What America's shopping mall decline means for social space

The mall was America’s third place - for better or for worse.
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Our lives are lived in 1 of 3 places, the home, the workplace and the “third place,” which is anywhere outside of those two.
Toward the end of the 20th century, the regional shopping mall had become that third place, the hang-out spot in suburban America. This was largely by design - an immigrant architect created the first mall in the vision that it would be a community gathering place.
The plan didn’t work out as he intended. While malls did take off, they more often than not couldn’t quite catch on as ideal “third places.” But with an estimated 25% of shopping malls expected to close in the next five years, there’s an opportunity to re-examine where Americans spend their time and what could be the next iteration of the third place.
Further reading for those interested in this subject, I recommend the following books and articles:
Ray Oldenburg's The Great Good Place - he coined the term 'third place' and set the theory for the 8 qualities mentioned in this video: www.amazon.com...
New Yorker's 2006 profile of the creator of regional shopping malls: www.newyorker....
On the role US tax policy played in the shopping-center boom of the 1950s and 1960s: www.jstor.org/...
& Vox's Matt Ylgesias on the coming ‘retail apocalypse’ in the states: www.vox.com/ne...
p.s. here is Toto's Africa (playing in an abandoned shopping centre) • Toto - Africa (playing...
Vox.com is a news website that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines. Check out www.vox.com.
Watch our full video catalog: goo.gl/IZONyE
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Or Twitter: goo.gl/XFrZ5H

[@Vox]

For those wondering about title graphic at :33, it's Cecil Robert's - Toto- Africa (playing in an empty shopping centre)! kzbin.info/www/bejne/epDCZ5utps-Nd9U

[@erzajumeidi]

Nice!

[@ietsbram]

weirdly biased, uninformative and useless video

[@StanleyMfYang2022]

I BLESSED THE RAINS DOWN IN AFRICA

[@l.tc.5032]

Vox I usually go to the waterfront as my 3rd place it's peaceful.

[@meegz149]

Actually Vox, you forgot the fourth place, the safe space. #NotmyMedia #Patriarchy

[@mostfrozenburrito]

What ever happened to arcades in malls? That’s a good third space right there. I used to go to mall arcades all the time as a kid and now I never see them anymore. I don’t see any arcades anymore. We should bring back arcades

[@Remorsefullyhumble]

Probably just malls that are less known and smaller.there is a mall called music City Mall and it has a theme it's in Lewisville Texas north of dallas but it's more community based. And it also has a arcade

[@jayson1505]

Yeah shout out aladins palace at del amo mall in Torrance california

[@user-yb6ft9zw6z]

@@jayson1505 oh wow I have not been in del amo mall for more than 3 years!. Last time I visited a mall was at Southbay, watching movies with my nephew. Even that mall feels dead outside of amc theater.

[@paul2019.]

Frozen Burrito there is one in the mall near me; it is so successful, I don’t think it will close

[@youre1110]

There is entertainment like that in a mall located in Santa Ana, called Mainplace Mall, it has trendy stores and entertainment if you look for it somewhere.

[@MakoTheFrog]

where are we gonna hold out against the zombos when all the malls are gone? that's what i wanna know.

[@luisfloressidekick]

pathetic Maybe at an elementary school where you can pick up an English book.

[@sarahbarragan1635]

you still have Costco and IKEA​

[@syrtech121]

luis flores damn

[@topnotchcoffee]

pathetic Here in Chicago, we have Maggie Daley Millennial Park. The children's playground is basically a fort.

[@thatminimalistguy1755]

pathetic hold up in yo house foo!

[@vg8527]

Malls aren’t only fun for the rich I’m fairly poor and I have a blast just walking around the mall with my friends. Also, there’s just too many malls and most of them need to be remodeled to today’s standards to appeal to the people.

[@windskm]

Maybe your mall was designed to be like that. But that's not the case for every mall

[@fan4life34]

Malls are still the way to enjoy shopping, dining, movies, entertainment etc! I will always support my local mall no matter what!

[@r.chavez5513]

@Brianna Andreacci the lil trains are cutw though

[@gopackgo4036]

fan4life34 it’s not “local” it’s filled with chains lol. The closest thing you’ve ever supported to local is your towns franchised McDonald’s.

[@jessicacolumbus8893]

Did you hear what he said? He said they're MORE fun for the rich not ONLY fun.

[@justyourbasicarmy9303]

I like malls better because you can actually see what to buy and if it fits rather than ordering it without knowing your size or how it looks irl

[@fan4life34]

100%, people are just beyond lazy now (especially millennials)

[@guardian6975]

@@fan4life34 true

[@stevend3753]

Malls also have outrageously high rent per square foot. Only tenants that can afford it are big brands. And even they can’t seem to cope with the prices. Let alone a local with high hopes having a prayer of making it work out.

[@artuselias]

Large dining halls with healthy, reasonable priced food like at the universities would make a great 'third place' for me.

[@paullewis4134]

Artux LMAO no

[@thegrosspeach]

University unions are pretty great

[@ilovesparky13]

So then why don't you just go to your local university?

[@voshi2211]

Artux my university doesnt have any healthy or reasonably priced food =/

[@libbybollinger5901]

ilovesparky13 likely because they aren’t going to university right now

[@CecilCeceRobert]

Hey, I made that Africa edit you used in the title. I don't mind you using it at all, but I'd appreciate it if you credited me.

[@11thWonderCinema]

Cecil Robert bump

[@Vox]

Hey Cecil! I'll add a link to your video in our description. p.s., if you look in the credits, I made sure to add your name there. *Great* job with the edit - Carlos

[@CecilCeceRobert]

Vox Thank you!

[@danialashraf99]

Vox Carlos Strikethrough!!!

[@MapleMilk]

I appreciate that someone made a mistake, someone else calmly asked them to fix it, and they did as quickly as possible. It just doesn’t happen like that enough.

[@josh_prada]

America has volumes to learn from Europe in this particular aspect. Spain, for example, is fantastic at this and you can find "third spaces" everywhere. There is a good public transport network and cities/towns are walkable throughout, not only a small two-street area in downtown, as is characteristic of most US cities/towns. That's why I see so much future in places like Indianapolis, where infrastructure supports the development of third spaces for everyone to enjoy.

[@SoloTravelerOffTheBeatenPath]

Public transport is not as developed in America because we are such a car culture. Taking the city bus is almost viewed as "lower class" here. Totally different from Europe.

[@ketaminepoptarts]

tbh the entire downtown section of my city feels like a third place

[@TheSycaman]

America doesn't learn. We lie to ourselves and jump to the next thing pretending the issue didn't happen

[@dbclass4075]

Those are known as Superblocks. Vox had made a video about it.

[@justsamoo3480]

Ketamine Poptarts You just described every European city ever.

[@penguinexpress12]

Did I hear Toto from Africa?

[@louispalko691]

Nah, you heard Africa from Toto

[@jmtol6258]

That 0:29 bit is from here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/epDCZ5utps-Nd9U

[@NathanDavisVideos]

Yupp!

[@howardstern9129]

Penguinexpress That was Just beat it by Michael Jackson

[@johns3937]

Penguinexpress no... it just sounded exactly like it....

[@shiusa3202]

There’s a mall at the far north end of my town that used to be THE place to hang on Friday nights when I was in high school. But halfway through then, the company who owns the mall literally banned teenagers from hanging there unless they “bought something” which made a lot of people mad so they boycotted it altogether. Now this mall is going out of business, and I can’t help but feel like that was a bit of the reason. They definitely thought that large groups of teenagers pushed customers away, but really the mall just looking full made people think higher of it. It’s so empty now. And also even if a kid didn’t necessarily have plans to buy something going in, they more than likely did once they were there, even if it was just food. This decision removed this mall from being a good third place and therefore killed itself in the process. Rude as hell

[@coraldiamond1922]

shiusa Stupid that a place would ban a type of customer from entering its place of business. Just because they feared some might do bad but in fact most would be going there and spending money anyway. Usually on food I guess but still. I agree, that decision probably did not help in the long run.

[@OakenTome]

shiusa That mall deserves to go out of business for kicking out it's largest and broadest demographic and telling them to stay out.

[@Camelotsmoon]

That's what the mall in the small town did that I lived in like 6 years ago, after that it was a ghost town.

[@gigiblack2231]

Wow, that's a terrible decision. Whoever set those rules sounds like the Grinch​.

[@GUITARTIME2024]

shiusa black teens. Lol

[@nakenmil]

This is an interesting take, because I used to study Human Geography, and one of the main criticisms given to shopping malls (at least in the 60s-70s) was that they were essentially "non-places", ie. had no sense of local identity (beyond branding) and did not really foster natural socialization, just casual interaction while browsing. The mall often killed off local shopping streets, and increased the need for cars, etc.

[@lawrencetchen]

Green spaces in the middle of cities. Public squares with art. Places with no vehicular traffic but are easily accessible by bike or foot.

[@fionatanzer5270]

MegaCrasherMusic - easily solved. Provide camping grounds and toilets for the homeless. Then provide camping grounds and public toilets anyway for everyone else. Some of the fun times we have had have been when our son's school hosted a family camping night on the school field.

[@AdrianMartinez-ek4kl]

MegaCrasherMusic Unnecessary political attachment.

[@davidbarnesstuff53]

We did that in Waco, Texas but it was kinda pathetic and nobody goes there.

[@bfnvalley]

Fiona Tanzer Yeah, why pay for crime prevention when we could KEEP giving away money to people who don’t work.

[@94fleetwood49]

+Low Standards Where I live, the 4 seasons keeps away the homeless to the south. Sure do love the 3 months of winter weather! ❄☃🌨

[@cbeautynblue19]

My city approved a revitalized outlets mall a few years ago and during the weekdays, that third place is nearly vacant. People like me want fun things to do and memorable experiences not just a place to spend money every other day. If there were activities alongside the stores, more people would spend their time at my local Outlets mall just like the National Mall.

[@psyched.shelby5391]

My local mall is dead. Only half the stores are open in it and there’s only ever like 5 people walking around in there lol.

[@MatthewFrattali]

Yet another well-crafted video from vox. My only quibble is the idea that the national mall is some sort of community builder. There’s few locals, just lots of tourists who do not really talk to each other. It does nothing to build community.

[@madguy228]

"The malls are the soon-to-be ghost towns well so long, farewell, good bye" -Modest Mouse, 1996

[@JamsMinecraft]

watho let's all get another Orange Julius

[@JamsMinecraft]

MegaCrasherMusic haha

[@Friendship1nmillion]

watho No more gun massacres in American shopping malls, eh? *I shouldn't make that joke should I* ?

[@catmario9947]

Hate that quote

[@Callsign-Blade_RunnerSG]

I’m a young guy, I personally prefer the Malls for shopping and socialising. Brick and Mortar Stores are especially important to me because I believe in SEEING and FEELING the products before purchasing them. The internet and Amazon are just for product reviews for me.

[@uss_04]

Billy The-Kid Agreed. Plus so many bad product pictures. Used to showroom my stuff at Best Buy, before ordering online. Horrible I know. But now I buy at these stores whenever possible and ask for a price match.

[@SciencewithKatie]

Me too, especially with clothes and shoes.

[@Beaneabean]

30 isnt young.

[@johnharrington1744]

The Third Space is a very interesting concept and makes a lot of sense to me. It's crazy to me that so many American suburbs were built without any consideration whatsoever for communal spaces. With the internet and video games continually isolating young people from each other, since kids stay home way more often, availability to third spaces needs to become a priority in how kids are raised.

[@beanpasteposts]

Ngl, as someone raised in the city, the suburbs seem downright hostile to anyone under the age of 50, but especially kids and teens.

[@Shadowphoenixfire]

I hope people can consider going to their local public library as a viable option for an indoor "third place." Libraries have changed and evolved a lot in recent years and when well-funded can be great safe places to meet friends, take a class, learn new things, play games, or just hang out.

[@Shadowphoenixfire]

Not in all cases, but often yes, you can! Increasingly coffee shops with food are located in public libraries (especially the newer ones). Many libraries allow you to eat and drink in the library (if you clean up after yourself), so if there isn't a cafe in the library, you may be able to bring your lunch there. If you ask the staff, you may be surprised.

[@Bra-a-ains]

Amazingly, more and more libraries are allowing drinking in the library, sometimes in special rooms. Free internet with a cup of coffee by my side is a great place to work. Clean bathrooms, big parking lots, an amazing increase in electrical outlets, and lots of quiet, too. And, if you have kids (or nieces and nephews, there is usually a catalog of activities.

[@johnharrington1744]

a third space doesn't need to sell anything. parks and beaches make ideal third spaces.

[@blanco7726]

I don’t like the vibe in libraries personally. It seems too serious.

[@user-ye6ty9ie8g]

kick out the homeless people first

[@LeahandLevi]

As a social and human geography student this video was a way more interesting version of what we learn in class everyday.

[@Tragedyval]

internet is the new 3rd place less people are going outside, more people are staying home

[@LeahandLevi]

Ayyyyyyeee that's cool! Nice to meet you too!

[@aglassofwater3431]

*Toto - Africa (playing in an empty shopping centre)*

[@ruanfernando]

what? I was like: what the hell is that?? So I decided to search for it on youtube and now I'm like: what the hell is that???

[@arldrinbautista9103]

welcome to not so famous part of youtube

[@catherineboleyn5923]

yes and vox didn't give credit .... or did they?

[@WlatPziupp]

I BLESS THE MALLS DOWN IN AFRICA

[@angelo1052]

Proabably one of the most melancholy yet beautiful videos

[@victorlevivalenciano1755]

Vox is like a matured version of buzzfeed

[@spirosmousouris3908]

lowkey insulting them in a good way? wow, nice push'n'pull method mister...

[@voravincii]

Sebastian Elytron Why is it garbage

[@Udontkno7]

But it's good.

[@ncooty]

Except Vox steals most of its story ideas from 99 Percent Invisible. Listen to 99 PI, wait 2 weeks, and you'll get a Vox video of that topic... only much less interesting and not as well researched.

[@IFeelSoTongueTied]

ayyyy shout out to the "Toto- Africa (playing in an empty shopping centre)" video in the intro lmaoo

[@arldrinbautista9103]

Same here!

[@rzo2271]

That gives me aesthetic vibe :D

[@rzo2271]

Oh wait I get it hahaha ye i found that video too i search "aeshetic music - toto" and found that "play in an empty shopping centre" XD

[@QuentinWillemse]

Yassss

[@DM-su6li]

just listened to it this morning

[@sarcasmo57]

Suburbia was a bad idea.

[@max4750]

You would rather live in a tiny apartment in a 70 story building then own your own home? Ok

[@sarcasmo57]

Yeah, it would still be my own home.

[@kevinpratt1885]

Author James Howard Kunstler calls America's suburbia the' greatest misallocation of resources in human history' leading to a whole host of tragic outcomes many of which are currently unfolding.

[@gigiblack2231]

American suburbia yes. Because not only are the homes far away, but all the stores are far apart and require miles of driving. If you look at the suburbs in Dubai though, they did it so so so much better.

[@JustinSmith28]

gigi black You're joking about the Dubai suburbs right? Dubai is an urban planning nightmare, worse than America in many ways.

[@thedarkpototoy3642]

The mall? I haven’t heard any one say those words in years.

[@randomguyontheinternet8345]

theDARK Pototoy that’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time.

[@__sno__3820]

Best Movies to watch? now that's a name is haven't heard in a long time

[@zeusalexander5502]

I have not heard of Pigeon Man in a long time either...

[@joemancini327]

@@zeusalexander5502 the last time I think I heard Zeus Alexander was 20 years ago, long time.......

[@Ak.watermelon]

do you live in some rural town in alabama

[@johnbagel2560]

To be honest I don't think they cared about social space they just wanted money :P *Plus malls are wasted spending watch the John Oliver video*

[@WlatPziupp]

Victor Gruen DID want to create a social space with nature and bountiful natural lights. Then someone though "Hey, we could do that but stuff it to the brim with shops and make everything revolve around spending money!", which is why Gruen hated them

[@pickletickle8300]

Malls were initially meant to be more like the national mall. With the introduction of business, even then person that "created" the mall hated malls. They were practically the spitting image of a third place, this was slowly stripped through the introduction of what we now consider the main characteristic of a mall

[@hebarahman9082]

Which john oljver video?

[@batmandalorian5504]

@ Eltaccos Neczy comedy often speaks the truth better than the news.

[@junejuly48]

Cj W agree

[@rumrunner8019]

The new "third place" will be a computer simulation called "the Oasis"

[@mcp12300]

rum runner except for people who don't have a computer and people that think that sounds doubious and inadiquite, me being one

[@Chooong7]

MC_P_123 take the leap

[@mcp12300]

Chooong7 I had to look it up didn't realize we were referencing the film.

[@chrispoland3637]

I rly want someone to make it lmao

[@mactastic144]

The Oasis is an aberation of the human condition. Spending time in a virtual world instead of fixing the problems in the real world is sad. If I had gotten all of the keys, I would have destroyed the Oasis.

[@victorlevivalenciano1755]

Sure, online shopping might be more convenient and at times, cheaper; but nothing beats the feeling of shopping physically in a mall

[@georgemiser]

We may just go through a bit of a neo-retro craze at some point, so stuff like Arcades and Malls maybe even rental stores where you can temporarily download movies, games, etc could become big. If only for the nostalgia, it could last at least 25 years.

[@jasminarrazola2592]

Levi Valenciano Yes! I totally agree. Plus online shopping also includes the fee of shipping along with your purchases. It's just pricier to shop online.

[@krzysztofpiasek5682]

Meh, I just want to buy goods fast and cheap. I don't want go shopping only to see gargantuic prices or none of desired products at all. I always go shopping alone, it's boring and time expensive so there is no need for other person to suffer as well, if I want to meet somebody I just go to restaurant or coffee shop.

[@mush9966]

But.... nothing beats the feeling of physically opening a package/box that came in the mail:)

[@CletoFrost]

when im in a mall i feel something like a opressive feeling, like theres something forcing me to buy stuff and consume. I agree with the part og physically buying things, but i cant stay at a mall for long

[@SavannahBurris]

The mall about an hour from my house is still doing really well, and was even just renovated to look nicer, so I doubt it's going anywhere. But the idea of social spaces is really interesting. I live in a relatively small town, and sometimes I wished I lived in a place like NYC, that has public transport and lots of public spaces that give you more opportunities to meet people, but alas, NYC is also inaccessible to most people, even with its social spaces, due to high living costs. 😶🥺

[@TheEvilMuffinZ]

We need more third places in America that aren't malls! You seriously cannot do anything outside without being expected to spend money, it's sad, and I feel like that's why there are less and less people going outside... We need to feel a sense of community in this country, it feels so lonely and monotonous: work, go home, stay inside on the internet, and repeat... Even parks are empty now a days...

[@neutrino78x]

That's the whole world not just the USA

[@kimjongfun5427]

The decline of American shopping mall was the biggest tragedy in Roy Moore's life....

[@longdirtytoenails1076]

Kim Jong Fun That pic...

[@vickyabramowitz4919]

Roy Moore likes jailbait.

[@Fetch_The_Bolt_Cutters]

I'm dead 💀💀💀💀💀

[@Iamafafr]

**Sips tea**

[@KennCobain]

Kim Jong Fun What have you done to yourself my son?

[@SciencewithKatie]

Like you say at the end, I totally agree that we should always try and go to an independent coffee shop if we can. I always have a soft spot for the underdog and it's good to support them. ☕️

[@TheAlbHunter]

There's something about the underdog that inspires the unexceptional

[@MLF4468]

Why would anyone go to a coffee shop?

[@anonymousdratini]

Science with Katie damn my local coffee shop is the bomb, it's got bubble tea and is close to my best friend's house.

[@IB1TROLLING]

Lol yea and we should also create safe spaces for our fellow soyboys and crybabies

[@anonymousdratini]

Science with Katie there's also libraries, local gaming stores, pubs, churches, there are a lot of potential 3rd places.

[@christianseehausen9264]

The malls which survive are going to be the ones which integrate well into busy urban areas and the ones which offer more than just blank shopping and chain fast food to their customers (preferably both). The mall food court is actually a decent "third place", when done correctly, although it is usually not. But more and more these food courts are incorporating local businesses and smaller boutique chains rather than just your typical Wendy's, McDonald's, Sbarro. They're also putting a little more thought into the way the space is structured with new renovations. The best malls also include other "third places", like ice skating rinks or children's playgrounds. And there is still functional utility in being able to walk around and try on clothes from many different brands. This can be served by a traditional shopping street, but a mall is a lower-cost way to do it. So I don't think the mall is going to die completely anytime soon. Malls will still exist in the US--but the worst, most generic, emptiest malls will certainly continue to die out. And that's not a bad thing.

[@treebear8364]

so essentially a mall like The Mall of the Emirates in Dubai or Mall of American in Minnesota?

[@christianseehausen9264]

Absolutely, although Mall of America is kind of orphaned amongst freeways, but otherwise yes. Other "healthy mall" examples: The Galleria in Houston, City Center in White Plains NY, The Shops at North Bridge in Chicago.

[@elvalight2135]

lol idk why people are surprised when malls filled with mainly super expensive stores and little to nothing besides that die out.

[@jaybook1281]

Christian Seehausen Great Lakes Crossing in Michigan

[@JtrainMedia]

Was with you until you talked about how "affordable" it is to get into DC. I live in the DC suburbs in NOVA and using any form of public transit to get there will light your wallet on fire. Metro, bus, and VRE all cost an arm and a leg. And if you want to tell me the solution is to live closer to the National Mall, I'll gladly link you to the thousands upon thousands of dollars you're going to need to pay to rent out a closet-sized living space.

[@kylekarenson5355]

LOL I live in NOVA too and when he said the National Mall is cheaper to get to, I loled. Living in and near DC is expensive for a single income household.

[@JtrainMedia]

Hello my fellow NOVA-er! You're totally right. I love the area but commuting and prices are outrageous. I didn't even mention the insanity that would be deciding to drive into DC which, along with it just inherently being a nightmare, will cost you a stupid amount of money just to park for a few hours.

[@JtrainMedia]

No doubt my dude. I know people who lived / live there. I wish DC were like NY where you can find something you want to do on literally every corner. It's like a playground.

[@Garhunt05]

Jtrain Media totally understand man I live 30+ miles out of dc an rent is going to be 830. The mall is nice but we effectively can't visit. We go to parks when we can but there's hardly anyone there. Hopefully Richmond will be better for us (certainly a lot cheaper)

[@JtrainMedia]

Richmond is nice! I know a lot of people who live there and they seem to like it. It should definitely be cheaper than living closer to DC. Certainly a lot less congestion.

[@gpcaraudio]

Support your local dive bars. The winning 3rd place.

[@collinwalker]

www.GPcarAudio.com agreed

[@savagedragon79]

If you can walk there.

[@TheStevehuff]

@Amy Sternheim You can always get a fake id.

[@rhyno8644]

Exactly the night club culture is gone as well. Night life districts have shrunk to a fraction of their size. I travel constantly. Todays clubs suck in every way. And they're usually much smaller.

[@christinetran491]

Lol agreed!!!

[@ccassidy9090]

This is interesting. In England we don't really have malls. Like there are a few but not anywhere near as many. Instead we just have pubs everywhere. And looking at the qualities the video mentioned, they fit a lot better.

[@Udontkno7]

Code Red why shop if you could just get drunk

[@ordinarytree4678]

Code Red they arent great if you dont drink :(

[@jonathanbaker247]

This video is dumb. Aren't malls shopping centers first and foremost? Who goes there for socialization?

[@MClashers]

Drinking age is different

[@batheandrelaxinmyshit6344]

Code Red that was very rude and nasty

[@thegazetteyt]

They built too many malls too fast compared to population growth and now they are mad the mall is dying?

[@coraldiamond1922]

thegazette The same people are mad that they are dying yet they are probably shopping elsewhere or online.

[@ChestersonJack]

No, no one seems mad... who are you talking about?

[@andrineslife]

Public libraries are always nice!

[@WithoutRemorse12]

andrineslife All my local libraries close by 9 pm.

[@81OH4Z4RD]

not a great environment for conversation though.

[@glossygloss472]

Not really. The libraries across the US are basically homeless shelters, even in wealthy cities.

[@Bpags868]

But the object of a library is to be quiet, not have conversations with friends.

[@johnniehornsby4839]

Longer hours, better lighting, maybe serve coffee, tea, etc., and it’ll be a nice place

[@ellisguerrero212]

*Who Remembers going to the mall to talk to girls?*

[@janvanruth3485]

sherif Roy?

[@ellisguerrero212]

Jan, is that you??...

[@johnharrington1744]

what's a girl?

[@SoloTravelerOffTheBeatenPath]

I remember getting a BJ in the dressing room at Nordstrom.

[@ToddHowar.d]

polifatts my man

[@halotroop2288]

I've never really had a third place. That makes me sad, knowing a third of my life is missing, and another third is sleeping.

[@kyledc4105]

The current shift right now in urban development is more green infrastructure. Places where people can attend and further shape the space they want to hang out in. Is it a quiet place where they just want to relax in isolation? Or is a patch of grass where they can chill with their friends, have a small picnic like hangout? Maybe just even walk through and enjoy the scenic view. Malls can just be so shopping oriented and at the end of the day over crowded. I think the bigger issue are the isolated malls because around the world there are still malls of walking distance located in the heart of the city. Those malls are still thriving, but not in terms of social engagement.

[@zippymax1]

The government can fix it. We just need more laws.

[@kyledc4105]

I think it's time to realize that the general city planning ideal just isn't as successful anymore, its too stale. Barcelona has already realized this and theyre welcoming a change under their own parameters with city blocks.

[@panwerv7618]

Texas Jack malls suck that's why they are dieing. Hopefully my generation (millenials) kills them off for sure just like all the other crappy wasteful businesses we are killing off as well.

[@zippymax1]

Pan Werv: The government can fix anything.

[@fionatanzer5270]

There used to be open public parks everywhere. Bring those back.

[@jmike1197]

Fiona Tanzer yes please

[@GUITARTIME2024]

Fiona Tanzer uhh, those still exist in america

[@fionatanzer5270]

raleighman3000 - you're right. I wasn't explicit. I meant that a lot of open land that has been built up could have gone towards public parkland (instead of vast parking areas around shopping malls). I could add now that public parks could be expanded on imaginitively with things for people to do like weekly craft or produce markets or entertainment and so on - there used to be music bands playing in pavilions, for example. Also, I have read that lots of public facilities like swimming pools in the 1950s have also been closed.

[@kj55]

Everything you talked about can be done online for far less $$. And from the comfort of your home. Online is the reason for the decline.

[@carlzune2910]

so... you want a world were everything is online?

[@Xario1]

Recently I have found that a growing "3rd place" is the virtual space. As someone who lives literally in the middle of nowhere, I have had a hard time making friends with the small community that exists here in real life, as many of the people here have very different views and opinions than I do, so when I found VRChat, it felt like I finally found a place where I can make some friends and hang out with people, even if it is in a virtual space and they are actually miles upon miles away.

[@johnsmitherino4913]

Xario1 That VRchat shout-out haha.

[@kylekarenson5355]

Yep, VRChat is a few steps away from becoming the OASIS.

[@3DSuperWaffle]

My computer is too crappy for VRChat to work properly

[@Xario1]

Aurora Borealis Ah, I actually had the same problem no too long ago. It took me until last year to save up for just a good enough computer. Good computers are expensive unfortunately :\

[@NathanDavisVideos]

What's next?... Would you rather have a USB cord plugged into your ass and you can live the rest of you life in a virtual CGI world similar to how the people in the Matrix films do?

[@DarthDravvid]

There are plenty of shopping centers in the city areas that are accessible by public transit.

[@Primalxbeast]

DarthDravvid Maybe in some big cities, but they did specifically reference the growth of suburban areas.

[@SuperRat420]

What? Vast sea of asphalt under harsh sun?

[@SuperRat420]

Then youve missed the point of the video

[@Friendship1nmillion]

DarthDravvid That's right. Also in Australia where I am what you call a shopping mall in Australia is called a shopping center. It's brand is "Westfield" and *Every* Australian knows it's creator of the franchise is Frank Lowy. 😉🏘🏣🚇🚍🚖

[@catmario9947]

DarthDravvid being introvert is boring

[@Sevenguitartrump]

We need a "third place" that doesn't solely revolve around commerce. Im reminded of the Roman forums

[@noahlenstra2503]

Sevenguitartrump public libraries. Public parks. Even churches. This video focused too heavily on commerce oriented third places

[@Sevenguitartrump]

Noah Lenstra while I agree about parks, where I live in a suburb there are not many of them and they aren't accessible sometimes in winter. Libraries aren't that bad except you can't talk in them... And churches have their own agenda beyond just hanging out and socializing. Tho I do think there are probably some that are more neutral than others.

[@noahlenstra2503]

Not sure how often you visit libraries, but in most public libraries you can definitely have conversations and meet and mingle. Maybe you just have a bad library near to you? I'd encourage you to stop by your local library. More likely than not you'll see plenty of conversations. See www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/21/millennials-are-the-most-likely-generation-of-americans-to-use-public-libraries/

[@noahlenstra2503]

"Previous Pew Research Center surveys have documented how extensively people use computers and internet connections at libraries, as well as how interested they are in extra services such as literacy programs for young children, meeting spaces for community groups, and technology “petting zoos” that provide opportunities to explore 3-D printers and other tech gadgetry."

[@rayherbst6655]

We had it after WWI and WWII: churches, fraternal clubs, Masons, Knights of Columbus, bars, women’s clubs, Scouting, etc. A little still happens with weekend kids soccer, traveling sports teams.

[@misaelramirez5236]

Anyone else who was young when the recession hit and now realizes its impact?

[@misaelramirez5236]

Same I was 9 my dad lost his job for all of a few months but I could tell something was wrong around me

[@JameZayer]

Dad lost his job when I was 13. Entire family went in a downward spiral into a shitshow between 13-16. Any teenage experience I mostly missed out on.

[@DavidRodriguez-ux5ye]

Misael Ramirez I was 7 and I realized what happened pretty fast I left all my activities outside school and we didn't go outside anymore during the weekends

[@hanichog]

Misael Ramirez

[@Sad-iced-coffee]

I was about 9 but we had to move into a much smaller house.

[@donyt4926]

As a Minnesotan, it’s cool the first shopping mall was in Minnesota. As a Minnesotan, it’s sad the first shopping mall was in Edina.

[@tompain2751]

The "Third place" is social media now! : (

[@GustavoGomes-nn5np]

Yeah if that continues say hi to diabetes and obesitie

[@paul2019.]

Thats 4th place

[@serafffffff]

TF is that comparison between malls and the national mall. I don't know where you live, but the mall near me has buses, taxes, and hella metros surrounding it; it has way longer hours than "8:30-5:30," is absolutely free, and has way to many places to socialize (i.e. huge courtyard garden, foundtains, playgrounds, cafes, library, etc.).

[@juki0h391]

indoor malls are a thing of the pass, people like outdoor malls now, with more nature, sunshine, etc

[@rebekatalebi8046]

How about snow, ice & rain.

[@Abellardo]

0:29 Had to pause the video to listen to Africa rq

[@CecilCeceRobert]

Abellard I made that edit they used. You can find it on my channel if you're interested.

[@elmotociclista9296]

How do you listen if it is paused?

[@swaglol2412]

In Georgia Our Malls are full every week

[@ProjectLifeCommand]

Most shopping malls are empty ghost towns now. I've seen them with so many removed businesses, that most lights and escalators will be kept off to save on electricity and they give the weird vibe of an end of the world feeling, like being in a zombie apocalypse. The low budget movie theaters in them will never shut down though, because millionaires own them and just keep them around for their own personal enjoyment and for the community. Last things that tend to go, are the businesses in the food courts. Over the past 10 years, shopping malls have become increasingly desperate for business, allowing anyone to rent dirt cheap business spaces to sell just about anything. Now they appear more like flea markets and thrift stores, with your occasional video shop/imported clothing/tanning bed/nail salon businesses in one business space ran by one person.

[@mohammedsarker5756]

convert failing malls into mixed-use commercial/residential property

[@dnomarsenoj7063]

Turn old malls into a unique hotel.

[@em.the.awful.waffle]

d'nomar senoj Good idea!

[@johnharrington1744]

I say keep them as third spaces, but update them for the 21st century so that they don't revolve around retail. bars, restaurants, cafes, music venues, clubs, parks, and pool halls all make great third spaces. who knows, maybe roller discos or arcades will even have a comeback.

[@a-g8692]

The problem of America is the way the cities are built.

[@mrbrainbob5320]

A-G this is a suburb problem not a city problem watch the video

[@a-g8692]

Thats the problem, suburbs should be part of the city, but they aren't integrated, they don't have commerce or services like in most parts of Europe for example.

[@godwindracing6056]

...because they’re built with rock ‘n’ roll ;) - Starship, 1985

[@75egcg]

My city isn’t so bad and our malls are doing fine.

[@pancakes6119]

A-G blame white flight

[@tuneandsmash9346]

I think one reason "third spaces" seem so transient and disposable in America is there's a lot of disconnect due to the country being so large for a scattered population of 330 million people who have not built like Europe and are happy driving long distances. It's kind of a bad deal for the average lower-middle class and working class person who was born and raised in the suburbs and requires so much extra money/cars/gas/time to go shopping or eat or socialize or work. This country is not pedestrian friendly, it's a pain to get around even with a car.

[@taekwondotime]

*There's a key point that people have forgotten: malls used to have more than just clothing stores* . The malls that will survive in the future are malls which offer the greatest variety in their stores and entertainment features, and of course malls located in colder climates (Canada for example) will always do well. When I was a kid, the mall used to have a bowling alley, pub, pet store, arcade, gym, etc..... Today it's nothing but women's clothing stores. Seriously. The mall has become the place to go if you want lingerie, high heels, and perfume. If you're looking for anything else, you're out of luck. Thus, when I go shopping, I shop at the big box stores likes Staples, Best Buy, Home Depot, etc. They have the things that I want.

[@SmilenWave23]

This video reminds about salons (not hair salons lol) but where people used to gather to exchange thoughts and ideas... I feel like these places help establish communities to connect people and help them feel like they belong... Maybe this lack of a quality 3rd shared space contributes to rising rates of depression and anxiety Idk maybe libraries could take on that role? Maybe it'd help if If they were cooler (no offense) just always room for improvement right?

[@paddyodoor3090]

I hate malls because your expected to buy something while your there. And I'm there like "I don't have any Money!!!"

[@catmario9947]

Lolz you can go to mall without buying something stupid

[@Illtempo-nz1de]

Paddy O'Door yeah.... you are obviously having some sort of personal mental issues which make you think that you have to buy something

[@OakenTome]

Illtempo 1980 Well when literally everything in a mall costs money, I don't think it's "personal mental problems" that make him people feel this way.

[@thebobsagetguy]

MegaCrasherMusic why would you go to a mall specifically to people watch

[@epbrown01]

@I'm Rick Harrison: Because there are girls there? It's why I went when I was a teen. The Mall CAN be a good third space for under-21s, but not all were. The food court made a good place to socialize and ours had an arcade (Aladdin's Castle) and a multiplex.

[@tieword]

Damn this made me realize that instead of walking around malls for awhile, me and my friends just starting hanging out at this cool bubble tea place and that's kinda the new spot.

[@gabyflores6344]

What about open air malls? You only talked about enclosed ones. Also you can walk to a mall (at least mine you can)

[@VeryLegitPerson]

Open air malls are doing well, especially if it is mixed space with apartments/townhouses. A lot of those malls are walkable but a lot of older malls aren't. My local mall is a mile from the nearest home, strange enough as that might sound. Just retail and highways and forest around mine, and a bunch of others in suburbs

[@shammydammy2610]

My nearest mall is 60 miles away. Not walking there.

[@NathanDavisVideos]

You know it's ironic because the very first malls (especially after the second World War) were all open-air. Now all the sudden they want to go back to that concept and think it's "an all-new thing"?! WHAT?!?! Can someone explain that to me?!!

[@ChestersonJack]

My nearest mall is about 45 minutes away by car

[@ketaminepoptarts]

um i dont think im just gonna walk 4 kilometers just to buy some shirts and maybe a book or cd

[@bmw803]

Suburbs "lacked quality"? THEN, EXPLAIN!!!! Why did people move to those suburbs IN MASSES. If the city centers were so good, why did they abandon them and moved out?? THEY HAD ENOUGH OF LOW QUALITY OF LIFE. Noise, dirt, ghettos, weirdos, traffic, crime and most of all SPACE. People moved to the suburbs to GET THE QUALITY OF LIFE, with a back yard, having their own house, peace and quiet and not being squeezed like sardines in a tight city environment.

[@vaagmikaelian9078]

"IN 1955 AMERICA HAD A PROBLEM" BRO, IN 1955 ALL HAD A PROBLEM!

[@OakenTome]

ASAP Gangsta Um... I doubt every single civilization had a major problem in 1955.

[@flyingdics1]

Um, every single civilization in history had at least one major problem at every point in time ever. Good luck finding any place or time when people were saying "everything's fine and nothing big is wrong!".

[@waylandjennings4073]

The statement was made in the context of telling the story, you dolt.

[@Video-Games-Are-Fun]

the 1% never has a problem.

[@Elenrai]

@@OakenTome Ration coupons were the norm in 1955 lol

[@kawaiidere1023]

I love the mall. They should’ve just paid to build a bike path over to it if they wanted teens to go there though

[@cafezo87934]

I love malls. walking around aka exercise, the personal one on one service and eating mall food. the best.

[@MelanyNoelle]

Vital Mark it depends on what you eat

[@Jenny-nq9xd]

I spent three hours at the mall yesterday just walking and window shopping I’m 20

[@RealChristopherRobin]

Jokes on you: I work at my home and my third place is the bathroom

[@mohammadaladham7721]

I bless the rains down in Africa

[@longdirtytoenails1076]

Mohammad Al Adham Now I gotta hear the rest...ttthanks for that.

[@SciencewithKatie]

Haha you can't hear the start of that song and not need to hear the rest 😂

[@CecilCeceRobert]

I made that edit they used. You can find it on my channel if you're interested.

[@JustFreddi]

Sooo... let's go to the mall everybody! Come on, Jessica, come on, Tori, - let's go to the mall you won't be sorry!

[@AvailableUsernameTed]

Lets go to the mall - today

[@JustNatax3]

Everybody come and play throw every last care away

[@joshou3759]

I cant survive without malls. Where can me and my squad laugh and play obnoxiously without getting arrested.

[@clueless_cutie]

Joshou Do what the local youth do around here. Hang out in the Walmart parking lot. Are you going to look like idiots? Yes. Are people going to assume that you're street trash? Yes. But if they ask, and you explain the issue of no good third place options. Maybe they'll learn something. And maybe someone will get the idea to actually build a hang out spot for young people.

[@joshou3759]

Anna L. Id rather not stay in a parking lot considering that theirs no arcade, movie place, stores, comic place, and we’ll probably just die of heat stroke. Also we don’t have walmart here.

[@johnWick-yq6je]

You are absolutely crt

[@mcp12300]

If you did it in a mall I'm fairly sure you could do it outside, or maybe at a community center or park.

[@johnWick-yq6je]

MC_P_123 pls sub me

[@delphinidin]

Public libraries are a great third space! (Even the library at our local high school has turned into a third space: the students are no longer required to be quiet there, they can talk, they can buy coffee...) And good public libraries are very invested in the community. You don't have to spend any money there, either!

[@GD15555]

I don’t have a smart phone. Sent from iPhone

[@mrsvoyage]

But you use youtube

[@gustavogutierrez2709]

I don’t even go to the mall anymore. All the stores there are designed for teenagers to spend their parents money, especially when the new school year starts.

[@doofusmcboofus5474]

lol

[@coolfuzzycats]

LOL sorry but your video doesn't apply to me.... I live next to the mall of America and on the weekends its always packed/hard to find parking. I don't think that mall will be closing anytime soon.

[@VeryLegitPerson]

yes, one of the largest, most well known malls in the world, that attracts people as a tourist destination, applies to all malls in the U.S. Not all malls are like that, or even close

[@corinnak.4875]

In Europe, malls exist but they are not as important in society. I was an exchange student in the US at 16 and remember being surprised how “going to the mall” was seen as a social activity (and not a necessity because you needed something)..

[@adelhaidiskemi5011]

Public spaces like parks, skating areas, or just bars, cafés and restaurants...

[@GUITARTIME2024]

Clara K. Bullshit. I lived 2 miles from a huge mall near Antwerp, BE. People went there just to hang out, wal around, etc.

[@blanco7726]

raleighman3000 I’m guessing that mall had a pool, a cinema, ice skating or similar stuff.

[@alcalimot139]

The Mall here in the Philippines never run’s out of people!

[@tavisbalkin4564]

This makes me realize what a great state California is for third places. Say what you will about the state, but we have beaches, video stores, malls, arcades, cafes, roller rinks, gardens, etc. None of that stuff disappeared.

[@cinnamon9390]

I liked the video! If I were to change anything, it'd be the energy/interest level of the narrator. He sounded just a bit like a 7th grader giving a history report

[@darexinfinity]

Pretty hypocritical of Vox to say that a Third place shouldn't require to spend money but recommends Coffee shops to be the next place.

[@ChestersonJack]

darexinfinity Eh, tons of local business in my town let you hang out even if you just use a napkin and that’s it

[@johnharrington1744]

most coffeeshops don't require you to buy anything to enter. even starbucks makes it part of their policy that anyone can enter.

[@itspricila]

I like shopping on malls than online

[@Friendship1nmillion]

pricila I like shopping both ways equally. I'm in Australia and I'm *Annoyed* when I'm Shopping on Amazon USA website and what I want to buy that I need for myself or someone else from Amazon I can't finalize the order with because *That* website can't send the item(s) to an Australian address. 😠💻💳

[@natsumi1120]

username1nmillion Maybe because that specific website is meant for American Consumers only? 😐🤦🏾‍♀️ Isn’t there like a International version? And you should know that going to the US version instead of the international one is not going to work if you don’t have a American address..... Just saying

[@Exoticbeauty015]

I like going to the mall. I hate having to wait, paying for shipping and when you have to return. I dont get why people love online shopping. Its a headache.

[@scarpfish]

In an alternative reality, where online commerce never came about, I'd predict much of current mall apocalypse would still happen. The places were simply overbuilt and the community demographics of where many malls were built changed for the worse.

[@PASH3227]

Why go to the mall when you can buy everything you need at Costco or Walmart??

[@sunshineimperials1600]

@@PASH3227 That’s the point actually.

[@DoktoreBlah]

It's interesting how essential music with plucked strings is to the atmosphere of most of Vox's videos

[@iesaia]

the real social interaction is when you meet people eye to eye, shaking their hand physically, listening to their voice directly. That's what makes us human.

[@ChestersonJack]

Joel Yes, because shaking a hand is a human form of greeting and not simply a cultural one

[@ChestersonJack]

Joel Seriously though, you can’t define “what makes us human” as simply as that. The hardest thinking philosophers still don’t know that.

[@Major_Mason]

The third place = Playstation 2

[@santania5785]

Playstation 4 old head

[@shammydammy2610]

The third place: Your favorite MMO

[@hassie6196]

If malls were going extinct in reality, you would NOT have places like Amazon buying places like Whole Foods. Malls are not going away, but malls that do not adapt to our changing world, will. Malls that allow for that special experience that online retailers could never give are going to be the malls that excel in this new era of shopping online. Whole Foods, for instance, has shoppers with something like $1000 of disposable income per month. That is a lot of money to spend on whatever they want, and those people want that experience of Whole Foods. The same is almost assuredly true for shoppers at other high end retailers, compared to the normal stores of their genre. High end clothing will probably be one of the biggest winners of these new types of malls. They do not have to sell online, and because you can only get their overpriced products at their brick and mortar locations, they can very easily be the new JC Penny and Sears, being that mall anchor store that brings people out to the mall, that specialty stores could never do, but need to stay alive.

[@MClashers]

Hassie Whole Foods is not a mall though

[@coraldiamond1922]

Hassie Here in the uk I have a whole foods market that was closed in a city near me and this is down to the fact that it was not making enough profit for amazon, it was making enough profit but not enough for the new ownership so sadly they closed it a while back.

[@hassie6196]

Yes that has happened in the US too. I am not trying to say that if you are a high end merchant, you are 100% safe. I am saying that you have a better chance if you offer an experience that people want, and cant get online

[@SoniaSephia]

A mall a place to purchase products; not a Social Hub. Socializing is secondary result not the primary purpose of a mall. And just because you have to drive to most malls does not mean it's a bad thing. Malls often have expensive products so it is not meant for low income people. And that is not a bad thing in and of itself. That is like saying expensive bars and restaurants are bad just because poor people cannot afford them. Spending money on overpriced items is a personal choice even for people who can afford that. *Where to socialize now?* Bar/Pub or restaurant or a friends house. Also socializing online sometimes works out better because you're often socializing on websites or apps that are already related to your interest. So you meet like-minded people.

[@ChestersonJack]

GalaxyEspeon Don’t drink, don’t have a pub, don’t have friends. I want fresh air, I’ll drive to the park. Screw this.

[@yuckluck2]

Support local businesses. Property taxes pay for more social spaces like libraries, parks, stadiums etc.

[@allmyfriendsaredead3107]

Malls just dont fit for the millenial or gen z’s. Personally, i dont find having to rummage through a crowd to buy something when i can just go on my my laptop and them on amazon, and next day ship it.

[@KORIGAN1]

A shirt at the MALL - $29.99 A shirt online - $6.99 with free shipping Saving money...

[@bhbluebird]

...and you don't have to deal with rude people and surly employees.

[@epsilonborealis]

It's so weird to hear from perspective of an European. In Warsaw where I live it's literally easier to get about everywhere, including shopping malls, by means of public transportation. I wouldn't want a car even if I was offered one for free, it would be more of a nuisance than anything else.

[@treebear8364]

It's the way European cities are built vs American. Most of the malls in my area are located in the suburbs. The best way to travel is by car instead of using other transportation services.

[@mrbrainbob5320]

Poland is a shithole

[@priya9194]

what happens if u buy too much stuffs? i mean won't it be tough to carry those stuffs in public transport? lol here in India people sometimes buy a month's whole grocery at once. they won't let u get on a bus with all those stuffs 🤣🤣 . but yeah its still the most imp transport.

[@RamiroR13]

Maxim Gwiazda That's an interesting perspective. Here in the Miami suburbs, you can't go anywhere without a car. I'm assuming in Europe you guys have city squares and places where people congregate which would be nice here.

[@steppebro]

In America, using public transport means you're in poverty... It's really not something to be proud of Then again it's Poland so basically the ghetto of Europe

[@zachz96]

There are malls that are reachable by walking and public transportation. Monroeville Mall has bus service, and South Hills Village has nearby light rail service. These two malls are in the suburbs of Pittsburgh, PA.

[@melancthon2542]

Outdoor malls are fine . . . as long as it isn’t pouring down rain, or pouring down snow, or scorching hot (like it is in many southern states half the year), or freezing cold (like it is in many northeast and midwest states half the year). Sometimes it’s nice to shop in a predictable climate (like an indoor mall) where it's warm in the winter and cool in the summer

[@Okayletsg0]

As an Australian this video is super interesting. My third place is a youth centre but I don’t think that represents other Australians well, here we hang out mostly in places that serve alcohol as the legal drinking age is younger and it’s a big part of the culture here

[@JameZayer]

Also in Australia, most of our "malls" are a bit of a hybrid between American malls and the National mall they have - as developers like Stockland or Westfield usually include integrated housing developments. Most are also strategically placed next to transit hubs and include large outdoor spaces. Edit: And yeah, most social spaces include pubs, RSLs and clubs as drinking is more widespread - which is why most newly built malls include space for nightclubs or other drinking spaces. "Gold Class" lounges in malls here also offer drinks as well.

[@glossygloss472]

I’m starting to get really tired of the “as a foreigner, this is really interesting” comments. Just talk about the video being interesting, no need to talk about your nationality.

[@steppebro]

Yes, we get it. All of you guys drink. We're all very impressed by your drinking.

[@94fleetwood49]

Been drinking since I was 14, so I don't understand *what's the big deal with "legal" drinking.....*

[@glossygloss472]

Partiban Anathurai Triggered

[@alexthecam]

"Technology will be the end of the human race" - Steven Hawking

[@colbymcd13]

idk what u mean but malls are lit

[@fermatachambersoloists]

The elephant in the room is car dependency. Change our car dependent society and this problem goes away…

[@empereuraugustus2346]

It feels weird to watch this with a European point of view… « Why would I need to go to a mall for socializing? I can just go to the city center » « Wait, they don’t have friendly city center for this »

[@CWM93]

I agree. It's also strange to see so many people in the comments falling into the false dichotomy of shopping online vs shopping in the mall, as if shops don't or can't exist along normal city streets. Most towns and cities in the UK have at least a few pedestrianised streets which act as a public space where there are shops and places to eat and drink (national chains and independent), but you don't actually have to buy anything to spend time there. Because they're truly public spaces, you can stay as long as you like if you're not doing anything illegal, whereas in malls private security guards can move you on for any reason if they don't like the look of you. Outside of larger town/city centres, most small towns and suburbs in the UK have at least a small High Street with a row of small shops, a post office, hair salon, pharmacy, and a cafe or takeaway. They're not always the best public spaces but they do at least exist, and are fairly resilient to changing trends and habits. I can't imagine living somewhere these things weren't really the norm and were so easily forgotten about.