the bus. Judging only by appearance (which is very flawed) rush hour ridership is mostly lower income bracket people, college students and a few professionals like me. Yesterday I needed to go to a clinic in Middle Suburbia for the above-mentioned injury. There was a bus line from downtown right past the clinic, it only ran once an hour but the timing worked. There were maybe 10 people on the bus ... a couple appeared homeless, a few low-wage workers, one guy who got off at a car dealership, and me. This is a very functional route, going past several big box stores, many car dealers, a few large employers ... but I felt like I didn't belong on the bus. Maybe I've watched too much "Not Just Bikes" ... I expect busses to carry people from all social classes, all income levels. Here, it almost feels like busses are seen as "welfare transportation", for those poor souls who can't afford a car. [I don't have a car because I don't need one. I live where I can walk to almost everything I need ... except this one clinic!]

[@CityNerd]

It depends on the city and the time of day. I take the bus a lot in a city where it's definitely stigmatized -- I try to simultaneously keep to myself and keep an open mind. It still takes me aback sometimes, though! If you have a car, it's easy to forget certain segments of society exist, or simply ignore them.

[@Sp4mMe]

Something I found interesting is that in Munich they are currently building a tram expansion, and one of the arguments as to why they aren't just using buses instead is that even if all other things were equal more people would be willing to use a tram (or subway or train) than a bus. Since they want to maximize ridership their choice is trams. Obviously there's some objective arguments (like rail vehicles just have smoother rides ... unless your rails are in a real awful state) but seems to me like there's a mild bias against buses just generally.

[@Wilma.Flintstone]

Native New Yorker here! Just want to say that us warning people about going into Port Authority isn't classism, it's simply because it's not always the most safest place to be. Similar to the other large transportation hubs in the city (Penn Station, Grand Central, etc), many people who are using drugs in the open, fighting one another, etc. hang out in various parts of Port Authority. NYers don't care at all about who takes public transportation, so there is no classism for this particular thing

[@3dplanet100]

Amazing. If you go to Union City and look under those bridges btw 30th St and 31st St (thats Rt 495), you will see tons and tons of buses, even on 30th and 31st streets. No wonder is the world's busiest, lol.

[@kenhunt5153]

Probably your best researched piece. This had to take a good deal of time pre and post production. I was born and raised in NYC - Sty Town. When you look at subway demands, bus, commuter rail, car and truck needs you could spend a few hundred billion easily and that does not take into account climate change and the movement of people. It will be a very heavy lift going forward for the TriState Area.

[@Skorphie]

everytime i see a new citynerd video im so happy!

[@MrEricSir]

Love the Timosha21 channel, never would have learned about quirky transit vehicles like that one tram that runs on rubber tires -- it's tough to explain but makes more sense after watching the video.

[@TheScourge007]

Woah! A City Nerd video that isn't a numbered list or transit race?! My world has been shattered. Though with that many busses in one place, how bad is the Port Authority terminal's air quality compared to a train station? Is there a noticeable difference?

[@icedragon769]

I can say from experience: not great. You can definitely feel it in your lungs when you're in the space between the bus and the terminal shelter. Fortunately you only have to endure that for a few seconds outside of rare occasions.

[@h.d.h]

You aren't outside waiting with the buses fortunately.

[@idl9ave419]

Dual North Bergen/Manhattan resident here. Nice to see the reference to the NJT 128 bus (which as someone has already pointed out, enters the "helix" via a local road not the XBL). Contrary to other posts, the PABT is NOT dangerous, it is crawling with police and since 9/11, military people with automatic weapons.. Even the bathrooms are safe. But, yes it is 'downmarket', and parts of adjacent 8th Avenue are like the old "forty deuce". My sense is high-earning commuters come into NY by train, ferry, or private car (I speak from experience.) Something to watch - that politicians beholden to real estate developers don't relocate a new PABT further west. One big advantage of the current PABT is that the A,C,E subway lines are right there, and the 1,2,3,7,N, R, and S lines are only one block away.

[@kelseyduerksen6404]

I'm looking forward to what you say about TBC Loop, I noticed the bit at the end. I was participating in a forum discussion about the pros and cons of the system (what I perceive are the cons), but since I'm terrible at debating, I didn't really get anywhere. I also haven't found anybody who knows transit talk about Loop in a meaningful way. The urbanist/transit advocate points are always: 1. Elon Musk is the owner, and Elon Musk is a billionaire 2. Billionaires are bad, and since Elon is a billionaire, The Boring Company and every enterprise he owns is dumb. 3. Elon owns Telsa, and since Tesla makes cars, this is just a marketing ploy to sell more cars. 4. Cars are inherently bad for cities, and putting them underground isn't going solve anything. 5. Tunnels are expensive, so why go to the work of building a tunnel when you could just put a train in it? Cars can't haul as many people, therefore such a system is inefficient. Some of the arguments to the above points are: 1 and 2: Irrelevant, this is just attacking the person without taking a project at its own merits. 3. Why is this an issue? If TBC and Telsa operate and build such a system for a city, this would be an integrated system. Besides, people won't be driving themselves in the tunnels anyways. 4. This is ignoring the fact the what TBC wants to do is to have many many tunnels with every vehicle inside autonomously controlled. Traffic won't be an issue because humans won't be in control of the system, thereby causing congestion. 5. The aim of TBC is to dramatically reduce the cost of tunnelling, thereby making it easy to build many miles of tunnels. Other arguments for TBC: Automously controlled vehicles/pods inside a tunnel allow for very small headway, thereby making such a system quite efficient. People who bash TBC always make the same bad faith arguments saying that "it's just cars in a tunnel, nothing new here". It's true for Las Vegas right now, but their goals are much more advanced than that, and the Las Vegas system is barely a start. Loop is basically PRT underground, a closed loop system. TBC Loop will make cities more pedestrian friendly/walkable because the transit system will be underground, also it will reduce the number of cars on surface streets. Again, these are not my own opinions, but what I've picked up from other forum users. I honestly haven't heard a rational argument by anyone who knows anything about transit/urbanism without resorting to the usual Elon-bashing. If you could provide an honest analysis of what TBC aspires to offer, I would love to hear your take. For reference, here's the forum link I'm referring to. It starts getting interesting here: forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42143.4280

[@amolis24]

I love this ! Thanks for the video! This helps me with my commute. I live in Rockland County. It is unsustainable for me to travel to NYC daily by car, I am new to commuting on public transportation. So thanks ❤️❤️❤️

[@sdstacey46]

Great video. Could you do one about the Journal Square Transportation Center here in Jersey City.? It's an interesting intermodal node that needs some love.

[@RobertWilke]

Some Love and much needed Work. If anything needed better access it's the PA PATH and Bus terminal in Jersey City. You have one main city road that's 4-6 lanes wide depending on where you are. with the Terminal having small feeder streets on the three other sides. It could never handle the traffic it should have to get people into the city.

[@urbanderek]

Awesome video, I genuinely had no idea North America could have arrival rates that high. One idea I thought would be interesting to look at is the best places in American for higher speed rail. Like places that don’t have the commuters for high speed rail, but could use 90-110 mph electric trains with high frequencies. I think Lansing to Detroit or Colorado Springs to Denver would be good examples of what I’m talking about

[@kmfc-1517]

Amtrak is already investing in upgrading a lot of its Midwestern lines to 110mph service

[@r.d.9399]

New York City is a completely different animal compared to any other city in the U.S.

[@qjtvaddict]

That’s regional rail

[@qjtvaddict]

@@r.d.9399 no more excuses

[@pugzilla3597]

I work at a facility that tests cars, trucks, and other driving vehicles and currently we have tests running for semis that can use adaptive cruise to follow each other, obviously it’s on a closed course with very little other traffic but it seems to be working very well right now

[@JordanPeace]

I am once again requesting a video on the top ten cycling cities in North America

[@qolspony]

I read 5 years ago that Port Authority was going to move near the Terminal of the #7 subway line. This will move the traffic away from 8th Avenue into a less crowded corridor. They also plan to build a bus storage facility near the terminal. This alone will create efficiency as the current terminal doesn't have the storage to hold buses for a certain period of time.

[@zyoninkiro]

The Port Authority Bus Terminal was my gateway into NYC. I got to be quite familiar with PABT and the Lincoln Tunnel/Rte 495.

[@TheCored]

Im from Europe, but when my familiy visited we wanted to live more locally, so we lived in hoboken in a airbnb and therefore we had to take a bus. It was rough to buy the tickets but otherwise it was really fun to try something more local. Tbh the view of New York from New Jersey is insane. The port authority is a very strange but very cool new thing ting for me

[@h.d.h]

Yeah, buying tickets is tough. A 10-trip ticket package is the best option for tourists with families.

[@empty_bliss1877]

As a former NJ resident, I rode the 165 to Port Authority Bus Terminal and then either a Greyhound or Peter Pan to get to my final destination.

[@Aeyekay0]

Besides the fact that PABT is rundown and a little grimy, the main problem people have like you said is it’s just a pain in the butt to get to and from there, and if you miss a bus you could be waiting 30 minutes for the next one

[@matthewhernandez8342]

I used to take the 114 bus from Port Authority to visit my family in North Plainfield, NJ.

[@spencerhenry9674]

Great video, one of your most interesting topics yet

[@talronen2340]

This is great and well deserved, just, um, Ray no one here says “the” port authority. It’s just Port Authority, or PABT

[@CTrail1711]

The grey areas are those who mostly fly or swim for commuting. (Geese and Ducks)

[@sammythaangel9945]

I always get excited to see new uploads

[@anipond7384]

Can you do the top 10 North American streetcar/trams?

[@FsnGoldandSilver]

I hope you didn’t try to use a bathroom while you were there. My family had a sales office in the terminal from roughly 1963 to 1973. We shipped by bus our printed materials back and forth which was quick and economical. Jersey was low cost at the time. My mother started working at the office in 1967. It was an eye opener for this overly protected suburb kid. People drying their clothes using bathroom hand driers. Acts of violence and perversion like you can’t imagine. Homeless people all over the place and surprisingly some pretty good food outlets at one time or another. The homeless would sleep on the mezzanine level and every morning the cleaners would clean up the mess. They called it “turning over the sheets.” It’s an experience that you never forget.

[@chrisgeorge74]

Youre talking about an experience over 50 years ago, things change. Homeless are still there but there's no violence whatsoever. Lots of police and military personnel there

[@A_Canadian_In_Poland]

The old Champlain Bridge in Montreal had this exact same setup for buses, conceived around the same time.

[@arhanmenon1526]

I feel like there should be a second large bus terminal at Secaucus to alleviate congestion at Port Authority. We should also extend PATH to Secaucus for redundancy and increased capacity.

[@vali20vali20vali20]

This is a real bus lane, a case for it existing and a good use of it and the space, not like the majority of such lanes where they are kept empty most of the time and drivers have to queue up on the remaining lane just because hipsters like bus lanes. Same for bike lanes.

[@kailahmann1823]

this leads me to a topic suggestion: If you are ever in Hamburg, watch for the line 5 busses there… That's a so called Metroline, running every THREE minutes during work hours and serving more than 60.000 people every day. They use super long articulated busses with a length of 21m, which are already rare. But the ones in Hamburg have a (for now exclusive) fifth door. These things are built like "subways on tires". Imagine the XBL filled with these things ;)

[@EnjoyFirefighting]

as mentioned articulated buses don't or barely work at the PABT, and Hamburg's approach to somehow compensate not having a tram network any longer is rather poor; THe extra long articulated buses replaced the previously used double articulated buses which were just a mess - while those systems work pretty well elsewhere, it didn't quite work out for Hamburg

[@SirKenchalot]

Elizabeth Line is due to open in London in 20 days and only 3 years or so overdue. Have you done a top 10 most dleayed/over-optimistic/plagued infrastructure?

[@xr6lad]

If you think 3 years overdue is a lot you need to get out more.

[@CityNerd]

Oh man, I'd have to come up with criteria that weight schedule, budget, and ridership over-optimism, all of which are rampant. Where to begin?

[@hobog]

2nd AVE subway is a cliché on transit KZbin

[@SirKenchalot]

@@CityNerd Ignore ridership as that would exclude unfinished projects and be unfair when comparing different modes. Schedule/budget are the key criteria with a wildcard related to prestige maybe.

[@cypher50]

@@CityNerd Probably Water Tunnel #2, the 2nd Ave. Subway, California High Speed Rail, LA Metro....

[@gdrriley420]

that map at 10:20 is so sad, there is under or unused rail lines going through much of the cost near Hudson

[@icedragon769]

The problem with the Hudson Coast is that there's a great big 300 ft cliff dividing the region in half. If you want to make a subway, it's either going to be way up over the heads of the lower areas, or hundreds of feet below the ground in the heights. Surface trains don't work because of the steep grades' they'd have to climb. Biking and walking the last mile is infeasible because of the physical challenge (I tried it once, most brutal bike climb of my life, vomited as soon as I hit the top). New Jersey is really uniquely bus-friendly

[@qjtvaddict]

@@icedragon769 nonsense open cut can do it