What are the classes of Vox Machina?

[@Babbling_Wizard]

Pike spams shield of faith

[@scottcampbell9515]

Vex can be a Ranger without visible magic. Rangers are not full casters like Druids, or Wizards, so in this particular instance she may not have been able to help open the portal. Also Hunter's Mark could be viewed as something where she simply needs to concentrate to deal the extra damage. There have been a few instances in the show where she is seen holding her shot which could indicate her target has Hunter's Mark. Just because a video game indicates Hunter's Mark with some glowing indicator does not mean this show should too.

[@Just.Westin]

@@scottcampbell9515 I do agree with most of the stuff you've said. My video is being picky and snarky on purpose after all. One part I don't agree on is the portal. Kima is definitely a Paladin, which mechanically has the same amount of magic / spell slots as rangers (in DND.) So the fact she was able to help open the portal shows that half-casters can do it. But Vex isn't a spell caster.

[@scottcampbell9515]

@@Just.Westin Kima could be multiclassed in Cleric. We don't know because she's an NPC, and thus the DM can hand wave things to progress the story in a fair way if needed. The Everlight could have also offered assistance to Kima in that moment (which would be a DM inspiration, and also on an NPC thus the hand wavyness of it). ...also Rangers who don't cast spells is not that uncommon. They are still Rangers.

[@Just.Westin]

@@scottcampbell9515 And Vex could be a fighter.

[@undeathghost5627]

@@Just.Westin For what it is worth, Canonically if we're looking at the original campaign Vex ends up being a multiclassed Ranger/Rogue. Looking back at the show (which is what your video addresses afterall), it's clear they were leaning into this vision long term. Shes clearly setup to have a similar skillset to Vax that is more focused on archery and cooperative tactics (with vax, trinket, and later other characters turning her into the leader role) I support your arguement that she isn't the "wizards of the coast" ranger fully as she does seem to have dropped all spellcasting (Which she did have in the campaign) and we got "some of it" back with her bow being "Exagerrated" in the show (this happened with all vestiges except arguably The Deathwalkers Ward [vax's] which actually just is that crazy.) That being said, ranger is the "Worst" designed class in 5e and many versions of it drop spellcasting in favor of combat manuever type mechanics, wilderness mechanics, or pet mechanics (or some mish-mash of these depending on the homebrew) which it seems like they went for the "combat manuever" approach for Vex in the show. Which... honestly just lines up with her characterization from the campaign better anyway. Unrelated to Vex but to the video: I didn't really think about it but your argument for Pike being turned into a paladin is very compelling. Honestly it's probably what Ashley would have wanted to be if they hadn't been brand new to it all at the time! The way she played Pike was very "Paladin" so it makes sense that she comes across this way. Scanlan is definitely still just a bard. Just because they don't make the "Bardic Inspiration" look "magical" doesn't mean it isnt happening. Not to mention that everyone in the party consistently performs everything better when he is playing music (whether that is fighting or some sort of skill challenges). Example proof: Season 1 when they are stuck in the acid trap. Season 2 when fighting Kevdak + Clan. etc. The list goes on but it is consistent that when the music is playing Vox Machina performs better. This is likely their way of showing "Bardic Inspiration". Also doubles as the shows backtrack so that's a cool way to meta-joke the "music backtrack when things are about to get epic" stigma.

[@callmev3531]

@@scottcampbell9515 , For this animated continuity at least, it seems to some degree, titles like Paladin and Cleric have more to do with their profession and station than strict capabilities, though Clerics seem to still have more uses of their powers than Paladin's either way. Also of note, Kima being able to her powers to help with the rift despite her saying it wasn't her "forte" suggests that despite there being different types of mages, they all can use their powers in more generalized ways not bound by specific effects and structured spells, like lending their energy aid a affect like opening a portal (or closing one, as shown when both Kima and Allura were aiding in closing the Fire Plane rift).

[@Kantilvih]

Scanlan is a bard but doenst use his inspiration on others often. Sword bard?

[@Just.Westin]

@@Kantilvih that sounds good to me. Sword Bard

[@callmev3531]

The only notable feat Scanlan performs akin to the Inspiration effect that I can recall is his "We All Rage" song during the Herd Of Storms fight.

[@Kantilvih]

@callmev3531 scanlan does plenty of notable stuff. He just doesn't "inspire" since it is a nebulous concept and doesn't translate to non gaming as a resource. For example He soloed that distraction house in whiterun,He destroyed orthanks vessel. He is great but let's the cast shine.

[@activekiwi1221]

That might me it. Works great when you think about his vestige Mythcarver. It's a god-damn sword and he actually (sometimes) uses it to slice up things

[@callmev3531]

@@Kantilvih Sorry, that was a writing error on my part. I meant to say the only notable feat "akin to the Inspiration effect" that he performs. Besides that, he mostly uses his energy hand (which is just Bigby's Hand), physical illusions, the items he used to Blink, the scroll incantation he used to Polymorph and of course, his crotch lightning.

[@danielwolfe1587]

1:45 rangers and media often aren't portrayed as spellcasters

[@Just.Westin]

@@danielwolfe1587 correct. I was going on what class they would be in dungeons and dragons. My fault. The premise isn't super duper clear.

[@dean0730]

You’re confusing the job ranger with the dnd class. Lots of people think of characters that would be rouges or fighters in dnd but she specifically is a class that has magic.

[@danielwolfe1587]

@@dean0730 Fairly certain DND didn't come up with the idea of a ranger, but oftentimes in media characters that would suit the role of a ranger are portrayed as so skilled it borders on magic, this is why so many people flavor their ranger spells as non magical

[@matheusfiorelli8829]

5:38 "Scanlan never uses Bardic Inspiration"..... cut to the fight with Kevdak where he literally starts a Rock Concert to give his friends the sickiest soundtrack for their fight and boost their morale if that aint BARDIC INSPIRATION i dont what is :V

[@Just.Westin]

@@matheusfiorelli8829 some others have pointed that out as well. That's something I actually missed / forgot about. I am the fool for missing that. IT WAS SO SICK! That moment and the acid trap in season 1

[@Finalplayer14]

I know this is a bit of a meme video (Super fun btw! love the chaos) but I do at least want to point out: Vex does have one consistant showing of magic and that is her ability to sense Dragons, its a refrence to the Primeval Awareness feature from the Ranger. Which is better than nothing! Pike is a Cleric (War) for sure..ish. So the show does a good job imo at showing the differences between a Paladin like Kima (and Vax) vs a War Cleric like Pike. Kima (and Vax) specifically uses physical weapons and can empower them with sparks of divine magic whereas Pike and Kashaw are actively summoning divine weapons like morningstars and spears to fight their foes while also being able to summon divine shields or in Pike's case also summon her armor. They can pray directly to their god and bring down massive blasts of radiant magic. They can both heal people, etc. Pike does all of this pretty well. Her not knowing the full scope of what a Cleric can do doesn't stop her from being a Cleric. Where I personally think you could see Pike less as a Cleric and more like a Paladin is in how her powers are getting stopped/bottlenecked by her lack of belief/faith in herself. Clerics generally have to believe in and pray to their Deity, and their Deity will help them within reason- Paladins have an Oath they swear to and when they begin to waver their belief in their Oath they start to lose power. Pike has been struggling with upholding a belief in both The Everlight and most importantly herself, a big part of her current story is that her power comes from her not some Deity or fancy armor, her and conviction to fight. That feels much closer to a Paladin than anything else- down to the fact that she's even healing people with her own blood. Scanlan's a Bard for sure! Bards are all about knowledge/lore gathering so Scanlan learning magic vicariously after using a Scroll or by seeing someone like Delilah cast Silence works fine to fit that image. Bards have to practice and learn their magic, unlike how a Wizard has to understand the complex functions of each part of a spell a Bard can do it via tapping into the Words of Creation or in Scanlans case- sing/perform it through his heart and soul! Though yeah its strange that Scanlan Shorthalt the Legendary Bard of Vox Machina, wielder of the Bardic Artifact Mythcarver, doesn't inspire his friends in the show. Maybe they felt it would be too hard to visualize in the show? They could have it so Scanlan's inspirations look like electricity flowing through a person making them stronger or faster or more reslient, or something like that. However you think the Bless spell would look in animation is kinda how I think Bardic Inspiration would look here.

[@Just.Westin]

@@Finalplayer14 this (and many other comments here) are a great show of teaching others via your perspective and thoughts. I made this video cause I think it's funny that some characters could be seen as a class that wasn't theirs in the live streams, and then you (and others) give their view of how they perceived different aspects in different ways. I like your depiction of Pike and Kashaws divine weapons, but you still gave your way of viewing Pike as being more similar to paladins compared to Kashaws. I agree with the primeval awareness that Vex has. I know she has it but I purposefully left that out to fit my narrative. Thank you for your ideas / perception

[@properheresy8880]

Always remember there original classes were from pathfinder 1e

[@Just.Westin]

@@properheresy8880 true

[@ecchicharmed]

Looking at Episode 1 of Season 1, Vex seems to make her arrows glow before firing them during Vox Machina's first encounter with the lightning dragon. Unless she already had a magic item by that point, that seems like magic to it.

[@Just.Westin]

@@ecchicharmed I went back and checked. Correct. It seems like she does. Weird. In all other cases I remember her buying magic arrows or being Fenthras. Good find

[@chrismeandyou]

That's funny since a few minutes ago I was watching the new episode at the gun pirates and thought "It sure would be nice if she used Ranger spells for a change" She even was snuck up on by two dumb pirates on a wooden pier. She is no Fighter/Rogue/Druid = Ranger

[@Just.Westin]

@@chrismeandyou exactly

[@ServantofBaal]

I'd say Percival is actually a duel class of gunslinger and warlock, then reclassed to gunslinger and artificer; (spoilers) he literally made an unwitting pact with a patron in order to make the pepperbox operable, because he failed to make it work so many times (because he wasn't an artificer) and the patron was the one who made it work properly. Then after they had the fight against the patron, he successfully created a new one (albeit not as good) because he 'leveled up' and reclassed into artificer

[@Just.Westin]

@@ServantofBaal very interesting. You make a fun case. I wonder what warlock powers he would have used. Maybe Hex whenever he saw a person on his List?

[@ServantofBaal]

@@Just.Westin It’s been a while since I watched it but I remember it mostly made him much harder to kill when possessed

[@ServantofBaal]

@@Just.Westin He became something like a revenant; able to just keep getting up after being put down

[@Just.Westin]

@@ServantofBaal certainly. That was his powers when possessed by Orthax. I was brainstorming abilities when Percy was (mostly) Percy.

[@ServantofBaal]

@@Just.Westin Ah. Well, I remember the bullets all had the names on them, so some argument for hex or something sounds plausible

[@sublimefanaticsf8616]

No mention of the idea about Percy multiclassing into warlock? Even to dismiss it? His lore fit into that, the mask could be the spellcasting focus and that black fog his own magic other than only the demons magic.

[@Just.Westin]

@@sublimefanaticsf8616 true

[@dragishawk9564]

Percy ended up taking Magic Initiate to reflect his more demonic abilities as a result of his deal with Orthax.

[@faranior]

He didn't multiclass. He took Magic Intiate (Warlock).

[@ThePrincessCH]

Adaptations aren't meant to be the same as the original. Have you compared the "How To Train Your Dragon" books to the movies?

[@Just.Westin]

@@ThePrincessCH nope. And I'm not complaining about the adaption. I'm just figuring out what DND classes Vox Machina would be.

[@SacredBloodful]

Wait! You just say Trinket is a bear? Nothing else? Maybe Trinket is a druid, who forgot how to transform back to his original form.

[@Just.Westin]

@@SacredBloodful TRINKET TOTALLY COULD BE A PERMASHAPED DRUID!

[@SacredBloodful]

@@Just.Westin Or another Idea; A Fighter, transformed by some evil mage

[@davidbodor1762]

5:55 - When he throws Grog in season one he sings a whole ditty first about how he's giving a hand. Usually when he just uses Scanlan's Hand he just says "Scanlan's hand", so you could interpret the extra lines as being the inspiration, which makes sense because then Grog proceeds to cut a giant in two.

[@Just.Westin]

@@davidbodor1762 true. It's possible to perceive general lines in battle as bardic inspiration. I didn't think of it like that and assumed it had to be more unique. I'll have to keep an eye out next time I watch the earlier seasons

[@fredericgagnon8205]

Scanlan is a multiclass bard rogue arcane trickster. The giant magical hand makes me think of it.

[@Just.Westin]

Haha. Nice

[@thomazeblen]

thats just bigbys hand he get trhough magical seecrets at level 10

[@SomeGuyFromAustria]

I think they're actually not D&D classes in the show at all, but classes from Critical Role's own RPG Daggerheart. Pike's abilities in the show for example remind me of what I've read of the Seraph class from Daggerheart.

[@Just.Westin]

@@SomeGuyFromAustria very good find. I knew they purposefully don't mention DND abilities or stuff, but I never considered they might be mimicking daggerheart. Nice!

[@HyperPotato0888]

wasnt percy technically a warlock in season 1 becouse he had a patron demon ?

[@Just.Westin]

@@HyperPotato0888 good idea. No idea if he had powers from it or if he was just possessed. Something's up either way

[@HyperPotato0888]

@@Just.Westin He technically did get powers from it becouse he managed to think about the schematics for his gun and make the first working prototype after "making a deal" with it

[@Just.Westin]

@@HyperPotato0888 yes that was there "arrangement" But I mean an ability from the Warlock DND. I wouldn't consider his guns to be Eldritch blasts or anything. Would you?

[@HyperPotato0888]

@@Just.Westin not really but maybe they got hexed when their name was written on his gun ? I know a pretty far fetched but i think a cool concept also A+ video a very enjoyable watch

[@Gathaeryx]

He hadn't multiclassed into Warlock, but he had the Magic Initiate Feat which gave him his Hex spell

[@derekboman2010]

Do you know whats fun. If you are using your pbone to type a comment and the next video autoplays, you comment posts to the next video. Crazy stuff. Could be inconvenient for some people. 🎉

[@Just.Westin]

@@derekboman2010 okay. 2 solutions. First is you could pause the video or stop auto play after it's done. But that's super inconvenient So I would instead comment halfway through the video once you know how it'll end. I'm sure that won't ever be annoying?

[@RpgLore]

they've already mentioned (since the release of season 1) that the decision was made so people that's not familiar with the game would get a better idea of what's the role of each character. Scanlan won't be using much healing, because that's Pike's job. Vex would not be doing ranger's spells because the aesthetic or vibe is more like Keyleth's nature type of spells. otherwise people could consider that they all can do whatever the other character can do...which in a way is almost true in a D&D game but it will make writing harder as you no longer have to rely only in one character to do something specific (like the portal thing)

[@Just.Westin]

@@RpgLore thanks for explaining that. I think that gives me more reason to figure out exactly what class they would be after being changed.

[@callmev3531]

Mechanically speaking, perhaps these characters don't always fit into their class archetypes, though in regards to this being an animated series specifically inspired by the campaign's story and not the game of Dungeons & Dragons as a whole, characters like Vex could be considered a Ranger specifically in regards to her survival skills, not her possessing them in addition to nature magic, within the context of this continuity, just Kima's profession is that of a Paladin, Scanlan's profession is that of a Bard (come to think of it, I'd imagine to normal people living in this setting, characters like Scanlan would probably be considered simply mages or be mistaken for Sorcerers or Wizards unless they specifically knew how spell casters and magical practitioners worked or about other esoteric phenomena outside of magic like qi, psionics and divinity) and Grog would be considered by most people in civilized areas a Barbarian...because he is one. In general, in some areas, these characters have been limited or simplified in terms of their capabilities (such as Scanlan requiring items to Blink and an incantation he learned from a scroll to Polymorph, while otherwise seeming mostly capable of illusions and his energy appendage constructs inspired by Bigby's Hand) or, alternatively, certain attributes were heightened to be more prominent than others (Pike's shield and morningstar are now just energy constructs she can create, the latter two apparently being inspired by Shield Of Faith and Spiritual Weapon, while she can either create or summon armor from her amulet similar to what she had in astral form, suggesting it's also an energy construct able to fully resemble actual materials).

[@Just.Westin]

@@callmev3531 I do know that many changes were made because it's a show. The video is taking it too seriously as if it has to translate 1 to 1 with something. I did like your explanation for Pikes weapons and armor. Good thinking

[@callmev3531]

@@Just.Westin , Thank you. It wasn't my intention to suggest this video took the series too seriously, just presenting observations regarding how the show adapts the power system of the game. Took me a while actually to really notice the armor Pike manifests in Season 2 is the same exact one she has in her astral form and question where it really came from, same with realizing her energy weapons (and by extension, other Clerics in the show like Kashaw) are inspired both by those spells and by her in-game combat equipment, simplified into being constructs she can make. It's one of my favorite details of this show how they adapted these characters abilities and the power system of the game into a show format.

[@22nicodemis]

high on mushrooms and came across this guy.. nuff said

[@Just.Westin]

Sick

[@kronotoop]

I feel like Trinket not participating in battles is totally on par with the live stream as Laura is super protective of him and either doesn't take Trinket into battle or forgets to use him :D

[@Just.Westin]

@@kronotoop fair enough. I know he isn't used in all fights in the campaign, but it's such a small percentage in the show. I want to see trinket!

[@chinoborrego4828]

They all are their og classes, with some liberties taken since it's not a 1 to 1 table to show, cuz copyright and adapting to medium

[@Just.Westin]

My video is looking at the characters in the show and determining what class they would be without using the tabletop game as reference. Missed the point of the video but good comment

[@jonnyso1]

Vex is ranger because her favored enemy are dragons and that is proeminent in the series.

[@Just.Westin]

Ahhh yes. The dragon sense

[@SomeoneTookMyOldName]

Isn’t pikes shield just the “shield of faith” spell?

[@Just.Westin]

@@SomeoneTookMyOldName sure. To me that only protects one person? But things change in translation from game to show

[@callmev3531]

@@SomeoneTookMyOldName , It certainly seems inspired by by that spell, just in a more simplified, visually beefed up form fit for an action-packed fantasy, like how her energy mace is just her Spiritual Weapon.

[@usermammal]

Yeah you know Ashley probably would have been a lot happier playing a paladin from the start instead of a cleric.

[@Just.Westin]

@@usermammal maybe. War cleric is still dope

[@usermammal]

@@Just.Westin no slight on any cleric

[@RedRolen]

Didn’t Vex cast hunter’s mark, conjure barrage and lightning arrow?

[@Just.Westin]

@@RedRolen I feel like those are from her vestige, Fenthras. Not from her. I don't remember what the hunters Mark would be. When did she do that?

[@RedRolen]

@@Just.Westin I don’t remember the exact episode but when the undead dogs had Scanlan she spent some extra time before shooting. (I know it could just be her aiming, but it could also be that she was choosing a target for the spell)

[@benceszabo3333]

Paladins can know the spell Revivify..

[@Just.Westin]

@@benceszabo3333 correct. But they wouldn't get the spell as early in their levels. So Pike may not have any experience with revivify where Kashaw does.

[@ryanpratt6993]

The Bear class is the most op class ever brought out

[@Just.Westin]

@@ryanpratt6993 true

[@Mesteryman1]

Uh dude, Revivify is on the paladin spell list and pike could be a war cleric. Scanlan is a bard they just don't say "bardic inspiration" because it done thematically, and he was a lore bard that could use his inspiration on himself. Vax actually has levels of paladin due to his devotion to the Raven Queen. You make arguments based off of the smallest and most intangible things in this video. Is grog not a barbarian because he doesn't frenzy? no he's still a berserker barbarian that chooses not to use a skill because of the detriment. There were thematic reasons for Vex not to help with the door, she was trust Keyleth to handle it so she could focus on the dragon. You know, her FAVORED ENEMY. Kash canonically was the one to use revivify on Vex in the tomb. Vex always relied more on magic items and martial ability with a bow than on her magic, and Keyleth is a nervous wreck the entire time that has an arc to overcome it. Not every character is going to conform to the classic "norms" of a class. That's the entire gimmick of the group. Edited because there was more to rant about.

[@Just.Westin]

@@Mesteryman1 absolutely. I'm saying Pike didn't know revivify yet because she had less spell slots and lower level spells compared to Kashaw. You are giving a little more detail that helps my explanation for why Pike could be a paladin.

[@Mesteryman1]

@@Just.Westin or she just didn't take the spell, there was a subtle narrative that using resurrection was not standard. Again, not every character plays to the "norms" of the meta.

[@Multistrangedude1]

bro, its not 1 to 1 because they don't have the rights to rip off everything, and pike is a WAR cleric so it would make sense that she doesn't take certain spells

[@Just.Westin]

@@Multistrangedude1 bro, I am making a video where I try to figure out what the characters classes would be in dungeons and dragons as if it was 1 to 1. I am fully aware that there are many changes for many many different reasons. And I'm aware that the show is not based on dungeons and dragons 5th edition for legal reasons

[@jdtru1808]

OMG next your going to tell me movies don't follow the book perfectly.

[@Just.Westin]

@@jdtru1808 omg, this entire video was just a funny bit where I take it too seriously! (No sarcasm. I hope nobody thinks I'm complaining about the show)

[@sheanstanks]

The bad editing is the charm and im loving it

[@Just.Westin]

@@sheanstanks what? Bad editing? Thanks

[@sheanstanks]

@@Just.Westin it's not actually bad, I mean my videos aren't any better and I'm just saying it isnt high end. Not trying to be mean hahah sorry

[@Just.Westin]

@@sheanstanks I understood completely. I saw it as a compliment. Having charm is a nice quality.

[@LeeCarlson]

It appears to me that you do not have much breadth in your comprehension of D&D.

[@Just.Westin]

@@LeeCarlson I disagree. I like DND and play it a lot. This video is satirical. I hope you enjoyed it

[@LeeCarlson]

@@Just.Westin, pardon me, I did not see the satire. Chalk it up to me being an old man.

[@Just.Westin]

@@LeeCarlson no worries. It's just for fun.

[@drewishgaminginc.3942]

You know people can play rangers without using spells right? Just enjoy the show Jesus Christ

[@Just.Westin]

@@drewishgaminginc.3942 I did enjoy the show. This is a silly video. I hope you don't view it as harsh criticism.

[@Mark-ke1rj]

This is so absurd.

[@Just.Westin]

@@Mark-ke1rj thank you