What are "The Victim Olympics?"

This is an inversion of the heirarchy of dominance. This is a natural pattern, to turn the tables and re-enact the patterns one has been subjected to. Maybe that's part of the healing process, but it could be part of a trap.
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[@deskryptic]

Peoples. I think this is an important conversation and I think Charles is brave for speaking to it. And I am going to say it. As a white guy. A Harvard educated white guy who is kind of a drop out from the one percent. he's brave to say what he said. And... I have spent a good part of my life trying to avoid conversations about race, gender, class. The whole anti-oppression game. Then the work that the universe handed me was to teach that very stuff. Mostly to white people (USA- I realize this conversation and the power dynamics that it points to look different (and share commonalites) in other parts of the world). Here's where I am at. You can't skip it. Not at this point in history. Not at this point in our evolution. In my heart I know a more beautiful world is possible. I've followed Charles's work and I (like most of you probably) have had the kinds of experiences that lead me to believe...almost know that there are other ways of existing- almost an alternative physics. Its real... And an early sense that I had is that the anti-oppression framework and much of the political left- coming as it does to some a Marxists perspective, is materialist in the most profoundly atheist/totalizing way. It has shut itself off from a capacity to transcend and has become trapped. But I can also testify that most of what the anti-oppression work identifies is real (that is to say enacted). You can see it everywhere. We fall into patterned behavior based on social identities. One pattern I have seen among many white males (some of my best friends as an old joke goes) is whenever this discourse comes up, there is a tendency to deny it has reality, raise up the primacy of the individual (which if handled poorly plays into the story of separation), or for the more spiritual types to -speak of unity. To spiritually bypass it. If we really want to get to and embody that beautiful world, we have a vortex of suffering- and really the bearing witness to and hearing out of suffering, to go through. We ( the marginals) need to be heard by you (the dominants). Who's is who is of course contextual and multi-faceted. But we need to be listened to. We need y'all (us) to bear witness. And we'll do it for you too. We can't skip this. The backlash against wokeness is partly based on the imbalance in that discourse. But the backlash is partly what it has always been. The desire to shut the marginals up. Can you...beautiful hearts? You seers of tomorrow.... You "don't tell me the problem, tell me the solution heads" have compassion for us? Can you have compassion for the fact that we are tried of explaining this shit to you. And that...deep down maybe we do want revenge. Wouldn't you? Don't you already for having to suffer merely being called out in classes, or office spaces, or by comedians (cause that's really the on actual social spaces where this discourse rules)? I see it. You know... the Jordan Peterson heads (I love some of these folks). But we aren't going to skip it at this point in history. No. We gotta go way down in and through it. Swing low. Sorrow with each other. Witness the suffering of the high, low and middle. Of the he she, they them theirs. Of POC, white and hybrid identity. Hell... of the extraterrestrials and starseeds and whatnot. Only in this flood of sorrow, will we be watered with the joy and freshness to access the spaces of miracles and redesign our economic relations to that they reflect an aspiration for human and creatruely oneness. On the small scale...the tiny scale. I've seen it done. Let's listen...

[@toddl1]

“Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...I get on my knees and pray, we don’t get fooled again...” The Who

[@midorithursday]

The race/gender/sexual orientation model of privilege and victimhood always seemed profoundly reductionistic to me. It takes a number of obvious, innate characterics and treats them as a reasonable substitute for specific knowledge about a person's life history, character, location, social connections, economic class, and a near infinite variety of other factors that have, arguably, a much greater impact on a person's experience and opportunities than their race, gender, or sexual orientation. Isn't putting people into boxes based on easy-to-see traits the same kind of thinking that made racism, sexism, and homophobia as much of an issue as they are to begin with?

[@deskryptic]

so should we just avoid it? That hasn't helped either.

[@leroyrodgers6089]

@deskryptic No, we accept and move forward. As a black person, I'm rather tired of other black people playing this victim card as an excuse for the lack of success in their lives. We are so far removed from all of that. And to assume that all white people are inherently evil is idiotic when literally the minority of whites had slaves. Black and white hasn't mattered for decades. The real division is between the elites and working-class people. Black elites get treated just like white elites. And their children get the same benefits. To argue the opposite is to ignore reality. We cannot put people into a box, all it does is promulgate more racism. At this point, it's possible we have not only course corrected. In some instances, we have gone overboard. Affirmative action is nice, but when it is coupled with a victim mentality, black people think that they should get jobs over people who might be more qualified. That is terrible for our society. Imagine being hired only because you are black. Meanwhile, there's a struggling white person who came from a poor family just the same who is more educated and more qualified. Great plan.

[@selenasparks207]

Their have been a selected few, in comparison to the totality of human existence, that have stepped forward as Speakers to bring people messages of universal truths that they’ve forgotten. Emerson was one, Thoreau was inspired by Emerson-and your messages make me inclined to believe that you are a Speaker also. Thank you for your words!

[@vigofox]

Long story short: The smallest minority is the individual. Self responsibility means an end to group-think, are we ready?

[@michaelyaziji]

Good stuff. :)

[@eleoptera]

I see a big problem in categorizing people with some random part of their superficial identity and associating that with privileges, obligations and guilt. This is not social progress, this is fashism. But we need to do everything we can to give everyone the opportunity to take the same part in the dialogue and that everyone is granted with the same opportunities and political power.

[@AdamShapiro1]

"Everyone wants to be celebrated for their gifts..." May we move past retribution or otherwise and start celebrating each other instead!

[@phiwem6766]

I am thinking about a trans woman (for example) being bludgeoned to death and in the midst of that horrific experience attempting to "invite" the perpetrator to a non-violent state because of this "innate knowing" that the person committing the violence does not really want to be acting from that place. In essence, "willing a person" into an elevated state of consciousness despite the evidence of that person's deeds. Why does the inverse not apply? Why do we not encourage violent/oppressive people to reflect on the fact that no person wants to be violated. We continue to offer prescriptions on how people experiencing violence should respond without directing our attention/offering prescriptions to people who violate. Perhaps, as you indicated in your video, it would be worthwhile to reflect on this a little more.

[@stevethwaites3497]

I think it's all about respect for people in all walks of life, but the so called oppressed people are never going to get that respect and recognition because they are black, trans, non binary or gay, by calling people who are non of these, racist homophobic, privileged and so on. Pulling statues down and trying to change history will not work either, people are individuals and have their own opinions. Education is the key to teach the next generation to respect "all" regardless of colour, gender, and most of all difference of opinion.

[@ExistBetter]

I've used this term as something that happens in families haha so awesome

[@fuatkurb3680]

I am from Uzbekistan, but I jus look white. I never encountered racism before I came to US. And when I was in Baltimore I been attacked by a group of black teenagers yelling at me some racially charged offensive words. I was so bewildered and shocked, but then I thought it is Ironic that formerly opressed ppl acting like aggressors now... That when I began to appreciate how much karma is being carried in this society. From the distant past of historical genocide of the Indian natives. ...

[@deskryptic]

hmmm...

[@sirupsee4698]

Okay, but what if, when you engage with a "perpetrator" who might be harming you and you want them to stop.... well, it is impossible to not be self interested in that situation, right? But if you're self interested, how is it an actually free meeting of the minds? How are you not manipulating them, and how can they not know that you're actually manipulating them? (Even if it would be fully justified in manipulation. Wanting desperately to change a certain interaction is the opposite of coming freely together in sharing of hearts or something.) There are situations that are so obviously shitty it's impossible to have an airy space about them. And if your "perpetrator" is intelligent, they actually understand the situation just as well as you do. Anything of the sort would take on an air of ridiculousness and falseness. (I like Charles stuff a lot, a lot. But Charles, could you imagine trying to tell that to your bullies?)

[@somewhatded3248]

Removing yourself from harms way is usually first priority, unless it is a planned civil disobedience or something. Seem like oppression is a pyramid with aggressive behavior being at the top while cultural biases make up the base.

[@midorithursday]

I agree. This is one of the difficulties I have with Charles' approach. How do you interact with someone in a genuine, non-manipulative way so long as you're in a position of powerlessness relative to them? They know it, you know it, so everything you say can easily be interpreted as "Oh this person doesn't honestly believe in peace, equality, or whatever, they just want to catch me off guard so THEY can be in the powerful position."

[@sirupsee4698]

@@midorithursday You might be manipulating them even just so you get them to stop doing whatever they're doing. And they might know that. I'm saying this, because I hear Charles ideas as meaning: "You should genuinely not be trying to manipulate them." But in certain shitty situations this becomes almost a moot point.

[@flowergardener281]

Charles Eisenstein, you will never understand what BIPOC live thought every day.

[@filmsforaction]

An interesting note to end the video on...

[@brookestabler3477]

Everyone wants to honor indigenous culture, no one actually wants to live their lives in the way the indigenous used to, sustainably.

[@zdillz]

This was kind of weird. If you are going to make what would be considered, in most progressive circles, a reasonably provocative suggestion, then I suggest it's a bit of a cop-out to end by saying oh but I haven't "engaged in it in a lot of depth". There is enough people on the internet saying what they think on these matters without having "engaged in a lot of depth" I'm afraid.... That being said, I see where you're coming from with this, I just think your idea would benefit a lot from the nourishment of some other ideas on the matter - e.g. post-colonial or gender theory stuff.

[@OneTribe.Community]

Except that post-modernism, intersectionality/Oppression Olympics, and any Woke Ideology (and it IS an ideology, attempting to fill the void of a genuine spiritual yearning) does nothing to move the narrative forward, in fact it only creates further division amongst people. It's a kind of theoretical OCD... constantly coming up with new concepts built on top of a faulty foundation, which actually accomplish nothing of value to the society at large. It's had its day, has been on the retreat now that people are becoming more educated as to what it really is, and is now on a very sharp decline since we are ALL plunged into a very real-world catastrophe... leaving any non-substantive issues in the dust. There were a few valid points contained within post-modernist thinking which have been absorbed, but the movement you're referring to is pretty much evaporating. We are ALL going to face difficult times ahead, which will bring many people together and help us all to realize what's truly important; that underneath our physical bodies we're all the same.

[@ransbarger]

@@OneTribe.Community Good one Max.

[@sirupsee4698]

@@OneTribe.Community Easy for you to say, if you happen to be a white, able bodied etc male

[@OneTribe.Community]

​@@sirupsee4698 Ugh, what does that even mean? First, I love how you assumed my gender and my ethnicity 🤦🏾‍♂️ Second, so now you're making sweeping generalizations & assumptions based on a persons race and gender?? That's actually the definition of racism & sexism... you do know that, right? Now based on your superficial and overly-simplistic comment, you would look at a White Male who is "able-bodied" and automatically assume that he has it waaaaaay better than an Asian Woman. Well what if the White Male has an IQ of 80? What if he has a mental illness and is depressed on top of all that? What if he was physically and sexually abused as a child? And grew up poor, malnourished, and alone because his step-mother was never around? Now what if the Asian Woman was born into a loving and wealthy family who showed her the value of discipline, hard-work and perseverance, and because she was born with an IQ of 140 they encouraged her to pursue a challenging and high-paying career. Humans are complex and multi-dimensional, we all have our unique qualities and our individual challenges. IF we want a better future, we have to drop nonsensical ideologies like the one you just picked up because (perhaps?) your peers are doing it too. I hope you drop it, and realize that the way forward is to realize all humans want the same thing; a shared reality where everyone is healthy and provided for, the environment is brought back into balance, and we all pursue the best life has to offer. Now... what were you saying about White Male Privilege?? Go on, we're all listening.

[@zdillz]

@@OneTribe.Community I'm not going to start an argument about the value of lack thereof postmodern thinking in the KZbin comment section. What I will say is, rather than having had its day, it seems to be on the rise. The ripples of critical theory (postmodern and intersectionality) are somewhat responsible for the so called 'culture war' we see today. The push back against these ideas is evidence itself that it has started to seep into mainstream discourse (albeit in various different expressions)

[@andreanasca5522]

Hi folx, here Roger Hallam of XR UK, interviews Ian Haney Lopez: centering racial justice, changing the race class narrative in order to win each and every struggle to change the status quo. Hallam & others have argued against this in the past, BUT NOW he has come around to understanding it, excited by it, supportive of it & wanting to know how to center it in XR strategy. This is what we need at this pivotal moment, folx, not stoking fear of “inverted hierarchy!” MANY groups are starting to incorporate this strategy: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJvRhWiXhZh7fMk