What Andy Anderson and the Specialist Era Means to BATB 13 (New Format Needed)

[@Gentleman_of_Leisure]

"Andy is a flat ground specialist" is a funny take. He was found by George at a freestyle competition, went to the Olympics to skate bowls, and set the Tampa pro on fire doing the longest dark slide on a kinked rail I have ever seen.

[@bubbler9583]

I don’t think Andy Anderson is cool like you do…But I do agree he isn’t a Flatground specialist. He’s just a special boy who skates in a special way.

[@6feetunderpants]

​@@bubbler9583He didn't say that Andy is cool. Andy knows that he's not considered cool. He doesn't care about that. His skill speaks for him. He is not about skate'n'destroy as much as he is about skate'n'create. Kinda like Rodney.

[@bubbler9583]

@@6feetunderpants you Andy Anderson fans that like to compare him to Rodney Mullen on every video are soooo lame. If Andy Anderson is your idea of good stylish skateboarding you’re tripping homie.

[@nopenopenein8243]

@@6feetunderpants Andy clearly cared enough to start with a boneless just so he can look edgy....so yeah. Let's drop the whole "he doesn't care" act. He is an amazing skater for sure, but his fanbase is....yuck.

[@blueg3027]

​@bubbler9583 your insecurities are showing bud

[@Clipzandcatz]

I think BATB is so good because anybody can win due to the fact that it’s only one game. It’s like March Madness where the underdog has a chance because it’s only one game.

[@MisterIkkus]

I agree. I just prefer the "gentleman's game" where they start with the straight 8 n' all that. I like to see them prove their consistency before moving on to the wild stuff.

[@andrewashford5617]

It’s always subjective, it’s never the better man🤦🏽 Johns whole foot was off the board when he did the tre flip but they gave it to him anyways

[@Belsen432]

It's skateboarding, don't overthink it

[@itsnicetoseeyou]

​@Belsen432 we won't over think it, but the berrics will, because they're hell bent on making skateboarding as lucrative as possible

[@Olsenator]

I think it’s crazy how far this has come. I mean it started with the silly koston mike mo game. Then batb and es games of skate to now entire channels dedicated to analyzing BATB lol wild.

[@hofx666]

I wouldn’t say Jamie plowed through 12, Spencer Barton nearly had it. He should have been invited back

[@oisinmckellar3046]

I heard he was but Spencer declined for some reason.

[@ashleybrown4754]

John Chyks regular heelflip in that game is one of the best I’ve ever seen. Caught that shit on the way up.

[@RealSkateStories]

That thing was glorious.

[@damfunk.]

BATB has become a showcase for Berras stable of cariuma/scientologist flatground skaters. There’s only 3 people in the entire competition that take it seriously and that’s Jamie Griffin and Berras 2 minions Tyler Peterson n Cody Cepeda. At this point I hope Griffin takes it just to stick it to Berra. In fact I’d be happy to see anyone win it as long as they’re not wearing cariumas.

[@D3moliDor010]

Thais só true

[@veryfrozen3271]

woah who else is in scientology?? lemme find out is andy one too?? but i agree its more of a buissness show case then a real serious competetive tournament.

[@snowyrox3331]

forgot sewa, he's a serious flatground competitor

[@frozennorth3426]

@@veryfrozen3271 lol andy? no. not scientology. can you imagine him going in for free “auditing”?

[@veryfrozen3271]

@@frozennorth3426 only reason i assumed is he rides for powel peralta which is basicly uses demonic sigls as their logos as much as possible. really fits with the demonic cult vibes scientology has.

[@AB-rh5yq]

I don’t think I would say Andy Anderson is a “flat-ground specialist”. He skates basically everything. Street, vert, freestyle. I would say it’s more that he isn’t only doing traditional tricks. He is creative with his approach. I actually like it because it will change the progression away from the board simply flipping the board in more technical/obscure ways and towards a more creative progression. Also, they should have counted Andy’s last spinning loopy thing … no rules were broken, and how is that anything like a manual?

[@oisinmckellar3046]

For real it was allowed as a death blow yet Moterhead made a big stink about it.

[@ActorsReal2Reel]

I guess because it’s a humiliating trick to lose too because it’s more about board control and balance rather than a flip trick. Losing to a front foot impossible is understandable but losing to a one footed ground revert seems like you suck

[@BobWeaver3000]

it's b/c Bragg can't do 95% of the stuff AA does

[@debomb721]

His basic game is kinda inconsistent though, if he was on defense for a while and PJ Ladd was doing all the 180 flips (nollie bs flip etc) Andy would get letters

[@CaseyDarwin]

They've tried to write the rules to basically box the skaters into doing tricks that pop and flip. Ya know, 'real' tricks! 😬

[@t0rikatsuu]

Nice to see Ellis and Alex mentioned with Jamie, those dudes have some crazy tricks and could certainly do well in this kind of situation

[@zach3955]

Well in the case of ellis, although he’s a wizard, he is god awful at nollie and switch tricks. He admits this himself all the time. All you’d have to do is set basic switch and nollie tricks to beat him.

[@frozennorth3426]

@@zach3955 yeah. Ellis can do a 1080 quadruple tre of a launch if you give him a week, but he’s not ideal in games of skate (I still love what he does, but it’s not for BATB) alex on the other hand should have been in the last 3 seasons of BATB. he’s a killer.

[@correoparatodo4631]

They all from hop king hahah

[@Szymanskill]

Imagine trying to judge a game with Ellis in it, I'd be constantly rewinding video

[@nikosoundandlight]

I wouldn't mind the mano a mano style, where offense is changed at every turn . I don't think a best 2 of three would fly and games would be too long

[@joe.nail1]

Yes, would make each game more competitive without having to watch the same tricks 3 games in a row

[@joshuadansby2874]

@@joe.nail1 I don't think it will be the same if the loser of the first game gets to go first on second game.

[@frozennorth3426]

K/QoMACBA format, which also alternates, is excellent too.

[@HisBeverness]

This.

[@frozennorth3426]

It’s interesting to see Andy Anderson treated as a “specialist” when the whole point is that he’s a Generalist who’s proficient not only in the usual core BATB fare (apparently even more than Torey Pudwill) but also in all kinds of other flatground stuff And street And transition skating. Anderson may be the least specialist skater on the planet right now. Jamie, on the other hand, has to date been much more of a modern flatground specialist, which fans of BATB should love, since he’s at the extreme end of that kind of accomplishment. The crazy thing is that Rodney is the GOAT and primary originator of Both looks at flatground, as well as a solid chunk of technical street for that matter.

[@Naturalist1990]

🤡

[@JayJayAbels]

This is far more accurate.

[@theesquad4722]

If a best out of 3 format is implemented, perhaps we should also add a no repeat tricks between games. This will allow for non-specialist skaters to have a shot say their game 1 and 2 end in a tie and the specialist is starting game 3. This also benefits the viewers with not having to watch a repeat of one of the games.

[@mrburns805]

I know it’s blasphemy, but I think it would be a good idea if each skater gets to set one trick at a time. These guys are way too consistent and it’s much more fair to turn it over after each attempt. That’s how they do it in Brazil’s grinds and slides. It seems to work out great.

[@joe.nail1]

100%. Going first could still be an advantage, but not as significant. Winning rock paper scissors should not determine the outcome of the game!

[@nopenopenein8243]

That's not a bad idea but I think that then everybody is going to focus on just learning 10 incredibly hard tricks that can eliminate the other skater as fast as possible.

[@matthewkrellwitz8973]

Same for Mano A Mano. Seems to make everything fair.

[@173jaSon371]

Slides and Grinds is so much more entertaining and it isn't even close. Wish they had more contests

[@PretendGoose]

For 3 games, there would be much more exhaustion. This has been a factor before during just one game. Whether you can repeat tricks from previous games also need to be considered. Either way has issues: Can repeat issues - Repetitive to watch - Harder to keep track of what tricks have been done - Players could be defeated twice in a row by the same tricks. Cannot repeat issues - Players may run out of tricks and then spend many turns trying to learn new ones. - Will disadvantage players with only consistent fundamentals. An alternate rule change may be to keep it to one game but limit the number of offensive tricks in one turn. We used to limit it to 3. Maybe 5 would make sense in this tournament (so a player could be defeated from one offensive turn). Even only 1 trick has merits.

[@agi157]

Most of the complaints about BATB come down to it just not being a serious competition. The rules are ambiguous, sponsor influence and popularity is more important than getting the best skaters, the refs and some of the players don't take it seriously, and taping/uploads don't happen live and are posted for views. That's why we don't see things like "illegal move means a turnover" or a best-of 3 format. I think it's fine and fun to watch either way, but I don't understand why people get mad at it for being what it is (not saying this channel does that, mostly commenters).

[@Peter-yx6ob]

But a lot of people feel that it would be more fair and more entertaining if they fixed those problems that you mentioned ... especially given their viewership, why not make it into a more organized/structured league?

[@Badministrator]

@@Peter-yx6ob Real talk I doubt half the best guys would even want to participate if it turned into a megaserious competition. Berrics is inviting all kinds of people including people they know will take a competition super seriously and people they know will not give a shit. A lot of different kinds of people make a living at skateboarding. It's kind of funny to hear this argument when the culture of skateboarding has generally vilified people who were regarded as too serious and not focusing on style like Nyjah and Tony Hawk back in the day.

[@eyz-4]

@@Badministrator i think that it's already too serious as it is. to be more serious would make it unwatchable in my opinion. in the early years of batb i liked it because they were goofing around and shit. now it's all big production and promo's and fans freaking out over everything. once it got dedicated fans it got really corny. the fact that there's people out there who's sole interest in skateboarding is through games of skate and flatground makes me cringe.

[@173jaSon371]

@@Badministrator Huh? People vilify Tony Hawk?????? Since fuckin WHEN? Never heard that in my whole life honestly lol. And Nyjah has dropped more bangers than just about anyone. His style was a bit wonky when he was small but I think it improved dramatically once he was an older teenager, personally.

[@Marshydarshy]

My feeling on BatB is pretty simple: just own up to the fact that it's a competition for ollie variations only, and have the leader swap every round regardless of whether the trick is made or not. This gets rid of pretty much all ambiguity and makes BatB what it's clearly intended to be, a competition for top-level skaters to do extremely hard (but conventional) tricks in rapid succession, with both competitors getting the opportunity to set tricks. Pros aren't interested in longer games, fans aren't interested in longer games, and it's been over a decade of adding on rules to stop people from doing every trick that's not an ollie-based trick. This is what the competition is going to turn into, sooner or later.

[@joshuadansby2874]

Yes trick rotation can work as well

[@frozennorth3426]

That would completely change it into something else you wish it was more, but I doubt they care what you wish it was more. I do bet they like that you’re generating chatter about it though. Controversy = publicity :)

[@Marshydarshy]

@@frozennorth3426 I wish the competition was less restrictive rather than moreso, all I'm doing is extrapolating from what's already happened to it.

[@fulmetang]

I think the Andy Anderson and Torrey battle is the perfect example of why there should be a best of 3 format. They have completely different set of tricks so who ever goes first is pretty much guaranteed to win unless they get unlucky. Plus making skaters fly all the way down there for a 5 minute battle really makes no sense.

[@nopenopenein8243]

Yeah, like every amateur can obsess for a bunch of months over some obscure flip tricks and in the end if he is invited to BATB and wins the rock, paper, scissor, just throw them and win. This all makes for a pretty meh game.

[@173jaSon371]

@@nopenopenein8243 I miss the classic games with actual pros in them that didn't have some sort of big prize at stake and weren't worried about gaining more notoriety or IG followers if they won. Made for so much better of games instead of these people practicing flatground in a lab for 5 years to win 4 or 5 games of skate as fast as possible. I get why they do it, but it's so boring

[@bovedli]

DumbData they talked about u on 9club that you should make a SOTY video based on how many Thrasher ads and collabs each years SOTY had. To kind if try and quantify the Thrasher Soty bias. Please do that!!! Ty

[@fernandoreyes680]

I was laughing so hard watching the game. BATB has become such a joke these past few years and people act like it’s a super prestigious and important sporting event lol

[@eatassonthefirstdate]

bro did u see the bullshit tricks they let Andy get away with? this shit is staged from beginning to finals night. it's BEYOND obvious. watch when Cariuma riders play and see how lenient the judges are with bad calls on their behalf, it's disgusting. BERRA is the biggest piece of shit scab in our whole community

[@173jaSon371]

It got progressively worse by the 6th or 7th one and has been declining since.

[@King_of_Sofa]

I'm glad you called out Erik for his bad attitude towards Andy in that matchup. He was out of pocket on that

[@feral5404]

as an asshole who would prefer to watch a standard, fundamental flat ground completion between gentleman i actually appreciated how out of pocket he was

[@veryfrozen3271]

@@feral5404 He wasnt outta pocket everyone including andy knows how to play a normal game of skate and its not his first time in a competition setting. I feel andy just wanted to be a ballerina and show off. even more respect if they ride for the same team, hes not going easy on andy at all.

[@Rufusdos]

@@veryfrozen3271Andy was offering the robots a quick reminder that skateboarding isn’t about rules.

[@barbipudwillHD74]

​@veryfrozen3271 knew how to play a game if sk8? Then y did he take a ouch if rules. And y did he ask about paper Rick scissor.

[@oisinmckellar3046]

​@@veryfrozen3271if his death blow is allow on the death blow preview then it could of counted.

[@CaseyDarwin]

I think they should switch to the Mano a Mano format with offense switching on every turn regardless of a make or fall.

[@Spartan-301st]

This is my favorite part of Mano honestly. Instead of “make it take it” like in pickup basketball, you can prevent a run. Similarly, it’ll cut down on the endless basic kickflip and heel variations before the actual battle starts

[@mind0killer]

@@Spartan-301st "endless basic kickflip and heel variations before the actual battle starts" honestly one of my favorite parts of these battles. Seeing skilled skaters drop super clean basic tricks and slow ramp the difficulty. Seeing the defense go from solid to shaky but still landing as the difficulty ramps. I like that part better than offense throwing weird tricks that nobody practices for free letters.

[@jerichorejuso1825]

1:33 Andy's wet spot 💀

[@TheBlakus420]

"Wet spot" 😂

[@larmando7377]

I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks Erik Bragg is annoying. Like why is he in skateboarding?

[@TheBlakus420]

Anyone who thinks Shrimp Daddy is funny is probably annoying

[@StationaryRocketFlipChampion]

That guy screams douchebag

[@ashleybrown4754]

His cohost on that failed game show is his best contribution to skateboarding

[@JSBeats85]

I love all this agreement on how annoying Erik Bragg is.

[@oisinmckellar3046]

Never knew his name call him Motorhead lol or a more apt name for him would be motormouth 😂

[@patrickhanlon932]

I appreciate you showing that Ishod switch heelflip at the end of the video. Ishod is the best.

[@RKLS90]

2:20 the Spencer Barton clip of him landing the nollie hardflip but still turning over offense was a perfect clip to play in the background when talking about Andy getting another turn after doing a trick he knew wasn’t gonna be acceptable. Just like a courtroom, once a precedent has been set u look back on it to make decisions in all future cases

[@FREEM1ND]

What do we think about having a double elimination tournament? matchups like Sewa vs Jonny Giger and Koston vs Suciu to stay in the tournament and potentially make a run out of the bottom bracket towards the final would be wild.

[@frozennorth3426]

I’ve always thought DE would be great. The reason they won’t is the same as the reason they only do one 5-letter game and have horribly-seeded brackets: The entire concept is not to be the best possible competition. It’s to maximize business objectives in terms of berrics KPIs and berra’s business and social relationships. People act like they’re trying to throw a legit competition when they’re inviting sunny suljic and fashion instagrammers. It’s not a competition. It’s a berrics video series in the shape of a competition.

[@oisinmckellar3046]

Sunny is no slouch on a board he has decent flatground game.

[@fademusic1980]

i am still holding out hope for a zach doelling upset with chris cole zach doelling final

[@cjchavez19]

Yeessss!

[@iseeyourschwarz8973]

That'd be sick

[@Mac10Demarco]

I would love that. Don’t wanna see a dude who religiously practices flat ground tricks take it again.

[@nenhumnome4149]

Bring Alexander Rademaker to the specialist mix!

[@bleepbloopblahp]

Matt Tomasello too please.

[@gunpla_sk8]

Well this aged well after Andy got skunked 😂

[@dustykh]

Malto manual shit is when you combo a manual into a trick. Standalone manuals should absolutely count (ignoring the fact that a wet stop isn't a manual at all)

[@dustykh]

I don't remember what season it was, but it was definitely in the 1-6 timespan but somebody did a bluntslide and it was sick and also defended.

[@esaiaswalker8944]

Saying a wet stop doesn’t involve a Manual is wrong.

[@patrickhanlon932]

"(ignoring the fact that a wet stop isn't a manual at all)" THANK YOU!!!

[@yawg691]

@@dustykh LMAO I remember that but not who it was lol. I also remember someone ollied specifically 3 times as their trick. It was of course defended.

[@Naturalist1990]

Obviously you don’t skate. If someone did a flat ground manual in a game of skate I’d laugh them out of the park

[@tokumei99]

if skateboarding was made by excel

[@fr1200]

😂

[@NFace23]

Fellow competitors have reffed this tournament since its inauguration. But yea this whole game was awkward

[@elliotcoolguy4301]

Bragg was right about Andy’s “death blow”. Every skateboarder knows what the rules are for a general game of flat ground skate

[@veryfrozen3271]

I agree im so happy he called Andy out. that match was the most painfull i ever seen from BATB

[@frozennorth3426]

Apparently the berrics didn’t know because he gave them full disclosure and they liked it so much they put it in a video.

[@elliotcoolguy4301]

@@frozennorth3426 that was for views. Everyone in the contest so far has had a death blow video but there is an etiquette to flat ground skate and doing one foot power slides just isn’t it

[@oisinmckellar3046]

They why did they allow his trick to be posted in a death blow preview? Seems a bit stupid to allow it in the death blow preview then do a 180 and no allow it in the game.

[@frozennorth3426]

@@elliotcoolguy4301 etiquette? lol competition is competition, and nobody asked for an etiquette competition. the concept of a competition is to win within the rules. is it “dirty” to only skate switch when that’s your opponent’s weakness? I don’t care. if you want a rule then make one. is it “dirty” to do “circus tricks” like late flips, double flips, body varials, pressure flips, etc? I don’t care. If you want a rule, make one. the rules shape the sport. it’s the same in all sports. the rules are set and then the play evolves accordingly. in all other sports, etiquette isn’t about how you win Within the rules, it’s about interpersonal conduct other than the actual game play. so if anyone has a beef with pressure flips, late flips, or anything else Legal, their beef is with the people who decide on bad rules …not competitors instructed to win within them. but etiquette? it’s called skate your best and be a nice guy besides, I bet Torey coulda made either of those tricks :)

[@erickvasquez001]

Plz help. The rules say nothing about power slides right???? 🎉🎉 they just hating on andy

[@joshuadansby2874]

but that was a double powerslide

[@claysoggyfries]

Damn I didn’t even realize that he wasn’t a ref 😂

[@villiantwo]

i wear baggy jeans. but TJs pants MC Hammer pants look ridiculous.

[@bobDotJS]

I love Jeff Dechesere (however you say his name) but I don't think he's super dynamic outside of hardflips, inward heelflips, pressure flips, and kickflips. Mad props to him, he's excellent but I'd be surprised if he held his own at BATB.

[@gladman9634]

Yeah but nah, Andy is not a specialist skater; in fact he’s probably one of the more diverse skaters in the pro scene currently where he competes in transition skating, regularly competes and showcases freestyle skating even in his transition skating and has a lot of footage just casually skating rails and ledges.

[@felixlang2118]

I kinda love how even in what you classify as the "specialist era" (which I agree we're witnessing) there are still these lengthy T-to-T gentlemen's games like Cole vs. Suciu :)

[@StoneAquatics]

Erick ruined that game of skate to be honest why even have a judge if a random dude on the side gets to decide the fate just cause he’s holding the paper

[@Colaishons]

sean malto also landaded a "front foot impossible" on defense agains Cookie, even tho it looks more like a front 3 shuv

[@kingzulwarn6053]

Seeing people like Andy and Jamie in BATB has been a much needed game changer. The whole problem with BATB from the get-go was the rules and how they never foresaw the growth, flexibility, or ability for skateboarders to do NBD tricks. For the longest time, the way to play skate was just to do every "basic trick" normally, switch, fakie, and nollie. Lots of current skaters are groomed by the BATB and SLS formats because rules were made by pros from the previous generation that heavily influenced the way skateboarding is seen now. We live in a generation where you can't have a game of SKATE with people at a skatepark without someone saying "Berrics rules" just because someone doesn't want to handle a boneless or something creative. More people like Jamie will keep appearing and eventually BATB will be nothing but those level of skaters competing against each other. It's already being shown in street and park contests how much the new generation is coming into play.

[@tye829]

I'm happy to see tricks like ff impossible, underflips and such this year. It has gotten bland like you said... But the rules need to stay imo. Skaters have gotten more creative this year while staying within the rules and that's good.... Without the rules though... there are too many possibilities in skating and almost every game will be determined by whoever goes first. It will turn into a rocks-paper-scissors tournament. Most professionals will be able to come up with five strange tricks that they can practice and get on lock, and no one else will be able to do them or has even thought of them. Videos of full-park contests and weird tricks are all over the internet, but BATB should stay what it is. A classic game of skate tournament, strict rules, it's a niche within skating. It doesn't need to be about creativity and all-encompassing everything else that skating is. It's fine for BATB to just be what it is.

[@bubbler9583]

A boneless or a finger flip is not an example of creative skateboarding

[@nopenopenein8243]

A "boneless" is not something that creative - just a trick for a different competition. BATB has some super simple rules that the rest of the skaters in the previous 12 seasons seem to get without a problem. I don't think that it is such a big and interesting progression to watch somebody throw a trick that literally nobody ever really cared about learning. If this is progression then we can invite a bunch of flatground obsessed youtube skaters and watch them eliminate each other after 10 turns since everybody is just going to land his obscure edgy trick that he spend weeks learning only because nobody else will do it. BATB was always about amazing streetskaters actually skating out of their element - on flatground.

[@eatassonthefirstdate]

boneless and 🌈 finger flips are lame as fck dude. Andy is the most over rated dude of the 2020s, bar none. I've laughed at him since the first time I saw him. he thinks he's the love child of Rodney and Natas and he looks like he has downs😅 and his ego has grown way too big I bet dudes a virgin😅

[@LeSkateWA]

Where would the line be drawn on creativity then? You could throw your board across the room and land on it and thats a trick? You need to have rules or else its going to become anything counts and people just doing weird shit that noone else does in order to win. They say no freestyle or grabs or manuals for a reason, and thats exactly what Andy does.

[@Taylor.Salway]

Mike mos name still in stats like the front foot impossible being the only one done of defense makes me smile! Some names shouldn’t fade for awhile but is hard nowadays with how fast the skill has moved

[@tinss619]

I think it would be cool if you land 3 tricks in a row, then turn switches over to the other person no matter what, regardless if you get a letter. That way both people feel like the battle can be swayed by the influence of their own unique tricks. Also more people would be enticed to use their "death blow" that way they could maybe squeak out a letter on the 3rd trick.

[@Andry_]

SLVSH, the freestyle skiing equivalent of BATB use a rule called the "Trivia Crack Rule" which is really good to make the games more fair: If the first skier scores 3 letters without missing any trick, than the set goes to the other skier. If the second skier also score three letters without missing any trick, the set goes back to the first skier. This rule makes sure each skier got at least one chance to land his offensive trick!

[@ramseyaaronr]

Actually I felt like Erik Bragg and the refs were correct in their calls about Andy’s goofy tricks. The spinny trick was like a one footed 360 revert. The rules don’t say anything about reverts but it is generally understood that a revert is not a trick because the board never leaves the ground and mostly just slides. Besides, the rules say “it will ultimately be decided by the referees.” It’s impossible to write EVERYTHING in the rules, so the refs have to use their own judgement sometimes.

[@oisinmckellar3046]

Technical then no revert trick should count ie pop shove revert, 360 fip revert, hard flip revert ect. Or pressure flip ect.

[@watchmesquatch]

​@@oisinmckellar3046The difference is those tricks leave the ground before the revert.

[@ramseyaaronr]

@@oisinmckellar3046 No... because technically those are actual tricks WITH a revert as part of the trick. Andy's maneuver was JUST a revert-no pop, not a trick. Big difference. You have to actually pop tricks and send the board into the air rather than it sliding on the ground the whole time. Andy's "trick" or maneuver was like 90% revert the board never popped and it hardly left the ground. You can't just strip a trick down to it's parts and say "oh well that trick has a revert, so technically it's not a trick..." No dude, it's still a trick. Adding a revert doesn't suddenly make it not a trick!

[@173jaSon371]

@@oisinmckellar3046 Your board leaves the ground on those tricks. You're being obtuse intentionally here( I would hope at least).

[@nenhumnome4149]

How dare you not showing the front foot impossible on fullscreen

[@frandeep]

Great analysis.

[@dumbdata34]

Thank you 🫡

[@naggyboo7644]

The early Es game of skate tournaments from the 00's actually had a proper set of rules. I cant remember them all exactly or find them online now but some examples were: - tricks all start with 4 wheels rolling then board and skater must both be airborne and end with 4 wheels rolling with no manuals, primos, caspers, truckstands in between. - no feet or hands touch the ground. - no hands allowed to touch the board. - tricks cannot be repeated once landed. - no one-foot or cross-foot landings. Also they didn't have the 2 tries for last trick rule for many years.

[@nopenopenein8243]

I can still imagine Andy throwing a boneless because he knows that his fans are going to be like "OMG ANDY IS SO CREATIVE HE DOESNT CARE ABOUT THE RULES". It also seems like the rest of the hundreds skaters in the previous 12 seasons had no problem understanding the BATB rules. It was just Andy trying to be edgy.

[@173jaSon371]

@@nopenopenein8243 He reminds me of one of the dorky 13-15 year olds that would constantly be at my local skatepark, sitting on their incredibly expensive BMX bikes that they could hardly even ride up a ramp on. They would basically sit there and throw food at each other that they bought with their parents money and get in the way of people actually riding lol. He looks just like one of them.

[@dobeeeeval]

My opinion on skunk games is that the skunked player should have an opportunity to reverse skunk their opponent. If they miss a single trick on offense then the match is immediately called. If they can pull off the reverse skunk then the match goes to sudden death where players alternate setting and responding to tricks.

[@nopenopenein8243]

Yeah - i've seen turns shift after you get 3 letters in a row. .

[@dumbdata34]

Agreed

[@zcddrew]

Well Andy's weakness seems to be just standard flip tricks...

[@MrLeeStories]

Andy has some unique tricks. If he sticks to the rules and keeps those unique tricks coming. He could win.

[@frozennorth3426]

It’s this simple. I just can’t comprehend what all the crying is about.

[@frozennorth3426]

@@curbscurbs yep. 100%. people up in arms about the joke and the death blow (which I still think was plausibly fine) because they don’t want to remember that Andy bet Torey at Torey’s game, with bread-and-butter BATB tricks. I felt bad for Torey bringing such a poor showing, but he and I have to accept that that’s on him. I still think his game vs Malto in the previous BATB was one of the greatest and most inspiring games of skate ever. Their consistency deep into technical territory was almost unprecedented. For the first time this year I drew up bracket progression predictions all the way through, and I had both of those guys lasting a while based on that. Torey just had a bad day. Maybe he hasn’t been skating as much now that he completed his old-timer video part last year, or maybe he had dysentery for all I know. Regardless, Andy was better at technical skateboarding and won properly. Also, the rules are the damn rules. When someone finds a loophole or something sneaky in football or baseball, they get in “1000 IQ” highlight rules and everyone laughs at the other team for getting what they deserve. Figure skaters and gymnasts do whatever they want within the rules. Only skaters look at competitions and lift their nose and say “winning that way wasn’t very polite. it’s mean to expect someone to be good at That legal thing, when everyone knows most people are more comfortable with Other things”. That’s what people used to say about Rodney Mullen and Tony Hawk when they were busy inventing new shit every week and then winning competitions on the weekends. I’d say “How far we’ve fallen…” but some things never change :/

[@frozennorth3426]

@@curbscurbs it’s like they think skateboarding got to where it is and everywhere it’s been by trying to think of the fewest possible things to do with a piece of wood with wheels bolted to it

[@joelgaul6869]

why was jeffwonsong's name cut off in the audio

[@frozennorth3426]

because he’s a curse on the whole of skateboarding. he’s the scab you want to pick off, but know it’s probably just better to wait out

[@danludlam1562]

Good shout regarding Jamie's colleagues at Hop King. I was surprised, considering how well Jamie did in his first BATB last year that they didn't invite Alex Decunha who already has publicly available wins over Jamie.

[@technolange651]

And Decunha skates for Cariuma.

[@danludlam1562]

@@technolange651 I did not know that. Even more surprising then

[@oisinmckellar3046]

Hopking has some made flatground skaters alright

[@doctafill77]

It really doesn't make sense. He's very skilled and has a fun personality. The only thing I can think is that they were worried it would look like they stacked the brackets against the non-Cariuma pros.

[@coachpete327]

I couldn’t agree with you more. I’ve been suggesting a 3 game battle for years. It will reduce the variance

[@torbjornenglund6868]

Or maybe just play like we always played game of skate before berrics made this rules. We took turns on offense. Then the rock-paper thing doesnt decide the outcome

[@QuakeNukem]

Torey looked annoyed

[@RobertRamirez]

I think you could see Andy was just as confused when he filmed an entire little segment before their match where he describes and executes his Death Blow just for an hour or so later (or whenever they filmed the actual game) that he was then denied the trick. So stupid. I hope Andy just goes in hard to get to the end. Prove to them that he can just win.

[@theskateboardfan]

That manual trick Andy wanted to use is not legal. Manual variations are not legal. The old school kick flip was already ridicule and really anyone should be able to do it.

[@theskateboardfan]

Manual tricks are not allowed. So I didn’t like them even letting Andy submit it as his death blow.

[@Naturalist1990]

🤡

[@RobertRamirez]

@@theskateboardfan They could have told Andy, you can't use that in a game so let's not waste all the time and effort to make a Death Blow video on it. It was almost more cruel to us than it was to Andy.

[@mclarensaleenf7]

@RobertRamirez They apparently film the death blows like an hour before the match with a filmer only. So no judges to say it’s illegal but come on, he’s a pro skater so he should know it’s illegal. He’s pretty lucky they didn’t change turns for the illegal tricks because they really should count as a bail. I’d say do it once get a warning, twice and you lose your set.

[@Diispaceyone]

The last few years of batb has just felt off to me.

[@The_Sunset_King]

I predict that Andy Anderson will 1000% be the only skater to ever have or ever will wear a helmet in a BATB game of skate

[@colbythom223]

I love that Andy wears a helmet. Changing the stigma around it!

[@dsrree]

Mike V and Tyler Peterson both wore helmets in last year's BATB when they played each other.

[@oisinmckellar3046]

​@@dsrreeMike v is a lot older and has abused his head when he was younger and Tyler was being a jack ass by teasing him for using one.

[@jthrash9081]

The only problem I have with 2 out of 3 is finals night the skaters would be exhausted before they reach 6 games

[@joshuadansby2874]

Maybe if they keep playing ALL gentleman's games it would get exhausting. I think the strategies of all games will change if the 2 out of 3 setup is implemented.

[@oisinmckellar3046]

Let's say the average game of skate is 10 min 15 max that less between 1hr and 1.5 hrs in total They are fit young people that nothing to them sure most skateboarders including non professional will spend hrs on a single trick with out any breaks. Skating fat for long periods out time is all about good cardio which everyone in this tournament has. Skater are highly athletic don't let their laid back stoner persona fool you.

[@SeeSawMassacre]

They keep needing to add more rules, because people don't act like gentlemen.

[@RobL350]

TJ's been doing that adjusting of his pants before tricks for years, part of his style

[@Osiris3657]

Steve should hire you to manage and organize the tournament

[@oisinmckellar3046]

I don't think dumb data would get along with Steve lol I heard Berra is an awful person to work with.

[@davidknutty]

I think Andy Anderson is gonna do fairly well in this tournament, especially if he's good at rock, paper scissors. He's got tricks up his sleeve that nobody has even heard of like the old school heel flip for example

[@ZachDoelling]

That match was weird to “ref” kinda nailed it with your video.

[@jokerzyo]

I have to agree with that call on the weird malto manual shit not counting but I also agree it should have changed skater tho

[@felixgv]

There are other ways to make the game more fair without doing a best 2 out of 3. An idea I had was that if you defend successfully three times, then you gain offensive control. This would incentivize doing harder tricks sooner, which the skater with offensive control likely has more chances to miss as well.

[@freedomcaller]

Im annoyed by people complaining about the Andy match, yes the doomer short game skunk happened, but torey got letter on a bunch of regular tricks, so it wasnt like andy 5 trick skunked him with pure weirdness.

[@iseeyourschwarz8973]

Miss a tre at this level you deserve to lose

[@oisinmckellar3046]

​@@iseeyourschwarz8973didn't John miss a kick flip in his game and still took the W.

[@lancelovecraft5913]

What can I say the kids love andy. If berra was smart he would find a way to keep him in as long as possible for views

[@TheSteamboatInnTX]

bring the 2/3 tho i feel like ppl r gonna complain about how long the games r

[@ryandimitri5783]

Yo dumb data, I love your nerdy statistic content!! I just want to mention before you upload this weekends battle statistics that the judge in the Joslin battle was probably one of the better, fair and most consistent judge ever I believe!! But in the rules it states "offensive toe drag gets one do-over" and Joslin definitely took two do-overs before the ref could call anything and it was allowed to slide - dont forget to mention that haha

[@LBastone]

I miss PJ Ladd in BATB

[@RandomCeltic]

The paradox with a game of skate is that yes while you want to win. You kinda also want to do tricks that your opponent can land, that's the fun in it. Getting skunked isn't fun( or fun to watch) and skunking someone isn't fun either. This is really the first season where you are seeing a lot of people just go for the throat immediately. Normally the soft rules of skate dictate that you get all the basics out the way then once nothing is left you start getting circusy.

[@klement1337]

Extra rule : if the defense succeed the death blow trick of his opponent, he wins a third chance at his letter E.

[@kailynx2295]

Playing roshambo for set in the third game of a best 2 of 3 is such a dumb idea but shifting to best 2 of 3 in general could be cool, although I feel like by the end of a 3 game match between 2 highly skilled skaters would be more decided by fatigue than skill

[@leooosk]

The 2 out of 3 format is a win win option for the audience and the berries, but a lose option for the skaters. Game of skates are fucking exhausting sometimes, having 3 matches in a row is deadly if you put a guys like pj Ladd and prod against each other. This game just went this way, Andy won square and fair.

[@TheArchersTungsten]

You should do some data on the rising or diminishing of popularity due to poor decisions by the organizers.

[@dakotasir9849]

Data are you so convinced that this game is rigged now? You talk about Tyler Peterson winning like it's a foregone conclusion, but even if they were boosting in through the preliminary rounds he still has to perform live on final tonight.

[@cesarg4328]

I actually like that best out of 3 format.

[@Tryingtogetradical]

I don’t understand why they let him film an entire Death Blow just to say he can’t do that. Soon as I watched the death blow I thought “isn’t that just a manual?”

[@Juliano_DJOL]

Those Mike Mo Front Foot Impossibles are just different because yeah he actually jumps or something...

[@FreEntity]

Andy does them all the time, 50-50, 5-0 or smith grind to front foot impossible. I don't think anyone else has them so much on lock as he does.

[@BurtReynoldss]

Keep this editing going its so good lol

[@FrontFeeble]

Yeah if they don’t make or change some rules, someone is making bad decisions.

[@RKLS90]

I’m gonna be pissed if Andy beats Nick. Andy plays dirty and even tho he does tricks no one else can they just aren’t as enjoyable to watch like Jamie or Johnny. Like most people I used to watch every MAJER video and wanna see Nick go to finals.

[@NVRMNDDUB]

I do enjoy a proper gentleman's game! And think you might have a point here. maybe only the first rounds and semis and finals only one.

[@RKLS90]

8:08 as gung-ho as Tyler is about BATB u gotta wonder if it was a conscious choice to move into a place so close to the Berrics. I mean BATB is really the only reason the majority of us know this dudes name.

[@173jaSon371]

To be fair, that goes for a LOT of skaters. Cody Cepeda? Sewa Kroetkov? Jamie Griffin is only known from this and social media. Nick Holt, Chris Chann, a number of guys. Donovan Strain for the OGs

[@bagpipesnbread]

TJ definetel;y threw the game. diddnt even pull out the triple flip

[@veryfrozen3271]

I was thinking that too. he had John at T and was very braggy in the pre match video saying he can do trippleflips allways on the spot. Eitherway im glad John won I hope he gets far but Im not sure how consistant he is.

[@mitkogeorgiev9643]

Berra asking you to ref the final will be awesome af!!!

[@rmriwatch]

My theory is we are entering the era of skateboarding where the tricks are not developed on full skateboards, but only on decks in a stationary manner and later upgraded to actual skateboards with wheels and trucks. I don’t think half of what Jamie does is possible without his shack experiments.

[@173jaSon371]

Most of his tricks have been done by other people, haven't they? Plenty of others have done stuff like hardflip late flip or 360 flip late flip. I saw a random youtube short of someone doing a switch backfoot fs flip the other day lol. Jamie just happens to upload constantly and have a huge following. I remember an old youtube skater called "RobbySkateboard' I think that did all sorts of weird ass tricks in the dawn of youtube

[@demian1173]

Love your content dude, BATB should be forever Joe"s vs Pro's edition. Lighthearted, fun, just skating.

[@memorysometimers3067]

The beginning match ups looked like quarter finals. Gotta build up to the climax not just deliver it first round.

[@toddsimone7182]

I really like the 3 game format idea. If nothing else it should at the very least be used in the championship battle but I don't see any reason why every game shouldn't do it.

[@Peter-yx6ob]

What percent of the time does the person that goes first end up winning? In other words what is the conditional probability of winning the whole match given winning the rock paper scissors. It would be interesting to see how big the advantage is.

[@SolucionesELP]

I Think it must be a rule if you make an ilegal trick you lost your offesnsive

[@theskateboardfan]

Manual tricks are not allowed. So I didn’t like them even letting Andy submit it as his death blow.

[@andrewashford5617]

Zach definitely has the hardest road ahead of him

[@ethanfulton9659]

You are 100% right on this one. I just want a gentleman’s game!!!

[@frozennorth3426]

that’s a nonsense construct skaters made up to pretend they’re above competition even amid competition name any other civilized sport where “gentlemanly” behavior means giving your opponent as much chance as possible to make you lose competition is competition. we’re not filming a video part. we’re here to win. it’s a different kind of activity, which requires a different kind of spectator appreciation trying to find a “best of both worlds” only leads to weird and vague unwritten standards that different people feel obligated to compromise for in different ways. that’s nonsense tell them the objective and rules, and let them try to accomplish it if there’s some other thing that’s Also required, then write it down and tell them that too but none of this “he won, but he did it the wrong way because he Made the other guy lose” bullshit. that doesn’t even make sense

[@ethanfulton9659]

@@frozennorth3426 No there is actually something to starting with the basics and working your way up. That’s why Jah and Prods battle was so good. It’s is also why Chris Cole and Marks battle was good. When you start the match doing only 720 late double flips you are going to win!!! To be fair I am grateful I even get to watch BATB.

[@professorwolverinebeardsan470]

Hmm I don't think battle at the berrics is supposed to be a "best game of skate skater in the world", nor should it be. We don't want to see "kickflip 360 body variable land cross legged" and stuff like that every trick. I think maybe if the defensive skater has letter T and hasn't gotten to set a trick yet they should consider doing an automatic turnover. If the previous defensive skater then gets the previous offensive skater to T without there being a turnover, it should turnover again. Another option is: once a skater has T they alternate setting tricks every turn.

[@elliottwoods5636]

are we not supposed to talk about Jeff Deche-

[@frozennorth3426]

I laughed

[@Bobbysk8salot]

Been waiting for this!

[@michaellevy6628]

I didn't understand if saying on the front foot impossible ridiculous meant good or bad